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26:17Mark Ogden:I think they were a bit weak, to be honest. I think you'd expect him to be stronger than that. I think he was, you know, I'm not saying making excuses, but just not really giving you the vibe of a Man United manager, a big-time manager that wants to make his team better. I think, let's forget about Alex Ferguson, that's so far in the past now, but if that was a Pep Guardiola or a Jurgen Klopp or a Mikel Arteta, they wouldn't be talking like that. It was quite defeatist. Now, yes, they lost, so he would be defeatist, but when you lose, you have to find a way to motivate your players, your staff, your fans to say it's going to be better.

26:48Mark Ogden:And he should be tearing the dressing room apart, really, because they've let go a two-goal lead at home for the first time in 50 years. So it's a bit too calm. You don't need calm in that scenario. Sometimes you have to let rip. Again, going back, like Ali was saying, about things that they haven't been able to do consistently. After the game at the weekend, a bit too calm after the game, didn't really make much of a meal of the situation with the goal that shouldn't have been against Man City. There's not enough noise, there's not enough passion, there's not enough anger there. I think sometimes when you're a manager at a club that's not winning, you have to show a bit of that.

27:17Mark Ogden:You have to show that you mean business. And that, for me, that was very defeatist, I thought, that not really any passion there. Frank, do you agree? Do you want to see more fire from the manager if you're the player and you're obviously in these situations? Yes, yes. Well, I guess he had another speech in the dressing room, awfully. Awfully, because I would be, Michael Curry, I would be fuming against the players. What are you doing? What are you doing? I don't recognise you. I came. It's not only because of me that we went better last season. It's because you realized that you had to move, because you had to do something, because you cannot have an excuse every time.

27:59That's the coach's mistake. That has to be yours as well. But today, on the goal that Brighton scored before the halftime, yes, the two centerbacks are guilty, but the goalkeeper. I know Darlo is his first game, but what is he doing? If you have a Courtois, you have Emiliano Martinez, or you have a Raya, the guy gets the ball with his chest, with their chest. They know what to do. They were there. They would be already there. Dalo didn't move. That was insane. I said, what is the goalkeeper doing? What is waiting? It's detailed like that when people, they are wondering. It's the first game for Dalo.

28:35So maybe that's why it was a little bit shaky. But when you know what you have to do, when your coach puts you in a situation, when you have confidence into your game and onto your teammates, you don't concede goals like that. So they have to work on knowing each other better, which I thought it was already done, but that's what they have to work on because it's like they are total strangers to each other. You know what annoys me about the Michael Carrick statements following the match is this whole, he made it sound as if like, you know, things are just kind of going against us right now. It's just little things that kind of become bigger things.

29:16and he starts talking about the Everton late goal. Well, you gave up a late goal. You gave up a late goal. It didn't just happen. You gave up a late goal. And then he starts talking about, you know, on the goal, the situation against Manchester City. You were up a man. Aren't we ignoring a very basic fact from this game that you were up a man 75 minutes? Are we choosing to just ignore that? Because that's also part of the story. We can focus on the game. You can focus on VAR if you so desire. But if you're a manager, you have to focus on the things that your team could have and should have done better.

29:54And so just to say that it's just things are kind of against us and building it. It feels like that's a loser's approach. It's like, you know, it's just momentum is not with us. When did you create momentum? You start it up. You manufacture it. And you had momentum early on in this match, winning 2-0. So what is it that went against you today? You were winning 2-0. So what is it that didn't quite build your way? Ten minutes in, you're up 2-0. And the best that you can come up with is just, you know, little things are becoming bigger. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're becoming a whole lot bigger, and they will be bigger if you don't start winning matches.

30:37And now you're just going to sit on this for a while thinking about, man, if we don't win this weekend, Michael Carrick might as well just get his bags and continue to walk out that way. All right. Out the door and see you later. Because he, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, and see you all later. I'm not coming back. Because there's no way that he survives the FIFA break. No chance. I'm sorry, Ali. I know the studio. I think the door is on the right side. Yeah, it is on the right side. First of all, the door is in front of me, but you couldn't actually be dramatic enough to walk that way. He's trying to make a dramatic exit stage left, Frank.

31:24You know what, Frank? I'm trying to sell here. We're trying to sell. He's so passionate. You should know better. You are an artist yourself. You should know better. Well, Augie, Alan brings up a really interesting point because, of course, now a lot of eyes on Michael Carrick and Manchester United for their upcoming game. How much of a must-win is it now, or do you feel like there's already pressure on Michael Carrick?

31:50Mark Ogden:Well, it's a must-win. I mean, they can't go into the international break having not won at the weekend. It's Fulham away, so, you know, Fulham haven't won a game this season. They drew at Anfield at the weekend, but the games they've got coming up, Fulham away, Then you've got Tottenham at home, tough game, big game. Then you go to Atletico Madrid, then you go to Leeds. So it's hard to see at the minute a win on the horizon for Man Utd. So I don't think Michael Carrick's job is on the line right now. Maybe it should be. Maybe it should be. I mean, the results in recent weeks and months, end of last season, they were a bit patchy as well.

32:21Mark Ogden:But Man Utd generally, under the Glaciers and even under Ineos, they haven't smelt the danger as a club quick enough. So they've let the manager linger on too long. Amrind went on too long. Ten Hag went on too long. Michael Carrick may go on too long. So I do think that he's under pressure. He has to win games. But I do think because he's a fan's favourite and that still buys him some time, he's a cheap option. They don't want to sack him because it will cost them money. And Man United right now is a club that only cares about the bottom line. They don't care about winning things. They care about the finances.

32:51Mark Ogden:But at some point it's going to get to a situation where it can't continue. So Michael Carrick has to win games. and you're looking around the potential candidates out there. Well, Eddie Howe's out of work right now. Kieran McKenna's out of work now. Are these guys Man United quality managers? Maybe, maybe not, but they're available. You know, Fabian Hurts tonight has made a good example again. So, you know, he's under pressure, but I don't think he's under imminent pressure. That's probably the best way to put it. Frank? If I may, you know, we had the same question about whether he should stay at the end of the season, last season because he was doing something, but it wasn't his job.

33:31We were waiting for somebody else. And I always ask the same question. Who else? Who else? Because we know that before Kerry came, it was impossible to solve the problem. Coaches were coming and going, and that wasn't the solution. So, yeah, you get Kerry away, bye-bye, you know, get the door on the left, and what do you do after? What do you do? Because who do you get? because it seems to be for me, again, the players, you are 2-0 up against Brighton at home. So even the coach is bad. You cannot lose 3-2 at the end of the game against Brighton with all due respect when you are Manchester United.

34:12So you're not good enough. The players are not good enough to wear that shirt. That's what we said and we kept on saying. So they had six months break because Kerry came and they changed their attitude. but otherwise we still have the same issue and we still have the same questions.

34:31Mark Ogden:I think the problem as well, guys, is that you talk about the players aren't good enough, the manager might not be good enough. Equally, the people above them aren't good enough. The owners aren't good enough. The CEO, is he good enough? Is the director of football good enough? You know, Jason Wilcox hasn't got the pedigree of a Chicky Baguri stand who used to work at Man City or the people that work at Chelsea or who also work at Man City. Man United right now is staffed by people who aren't good enough. so if Michael Carrick goes a new coach is going to come in, he's going to work with that squad of players that have got a lot of players that have been lingering there forever they can't get rid of players, they can't sign players you mentioned Carl Darlow before, his mistakes tonight Carl Darlow is a guy that has been a jobbing goalkeeper around the Premier League for quite a long time he's not good enough Arsenal's number 2 is Kepa Liverpool's number 2 is George Mamadashvili Man City have always had a proper number 2 Man United have done it on the cheap again so they go out and just buy the cheapest goalkeeper an option he can get as a backup.

35:23Mark Ogden:It was Bayern de Ayr prior to that,£2 million from Turkey. So whoever comes in as a coach, he's not going to be given the tools to succeed because the people above him are as inadequate as the players that he's working with. It seems like a fun time to be a Manchester United fan. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. The wind has just been sucked out of me. But you know what? After looking at the Carabao Cup draw for the fourth round, I may be thanking my lucky star because look at that. Brighton now move on to either face Norwich City or Manchester City. Could have been another Manchester derby in the fourth round.

35:58Liverpool against Chelsea. I bet Frank will be loving that one. Fleetwood Town will be going up against Arsenal. And then Bournemouth get Aston Villa. What about Bradford City against Peterborough? No? We're not paying attention to that? Okay. Probably not. Probably not. Okay. Evan Cohen here. Game day brings the excitement. Your stay should feel just as memorable. With Marriott Bonvoy, official hotel partner of the NCAA and U.S. soccer, you're connected to a portfolio of brands designed for how you travel. Some offer complimentary breakfast. Others give you room to spread out, space to stay productive, or extended stay comforts.

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37:47All right, well, let's talk about some headlines because pro ref chief Howard Webb has been in them recently as he's had to answer for what led to Manchester City's Derby winning goal being allowed to stand at the weekend. Now, he has said that, of course, there was a little bit of tunnel vision, wasn't it, Ale? Yeah, there was a little bit of tunnel vision going on. Well, Enzo Mareska, head of the League Cup game against Norwich, was asked about the whole debacle and fallout since the Derby. I acknowledge that there was a mistake. And that's all. I think sometimes it goes for you, sometimes it goes against you.

38:29Three years ago when I was here, it happened exactly the same against Man United. We lost the derby there. the goal was not a regular goal if you remember and to be honest no one apologized we are still waiting for the apologize for that goal so sometimes it happens for you sometimes against you it's football Alright Enzo Maresca there weighing in that listen what goes around comes around sometimes I know that because Shaka Hissop sent me the video of that goal and said, well, justice, right? Augie, what do you make of what Enzo Mareska had to say?

39:13Mark Ogden:Well, it's the easy thing to say when you win the game, isn't it? You can be very relaxed about it and not have to worry about it. And, you know, he's right. You know, the Marcus Rashford incident when Bruno Fernandes scored, it was another howler, wasn't it? I think that VAR at the time admitted that it was the wrong call. But, you know, you can only deal with the call that we've had right now. And Man City won the game through an error. but it happens, it shouldn't have happened it happens but if you win the game you don't really care do you? We'll wait and see, we should keep that tape on record Alexis because if Man City have a similar situation against them this season, Enzo Moresco might not be quite so relaxed about it Frank?

39:48Yeah, I would like to warn people about VAR because I heard Craig saying, I don't know if it was yesterday or the day before saying that maybe VAR wasn't a good thing I think it's a good thing. I played without the VAR. And how many times, you know, I thought a guy was offside and on the other way, or maybe I scored, but then I was offside. So VAR is a good thing. It's a good way of improving the system. Now we need to adjust. We have to know how to call it. And that was clear for us, you know, obviously. and to have, as Craig said, competent people to judge and very quickly. So I agree with Mariska.

40:35You know, people shouldn't complain about that because it goes for you, like it goes away sometimes. So it's not something you should think that there is an injustice because overall in a season you have the four and the against in every situation. So I agree with him. I agree with Ogi. It's easier to talk when it goes with you. Howard Webb right now is a full-on what he calls transparency tour, but it's more damage control, damage control tour. It's what's happening right now. But what I would say to Howard Webb and his explanation of that, the VAR officials went into tunnel vision. Even if you take tunnel vision, even if you go like this, tunnel vision, you still would see that Enzo Fernandez participated in the play.

41:27And that indeed in participating in the play, he was outside and the goal should not have stood. This is an egregious, egregious mistake. Flagrant mistake. It's a fireball offense. because frankly, if a referee and the group of officials that were in that room, because it's not just the VAR officials, it's all the people that aren't in that room, look at this play and do not see the impact on the play that Enzo Fernandez has, they're not, we're talking about Manchester United not having good enough players, they're not good enough to be in this position because they do not know the loss of the game and that is the bare minimum, the bare minimum that you need to have for referees.

42:07And while I agree with Frank, VAR usually, VAR more times than not is going to get the calls, right? You have to get rid of the people that make these mistakes because these mistakes are unacceptable. They would be unacceptable for players. They're unacceptable for referees as well. If you're not good enough as a player to be part of the national team, guess what? You're not in the national team. If you're not good enough to be part of Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City, I wasn't good enough to do so. So I wasn't. So I wasn't there. So I'm not asking if the officials are not good enough to make the correct decisions and to know the laws of the game at this level, then get.

42:50You do not belong at this level. Simple as that. Ale, you belong at our level, though. Well, I don't know what level that is, but thank you. I don't know either. Augie, you, of course, there in the UK would have been able to see the entire thing of this damage control tour that Ale is talking about, that Howard Webb has been on. What did you make of it? How is it being received over there, what he was on with Michael Owen?

43:12Mark Ogden:Yeah, I mean, look, I think you have to credit Howard Webb for fronting up because prior to Howard Webb getting involved, the referees didn't say anything, the organisation said nothing, so at least you've had an explanation, but it's not a credible explanation, like Ali said. It's just, you know, Enzo Fernandes was there, he was offside, the referees didn't know the law, the VAR didn't know the law. What was interesting listening to the audio was that they didn't once mention Enzo Fernandes, you know, potentially interfering with play. So the reaction has been that a kind of staggering ineptitude of these officials.

43:40Mark Ogden:They are going to be dropped from the rota for this week, and they won't appear again after the international break. But, you know, you look at the Premier League now, it's the most multicultural, cosmopolitan league in the world, of players from all over the world. So why don't we start bringing VARs and referees from all over the world? Bring the best. If it's the best league with the best players, bring the best officials so that this doesn't happen again because that can't happen again. But it's not the first time. It happens a lot. It happens a lot that VAR and Pro Ref or whatever they're called these days, PJMOL, are apologizing to clubs for mistakes.

44:10Mark Ogden:Well, it can't keep happening. Just get the best VARs and get the best referees from all over the world because it's the best league in the world. It needs the best people. And some people would suggest that me saying these people got to go would say, well, why are we asking for people to lose their job? And then they would say, to err is human. Yeah, to err is human if you are indeed the referee on the field. because the game is moving at a certain speed and you're not able to see everything. And so if that referee makes a mistake, I can understand it. But once you have the technology in front of you that actually works for you and gives you a clear picture and you, in slow motion, cannot make the correct decision, you've got to go.

44:52You're obviously not good enough for this job. Go on, Frank. You know what, Ali, what happened? what happened and we all watch you know the highlights or the the the i don't know two minutes and 29 seconds you know of the explanations or what they what really happened on the cross and on side off side they don't even care about the position of enzo fernandez is out of the equation it's like nowadays it would have been a straight offside because it was obvious that the guy is part of the action and he has an impact because he doesn't allow the goalkeeper to to get out doesn't allow Martinez to adjust and maybe kick the ball out before Erling Allen touches it.

45:32So it was part of the action. Nowadays, because the guy doesn't touch the ball, he doesn't get an impact. And really, because they were under pressure, they were checking everywhere but where the situation and the action were in fact going. And that's insane for me. They lost the basics. There is somebody outside. Check that. There is something there is an action there and they didn't I would also that it would go a long way For Howard Webb and all his people to simplify things all these conversations about processes and thresholds and the narrative and protocols and Listen, this was a very basic call to make you don't have to go through the protocol and the processes and the thresholds This is a very basic thing to call.

46:26But when you hide in those loopholes and in those explanations and big words, everybody gets caught up in that. And you lose sight of the most basic thing, which is to get the call right. Yeah. To get the call right. To follow the laws of the game, interpret the laws of the game accordingly, and to get the call right. And we're all talking about protocols and processes and thresholds. And look, maybe the simplest explanation is the correct explanation. You got it wrong. Simple as that. you got it wrong badly wrong Lord have mercy Augie final word on this

47:00Mark Ogden:yeah so I did my column today on this and it might be a controversial suggestion I think the time has come now for the Premier League to introduce what they have in the NFL like the red flag so coaches can appeal an incorrect verdict now none of us want the game to be stopped even more but it would be like a one appeal a game and if that had happened at the weekend Man United would have said look the guys offside can you check it it would have been dealt with the game would have been nil-nil. Who knows, City might have scored a late goal to win it, but the massive mistake that has left us talking about three days later would have been gone.

47:29Mark Ogden:So, bring in a situation like having tennis, NFL, cricket, whereby the team that's been wronged has the chance to appeal live so it can be dealt with there and then. So, whether FIFA or not, I don't know, but I think that's one way to deal with this situation where VR gets it wrong. That's one more layer, man. Look, conceptually, I agree with what Mark is saying, but it's one more layer. And if we can't get this initial layer correct, we are now going to a different threshold. It's mind-blowing at that point. Look, I understand where Mark is coming from, and I read his article, the whole article.

48:07It's a big article. It's a long article, too. It's very thorough, though. Very thorough. You can find it on ESPN.com. But thoughtful. Very thoughtful. You're right, Frank. Very thoughtful. That's a powerful and thorough article from Mark Ogden. You can definitely find it over on ESPN.com. But speaking of Augie, Augie, when it rains, it pours for Manchester United because I have to talk about this news that pretty much went viral in the last 48 hours. Manchester United youngster JJ Gabriel was apparently to have some part to play in the Carabao Cup game today. I'm pretty sure he's happy he did, but instead his name has made headlines because it was revealed, Augie, that he has asked to leave the club.

48:45Now, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people around the world wondering who is this youngster and why did it have the reaction that it has had?

48:55Mark Ogden:Well, JJ Gabriel is 15 years old. He's still a schoolboy, but he's regarded as the next big thing at Man United, the next George Best, the next Ryan Giggs, whatever you want to call it, the next Lionel Messi. He's a very talented young kid, but he's a young kid and he scores lots of great goals in under 15 level and you see all these YouTube clips. He's a very good player. but there's a situation where I think his father is an ex-player, Joe O 'Carule he's called, he used to play for the Republic of Ireland he's involved in controlling JJ Gabriel, his son and he wants him to play for Real Madrid or Barcelona and surprisingly pulled him out or suggested that he didn't want to play tonight against Brighton he was going to be on the bench so the situation is that United have got a kid that doesn't want to play for them, his dad doesn't want him to play for them he's under contract but when he's 16 because he's got an Irish passport, an EU passport he can move freely so United have got a problem but I think the reason why it's caused such a furore is because Man United are desperate for the next big star and the fans are desperate for the next big star he might not be, we've seen lots of 15 year olds who are the next big thing and never become it at 17, 18 there's a lot of development to go in there but he's very talented but I think United's view is that they're not going to be messed around by a 15 year old kid they can't be, they're Man United So I don't think this is going to end well.

50:10Mark Ogden:I think it's going to end with a messy divorce, shall we say. Frank, you were chuckling over there. No, no, because that's insane. That's amazing. And knowing now what's going on and what is at stake, you know, I even understand. Do you think that, oh, very soon I can go for free to Barcelona or Real Madrid instead of staying at Manchester United? It says a lot about the standing of Manchester United because like 20, 25 years ago, that young guy would have loved to stay around, you know, because Manchester United was one of the biggest clubs if it's not the biggest club in the world. So it says a lot about how Manchester United dropped in the ranking of the best club in the world.

50:58But it's insane. I mean, you sign a player and the guy is only 15 and a half. He doesn't want to play for you. when he has a chance to play with the seniors, we are in another world. We are in another world of football where too many things are at stake. I remember playing for football because I love the game and only because I love the game and not wondering that much.

51:22Mark Ogden:It's hard. The crazy thing is on this, the crazy thing on this is that usually when a player wants to leave, it's because he wants either more money or more games. But he's 15, so he couldn't even play for the first team. He's 15 years old, so he can't be more games. They can't pay him more money because he's a schoolboy. So there's something very strange about this because the two usual scenarios don't apply. So Man United are confused. I'm confused. The fans are confused. I think J.J. Gable and his dad may be a little bit confused as well. But like I say, it's not going to end well. Look, I think it's well documented that for Frank and myself, our childhood was a long time ago.

52:00Not that long. Especially mine. Especially mine. And it's a long time ago. But Mark's as well. Neither here nor there. But I cannot imagine myself as a 15-year-old having an opportunity to play with the senior team and me turning my back on that and walking away from that. That would have been the dream of all dreams. That would have been the, everything that I've worked for is for this opportunity, for this moment to be in the senior locker room, to be put in the uniform of the team that I want to play for, to feel like I'm achieving the things that I've been dreaming of. This is it. And then to kind of turn around and go, yeah, that's not for me.

52:51It's hard for me to understand being a former player. But I also think it paints a very, very damning picture as to what the current reality is of Manchester United, that you have a 15-year-old going, no, thanks, I'd rather not. I don't know what it says about the player. I don't know what it says about the player because I don't know enough about the situation. But I do know it is embarrassing for a club that a 15-year-old is saying, this is not for me. I'd rather go elsewhere. That is troubling. Yeah, I'm starting to question if it's for me as well. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What a tough time. Whoa.

53:32Anyways, make sure to join us over on Extra Time. Frank will be back, Augie will be back, and Ali, and they'll be answering your questions. Rich Eisen here. Running a small business means every hire matters. A bad hire costs time and money, but the right one helps your business grow. The challenge? Finding that person without sorting through resumes. That's where LinkedIn Hiring Pro comes in. It screens candidates so you can focus on conversations with qualified talent. With Hiring Pro, you can hire with confidence and build the team you need. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire.

54:05Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash eisen. Terms and conditions apply. Shohei Otani's interpreter was fired today. Ipe Mitsuhara ran up gambling debts to a Southern California bookmaking operation. The inside story of the biggest scandal in modern baseball. He was absolutely bananas the amount of bets he was making. I've never seen him like it. From 30 for 30 podcasts, this is the betrayal of Shohei Otani. Presented by Gusto. New episodes available now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

54:43Back to La Liga now. Barcelona beat Racing Santander by seven goals to two. Now let's hear from Andreas Christensen as well as the two managers Hansi Flick and Jose Alberto Lopez. I was asking Rafinha, is there anything you can do more? Because I don't know if Rafinha can do anything else for his team. He said, I always have to improve. This is the attitude I like. Of course, he can improve, we can improve. It's like a normal life. So I always have to improve. So you scored seven goals. you considered two though, what do you assess of the defensive performance today?

55:24Mark Ogden:I think that's the main things that I said when we have to do a few things better. It's been a few games now where we are in control and let in some goals. In the end, it doesn't matter, but as a team, as defenders, as a goalkeeper, you want to, it's part of your pride when you go into the games. You want to play for clean sheets. So it's something that we want to clean up and do better. But at the moment we also have to enjoy the games. We are, like I said, we're in a very happy place, in a very good place. Enjoy every day a training ground and now we are enjoying all the games also. So, yeah, we have to keep going.

56:02Mark Ogden:Small things that we need to clean up, but we are happy.

56:10Today we had the hard day of going to the dentist. And when you go to the dentist every year for a checkup, you find four things that pain you. Today was one of those that you go to the dentist and suffer pain. All right, well, Barcelona will be in action again this Saturday. Away to Sevilla, 3 p.m. Eastern time is the game. As usual, join us 30 minutes before for the pre-show.

56:37Europa League action. Milan going up against Benfica in this one. 16 minutes in, it would be Benfica that take the lead. Billy Dokevacu is allowed to come to his left foot and creates just enough space to then find that gap at the far post. It's a well, 1-0. Into the second half now. The ball gets into the box, and Kaminsky would smash it into the net. It's a good serve from the left-hand side, but it really is all about the finish. taking the pace of the service, redirecting it on target. Beautiful goal. All right, Ale, let's go to you know where. Okay. We're going to go for some Copa Libertadores quarterfinal.

57:21How about only in South America, Ale? How is that a yellow car? How is that just a yellow car? Mind you, that was Hulk that they took out. I was going to say, it takes a lot to take out Hulk. Any Hulk, for that matter. Deflected shot here goes in. And Platense get one. Goalkeeper was already committed. He can't quite react on time. 1-0. Into stoppage time here. Service from the right-hand side. Uh-oh. All right. Okay. All right. Look at my guy. Go get it.

58:00In the seventh minute, we get another goal. I would think I know you. Able to cut to the inside. Finds a far post. Platense 2. Fluminense 1. So Fluminense now advanced to the semifinals. And poor Platense. Good fight, but they are eliminated.

58:23Oh, well, look at that. Football America is coming your way on Thursday. Lots to talk about Jonathan Davin getting on the score sheet. Johnny Cardoso. Coming back from injury and having an assist. Exactly. I'll be there with Hercules Gomez. Christian Pulisic came on to the game. Didn't quite have the impact that he wanted. Loves to talk about it. It seems like you want to join. Just join us. Pull up a chair. Hey, Shaq is going to be there. You know where. Shaq is going to be there. All right. Well, there's a new episode of Football WRK. Murray had to step in. You're not fine with Ali's boots, Alex?

58:59I'm saying it's a look. And jorts are very much in. Are they? Yeah. Oh, man. That's like 1994 for me. Oh, my days. Well, that episode of Football W is out now. And there's more NWSL action coming your way as the Chicago Stars go up against the Washington Spirit. The Spirits needing a bit of a bounce back after they suffered a whooping against Boston Legacy. Sunday, 5 p.m. Eastern Time on ESPN. Is this game? All right. Ali and I are going to go off and discuss whether jorts are fashionable or not. Remember our Kieran Gibbs was wearing them? Oh, he loves a jort. He loves a jort. That's it for this edition of I nearly said Extra Time.

59:39But ESPN FC, don't go anywhere, though, because Extra Time and more jorts chatter is next.

59:49All right.

59:55Oh, can you hear me? One, two. All right. She's back. Welcome into Extra Time. She's here. Woo. We almost thought we had more. So many things not going my way today. So many things. I didn't get my coffee right. I didn't get, you know, United right. Yeah. I don't want to talk about it anymore. Are you going to welcome Mark Ogden and Frank LaBeouf who are joining us for this one? But before you ask the first question, I think people need to have a behind-the-scenes look at how you take in Manchester United and the struggles of Manchester United. Oh, no. Oh, no. I couldn't look at you. This is, yes, this is after Brighton scored.

1:00:40We were like five seconds from going on air. Wait for the shot, dude.

1:00:51I should never forget that the cameras are always recording. We were five seconds away from going on air to talk about Barcelona. and Ale looked at me and said, oh, no, Brighton, because the monitor is right here. And I said, no, I'm not going to look. I'm not going to look thinking that me looking would stop them from scoring. But alas, it did not. See, that's the thing that people may not understand is that I can see it. I can see it developing. I can see it coming. You somehow decided that turning your back on it was going to make it go away. Yeah. And then the anger. It was anger. I was really going to throw my shot sheets properly, but our producers and everyone kept me in check and said, remember, you have another game to do when you're a professional.

1:01:33And do not let these 11 dusty men stress you out. How quickly did it go from anger to despair? Honestly, that segment was hard to do. When you were yelling about Michael Carrick needing to have more bite, I felt like you were yelling at me. And I just kind of felt like a niña regañada. I'm just kidding. I know. Augie knows what a niña regañada means. I don't know. All right, let's get into this because we can talk about Barca. The Barca makes us happy because they're exciting. When will you admit that this Barca is the best team in the world? Frank, are we ready to admit that? After six or seven games?

1:02:10No, I'm sorry. I know football too much. It's too early. We are talking about consistency and Chuck Pasadena. Yeah, we have to admit that right now Barca is the best team in the world. Right now. After seven games. but I'm sorry I will make a statement maybe in the winter time and for sure at the end of the season. Argy?

1:02:38Mark Ogden:Well, listen, they're the best attacking team in the world right now but can they defend? And we don't know if they can defend because they haven't really played anyone of any real quality so far. So when they play against Real, when they play against Bayern Munich, Arsenal, PSG, Man City, then we'll see. But that's been their Achilles heel for the last two or three seasons of Champions League. So as it stands right now, I'm with Frank. You can't say it yet. You can't say the best team in the world. Now, well, Mark makes his point, and there is some truth to what he's saying. Let's be honest. Mark would much rather be covering Barcelona every day than Manchester United every day.

1:03:10Are you kidding me right now? I would rather be covering. I don't know how I got two United games to do on the shows. I think without reproach or without any sort of concern or argument, Barcelona are the most entertaining team in the world. And this is by far runaway. More than Bayern? I think so because Bayern will defend a little bit more than Barcelona. So Barcelona are entertaining both ways. They're entertaining in the way that they attack. They're also entertaining in the way that they don't defend. And so therefore other teams, whoever they are, will get opportunities. So there will be goals.

1:03:47And if you like goals, you like watching Barcelona play. And if you don't like goals, then go watch something else. Yeah. Good law. Good law. Leaning to joy. Next question is also about Barcelona. And this one's for Ale. Ale, Barca have scored at least five goals in five of their seven games thus far. How sustainable do you think this is because they seem impossible to stop? I think this is a question that probably should go to Mark because it is riddled with negativity. It is riddled with negativity. But truth be told is that we have to imagine that this is not sustainable. That scoring five goals a game is just not it.

1:04:31But you watch them play and you kind of go, yeah, against most teams in La Liga, they're capable of doing this. right now, there is, I don't think right now you put any team in front of them in La Liga that are not in danger of giving up three, four goals against Barcelona. Yeah. And so, entertaining as they may be, I don't think it's sustainable because long-term, you know, the ball just kind of doesn't bounce your way. You don't get the calls. It hits it off the post and now instead of off the post and then all things can happen in this game that we love so much. So is it sustainable? I'm afraid not.

1:05:11Frank, not sustainable? No, of course not. And for the beauty of football, I mean, I mean, it's nice to see goals, but you want to see games. You want to see hard time, you know, for both teams. And you want to see, you want to have suspense as well. So hopefully, you know, Barcelona will have a hard time to beat another team And winning sometimes 2-1 or 1-0, it's also nothing. And when they're going to play against bigger teams, with all due respect for the other team that they have been confronted, it's going to be another story. I don't think they're going to win final against Real Madrid, against Bayern Munich in Champions League, Paris Saint-Germain as well, or some English teams.

1:05:59It's going to be harder. And I bet Augie agrees. No, well, he already said it.

1:06:05Mark Ogden:I just have to say, it's realism, not negativity. You have to get the distinction. I'm being realistic rather than negative. Very pragmatic, our argument. But you do agree with the realism that you would rather cover Barcelona every day rather than Manchester United? 100%. 100%. Just sucks the joy out. Even under the rain. Even under the rain. Although it was raining a lot at the Camp Nou today. It looks very much like Manchester. That's why. Where it always pours, it seems. Anyways, next question. Oh, jeez, and it is a Manchester United question. Will Manchester United show Michael Carrick the patience Arsenal showed Mikel Arteta, giving him time to build and develop the club into something special, or will the pressure for immediate results make that impossible, Augie?

1:06:56Mark Ogden:Well, listen, Mikel Arteta had a very difficult start at Arsenal, but the difference with Mikel Arteta at Arsenal was that right from day one, he was back to get people out like Mesut Ozil, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, and make big decisions. Now, one thing that struck me about Michael Arteta, when he signed David Reier, he didn't need a goalkeeper. He didn't need to replace Aaron Romsdale, but he made it clear to the board, I want David Reier, he can make the difference. And they backed him. As you said earlier on, the Man United board haven't backed Michael Carrick in the summer. They basically paid£150 million for three midfielders.

1:07:27Mark Ogden:They basically got a cheap goalkeeper as a number two. So Michael Carrick hasn't got the credentials that hit that Mikel Arteta had in the sense of the club backing him so You know I'm gonna back him because they're not backing him already They'll just give a bit more time to lose more games and eventually it'll cost him the job But if Man United are backing Michael Carrick they'd have said yes You can have that left back that you need yes You can have that right back that you need and yes You can maybe upgrade on your striker, but they didn't do any of that because Man United are Arsenal and Michael Carrick isn't Mikel Arteta Frank, do you think he should be allowed some patience even though I know Chelsea really don't show patience to many managers and you're probably just used to that that's true, you're wrong yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm used to that but no, I think they need it because again, during the show, it's what I said they tried many coaches and they came and go and went, sorry and left very easily and quickly where you need stability and Carrick showed last season that he was capable of changing a team who was so poor in terms of performances.

1:08:36So really, I think it's time for Manchester United to open up the credential that Carrick needs in order to get some better players and give him some time to make sure that it works.

1:08:55I mean, this is all fine and well, talking about it right now, right? Let's just assume for a second that they get destroyed by Fulham this weekend. Possibility. Or they lose to Fulham. And so, like, we can all sit here and be, like, altruistically saying Michael Carrick. Altruistically? Wow. I brought it. I brought it. Wow, you brought it, Ale. I went for it. English is not his first language. No, it is not. And then you lose that match and you kind of go, wait a minute. So how long are we waiting? How long are we willing to put up with this? And now you're going to sit for three weeks, because this is how long the international break is going to be, just chewing on this.

1:09:41And that's a possibility. It's a real possibility. It's not beyond the realm of possibilities that Manchester United could lose to Fulham away from home. As crazy as that may have seen at the beginning of the season, well, this is where we are. Anything's possible. And so while we can sit here and say, yeah, just give him the time,

1:10:05it's hard to make that decision if the team is not winning. And at some point, what you want to see, and what I think Arsenal saw from Mikel Arteta, is that while there were some early struggles, you began to see steps forward. Steps forward. Yeah. You got to see it. You have to see a team that is taking steps forward. And right now, it's sideways and back. And when they take a step back, it's not a step back. It's like they jump backwards. And how much of that can Manchester United do? Well, they've been doing it for nearly a decade. This is exactly what they've been doing. It's sideways and back.

1:10:43Sideways and back. I don't know how much more of that you can handle if you're Michael Carrick or anybody making a decision at Manchester United. The whole time we were talking, I was wondering if I knew the definition of altruistically. And I was wondering, Frank, Frank, do you know what altruistically means? Oh, no, no, no, no. Come on, man. Not really. Maybe in French, if you say the French word, I will. But in English, no, I don't. I don't quite have a handle from the French. French side, no. No, I don't quite have it like that. But just suffice to know that positive vibes. Positive vibes.

1:11:15You can have these positive vibes about this whole thing. And you can be naive about it, too. And right now, it feels like if Manchester United don't get results, then you kind of go, well, yeah, Michael Carrick is our guy because he's a quick. Carrick's at the wheel. Yeah, yeah. Well, based on what? And that's the part that I think it would be troublesome for me, anyways, if I were part of this club. All right. Well, if we're talking positive vibes, then we definitely don't go to Mark Ogden. But Augie's going to definitely get the next question. Augie, who's under more pressure today? Carrick, Lampard, or Deserby?

1:11:48Mark Ogden:Michael Carrick, because it's Man United. Look where Coventry... Coventry won the Championship last year, Frank Lampard got them promoted, so yes, he's under pressure because they haven't won a game, but they've lost every game, but it's different levels of pressure. De Zerbe's under a different level of pressure because he actually saved Tottenham last season. I could argue that Michael Carrick got United in the Champions League in a similar scenario, but the pressure on Man United is intense because it's Man United. It's like comparing Real Madrid to Valencia or Real Madrid to Elche. It is totally different.

1:12:19Mark Ogden:So Man United manager will always have more pressure. Even if he's second in the table, he'll have more pressure than Roberto De Zerbi and Frank Lampard. So I think if you're looking in terms of order right now, it's Carrick, Lampard and De Zerbi. But Carrick, all the way. I didn't realise that Mark Ogden hated Elche. Elche! The way he said it, he was just like, this isn't Elche. I was trying to think of a Spanish version of Coventry. I don't know, man. Poor Elche, catching straight. They put up a good fight. They did what they could. And it's close by Alicante. Exactly. Which is a gorgeous area.

1:12:52I'm just saying. Oh, my God. I know Coventry is not a beautiful beach town. No, it's not. Yeah, nothing's like Coventry in Spain. That doesn't exist. Oh, I don't think anything in Spain wants to be like Coventry. With all your respect. Final question now for Frank. Frank, does it sit right with you when teams like Ipswich and Fulham opt to rotate in cup games. Seeing as how it could be your only chance at winning some silverware for the season, why not give it a full go? I agree. I agree with Baz and that question because, you know, I mean, again, I go back to our time where I remember playing like 50, 55, 60 games a year and I never thought about rotating and hearing my coach say, well, you know what?

1:13:43You're not going to play the cup game because, you know, you have to race for the Premier League. I would have said, what? I want to play football. I want to win the cup. So if I'm the best in my position, play me, please. And I remember with Strasbourg, we had the chance to play the French Cup final against Paris Saint-Germain. We lost, but we had the chance to be there. And we never wonder if we had to race and the coach never wondered if he had to rotate any players. I don't know. It's kind of fashion. It's nice. Well, I thought it through. I'm going to rest the player. He's at Hipswich because we want to do well in the Premier League.

1:14:24We're going to save our butt there. But for the FA Cup, I'm going to play another guy. What kind of crap is that? No, play the best team. You're at Hipswich. You're at Fulham. You're at Coventry. You fight for your life every game you play at the top level. And if you have a chance to win a Carabao Cup or FA Cup, go for it. Enjoy. I love that. I love how these questions fire up, Frank. He hates when people rotate and don't give it 100%. It could be Sunday League. And Frank says. Excuse me. It's not 100%. 150 %? No. 100%. 100%. Indeed. Yeah. Frank says it is just a blessing. It is a privilege to play this beautiful game.

1:15:12Why are you looking at me? I thought you were looking at Mark. Is Mark thinking about Coventry and Elche still? Mark often hates Elche. Oh, my days. If we see Augie anywhere near Alicante, we're going to be like, Augie? Yeah. I don't know. Augie loves him at Marbella, though. But he had a go at Valencia as well. Valencia is a beautiful place. Valencia is stunning. And their team is not that bad. Listen,

1:15:37Mark Ogden:Valencia are terrible right now. Valencia is a beautiful city. but Valencia and Tottenham are kind of, you know, fallen giants maybe. That's what I meant. Yeah, fair play. That's a good comparison. But poor Elchecott strays, man. Okay, let's not call Tottenham a giant. Even if it's a fallen giant. Fallen giant. Well, I know.

1:15:58Europa League. Well, speaking of fallen giants, we want to take a look at Alexis. Oh, no, guys. Yes, she's like, that's right. This is what I'm saying. Oh, oh, oh, oh. No. She said this, and I quote, she says, I hate it here. That's what it is. Ah. I hate it here. Wait for it. Wait for it. Look at me. Ah. Hey. Were you mixing the cards? What were you doing? That's how I feel about United. We're done. I'm going home. I'm tired of talking about them. I hate it here. I hate it here. I hate it here. Not here at ESPN FC, though, guys. We love it here. And we are on seven days a week, so please come and join us, even when we have meltdowns.

1:16:47We? That sounds like a lot of people. Look.

1:17:04This episode is brought to you by State Farm. No two football players are exactly alike, and the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm gets to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.