Can Madrid Challenge Barca for LALIGA Title?

17:34Frank Leboeuf:seems to always happen and for good reason, for both and very contrasting for both James Trafford and Kepa Trafford who got the nod early on from Pep Guardiola you knew that was coming, Pep has done this throughout his entire career and turned up big time, especially early on with that save to keep Arsenal out. Had that gone in, who knows how the game would have played out. And then, of course, this is the James Trafford triple save. Which, listen, as things go, to make this kind of save, or saves, this early on just settles you right down. And you feel great going into, well, the next 84 minutes with this.

18:18Frank Leboeuf:So credit to James Trafford for his performance. But then tellingly, Kepa, the other end, later on, a couple of mistakes. One that just kind of unnerved him in coming out for this one. He just judges, I think he judges the bounce off the turf incorrectly and kind of gets away with it in that he has to foul Dorku. But that kind of uncertainty leads up to this. and from there you knew exactly what your talking point was going to be for this cup final. And while Kepa will take the brunt of the criticism, on one hand it's no less a match that the City deserved. Secondly, I think Arsenal weren't great on the day either.

19:08Frank Leboeuf:So we leave that for Arteta to figure out. He just got the goal of Union bit in at the end, didn't he? You're just right to the death. You have to throw in Man City and actually Arsenal just won't get it. So did Man City... So it's not Keber's fault? Mistakes aside. No, I said it was Keber's fault. Mistakes aside. Were City better than Arsenal? I was just pointing out. But I said it was... Just pointing out the goalies union came in at them. I said it was a mistake and then I said, all things being equal, other than that, City were the better of the two teams. I don't see how I'm wrong in saying that.

19:46Dan Thomas:Well, let's go right to the other end of the pitch with Jan Agafiotov, shall we? Did goalkeepers decide this game, Jan? Yes, they did. The decisions on the goalkeepers. And me and Xhaka is now going to travel America to talk about goalkeepers in the next coming year. Because, I mean, we tend to do that all the time. But listen, listen, there were some big decisions to be made before the game. Who had the biggest decision to make? that was Ateta because Pep Guardiola he got Trafford in to be his number one keeper then Donnarumma was available he took him in and he probably said to Trafford you're gonna play you're gonna do that and he feeling like the first like a goalkeeper number one Kepa is always will always be number two on the other hand Pep before this tournament he has won so many trophies and Ateta has won one for six years so he got to think what's the best team I should put out there What's the best team?

20:40Should I put one of the, maybe the best goalkeeper in English football this season, Raya, on the bench? Or should I go and maybe do something bad for the atmosphere in the dressing room? I don't know. But as we know, and Shakar, I've discussed so many times, remember the goalkeeper is something else. They can have competition. So that's only for the strikers to have. So they put Kepa in there. Fine. But, but, Arteta got to live with his mistakes. weeks because that was a big mistake for Kepa. That was on a time in the game. Yes, Manchester City, I agree with Xhaka, in the second half there was only one team on the pitch.

21:16City were good. That goal was a consequence of the pressure they made. But that was a big decision of Ateta. Maybe in the long term, maybe it keeps the dressing room intact. I was at Wembley and I was discussing this with Peter Schmeichel. He was not a bad goalkeeper himself, by the way. And he also said this is a big decision for Ateta. Do you think that Peter Schmeichel would have let his second goalkeeper, his reserve, play in a big final like that? Never, ever.

21:47Dan Thomas:This is when it comes to a conversation we were even having last week, doesn't it, when we mentioned Connoir and what it comes down to in the end, Shaq. What is the right decision here? Are you sticking with your cupkeeper or sticking with what you think is going to be best for the team?

21:59Frank Leboeuf:First of all, hindsight is 20-20. and inevitably whoever lost, there was going to be questions asked of the manager, whether it was Pep Guardiola or Ateta. Now, OK, maybe Pep Guardiola has earned that right to play who he likes, but Pep did this his first season at Barcelona before winning a single title. That's what he's always done. That's how he's approached. And you can't question that given the title that he's won since. And again, I could say the same about Carlo Ancelotti, his decisions, Mikel Arteta here talking about Schmeichel and making big decisions. You can go all the way back to the 1994 FA Cup final where Sir Alex Ferguson, well, he wasn't Sir at the time, uses one team throughout in the cup and then in the final plays a starting team and they lose 3-1 to Villa.

22:49Frank Leboeuf:And he writes in his books that he questions that decision, whether he should have played his team that played in the cup all the way throughout because they felt like this was their opportunity it was their tournament um so even even sir alex ferguson looks back on some of those decisions questioning decisions that he made so again all i'm saying is as a manager you make your decision as to what it is and go with it now from from my perspective and talking about this week and the build-up from from the time the champions league games were done you knew who was going to play in in the cup final for pep guardiola there was no question about it and James Trafford had that confidence that he had the manager's backing.

23:31Frank Leboeuf:Now, I don't know whether Arteta was saying so behind the scenes, but publicly, we weren't quite sure. And whether Kepa felt that confidence, felt that backing, again, it's a question. All of those things are relevant. Sorry, all of those things you said are relevant, right? But at the end of the day, sentiment shouldn't be coming into it because that's all it is. All it is is sentiment. And Arteta said it. I was being fair to Kepa. Well, it won't be fair to the rest of the team. You know, you make a decision as a coach who you pick, right? But when you know you've made a choice and you know that your odds of winning have dropped because of the choice you made before the even whistle goes, then that's wrong.

24:20That's not right. That is, in my opinion, not right. But Shaka, you're making good points, but there is a big difference, because in sport you can't hide. If they win this final, fine. But we live and die by our mistakes. In sport, you can't hide. And there is another player, you're talking about Angelotti, you're talking about Sir Alex, you're talking about Pep. These are serial winners. Arteta is not a serial winner as a manager. He can be in two months, because he can win two or three more titles. He can be, but at this moment he's not. And another thing that we have to bring on the table, have you seen the record of Kepa in Wembley finals?

24:59He had lost five before this. In one of them, he didn't want to go off. In the other one, he came on, couldn't save a penalty and missed his own penalty. And so he had a terrible record there. I'm not saying it's easier to sit here, of course, to say what to do. But in sport, you can't hide. They lost the final and they lost the final because of a big, big mistake of the goalkeeper. And that is the fact. And Angelotti can do that. He's won like 50 titles, 40 Pep Guardiola. He can afford doing that, but Arsenal can't. And maybe, Xhaka, and that's maybe not me, I understand that you can say to your second goalkeeper, Well, you're going to play all the league rounds, but after the semi-final, if we get into the final, I will decide what to do.

25:49I mean, I don't get this. That is the only position that you would say, no, no, no, it's fine. We don't play with our best team, do we?

25:56Frank Leboeuf:So a couple of things to address here. And while I get what Jan is saying about Alex Ferguson and Pep Goyle being serial winners. Again, Pep did this in his first season as manager for Barcelona. I'm not sure anybody accuses Pep in his first season as a manager of being a serial winner. Sir Alex Ferguson questioned that decision in 1994. When, well, what, two years, three years into his tenure at Manchester United? I'm not sure at that point anybody called Sir Alex Ferguson a serial winner in 1994. We do that later on. So to say that Arteta is somehow in a different position from where they were in those respective positions, fine.

26:39Frank Leboeuf:Now, again, if you want to question Arteta signing Kepa, that's a fair criticism. This is the same manager that sold Emi Martinez, that sold Ramsdale, that sold Bern Leno. You could question that all you want. But that's a different conversation altogether. I understand what you're saying. First of all, Sir Alex had been in Manchester United for many more years. I'm not sure of the date, but he's been there for a certain time. I was talking about 94. So he questioned the 94 final. Yeah, 94. But he had then won the European Cup for Aberdeen. He has taken Aberdeen in to be the best team in Scotland, just for the record.

27:26But the thing is, that's fine, Shaq. I get your point. If you win the final, that was the right decision. That is how sports are. We are not like in some business quarters where we can say, yeah, we're just doing a process. is there and then on Wembley. Manchester City won the league cup final this season because of Ateta made that decision. And fine, just do that on a long term. Maybe that's the right thing for the dressing room. I accept that. And Ateta's job is a thousand percent more difficult than mine. City is saying that. I do understand and I respect that. But there is nowhere to hide when you fail.

28:10Dan Thomas:Okay, let's talk about what it means for the Premier League though. Obviously this was the League Cup when it comes to the table. There's nine points between the two of them, but Manchester City do have a game in hand there. It does feel as though Manchester City smell a little bit of blood right now after that result though, because we heard from Nico O 'Reilly after the game, and this is what he had to say. He said 100 % it is a blow for them, and we need to build on it and get some momentum from this win now. As soon as the international break is over, we need to kick on and fight hard. Jan, do you think Man City really do genuinely still believe?

28:45I still think they believe, but I still think that this Manchester City is not consistent enough to do what they did in the second half with Wembley this season. In a normal year, a normal year is for Manchester City winning the Premier League four seasons in a row. I think they could have done it because if they win the game in hand, six points. If they win against Arsenal, three points and so on. But what we've seen from Manchester City this season, there have been a tendency to concede silly goals. We have seen a tendency of being 2-0 up and lose control of the game. So I doubt it. I think, again, Stevie was talking about it was for Barca to lose the championship.

29:24And I still think it's the same with Arsenal. I think they have this season shown that they are good to get games over the line. So I think they will win the Premier League. But O 'Reilly believes, Pep believes, you know, if you've got Pep running after you and you're being at Teta and you see your master coming after you, I mean, I hope we get a great end of the season in the Premier League. There's no question Man City winning the Carabao Cup will relax them. and they will be going into the Premier League games without any sort of burden whatsoever. But I can assure you, Manchester City are not sitting, talking to each other about smelling blood and they know exactly what the problem is and they know the problem is there's nothing they can do about it.

30:14All they've got to do is keep going and try and be at their best and try and put some pressure on Arsenal. Because 100%, this is Arsenal's to lose. Absolutely, Arsenal's to lose. It just so happens that City won this cup final and it takes a little bit of weight off them. They've got a trophy in the cabinet for this season and so they can relax. But yeah, they're still miles off winning the title.

30:37Dan Thomas:Does it hurt Arsenal psychologically what happened?

30:42Frank Leboeuf:I hope it toughens them psychologically. That they understand that they can't take anything for granted. So much has gone, I say so much has gone in their favour so far this season. and I'm almost thinking of everybody as kind of falling by the wayside, but they understand maybe how fragile even that six-point lead is, that they have to be better because, let's be honest, they have not been good. And it makes them more resolute going in for this title run-in. It's one less, well, it was a final, but one less thing to worry about. Now let's just focus, let's just button down. they would see kind of a lottery discourse that has come with that loss.

31:26Frank Leboeuf:I hope it unifies them and toughens them as a team. If they use it the right way they can use this as if I'm a tether I'm sitting them down and I'm saying right this will just show you that in order to win anything you have to go and win it. It's not coming to you.

31:46Dan Thomas:So do they need to be a bit bolder in these bigger games? Absolutely. This is not the biggest kick up the backside for what they've been doing over the last three or four weeks. It's absolutely, it's fallen into Arteta's lap somewhat to just sit them down and say exactly what I said. Right, now we've got to go and win some. We've got to go and win it. We can't afford to sit tight and let it come to us because that doesn't happen. You've got to go and grab it. I was standing there, Kay, when Manchester City went up the famous stairs to get their trophies and I was watching the faces of Arsenal.

32:19I was watching the face of Ateta. I mean, those faces wanted to have revenge in the next hour. I mean, they will get even more hungry to do that. I think it will have a bigger impact on the Champions League, to be honest. Because in the Champions League now, when you come into these rounds, the quarterfinals, the semifinals and the final, you need match winners. You need people who can win the game for you. And I saw at this Wembley game, where would Declan Rice in this game? Where has Saka been lately? I mean, these are players they need to have. And with PSG's and the Bayerns of the Real Madrid of this world, they got so many people to win them football games.

33:00I don't see those individuals now at Arsenal. And I also say, I'm not just saying that because it's a Norwegian, but they need to get Martin Erdegard back as well to make even Saka better on that right side. and they also need him to get that balance better in midfield because at this moment, he's not working.

33:19Dan Thomas:We're just marking Martin Odegaard off on our bingo card.

33:22Frank Leboeuf:It's nothing to do with the Norwegian Union. If I'm a member of the goalkeepers union, Jan is a fully pitted member of the Norwegian Union. Because you, English, are now no English. Hey, don't call me English. It's only K. He's talking to you. He's talking to you. It's anything you like, but not English. One English woman here. Now, isn't it interesting when English pundits are discussing Arsenal, they're not saying one word about Declan Rice because he's going to be good for England at the World Cup. Not England. That's Kay. She's talking, he's talking to Kay. I lost my point, but you know what I mean.

33:54Yeah, Kay. Stop discussing Declan Rice, Kay.

33:57Dan Thomas:I want you to get a passport now, all right, Jan? Leave me alone. Leave me alone. He's a Ballon d 'Or candidate. Where was he? I love Declan Rice. But where was he at the final? Where was Saka at the final? Those are the ones who are going to win the Champions League. Ballon d 'Or race. Go on. When did Odegaard get in the Ballon d 'Or race? It was fifth like two years ago. Two seasons ago. So sorry about that. Hopefully fifth will count this year in the Premier League. OK, let's talk about the Premier League and what we've seen this weekend. In the rest of the results, obviously those two teams weren't in action that we've just been discussing because they were in the League Cup final.

34:33Dan Thomas:We saw that draw between Bournemouth and Manchester United. Stevie telling us to ask him after the Brighton game about Liverpool and that happened Sunderland with a big late win over their big rivals Newcastle and Spurs with a very sad loss to Nottingham Forest at home as well, so we wanted to ask you guys which game you wanted to pick out to talk about, I'm going to start with you Stevie because I think it's probably obvious Well yeah, I was sitting there, honestly before the Red Blues sort of start the game I thought right, can't wait to go back to Kane and go, right, yes, here we go. It's on the corner.

35:08They're back. And then by the end of the game, I was sitting, I'm going to have to go and sit with Kane and say, no, they're not. Yeah, I mean, it was a horrible performance. And there was a lot of things to pick out that weren't good. But I think the overriding thing I have in my head is that by the end of the game, Liverpool turned into the mess that they were before Christmas, where there were so many changes during the game that you felt, you weren't quite sure who was playing where and who should be playing where. You had midfielders playing full-back, midfielders playing centre-back. I mean, it was just, by the end, it was just a complete mess.

35:50And so, are they back? I think backwards is probably more apt. How do you say that?

35:58Dan Thomas:I thought you did. Pretty nice play on words. Yeah, and I think that's the game you're picking too, right? Yes, because I was in Brighton. And we just have to tell you that after the game, we were a bit waiting for our train. I was going to this cosy English pub, and it was fantastic to see the football. I came in there, the loudest music in the history of pubs and rugby. So that was, I'd say, it's a part of my experience from Brighton. But Brighton played a fantastic game. Liverpool, as Stevie describing them, I mean, I couldn't see what they tried to do. That was one of them things. On Wednesday, we saw energy.

36:37We saw passion. We saw speed. And at Brighton, we saw nothing of that. Maybe we overestimated the game against Galatasaray. Maybe Galatasaray were too bad. Maybe we overanalyzed that win. But I had Van Dijk afterwards in an interview. And my first question to me, how irritating is it to stand here and just confirm what everybody said? Let's just see what's happening on Saturday before we know where Liverpool are. And it was a bit grumpy on the question. But he said, yeah, there is lack of consistency. There is lack of defending. And he tried to tell me that the first goal Welbeck scored, that was the referee's fault.

37:21But I have to say that was the Liverpool defence fault. And remember this, I just need to get this out. You know, remember this guy called Trent Alexander-Arnold who was so bad defensively, and then they lost him to Real Madrid, and now they're worse defensively? Interesting.

37:38Dan Thomas:OK. While we've got you, Jan, because we have asked Stevie about this, it's come up on the show before, what do you think about Arnaz Slott staying in the role at Liverpool? Oh, I think that is too early. I think that is too premature to discuss Arnaz Slott. I mean, a lot of people say, yeah, but he took over a Klopp team and so on and all that. I think that they will stick with him. But you know what will happen if they won't go into Champions League? I mean, now they're in the next round in the Champions League themselves, but they need to qualify for next season. That's going to be hard enough this season.

38:14So Manchester United, that point, they lost two points, but that was a one point taken on Liverpool. A great win for Aston Villa. And thank God that Rosseño is messing things around at Chelsea because this fifth place, or maybe Everton will come. That next game, by the way, Everton against Liverpool. Three points. Three points.

38:35Dan Thomas:Yeah, ask Stevie after that game how he feels about Liverpool, if you don't mind. They're backwards. One more thing, Jan, just because we're on this topic before we go to Xhaka's game, because I know it's a different game. game, if they do keep slot, is there a risk of then losing out on a free Xabi Alonso that's available? The thing is, because it's interesting, because I travelled to this game, I talked to people, apparently Xabi Alonso is not as hot as everybody thinks he is at Liverpool. I saw my golden boy, Florian Witts, and I must admit he had a terrible game against Brighton, sorry I have to say that, but he's talking about that he's keeping in touch with his assistant coach and blah, blah, blah, and Frimpong is doing the same.

39:19I think that is two plus two is four. I think that five, by the way, because I think that if Schlott will kind of get the fourth or the fifth position, he will stay on. I don't think that they will go for Alonso, but I may be wrong because we all know how we loved him when he was a Leverkusen.

39:43Dan Thomas:Yeah, absolutely. OK, so these two picked Brighton and Liverpool, but that's not who you are going with, Xhaka.

39:48Frank Leboeuf:No, I'm looking at Spurs and more importantly, what's left, what's to come for them. Now, on the back of the Atletico Madrid performance result, the Liverpool performance result, everybody thought, well, this is something that Spurs could build on going forward. But then you see this performance at home, get embarrassed yet again. one point between them and West Ham now and you look at what's to come in their title running and everything just seems to be you thought Spurs had hit rock bottom and it seems to only be getting worse now I want West Ham to stay up I say unashamedly they at least have put together a bit of a run particularly at home where they've not lost in four okay three of those were draws three draws and a win and they last four at home Spurs have lost to West Ham at home now lost to Forest at home they've drawn with wolves at home so that kind of speaks to their struggles and you saw it again and then on the back of that result losing at home to another team in that relegation battle Igor Tudor has to raise up because of a family bereavement and we wish him well but of course as far as having a manager there and being a part of what's to come in the next few weeks We're not sure how that will take shape.

41:11Frank Leboeuf:Again, we wish him the best. Reports that the carrier is going to go off and have a minor operation. Okay, it's an international window, but operations are operations. I'm not sure he's back in two weeks, which, again, kind of talking about goalkeepers and cup competitions, that means Spurs now have to go to Kinski, who was hauled off after 17 minutes, what, three games ago, four games ago? So you thought Spurs had hit rock bottom. It couldn't get any worse. And it just seems to be piling on.

41:44Dan Thomas:Yeah. 17th, one point above the relegation zone, Stevie. You know, I can't come up with one reason why Spurs would stay up ahead of Forrest, ahead of West Ham. And if you want to bring Leeds into it, because all the other three sides have got a shape and a way they play. and understand how they're going to get victories or draws. A fight in them as well, do you think? I think Spurs have got a fight in them. I think we saw in the first half the way they dominated Forest that there's fight there. Unfortunately, they're not all in the same wavelength. They're just not. And that is the complete opposite of all the three other sides.

42:27Forest, West Ham and Leeds. They all know their job. They all know what they're trying to do. They all know how they're going to go about it, which you don't see that at Spurs. Spurs, I just think, have this mentality that we're going to play our way out of it. But when you can't defend and you leave yourself open when you're doing that, you're going to lose games. And that's just what they're doing, losing games all the time.

42:52Dan Thomas:Do you want to add to this, Jan? No, I think the analysis is good. I'm just saying how funny in every league, every season you have a team that is too good to go down. And I think Tottenham is that team in the Premier League this season, based on a lot of factors. And you saw that with Nottingham Forest now. They know what to do. And they're organised. But man for man, if they've got to fit players back, Tottenham are a much, much better team. But that doesn't help in a relegation battle. You are too good to go down and you find yourself in the Championship. What a stadium that's going to be in the Championship next season.

43:28Dan Thomas:Not yet. Not yet. It ain't over yet, Jan. Okay, Gavin Jules will be talking a lot more about what we've seen over the weekend on the latest edition of their podcast. That dropped today wherever you get your podcasts.

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44:38Dan Thomas:And make sure to stay with us on ESPN Plus once the international break is over because we have the return of the FA Cup. We're at the quarterfinal stage and we've got some big games to enjoy. Man City against Liverpool, among them Chelsea Port Vale, Southampton Arsenal and West Ham against Leeds.

44:58Dan Thomas:Borussia Dortmund Sporting Director Sebastian Kael has departed his role at the club. These are the headlines. It says the Kael end in Dortmund. The big bang with Kael and a major shakeup in a trophy-less season is what we're seeing here. The feeling is that there's been some talks between himself and the board and that this is the right time for him to move on. What do you make of the news, Jan? Well, we've been talking about things that are going to change at Dortmund. We've seen some signals of this, what's going to happen in the summer. Julian Brandt not renewing his contract. So they kind of want to do some new things.

45:34But it was still the big surprise was that he was leaving with immediate effect. So Sebastian Kjell was on the bench on their game on Saturday. And Sunday he's gone, just gone on the day. And Sebastian Kjell is not a troublemaker. This is one of the good lads. But there's been a lot of politics in Dortmund. has always been that for the last year. Sebastian Kiel, sporting director. Lars Ricken, new CEO. Vatsk, the new president, used to be head of everything and he's still head of everything. You have Matthias Sommer hanging around there. And you've got, of course, a strong coach in Niko Kovac.

46:12But if you have a look at the table, they are doing well in the Bundesliga. They are absolutely the best of the rest. And then we had today the announcement they are going after all a book. Maybe not so known for everybody else, but he's been doing a fantastic job in Elfsberg. He took them to two promotional regionals, to the 3rd Liga, from 3rd Liga and 2nd Liga. And nearly went up last season when they lost the playoff against Heidenheim. And at this stage, they are second in the 2nd Liga. And he's going to start on Wednesday. So there is a lot of things that doesn't add up now. Why isn't he at Elvesburg for the rest of the season to get them in the Bundesliga?

46:54Why is KL, why so hurried to take him out now on Sunday, immediate take him away? I can only guess that it's to spend this time before the World Cup to build up the squad for next season. That's the only reason there is for me.

47:11Dan Thomas:And so the hope is to make them more competitive with Bayern once again, Jan? Yeah, which is very hard. And there's been a joke now, especially at Bayern. You know, Dortmund lost 4-1 at Atalanta. And everybody said, wow, Atalanta is a fantastic home team. So difficult to get there. And then Bayern came and won the first set 6-1 against them. And even Dresden in his speech after the game, he said, oh, it was supposedly a hard place to come. So Dortmund has been a big joke now in the last couple of weeks. But based on that Bayern Munich and Vincent Kompany having a great season, the season of Dortmund isn't that bad.

47:50I mean, they are way ahead of Leverkusen, Leipzig, Stuttgart, Hoffenheim. So it's not funny that they're changing. I think they want a new direction. They need a new identity. Remember, when Dortmund has been bathing, Stuttgart and Frankfurt has taken over the clothes and put them on to get young players in, develop them and sell them. This was what Dortmund used to do. Remember Bellingham, Haaland with Dembele and things like that. So I think this is also a signal of a new direction. Older Book has been very good at creating young players in Elfsberg and selling them. But we all know to go from Elfsberg to Dortmund, that is a big step for the young lad.

48:38Yeah, absolutely.

48:39Dan Thomas:Well, we'll keep our eye on it and see how it all plays out for the rest of the season. But thanks so much for keeping us up to date on that. You can, of course, catch the Bundesliga right here on ESPN+. And Borussia Dortmund will be back in action in a big game against Stuttgart on April the 4th. It's Freiburg that will host Bayern Munich as well when action returns.

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51:18Dan Thomas:Stick around, Jan. We've got some questions to answer on Extra Time. Stick around, you guys, as well, if you're watching us here on ESPN FC. We're not done yet. Extra Time is coming up right after this.

51:32Dan Thomas:Welcome into the latest edition of Extra Time. Shaka and Stevie are here in the studio. We've got Jan Agafjortov with us as well. Stevie said I look like an air stewardess today.

51:46I have to put on my glasses. Bing bong. I'm going to open my beer. That's the manual.

51:52Dan Thomas:Well, okay. Oh, boy. All right, first question. Percentage chance we see a three-points gap between Arsenal and Man City after they play each other. That's mid-April, right?

52:05Frank Leboeuf:I'd be down to...

52:06Dan Thomas:Do you have a little look at the fixtures? You know, City will drop points again.

52:12Frank Leboeuf:I think the gap will widen. You know, listen, again, City good in the Cup Final. For me, deservedly won the Cup Final. I agree. But then the last two games they drew with West Ham and Forest or something like that. I mean that's just kind of...

52:30Dan Thomas:They drew with West Ham, yeah.

52:31Frank Leboeuf:That's just been City's season, you know. So, good in the final, deserving champions. But I feel by the time those two get to whenever they meet each other...

52:43Dan Thomas:Okay, so when we come back from the international break, it's the FA Cup game from Man City and Liverpool.

52:48Frank Leboeuf:Right.

52:48Dan Thomas:Then in the Premier League, it's Chelsea away from Man City and then they're at home against Arsenal.

52:55Frank Leboeuf:Chelsea away.

52:57Dan Thomas:Yes. And then for Arsenal, when they come back, they're away to Southampton in the FA Cup. They've got Champions League games to play as well against Sporting in the quarterfinals. The next Premier League game would be at home to Bournemouth and then they face Man City. But they will have one, two, three, four games before that. I think there's more chance City's rotten points at Chelsea. then there is Arsenal dropping points at home to Bournemouth. Great. Fair enough. All right, now I've lost my questions while I was looking for the fixtures. All right, here they are. Please fasten your seatbelt.

53:34Please fasten your seatbelt before... Please switch off your phones. Close your window. No, that's different. Trade table stand. Open your window.

53:44Dan Thomas:Okay, Xhaka, which league currently has the best goalkeepers? The Premier League, La Liga, the Bundesliga or the Serie A?

53:51Frank Leboeuf:We had this question a few weeks ago. We did recently, didn't we? I said La Liga between John Garcia, who right now is incredible. I still think Tewo Kuto has the best in the world right now. From the strength of those two, I'm going to say La Liga.

54:06Dan Thomas:Okay. Stevie and Jan, did you have a foul and opposing player intentionally after the player was being a little too fancy with the ball, similar to what White did to Cherki in yesterday's cup final? Absolutely, 100%. Stevie, don't talk about Tom Sundby now when you played us in 1988. No, we won't talk about that. That was an accident. It was an accident. Yeah, it was an accident. But can I tell you about the story when I took Andy Mutch? I've told you before, but he annoyed me so much, my striking part. I couldn't score for Swindon, lost my self-confidence. And I told my wife when I went to training, because he was talking, it was in my head.

54:44He was in my head, this man. And I said to my wife today. Yeah, so today in training I'm gonna kick him so hard. And she said, you can't do that. Oh yeah, yeah, I can. So we came to training and I couldn't score and I didn't do anything in the Premier League. And then he passed me in a six against six game. And I kicked him so hard and he fell down and I kind of stamped on him when he was down. I was so mad at him. And then he stood up and said, that's what I want from you Jan. And from that day, he was my best mate in the team. So sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

55:18Dan Thomas:Yeah, sounds like it. Stevie, any that stand out? I would say the last time I did it, I remember, in a big game would be the UEFA Cup. I think the guy was Genoa, yeah. Yeah, my last game was Genoa, and this guy was getting clever. And he just, Cardinal sin for a player, right, for the opposition. So he's coming at me and he knocked it a little too far ahead of him. And so instinctively, he's got his eyes on the ball because he wants to get control of the ball, which meant that he opened himself up. So I just went through him, basically. I mean, I think about it now. It wasn't the smartest thing.

56:09I could have got sent half. But as I said, back, it was what, 92, that would be. And you got away with it. But yeah absolutely. What do you mean Steve, get away? When you start your career you can kill people without getting a look. It was interesting though, because if anybody in your team did that, everybody else would have a go at you. Because generally what happens is, although Scherke is the one taking the mick, it just wiles everybody up. and so basically it means the next time an opportunity arises regardless of who it is, they're getting it. Somebody's going to get it. So that would be the, you know, all our coaches would say hey, never mind doing that because you know it's going to happen.

56:55It's not going to be you because you would deserve it. Somebody else in your team is going to get it because of you. That's kind of how we looked at those situations.

57:03Dan Thomas:Fair game. Wasn't it the story with Jackie Charlton, the one World Cup winner for England? he had a list of people that you've got to take out in games he had a list he wrote them up so you shouldn't forget them when you play them I heard that about you players that there's like a little mental black book that the names are in there and even if it takes two or three games to see them again

57:26Frank Leboeuf:he had a book that was been late for years yeah well remember remember though when listen from when Jack Charlton played it's progressively got yeah better not as dirty but when Jack played I mean every centre forward here was the rules right back in the day the referee would let the centre half have the first one free so basically and it probably was still going on when Jan was playing when Jan started so basically the centre back would line you up the centre forward and go through the back of them for fun and the ref would go right you've had your one, no more. Unfortunately, if you're the centre forward, you're getting stretched off.

58:17Dan Thomas:Look at us laughing. So back then, centre forward looked after themselves just as much. Paul had like, Paul used to get like, you know in the snooker queue when you shine the end of the queue, he'd run in for his elbows. Before the game, he'd be shaking his elbows up so he could just ram somebody right in the nose. Yeah, but it's interesting because as a centre forward when you came to England and I came from Austria, I mean, one of my first games were in Liverpool. I played against Neil Ruddock. I mean, how do you protect yourself in the beginning of games? So the ball is coming like flying up to you and you know that the centre half will go through you.

58:59So how do you protect yourself? Because you can't go down like this. You have to do something, so you kind of need to have your elbow without doing like this, but you still got to protect yourself. Wow. So in the Jackie Charlton's time, they were even worse. I mean, it must be terrible. Tough guys, tough guys.

59:17Dan Thomas:Absolutely. Okay, Stevie, which three signings fix Liverpool? Oh,

59:23Frank Leboeuf:my God. Centre back.

59:29The thing is, you need more than three, but definitely a centre back. And quite frankly, I would suggest right now two attacking wingers. I mean, that's what a game is generally about. There's not many teams that get centre forwards anymore. They're all Mo Salah types. So one on the other side and a centre back. but Liverpool unfortunately looks like they need more than three.

59:57Dan Thomas:Might take a little bit more. Okay, Xhaka, what's the best prank that you've ever seen or done?

1:00:07Frank Leboeuf:Never done any. Probably one of the best that I've seen, we were in Marbella. We were somewhere in Spain.

1:00:20Frank Leboeuf:and down the end of the hall, boys were getting a little bit rowdy, it's my West Ham days, you know, getting a little bit loud and I can't remember who I was with, come banging on the door and just shouting stuff, well not in Spanish but it sounded like Spanish, banging on the door, finally off the door, Trevor Sinclair's hanging off the balcony, he thought it was the police, So whoever's back on your door is like, Policia! I start shouting and stuff. Trevor's hanging off the balcony. Trevor thought, we're done. Oh, we live way up. We live way up. I mean, if he falls, he's not going to die, but he's not playing next game.

1:01:05Frank Leboeuf:Trevor's hanging off the balcony. Honestly, I was, honestly, first thing comes to mind, I was so funny. It was so funny.

1:01:12Dan Thomas:That is, who was it?

1:01:15Frank Leboeuf:No, it was one of the other players. It was one of us. I can't remember who it was. It was one of the other players. It was just, we just kept like, come on, let's go wide.

1:01:24Dan Thomas:That's a good one, Stevie. You must have been on the end and started a few. I'll tell you the first thing that came to my mind, and you can cut a prank if you want, but we were falling off in Marbella. So we were down the beach, so we'd shed loads of ale down the beach. and there was a reporter who had just so there used to be like three or four reporters would go everywhere with you all the time whenever you were abroad and so this guy was new that was coming around with us and he came down to the beach and he started talking to everybody right so Alan Hanson started talking to him and anyway Alan Hanson invited him to play a game of buzz so the guy was trying to get in with everybody you know you just can't So the guy's like, oh yeah, absolutely.

1:02:13He's going, well, how would you play it? So big, I was like, yeah. So what you do is, you go around the table, and it's multiples of six, seven, or eight. And when it comes to you, and you're on the eighth one, you say, buzz, and if you get it wrong, you have to take the drink that's in the middle of the table. And he's like, oh yeah, that sounds great, aye, aye. Anyway, so Hanson was in charge. He had the last say on who got caught and who didn't. So there's about eight of us all sat around this chair, big umbrella up, beer in the middle, whole thing. And every single time the guy, hang on, every single good time he said anything, I went, ah.

1:02:57And of course the guy was trying to get in, he went, oh yeah, that's a you, yeah, until he was like, ah, anyway. About three hours later, we left the beach. This guy, we propped him up. You know the pool, the showers? yeah it's the metal pole with a shower with propped him up against the shower he's hit he was like that and the shower was on because we kept pressing the hang and he'd been sick and he was like sick on him and we're pressing the shower and all the water and he's like and we're like see you later he was absolutely sick oh god Oh, it was cool. Oh, boy. I should have kicked to my head when you said that.

1:03:41Dan Thomas:Have you got any, Jan? Well, I don't think I've told this story before. It's about your favourite John Henry at Midnsboro. Oh, my favourite Borough player when I was growing up. Yeah, I will take it, but I'll try to make it decent. So, we're in Gran Canaria. Canaria. Canaries, what do you say in English? Canary Islands. Canary Islands. And we were sitting there, and the boys found out that they're going to have a national game between Scotland and England, a drinking competition, who can drink most. So, I'll take the short version, Jamie Pollock against John Henry. And the problem was that Jamie Pollock didn't drink and John Henry didn't know that.

1:04:23So he had to win. And let's put it this way, Scotland won. They had a fantastic win. And they took into the to the to the bedroom and next morning and i was thinking i hope hopefully survive i mean and then john henry came down for breakfast uh they had they had cut his eyebrow the eyebrows were gone they made him bold here and they were writing things right there so we went to when we went to the training session and they have written on his back something as well i won't say what was set and and and Viv Anderson and Brian Robson let us train without our top on so everybody could see this and and when we came back to the hotel after the training of course John Henry slept in on in in in mid in the sun and our boys and girls I can tell you why we have eyebrows is to protect us for the sun and John Henry got the eyes like all over and when we were on the flight back to England, Nigel Pearson convinced John Henry, I'm starting laughing now, convinced him that it was better that he used a black marker to make his eyebrows.

1:05:43So he came home to his missus with all these kind of eyebrows all over the place with a black marker. Coincidentally, by the way we lost against Chelsea 5-0 the game after. Nobody talked about that.

1:06:05Dan Thomas:Love that Jan, I need to share that with a few of the Borough fans.

1:06:08Frank Leboeuf:Yeah do that.

1:06:10Dan Thomas:All right thank you so much guys for answering the questions on the latest edition of Extra Time. Make sure to join us tomorrow and we'll be doing the same thing all over again. And please leave your safe belt on windows.

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