Carrick's First Stumble

17:51Dan Thomas:I think you being charitable calling it a window, to be honest, because there's still so many issues as well and the amount of time for the position of it now, the players have to buck up. As Craig said, it's not just the manager. It's some of those players you can hear when certain people get the ball. The crowd are not having them. They're not keen to see them. They just don't have any belief in them whatsoever. And it can bring a new manager to the sideline. It could be the biggest personality ever. It could be the rah-rah guy that says, come on, get stuck in. But if players don't marry up to that, then it's not going to work out anyway.

18:21Dan Thomas:I think across all the years, we've seen so many different profiles of manager go to Spurs. you know somebody that's seen more character attacking football like a Nuno you know like the dominant guy like a Conte dominant like a Mourinho someone soft like soft like a Frank you know you've got Pochettinos and trying to figure out what the right thing is for that club with those fans and those players has proved to be very very tricky and Thomas Frank is here now and you can almost sense the doubt that so many of them have in how his style of play works but then it is made worse by the sheer number of injuries that they have but still you would expect with the players that they can put out with the 11 that they put out you should be expecting more again today against the newcastle side that have been terrible away from home results wise for the whole season and again that's another team that's in the champions league so okay i suppose the thread is there what what is the value of the champions league to the english teams when they can perform so badly domestically but yeah i think you could change your manager sure but is it still these players going to play that game against arsenal i don't think they become any less of an underdog and you could say well just just bed in you know try and don't do a low block and hit on the counter-attack but as you've seen in recent weeks they're not very good at doing that either so i guess for me you're just gonna have to stick with it and hope that they can just perform out

19:29Shaka Hislop:their skins in one particular game let's just take a look let's just remind you of how things stand at the bottom obviously walls and burnley are out of the conversation i think that's fair to say they'll be in the championship next season west ham of course have butt their ideas up but have they butt them up enough to be able to guarantee safety for next season nottingham forest are in that fight of course and Spurs aren't they Robbie we're not being since Robert we're not being

19:50Frank Leboeuf:sensationalist here no absolutely not if you look at the history there's always one or quite often there's one club that halfway through the season they're doing quite well and suddenly they crash I was at Wimbledon as the youth team coach when they lost their last 19 out of 20 games and they went down from being in six in the table I thought Crystal Palace might be that side this season because they were tumbling until they got their win against Brighton at the weekend and Tottenham are in a really dangerous situation at the moment. They're not going to beat Arsenal, I wouldn't think. Then confidence will be really low.

20:23Frank Leboeuf:They might change the manager after that and get a bit more comments for the crowd or the crowd might get behind the team a bit more. But at the moment, and Craig said it, when you don't win games, you just don't see where the next win's coming from. How are we going to stop this? How are we going to stop the rot? You know, we're not defending particularly well. We're not scoring enough goals. We're not playing particularly well. The crowd are on our backs. When is the next win coming? and I can't see it at the moment for Tottenham so they're right in it.

20:47Shaka Hislop:What about West Ham, Greg? Have you seen enough from them over the last few weeks to think that they can get out of it or they will get out of it?

20:55Stewart Robson:They have to find ways to grind out some clean sheets. Points matter. And they got one today but it could have been three. But as it goes along you have to be able to get out the relegations on yeah, wins are great. Of course they are. But you have to be out of these games where you're getting a bit of a battering, you have to wait to grind out a point. Five or six points here and there are going to make the difference. And if they don't do that, they could go. Forest are a concern at the moment. Now, they're playing Wolves tomorrow, the worst team in the Premier League and some. But they're not playing well.

21:27Stewart Robson:And they're at home. And the crowd, they are baying for blood there. And they have an owner who could pull the trigger at any time. Could pull the trigger at any time. But if they do win, and West Ham win their next game, and if we presume that Arsenal will beat Tottenham and there's no other way to go at the moment, they could be two points above the relegation zone. Leeds are not out of it, but the one thing I'd say about Leeds, they've got pace about the game, they've got aggression, they've got physicality, and they will roll their sleeves up under Daniel Farke, and they will fight. The question is, do the others have that fight and are they willing to do it?

22:07Stewart Robson:So if you're fascinated by the bottom... Who says you?

22:11Shaka Hislop:Which is the other side that will go down?

22:16Shaka Hislop:I think Forrest could go this year. Your grandson supports Forrest. Your family do.

22:24Stewart Robson:I thought, I just think there's a lot of negativity around. I think Nuno, who ironically the Forrest manager, they fell out. I think he fell out with Edu. after he came in from Arsenal. Edu had Maranakis' ear. All got messy. Ironically, he goes to West Ham. It's probably going to be them two, and maybe Spurs, maybe Leeds. But it's ironic that he could be the manager after that explosive press conference and about not getting support and Maranakis firing them when he got them to the Champions League, I got them into Europe. He could be the one. So you say Forrest? To set them down. At the moment, I think Forrest are completely shell-shocked and out of form.

23:08Stewart Robson:Who do you say, Natham?

23:14Dan Thomas:For some reason, I've seen a lot of West Ham recently, and the recency bias is going to have me say that West Ham are going to stay up. So I think I'm with Craig at this moment in time, thinking that unless Forrest finds some magic, I think it could be there. You wanted me to say Tottenham.

23:28Stewart Robson:You've only got one left.

23:29Shaka Hislop:What do you mean? I don't want you to say Tottenham. I just can't believe you've done that to your grandson. Robert?

23:36Frank Leboeuf:I hate to have to agree with both of them because West Ham, I think, will get enough points. They've got the confidence behind them at the moment, even though they didn't win the game today. The crowd believe. I know a lot of West Ham supporters, they believe in. They want to go to the games now. They think West Ham are going to be in a good run. So I think Nottingham Forest, having seen them the last two or three times, I don't think they're a particularly good team. So I think they're the side to go down.

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25:40Shaka Hislop:Interesting game at Stamford Bridge. Chelsea completely dominated the opening hour against Leeds with a 2-0 lead to Al Pedro. Cole Palmer from the penalty spot, given the host the advantage, but then a penalty would be conceded. Leeds would score it and Okaful then get the equaliser. Some controversy in the equaliser. There was a handball in the build-up. However, the referee and Vard didn't feel it was enough to chalk off the goal. Cole Palmer with a huge chance late on. He would put it over the bar and in the end it finishes. Chelsea 2, Leeds 2. Nadeem Robbo is still with us. Robbo, this is a weird game to look back at really because Chelsea did everything right but win it, if that makes sense.

26:19Frank Leboeuf:well in the first half they did the first 60 minutes they were miles better than Leeds they played some really good football Cole Palmer was at a free roll he could go on the left he could go on the right he was finding space in behind the centre forward Jao Pedro was making some great runs Enzo Fernandes was getting involved as well they were playing little balls around the corner everything was going right for Chelsea and Leeds didn't look as though they had any sort of threat going forward and it all changed with the penalty and suddenly Leeds started getting balls in behind and the two young centre-halves couldn't deal with it and they brought on Harto at half-time, the left-back and they didn't deal with two or three balls that were played over the top and threw a couple of balls that were played up to the front players and suddenly Chelsea started to panic.

26:57Frank Leboeuf:Then, when Leeds got to 2-0, they dropped off and allowed Chelsea to play again and Neto produced a couple of brilliant crosses that nearly went in at the far post. Obviously, that miss by Palmer. Chelsea deserved to win it, there's no doubt about that because really, Leeds only had about a 15-minute period in the game but it's a wasteful evening for Chelsea.

27:17Shaka Hislop:Yeah, wasteful, good way to describe it considering the chances they had in the first half.

27:21Stewart Robson:Yeah, but when you let teams in with silly challenges, I mean, you see, Kaysido gets a lot of praise and rightly so, does a lot of things well but he does a lot of rash stuff. Fortunately for him and Chelsea, most of the rash stuff he does is in the middle of the park but that's the kind of challenge he goes in for a lot and when you go in for those kind of challenges in the penalty area, you're running a huge risk particularly in the game that you're winning 2-0, when you don't need to do that and you've got a defender there. It's not last-minute desperation. You don't have to dive in. And that's the little things that he does, along with his discipline at times.

27:55Stewart Robson:I think that he's still a great player, but there's still facets of his game that he needs to brush up on. And sometimes that decision-making... And he's a brilliant winner of the ball back in the middle of the park. He is. But that doesn't make you a brilliant winner of the ball back in the penalty area. That's where you really have to use your head and think a bit more about lunging into challenges. And that really, as Robbo said, got Leeds back up and running and put Chelsea back, as the subs came on, put Chelsea back on the back foot just a little bit. A back foot that they were never on at any point up until the penalty.

28:30Stewart Robson:So bad decision making and then a little bit of nerves and then a bit of good spell from Leeds. Daniel Farke made some changes, a bit of pace and power about the game. and Chelsea threw away, which looked like at one point it was going to be a pretty comfortable three points.

28:44Shaka Hislop:Manchester City did the right thing, getting rid of that Cole Palmer and Aydan.

28:48Dan Thomas:Oh, it's rubbish, especially with an open goal from two yards out. That's why they need to get rid of him. It's nonsense. But yeah, you know, it's good to see him back and in better health. And obviously he's scored three penalties in two games, but the fact that he's stepping up with the confidence and doing it, and it seems like his link-up with João Pedro is going pretty well so far. They did well in the Champions League a couple of weeks ago, and you can see that they're kind of on the same wavelength. But that miss there, like, with all due respect to Cole Palmer, he looks like his special subject is football in terms of his mind and the way he talks.

29:17Dan Thomas:And him just wraps up in the net looking all confused. It's basically just, that's just such a great picture to just explain just him. The fact that he wasn't able to finish that sums up that game for Chelsea. They should obviously have won, should never have been 2-2 and they should have just had that as a tap-in to see things through. But I suppose that's the Chelsea way, and make it as tricky and as confusing as possible going forward?

29:37Stewart Robson:I dare say if he plays for another 10 years and he's scored some great goals, obviously, you know, three kicks, top corner, you name it, he may never have an easier opportunity ever again in his career to put the ball in the back of the net and certainly not one to win a match later on at the day. That's kind of... And I know it took a little bounce as it came across, but we're talking about elite level players here. We're talking about, I'll be kind to him, three yards out, two or three yards out, and it's quite difficult to scoop the ball from that distance over the bar, and he managed to do it, so he's going to be feeling pretty lousy about that tonight, but I've seen it happen to a lot of good players, but he's a good technician.

30:24Stewart Robson:I'm actually shocked it was him that missed such an easy chance.

30:27Shaka Hislop:Robbo, Craig didn't have a problem with that goal being given. Rosinha does he says that the boys saw the handball and they stopped playing which gave Leeds the

30:36Frank Leboeuf:advantage well the answer is don't stop playing you carry on to the place of the whistle don't you I mean what a ridiculous comment that is by Liam Rosinha you know the players stopped so it allowed Leeds to go and score the goal ridiculous comments you know he should be advising his players he should be having to go at his players for carrying on playing and they didn't stop anyway they just didn't defend it very well as they didn't for that 15 minutes or so but you also have to question the Chelsea mentality because quite often they've had a fairly structured centre-half partnership. Again, they changed the back four again.

31:09Frank Leboeuf:They changed the back two centre-halves and they didn't play anywhere near as well as some of the other partnerships that they've had. So if you keep changing the team, you won't get that defensive structure right at any point.

31:21Shaka Hislop:Nademi says they switched off the players because of the handball?

31:26Dan Thomas:Let's be honest. It's like everybody that's played pro, played wherever, you know, played in a park, played jumpers for goalposts, people say play to the whistle. So I think the fact that like the manager of a Premier League team is saying the reason he shouldn't have been given is because his players stopped because they thought it was handball. He's like, it's a bit ridiculous. I don't get the quickness of what he's trying to say in this instance because the players will know that they can't do that. And ultimately, like the ref didn't make the decision. So just play on. It's ridiculous. And I think it leads to probably the most stupid goal of the season for me.

31:56Dan Thomas:the fact that the ball's just ricocheting here someone's throwing himself here, throwing themselves there and the ball just rolls out to the Leeds player there you go, so yeah, if it's because they start I guess that's what you deserve, you play to the whistle or, you know what I mean, don't play at all, come sit on the bench

32:08Stewart Robson:Well to be fair, they do have quite a few referees in their team, don't they, Chelsea, they're one of the worst They love them out They're one of the worst, they're not alone but they're one of the worst, Enzo Fernandes Kai Cedar, Kukarela the list goes on they try to referee the game all the time So, and as the boys said, I mean, I can't say much more. I'm kicking lumps out of people and I'm launching the ball out of play until that referee's whistle goes. And that's the modern game. And that was the game 10 years ago. That was the game 20 years ago. That was the game 30 years ago. You played to the whistle.

32:41Stewart Robson:Never, never, ever in the history of the game has there been a time more important to play to the whistle than now because these incidents that happen around a penalty area that could have a consequence of a goal are usually let go to run in case a goal is scored and then it can be rechecked rather than the other way around. Rather than stop it and then go, oh, there's nothing wrong with that, I wish they hadn't stopped it. So the modern-day player knows, particularly when you're around the penalty area, that unless it is absolutely cast iron, and that wasn't, the referee and the assistants are going to let moves go just in case a goal is scored and then they can recheck it.

33:26Stewart Robson:That's the way the game is refereed these days and somebody needs to tell some of these Chelsea players if indeed they stop because they heard the whistle or they thought it was going to be a free kick which I think is a lot of toshy anyway. I don't think they did.

33:39Shaka Hislop:Action continues tomorrow. Liverpool taking on Sundern. This is the Liverpool side who have conceded the most 90th-minute winners in the history of the Premier League, along with some other names. Of course, this was at the end of the season for them. There's still a third of this season to go. Arnaud Slott was asked about those late goals conceded in his press conference today.

34:01Nedum Onuoha:The amount of times that we conceded late goals in extra time

34:07Stewart Robson:is far more than usual. The question is, is it bad luck or are we to blame? I think I've tried many different things, I've made defensive substitutions and the ball went in and I kept playing the same players and the ball went in. So we've tried a lot and sometimes it feels... I can fairly say that we haven't been lucky, that is definitely true.

34:29Shaka Hislop:Given all the setbacks and hits and the bad luck, how challenging has the season been for you personally? Would you say it's one of the toughest, if not the toughest you've ever had?

34:38Nedum Onuoha:Yeah, that's fair to say. By a mile.

34:42Stewart Robson:Because all the other seasons I've managed, there were only positives. I don't think I've ever lost two games in a row.

34:50Shaka Hislop:In terms of making this an acceptable season, do you have to ensure there is Champions League football here next season?

34:56Nedum Onuoha:Acceptable?

35:00Nedum Onuoha:Yes. If we don't have Champions League football, it's definitely not been an acceptable season.

35:07Frank Leboeuf:You took the model of sustainability, that relies so much on if that would have an impact on the summer plans and everything else.

35:14Stewart Robson:That's what I said, when I arrived here we could only sign Federico Chiesa and that was after Europa League season. So that does have an enormous impact in the way this club is run. So that is clear, I'm completely aware of that.

35:35Shaka Hislop:This is Liverpool so far in the calendar year Just a one win, four draws, two defeats Obviously the latest being against Manchester City What stood out from that press conference Robbo?

35:48Frank Leboeuf:That he knows that he's under a little bit of pressure But he's an honest manager, that's what you can say He's not trying to disguise it What he did say is that he tried to make substitutions at the end of games Defensive substitutions, which I disagree with But then he went on to say, but I've also tried to keep the same team on and I've conceded goals there. But his honesty, I think he realises that not everybody's behind him now. If you listen to the supporters, they're not all behind him now. They're sort of looking at Xavi Alonso and things like that. But he needs a good end to the season.

36:15Frank Leboeuf:I hope he has a good end to the season because I think he's a good manager. He seems a good character. And I'd like to see him succeed because he's the sort of manager you want in the Premier League.

36:23Stewart Robson:I'm going to tell you why they're losing all these late goals. And he's not going to see it. because he doesn't want to upset his players, and I get that. It's not bad luck. It's bad defending. It's bad game management. It's bad substitutions. That's why you're losing goals. You don't lose goals. You might lose the odd one because somebody scuttles one in and there's a huge deflection and you can't do anything about it. But that's not Liverpool. It's bad defending. And you look at the other teams in the graphic that were losing goals in the 19th minute. They're pretty much all teams that were relegated.

37:01Stewart Robson:Relegation teams, the Watfords, the Southamptons. I think West Ham 21-22. I don't know if they were relegated that season or not. But he's not going to come out and say that. And I get that. He's not going to be saying, well, why are you losing the late goal? And he's going to say, defenders are crap. He can't say that. He just can't because that's just going to be a powder keg in the dressing room. But we know it's not unlucky. They have not managed games, well, they haven't managed games well for the most part, over 90 minutes. But in these moments, whether it's for a point or whether it's for three points, they haven't managed the game well and any balls forward, when teams are getting desperate and they're lumping balls into the box, and that's what some teams do, particularly when you've got teams fighting a relegation dogfight, and they can sniff or draw at Anfield, they'll just bung a few people forward and lump it in there.

37:54Stewart Robson:and Liverpool haven't dealt with it. Van Dijk hasn't dealt with it. Kanati hasn't dealt with it. Kierkegaard. You know, all these players, whether it be Gomez or Sabozlai right back, I mean, they get caught in the Man City game and this really, I suppose, in some way isn't his fault. But Sabozlai is the one that plays Bernardo Silva onside because he's not a natural fullback. And it's not in his instinct to step up like a defender and he plays everybody onside. So that scenario is not really his fault. because he hasn't got many other players to play right back at the moment. But in terms of the other late goals, it's bad defending.

38:31Shaka Hislop:And it's Sunderland on Wednesday, Nadem. Of course, a place you know well. And of course, a team that have won many plaudits considering what they've achieved so far this season. It's going to be a proper game, isn't it?

38:42Dan Thomas:Yeah, it should be really, really good. I think in the game, Sunderland's game against Arsenal on the weekend, they were really, really competitive. Arsenal had to work hard for that victory. And in the end, it's 3-0 and it feels like it's comfortable. but it was far from that. But I think what I would say is Sunderland at home, I think they're still unbeaten. So this Liverpool side going up there, the Sunderland fans will be more than ready for it. They'll be excited to see how the team competes against it. Sunderland's issues tend to be with creativity, but it's going to be a battle. And as Craig has been saying there, and as you've seen with some of those late goals, sometimes teams are just throwing it forward and they're making it physical.

39:14Dan Thomas:We saw Sunderland score a late goal with Brian Broby against Arsenal just a couple of months ago. So as Liverpool arrive, it's going to be physical. There's going to be good football played, I'm sure. We're going to make sure they try and bring Liverpool down to play their game as opposed to Liverpool trying to focus on theirs. And there's going to be a ton of belief that Sunderland can get those three points, but we shall see.

39:33Shaka Hislop:We indeed will. Just take a look then at all the fixtures that are coming up on Wednesday in the Premier League. We've got Sunderland against Liverpool. As Craig mentioned, Nottingham Forest taking on the walls, a big test for Sean Dyche and his future at the club. Palace Burnley, Villa Brighton and Manchester City play host to Fulham.

39:53Shaka Hislop:And of course, we've got the FA Cup this weekend. It all starts on Friday. Hull taking on Chelsea. Saturday, sees the likes of Villa take on Newcastle, Liverpool, Brighton. And Sunday, Arsenal against Wigan.

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41:31Shaka Hislop:Meanwhile, do you remember this from the weekend? It went viral, of course, because of the reaction of the defender. Leonard Carl here trying some skill. It all goes wrong. Thumbs up from the defender. Company was asked about it ahead of Bayern's polkao match tomorrow.

41:48Nedum Onuoha:I'm not going to start punishing my players for doing step-overs. What am I going to tell Michael Olisse? What am I going to tell Lucho Diaz? A lot of people come to the stadium for this. Unfortunately, when you miss it, I still think, though, for wingers, it's still easy. A defender, if you miss something, it's going in your own goal. For a goalkeeper, if you miss something, it's going in your own goal. For him, he missed something and he went out for a goal kick. So that's why attacking players can try a little bit more than defensive players. And I encourage them. If I see a sign of arrogance or disrespect to the opposition team, nobody needs to say anything.

42:29Nedum Onuoha:I will say something. But in that moment, it's not what I felt. It's just unlucky. And they showed probably every goal he scored 250 ,000 times on social media. And, you know, it goes both ways. We can't escape it.

43:14Shaka Hislop:Saturday that's at 3 p.m. Eastern 2 30 Eastern is when the coverage starts on

43:19Stewart Robson:ESPN plus and why do you think he's wrong because I don't think he was at any point trying to beat the defender he was just chucking step overs without going anywhere I just think he was over cocky okay did that goal by the way beat the thing on the Monday king of the no no it didn't didn't know the service like old didn't it didn't know what Muppets were on yesterday I weren't

43:41Shaka Hislop:watching you should watch oh sorry yeah exactly uh stay tuned next time tonight

43:51Shaka Hislop:welcome in to the latest edition of the extra time craig burley is with us in the studio we

43:55Stewart Robson:also welcome stuart robson just hearing on that what do you call that thing the king of the king of the pitch king of the pitch yeah i've done a few i should know king of the pitch yeah i've just

44:04Shaka Hislop:been on the slide number one it didn't make it through he didn't no dimbelli still this no someone else took over from Dembele it was like a Roberto Carlos S free kick remember that from out um not free kick sorry volley from outside the box from back in the day kind of and it was better than yes well I had the deciding vote why because there was only three on something that should never happen you should never be allowed to be involved we've had a lot of questions a lot of comments about the man who has been growing his hair of course until Manchester United win five in a row today was supposed to be the day and it never happened obviously at finishing 1-1 in the end uh native is he ever going to be able to cut his hair

44:50Dan Thomas:probably not my lifetime though but to be honest it's good for him you know what i mean he can extend that he can extend his sort of like fame a bit longer because when he cuts his hair everyone will be like oh look here's this actual normal guy what's he going to talk about now i know so yeah in some ways i'm happy that he's got the chance to continue chasing it

45:06Shaka Hislop:This is right up your alley, isn't it, Robbo, following this story, I'm sure?

45:10Frank Leboeuf:Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I know all about this story. I mean, who cares, really? Someone with no hair, I mean, yeah, I mean, anything about hair, I don't really want to talk about.

45:23Stewart Robson:What's the story?

45:24Shaka Hislop:So, he's grown his hair. Yeah, no, I've seen a picture. Okay. So, obviously, for the last 430 days or whatever it is, it's been growing because he made a promise that he was only going to cut it when United won five in a row. and it's gone viral. It's very...

45:39Stewart Robson:This is the trouble.

45:40Shaka Hislop:Well, no, it's not. It's a nice... Don't speak negative about this. It's quite a nice thing. It's not. It's... It's... It's... He's not hurting anyone. He's helping people with everything. Let me tell you what it is. It's attention-seeking 2.0. I don't know. I think it's nice. It's nice. The world now is full of attention-seekers. I think for this one, seems to be quite a nice one. He seems a nice chap. Yeah, but I'm sure he is a nice chap. He's nothing better to do.

46:05Stewart Robson:Well, I'm these hell... You go on social media and go, I'm still not cutting it. As Robbo said, all right, call us a couple of old curmudgeons. Yes, I will. But it's just attention-seeking. I mean, we got the FC Twitter account posting out and all that. They got nothing better to do. I'm sure. Post some decent stuff out, for God's sake. People care. People care about it. Clickbait. Absolute clickbait. Well, it's not clickbait, is it? Clickbait. No. Anyway, we didn't know how to do it. Anyway.

46:33Shaka Hislop:Another Fergie time goal. What will it take from Carrick to become the manager next season?

46:41Stewart Robson:Well, I don't know. Look, you have to. You don't get carried away. And I agree with what Salam Shaka said a week or so ago. He said, United here have made such a mess of the last few years, both in recruitment of players and running the club. Well, basically just running the club. as well as management appointments. And they have to be ruthless, and Xhaka said that. They have to be ruthless. If they turn every stone and they decide that Michael Carrick has done a good enough job, that's their decision. But whilst he is doing a good job at the moment, if that continues to the end of the year, they still have to turn every stone and say, what are our options?

47:24Stewart Robson:Not just sit and go, oh, Carrick's just doing... Oh, he's won seven out of nine now and he's done this and he's done... Let's not even look around, which I'm sure they are looking around. I mean, if they're not, people should be fired. So no matter how well he... And I don't know what the guys think, but no matter how well he is doing, you still have to be looking at all the other options out there. And if you think that other option, be it a much more experienced manager, is going to be better, then you have to let him go at the end of the season. It's not a fairytale story. it's a multi-million corporate football club playing with the big boys so if they turn all those stones and they still say it's him that's their decision

48:09Shaka Hislop:The argument that Mark Ogden puts forward Robbo is why they should do it sooner rather than later is because for example if you hang around for Thomas Tuchel after the World Cup you've missed out on a big chunk of time to be able to build a squad to sign players that you need to play a certain system

48:27Frank Leboeuf:Yeah, I suppose you could say that but at the moment I would give Michael Couric that little bit longer to see if it's just not a flash in the pan and it's just a change of manager and he's doing okay but remember they've made some bad decisions keeping Eric Ten Hag when they definitely didn't want him and because they won the cup final they said, oh yeah, we'll keep him for a little bit longer and everybody knew he was going to get the sack after a couple of months then they get Ameren who they must have done their homework on but he obviously wasn't the manager for them because he was stubborn He didn't want to do what everybody thought he should be doing.

48:57Frank Leboeuf:He stuck to the same system. He didn't get the best out of the players. And he impressed Crumpets as he almost wanted to get himself the sack. So they've made bad decisions before. I think they've got to give themselves enough time, as Craig said, to lift every stone up, have a look underneath. What is the best manager they can get for the style of football they want and the style of club they're trying to run? That's what they've got to do. They've got to wait a little bit longer, I think.

49:19Shaka Hislop:Nathan, you're nodding in agreement.

49:22Dan Thomas:No, I'm nodding but it's more so because I think with Carrick being in there now, I think this is a good case study for the people who are going to be appointing the next manager. Because you look at the players who are already there and the ones who could be there for another one, two, three years and think, is Carrick getting the best out of them? Are the players getting better? And if they are, why is that? What is he doing that's making those players perform to a better standard? If it's about, say, the way he's a head coach or it's about the motivational thing, with Carrick's not going to be the best guy going forward.

49:50Dan Thomas:then maybe now they're looking for a manager who also has those traits because for example you could bring in a dictator for next season and maybe the player's performance will dip you know but instead it seems like here's somebody who's coaching the players let's give them a style of play which they like which they enjoy which can buy into there's a boost in confidence and it seems more than anything that you stick into the football side of things you know maybe that's the profile manager that they do want next and if they can't find somebody that's of a bigger status than or whatever than Michael Carrick that has that style, then maybe Michael Carrick is your man because I think it's fair to say that, you know, in these recent weeks we've seen them play better than we probably have done in perhaps two or three years.

50:27Stewart Robson:What they don't want is another manager like Amarim who comes in and says, I play 3-4-3 and that's it and all about it. Because no manager does that. Some make more tweaks than others. Some make more changes than others. But all managers make changes and are flexible. Otherwise you're just going out buying players, you're only buying wing backs because you're always playing with wing backs. You're buying centre-halves that are better at playing a three. It doesn't work like that. Yeah, you have a framework of what you want to work under. Most of it nowadays is a back four. There was a bit of a craze, I would say probably in the mid to late 90s.

51:04Stewart Robson:I certainly remember when I was playing. There was a bit of a craze about back threes and it went away for a bit and then it sort of came back. but it feels like most managers play with a back four. And that's the sort of base to go forward, and then they rotate the midfield and the front line in front of that. So that gives you flexibility. What you don't want is another manager that says, I have basically no flexibility. Get me that player and that player. And then when it's not working, he's up the creek without a paddle. And that's where Amarim was.

51:33Shaka Hislop:Sticking with United, Robbo, as Sesco demonstrate he's more effective as a super sub or a starter.

51:41Frank Leboeuf:Well, Craig mentioned it in the show when he came on, he didn't play particularly well. The ball went up to him four or five times. He lost control of it. He got turned and had one shot before he scored the goal. It was a good finish. He hasn't done enough when he's played, when he's started games. You know, if you're going to be the main centre forward, you've got to run in behind, you've got to hold the play up, you've got to score goals. Has he done that well enough? I don't think so. And Bermot, when he's playing through the middle, has made more dynamic runs. he's been more threatening and I'm not sure but he's scored more goals but he's looked a much better player so at the moment I think he's a super sub rather than a starter.

52:16Shaka Hislop:Is the new manager phase over for Rossignac? Oh hold on a minute come on I mean listen I've been a little

52:27Stewart Robson:critical of his sort of rhetoric and they sort of try to bamboozle with certain words but his His results, bearing in mind he's a relatively inexperienced coach. You thought I was going to say a young man. No, no. I'm staying away from that. His result, yeah, that's a disappointing result. There's no doubt about it, particularly from 2-0 up and at home and against one of the weaker teams, albeit a team that's got a lot of fight in Leeds. But actually, since he's come in, he's had a lot of good results. Absolutely, and they're playing better. First half, they played really good football today.

53:01Shaka Hislop:I mean, that's going out of traps way too ill. Nadem, is it really a poor season for City if they can beat Liverpool at Anfield, finish top eight in the Champions League and still keep the pressure on Arsenal in two major trophies?

53:22Dan Thomas:Poor season. I think the Champions League thing, the fact that they are in the top eight, that's mission accomplished, isn't it? It wasn't exactly the most beautiful thing in the world to see, but they did manage to functionally do it. I think the fact that they are in eighth will cause probably some issues further forward, further down the road. And as for the league itself, I think the fact is they're not in control. You know, if Arsenal win the games that they need to win and more importantly, win that game against Man City in a couple of months' time, then the title will likely be there. So City aren't favourites in that either.

53:50Dan Thomas:So, you know, this League Cup game, League Cup final against Arsenal could go either way. So in some ways, it hasn't been a vintage Man City season because we've seen so many imperfections, but they're still technically involved. So yeah, I think it's not poor. I just don't think it's got the same sort of energy behind it right now as, say, we've seen in other years where they finish the season off really well.

54:10Shaka Hislop:Very nervous. All the energy in that answer. Very negative.

54:14Stewart Robson:It'd be a surprise if Arsenal didn't win the league and it would be a surprise if Man City did. Yeah. And I kind of think that's where we are. I think if they finish second, which they probably will, I don't think that would be a bad season. I think that's just a reflection of where they are and maybe a reflection of the manager's time coming to an end. Not coming to an end because he's a bad manager, coming to an end because he's probably lost a bit of energy for the job and all the changes and frustrations that go with it. So, yeah, I mean, in terms of what they've achieved, second is ultimately losing.

54:49Stewart Robson:But I kind of think that's where they are, particularly when you look at Arsenal's squad. I think most other managers wouldn't even have City to be fair where they are in the league. The fact that Ellen Hallin scored all those goals and then didn't, and then obviously it was that big result at the weekend again, but I just don't see them going all the way with Arsenal.

55:11Shaka Hislop:Final question for you, Robbo. You're setting up a Robbo FC team. Who would you rather have as their manager? Conte, Mourinho or Simeone?

55:22Frank Leboeuf:Well, on his record, I'd go with Conte.

55:25Shaka Hislop:Well, and his record in Europe's terrible.

55:27Frank Leboeuf:Well, yeah, I'm talking about winning Serie A on a couple of occasions, winning the Premier League with Chelsea in his first season. He's done it everywhere. He's been apart from Tottenham and even did well with the Italian side when it was an absolutely bad bunch of players. He's never done it in Europe, though, hasn't he, Robbo?

55:44Shaka Hislop:Never done it in Europe.

55:46Frank Leboeuf:He's never done it in Europe, no, no, but I'm always about winning the league and worry about Europe at another date. So I would go with Conte first.

55:52Shaka Hislop:I knew he was going to say Conte. He loves Conte.

55:54Stewart Robson:No, well, I think Conte at the moment is more, you know, if you're talking about recency bias, Simeone's struggling, has been for a couple of years. They get the odd spectacular result. Mourinho is definitely, you know, he's looking at international football, isn't he? But I think if you look at them when they're all in their pomp, it's Mourinho. You know, winning the Europa League with Porto, and then what did he do? He went to Real Madrid. He won it next year, won the league. Chelsea, sorry, then Real Madrid. Won the league with Inter Milan, I believe won the Champions League with Inter Milan.

56:29Stewart Robson:So I think at the time he was, as he called himself, he was pretty special. But that's certainly, you know, if you're hiring a manager now between Mourinho and Conte, it would be Conte. Inter then Real Madrid, I got that wrong. Surprise. Shouldn't have jumped in. You're not sure. Don't buzz unless you know the answer. Simeone, my God, I mean, he's, I mean he's done some really good things at Atletico Madrid but I suppose I say the style of football because the style of football the other play isn't always great but I just feel that I don't know, that success feels like a long time away Yeah it does Nidam, do you have an opinion on this?

57:11Dan Thomas:Yeah, I'd go for Jules Mourinho like Jules Mourinho in his prime and also, did he win the Champions League with Porto? Or am I making that up? Yes Is that 2004? Oh sorry, I'm getting mixed up

57:20Stewart Robson:because he won the Europa League against Celtic and then the next year won the Champions League. You're right.

57:27Shaka Hislop:Yes.

57:27Stewart Robson:You're right.

57:28Shaka Hislop:There you go. Yeah. And he won the Champions League with the inside. Brian Mourinho for me all day long. I wondered if it was a bye. Robbo, does that change your mind?

57:37Frank Leboeuf:In their pomp. I think you asked me about now, didn't you? And I would say Conte was the manager I'd put in now.

57:42Shaka Hislop:Gee, there's always a note. Exactly. Especially with Robbo. And that is it. Very nice. That brings us the end of today's show. Oh, we're going to play King of the Pit, shall we? Yeah, I want to see it, right. I want to see it. All right. Okay. Here we go. So this is Lauper's goal. Oh, I've seen this goal. Yeah.

58:03Shaka Hislop:And then this is Sobberschle. So me and Stevie went for Lauper. Mario went for Sobberschle. Before we hear Craig, let's get you Robbo first.

58:14Frank Leboeuf:Oh, I'd go for the first one, the volley. That's a much harder technique, the volley. coming across your body. That's a really difficult technique and he did it perfectly.

58:23Dan Thomas:Yeah. Nadeem?

58:27Dan Thomas:No, I go for Subasla. I prefer that. Just because Robert is saying. I love the movement of it, yeah. So, Craig, you have it. Yeah, sure.

58:34Stewart Robson:Well, that one, the volley, he actually, he got a bit lucky on the volley. He cut it a lot. I feel like you're backtracking a little bit because you've called for this and then are doubting yourself. I'm not doubting, Michelle. I think Subasla. How can I put it? That ball's coming in for the volley.

58:54Stewart Robson:I'm going Subozla. It's not going to change now. The decision was made yesterday. King of the pitch. But I don't think it's as clear-cut as you first thought. No, well, I didn't see the other goals. Although I have seen that goal before. Yes. Yeah. No, it wasn't. Yeah, I can see the debate. There we go. All right, then. Still Subozla.

59:17Shaka Hislop:Okay, anything else? Any other extensions you'd like to put on this?

59:21Stewart Robson:No, that is definitely it now. The producer wants to talk some tennis now. Just a pad. Squash.

59:30Shaka Hislop:ESPN FC is back on your screens tomorrow. Of course, Liverpool in action against Sunderland. Bayern as well, playing Leipzig in the pool cow. Be sure to... Sunderland. That's what I said. You said Liverpool.

59:41Stewart Robson:Sunderland-Liverpool? Oh, you're right.

59:47Stewart Robson:I thought it was Arsenal. They've already played.

1:00:20Nedum Onuoha:We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now.