Chaos and Criticism in Madrid

24:55The fact that they get an opportunity to see it again is absolutely fantastic. And it's not the VAR implication that's the problem. It's the people that gets the final decision. It's the referee who gets the final decision that's the problem. Not VAR. That isn't the problem. It's the idiot who gave that penalty and he went against all the rules of VAR. But that's not VAR's fault that the referee went against the But Stevie, the referee on the pitch, human. You're only going to go to another human who might have a different opinion or the same opinion. Everything just seems to be subjective. You're trusting a referee on the pitch.

25:37I don't think the referees at the moment are refereeing at a very high standard. And I think subconsciously, they're probably waiting on help for VAR. I think the referee's standards are not as good as anymore. If you are correct that the refereeing standards are way below where they were, then we absolutely 100 % need VAR. No, because you're missing my point. That's the whole... The referee standards... The fact that the referees are underperforming tells you you need VAR. How do you expect a referee to get a decision right if you can go to a VAR screen and give us a completely and utter wrong decision that we can all see, but you don't want VAR to help these nubties that are not good enough to referee?

26:18No, Stevie, but you're missing my point completely. that what I'm saying is, because you're missing my point, what I'm saying is the referees are not making good decisions anymore. They're not steadfast in their decisions because subconsciously they know they've gotten out with VAR. Okay. That doesn't make any sense, Don. Luis, what do you think about this argument of VAR?

26:44Well, I think, and I can agree with both sides, I think that we are going just too far. I think the VAR arrived to help everyone else to try to beat this game a little bit more fair. The big mistakes to be held to the referees. And just to talk about it, to discuss about a situation that happened in the game and not be consistent, that means that Don will see one thing, I will see a different thing, and Steve will see a different thing, shows that it's very difficult to be refereeing. So having people outside who can see it in a slower place, in a slower motion, to analyze it, to look at it closer, I think is helpful.

27:22But not to get involved in every single matter. Because that example that we just saw with the hand, I mean, at some point you have to see and say, I got my doubts. In the moment there is a doubt, you cannot call again the referee to see if there is a penalty or not, if you've seen it properly or not. I think that it can help. I think that he's been very good in many occasions. There are big offside positions that they help. There's been penalties that they've been well called for VAR. Even the situation of an elbow that a player does far away from the vision of the referee, I think that it can be helped.

28:00But in the moment that the VAR starts being used for interpretation of the people there is in the VAR room and trying to tell them, you missed this one, let's have a look. And there is a communication in between. I see, I think this, look at this, look at this. It's like you are trying to re-referring once again. So I think that BIA can help. I think that it's been useful. But right now we are going, and I agree, we don't just too far. And right now we don't know what is happening anymore because the consistency of the refereeing is being outrageous. I mean, it's been so bad because when we see Hans and in the other games, another hands.

28:37And we've seen what happened just lately in the last one with Arsenal. And then you go back with the videos to two months ago and then you see exactly the same play in another different game. And it's been used and it's been called in a different way. That's when I don't think that this BAR situation is helping. So in clear options, yes, BAR is good. But trying to analyze every single play, I don't think we are helping on moving forward. Let's bring more in for the World Cup. Corner kicks, yellow cards, more VAR, Shaq. I will say one thing, though. FIFA and Sydney World Cup tournaments have used VAR better than the domestic leagues have.

29:15Ever since its first introduction a couple of World Cups ago. So I'm less concerned about the World Cup and FIFA's involvement in it, just because they employ a far more common sense approach to this. they want to make decisions quickly and the authority sits everybody knows the authority sits with the man in the middle and that for me is one of the bigger issues around well this this time around we talk of scottish football you see it in english you see it in spanish so often it feels as though the referees in the vr booth are the ones of authority and the guy on the pitch is just there to keep things ticking over.

29:57And that is a total role reversal of how it should be, of how it was defined when it was first introduced by FIFA. I think it was the 2018 World Cup was the first time it was used. That is a total role reversal. And as a result, I think that is why you're seeing the kind of disparities that you are now, because the referees in the middle don't see themselves as the ultimate authority. From the time somebody says, have a second look at this you know the outcome and that is not how it should be okay we're going to put you guys as our var team to the test tonight we're going to call you shockley park because we are going to bring up something else that don had a few thoughts on spurs had a late penalty denied in that 103rd minute against leeds you'll remember madison argued he was felt by metria here the ref waved it away and var agreed now don't let me start with you because i know what the guys in the studio think?

30:54Well, I mean, I saw this, Kay, and I was watching it and watching it and watching it, and I was thinking, I don't see the touch from the defender. And then everyone was commentating on the game, and everyone was going, yeah, the defender definitely got a touch. And then I sort of got sucked into thinking, yeah, the defender got a touch. And then I seen James Madison's tweet, and he said, watch it again, I'm the one that toe-poked it away. And that's what I saw originally when I first saw it, but I couldn't sort of be like 100 % I was like sort of 90 % sure Madison nicked it away from the defender but I got sucked in a little bit.

31:25I've gone back to my first thought and off the back of what James Madison, when you see it again, I think he's the one that tows it away and not the defender. It's nice to be able to see it again though, isn't it Don?

31:39Well yeah. But if I say James Madison towed it away then the wrong decision was made because then it should have been a penalty and it wasn't given so Luis did you think it was a penalty I think that the defender thought to ball but that I definitely see I've looked at it very slow I picture it on my phone again and again and slow it down and I think that that ball moves a little bit but again in the moment that we are talking about this in the moment that don't see us one way I see one way the BAS see a different way they shouldn't go in they shouldn't get involved listen we've seen like this but we really don't know if it's the striker who touched the ball or the defender who touched the ball.

32:22So whatever it is, what the referee have seen it, just let it go. Let it play. We cannot go and referee because we are not really 100 % sure. Don't see it one way, see it in a different way. Imagine that 80 ,000 people there are in the stadium. So VAR shouldn't get involved in these kind of situations. A reminder of how you guys felt about it. That's what VAR's for, isn't it? VAR's for the big decisions. That's a big decision. So for For me, 100 % VAR should get involved. And the fact is, they absolutely got it spot on. Regardless of whether you think he did, or whether you think he didn't, you can't tell, even though you've seen that again.

33:02And if you can't tell, you can't give the penalty. And he didn't give the penalty. So, perfect outcome. That's exactly what VAR's for, surely. Yeah, take that, Don.

33:18All right. I think we're done there. Just to remind you of how things are looking in the Premier League right now, this is the top of the table ahead of Villa playing Liverpool. It is fifth versus fourth coming up this weekend. So we've got the predictions of the panel for this very game. And it's a tough one to call for many of us because three of us have gone for a draw here in studio. However, Don's got Villa winning and Luis Garcia loyal. Liverpool 2-1 win. Don, why have you got Villa winning this one? I love Luis's loyalty. Listen, I just don't see Liverpool going to Villa Park and winning.

34:01The only way they might get a result is Villa have got a cup final about four days later against Freiburg. Unless Unai Emery goes with a really weakened side, I don't think he will. I think he'll go strong. I think they've had enough upsets off the back of European football where they've been disappointing. Friday night football at Villa Park atmosphere will be great. I don't see Liverpool going there and winning. Meanwhile, Luis, it looks like Slott might just be staying at Liverpool. He said today that he has every reason to believe that he will be Liverpool manager next season. What do you think about that?

34:34Well, they might have some information that we don't have. But definitely this season hasn't been the best one. A lot of people accuse him of maybe not doing the right job. But let's not forget, they won the Premier League last year. And it's true that we have our doubts that Liverpool was going to get not even in the top five in the Champions League spot. But in the end, they managed to get enough results, or at least he was on their way to do it. So, yeah, why not to give it the opportunity to build it again, the team that managed to get the trophy last year. I think that there is a lot of things that happened during the season.

35:09they came from a very very tough season and doing in a row by two of um by two years is not as easy it might look and you think always that now because you did the last year is going to be the same way if you don't change many things and if you bring all the people all their players but you can see that it is not exactly the same because you need to change position you need to adapt the new players to to the system that you were working with so i think that i will give it the opportunity to continue and see if he can manage to get back to their best because definitely the squad is strong enough to compete to any competition.

35:45Don, do you think he should be given a bit longer? Do you know what, Kay? I'm torn because I think we're going to be in a position in the summer where there's going to be so many top-class managers available. Xabi Alonso, Ira Ola, maybe Thomas Tuchel, Marco Silva, Glasner. There's going to be so many managers that are going to be looking for work. and I'm torn because I thought the board let Arnaz lot down with a standard of a squad that he got left behind and how thin the squad was. I thought they let him down big time with having a small squad going into so many games. Having said that, the football hasn't been great.

36:22So I think I would be having the conversations behind closed doors. Is there a better manager out there? Is Xabi Alonso a better manager to get the best out of Wurz, best out of Frimpon, having managed them before in Germany? the trouble with keeping Arna Slott and you hope he gets off to a good start and you hope he's going to be giving the funds in the summer to revamp the squad and go through a real transition and buy a more balanced squad the trouble is if those managers go elsewhere in the summer and Arna Slott gets off to a bad start then you're left what do you do then? Alright, well we've also got coming up this weekend the FA Cup final our boys will be in London for this game and we've got the predictions of the panel ahead of it as well.

37:05It is a clean sweep for Manchester City. No, it's not good. That's not good for City. Congratulations, Chelsea. Don, you've got a theory about Pep Guardiola. Well, only because I've seen it on Instagram tonight and there was some random sort of thing on the pitch. Now, it might not be for Pep, it might be for John Stones, but there was a picture, I think, of the Etihad and all the trophies laid out in the middle of the centre circle. So hopefully it's not going to be Pep's last couple of games. Hopefully I want him to stay on because I want the standard of the Premier League managers to be top draw.

37:40And the City fans that I know that have seen that knocking around on social media, it's pretty sad. Do you know anyone who goes on social media more than Don Hutchison on our panel? Well, let me just start by saying I know better than to trust one of Don's predictions. Especially one that just come out of the left. It's not mine. It's not mine. Did Don just say a couple of weeks ago he was getting rid of it? Well, let me tell you something. I'm not trusting Don. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna put a bet on whatever Don, the opposite of whatever Don says. That's how confident I am in Don's prediction.

38:11Let's be honest, right? Think about this rationally. Who, Don? Do you think? Think about Don rationally? Do you think when somebody said, Okay, let's get all the trophies on the thing and get a picture taken with Pep because he's leaving. Nobody will notice. He didn't say we will picture Pep. In fairness to Ardonald. By the way, don't worry. In fairness to Ardonald, he didn't say Pep was there. Thank you, Shark. Don't worry, no real notice. Thank you, Stevie. No real notice. All right, so Don's getting rid of Pep, he's getting rid of VAI, he's getting rid of it all. We're going to say goodbye to Luis.

38:42I'll see you now as well. Thank you so much for being with us, Luis. We'll speak to you again very soon. Make sure to be with us to see if Pep's waving goodbye in the FAQ today. Always trouble. This is Manchester City coming up on Saturday. Coverage will begin at 9. ESPN2 and ESPN Plus have you covered. I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule, and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self-injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo Pre-Filled Syringe, which contains F-Gartigamide Alpha and Hyaluronidase QVFC. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time.

39:20It's my treatment, my way. Visit VivgardMyWay.com. That's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T MyWay.com. and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hattrulo. Brought to you by Argenics. Evan Cohen here. Game day brings the excitement. Your stay should feel just as memorable. With Marriott Bonvoy, official hotel partner of the NCAA and U.S. soccer, you're connected to a portfolio of brands designed for how you travel. Some offer complimentary breakfast. Others give you room to spread out, space to stay productive, or extended stay comforts. So whether you're a traveling fan or part of the team, Marriott Bonvoy celebrates the moments that live on before and after the game.

39:58Marriott Bonvoy, where game day checks in. The Premier League season is wrapping up and we're getting ready for a World Cup on home soil. It's now just a month away and we are happy to welcome to the show Fulham and the U.S. men's national team, Anthony Robinson. Anthony, thank you so much for being with us. Obviously, lots of U.S. fans really excited to have the World Cup coming here. We all need to know, are you fit? Are you 100 % going into it? yeah thanks for having me I'm yeah 100 % fit ready to go hopefully you know get that phone call soon let me know that I'm going to be on the plane out there and yeah ready to give everything to try and win some games and make the country proud we'll keep this quick then since you're expecting a call it's been a frustrating season for you Anthony a lot of injuries something that you're not at all used to how have you been able to manage this season And again, with the expectation or the hope of what's to come this summer?

40:59Yes, it's been very difficult, me, on a personal level. I mean, very up and down. The last couple of seasons, you know, with club and country, I've been pretty much available for every game. I've missed, you know, a handful of games in this season. It's been a lot more. So it's been very tough, you know, to deal with mentally and physically trying to get myself right. But I've been doing all I can to get on top of myself off the pitch and get myself in good shape. and thankfully I'm heading in the right direction. We've got two games left and I'm feeling good for that and going into the summer I feel like I'll be in good condition and ready to help the team.

41:35Antti, I've got to ask you this. Why did you leave Raul Jimenez on his own with Saka when he put him on his backside? Tell me why. Yeah, that's a difficult one. I mean, we were just kind of set up in how we usually set up. it's usually our strikers like the last man and unfortunately you know they had a very good winger at the um who could get on the ball after that so good as what roles in the moment and we got punished for that which is unfortunate and something we've spoken about yeah well it wasn't good for him i know that right you must you must have said something to you though Have the lads been taking the mickey out of them in training and stuff?

42:22Not a whole lot. It's a bit of a touchy subject when we lose a game like that, so we just kind of try and move on. Yeah, we'll move on then. Listen, we've got extra time every single day on our show when the viewers send in their questions and these guys always get asked who's the toughest player that they've come up against in their career. as a player that you are now who's the toughest player that you faced or that you don't like facing when it comes to it when you do meet up with them I mean you just showed one of them to be fair Saka is obviously you know world class top a top player but if I off the top of my head I remember like my first Premier League season when he was at Leeds playing against Rafinha and he was you know he was a problem and played against them when he was playing for Brazil as well and he's so direct and fast and good on the ball that he's constantly threatening him behind, so then you drop off and then he just comes to feet and gets it and runs at you.

43:17So he keeps you on your toes throughout 90 minutes and it's mentally tough. But they're the type of games I love and I love going up against good opponents, so I wouldn't say there's any game where I think I can't be bothered going against them. I'd kind of relish in the challenge. Anthony, you've got the Epic Cup final to come this Saturday and just as it so happens, right here on your friendly neighbourhood worldwide leader in sports. Now, you face both these teams in City and Chelsea. Who is the tougher opponent between the two in your experience? In my experience, it's definitely Man City because that's the one team I've not beaten yet.

43:55I mean, I've beaten Chelsea a couple of times now and they're a very good team. And on the day, you know, they've got really good players and go against anyone, but we haven't cracked the code against Man City yet. they're just a completely different animal and they started this season slow and they've took the title race to the last two games somehow so a very impressive team and hopefully the final is going to be a very good game but I think if they're on it then they're heavily going to be favourites I was thinking about the Champions League and we sit here and we've kind of criticised Arsenal a little bit because of the second part of the season they keep letting City back in they keep letting City back in Now, they're in the Champions League final against PSG And obviously Obviously you haven't played against PSG But this Arsenal team I mean, how good are they when you face them?

44:46Because we're sitting here It's dead easy watching TV and commenting How tough are they to play against? And who's going to win? PSG or Arsenal? I mean, they're a top team You can tell they're so well drilled And know what they're doing They're so well organised everyone wants the ball and they've got different options whether they want to run in behind and just go long or they want to play to feet and kind of pull you out of position so you know they're very well drilled in what they do and obviously they're so physical and they get away with a lot here and there when it comes to you know fouls and set pieces and whatnot but you know if they end up winning the season then over the course of the whole season they probably have been the best team in the league so it would be fair to them and then in terms of PSG I mean that PSG buy-in first leg of the semi-finals.

45:34Probably the best game of football I've ever watched. It was so entertaining. It was fun seeing two sides just full-on attack each other. I think it'll be a completely different game in the final because Arsenal won't be that silly. They're not going to just go all out and let PSG have their fun. It's going to be a very talented attack against a well-organised beast, and we'll see what happens. Yep, we definitely will. So let's talk a little bit about the World Cup then, if we can, because what we have seen with some of the US men's national team players Anthony is that there have been some injuries this season there have been some players who perhaps haven't had the best domestic seasons with their respective sides but do you think you guys can pull it together and put out a top team this summer?

46:14Oh yeah 100 % I've got full faith in whatever team we manage to bring obviously I'd like everyone who is still fit to try and keep fit and healthy in the last couple of weeks leading up to it because we've had some guys who would have been big parts of the team who unfortunately could be missing out I know Johnny Carlos just has surgery on his ankle Which means he's probably going to miss out Which is unfortunate for him Pat doing his Achilles So it's very upsetting Anyone getting injured before the World Cup But I've got full faith in the team Like you said about form going into it There's some guys who haven't had their best season I'd include myself in that The kind of standards I've set myself this season Hasn't been great for me But I'm still going into this fully positive Thinking the World Cup is kind of Separate from the season is a clean slate and it's just a tournament to try and perform in.

47:03And I'm sure other boys will be thinking that as well. And the lads, you know, like Flo, who's been scoring pretty much nonstop, if they can take the confidence they've got from the season in, then even better for us. And I think we can feel a really strong team and have a great chance. Even despite that, Anthony, despite the injuries, despite the loss of form sitting domestically for some players going into the squad, there's a lot of expectation around the US, especially as hosts. difficult group to navigate. Well, listen, as a player I know you go into every single game, every single tournament thinking, firmly believing that you win it.

47:42But what's the minimum expectation from this US side, from your perspective? From my perspective, I kind of had the same feeling going into the last World Cup. I mean, you don't turn up to a tournament without trying to win it. so that's obviously the main goal and I truly believe in myself and I'm sure other lads do that if we believe in ourselves and we do what we can do then there's no reason we can't win it but in terms of minimum expectation I don't think that's something we set ourselves that's probably what the outside fans and whatever would put on us so like a minimum sort of goal I mean we haven't won say a quarter final for however long, certainly not since I've been alive.

48:27So, you know, if we manage to do that, that would put us into the semis and then it's a bit of a dogfight for two more games to lift the best trophy in the world. So I suppose that would be a good target to get past that and go from there. Anthony, last one from me. I'm very glad to see you've still got your Scouse accent, lad. Nice one. I don't know if you can still hear it. I try and speak a lot clearly with a US audience. I can hear everyone. Try and dumb it down. that's all right last one from me genuinely Anthony how excited are you for the World Cup here in the US?

49:06it's a difficult question for me to be honest because like we've said with form and injuries I've said it around the last World Cup I don't really get excited until the first game and I'm stood there in the squad waiting for it so I know it's getting a lot closer now and whoever's out there, I think the squad's going to be released in like 12 days or something. So it's getting closer and, you know, it's something that, you know, in the background of my head, it's thinking, you know, it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play in a World Cup on home soil and it could be the crowning achievement in my career if we do something special.

49:43Well, I mean, if we win the whole thing, it definitely would be, but it's probably going to be one of the best experiences of my life if I go. So, you know, it's kind of quietly building up the excitement in the background, but I'll be a hell of a lot more excited when I'm there. Yeah, we're wishing you all the best. We're glad to see that you are fit again for it. Thanks so much for joining us tonight on ESPN FC. Thanks for having me, guys. See you later.

50:10Football America is coming up a very special with more U.S. men's national team players, Gio Reyna and Joe Scully. Special guests, 8.30 p.m. Eastern. Herk and Alexis will have you covered. In today's world, planning ahead isn't always top of mind, but not having life insurance can leave families facing difficult financial uncertainty during already emotional times. In many cases, loved ones are left managing expenses, debts, or long-term obligations without a clear plan in place. Life insurance is one of those ways to help provide financial security and support when it's needed most. That's where Ethos comes in.

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51:28Application times and rates may vary. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews, all on the Thumbtack app. Download today. All right, let's get to FC Cincinnati taking on Inter Miami in MLS action. Lots of goals to show you in this 24th minute. Some good build-up here.

52:10Jesus. Messi.

52:14Is he playing them, though? What is that? Oh, God. To the 39th minute we go. Kevin Denke comes down in the box here to penalty for Sinti. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt to it. Two arms wrapped around him. We see that every weekend. Well, then it should be given every weekend. All right, fair enough. Taking it to the 49th minute now. And... Pavel putts Cincinnati ahead here, turns it around. Lionel Messi responds though in the 55th. De Paul into Messi. I mean, I don't even know what to say again. It just makes it look so easy. A little give and go and then tap in for him. 64th, Evander Ferreira beats a couple of defenders there.

53:08I think I might even top down this week. You think so? I think so. Stevie just volunteered himself. Steve's got it. What did he say? It's Thursday. 79. Messi to Matteo Silvetti. A nice little finish under some pressure. That ties the game. And it just gets himself an absolute muddle. Good finish off. Hacey forced Messi free kick, saved by a challenge. Ah boy, yo! Betarame tapping it in. Clides with his own man. Get out of the way you! Ah jeez.

53:47Messi's shot here is going to hit the post. He's not the keeper. Yeah, ruled as an own goal. Ah boy, poor goalie. Who would be a goalie? Who would be a goalie? Let's talk about your power ranking shall we? Yeah, just a couple of changes. Inter in Decent Round, St. John Crown Italian Champions. City are back in after somehow getting past Chris and Paz, but continuing to make a title race of this. Bournemouth and Betis. Betis have secured Champions League football for next season and Bournemouth are trying their damnedest to do exactly the same. Both teams put together incredible runs and so are rewarded because I'm a Love of the beautiful game.

54:39That's why. Do we like his TV? Of course he does. I'm not sure about Real Betis. Back in the Champions League for the first time in 20 years. You're just not a romantic. That's the problem. No, I'm not. You're right. I am absolutely not a romantic. Who should be in ahead of them then? I mean, Hearts have never, ever been in his power rankings as far as I can remember. Certainly at the top of the Scottish Premier League. If they get a draw, the next weekend they win the Scottish title for the first time since 1960. If they get a draw. So then they'll be in the next week. But never mind that. Real Betis, yeah, there you go.

55:21Exactly, that's not an if. Real Betis have secured Champions League football. Have to put themselves in a position to do it. That's what counts. Well, they put themselves in a position to be in the top ten. How many years are we talking from 1960? A lot A lot Come on Tell you what If they draw they're in a number one Alright I'm holding you to that John, any issues? No, no, no No, no, no No, no, no But they're in I tell you what I love, Kay I tell you what I love Like me and Stevie are arguing about VAR and the first highlight you put in with that Cincinnati Miami penalty Stevie and Shaka are straight away arguing about VAR.

56:03That's what I loved and that's my takeaway. Shaq, your algorithms are quite good there. Hold on a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm quite impressed. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What do you mean Shaq and I were arguing about VAR? What did we say? You were arguing over the penalty in the highlights there. Shaq said pen and you said no. Right. So what's that got to do with VAR? There you go then. More to the point. Was that going to do the top ten? It's just part of the conversation. There you go then. Anyway, Shaq. Your algorithms are quite good there. What I would say, Shaq, what I would say is in your 1-10 there, Man City are higher than Bournemouth.

56:42Man City are unbeaten in 14. Bournemouth are unbeaten in 16. Yeah, with a lot of draws. Man City is second, though. I get your point, though. It's a good point, but I still lean City as being higher than Bournemouth. It's a draw that we can. So can Hearts go in at number one? Knowledge. If Bournemouth, Jodie, we can't, they're in at number one too. Nah, put Hearts in. No, no, I said I've got it wrong. No. Well done, Bournemouth and Betis. Hearts are 11. Come on the jam tarts. Come on the jam tarts. Come on the jam tarts. Come on, Hearts. Power Rankings. Come on. That's two weeks in a row. There's been next to no complaints about the Power Rankings.

57:26Well, it's time to do it. I'm just saying. You just go with who's winning, who's got the top four. I'm just saying. It's pretty simple. Just making a point. I'm on a roll. Yeah. All right. Right. Okay. Little beer showers. It's that time of the season when we get to see those beer showers, particularly in Germany. You'll remember this a few seasons ago. Hey! This was on our conference. Schweinsteiger. He's back. He's back at the weekend. So we'll see. How it all goes with Bayern Munich against Köln. Alti's kidding on, it's funny, look, Alti got blitzed as well. Yeah, yeah. Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

58:08More of the same this weekend, no doubt. Saturday, 8.30 a.m. Eastern, Bayern Munich against Köln. Now, we need to show you Mbappe speaking after Real Madrid's game today because the storylines continue with Real Madrid. He has addressed the boos and he's addressed not starting today. and this is what he's had to say. That's life. I don't think you can change people's minds when they're angry, like I said six months ago. It's a manner of them to communicate and express their opinions. I don't think you should take it personally. In my career, there have been many times when people have whistled me.

58:47I think that's the life of a Real Madrid player, and that's the life of a famous player like me. I feel very well, 100%. I didn't play because the boss told me that, for him, I'm the fourth attacker on the roster. Behind my start, Tuono, Vinny, Gonzalo. I accept it, and I play the time that I get to play. And I think I played well. I gave Jun an assist. I think we played well. We won. It's always important to win at home and always stay positive. What do you mean you're the fourth on the roster? Ask the boss. What do you want me to say? Yes, I was ready to be a starter, but that was his decision.

59:24I can't be mad with the boss. I can't be mad with the boss. OK, that is very interesting. Abloh has also spoken in the post-match press conference and said that he didn't say that, and maybe it's been misunderstood if that's how Mbappe had interpreted it. All the things we said earlier, that just proves the point. He still can't help himself stirring the pot. He could have said anything else, but he didn't. He actually had to stir the pot. What should he have said, even if he's annoyed that he didn't play today? all he's got to say is listen the boss thought it would be better if I didn't start then nobody nobody takes that any other way right he didn't say that though he had to say that oh I was told he was fourth behind many names all the names he's just staring at it's exactly what we spoke about during the show

1:00:20it's all about me me me me me me me me and if it doesn't go my way then you know what I'm going to make sure everybody knows about it. So I'll just stir the pot. When all the flax flying around, I'm not going to help. I'm just going to try and make it worse. That's all he's done. Is that fair, Shaka? I want to give him a little bit of leeway or grace here. Keep in mind that he's speaking in Spanish. That's not his first language. And how I think that can be interpreted is the boss comes in. He's fresh off of injury. And the boss says, well, you're not starting. You're first off the bench. which means you're fourth in line.

1:00:58So I think there are a couple of ways. And again, just kind of understanding, well, I speak one language, and I recognise how when players, where English isn't their first language, how sometimes they say things that can be misconstrued. I'll give Kylian Mbappe the benefit of that same doubt here in speaking a language that's not his first. Just to reinforce, Alvaro Abelhoa did say in the press conference afterwards, when that was put to him, what Mbappe had said, that he did not say he was the fourth choice striker and he thought it had been misunderstood. He probably didn't understand. How could I say that, he even said?

1:01:34Right, the thing to it for me is he names the three players who started, which is why I'm being sympathetic. Nobody thinks Mastantowano, short-term or long-term, is ahead of Kylian Mbappe in anybody's pecking order. But he started, which is why I'm a little more sympathetic to Kylian Mbappe here. Okay. no doubt there'll be more talk about Real Madrid on tomorrow's show and the next show and the next show and maybe even in Extra Time tonight, stick around Extra Time is on the way now, Don Hutchison is staying up late to answer your questions with these two, see you in a minute

1:02:13Welcome into the latest edition of Extra Time my three starters tonight, Shaka Hisloff Stevie Nichol, Don Hutchison fourth choice was Luis Garcia but didn't want to start him. Does that make you Abelor? Didn't say that. You didn't have to say that. You just didn't even need to mention Luiz. Nobody would have heard it. Any other wiser. But no, no, you've got to get out of the port. She used to work for Real Madrid TV, remember? Yeah, that's where it comes from. John, at the end of the show tonight, you'll have heard that we were talking about what Mbappe has said in the mixed zone after Real Madrid's game.

1:02:50Could you hear the boys talking about it? What did you think about it? Yeah, I think I agree with Shaq. I think he's probably took it like his fourth choice when actually his first choice, because he's the first one off the bench. So listen, when you're going through a difficult period, I know what Stevie's saying. Stevie's right as well. He stirred it a little bit, but when you're not having a good time, he could have just said, if I was in his shoes, he could have just said, listen, I'm not 100 % fit. I'm glad to get some game time. I'm thankful of the boss he put me on and gave me some minutes and I played quite well.

1:03:24That's the way to go, but I do agree with Shaq where it's probably got lost in translation a little bit. Alright. I thought Louise wasn't on.

1:03:34I mean that was a fence wasn't it? No Louise isn't on, that's why I said he's taken place. No he's just taken place. Well don't you disagree with me? He's on me tonight isn't he? He is on you. He is on you. He's on me Kay. He is on you. she is i'm sorry don i wasn't meant to i was actually trying to get okay she's trying he's trying to catch me out i'm trying to get again like when he tried to convince me i wasn't a quarter scottish but i am sorry all right i didn't make a bomb don after hearing the var audio from west ham's disallowed goal do you finally have closure i know but i don't i don't I don't have closure because have I got to go through it all again?

1:04:19So the first action, in my humble opinion, Trossard was fouling Pablo first. And it was so many different fouls going on. And Declan Rice was rugby tackling Mavropanos, which is not part of football. You can't rugby tackle someone. And then Pablo's fouling the goalkeeper. He is fouling him 100%. I'm not denying that. my opinion and my take on it was there was so much going on he's fouling him, he's fouling him six things going on, on field decision ref, give a goal, give a goal If money wasn't the issue Stevie would you have Mbappe at Liverpool to replace Salah or would it be a personality and cultural misfit?

1:05:01That's a tough question by the way That is a great question right

1:05:11That's a great question.

1:05:17You know. Got him, Kay. You've got him. You always have to think what's best, right? What's best for everybody, right? And if you're doing what's best for everybody, do you want a pain in the backside who's going destroy whatever dressing room chemistry you have are you really going to do that and you're going to pay them ridiculous amounts of money money is an issue is he going to answer the question yeah but yeah but you well i think i think i've pretty much answered it no no no no not sure you answered that guy no he said he answered well see and another part of the reason I'm saying no is look at look at we've just been talking on the show about Real Madrid and how what they should do is exactly what PSG did right but the fact is they can't the fact is they can't

1:06:22so why why do you want a problem so you want you want to take the problem the possibly the biggest problem away from Real Madrid and plant it in Liverpool. Do you really want to do that? Tell you what though, I tell you what though Stevie, Liverpool would love 40 of his goals next season. And you have to make a choice. Do you do what's best for the whole, for everybody? Or do you just go well you know what we'll sort it all out around them? We like Chubby. Well guess what, what's happening at Real Madrid? They've tried to sort it all around him and look where they Mbappe is going to be absolutely fuming that you had to say that.

1:07:05Money or not. If money is no problem, I'm pretty sure there are other players. That's going to be a headline in the Echo. That will be a headline in the Echo tomorrow morning. Stevie Nicholls says no to Mbappe for Liverpool. Consider the amount of problems Liverpool have. You just want to go and spend all your money and bring another one in. Money is not an issue, Steve. We're not considering money. You can't. You can't say money. That's a question. That's a game. You can't see that. You cannot see that. I'd have him wherever. I think maybe I'd have to. I think Don would as well. Alright, do you think West Ham regrets moving away from David Moyd-Shaka in 2024?

1:07:48They wanted to play more attractive football, didn't they? Yes. Another great question, by the way. Yes, they absolutely do. and I think it summed up well. They did it twice. They sacked David Moyes. Things go pear-shaped. Bring him back in. He saves them. He saves them or bring them back up. Anyway, he saves them and then you decide to sack him again and now he's got a job. So you can't bring him back in. That's absolutely yes. They regret it. Okay. Don, what can be said about Serie A when Inter's goal difference is plus 54 with 85 goals scored and Napoli, Juve and Milan second to fourth have only scored 54, 59 and 50 goals respectively Can we say that these issues domestically with the other top teams translate to Italy's poor international results?

1:08:45Maybe because I tell you what's happening in Italy and we talked about the lack of number 10s there's a dearth of number 9s now in Italian football in Serie A you know, Italians anyway you know, LaTano Martinez is the top man at Inter but you go to Milan and their experiment with playing Pulisic and Leal was two false nine every time I commentate on them it never works Vladovic is being linked with Newcastle today I'm not sure I would take him at Newcastle he's hardly fit for Juve so I think the question is fair when you think of the amount of goals or the lack of goals that Italians are actually scoring in Serie A that has to have an impact on the national side.

1:09:24So you take away the culture of no Del Piero's and no Baggio's and no Zola's and no Totty's as 10's. The lack of number nines, Italian number nines in Serie A is startling. OK. Flick now and earlier Xavi, sorry, Flick now and earlier Xavi have called Gavi a leader. Can such a young player be a leader and how? Have you played with slash coached any such player? Well, I'll jump in first. John Terry was an outstanding player from a very young age. So yeah, it's not... As rare as it is, it's not unique.

1:10:12I'll tell you what, I'll answer for Don. Oh boy. Shaq is my barrister So Shaq Double check this Shaq What do you call the centre back He played for Everton Played for Bolton He was captain of Bolton When he was 19 He's got a dodgy mince pie He was coach of Hebs as well Centre back Who's that? I think I know Everton I don't remember his name He played for years at Everton He was captain Not Dave Not Dave Watson But I'm trying to think We played for Bolton No after Watson Played for Bolton as well Oh, Alan Stubbs Alan Stubbs He's the first guy that came to my mind He was young He was captain of Bolton When Bolton had all these players He was captain I think he was the captain when they beat us in the playoff final Thanks for bringing that up Stevie He was 19 So age ain't nothing but a number if you're a natural leader Yeah, pretty much yes Absolutely You agree Don?

1:11:16Yeah, I've seen young Rio come through at West Ham and Frank, sorry, Michael Carrick come through at West Ham as well. So, yeah, you can sort of see him and Shaq made a great point with John Terry. You know when you see one and you know when you see a young player come into your team and they've got something about them where they're not shy. They've got an opinion. They've got a voice because, you know, normally young players go into a team like when I went to the Liverpool team and you've got Stevie and you've got John Barnes and Steve McMahon and Ronnie Whelan and Jan Mulby and Peter Beers and Alan Hansen and all the greats, you've got no voice.

1:11:51You've just got no voice whatsoever and you've just got to try and get by on your ability and show enthusiasm and then when you get a little bit older and a little bit more confident, then you can have a voice. But you can see when the Terrys of this world and the Rios and the Michael Carricks come in, you can see them and you go, yeah, leadership. Yeah, nice stuff. Okay, Stevie and Don. How credible of a title race has it been in the SPL? Even the best script writers couldn't come up with this scenario where the two teams play on the final day to decide it. Don. Amazing. I mean, as much as Scottish football and VARs took a bash in over the last 24 hours, and it has, you can't write a script where Hearts play Celtic at Celtic Park this weekend.

1:12:41The whole world at 12.30 is going to be tuning in for this game, watching it, thinking like, can Hearts go there and get a point? Can they go there and win, or will they be off the floor watching Celtic get a late winner the other day against Motherwell? I mean, the stadium's going to be packed. The bars in Glasgow, all around Edinburgh, anywhere you want to look, it's going to be rammed, and all the eyes of the world will be on Scottish football and that can only be a good thing.

1:13:14There's not a league in the world that wouldn't want their title regardless of where it is. Everybody would love to have the title decided on the last game between the two teams that are going for the title. I mean, you just couldn't make it home. Yeah, and everybody's waiting to see if Hearts will make it into Shaqa's power engines. What sort of coverage are they going to have in Trinidad Shaqa on this game? Well, apparently, all eyes will be on it. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, Hearts. Come on, you are. I'd love to see Hearts win it. I'd love to see Hearts. Because as we've established in the show, I'm a footballer.

1:13:53I know. Prediction done. Yeah, prediction done. Are they going to win it? Back in Hearts. I'm back in Hearts. Backing them to get it done. That didn't sound very positive. No. That was more of a, I want Hearts to win. Exactly, you read my mind. How are you feeling, Stevie? I think Celtic will win the game. Because the Hearts just need to not lose. Is it Parkhead? Is it Parkhead? I don't think... Stevie, would you say the last time in sort of recent memory, the Liverpool-Arsenal game in 89 was when... Because you don't see like at the end of this season obviously Liverpool, sorry Man City playing Arsenal.

1:14:37I can't remember it in years gone by in recent years. I can only go back to probably 89 where the two teams played each other on the last day of the season. No I think you're right. I think you're right yeah. I can't think of one since then. It's a much smaller scale but Middlesbrough when they did go up automatically last time they went up they played Brighton on the final stage. Look at the team. Kay, what are you saying? Whoever won that one would have gone off. Who does it play? Brayton. Give Kay her moment. Give Kay her moment, please. Let me have my moment, you don't even want it back. It's been a tough week for Kay.

1:15:11Get the music on. It's been a tough week for Kay. Let her have it. All of it. Be of yourself, Stephen. Let Kay have her moment. Go on, Kay. Remember when Ackie did Stanley. Stanley, who were they? Who were they? Where you did all the classes. For Ackley? 1875.

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