In short
The episode of ESPN FC focuses mainly on Chelsea’s struggles and the reasons behind them, then shifts to Italy’s failure to qualify for the World Cup, and ends with international-team power rankings and refereeing incidents.
Guests and backgrounds
Kay Murray-Shekharislop and Stevie Nichol are the studio hosts. Luis Garcia (former Spain international) and Don Hutchison (adopted Italian, former Scotland player) join for analysis.
Key claims
Chelsea’s youth-first transfer model is criticized as discouraging because it lacks “experienced” players for elite moments (example: squad issues vs PSG). Multiple Chelsea players publicly echo frustration about instability and manager changes, including Mark Cucurella (comments on Maresca leaving) and Enzo Fernandez (similar themes). The panel argues the club may be repeating a cycle without balancing short-term winning with long-term youth development.
Notable examples
Chelsea’s sixth-place league standing; eliminated by Arsenal in EFL Cup; PSG exit before the international break. Italy: repeated World Cup failures and poor finishing/identity (examples cited include losses and shot dominance vs North Macedonia and Bosnia).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOChelsea's Current Season Overview
0:42 to 1:15
Discussion on Chelsea's standings and recent performance in competitions.
“We've got a mixed bag for you, but we are starting with Chelsea in the Premier League.”
Analysis of Chelsea's Transfer Policy
1:15 to 2:10
Exploration of criticism regarding Chelsea's focus on signing young players.
“Well, Michael Guerrero has been talking to the Athletic this week.”
Kukurella's Frustration and Players' Voices
2:10 to 2:59
Discussion on Kukurella's comments and players' frustrations about the club's direction.
“Signing young players with a knife for the future and the salon, putting them on relatively low wages but long contracts, I guess from a business perspective makes sense.”
The Balance of Youth and Experience
2:59 to 4:01
Debate on the need for experienced players versus the strategy of signing young talent.
“And as I say, I think it's a frustration felt that far wider than just the dressing room.”
Maresca's Impact on Chelsea
4:01 to 4:47
Analysis of the managerial changes and the effect on team performance.
“Does this give us a little idea as to what's being said inside the dressing room, if this is being said to the public?”
Players Expressing Concerns Publicly
4:47 to 6:00
Discussion on the implications of players publicly voicing their issues with club management.
“and five or six other guys when they really hit their maturity and keep them?”
Revisiting Chelsea's Historical Success
6:00 to 7:40
Reflection on Chelsea's historical performance and how it affects current expectations.
“Going outside and putting these kind of things to the rest of the public just generates a lot more confusion.”
Challenges of a Young Chelsea Team
7:40 to 14:03
Exploration of the struggles Chelsea faces due to its young squad and managerial instability.
“If you believe in the youth and you believe in your vision and what is your target in the long range, it's not about the players that you bring.”
Chelsea's Struggles and Managerial Instability
14:03 to 15:00
Discussing Chelsea's issues with player maturity and managerial changes impacting performance.
“And so when you've got younger players who are looking to the sideline and every time they look at the sideline, there's a different face with a different hem sheet.”
Italy's World Cup Woes
16:05 to 17:48
Analyzing Italy's failure to qualify for the World Cup and loss of football identity.
“And maybe you saw our podcast title this week, which said, All roads lead to home for Italy, and not Rome.”
Show all 28 chapters
The Impact of Overcoaching on Talent Development
17:49 to 22:21
Exploring how overcoaching affects young talents in Italy and across Europe.
“Because, you know, if you look at Frattese, for example, he's probably the best number 10 that the Azzurri have got.”
Critique of Italy's Recent Performances
22:23 to 24:12
Critiquing Italy's recent matches and discussing the lack of finishing skills.
“don't be involved in a competition like the World Cup in this year.”
Cultural Changes in Football and Its Effects
24:16 to 28:00
Discussing changes in football culture and pressure affecting Italian players.
“Team after team, generation after generation, it seems.”
Italian National Team Struggles
28:00 to 28:20
Discussing the challenges faced by Italy in international competition.
“to the Italian fans and the players and the manager and Gattuso and his backroom staff.”
World Cup Team Rankings Discussion
29:17 to 30:19
Analyzing the current ranking of the United States in the World Cup.
“Over on the website, Ryan O 'Hanlon has been ranking the 2026 World Cup teams.”
Concerns About US National Team
30:20 to 33:05
Debating the performance and expectations for the US Men's National Team.
“which they were favourite too into this group, I'll say the same thing as I did when they made the draw.”
Rankings and Future of National Teams
33:06 to 34:28
Discussion on various national teams' rankings and their potential in the World Cup.
“But again, things can change very quickly.”
Analyzing England's Power Rankings
34:29 to 35:45
Examining the discrepancies in England's ranking and recent performances.
“And that's Shekia Hislop with his power rankings.”
Debate on VAR Decisions and Penalties
35:46 to 40:06
Discussing a controversial penalty decision regarding Manchester United.
“I maintain, I still think those top four are the best four teams in world football.”
VAR Controversies: Should It Have Intervened?
42:00 to 44:28
The discussion explores VAR's role in controversial penalty rulings and hair-pulling incidents in football.
“Even Luis is trying his best to say no, but he can't because it's just a penalty.”
Foul Play: Hair-Pulling Incident Analysis
44:37 to 47:08
Analyzing a controversial foul in women's football and the reactions from coaches.
“There's been upset about this, particularly from Chelsea coach Sonia Bonpastor, who was not happy after the game.”
Antoine Griezmann's Journey: Professional Growth
47:08 to 49:51
A discussion on Antoine Griezmann's evolution as a player and his impact on the team.
“It's Atletico taking on Barcelona Saturday 3 p.m.”
Atletico Madrid: Current Squad Strengths
49:51 to 53:02
Examining Atletico Madrid's current squad depth and aspirations for the Champions League.
“I didn't know how to turn that back to me, mentally and that's why my last season's season was not able to help the team at the maximum.”
Phil Foden's Struggles
56:04 to 57:52
Discussion on Phil Foden's recent form and possible reasons for his decline.
“which he's good at, or he feels the pressure, or he can't handle the pressure.”
Lukaku's Absence from Training
57:53 to 1:00:58
Analyzing Lukaku's failure to report to training and its implications.
“But you could understand it because of how bad City were.”
Mbappé's Controversial Statement
1:00:59 to 1:04:49
The panel reacts to Mbappé's claim that center-back is the easiest position to play.
“What a completely and utter ignoramus to come out and say something like that.”
World Cup Dark Horses
1:04:50 to 1:07:30
Exploring potential dark horse teams for the upcoming World Cup.
“And we're going to classify dark horses as a team that's never won the World Cup.”
Final Thoughts and Sign-Off
1:07:31 to 1:08:48
The hosts wrap up the episode with final thoughts and a light-hearted discussion.
“How are we going to get in touch with you to come on the show and talk about Italy and Sunderland and Newcastle and all those things?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00K-pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor. No, really. Stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side. And participate in McDonald's while supplies last.
0:34Hello and welcome into the latest edition of ESPN FC. Kay Murray-Shekharislop and Stevie Nichol here in the studio. Lots to talk about tonight. We've got a mixed bag for you, but we are starting with Chelsea in the Premier League. We do have Luis Garcia. Yep, thumbs up there from him. He's in Madrid ahead of a big game this weekend. And Don Hutchison is joining us too. We'll be hearing more from both of them in a minute. But as we look to domestic football returning, here's a reminder of how Chelsea are faring this season. They are sixth in the Premier League as it stands right now, still in the FA Cup.
1:07In the EFL Cup, they were eliminated by Arsenal and they just came out of the Champions League before the international break to PSG. Well, Michael Guerrero has been talking to the Athletic this week. This is what he's had to say about Chelsea's transfer policy. He says signing young players only might complicate fighting for major trophies. Against PSG, we lacked players that had gone through situations like that. I understand this is part of the club's policy looking to the future, but for all of us who are still here and want to win big things, moments like this make you feel discouraged. It's obviously to do with the model and specifically concerning the centering around youth when it comes to Chelsea.
1:48What do you think when you see that, Xhaka? I think Cucurella has a point. Now, the ownership group with Clear Lake or Blue Call, whoever it is, they have their approach and they've kind of set their stall out. Kukurela talks about it, young players coming in. So from a business perspective, maybe they can't be as criticized as you would from a footballing perspective. Signing young players with a knife for the future and the salon, putting them on relatively low wages but long contracts, I guess from a business perspective makes sense. From a footballing perspective it does not. Footballers want to win things now.
2:28Fans want to see their club win things now. You can sell them a project a year or two in advance you cannot sell fans seven or eight years time, we'll be alright. And that's the balancing act and that's the big clubs get that just right. This new ownership group again has not maybe following in the footsteps of Abramovich and how he did things and how quickly things changed. But they certainly have not found that balance. So I fully understand the frustration of Kukurella. And as I say, I think it's a frustration felt that far wider than just the dressing room. Don't you surprise that a player's actually said this out aloud like Mark Kukurella has?
3:12Yeah, I don't think it's a good look. I think it's been a theme of Chelsea's players this season Enzo Fernandes comes into that conversation as well where they feel as though maybe Chelsea are a stepping stone to try and go elsewhere which shows the standards of Chelsea Football Club over the last five years or so Kukurea when he was signed was a young player so he's only saying things that us pundits and us in the media have known for a long time that you can get by and you can have the project of signing young players and young players will take you so far, but young players will be inconsistent.
3:47That's what happens when you're young. You need to mature into being top players. If they keep signing young players, they're going to stay at a certain level. But I do feel as though he's a little bit out of order, speaking about board and the priorities and the ownership, when he's getting paid an awful lot of money to play for Chelsea. Does this give us a little idea as to what's being said inside the dressing room, if this is being said to the public? A hundred percent. A hundred percent. It's amazing, isn't it? Football might be the only industry where the worker can complain about the bosses and not get the bullet.
4:20I mean, it really is, isn't it? You know, we had Enzo Fernandez a couple of weeks ago saying similar things. Now we've got Cucurella saying the same things. And what the owners are doing, they're not helping the players on the field to succeed. I would be interested to know if the owners, yes, we know about this policy. and when they came in, they decided that they were going the youth side. Are they going to hold on to the Enzo Fernandezes and the Caicedos and five or six other guys when they really hit their maturity and keep them? And then you build around that with the youth so that it is a six or seven year plan.
5:01That's the real question now because clearly they just emptied the decks and all these young guys and so eventually they're going to mature and be the experienced players that a team needs to succeed, whether it's Premier League or Champions League, because I'm assuming that's what they want. They don't want to win the Conference League. So that would be my question to the owners. I understand the policy to begin with, but now you've had a point where, OK, are you wanting to take the next step? And if you do want to take the next step, that's what it is. What do you think of it, Luis, what your fellow Spaniard has had to say here about Chelsea?
5:43we all understand the frustration I kind of don't get on these days why all the players have something to say about the club, the signing because in the end you have to perform on the field and apart from that try to understand what they are doing if you don't understand you should keep it in house that's the way that I was grown up that's the way that I understood football that's the way that I think that things should be done if you are not happy by the way that things are doing just make a meeting with the rest of the team, with the board, and put it on the table. Going outside and putting these kind of things to the rest of the public just generates a lot more confusion.
6:21I understand that when you are not getting closer to trophies, you are frustrated, you look around, but what that means is that you've got young players that maybe are not ready to fight for the trophy, that they don't have enough quality, that they are not there to fight for all the trophies. I think the Chelsea history has shown that there was a period, a short period that they managed to get trophies, but in a long range for the past 20, 50 years, we know what is the history of Chelsea. So it's not a team that has been winning trophies every single weekend. So what is success for Chelsea on these days?
7:00Getting closer to the Champions League right now, they have the option to get into the Champions League position. So I understand the frustration. But if you want to build a strong team and you are believing in the youth, I think the first thing is not pointing against the youth. It's about pointing out why the plan is not starting from having a manager for a long period, and understanding what you want, the vision that you want to have for the future, and keeping on that. In the moment after six months, you change it. It doesn't matter how many players. It doesn't matter if you bring Lionel Messi, Mbappe and Neymar that Paris Saint-Germain had, because the Sussex is not going to be there.
7:41If you believe in the youth and you believe in your vision and what is your target in the long range, it's not about the players that you bring. It's about what are you doing with those players. It's a perfect segue into a little more on what Mark Kukurea had to say. This is what he was talking about when we heard he had some comments on Maresca. He said, when a manager gives you that confidence and offers you a platform to fight for titles, you die for him. The moment Maresca left, it had a big impact on us. These are decisions taken by the club. If you asked me, I would not have made this decision.
8:14To make a change like that, the best thing is to wait until the end of the season. The instability around the club comes from this in a nutshell. And that leads on, Stevie, to what you were saying. This is Enzo Fernandes who'd also said something along the lines of knowing what the whole plan was under Maresca and now having to deal with a new manager again. I mean, I think what he says is absolutely 100 % correct. But it goes back to what we've just all been saying. Keep your mouth shut. If you've got a problem, go and ask somebody. Keep it in the building. There's nothing wrong with having a problem with something that's going on at your club, but there's a way to go about either changing it or you move on yourself.
8:53if you don't like it that much. So, yeah, what he's saying is correct, but he shouldn't be saying this in public. It's just, all it does is, all the things that we've been saying is all the things that Enzo Fernandes and now Kukare has been saying. So, actually, we're not too far off the mark. Why are we hearing it from so many players, though? There's got to be something more to this. Part of the issue is, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Back in our day, you knew you'd go on international break, somebody was going to go back to their home country, do an interview, and a week or two later that interview would filter through and it'd be criticising whether it was a club or his teammates, whatever it is.
9:33Roll the clock forward was 30, 40 years. And nothing's changed, really. Despite social media and the immediacy of it, players go away on international duty and do interviews in their native languages with reporters maybe they're comfortable with, and these things come out. But again, to Steve's point, I do not disagree with a single thing who Karela says. I really don't. And it's true. And the other aspect to this is, while we can sit here and say, listen, as a player, you really shouldn't be talking about this publicly, which is right. If you are a little bit frustrated and you're thinking, I can engineer a move here, you say what you want.
10:15Because to Steve's point, players are on contracts you move him on um you know it that that's what he's looking for there there are ways again that players kind of go about that their business in terms of you know i'm kind of pushing for a move these are the kind of things you do almost every single time yeah we're taking names now don because speaking to alexis nunes we had malo gusto also talking about mareska now we've just heard the latest from marco carrera there we've got enzo fernandez so this is a number of players speaking to a number of reporters on this international break about the same topic yeah they weren't exactly moaning when they signed their seven-year contract so were they um listen i i think it would carry more weight if it was a john terry or ashley cole you know with all due respect to mark kukurea he's not in that bracket he's not an elite left back in my opinion so him and gusto and enzo fernandez enzo fernandez is probably the one where he's talking about maybe he's living in Madrid.
11:14He might have got sidetracked by a question. I agree with Xhaka. I've sat there in the Scottish press many, many years ago, and you have a cup of coffee, and they ask you a few questions, and everything's a little bit nice, and all of a sudden they'll hit you with, oh, which team do you like to watch? So look at Rangers, and you drop the Rangers in, and all of a sudden the next morning Hutchison wants to sign for Rangers. So you can sort of get sucked into the conversation, but it can't be just like when three players are coming out having the same conversation about the board. you know we're all experienced people we know the game and when all of us are saying the same thing about what Kukurea and Enzo Fernandes and Gusto are saying is essentially right that would lead me to the job that the sporting directors are doing because if we can sit here and say well Chelsea are signing young players and it's not going to work why the sporting directors given Maresca and given Resinia young players to work with they need experienced players so you'd question the job that they're doing yeah absolutely but gets to the point Luis when you wonder if they do they have a point?
12:13You know, we keep hearing it. It feels like we're going to keep hearing it. Yeah, exactly. And it's something that has been around in the dressing room for sure. When the three players are coming out and talking about the same topic, it's because that's been a talking point inside the dressing room because they felt good playing for under Maresca because right now maybe they are not in the right spot because they are not feeling the same way. Because think about it. The guys are talking right now about Enzo Maleska that is not there, how good they were feeling, why he was sacked and this kind of situation.
12:47What that says about Liam, about the new manager, I think that's something that they should think also about. You've got a new manager, normally what you say, no, we are trying to do the best, we are trying to improve, Liam is bringing something different, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what you're trying to do. In the moment that you start talking about a manager that is not even into the club, it's because there was a shocking moment, there was something important for them, and maybe that didn't help on the way of this Chelsea, how this Chelsea was moving forward. So right now it's, again, starting from scratch and that's something that for a Premier League team, for a team that is trying to achieve trophies, is going to help them at all.
13:27You know, you think about, I was thinking about, you know, Chelsea in the past, winning Champions Leagues, winning Premier Leagues, they were getting rid of managers left, right and centre. So it just shows you that, again, all the things we've been talking about, how this side doesn't have the experience at the highest level to take that next step. That's the problem. Because they've got as many new managers as the old Chelsea did that was winning Champions League. But the players aren't experienced enough. They don't have that knowledge on the field where they're always looking to the sideline.
14:03And so when you've got younger players who are looking to the sideline and every time they look at the sideline, there's a different face with a different hem sheet. So there's no surprise that they're just struggling to get in the Champions League. Forget winning the Premier League, forget winning the Champions League. This team is kind of rudderless right now and it's not just because they keep changing managers. It's because the players, they're not mature enough and there's not enough of them have that experience in order to pass the knowledge on or to take the next step in terms of going for titles.
14:38But what about winning the FA Cup, Stevie? They are still in the FA Cup. They're taking on Port Vale and you will be able to see that game on ESPN+. On Saturday we have these games, Man City against Liverpool kicking things off. Also Southampton against Arsenal later that day and on Sunday it's West Ham taking on Leeds. A SoFi personal loan is here to help you achieve something once thought impossible. Overcoming high interest credit card debt. Walk the tightrope of your finances with one low fixed rate monthly payment, no fees required and as soon as the same day funding. That's right, pull off your own debt defying stunt with SoFi personal loan.
15:18Visit SoFi.com slash trick to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA. Member FDIC, terms and conditions apply, NMLS 696891. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, They're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities.
15:57Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. So Italy are still reeling from failing to qualify for the World Cup for the third time in a row. And maybe you saw our podcast title this week, which said, All roads lead to home for Italy, and not Rome. Great work from our team there. Pretty much what all the top papers are saying in Italy as well. Let's talk more about this then. Don Hutchison, an adopted Italian. It has to be said, still with us. Luis Garcia with us as well. All right, Don, let's get your reaction first and foremost, because we see that you've been pretty vocal and pretty active on X following this elimination.
16:42Well, obviously, it's embarrassing. You know, I think the conversation would last two or three hours if you're having a serious debate on what's happening with the national side. But when you look on the face of it, it feels like they've lost their DNA. When you close your eyes, you think about the strongest Italian teams. You think about Italian defenders that are rugged. Not like Bastogne or Calafiore where, and I'm not singling them out because they're good footballers, but the Italian defenders were Italian defenders. And they've lost the ability to find the number 10s. They've lost the ability to find Baggio's, find Del Piero's, find Gianfranco Zola's, these guys that were mavericks.
17:18Now, what I would guarantee is that these kids are out there in the schools, these Baggios and these Del Piero's are out there in the schools. So the Italian FA and the teachers and the coaches at a young level have to make sure when they identify these young kids that are ultra talented, is not to knock that out of them and turn them into athletes. Because when you look at the Italian national side now, it feels like they're caught between trying to play like a Premier League type football, where it's a little bit long ball, it's a little bit athletes, it's a little bit runners. Because, you know, if you look at Frattese, for example, he's probably the best number 10 that the Azzurri have got.
17:56He's a runner who runs in the box. He's not Baggio. He's not Del Piero. He's not Gianfranco Zola. He's not an elite maverick number 10 that's ultra-skillful or totty, if you like. So I think the Italian side, when you look at the graphic there, which three World Cups in a row is just an all-time low, So I think when you look on the face of it, these kids have to be out there. I don't buy that the talent's not there. It might have to come for a completely new generation. But the important thing now for the Italian coaches is when they find this group of kids who might be 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, whatever age they are, make them into and let them be the players they want to be.
18:38And don't knock it out of them. And don't say, well, you're not going to make it into Serie A if you can run, if you can fight, if you're six foot find these players embrace that these kids are going to be cultured and being fantastic young footballers and let them express themselves it's a couple of hour conversation but that on the face of it when you think Italian defenders are not rugged enough anymore they're turning into Premier League players where they want to fight and win duels and they're not bringing through number nines and number tens Do you know what Don's on about there? You can look across the planet certainly in Europe particularly, and that's what's happening.
19:15In my opinion, that invention and that... Every great player has something unique about themselves. And it seems all the things done there is basically saying they're getting all that coached at them. Too many young kids, too many players today are getting so overcoached, in my opinion, and that's particularly one of the biggest reasons why the Italians are struggling? Because they don't have any of those players. But they're not alone. You look around Europe, there's not that many. How many players can we sit real and talk about being world class in terms of the final third, in terms of skill, in terms of being as good as all those players that Don spoke about?
19:57There's none. Because they're all getting overcoached. And it's happening across particularly Europe. I can't speak for the African nations, but in terms of Europe, you just watch European football, there's none of those players around. You feel though that in Spain, Luis, we're definitely still seeing these technical players coming through. Is it happening in Spain? Are you seeing anything like that? Yes, it is happening. Of course, we are a country where we've been working so many years on the development of tactical players, on technical players. We don't have that strength or that speed that other countries had.
20:36So we have to adapt to those kind of situations, but we can see it on our academies, on the formation of the players, that in the moment that a kid is a little bit taller and stronger, it's going to be ahead of the one is weaker, smaller, maybe a little bit more technically gifted. But it's going to be put it on the side because what you want when you're a kid and what the manager wants is to get the result. And we are losing a little bit that creativity. If we go back 20 years, 30 years, you could find five, six, seven players with so much talent, quality and technique in every single team. Not three, four, five teams in every single team of the league.
21:16And we can find that because that's the way the football is driving. We are moving to a more faster and stronger. And we want players who, if you have a look, the managers want the players that now get 35, 36 kilometers in a sprint. how many times they are playing, how much time they can be on the field, because they are going to play many games. So in the end, we are looking for that. And we are forgetting that football is about what you do with the ball and how quick you can think. We continue developing a lot of talented players. And I think the Italy should start moving on that direction. Of course, they've got different academies.
21:54They've got a different infrastructure, something that they need to look at. I'm not saying that they have to copy Spain, because that's not work. You have to work with what you got and the style of football that you have. But I think that even Spain has developed, has adapted to the new football. That's why the result are rabbi once again. I think that no long ago we saw exactly the same with Germany. They needed to make a quick transition, a re-adaptation to what football is demanding right now. And that starts from that because if not, it's sad. It's really sad and disappointing to see Italy that has been one of the most iconic national teams in World Cups and in Euros.
22:29don't be involved in a competition like the World Cup in this year. But even with all of this, Xhaka, this record, I mean, it's the only team, it's the only defending champion that's not qualified for three straight World Cups. And while we're finding fault with Italy over the last, that three World Cups somehow managed to win a Euro in between all that as well. So it speaks to, I guess, talent at one level, but a failing on another in terms of qualifying. Now, from an Italian perspective, I always feel we could talk about the over-coaching, but then you see the natural talent shine through with the Spanish national team, with the French national team.
23:09I understand Don's point about athletes and with the English team and how it relates to the Premier League. Now, Italian football, again, is not enjoying its heyday. I'll put that as nicely as I possibly can. And you just wonder how that affects the identity of the world. of this national team. Because while, okay, fair enough, in 2024, they come up against a once-in-a-generational Norway team who were just absolutely outstanding. They finished second. But then they go and blow it to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Four years ago, they finished second to Switzerland. And then they go and blow it against North Macedonia on Italian soil.
23:49Now, in games that they dominated, Norway apart, those games that I mentioned, Italy absolutely dominated. And I just wonder if it's kind of gone away from the Italian stereotype of how they play. Very good defensively, very well organised. But then also, to Don's point, without the finishers that we know Italian football have produced. Team after team, generation after generation, it seems. I think I'm right in saying that in the game against Macedonia, they outshot North Macedonia 32. 2-4, something ridiculous like that. And that speaks to a lack of finishing. You can't give a Baggio or Del Piero 30 shots and not concede six.
24:38And I guess that is where the falling comes down. You do not have those finishers and you do not have an identity to fall back on. You know what, Shaq? You can't argue with the previous two, what you said there. But this game against Bosnia was embarrassing. They got battered. They got battered. Bosnia had 31 shots. They had 31 shots. So the first two, you would think that after the first one, it would be hold on a second. You would definitely think after the second time you don't qualify, we need to clear the boards here and start again. But no, they didn't. And now the third one, you can't say you were unlucky, you can't say you didn't have a finisher, you can't say we defended well, you can't say any of that.
25:24You just got battered and outplayed by Bosnia-Herzegovina, who are a bang average side. So, yeah, I agree with the first two. But this one? No. It's just down to bad football players. That's what it's down to. Francesco Totti's been talking about it, Don, and he says that there's been no distractions in his day. There was no obsession with image, no need to live on social media, just football, just pride, just responsibility to the badge. He even goes on to talk about distraction by fame, by tattoos, by the celebrity lifestyle. But it's not as if, like we're seeing that across the board in all of the countries, we're seeing that all of these players know the celebrity lifestyle now and social media and tattoos or whatever it may be that he's saying here.
26:06Isn't it just coming down to the simple fact that they're just not as good as the Totties and all those players that we grew up watching? Not correct. I think he makes a point from, obviously, the culture that he grew up in. But times have moved on. Times have changed. Young players are free now to express themselves on social media. And they do it. And it's their break away from the pressure. So I get what you're saying because he's an old school footballer like we are. So you can sort of lend yourself to that conversation. But when you know the game's moved on and all players are doing it, you're right, Kay.
Read the full transcript
26:42When you look at the group of players that played the other day, my biggest take when I saw the line-up come in was Rettegui starting for the second game in a row over Esposito. That was the no-no for me. When Rettegui came off in the game before and Esposito came on, who was a bright young player, and it goes against a little bit the grain that was saying, he's physical, he's a big number nine, but he's in form and he's confident. So how Rettegui kept his place over Esposito, I'll never know. but going back to the Calafioris and the Bastonis these are not Bonucci's these are not Chiellini's these are not guys that are willing to die for that shirt and I mean that metaphorically where they would go down to nine men if they needed to but stopping the opposition scoring was the most important thing and making sure you get the job done times have moved on now and players are different and they're built different but it has to be a root and branch thing I go back to the youth it has to be better But you fast forward all that and you go to the conversation why they haven't qualified.
27:42You look at the players and I still think they're good enough. I just think the pressure was too much for them. As soon as I saw that it went to pens, I thought that shirt is a heavy shirt. When you haven't qualified for two World Cups in a row and you've gone to penalties, I never fancied Italy to go through just because of the pressure and how much it really means to the Italian fans and the players and the manager and Gattuso and his backroom staff. It was just too much. and it's something that they've just got to get over and it's a hurdle that they've got to cross and they've got to get over it.
28:13Otherwise, it's going to be four and otherwise it's going to be another Euros. So something has to happen and something has to change. Yeah, make sure to check out the Gab and Jules podcast. A lot more talk about Italy and their failures over there. Check it out wherever you get your podcasts.
28:33Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.
28:48So good, so good, so good. New spring arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60 % off Rag & Bone, Mark Jacobs, Free People, and more. How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Because there's always something new. Join the Nordiclub to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.
29:21Over on the website, Ryan O 'Hanlon has been ranking the 2026 World Cup teams. These are his rankings, and we wanted to cast your eyes over number 22, which is where he puts the United States right now. Obviously, the usual suspects are among the top. They're the ones that are among the favourites when it comes to the oddsmakers as well. But I'm wondering what you guys think, starting with you, Shaq, about United States at 22. Not overly surprising. If we had this conversation earlier in the year, coming off the back of the friendlies of 2024, where the United States beat Uruguay so convincingly, maybe you see them higher up.
30:00But it has been a very disappointing window this time around in those two games against Portugal and Belgium, where I think Pochettino gave us a whole lot more questions than answers in the last window before the World Cup. Added to that, with Turkey looking forward to the World Cup, with Turkey qualifying, which they were favourite too into this group, I'll say the same thing as I did when they made the draw. in that group that includes Australia, Paraguay and Turkey, all four teams fancy themselves to go through, if not top the group. So even as a host, as you sit right now, I'm not overly confident.
30:46I won't put my neck on a chopping block that the US are going to qualify out of this group. Is that too high or too low, though, number 22? Given what we've seen over the last week, that is right where they should be. Do you know that third group from 21 down, from Sweden down? You could just throw them up in the air and the way they landed would be probably right. Because they're all pretty much they're all in the same position. You don't know when they step on the field what you're going to get. You don't. There's not one of them from Sweden all the way down do you know what you're going to get.
31:22From 1 to 20, I think you've got an idea. But that last group I couldn't tell you You know what you're getting from number 26 though Not a lot You know you're getting nothing Is that fair for Scotland Number 26 just while we are here Well they could be 21 Or they could be 30 Because all of those teams You're not scooby what you're getting Too high or too low For you Luis, for the US No I'm with you guys I think that is right there Honestly, I'm surprised because in the last World Cup, when we saw this young generation with all those politics and a generation where we could feel Tylon Adams, they were going to do it.
32:10They were going to be strong. They were going to make a big statement in the World Cup. I was really encouraged and I was really excited about what they could bring. But there's been so many changes. There's been so many things happening in the last four years, well, two years. that I'm really surprised that at this stage, really close, just a few months to the World Cup, we are no more excited about this national team. I don't know what is the real fact why we cannot see the United States closer to being favorite. I understand that they are a lot bigger national teams that they're going to be, of course, favorite.
32:47But I was expecting, we can see Ecuador, we can see Japan, we can see Colombia even ahead of the United States. And I was expecting maybe into the 15th, some closer to that, the United States to be maybe in that situation. But right now, and I agree with Xhaka, it's been a little bit disappointing to see in the last result. But again, things can change very quickly. When you play at home, when you play with your crowd, it's going to be something different. A World Cup is a World Cup. So hopefully we can see a better face of this team. And because the quality is there, so hopefully we can see a better start.
33:24What's your take on it, Don? Too high, too low? I think it's about right. I think what Lewis is saying is right. I think in an ideal world with better form, they should be looking to be in that middle bracket. But when you look at the team that's just above them, Sweden, I mean, they've got Jokeres, they've got Antony Alanga, they've got Alexander Isak. So you look at what the national side of America have got to play with, with all due respect. I think that's it. It is where they are. but I think with a decent World Cup behind them and with form and home fans, as Louis said, they can try and break into that middle bracket.
33:59But I've got no confidence in them. Not that I've seen a million USA games, but I've seen a lot of the other sides that are in the first bracket, second bracket, and Scotland being a few places away from them, I think. And didn't Pochettino said semifinals the other day? Did I read that the other day? Yeah, you did. Semifinals he's aiming for? Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. We believe that we can get the semis. He believes that they can win. OK, as we know, that's Ryan O 'Hanlon's rankings anyway. But when it comes to rankings, there's only one man who we should be focusing on. And that's Shekia Hislop with his power rankings.
34:34Take it away, Shek. As I told you all this week, I think France going to win it. Spain and Argentina, second and third best teams in the world. England, fourth, no question. Portugal, I was impressed with them. This window, so they're up to five, as I was with the Netherlands. Senegal, I think Norway, again once in a generational team, I think they surprised this summer. Brazil and Germany, propping up the rankings at number 10. Right, I've got just one question for you Shaq. Sure. Did you see England recently? I thought that what you saw of England in this window had nothing, looked nothing like what you'd expect.
35:13Do you remember that last list we saw, Paraguay were actually behind Scotland. Paraguay were 27. If they do 1-1 with England. Yeah. And then, wait a minute, Japan. Japan, who were in 20th in that last ranking, beat England. Wembley 1-0. So England, one win, one draw. And if it's the power rankings, how are they even in the top 10? There's something fishy. There's something fishy. That is nothing to do with the England team, I think you'll see. I think Tuka was trying something out. Well, it should be called the power rankings, because that's... Your power rankings are all about what's just happened.
35:47I maintain, I still think those top four are the best four teams in world football. I think those four are the four semi-finals. So I put England, even if they want to put out a C or D team in this window. Yeah, but you came out with all this pattern. Well, up two, down three, up four, sliding in. He's new. You're giving it all that. I didn't see that once. I did not see that once here. You did show you went up to or something. And that means... Who's up? That's recent performances. Who's up to? Which is why I brought England into the argument. Who is up to? The last international win was November.
36:24I never said anybody moved up. Listen, bottom line is, they shouldn't even be the top ten. Recent... Recent... No. They're the fourth best team in world football right now. How's that? They just drew with Paraguay. And they got beat by Japan. If you play your D team, So you want me to judge England on their D team? Phil Foden's in the D squad, is he? Did he play this weekend? Yeah. He's not going to start any World Cup. He did play, yeah. I'm just answering your question. Yeah, I know. I was answering that. Yes. Anybody who played this weekend will not be starting any World Cup or this week, will not be starting any World Cup 11.
37:02Cole Palmer started. Is he not going to? Yeah, he's going to make all the difference. He's the one player. Stevie Caw. It's... Tuchel has... Nobody's denying Tuchel made wholesale changes. I said Cole Palmer, not Arno Palmer. Nobody's denying that Tuchel made wholesale changes and what you saw this week will not reflect in the slightest what you see coming starting to work up. Shaki, can you believe that he's so against England? He was so... Last week's was fantastic. Last week's was spot on. This week... Yeah, I'm surprised you've not squeezed Conno in somehow. You're right. You got complacent.
37:35Well, I think Luis Garcia is quite happy with what he sees.
37:41I just don't get why France has to be on the first spot. I don't know. France are going to win the World Cup, Luis. I'm calling it now. I'm calling it now. France are winning. All right, all right, all right. Okay, that's, I mean, it's a way of seeing. I think that France is, I mean, it's totally, it's your opinion. I think that it's totally fine because France is very strong. I agree that England is going to be, it has something to say. I don't know why the guys are complaining so much. I think that England has got something to say. It's got so much talent and we've seen it in the Euro. Maybe the football is not as dazzling as we could expect, but there is so much talent there.
38:20But Spain has to be at the top right now because of the result, because of the football that has been developed in the last few years. It has to be at the top. Maybe we don't win it anymore or we don't win it this year. But definitely, at least we have to be at the top of that group. Yeah, Don. Stevie's been comparing it to top of the pops back in the day. Places moving up, places moving down, places sticking there. Up to, down to. Who moved from last week? Go ahead, Don. You tell me, you say that. I'm not sure what it's called. So is it called power rankings or future rankings? Oh. Because future rankings is Xhaka looking ahead to what's happening in the World Cup, but the power rankings are what's happening now.
39:01So England just come off a drawn defeat. What's happening now? Dunn's nominating himself to win the power. England have come off a drawn defeat. Friendlies? Friendlies happening now? Is that what we're going on? Well, it's power rankings, yeah? So we're going on friendlies. So if you make all changes for friendlies, you're going to be judged on that? What's power rankings now? I'm just asking. So you make all changes for friendlies. Well, you either win or you lose or you draw. So if you if you play Uzbekistan and win 12-0 you should be top You get credit for winning again. Yep, right so it should be top if you beat us back a stand 12-0, there's two teams and one wins 12-0 and the other wins 5-0 but the opponents harder Then they go ahead of the team that beat Uzbekistan Or you can only be judging what you're doing now apparently you can only be judged by what you're doing now Well, that's what the power rankings is what you're doing now.
39:55So if you beat Uzbekistan I'm not sure you've got the brief there, Shaq. You go top of the rankings, right? I don't understand what your argument is here. Is it now or the future? I mean, I don't ask. So if you beat Uzbekistan now, you go top now. For now or the future? The power rankings, I am judging, that's the top teams going into the World Cup. Those are the top ten teams going into the World Cup. We're going to keep going around in the circle, see ya. Not a popular power ranking from Shaqa this week. It is safe to say. Is this a popular decision? The Premier League's key match incidents panel has come out with their say on the no penalty for Ahmad Diallo.
40:29And by a 3-2 decision, they say the referee got it right not to award Manchester United the penalty. They also rolled 5-0 that VAR should not have got involved on. Foul for me. I mean, it's a penalty for me. I mean, when you see it again and Ahmad's just chopped inside onto his left foot, just about to pull the trigger or pick a pass and he gets his arm pulled and his shoulder pulled and anywhere else on the pitch it's a foul. I mean, I think that's a penalty. Stevie and Xhaka both say penalty. What about you, Luis? It can be called as a penalty, yes. On these days, not everything is maybe a soft, but it's true that he's pushed when he's going to get the shot.
41:15So, yeah, we can call a penalty, but again, it's not a big penalty like Alan Moreno is saying it's a penaltito it's a penaltito a little penalty a soft one I'd love to see these panels I'd love to be a fly on the wall because you know all these I'll tell you what we'll do we'll make it 3-2 we'll give it a close call and then it'll look better because there's five of them I'm assuming you think it's a penalty I'm not getting involved Do you think it's a penalty or not? I'm not getting involved. Why are you so aggressive today? Well, there's four of us, right? Let's take care. There's four of us.
41:56Do you think it's a penalty? Every one of us has said there's a penalty, Kai. And nobody's really got an argument of not being a penalty, really. Even Luis is trying his best to say no, but he can't because it's just a penalty. It's a penalty, though. The aspect I don't quite understand is the 5-3 unanimous ruling that VAR shouldn't intervene. I don't get that. If it's three to two, right? Even if we take it as three to two, so it's kind of down the middle as to whether it should be a penalty or not, is not enough doubt to at least send the referee to the screen to have a look and pass a judgment?
42:36You admit on one hand that there is nearly 50 % of doubt, but then 0 % that VAR should intervene. I don't understand that aspect. I know what you're going to say, that there's two people who say it should have been a penalty but five say VAR shouldn't have gone involved. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So it's nearly 50 % say, well, yeah, it could have been given penalty towards, as Ali and Lewis would say, but then nobody says, well, it's a penalty, but let's not send them to review. That don't make any kind of sense. I wasn't going to say that. I was going to say, how can Shaq be so sensible about this topic?
43:13But yet that last one, he's all over the shop. That's what I was going to say. Two different things. Why are you so aggressive today? Why are you so aggressive? Aggressive Stevie returns on today's Extra Time. You can check it out on our YouTube channel. I'm going on before Extra Time. Yeah, Shaq has sadly had to set for you too. That's just gone.
43:34Start your day with Quaker Protein Instant Oatmeal. The instant oatmeal ready to help you tackle whatever your day brings. Like wrinkling your toddler into their car seat. That was fun. Coaching your sixth grader's soccer team. Go girls! And carrying all the groceries in one trip. Try Quaker Protein Instant Oatmeal, Granola, and Bars. Great taste and a good source of protein. Quaker. Bring out the good. It's crunch time at work and you need to bring wings to your workday. Visit redbull.com slash getting it done and answer a couple questions about your work style to get a Spotify customized playlist tuned to your productivity.
44:17Plus, score a can of Red Bull on us while you go from to do to done. And remember, Red Bull gives you wings. Supplies are limited. Terms apply. Visit the website for more information. Incident from yesterday when Katie McKay brought down Alyssa Thompson by her hair, but no red card was given. There's been upset about this, particularly from Chelsea coach Sonia Bonpastor, who was not happy after the game. As we just take a look back at that incident and get the Chelsea coach's reaction to what we saw on the pitch and the decision that was made.
44:58I brought the phone with me. I don't know if you can see that and that's probably not usual but if you look at this video and I don't know if you can see but for me it's clearly a red card for the Arsenal player. She's pulling Alissa's hair. So I think for me if the VAR again is not able to check that situation I don't know why we have the VAR. yeah Stevie same panel that's why the same panel from the other one yeah it's a red cat I don't I don't I don't hope can I not do anything about that makes no sense checker I fully agree I that's what it's there for that's that's what the technology is there for you know I don't think there's any doubt to that um so how that isn't reviewed is is again it's clear for everybody to see done yeah these are the ones that frustrate you the most when um everyone knows it's a hair pull and it's a red card um and whoever's sitting in the var room have got multiple views they can look at it three or four times you don't it should only take one you should be that clever enough and that, observant enough to spot one hair pull and go, that's a red card.
46:14If you want another look at it, you can. You can take your time. You can spend a minute if you want but you have to come to the conclusion that has to be a red card. These are the ones where, whether it's in the Premier League or Women's Football, Champions League, whatever the level, these are the ones where you scratch your head and think have they not saw that? That's the worry. Have they not seen that? Because everyone else can. That was not a hair pull, Tito. Make sure to stay up to date on everything that's going on in women's football. Podcasts will be available tonight. Alexis Nunes and Ali Krieger are joined by special guest Leanne Sanderson.
46:49Make sure to catch it on ESPN+.
46:54And the best under-21 women's soccer players, an article right now by Yash Thakur on ESPNFC.com. Go and check that out to see the talent that are coming up in women's football. And we have a weekend for you to marvel It's Atletico taking on Barcelona Saturday 3 p.m. Eastern in La Liga. We've seen some decent jewels between these two teams this season. And ahead of it, we heard from Antoine Griezmann in the latest Bicycle Diaries.
47:33With his future already decided, today we're bringing a legend of Atletico to help us through a culinary experience understand the transformation that led Antoine Griezmann to become a key player just before the decisive stage of the season's title race.
48:08and of cheese. Look. Oh. Do you like it? Yes, I like it. I was revolving a lot. How do you see the consistency? What do you do, Chuto? It's a team work. Yes. But yes, yes. Do you know which ones are the best cheese? Those who have more stationery, more experience in life. Yes. Talk a bit about the story of Antoine today. Well, it can be. Much more experience, more tranquility. In the difficult moments that everyone has always been through in the season, I would be a mítico con té, you know? A queso con té. He, for example, he's the blue. He can be the blue. He's like, you know, you're stuck. You're stuck in the same way.
48:51He's like a salad, it was what he played. I never fail the con té. I would be the con té. I like that. Now I have a entreno.
49:06I have another Frenchman who knows a lot. Pass, pass. You don't want a fondue, my friend. What gives you the experience and what is the challenge? I think before he was very focused on myself, and now I'm more open, I understand more my friend. You have to fight for the age or the years that pass, the comments that there are, that they have finished or that they can't play. How was the chat with the Cholo? Was there a chat to talk about the new role? We were talking about the last season, and I told him that he had been very bad in March, when they were eliminated. I didn't know how to turn that back to me, mentally and that's why my last season's season was not able to help the team at the maximum.
50:06It's hard to understand that I'm going to play at least, but when I hit it, I showed that I'm here. What I see in you is a collective perspective. You call Julián and say, come on, you don't see a player who can take off the spot. Do you see that the team is going to be better? Yes, I'm a fan of American sports. in the NFL, baseball and so on. And Tom Brady is what he did to get seven of them, I think. It's not my case, but he gave his money to attract players. Mahomes is what he's doing with his team. I think I want to win and I want to make the best players with me. And if he's playing in the same position, I'll play him, I'll play him or I'll play both.
50:50But I want to win. You have lived a lot of vettings. What's this? They have a lot of talent. I think this team is above the top of those I've lived. Yes, it's the most talented. Yes, at the level of brutal talent, with ballroom and so on. There are players here who have spent a lot of money in the club to bring them. Do we give the last one? Or do you leave the cholo? Yes, it happened, so I can. There are a lot of levels. Much of levels. I want to keep this.
51:35This is the Bicycle Diaries. See you on the next journey.
51:54He's a leader himself. He's brought so much in the spans that he's had with Atleti in his career. It's interesting, Luis, to hear what he had to say about the current locker room, isn't it? Yeah, definitely, because it's really true that it's a very talented team, but I wouldn't say that it's been the best team that has been involved. Totally true that they got quality, that they got talent, that maybe Simeone has been trying to look at something different. Of course, he wants to praise the players that are being surrounded right now. But I think there have been other teams that could have brought something different.
52:30Right now, I see a very strong and a lot of depth into the squad, something that I think is very important for this Atletico Madrid. It's been involved in many, many competitions. And having that depth into the squad is what allows Atletico Madrid to keep on the rest of them. But right now, what they got in hand, of course, is in the vision of being in that Champions League final once again. Yeah, absolutely. There will be a lot more on Atleti-Barca and from Luis tomorrow as we look ahead to that game. Thanks so much for being with us, Luis. We'll let you go and get some rest now. Big weekend ahead.
53:02We've got Mallorca taking on Real Madrid on Saturday morning. And then it is Atleti against Barcelona. Don't forget Atleti knocked Barcelona out of the Copa del Rey this season. but Barcelona also beat them in the reverse fixture in La Liga, so we can't wait to see what happens in their latest encounter. That's all we've got time for on the latest edition of VSPN FC, though. Chakra and Stevie are sticking around 20 of questions. Aggressive Stevie, that is. Don Hutchison will be back with us as well. Something a little bit of camp now. Stick around Extra Times on the way next. Welcome into the latest edition of Extra Time.
53:40Stevie's got an extra little bite in him today, hasn't he? Hasn't he, Shaq? Wasn't happy with the power rankings? So angry. At this point, he was so good last week as well. That's what happens, you know, you can't praise him too highly because this can happen the following week. He's got a wee bit complacent. I've never put England in again. Yeah, don't. Don Hutchison joining us too. Didn't have as much of a problem as Stevie did, but anyway, that's that. Kay, what was the mood like after Italy's loss? Oh, boy. Not good. Oh, she didn't know. She stayed here. She came to work. The only thing I say is my sister's in town at the moment.
54:20My husband was on air from our little basement studio. We could hear the ranting through the walls. Upstairs. That made us chuckle. But, yes, he's not the happiest bunny. It's safe to say. Which goes on to say, Don, which is our resident Italian here, How sad were you watching Italy fail to make it to the World Cup? It was pretty sad. It was sad because the pressure was on and it was like it was unthinkable. It's like surely this team and surely this nation are too good or shouldn't have got themselves in this situation. The group phase was terrible as it was. But going into the playoffs, you're thinking, right, they got the right side of the draw because Wales lost because that would have been a harder place to go, going to Wales and trying to beat them.
55:04But against Bosnia, going down to 10 men, I thought they were very unlucky with it. I thought one of the Bosnian defenders should have had a red card as well. But that's by the by. It was just sad. And then it was watching the reaction coming in on social media. And everyone like, you know, like Matteo was fuming. And watching all the clips coming in and how sort of angry everyone was. And how desperate and sad how everyone was. It was quite tragic. Next question is also for you, Don. It says, what do Inter do with Bastoni on Sunday at the San Siro? I mean, he's been linked with a move to Liverpool, but he's one of these players, Bastoni, that when he wears an Inter shirt, he's really good.
55:45He's not had a great season, don't get me wrong, but previous seasons he's been brilliant in an Inter shirt. But for some reason, he's one of these guys that as soon as he puts the Italian national shirt on, he just goes to bits. He goes to pieces, whether he doesn't like not having the freedom of wandering into midfield, which he's good at, or he feels the pressure, or he can't handle the pressure. Everyone's hammered him for the red card, which it's inevitable it's going to happen, but these things do happen when you get a red card. Add it, you've just got to play him. If you're Inter, you've got to play him into form.
56:18Would you play him, Stevie, knowing that he's just had a red card for Italy? Absolutely. Massive game. Absolutely. The worst thing you can do is not play him. 100%. Okay. Yeah. Guys, what is going on with Phil Foden? Premier League Player of the Year two years ago and now maybe not going to the World Cup and Xhaka called him a D-team player for England tonight. Yeah, he did. Yeah. Bit harsh. What's going on? What's going on, Don? Top of business. To be honest, Kay, I don't think anyone knows because we've been looking at this same Phil Foden now for 12 months and everyone that knows the game knows he's an unbelievable player.
56:54I mean, one of the best number 10s when he takes the ball on the back foot in the Premier League. But for 12 months, he's been quiet, whether it's, I don't know, I don't want to speculate in terms of anything to do with his personal life or whether he's just burnt out or he's just absolutely shattered. I think including Pep, everyone's trying to put a finger on why he can't get at his best level because his best level is better than most. We spent the first part of the show talking about the Italian number nines and Griezmann would be in that conversation with a legendary player he'll be and has been when he retires, everyone will look back and think, Griezmann, brilliant player.
57:30Same with Phil Foden, but he's got to start finding it, Kay. There's only so many times we can try and second guess what's going on, whether it's something personal or burnt out or lack of form or his confidence crisis, but at some point as a player, you've got to snap out of it. It would seem that Pep's lost trust in him. I don't recall Foden playing three or four games on the trot this season. Last year seemed like an anomaly. It was like, how did that happen? But you could understand it because of how bad City were. Obviously guys in the final third, they're generally when the team's struggling.
58:12They're the ones that see less of the ball than all the other stuff. But it would seem to me that Pep's lost trust in them, which has to affect the player. You know when you go from you know you're playing to I'm even gonna get off the bench today. So you can't expect somebody to all of a sudden stick a different colour jersey on and be at their best. Plus you look at England and now he's got Cole Palmer and Bellingham ahead of him. I mean you only take three players that play in that position. So yeah it's tough to beat your finger on it but I don't think Pep's helped him too much. But at the same time, surely Pep has seen him on the training ground and knows what form he's in or not, as the case may be.
58:55It's a difficult call to see which point. Pep doesn't have to play Foden because Foden was really good a couple of seasons ago. Foden has to show up every single day in training and prove that he's worthy of that selection. Shaq, I'm not a big fan of that. I've played with guys who, during the week in training, were buying average every day. but it would be the first guy you'd want standing next to you. I'm not so sure I go. We don't get confidence to playing well in training, honestly. We get confidence when we step on the field and we play on the field, in my opinion. But to that point, so let's say, for argument's sake, I sure don't know, Foden is one of those that's not great in training.
59:39But then, it's not at all Foden's fault, but City are playing well. Foden comes on, maybe he doesn't have that confidence, he's not playing well. Pep has to change something. And Foden, if he's not playing well on Saturday, not training well, he's probably going to be one of those sacrificed. Alright, next question for you Don. What are your thoughts about Lukaku and Napoli? And obviously if you've not seen these reports, there's been the news that he failed to report for training after the international break? Oh boy. Yeah, don't know why. Don't know what the story is in terms of how deep you go with the story.
1:00:21Was there something personal going on? Was there a fallout between him and Conte or the hierarchy at Napoli? But to not show up is a strange one. That's probably happened in the past many, many, many years ago. 80s, 90s. I can't recall that for a modern day pro. that's not turned up for training and made headlines and then we're still waiting on answers to why that is so that's one where I think it'll it'll play out and we'll find out in coming days I would imagine. Yeah we're seeing that the report stating that on his social media he stated he would never turn his back on Napoli but emphasised his need to be 100 % clinically fit after a mentally and physically taxing season so we'll keep our eye on this one and what's happened in the weekend ahead ready this is aggressive steve again oh get ready this is about to be turned off oh it's such an immense exhausting season ready ready for your next one because i know you're annoyed about this i mean what's that stevie is center back really the easiest position to play like mbappe says i'll tell you what what What is Zimbabwe?
1:01:3527? What an ignoramus. What a completely and utter ignoramus to come out and say something like that. He wouldn't know the first thing about defending. The guy who doesn't want to defend. The guy who knows nothing about it. So if you know nothing about something, how can you have such an opinion on it? Yeah, Milan was so bad because Beresi was so bad as well, wasn't he? Beresi was crap. Hey, you're trying to tell me Beresi. Hey, seriously. There's not an Italian breathing that wouldn't want Beresi playing for this Italian side. The easiest position to play. What's a lot of garbage? I mean, it really isn't.
1:02:19He didn't say he was bad. Maybe Beresi was amazing because it's so easy to play at centre-back. That's a really ignorant thing to say. If Mbappe, listen, if Beresi came out and said, you know what? I think centre back's the easiest position to play. Man, you can't really argue. You can't really argue, can you? He did it. Got the t-shirt. If he says it's easy, then you know what? I'll give him a... I'll say it's easy. But not somebody who could... He wouldn't know. In fact, you know when he goes past the halfway line and he gets a nosebleed? This guy. Seriously. It's really annoying that people saying things like that.
1:03:00KU1 Naughty. What did I do? I read the question. Let me get this right. Are you saying it's not the easiest position? I'll tell you what. If I turned around and said, you know the easiest position is goalkeeping. What would you say? What would you say if I said, you know what, goalkeeping is easy. All you do is stand there half the time. In fact, if you're playing a good team, you don't even need to ball a tournament up half the time. So what is the easiest position, Stevie? No such thing. There's no such thing as an easy position. After centre-back. There's no such thing as an easy... What's his second easiest position?
1:03:37It's just... The thing is, coming from him, it's not really a surprise, is it? Oh, God. Fuming. I'm fuming because it's me, me, me. He's only interested in him. Get me the ball. Yeah, but if they could just do their easy job better, then all he'd have to do is for less goals to save the team. You know who I blame for, Liz? Me. Yeah. If I'd left England on the power rankings, we'd have just been moving on smoothly. Mbappé's favourite line is, Yeah. Do what you can do for me, not what I can do for you. That's his motto. Why are you looking so serious? I know, yeah. Why not do you? I'm trying to win for that.
1:04:21Yeah. She's teed you up there, Stevie. She's teed you up well there, Stevie. So annoying. So annoying. when people come out with things like that. It's honestly not often off air he talks football, but tonight he brought this one up before we went on, so I couldn't wait when I saw it in the list, because he'd seen it and Mbappe had said it. What a cheeky cheeky cheeky. Oh, that was so good. Wonderful stuff. All right. Now that you've finished talking about Easy Street of being a centre-back, who are the guys' dark horses for this year's World Cup? And we're going to classify dark horses as a team that's never won the World Cup.
1:04:57Norway. Yeah, Norway. I agree with you there. Yep. They could beat anybody. No way ahead of Portugal. Why would you pop that list? Everybody there's one they woke up. No way ahead of Portugal, Don. No way ahead of who, Kay? Portugal. Can you call Portugal a dark club? No, they've never won the World Cup. If that's what we're using as the criteria. I'm going with Norway. I'm going with Norway over Portugal. Dan, good show. Wow, well that's exactly why Xhaka is involved in those silly power rankings if he thinks Norway are a better side than Portugal. Portugal's not a dark course. I think Portugal will be a dark course.
1:05:43If we're using the criteria that it's a team that's never won the World Cup. I'm still putting Norway above Portugal. Well, don't put dark course in it then. just put a team that's not won the World Cup there we go we'll simplify it what do you think of Portugal centre-backs
1:06:02alright obligatory percentage question for Don Spurs' chances to avoid relegation my ribs are hit at me
1:06:14well now they've got a proper manager in they stand a better chance it's just how much work can De Gea be doing on the training ground.
1:06:24I think it's one of three. I think it's 33 and a third. I think it's them, Forrest and... West Ham. West Ham. Couldn't call it. Yeah, couldn't call it. Okay. Would you rather give up your phone or TV for a year? TV, easy. Easy. Easy. I don't watch a whole lot of TV anyway. Everything you get on TV, you get on your phone. Yeah. I don't watch a whole lot of TV. So that's an easy decision for me. Easy? Keep the TV, you can't even phone him, do. What about YouTube? Give up your phone or YouTube? A TikTok. Yeah, he loves TikTok, doesn't he? What about you, Grant? Well, you can't walk around the street with a TV on your shoulder, right?
1:07:07No. Do you know what I mean? You can try it. The rest of the TV's there, look at that size. He'd tick to you. Done. Biff my phone off. Biff it off. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I'm end of season, I'm coming off X and all that sort of rubbish, spent too much time on it. So biff the phone, watch loads of TV, watch Seinfeld, watch Only Fools and Horses, watch all the classics, biff off the phone. How are we going to get in touch with you to come on the show and talk about Italy and Sunderland and Newcastle and all those things? Keep the phone, keep the phone, keep the phone, bin the TV.
1:07:47Easy decision for the guys here. Easy like playing centre back. Just like Mbappe said. That's all we've got time for. Hold on. Centre back, yeah. Has it kicked off yet? Thank you so much for sending in some wonderful questions tonight, guys. You're doing well. Oh, boy.
1:08:17From 30 for 30 podcasts.
1:08:27Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami. Gunned down. The key to this case, it's Brian. An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing with somebody. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction. She's been placed under arrest. We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now.
From the publisher
The FC crew look back at Marc Cucurella's quotes on how Chelsea is run as a club, including investing in younger players & sacking managers more often than other clubs. Plus, the panel continues to reflect on Italy missing out on their 3rd straight World Cup. And, Shaka's international power rankings as well as Ryan O'Hanlon rankings of the countries qualified for the World Cup.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices