Controversy & Errors in Manchester

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0:34Hello, everyone, and welcome into the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Alexis Nunes alongside Shaka Hissop, and you know we have to kick things off in the Premier League because today was the day for the 199th Manchester Derby, where Manchester City claimed quite the dramatic 1-0 Derby win. A couple of big controversial decisions starting in the 23rd minute, Shaka, when Phil Foden was given a straight red card. For reacting to Bruno Fernandes' kick in the back, I have no problem with the red card for Phil Foden. But Bruno Fernandes, for me, should have seen red as well. Well, the controversy did not stop there because in the second half, Erling Haaland appeared to score what eventually was the winner for Manchester City.

1:15However, Enzo Fernandes appeared to be in quite the offside position. VAR definitely reviewed the goal and said it will stand Xhaka. I thought it was an awful decision. There's no question Enzo Fernandes was in an offside position, that he was interfering with Lissandro Martinez. How or why this goal stood is simply beyond me. You could see it. You could see it there in real time. Yeah, but in the end, that goal stood, and Manchester City take this Manchester derby 1-0. Now let's get some post-match reaction. Here's Michael Carrick. Start with the goal. How surprised were you that it was given you in the first place?

1:55Yeah, at the time I hadn't totally seen it. But the explanation I got was he wasn't interfering with play. I just don't get it. I really don't get it. I can't understand how we're trying to help referees and putting so many layers behind them. So many people and so many bodies and so many screens and so many wherever offices they are. to try and come up with the right decisions. And if that's how the rules are interpreted, that you're not interfering with a player because you've thrown yourself at the ball six yards from goal and pretty much nearly touched it, which then Leitcher has to react from, I just, on top of that, the line was a bit dubious where they drew the line to start with.

2:37I just, it's worrying if that's, really it is, if that's how the game's seen by those who are officiating it. All right, so no doubt that that was the biggest talking point following this game. Now, let's have a look at what the PL Match Center said about that decision to award the goal by Erling Haaland. It says the VAR also deemed that while in an offside position, Enzo Fernandez didn't play the ball. Well, IFAB then said, look, offside if preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball.

3:11Very interesting because since then, the Premier League refereeing body pro ref has admitted that an error was indeed made. It says it was established that Enzo Fernandez did not play the ball and therefore that makes any offside offense subjective. However, on this occasion, the VAR did not recognize the likely impact of his position and should have recommended an on-field review. Contact has been made with Manchester United this evening to acknowledge what we deem is an era of judgment. A review of the incident will take place. All right, let's get into it, shall we? Round one, ding, ding, ding.

3:52And we have brought in Mark Ogden and our Frank LaBeouf. Oggy, let me start with you there first, because of course there has been quite the fallout since this decision. Yeah, well, I was at the game today and I was speaking to people at United after the game and they were gobsmacked by what had happened. And I think everybody in the ground was shocked by how it played out because it was fairly obvious that Enzo Fernandes was offside. So the explanation that we got at the time was that he wasn't interfering with playlists, didn't stack up. You've read out the IFAB rules there, whereby if a player is challenging for the ball or if you're stopping an opponent from getting the ball, he's interfering or he's active.

4:27So he was offside on both counts. So there was an element of shock and there was a bit of rumours during the rounds that the Premier League had realised that it was awarded in error. but I didn't expect so quickly, less than three hours after the game had finished for Pro Ref, who are the new name for the PGMOL, the kind of mouthful of words that we used to call them, Pro Ref, have admitted that it was a mistake. Now, it was a mistake but the fallout is going to be huge because it's one of the biggest games in world football, not just the Premier League, it's a huge game. It's two massive rivals.

4:57And listen, Man United aren't going to challenge for the title this year but it could have implications for Michael Carrick down the line but equally it could have implications in the title race. Man City are now two points better off than they would have been had this been a draw. So if it's a tight title race, those two points could decide who wins the title this year. Now, that's all ifs and buts. But ultimately, at the end of the day today, the VAR had a massive mistake. And it's going to have big ripples all the way down the line. Yeah, it really does leave a bad taste in your mouth, Frank.

5:27Yeah, I absolutely agree with Mark. and I'm very appalled by the refereeing association, I would say, overall, because we can talk about Arsenal yesterday with Manchester United. And when I hear and I read what our producer sent me today, saying that Enzo Fernandes didn't make any impact in the action, yes, of course, Martinez is just behind. He slows down because he sees that Fernandes is already offside. And then Fernandes wouldn't have been there. it would have kicked the ball away to make sure that Erling Allen is not touching it. So of course there is an impact. Therefore, there is an offside.

6:03Therefore, I don't understand what the people are doing either on the field or in the booth because really they don't understand anything in football. That was clear. That was known. We knew the new rules. We knew what happened. I don't get it. Really, I don't get it. And after three hours, we acknowledge Manchester United that we screwed them up. Sure. Fantastic. Well done. Yes, Xhaka, let's come to you now. Because, of course, as we keep reminding, everyone used to be a part of IFAB. But as Frank was saying, it's almost ridiculous now. How does this happen when they're supposed to be training, there's so much talk, everything, everyone, they keep reassuring us that everyone's on the same page.

6:42So how does this happen? I think it's just a lack of common sense in the game by the officials. And I say that because this is not the first time this season. By my rough count, this is the third or fourth time. I'm saying that by the letter of the law okay maybe it's a goal or it's a foul or whatever it may be but in footballing terms it simply isn't now if even as the referees whether we're talking PGM well or pro ref whatever name you want to give them at this point you have to acknowledge that you cannot write a law that covers every single instance in the game that every single thing that may happen in the game So common sense has to be a part of refereeing.

7:27And again, for the third or fourth time in fourth match day, we are seeing that the referees have failed to apply common sense in a situation where it was desperately needed. Now, how anybody could look at that? I don't care what the law says. Let's stop running to the law and pointing to this and this phrasing and then this other body comes out and says, nobody can look at that and say that Enzo Fernandez is not interfering with the play. I really don't get that. And now we have two different bodies coming out at about three different times to make statements to try to clear up what everybody could see.

8:12What was wrong? Just allow referees to use their common sense in interpreting the black and white of the law and understanding that. Frank? Chaka, in order to have common sense, you have to understand the football. You have to have the feeling of the football. And that's the problem. Those people, they're not there because they understood this. They're there to just use the rules. And with not their feelings because they don't have any impact when they are on the field. They wait for the booth. They wait for the law. But they don't have the common sense because we can see it. It's clear. It's obvious.

8:48And really, nowadays, in order to use VAR in the right amount, to avoid many problems, you can have some problems, you can have little problems, you cannot have big problems every day of a football game. You should, and I'm sorry, it's maybe an advice, you should take former players to maybe advise them because they don't have that feeling. And we're going to talk about Fernandez and Foden incident. incident. It's about feeling. You can feel that the guy reacts because of something. So that's insane for me that we are in 2026 and you just allow referees to give their advices when they don't have the common sense that we are talking about.

9:33Augie, as we know that there's going to be a review, as you said, that there's probably going to be a bit more of a fallout from this, but are there any likely repercussions? What can actually come from this? well nothing really I mean that's the problem that you know fans will say the game should be replayed but that is not going to happen because once you replay a game for one VAR mistake then every weekend there'll be games that will need to be replayed because it happens all the time so all that'll happen is that the pro ref head Howard Webb who's you know he's trying to make things better he used to be in the MLS he's trying to make things better he will apologize he will say we'll try and get it better next time I was at a briefing with Howard Webb about a month ago an hour-long briefing at the Premier League headquarters.

10:10He was making the point that he really wanted his referees and his VARs to have a higher bar for intervention. He didn't want them, in his words, to be as busy as they have been in the last couple of years. He wanted them to take a step back. Now, the linesman put the flag up, so he got the decision right, but still the VAR and his assistant interfered. Now, for me, this is the biggest mistake of the Premier League year with VAR. I can't think of a bigger one because it was so black and white. I know Shaq has talked about hiding behind the rules, but the laws that we saw then, on each count, he was offside.

10:39There's no law, there's no kind of clause in this that said he might not be offside because of this. He was challenging for the ball, he was blocking Martinez from getting the ball, so on both counts he's offside it's a double offside, and he's still being allowed to be onside. Now clearly the ramifications are that in future, in future the refs will have to learn the laws a bit better, but they're supposed to know the laws anyway. But from United's point of view nothing. And I guess that Mikel Arteta will have something to say about it because he was complaining about the penalty at Sunday, rightly so but you know, like I said before if the title race is tight, it comes down to two points and City with the league by two points, this will not go away.

11:12So this is a massive, massive mistake, which is why I think it's the biggest I've ever seen because of the ramifications but also because it's such a simple one that they got wrong. There's not any nuance in this. They've just got it massively wrong. Wow. I haven't seen Argy that fired up in a minute. I will disagree though. I think over the course of 38 games as players, even in this VAR era you accept that a lot of these things will come Martin Uwash. So while City have benefited today hugely, nobody's disputing that. Manchester United have benefited by one call that I thought was decidedly dodgy in Manchester United against Ipswich.

11:56And the goal by, what's his name again? Defender. The goal, the own goal. Maguire. The Maguire's handball and shot and own goal. I thought that was iffy. Secondly, again, I thought Bruno Fernandes, and while I, yes, Phil Ford should have been sent off, Bruno Fernandes could quite, I think that was more a red than it was a yellow. So while we're here debating the goal as it was scored, and rightly so, there are already a couple of incidents, I think. you can make a well not as strong an argument but similarly you can say Manchester United benefited from those and then the truth is Alexis let's be honest Augie Manchester United didn't deserve to win this game today are they?

12:48no absolutely I suppose they'd rather lose by fermions than foul I guess but you're right they had an extra player advantage for over an hour and they didn't take advantage of that but just on that red card the reason why Bruno Fernandes stayed on the pitch is because the VAR decided it wasn't enough to merit a red card and the VAR can't tell the referee to issue a yellow card. So in their eyes, it didn't cross the threshold of violent conduct. So it couldn't be booked, but it couldn't be red carded either because in their eyes, it wasn't violent conduct. What they should have done, they should have said to Michael Oliver, the referee, look, we're not sure about this one.

13:23He may have kicked Phil Ford and have a look at it and then he could have dealt with it. He could have either said, yes, it's a red card or no, it's not. But they didn't even ask the referee to go and review it. So again, they've messed up. Frank, I know you want to get in on this, especially on the decision to give Phil Foden a straight red card. What did you think? That's a joke. That's a joke as well. I mean, we clearly see Bruno Fernandes kicking the bottom of Foden before Foden reacts. So Foden's reaction, it's not acceptable. Yes, you couldn't do Sean Regman. I'm fed up with the football where you see that reaction are only the things punished instead of the action.

14:03And who starts the action is absolutely Bruno Fernandes, who shows clearly that if he has class with the ball, he's a cheater when he hasn't got the ball. And I'm fed up with those behaviors because the guy kicks the bottom, the bottom, and then falls down for almost, yes, a reaction, but almost nothing. He's barely been hit. So he should have been a red card. let's say for me, for both of them. And congratulations to Manchester City, the way they played the whole game long, deserving not maybe the three-point because of the offside, but at least a draw. But what Bruno Fernandes did was unacceptable, and the referee's decision is even more.

14:51It's unbearable. So that's insane for me. Yeah, no, I agree. As I said earlier, for me, it's either two red cards or two yellow cards. Which one do you think, if you had to make the decision? Given the context is a derby, they expect some fireworks. Given the context that is a derby, I'd prefer to see two yellow cards. Kind of just understanding the nature of the game, the nature of the Premier League. But what you cannot do is one red card to Phil Foden and that's the Bruno Fernandes. I don't get that at all. So either you try to, because it's early-ish in the game, roughly 25 minutes on the clock, and you do want this game to get out of hand, and you say, well, you issue two red cards, fine.

15:35If you say to yourself, listen, this is a derby, and this is English football, and this kind of plays into the history of English derbies, I issue two yellow cards. But what, for me, I don't understand is one red card for Phil Foden and nothing for Bruno Fernandes. Aki, what would you have given? Yeah, I think with Xhaka, I think two yellows, bearing in mind the context of the game, that it's a Manchester derby. And I must admit, even though Foden was wrong to kick out, I think Bruno Fernandes made a meal of it. I think he overreacted. So he kind of triggered the red card a little bit by his reaction.

16:10I think Foden's contact was slight. Listen, you can't react like that. But Enzo Marescu, the city manager, said it was a red card, to be fair to him. But he also said that Bruno should be sent off as well. But I think because it was early in the game, I think because tensions were high, you want to see games between 11 men rather than 10. I'd have given two yellows, but you can't have one getting a red and the other one not getting nothing. Alexi, I tell you, in our time, in our time, you know, Shaka and myself, and I know David Ginola was at the game and talked about that on the French television, and he said it would have been a little fight, you know, no yellow for nobody because it's a derby, and he gives the spice that you need.

16:50That's what it is. And that's appalling for me. That's really sad. Not appalling, but maybe sad to see that the change of the game is because of that kind of reaction. It's part of a derby. You need that intensity. You need kind of, you know, something goes a little bit out of the football and will make people be intense for 90 minutes. And we saw the change of scenario that we didn't want to see. So it's only sad for me. Overall, now, we'll put the two controversial decisions aside, Augie, because you were there at the game and just talk about the game itself now because I think Shekka asked me the right question.

17:25Of course, when you put those two decisions aside, do you think Manchester United even did deserve a point in that one considering City went down to 10 men so early on in the first half and it just seemed like United couldn't really find their way at all? No, I think today showed that Enzo Mureska is just a cut above Michael Carrick as a coach. I think Mureska saw the situation. He changed the tactics. He sat deep. he made United kind of play onto City rather than play on the counter-attack and United run out of ideas and the one thing that struck me about United was how one-paced they were today there was no kind of dynamism in the team there's no kind of explosivity that you're watching players thinking, you know, make something happen and it didn't happen and, you know, Mureski just bossed the game with his tactics and City kind of sat deep and hit them on the counter-attack and then they got the goal so, for me, United are poor and if I was a United supporter I'd be kind of concerned because you've got people like Harry Maguire is now a regular in the team, Marcus Rashford is back.

18:21Two players at United have tried to sell in the last couple of years and they had no joy, they brought them back. Luke Shaw's not fit again. They've had a summer at United where they've kind of tried to rebuild on the cheap and all their rivals have spent a lot of money. I think it showed today, I think they were lacking quality. I think overall we saw a team that's going to challenge for the title and a team in United who will do well to get in the Champions League this season. But United hit the post a couple of times, But for me, they were never really threatening to win the game after Phil Foden was sent off.

18:48Jack, is it down to that? Mariska got his tactics right? Yeah, I certainly think so. And I think in certain ways as well, City players, especially Pouze is sending off, were a bit more up for this. And I say that because you look at when Foden sees the red and, you know, everything starts happening around Phil Foden. Erling Haaland kind of comes over and tells him, listen, come off. You know, you got the red card, you're off. as if to say we'll take care of it from here. And that's what City did. I also wanted to acknowledge that we could be having a very different conversation about this game because of those City chances.

19:25Hit the woodwork twice. They say from Donnarumma later on from Mbwebo. We could be having a very different conversation. But let's be honest here. If we take the chances out of this, if we take the goal out of this, I just thought in terms of football and who I thought were the better team, City were better. I just don't feel Manchester United did enough in that regard. Rashford free kick from a long way out, Manu shot from 25 yards out, then the Leighton Buemo chance. I just don't feel United did enough, especially considering you're at home, you're a man up for 35 minutes. They didn't threaten City anywhere near as much as I feel they should have.

20:16That's going to be a big concern, isn't it, Frank, then, for Michael Carrick? Yes, because I didn't see the reaction. I found that he didn't have any solution, that he couldn't find the right tactic, because the players were into it. I mean, when you are 11 against 10, I mean, as Mark said, you have to change the pace of the game. You have to travel. And City seems to be so comfortable with the ball. Like they were at least even or maybe one players more. That was insane. How tactically the players themselves in the middle of the field couldn't deal with each other for a bigger pressure on everybody who had the ball for City.

20:58It couldn't match. Maybe City were too strong technically. They knew how to make themselves available. But that was a lesson of football. When City had the ball, they were doing whatever they wanted with one man less. That's insane. And I'm still wondering some hours after if it was Manchester United were so poor or City were too strong. I don't know. Hopefully for Manchester United, it was because that was a day off. but really that wasn't very nice to see I'll highlight a couple of players for City I thought Elliot Anderson was good in the middle of the park for City and then once Foden was sent off you bring off Cherky to bring on Indy who, different type of player of course, than Cherky but Thor his mobility in the middle-ish of the park because he's also playing that 10 in supporting erling hard but then having to drop a whole lot deeper and support through midfield i thought and die was outstanding in in that circumstance and also had a big role to play in in the goal long ball comes come it comes forward um he holds the ball up really well uh and plays in some menu and then the goal kind of comes from from from around that so and i a player who is thrown in um in this moment when when you're a man down i thought he did everything that that was needed of him and just showed maybe the difference.

22:25Mark touched on the signings of the summer. Those two I think kind of showed why City took me three points today. Augie, who stood out for you from Manchester City? I've got to say Enzo Fernandes. I thought as the game wore on, he sensed the changing momentum of the game and he really drove City on. He's got a real personality and I think that's what City had today. They had personality and character and I think they They sensed when the game had to turn up a level. And United didn't have that. They didn't have the same sort of players. They had players on the pitch who were looking around for inspiration.

22:59I thought Enzo Flan has brought the inspiration to City. He drove them on. So, yes, he went for a big fee. But I think you saw today why Enzo Marescu was so keen to get him. Because he made a difference. And he dragged his teammates to the win, I thought, today. Frank, I think someone told me you very politely put your hand up. Like a little boy in class. You wanted to join in? No, no, I want to join I want to join Xhaka On Ndai when he came on I have to say that it's crazy But just before Erlingerland scored the goal I said, why did Mareska put out Cherokee and Erlingerland is completely Useless, he doesn't defend, doesn't keep the ball Blah, blah, blah, well, he scored the goal Like two minutes after, I said, well, my bad My bad, it's okay But Anderson was exceptional in the middle of the park Yeah, Enzo Fernandes Did the job as well, I agree with that I even have had time to give him some flowers.

23:51But I found in the middle of the park they were doing absolutely great, knowing exactly what to do. Semenyo also helped a lot and was tremendous. But it's overall everybody. I mean, it's always somebody who can do something good and be good. I mean, don't forget Donnarumma, what he did a couple of times. And that was a team effort. That was a great team effort. that's something that they're going to use a lot. Congratulations to Enzo Mareska as well because he made the right substitution and the right tactic post-sending off. So that was a great game from Manchester City. Augie, what about for Manchester United now?

24:31Of course, we saw Marcus Rashford had his moments as well. He, of course, rattled the woodwork. Kabi Mainu too. Who stood out for you for trying to find some positives? How long have we got? who's select for Man United today you know I thought Kobe Mayne was okay for large parts of the game I think he ended up having to do the job of three plays in midfield because Enzo Fernandes and Tielemans were kind of a bit more advanced I thought Kobe Mayne showed why with a bit of run of games he can do well for United but I think overall what we saw with United was that they're just not a very good squad and there's not a lot of depth there and like I said the one thing that really struck me was the lack of pace there's no pace in the team, Marcus Rashford is the only player with pace.

25:12Matthias Cunha, Brian and Bumo, Cesc, Bruno, they're all the same. They're all kind of not quick. They're good with the ball. So I think if you're at that end of the game, you need a lot of patience inside to kind of get past teams and score goals. And City, for me, had pace and they were comfortable with the ball. And it was night and day, really, the difference between the teams. And I think although City's win was kind of earned by an error, they deserve to win in the end. Well, that's about as positive as we're going to get from Mark Ogden today. But Frank, I mean, Ogden is right to be like that because we were talking about the passion that you feel when you're playing in a Manchester derby as well.

25:44The fact that United, you know, had the man advantage for so long in the game and you still didn't see that urgency, you still didn't see that grit, that fight, especially when you felt they had the advantage. So, who would you be demanding more from this Manchester United? Well, I want to congratulate the fans first, you know, being too upset with their players because there was a reason why, you know. I mean, it's a derby, you play 11 against 10 and You don't show more talent than that. But I'm very fan of Maynou. I mean, the supplier is a different class for me. I remember when he was sitting on the bench under Amorim and I was getting crazy because that guy is exceptional.

26:22And I like the behavior, the Marcus Rashford behavior. I like what he wants to do. We can see that he wants to do more, that he wants to show his commitment to Manchester United. I love the new post-Barcelona, Marcus Rashford. But overall, it's hard to say who was good. There's nothing to complain about Le Mans. But otherwise, at the back, they didn't have too much to do, but they didn't bring enough. I saw sometimes, at the end, they were playing like rubbles. I saw Martinez with the ball, 90 minutes, 30 yards away from the ball, almost not knowing what to do. instead of going right or left, he was trying to find somebody in the middle, like three yards away from him.