Did Pep Get it Wrong in Madrid?

15:15Dan Thomas:This is the third show in a row and we're still talking about this game. But that's because it was quite a surprising result. Even from the Real Madrid perspective, considering how they've been playing in La Liga. Trent Alexander-Arnold had this to say. I think the size of the game is the main thing. I don't want to say that the other games are less important. But But when there's so much hype around a game and so many eyes on it, as a player, you know you need to perform, especially when you play for a club like this. There are no excuses. You have to win. Stevie, your thoughts on what Trent had to say about this one?

15:49Nedum Onuoha:Seriously.

15:53Nedum Onuoha:You know, when you play for elite clubs, you have to have that sort of attitude and every time you step on the field. That type of attitude and mentality is expected every time you step on for a team like Real Madrid or a team like Liverpool. If a room to come out and say that, I mean, really? Really? It annoys me to think about a player who's played for Liverpool, played in the Champions League final, who's now at Real Madrid and comes out with clap trap like that, because that's what it is. Because you have to turn up every single time. And he's basically telling you there that he doesn't do that.

16:31Dan Thomas:Yeah.

16:32Nedum Onuoha:That's what he said, which is a joke. Which is a joke. It tells you it's a guy that has ability that doesn't produce it every single time he gets on the field because he doesn't have the mentality to do it. That's an annoying thing for me. Well, Stevie, it's confirmation of what we suspected and probably already knew about Real Madrid. That there are games that are more important than others. and there are games in which they simply are not all that interested. And so one way to sort of frame that is to say magical knights of Champions League and Santiago Bernabéu. Okay, Martin Einstein. And how Real Madrid in Champions League is a completely different animal.

17:21Nedum Onuoha:That's one way. I thought he was going into Dracula there. I know, I know. That's really Dracula. I know, I know. But that's sort of how it's pictured and sort of put out there. The other way to look at it is that, yeah, you're so poor against Getafe, or you're so poor against this other team, or that team, or Osasuna, whatever the case may be, that then come Champions League, you elevate your performance, and then you're like, whoa, oh. So this team has it in them. And in order for Real Madrid, or for any team for that matter, to be considered a great team, it cannot be that your great performances are the exception to the rule, are the outlier.

18:02Nedum Onuoha:It has to be that most of the time you're performing at a high level. There may be times in which there's a downturn. There may be times in which things didn't go your way, and that's understandable. But your outlier cannot be your great performance. Your outlier has to be your poor performance. And this is essentially what Trent Alexander-Arnold is telling us, is that for this big night, everybody's ready everybody's ready to go we're all pretty we're all it's all sexy here we go 100 in all committed all hands on deck for the hetafenites not so much not so much and natum

18:39Dan Thomas:trend would never get away with saying something like this in england imagine speaking about that about the premier league games week in week out and saying look we'll turn it up for liverpool but midweek for the Champions League?

18:51Shaka Hislop:Yeah, to be honest, I think the guys have made two very, very good points there. And to sort of piggyback on Ale's one, like the outlier should be the negative performance, not like the positive one. And in some ways, maybe this is the reason why Real Madrid are second in the table. Having been in a position, was it just six weeks ago, where they were topped by a couple of points when Barcelona seemed like they were going in the wrong direction. And not to make this like too negative as such, but I'll be honest, from that game on Wednesday, like Fede Valverde is obviously the man of the match from the game for the hat-trick but there's also a lot of defensive work which he was doing on that right side which made a huge difference in terms of how Rembrandt were defending because I think from the clips that we've seen already as well Jeremy Docky, especially in that first 20 minutes, was having a whale of a time so I think for Alexandre Arnold to speak in that manner about the bright lights, you have to win, you have to perform I've seen him have far better games than that in itself but he's maybe playing into this idea it's Real Madrid, it's the Champions League, it's springtime, this is when they come alive.

19:50Shaka Hislop:But that La Liga title will matter as well. If they're going to be losing it again to Barcelona, I think maybe it's going to be the type of attitude that maybe he's hinted at there in his statement.

19:59Nedum Onuoha:Just a sister thingy on that. What he should be saying, Trent Alexander, is we need to do what we did tonight.

20:06Dan Thomas:Week in, week out.

20:07Nedum Onuoha:Week in, week out. That's what he should have been saying. Instead, he said the complete opposite. Yeah. And just to set a very clear standard as to how low the opinion is of Real Madrid fans, of Trent Alexander-Arnold defensively, he won a header sometime in the first half against Manchester City. And the whole city was like, yes! Si! Vamos! One header. One header. One challenge. And they're all clapping because they're exciting to see him playing somewhat of a defensive role. That's how low the standard has been for him.

20:46Dan Thomas:Well, Trent definitely didn't give us the best promotion for La Liga week in, week out, which I hope you join us for on ESPN every week in and week out. But Ale, coming up next, Real Madrid have Elche. So surely now this means they're going to drop points against Elche as well? Of course.

21:02Nedum Onuoha:Has he just set himself up there? Well, it's set up that way. But I think there's enough momentum from the game, from Manchester City, that they'll do enough. I think I've heard this before. They'll do enough. I think I've heard this sort of talk. The momentum. They'll do enough. Maybe half a dozen times at least. I didn't say they were going to dominate. I said they'll do enough.

21:26Dan Thomas:They'll get by like a Celta.

21:28Nedum Onuoha:And they did barely enough to get by Celta. You think about how close they were to losing that game. minutes before Fede Valverde scores the game winner off a deflection late in the match, minutes before, just a sequence or two earlier, Iago Aspas had hit a ball off the post on the other end. Had they lost that game, maybe the feeling of Real Madrid is different going into Manchester City. Maybe we're having a different conversation, but that's not the case. So much like that, they'll do just enough and get by Elche.

21:57Dan Thomas:Well, don't listen to Trent Alexander-Arnold. Listen to Ale Moreno and tune into La Liga on ESPN Plus. Real Madrid will be up against El Che that's Saturday, 4 p.m. Eastern time, but join us 30 minutes before for the pre-show.

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24:09Dan Thomas:All right, enough about Manchester City's crisis. Let's talk about a real crisis. And that's going on at Tottenham. Yes, six straight losses for Spurs in all competitions. And remember I said Igor Tudor had a pretty feisty presser? Well, let's listen to it now.

24:27Nedum Onuoha:Like everything in life, you can choose how to see the situation. So you can stay and cry or you can fight. You can be the victim or you can say I can change something. This is the message I want to start, what I communicate to the players.

24:44Dan Thomas:The bottle is always half empty or half full. So here there is nothing full, there is a lot of empty things. What I always like to say to the players, don't be a victim.

24:57Nedum Onuoha:Don't think it's not about me.

25:02Nedum Onuoha:That can be the problem more than all these things about Tottenham club, you know, like

25:10Shaka Hislop:magic on the club, like black magic and this and that other bull****, you know.

25:18Dan Thomas:Ooh, a lot of empty things there. Now, I mean, I know Ale likes to call himself a beacon of positivity, but if I'm looking for the glass half full, I'm not going to go to Ale. I'm going to go to Nadam, who really is a beacon of positivity. Nadam, take us into that Spurs locker room.

25:36Shaka Hislop:For positivity? Yeah, Nadam.

25:39Dan Thomas:That's why we brought you on. Wow, Nadam can't even find a positive note.

25:46Shaka Hislop:No, the situation they're in is so, so poor. The fact that their last league win was the 28th of December and here we are now approaching the middle of March. They're seeing teams behind them finding some sort of form, like West Ham in particular. And then the next game is a way to Liverpool-Anfield followed by a home game against Nottingham Forest. You're getting to the point to where at any moment now Spurs could drop down to that bottom three and when you're down there and you've not won in such a long time, there's no guarantee you'll be able to get out. and I think the toxic trait of myself and probably many others is believing that Spurs will find a way because we've never seen them be relegated in the Premier League history but look at the teams around them who clearly have a belief in more ability and more momentum than they do at this moment in time and all the while you have a manager who he's trying to be as frank and honest and give these sort of rallying cries and stuff in the press whilst also saying my team's got no attack, no midfield, no defence I tried this keeper, I've got to take him off after 15 minutes it's not good enough so he's hardly inspirational to the people that he needs to find that the most and I think this next spell now is going to be such a good test from a Spurs perspective because the players that they have would have been brought in for say technical ability and this that and the other but down near the bottom of the Premier League the technical ability is only part of it because the fight is the first part it is guaranteed to be the first part because when things aren't going well how much does it mean to you to put your body on the line to be able to get that point to get three points to try and find momentum to have these like six points as such between now and the end of the season.

27:14Shaka Hislop:I think as you look at that Spurs team as it stands right now, you probably wouldn't be able to name 11 of them that are in that situation. But maybe that's because we've not seen them do it before. But the manager is not looking inspirational. The players themselves aren't looking inspirational. There's probably a suspension coming soon for someone. And then, yeah, unfortunately for them, you know, the teams that are around them, they found some form. So right now it's looking very bleak.

27:34Nedum Onuoha:Am I the only one that whenever I listen to Igor Tudor, I feel down?

27:43Nedum Onuoha:It's so serious That your shoulders go down And you feel the weight of it He must be doing that with the players The players need the complete opposite I was in a relegation battle In the Premier League with Sheffield Wednesday And Ron Atkinson came in Similar to him Maybe had a little bit longer than this guy And he did the complete opposite Every day He had a smile on his face He put a smile on your face He took some of the pressure off. I mean, that's what you need to do. You had said Mr Bean there. Well, the good thing is that the report... Isn't it Rowan Atkinson? Is that not... Rowan Atkinson.

28:22Nedum Onuoha:Rowan Atkinson. What? From Mr Bean?

28:24Dan Thomas:The good thing is that we're hearing, according to David Ornstein, is that there are reports that Spurs are looking at candidates to replace Igor Tudor, but they will do it after the Liverpool fixture.

28:35Nedum Onuoha:Well, they need to get the fixture out of the road and get somebody in. Because, as I said...

28:38Dan Thomas:Because they're just not expected to win that one.

28:40Nedum Onuoha:Well, no, the players are not. Nothing has changed since this guy came in. So clearly, he's as sad with them as he is when he talks to anybody else like us. And he just drags you down with them. So all he's doing is dragging this team down. So the sooner they get the Liverpool game out of the way, get beat and make a change, and change the atmosphere at the whole place. Because, again, you can tell he has not changed the atmosphere. You have to change the atmosphere, get everybody together, and then you'll see some real fight and some determination. You just keep slagging them off like he's done.

29:14Nedum Onuoha:And it's all doom and gloom. So the cloud is going to hang over Spurs until this guy is gone. I guarantee it. I slightly disagree, Stevie, in that I actually think that he has changed the atmosphere. He's made it worse. He's made it worse. And the initial question to Nadim was about that locker room.

29:35Dan Thomas:Yeah.

29:37Nedum Onuoha:I have to imagine, and it has to be this way because it couldn't be any other way, that right now when you got into that locker room, it's quiet. Usually a locker room is a place of a lot of conversation, a lot of chatter, a lot of back and forth. There is music playing. There are bonds being built and relationships being built. And that is the sort of bond and that's the sort of strength that you need in order to get out of a situation like this. Well, how do you manufacture that if everybody's just quiet, deathly quiet? And this guy's not going to bring the attitude up. If anything, as I mentioned before, it's going to bring it down.

30:18Nedum Onuoha:And so it's hard to see a scenario by which Spurs turn this thing around unless you start finding reasons to get excited or something, something to rally around, something that energizes the locker room, something that brings the players together rather than separate the players. And if you're looking for a reason, and you are a Spurs fan, and you want to be optimistic about this, perhaps, perhaps the Kinski substitution is the thing that brings the locker room together. That now you find a rallying cause, something, a rallying point in which, okay, you know what? This guy, whether he gets fired or not, he's not going to ruin our season.

31:05Nedum Onuoha:He's not going to go down with us anyway if we go down because he'll be long gone. So if we want to stay up, it's got to be about us. And we have zero respect for the way that he treated our teammate. Let's do this for ourselves. And let's create and manufacture momentum ourselves. Now, that's easier said than done because there isn't a whole lot of success. I understand that. But I'm just trying, if I'm within that locker room, I'm trying to build bonds that get us through the next few games so that then we can generate some momentum. Even if it is lying to ourselves, you need excitement within that locker room, and that excitement is not coming anytime soon.

31:42Dan Thomas:Well, if you didn't know, we actually have an established author on the show today. Oh, do we? Our Native Manuwa, because if you head on over to ESPN.com, Native, yes, Native, put pen to paper or figures to keyboard, and he wrote...

31:56Nedum Onuoha:Or typewriter. A scathing article about that Antonin Kinski situation.

32:01Dan Thomas:But, Natum, realistically, as a defender, when you see your goalkeeper is just having a day like the one he had, how much does that affect the morale of the team and your ability to even bounce back?

32:14Shaka Hislop:See, that's a good question. And if you'd allow me to sort of piggyback on something that Ali was saying as well, like I'll start by referencing, if a goalkeeper or somebody's having a bad game in particular, sometimes your emotion towards it will depend on whether they're doing it through poor intent or poor execution like if somebody is unfortunate just having a bad day you can try and encourage them but the fact is this game still matters you need to do better but for the mistakes that he's making like the slip he's not the only person to slip that led to a goal because the same thing happened to van der Ven you know who is one of their more experienced players and you know vice captain of the whole football club but then the issue is the second one the second one being like a technical error you know why don't you just try and control the ball and play with the other foot if that's what you want to do.

32:55Shaka Hislop:Because is that something that he's good at, to just do it first time when you know it's a slick pitch? Absolutely not. But at this stage now, when you hear every single one of those Atleti fans screaming at the top of their lungs, trying to make it feel as hostile as possible, then yes, you have to look someone in the eye and say, are you ready for this moment? And I would have liked to think that maybe he could stay until half time at least and give himself a chance to bounce back. Because I think most professionals are in that position to know that once you've made a mistake, you want to atone for it.

33:20Shaka Hislop:At some point during your life, your career, you face adversity and you've proven that he can come out on the other side because so many people fall by the wayside when football becomes hard when you are younger but Kinski's there for a reason and he might not be the best goalkeeper in Europe at that time but he's still capable of handling that moment and there'll be keepers who aren't as good as him who've performed better relatively speaking throughout this Champions League campaign and domestic league campaign for Atletico in the league as well so I'm disappointed from that standpoint but to go to what Ali was saying just quickly the sense of togetherness and this is linked to Kinski when I was unfortunately involved in three relegation dogfights only came out victorious once speaking from experience here I realized that when a team is doing well everyone gets on with each other because it feels great you realize how much you have in common with people but when things start to go the opposite way you start to see the fractures start to happen because in that Spurs dressing room like this is all relative to expectation because maybe for Nottingham Forest or West Ham, maybe they half thought they'd be down there at the bottom of the table this season.

34:25Shaka Hislop:So the feeling's a bit different. But for Spurs, what is Matisse Tell thinking? What is Colin Mawani thinking? What is Xavi Simons thinking? What are some of the players thinking who've been there for three, four years? Are they thinking, oh, this is fine, we need to push through? Or are they thinking, well, maybe it's time for me to leave. Maybe it's easier if we leave, if we go down. The manager's not picking me anymore. Why is that? I don't support him anymore. Even some players, for example, if they're fans of or if they're like peers with vicario they'll be disgusted that the managers drop vicario for kinski who is kinski why is he playing this game so some of the sympathy and stuff that you know could exist in like an ideal scenario when a team hasn't won a game of football in the league for two and a half months some of those things start to disappear and everyone start not everyone but so many people start thinking solely about themselves and in that situation you it becomes more and more difficult to find some of those results that you need because you can't, for the first time in a long time, guarantee that everybody's pulling in the right direction.

35:19Shaka Hislop:When things get tough, some people want to make tackles, some people want to get on the ball, some people want to shy away from the limelight. And I think for Igor Tudor, he's probably sensed that. But unfortunately, I don't think many of the players are on his side either. So it's a very, very tough position to be in.

35:31Nedum Onuoha:Can I just add one thing on the top of what Nadam said there? There's only one little thing he missed out. There's a few that will start blaming everybody else and will not blame themselves. that is a guarantee.

35:46Dan Thomas:But Stevie, just on that point, because as a defender as well, if you're seeing that happen, what's going through your head?

35:53Nedum Onuoha:I think as a teammate, you feel bad for them. But I find it difficult to separate being a teammate and being a coach, because as a coach, I would have done exactly what Igor Tudor did.

36:08As a teammate, would I think it was the right or

36:11Nedum Onuoha:wrong thing to do. I'm not sure where I would be with that, but I know 100 % from a coaching point of view. I'm sorry, but you got to go, because you have to look after the club. You're looking after the club now. You're looking after the 10 teammates on the field. You're looking after the subs. You're looking after the fans. You're looking after everybody. Because at the end of the day, it's 3-0, but teams have come back from 3-0 before. So you can't say, well, I'll let them go to halftime and see what happens. because the time might be dead by half-time. So, yeah, from a teammate's point of view, 100%, they'll all feel for him.

36:46Nedum Onuoha:Guarantee they'd all, at half-time, take his apologies, put an arm around him, the whole thing, they would have done that because that's what you do as a teammate. But unfortunately for Kinski, the coaching staff, have got a job to do and unfortunately, they have to do a job to pick up the pieces that he left. The problem, Steve, is that this decision is not made in a vacuum from Igor Tudor. And so if he had enough equity with this group of players since he had come in, then it makes the decision for him easier and for the players easier to take. But for this group of players that obviously don't really trust this manager, that the report says he had these guys doing beep tests, And then in a press conference after they lose a match, it's like, well, we don't have enough here.

37:38Nedum Onuoha:We don't have enough there. We need a new player. I mean, what are we going to do with this? If those are the first impressions you're making on a group of players, and then on top of that, you then do this, then the players will take this as yet another reason. Yet another reason as to why we cannot trust this guy. Now, whether he's right or wrong to make that decision, that's a different conversation. But in the context of what Igor Tudor has been since he has been a Spurs, then this doesn't help his cause within that locker room at all.

38:09Dan Thomas:Well, Nadim, you also touched on the slipping that we saw. Yanag Afyartov was on the show yesterday, and he joked that it looked like they were playing with slippers on. But realistically, I mean, when you look at it, it's a bit silly. How on earth does that happen?

38:23Shaka Hislop:Do you know what? I really don't know. I think maybe there are some places where that slipping seems more likely. but I think the first reaction I always want to say is like, well, they're wearing the wrong footwear. But for a goalkeeper and for a defender, like some things change over time. But goalkeepers and defenders wearing studs is as standard as it comes. Maybe they might not be as long as, say, when myself, Steve and others were younger, where the pitches were in far worse conditions. But wouldn't they have warmed up in those? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They would have done. But they've not got an unlimited amount of football boots designed for every type of surface.

38:58Shaka Hislop:so maybe they were slipping the warm-up and said, oh, could you just put some new studs in? But for some of those guys, you could just see them falling over and it's the same for Atletico, it's the same for the Spurs players. And I'll be honest with you, as a defender, if you slip once in a game with studs on, the fear that you have for the rest of the game is unlike anything else within football because you're adamant one time you're slipping a lead to goal, as we saw with Van der Ven, for example. So thankfully for them, the pitch in some ways may be dried up as the game went on, But in those opening stages where it's basically just a slip and slide, all you end up doing is hoping for the best.

39:30Shaka Hislop:And the best was certainly not something for Spurs on that day.

39:33Dan Thomas:Natum spoke there like he knows a thing or two about slipping once or twice there.

39:37Nedum Onuoha:I thought he knows a little something about being panicked.

39:41Dan Thomas:Panicked, relegation battles, slipping on the pitch. Natum knows it all. Let's pivot now and talk about Liverpool, Stevie, because now going into this one, it's a topic that we've discussed many, many times on the show already. and that is the Mo Salah issue and the decision that Arne Slott has to make. Does he drop him? When does he make this decision? Because if we look at his numbers from last season at this time and compare them to now, they really are alarming.

40:04Nedum Onuoha:Well, I think the first time he dropped him was absolutely spot on. I think he got the timing right. I think what Mo Salah's record in his Liverpool career up until his first sit-down on his backside, he earned that equity that he should be given another chance. I think since he's gotten back in the side as a regular, he's now reached the stage where he has to take a seat again. I think a lot of it you can say, well, OK, Slott doesn't have a lot of options. Who does he play? Frimpong's never been fit, so it's not straightforward that he can just go straight in there. So now you're talking about, do you switch Gakpo and play Ingemoor?

40:51Nedum Onuoha:Or do you just play Ingemoor over there? I mean, so Anastaslaut doesn't really have a straightforward swap. You know, the best teams have got two players for every position. Somebody's not playing well, somebody's contributing nothing, then you play the other guy. Anastaslaut's not in that position. He doesn't have a straightforward, well, if he's not doing it, I'll play this guy. That's his biggest problem. Because he doesn't have a real good option. but even saying that because of what Mo Sa has been producing I think you take the chance and you take the chance of maybe trying Ingram over there or you take the chance of putting Gakpo over there or you play Chiesa I think it's reached the stage now that regardless of who it is or what you do it's going to be more than what Mo's actually given to the team because if he's not scoring goals and he's not creating he's not giving Liverpool anything else and right now he's not scoring and he's not creating

41:51Dan Thomas:trying times indeed for the Egyptian king anyways the FA Cup quarterfinals will be upon us the dates and times have been announced here are the fixtures and you can bet they are on ESPN Plus Manchester City vs Liverpool 7.15am Eastern Time join us for that one and in Southampton as well up against Arsenal on the Sunday though It will be West Ham against Leeds. That is at 11 a.m.

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43:21Dan Thomas:And we actually had to dig back at least a century to find a scouting report right when our defender Stevie Nichol joined Liverpool. Now this is what the Liverpool scout had to say about Stevie Nichol. He did not spell your name right. He said he had pace, two good feet and sound tactical awareness, but he was playing in a poorish grade of football. Would he do it at a higher level? A performance for the Scotland under-21 side convinced me. Alongside players from the English First Division and the Scottish Premier League, he held his own. He looked a classy player.

44:01Nedum Onuoha:Classy hair as well. That's our Stevie Nichol.

44:04Dan Thomas:That's our Stevie Nichol. Stevie, he said he looked like he could make it, and so you did.

44:10Nedum Onuoha:Well, Geoff Twentiman was a very famous scout at Liverpool. And for anybody, he actually has a book. And it tells you of all the players he signed for Liverpool from when he first started back in the 60s, all the way through to the middle 80s. And it tells you all the little reports, just like the one you saw there, has all the reports on Kenny Dalglish, Kevin Keegan, Steve Highway, as I said, all the way from the middle 60s all the way through to the middle 80s. It's a great book. Quick time out. Some breakfast intel you want to know about. Kodiak frozen power waffles and flapjacks are built for busy mornings.

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46:16Dan Thomas:Well, the start of a new NWSL season is upon us and it will be on ESPN. The new girls on the block. Boston will go up against Gotham FC Saturday, 1230 p.m. Eastern time is where you can catch that game on ABC. And make sure to look out for a special edition of Football W. Crystal Dunn joins the show. And I mean, look at all the accolades there alongside Christina Alexander, Ali Krieger and Jeff Kersoup. 6 p.m. Eastern time on ESPN2. Don't miss it. All right. Well, that's it for this edition of ESPN FC. But do not go anywhere because we've got extra time coming up next where maybe we'll give Neda more grief.

47:07Dan Thomas:Welcome into Extra Time. I was just joking.

47:10Nedum Onuoha:Wait a minute. It's not we.

47:13Dan Thomas:We as a collective.

47:14Nedum Onuoha:Ali and I, nothing to do with it. No. You.

47:17Dan Thomas:Our producer Mike said that we were going to talk about Manchester City's crisis because Natum was on.

47:22Nedum Onuoha:Can I ask a question to Stevie? When was the decision from you to go to what your hair was in the early days to then sort of what you got going on for the last 40 years?

47:34Dan Thomas:A little salt and pepper.

47:35Nedum Onuoha:I'll tell you what, I think it was 1985.

47:39Dan Thomas:Wow.

47:41Nedum Onuoha:You started going gray? No. No, he had, you know, he had the, I would say 85. Can we put a picture up of Stevie with the little. I went from the comb over. Yeah.

47:52Dan Thomas:Comb over.

47:52Nedum Onuoha:To the spiky bit.

47:55Dan Thomas:And let's have a look. Oh, yeah. There he is. Yeah. What a man.

48:00Nedum Onuoha:Yeah, that's a real comb-over, isn't it?

48:03Dan Thomas:Are you still thinking for your strawberry blonde? Look at that.

48:05Nedum Onuoha:Solid, thick. Yes. That's a head of hair, isn't it? Yes. Yes, it is. What?

48:10Dan Thomas:What? Eden needs to go to Turkey for that at all.

48:13Nedum Onuoha:That's a belt in head of hair.

48:15Dan Thomas:All right, let's get into our questions, shall we? The first one for the man with a great head of hair. Stevie Nichol, another game, another early excuse. You picked your partner.

48:23Nedum Onuoha:I thought you were talking about me.

48:26Dan Thomas:But in his presser, he's saying, quote, we have no idea what to prepare for with Spurs under a new manager with new tactics and many injuries. Why does he feel the need to do this?

48:38Nedum Onuoha:I think it's called covering your back, just in case.

48:41Dan Thomas:With his Spurs, surely, respectfully.

48:45Nedum Onuoha:Yeah, well, to be fair, I mean, I don't understand what he's saying because Spurs don't know what they're going to do. So how can anybody else? I mean, basically, you organise yourself at home to put pressure on Spurs because you know if you put pressure on them, they will disintegrate. So yeah, I think that's just a little bit of covering your back with that statement there.

49:08Dan Thomas:Nader, what do you think?

49:11Shaka Hislop:No, I think that is fair. In some ways, he's trying to almost raise the moment and ability level of Spurs to where this would be a really tough game. and in fairness, Liverpool might make it a tough game, but we're talking about a side with the worst form in the Premier League. As I say, no league win since December 28. It makes no difference which 11 they put out. The confidence is as low as it comes and you'd like to think that Liverpool playing at home should be able to roll all the way over them. So, yeah, I think maybe he's trying to protect himself just in case the worst happens for them.

49:42Dan Thomas:We'll leave that one.

49:43Nedum Onuoha:Well, it's a pre-emptive strike, but it's an unnecessary one. Yeah. If they lose to Spurs, he's going to get it regardless. Yeah.

49:53Dan Thomas:That would be a day. Wow. I don't even know if Stevie should show up at work if that happens.

49:58Nedum Onuoha:I can assure you, I will be watching this game when my finger's getting chewed. Really? Aye. This is the one you feel would be a banana. That's quite a visual. Hold on a second. It's like wolves. Yeah, fair. It's like wolves. It's the same thing. And the players will be thinking it as well. I'll be like, this team can't even win a game. I hope it's not us.

50:22Dan Thomas:They have to turn a corner.

50:23Nedum Onuoha:I hope it's not us that actually they end up winning a game against. It's probably the mindset to go into a game.

50:27Dan Thomas:I know. What was he talking about? The Igor Tudor when he speaks to this. He just brings it down. Stevie speaking about this one.

50:33Nedum Onuoha:He just brings it down. When it gets to 2-0, I'll be comfortable.

50:39Dan Thomas:All right. Next question for Ale. Ale, does Piotr have the potential to be as good as Pedri? and should he start for Spain at the World Cup if he continues this form until the season's end?

50:51Nedum Onuoha:Alright, alright. Calm down.

50:54Dan Thomas:Calm down.

50:55Nedum Onuoha:And I mean, calm down.

50:57Dan Thomas:Yep.

50:59Nedum Onuoha:Thiago Pitards has come in and done a very good job for Álvaro Arbelova. But. But we have to calm down. and while he has been impressive, let's also, in the process of coming down, let's be factual about our reporting. From all the opportunities that apparently, according to Guardiola, Manchester City had against Real Madrid this past Wednesday, the clearest opportunity came from Thiago Pitarch losing the ball inside his own 18-yard box and Thibaut Courtois having to come up with a huge save. That may just have changed the feeling. the sensations about this game going back to Manchester. So while Thiago has been very good, let's let him mature.

51:43Nedum Onuoha:Let's let him grow up. Let's let him actually find his way in Real Madrid and consistently play for Real Madrid before we start talking should he be starting at the World Cup. Calm down.

51:54Dan Thomas:Natum, I'm sure you agree. Let's not put too much pressure on the young man.

51:58Shaka Hislop:Yeah, I think Spain have got plenty of midfielders. So yeah, he's got a bit of time left. It's not the middle or end of his career. Let's let him breathe. Let him enjoy his football.

52:07Dan Thomas:Oh, Natham's dreading to see him again for the second leg. Or probably not, considering he did give the ball away. Anyways, next question. Were you ever part of a club where you always did well in a particular cup or competition, no matter if you struggled during your domestic season or any other competitions, similar to Real Madrid with the Champions League? Natham, let me start with you because you look very pensive.

52:32Shaka Hislop:Yeah, I was just thinking about my FA Cup record, to be fair. and to put it into perspective, I was at Queen's Park Rangers for six and a half years and I think in total we probably played nine FA Cup ties. So I don't think I have the same sort of feeling that Real Madrid have around the Champions League. So yeah. Slightly different. I think, yeah, no. As far as cup competitions go, never got very far in many of them, to be honest. You know, it is what it is. But I'm like one of many players that probably suffered the same fate so i'm gonna have to leave that on i'm afraid well stevie would

53:07Nedum Onuoha:have a plethora to choose from stevie yeah i would say the fa cup i mean i played played four finals in the space of eight years oh ballin so yeah i would have to see the fa flex mad flex right oh our stevie nickel with the cards on the table say yeah that's yeah he's like oh just got to answer the question i'm sorry i answered the question here are the facts deal with it deal with it deal with

53:31Dan Thomas:The great scouting report, can play as a goalkeeper for finals. Great hair. Great hair. What can this man do?

53:38Nedum Onuoha:Yeah, it was a tough period in my life. I'm glad you were able to overcome it, Steve.

53:45Dan Thomas:Ale?

53:46Nedum Onuoha:What's overkill? Hold on, you think I'm going to follow that up?

53:49Dan Thomas:No, no. Move on to the next question. Move on to the next question. Okay, we'll move on to the next question, which is for Ale. Ale, who has a higher chance of making it through the quarterfinals? Newcastle or Leverkusen? Ooh, they don't like that one.

54:11Dan Thomas:Give us percentages. We love percentages.

54:15Nedum Onuoha:Newcastle has a better chance of making it through to the next round than Leverkusen does. Because defensive Barcelona are going to give you chances. And so if Newcastle are able to somehow manage Barcelona and what they do offensively, there will be opportunities on the counter and there will be chances for Newcastle. They have to capitalize on those chances, but we have seen lesser opposition against Barcelona in La Liga this season create all sorts of issues and create all sorts of chances. The problem for them is going to be, how is it that you're going to manage? Barcelona and defensively how can you address that much talent coming from all sorts of different angles in a stadium that is going to be behind this team and they're going to create an environment in which Barcelona are going to be on top of you all the time.

55:07Nedum Onuoha:Regardless, I still think because of the opportunities that Barcelona affords any team, not just Newcastle, but any team, there is a chance there that I don't think it exists with Leverkusen against Arsenal.

55:20Dan Thomas:Nadev, you liked this one. What say you?

55:23Shaka Hislop:Yeah, I would probably go for Newcastle as well because for me, as Ali said there, with Barcelona they've got a style of play which can be brilliant going forward but will offer the opportunity to the opposition to create not just chances but big chances at times. I think we saw that in midweek when Newcastle obviously were playing at home and they probably should have and could have scored more. Whereas from an Arsenal perspective, going up against Leverkusen, yes Leverkusen could win that game but I think Arsenal have the ability to make the game whatever it needs to be to get through. If it's a high scorer, you know, they've got that potential.

55:53Shaka Hislop:But if it's going to be a 1-0, like grind it out, they've got that as well. And I think that ability to win ugly is probably the reason why I think Newcastle have got more of a chance of getting through than Leverkusen.

56:03Dan Thomas:Stevie, are you going with Newcastle as well?

56:05Nedum Onuoha:I think that what these two fine gentlemen who preceded me with, I don't think I can add anything.

56:12Dan Thomas:Brilliant. All right, let's go.

56:14Nedum Onuoha:However, neither one of them are advancing. Yeah.

56:17Dan Thomas:But they just have a better chance.

56:18Nedum Onuoha:I'm just answering the question, but neither one won our fans.

56:21Dan Thomas:Next question for Nadam. Nadam, if you were a Nottingham Forest player, would you care more about winning the Europa League or avoiding relegation? If you're a good enough player, wouldn't getting relegated not be too big of a deal since another Premier League team would likely sign you next season?

56:39Shaka Hislop:Wow, that's an interesting one. That's talking like best-case scenario. I'll just win the Europa League and just go and sign somewhere. Brilliant. that's not necessarily the way that football works because all those players aren't all going to be sold from Forrest anyway. And for me, to win something would be amazing. We've not all had Stevie Nichol careers where you're winning something every 90 seconds, it feels like. Right? Balling. Yeah, just fact. Stevie's that guy. Stevie's that guy, honestly. That guy. But if you did win the Europa League and then your team was relegated, there's no guarantee you'll ever get a chance to play in the Premier League again.

57:13Shaka Hislop:So on this particular occasion, like if you had like a mid-season and you were just in 12th and you won the Europa League incredible you know you could argue like Spurs this season last year but staying in the Premier League and what that can bring for me I'm just going to have to say it's far bigger and more important in the short, medium and long term so I think I'd rather stay in the league than win the Europa League

57:32Dan Thomas:CV you flirted with relegation surprisingly and you've also enjoyed good cup runs nothing's fun about it

57:38Nedum Onuoha:stay up 100 % yeah 100 % I don't even think it comes close stay in the Premier League by a mile. You just have to look at teams that have gone down thinking that they were going to come right back up, and instead of coming right back up, they're actually going further down.

57:57Dan Thomas:Yeah.

57:58Nedum Onuoha:And never to be seen or heard again. And so you don't know what happens when you go down.

58:05Dan Thomas:Yeah.

58:06Nedum Onuoha:And so every effort possible to stay up, make that your priority.

58:12Dan Thomas:All right. Final question. What's the funniest thing that's happened behind the scenes at a broadcast? Oh, wow. What is the funniest thing?

58:23Nedum Onuoha:Oh, boy. You mean like doing the show or?

58:27Dan Thomas:I guess at any of maybe our outside broadcast. Well, I did slip and fall in the shower in Madrid and broke my front teeth and then had to go to an emergency dentist, get it capped, made sure I had no root damage, got a black eye. But 24 hours later, she was on ESPN FC doing El Clasico.

58:45Nedum Onuoha:Bringing it. Bringing it. I had a black eye forming.

58:48Dan Thomas:Martin Einstein, big up Martin every time. He had to call his friend who was the dentist who was at a wedding to come and open his clinic. And they gave me some basically like horse tranquilizer anti-inflammatory so that my eye would not swell up.

59:04Nedum Onuoha:Did the dentist come on a bike as part of the bicycle diary?

59:07Dan Thomas:The dentist did not come on a bike. He came in a very nice luxury vehicle, but you know me and my trooper just knocked out my not my two front teeth It was this one and this one

59:17Nedum Onuoha:Were you here when Adrian walked into the camera? I was here when Stuart Rupson did it and cut himself Adrian Healey used to be a presenter on here Was walking past the camera now the bottom of the camera It's quite sharp. It's really sharp and it's got two pointy really sharp point edges on the two of them and Adrian walked straight into it right went to the printer walked back and the blood was streaming down his head and we're like Adrian you cut your head he went yeah we're all right like a true English one who's been in a scrapbook too like he's gonna start the show and he's gonna sit there like that with blood streaming down inside his head The percussion protocol.

1:00:03Nedum Onuoha:The ambulance came.

1:00:05Dan Thomas:Oh, wow. Hi. We take things very seriously here at JSTM. Ale?

1:00:10Nedum Onuoha:Well, like I said, I was here when Stewie did that and they actually had... Same camera? Yes, the same camera and they actually had paramedics come in and like, you know... Stitching back up? Because he was bleeding profusely and I don't know if you've noticed, but he can't quite hide it, you know? He doesn't have the CV in the killer. No, he doesn't quite have that. And so, so Stewie did that. Off camera, there's been... A lot of stuff. A lot of things.

1:00:34Dan Thomas:Some that we can mention, others that we won't.

1:00:37Nedum Onuoha:No, no. But that, I think what we all appreciate from doing this show is that we all have sort of a locker room kind of relationship. and I believe I can speak safely for Stevie and Natum that one of the things that we miss from playing is the locker room and the environment in the locker room and that feeling. And this is, while we're not in a locker room, it has a feeling and it has that same sort of back and forth. And so I wish people could be sitting with us watching the games and how that back and forth is really much like a locker room and we'll make fun of each other endlessly about the dumbest things there are to make fun of each other.

1:01:23Nedum Onuoha:And yet we seem to enjoy it. And we'll regurgitate that and recycle those stories time and time again because it's what we do and it's what happens in locker rooms.

1:01:32Dan Thomas:And when it's lights, camera, action, we are out here putting together a show professionally. I'll tell you what, I almost once saw Natum get into a fight. Where was it, Natum? At Wigan before we did an FA Cup coverage? No comment. Natum?

1:01:45Shaka Hislop:Never happened. I don't know what meant it also. I don't know what you're talking about, Alexis.

1:01:49Dan Thomas:I will say, Natham was never in the wrong in that one.

1:01:50Shaka Hislop:We had a very troublesome steward there. I think it was at Wigan. Don't know what you're talking about, Alexis.

1:01:59Dan Thomas:We'll leave that one because Natham does not condone violence.

1:02:02Nedum Onuoha:About the many a times that we're watching games and Xhaka is falling asleep. That is, I mean, that's... To be fair, what I would say,

1:02:14Shaka Hislop:I've heard that maybe some people associated with Liverpool have issues with Stevie Nichol. Listen, man, having watched a couple of Liverpool games with him, there's no reason to. He is very much one of you. He is involved in every single bit of the game. So please, let him breathe. He adores Liverpool. Absolutely adores them. And it's actually good fun watching him do it to poke fun at it as well. Please, just give him a break. He's got to let himself breathe.

1:02:39Nedum Onuoha:I was going to say, was there ever a doubt? He's showing food, he's eating, he's doing the whole thing.

1:02:44Dan Thomas:Stevie, Stevie, I think, loves Liverpool more than he loves his own children.

1:02:49Nedum Onuoha:Honestly, I get pelters. Every time I say something against anything to do with Liverpool, I get absolutely slaughtered by fans.

1:02:55Dan Thomas:What? It's because you love them so much that you're able to criticise them when they're not doing well.

1:03:00Nedum Onuoha:Yeah. It's just the way it goes, isn't it?

1:03:03Dan Thomas:Yeah. Naidem, you want to throw in your two cents? Because you've worked with many broadcasters, but we know we're your favourite.

1:03:11Shaka Hislop:Alexis, I have no comment. It's been a great show. Thank you very much. Pleasure has always been on with you.

1:03:17Nedum Onuoha:Thanks for participating, Natham. Great. Thank you. Thanks, Natham. I told him how I nearly got my two front teeth out.

1:03:23Dan Thomas:Slippy, slitty bathtubs there.

1:03:25Nedum Onuoha:What? I'm sorry, what?

1:03:26Dan Thomas:Slippery, slippery. It came out eventually. Slippery bathtubs in Madrid. All right. That hotel actually closed down. They upgraded me to like the president suite after as a thank you for not suing us. So that was great. Just had to lose a few teeth, a couple blood. This is a bit fine.

1:03:43Nedum Onuoha:What a professional.

1:03:44Dan Thomas:What a professional. All right, well that's it for this extra time. Yeah, I did actually. I'll show you the photos. You can tell. ESPN FC will be back tomorrow on ESPN+. Make sure to join us.

1:04:22Nedum Onuoha:We'll see you next time.

1:04:37Nedum Onuoha:and 9 p.m. only on ESPN and the ESPN app.