Espi Rescues Real Madrid Again

26:04When you get Tonali now on board for I don't know 100 million or something was that mentioned before is he now the character is he the personality to guide this team into the top six you know this is it should be almost like it's a no-brainer it should be fine because obviously you know the paid the price for it and so with the other ones I think Mahmoud is a very good move is he now a leader I cannot tell him I tell you because I don't know him personally but The one thing is the player profile from a technical point of view, from a player point of view, and the other is the profile that he has as a personality.

26:40And this has to match Tottenham, because Tottenham is a very specific, very unique club where you have to match as a character. And one thing is what the Spurs fans want to see is they want to see you fight and being desperate and being hungry until the very last second of a game. And when you miss them chances and you show that hunger, then they don't mind. They let you get away with it. But if you don't give them the feeling that you did everything you could in your behaviour, in your willingness to run and fight, then it will get tense at Warteyer, White Hart Lane. Jürgen needs to go and give them a tutorial, I suppose.

27:19Yeah. All those things he was talking about, what did they do? They signed Matias Fernandes.

27:25Craig Burley:But no offence to Jürgen, that seems quite obvious. He doesn't take a World Cup winner to tell you that you need fighters and leaders. Yeah, go and get a guy who's been relegated twice with two clubs. He'll turn around with you. There you go. Florian Verz didn't play today, but he's been the subject of conversation once again, given his formal lack of it, starting this season. Jürgen, I know you're going to defend him because, you know, Florian Verz has got so much potential there and you've always said to me, look, just give it time. But people are feeling that he's had this time and we're just not seeing any of that glimpse that 150 million that made Liverpool fans so excited when he made that initial move from Bayer Leverkusen?

28:09Yeah, I'm there with you, Dan. I always defended him and I keep defending him, but it's the same conversation we just had maybe about Tonali now coming there from Newcastle to Spurs for this amount of money, this crazy amount of money. And Florian knows that with that money comes expectations and responsibilities. and you have to, sooner or later, you have to deliver and people will be patient until a certain point. And then if you don't give them the goals that they want you to see to score or if you don't give them the performances that they want to see, then criticism will rise and issues will come up.

28:47And then you see, and that's what I just talked about previously, you see the character and the spirit of the human being then. And I look at a lot of young German players that I was so hopeful going into the World Cup in the United States, Mexico and Canada, where I said, you know, now it's their time. You know, Musiala will shine, Wirtz will shine and a couple of other ones, you know, because on the paper, wow, you know, they cost X amount of money and they're really, really good. But they did not deliver. So, yeah, it's a question of time. And if he doesn't deliver the way, you know, people expect him to do, especially his coaching staff expects him to do, then he will sit more on the bench than being on the field.

29:31Craig Burley:What's the problem, Jürgen? People say, yes, he's just faster in the Premier League, he has less time on the ball. But as you say, he's been there for over a season now. Surely his game, his character, his footballing brain should be able to adapt to that by now? I think his game can easily adapt to the Premier League. I think it's also here we talk about the mental side of the game but that you have to kind of also provoke yourself to raise your own bar, to raise your own level. He can't do that because he showed that at Leverkusen, also internationally in the Europa League. But it's interesting to see.

30:12We see that with a lot of younger players. I mean, you saw that in the World Cup too, where we had huge expectations and think they will really kind of raise the bar, but they were not capable to do that. And sometimes we discuss it between coaches. We discuss it and say, you know what? Maybe that generation doesn't have that hunger. Maybe they don't have that drive, you know, to go all the way, you know, like desperately all the way. Maybe the money is too much, you know, and all these things go through your mind. And I mean, I don't want to change anything with this generation of today with social media and everything that goes on off the field.

30:50You know, they cannot go anywhere anymore. like Stevie and Greg and Ivy could go and have a beer or two or three and no cell phones were there close by and taking photos. You know, these guys, they cannot go anywhere without being photographed and followed. But, I mean, there's a lot, a lot of money in the game right now and sometimes it's maybe just simply too much. I think Stephen and I were much more professional than that. Two or three beers, I think it's very conservative. Three beers was the warm-up. Three beers was Saturday morning.

31:25Craig Burley:One last thing. We've talked about Florian Wurtz here. I just want to ask, which is the better goal, Jürgen, for you? Florian Wurtz. So we saw the dunk goal, didn't we? Craig picked the dunk goal as the best one of the week. In case you didn't see it. Florian Wurtz. Florian, sorry. Florian Wurtz. These are the two goals. Which one was the better one for you, Jürgen? No, Florian Wurtz was fantastic. Both goals, both goals, fantastic. But Florian Wurtz, you know, because it's a half wally and the bend that it does. Ah, fantastic. I have a lot of fun to watch. Well, see, I didn't have a decision to make because with the top ten...

32:00Why did he even ask me to do a top ten? Why did he even ask me? But that... Would you have changed your mind if Sobberslai was in selection? I don't know. It was close. Yeah, both great strikes. Well, you know, I expect Sobberslai to strike a really good ball. Right. And Lewis Dunk's a good passer of the ball, but he's a centre half. This reminded me a little bit of the kind of flight on that ball that Matt Letizia used to get. A player from, well, maybe not from Steven's here. Certainly when Jurgen and I were playing in England. Matt Letizia, it seemed on a regular basis, used to be able to pick out that top corner.

32:36Stevie, which one was the great goal? It's kind of weird because totally different reactions to both goals. You know, when Dunk did his, you're like, oh my, what is, that's incredible. But then you watch Slobosley doing it and you just kind of smile and go, well, what do you expect? Yeah, that's him. But they're great. I mean, listen, whatever. There was a lot of good goals at the weekend, actually, but none from Florian Vils.

33:01Craig Burley:No, none indeed. A bit of Carabao Cup action, though. Ipswich taking on Arsenal. Stevie, did you keep an eye on this one for us? Don't lie, just saying no. Max Dalman giving a start, so much excitement about the teenager. All this did is confirm what we've been talking about since the start of the season. In terms of the depth of the squad, Arsenal are miles ahead of everybody. Great feet though, not a good defender. Defensive is the baddest. What is he, 16? 16 though. Still 16? Yeah, I mean... In the switch playing out from the back. Yeah, let's play out from the back against the best team in the country.

33:41Madweke making it two. Brains. Yeah. If I was to tell you it was one-sided you wouldn't be surprised would you? And forget about the score line, it ends up... Max Dallman here getting his second. Spoiler alert, it ends up 4-2 but let me tell you something.

34:01Craig Burley:Was it 4-0 at one stage? It was 4-0 at one stage. And for Arteta to complain about today, very Very nice scores to make it in four. Do you want to see the Epswich goals? Not really. Well, you're going to. Metney here making it in 4-1. Comeback jaunt. And Ackbombe would make it 4-2.

34:26Craig Burley:Arsenal safely through then to the next round. Other results today. Brentford beating Reading. Shaq is outside by two goals to one. Fulham beating West Ham by three goals to two. And Peterborough advance on penalties against Barnsley. From first call to final invoice, Service Titan is the only integrated intelligence that automates your entire workflow. Built for visionaries, ready to stop operating and start automating their success. Service Titan, AI for the trades. There's nothing worse than waking up sick. In this time of year, with the kids back in school surrounded by hundreds of others, yours may bring home a whole new world of viruses and bacteria your family may have no immunity to.

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36:01Craig Burley:Howard Webb has addressed that goal from the Manchester team. Why is our producer infatuated with this? Right, let's just walk out. Walk out, walk out. Let's go. This is what Howard Webb said. Navar had a look to see if Enzo touched the ball, but he doesn't truly evaluate other elements of offside. In that moment, Navar gets tunnel vision. He gets focus on Harlan and is down to the rest of his team to pull him out of that tunnel. and unfortunately that doesn't happen on this occasion. We'll review it, reflect upon it and try to take the learning forward to prevent this unusual type of error from happening again.

36:40Craig Burley:Steve, it's the first time you've been on since this tunnel vision. How does a referee not see there's not interference? Right. Two of them. You rang me up and said, have they changed the rule? No. I was like, have I missed something here? I think you have to look at Howard Webb. You know, at the end of the day, anybody who's a boss, who's in charge, employs people, right? And if you employ people that can't do the job, then eventually it lands at your door, right? So he's employing people that can't do the job. I mean, the head scratcher as well is that, I think it's three people in the booth, in the VAR booth, is that correct?

37:23Yes, yeah. So there's only three people on the planet who thought he wasn't interfering, and they're all in the same room together. Yeah. And the rest of the world can see what goes wrong. Well, one had gone down the tunnel, and they were grabbing both legs,

37:35Craig Burley:and they couldn't get him back out of it. So they're either... The three of them are totally incompetent, or the other two are cowards that don't say anything. OK. But at the end of the day, Howard Webb is the guy that employs these people. So ultimately, he's the one that should be getting it. Howard Webb, who refereed a World Cup final. He's a great referee. He did one of your MLS Cups today. He was a fantastic referee. It's got to the point, tongue-in-cheek, but he's got to the point he's going to have to go to Stockley Park or wherever they're doing the VAR these days. I'm not quite sure. And if there's five or six games on, he's going to have to run between all the booths and make a decision because it's got that bad.

38:14I'm serious. And he's talking about tunnel. Basically, that's just a roundabout way of saying the two, there was the VAR and then there was the assistant VAR and between the two of them, they had not a clue what they were looking at because it was crystal clear as soon as you looked at a couple of replays, right? That A, Enzo Fernandez was in an offside position attempting to play the ball but B, he was taking up all of the food for thought of Lissandro Martinez There's not even a so he's not Martinez doesn't know what to do there If he's not there, if he's not there, Lissandra Martinez probably plays this ball somehow, off his thigh or something, and scoops it over the back of the neck, right?

39:02But he is there. See, the thing for me about it as well, Craig, is... So look, Martinez is clearly put off, watch. Yeah, yeah. We all know it's the wrong decision, isn't it? So I hear people say, now, obviously we've played, blah, blah, blah. Now, at the end of the day, not everybody can play, right? And referees, a lot of them, will be book smart. And that's fine, right? But how was Webb's job is to train them? Try again. Correct. How was Webb's? That was a good show. How was Webb's? But his job is to train them. So as book smart as they might be, and they might know all the rules, and 64.b says this, his job is to fill the gaps that they might not have if they haven't played or they don't really understand the game and again that's why it ends up at his door and rightly so.

39:54Craig Burley:Jürgen as a manager this must be one of the most frustrating things that you have to deal with Oh absolutely you go crazy, you go bananas if a mistake of this dimension is being made by several people from the linesmen obviously into the VAR room and from VAR push number one to number two to number three. Yeah, it's a big deal. It's what then puts in question the whole discussion that we always have about VAR and the interfering. I'm always being positive about them because majority of the situations, they really read it well. They read it right. They correct the referees. And nine out of 10 cases, I don't know.

40:39I don't have the percentage obviously right now but maybe corrected positively and rightfully but if it happens in a magnitude like that, a game like that between in a Manchester derby then then it's I mean I don't want to be the manager there on the sideline that would be a bit extreme Do you know what nobody's talking about here? I just want to say one thing quickly, you know the VAR and the assistant VAR I've never heard of them I've never heard of them, never seen them referee at any level why would you have two guys that are the least experienced in my mind you could have a bunch of referees that maybe refereed the day before and went and sat in the ver right fifa qualified referees and people will say well that's wrong you should you should know it well yeah but but the bigger referees get the bigger games right there's a reason for that because of the profile of these games and yet these two guys i've never heard of them they've never refereed In my mind, they've never refereed a Premier League game.

41:41So, A, they should know the law. They should have recognised this anyway. That's not an excuse. But why is Howard Webb not putting... He put Michael Oliver in charge, who's one of the best referees in Europe. There's no doubt about that. But in VAR, in a Manchester derby, there should have been somebody with equal experience sat there and maybe somebody else a little junior. There was not. There was two guys who most people have never heard. I've never heard their names before. and they've had a panic up. They've had a panic up and they've made a right mess of it. As Stevie said, that's on Howard Webb.

42:14That's his job to put people in place for the biggest profile games, which this was the biggest game of the weekend in England. And we had two of the least experienced people looking at the VAR. That's wrong.

42:26Craig Burley:We'll be talking more about referees on Extra Time as I'll be asking the boys if one has ever apologized to them. You can check that out over on our YouTube channel. This is Buster Olney for La Quinta by Wyndham. Just like a good football team sticks to the fundamentals, the best work trips start with a solid routine. At La Quinta by Wyndham, a full-size fitness center helps you keep that routine going while you're on the road. Get in a workout, wrap up the workday, then kick back and enjoy football all evening long. Plus, earn Wyndham Rewards points with every qualified stay. Tonight La Quinta, tomorrow you shine.

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44:08Craig Burley:Just a reminder, Barcelona and Real Madrid level on points. Real Madrid getting a late winner today in their clash against Elche. Here's Jose Mourinho.

44:20The only explanation for letting them back in the game is that we viewed the match as easy. We didn't finish the game off. We didn't score three, four or five. After that you lower your levels.

44:37You give up control. You start interpreting the game wrong, thinking that it's easier than it is.

44:47You have one, two, three chances and you start interpreting the game wrong.

44:55You start thinking that it's easy and it's not easy.

45:02You score a goal and life changes.

45:21Craig Burley:On the ESPN, throughout the season, you can catch the Eredivisie. Ajax taking on Willem Thuij, four minutes before the end of the first half. David Klassen making it 1-0. Another little knock down there as well from Goldberg. Just really made it easier for Klassen to pick his spot. Julian Brandt would make it 2-0 just before the break here.

45:46Yeah, it was a nice little drag back here, the defender has a little poke at him, almost

45:55Craig Burley:gave a penalty away. Zakankov then makes it 3-0. Nice pick out as well. Oscar here makes it 4.

46:09more.

46:09Craig Burley:It's a bit easy. Tirani would get one back here for the visitors.

46:20Craig Burley:And then with three minutes remaining, Dolberg makes it 5-1. As well, stays alive when it comes back off the post, heads at home. Taking a look then for Ajax, they sit fourth in the table, just three adrift of PSV at the top. That's it. That brings us to the end of today's show. Be sure to stay tuned. Jürgen Klinsmann back with us. You've got Craig and Stevie as well to answer your questions.

46:49Craig Burley:Welcome to the latest edition of Extra Time. Jürgen Klinsmann, Craig Burley, Steve Nicholl alongside us. Craig, has the Premier League outgrown the Carabao Cup? It seems that the clubs really don't care about it until the semi-finals and some clubs seem like they actively want to lose early? It's a fair comment. I mean, Man City took it fairly serious for a few years under Pep Guardiola, but they had the squad to do that. Even when he rotated, which he did for this competition, he was still putting out a very strong 11. The others are not so much. Now, Spurs did put out a relatively strong side tonight.

47:27It was Liverpool that made more changes. But But the point is, I think, somewhat correct, is that a lot of the clubs are just... Look, I'll be honest. They're prioritising the early rounds of the FA Cup as well. That's kind of where we're at, and that never happened before. When we were playing the FA Cup, from the third round on, you had a full team out, regardless of what the picture was in midweek or the next week. There was no rotation because it was important. But I think, as Jürgen was saying during the show, the money has taken over somewhat and the priorities have changed. It's frustrating to see and I'm sure it's particularly frustrating for the sponsor at Carabao.

48:09There you go. Thank you very much.

48:12Craig Burley:Jürgen, did you ever receive a personal apology from a referee for making a mistake that cost you a match? Do managers even care about hearing an apology from a referee or the referee's association after the game has been decided?

48:27No, it didn't happen personally to me, but I think it would be fantastic, you know, if a referee comes over after a game and says, you know what, here, maybe I should have done this or that, you know, I think it would show good character. And they're making mistakes like we're all making mistakes, you know, the managers make mistakes, the players make mistakes. So do the referees. And as long as, you know, they are open and to admit it, I think it's pretty it's okay. You know, there's nothing worse. And obviously it depends how you approach referees. Right. Giving them a mouthful while you're trying to talk to them obviously is not good.

49:05But even, it's happened to me previously, you approach a referee and you want to ask them about things and they completely blank you and walk away from you. Okay. That drives you insane. You just want to have a conversation. Listen, I'm 100 % with Jürgen. As bad as the decision it might have been, if he looks you straight in the face and says, look, I'm sorry, I made a mess of that, that is so easy to accept than the other way around when they just won't talk to you and tell you to go away or else they're going to book you, fine you, whatever it is. The relationship between players and referees or officials now has changed.

49:48Back in the day, they were not mic'd up and you could have that. Not them all, some of them were very standoffish but a lot of them they were not and you could have that, you could have a relationship with them in terms of you give them a bit of stick or a lot of stick and they gave a little bit back and therefore it was a bit of a rapport. Right. And so a referee would be more, you know, more ready to admit a mistake. Nowadays, you feel that it's very much them and us because the referees don't want to say too much because everyone's on mic and they don't want anybody throwing mud at them saying, oh, you're friendly with that player and you're friendly with that guy from that team and that guy from that team because you're talking to them and all this conspiracy theories.

50:29years ago we didn't have that it just felt that most of the referees certainly in the 90s and the early 2000s when I was playing you could talk to them before a game, you could talk to them during a game, it might not always have been what they wanted to hear but it just feels that there's the referees now and then there's the players and they just do what they do

50:52Craig Burley:Imagine your face in the ref cam with no teeth your horrible air right in the face you don't need that in your life I don't think that's... I think if there's a good director, he's not cutting that shot off. No, it'd be R-rated. That's to scare the kids watching. Jürgen, what sort of relationship did you have with the referees as a player and did it change when you became a coach? No, I always try to be, obviously, respectful, even in the heat of the moment. I mean, there are different opinions, different ways of looking at things, But overall, I have to say in my playing days, I never really had big problems with referees.

51:32And in my coaching time, yeah, maybe here and there it became a little bit feisty. A couple of heated comments. But then afterwards, you know, you shook hands and you give each other a smile and you move on. Were you ever fined,

51:50Craig Burley:Jürgen, with your attitude to referees? No. Steve Nickell, were you ever fined with your attitude to referees? How dare you? Just a couple of times. I bet you loved writing those checks. Oh, killed me. Killed me. It wasn't worth the enjoyment at the time. No. No. I'm sure Eleanor was pleased. He was delighted. Yes. I got fined at Derby once. We played West Ham and we lost. Don't know if Shaq was there or not. We lost 2-1, De Canio scored. And I can't remember the referee's name, but he's from Wales and he was horrible. he was one of the ones you couldn't talk to right and I don't think he was a particularly good referee either but then if you lose a game you have that perception but I went bashing into his room right which was just wrong straight away you know I never even knocked I just went I went straight out never even knocked excuse me I never I went in there effing and blinding and shouting and swearing and unfortunately for me Jim Smith my manager had beaten me to it right I told you this story.

52:54And I got fined a week's wages. And Jim blamed me because he said he was trying to dissolve the situation. Right, I see. But when I went in the room, he almost had the ref by the scrub for the neck. Wow. So we're both at it. Right. The red mist just came down. Okay. And that's the only time I've ever done it. Right. But I actually went flying into the referee's room. Never kicked it off. What was the catalyst? Do you remember? Was it just the general standard? and a frustration about where we were in the league and lost another game at home. It's a relegation battle. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

53:29And you just... And as I say, I only ever did it once. But I got so frustrated with this guy. And yeah, I got fined for it. But most of the referees I did respect, but this particular one I did not. What's the best midfield balance for Liverpool, Stevie?

53:54Well, personally I think it should be McAllister, Gravenberg and Sobri's life. Right. You can argue that McAllister and Gravenberg haven't been at their best, which is true, but I still think you're getting more out of them not at their best than you are with Wurtz involved in that three, not at his best.

54:14Craig Burley:We discussed Wurtz with Jürgen on the show, if you want to catch that. He says moving on. Jürgen, your favourite footballing moment apart from winning the World Cup? Who do you top that? Apart from? The Euros. I mean... 96? Certainly, but as an experience, probably the Olympics in 1988 in Seoul. As an experience for football players, for us it was just incredible to live in Olympics, an Olympic tournament. because it's so different to a football tournament than a European Championship or a World Cup. And I will never forget that experience there in South Korea in 88. So it's something because you meet a lot of other athletes, you join in, you have parties with the other athletes and teams and experience that.

55:08I think for every footballer to experience an Olympics is something very, very unique.

55:13Craig Burley:Excuse my ignorance, Jürgen, but how did you get on?

55:18Craig Burley:How did you get on? Did you win gold? How did I get on? Yeah, did you win gold? Oh no, we lost the semi-finals, unfortunately, in penalty shootout against Brazil, against Ronaldo and Bebeto, and won the third place game, so we won bronze basically against Italy. Then we should have won gold. We should have. Oh, Bebeto, he must have been one of the young players then. He played in that team that I played in the Opener in 1998. What was your favourite moment? Shut up.

55:58But Stevie, if you were a player today... I thought my favourite moment was... What's that? Germany stopping at coming home in 1996. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's coming home.

56:12I played in that tournament, you know as well

56:14Craig Burley:Did you? Yes, exactly McAllister, blah, blah, blah For Stevie, if you're a player in today's market Which manager would you most want to play under And whose system do you think suits you best for greater success? That's a great question Clop, absolutely I mean, you saw with Trent and Robertson It doesn't have to be at Liverpool Does it have to be at Liverpool? No, it doesn't I thought you were going to say Hansi Flick No, but... No, absolutely. What about you, Jürgen? Which manager currently managing would you want to play under? I mean, obviously, as a former striker, you definitely want to have a manager that promotes attacking football and takes risks.

56:57And I think Hansi at the moment, or I think he's in Barcelona, he's taking a lot of risks and gets rewarded for it. I mean, so far, you know, I mean, obviously the Champions League He's still waiting for him. But as a striker, you want to have a manager that promotes attacking football. Period. Well, maybe it has to be. Well, no, it doesn't have to. They're all great managers. But I can imagine playing for Ancelotti. It's just fantastic. Yeah. Because I think he'll have that iron fist when he has to. Yeah. But looking from the outside, it would seem to me that you'd have to push the boundaries quite a lot to get that reaction.

57:35and therefore he's always been seen as a great... I think Ralf Honickstein, when he used to work with us, said when Ancelotti was at Bayern, the players felt he went too much the other way. That they weren't training hard enough. It became too easy. But he's always... I can imagine, particularly when it's going well, but even when it's not, he just seems like he's going to be an unbelievable guy to play for.

57:59Craig Burley:Jürgen, I can't imagine that Ancelotti's ever put together a PowerPoint presentation to try and impress people when he's looking to get a job or anything like that. But do you think that's kind of in the past now? Do you think those sort of managers we won't see as much of? I don't think that they're in the past because I think that the people management side is still the most important part for every manager. And if you now bring your ideas across through PowerPoint presentations or videos or any sort of kind of technological help is totally fine. is just a different way of communicating or you kind of you text your players instead of calling them up and and but but i think you know the players uh types like carlo ancelotti's they will always be there they will always have their place in in the world of football among the best coaches because because they know what they're talking about they talk through experience they talk they talk through the what they went through themselves as players and then as managers and they know how to deal with different characters.

59:02You know, they can kind of adjust themselves to the players that they have, the different type of characters. And if you have 25 different players, then you have to do a lot of adjustments as a manager. And I think there are some brilliant people out there. They know how to do that. Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti and so forth. I think there will be always a place for these type of managers.

59:24Craig Burley:Last question, kind of on that subject, Jürgen. Did you approach your players differently individually or were you the same with everybody?

59:35No, you're not the same with everybody. You are just yourself, you know, to the character that you have in front of you. You know, you hope you read them the right way. You hope you communicate with them the right way to kind of stimulate them in order to get the most out of themselves. So you never communicate the same way with everybody. I mean, obviously, then when you stand in front of the team, then you have your general talk, your general speech, and you bring across your ideas and your game plan. But when you have individual talks, you have a coffee or a beer with a player, then you try to kind of figure out what is he thinking?

1:00:12How is he kind of functioning? How can I get the most out of him? and now in international football, it's a fascinating task because if you look at these teams, how many different nationalities are in each team? You know, you have maybe six, seven, eight different nationalities. So the language is a problem and it's an issue. And so you've got to figure out the right way to communicate with every one of them.

1:00:39Craig Burley:How would you have dealt getting into the mind of Craig Burley? Beer. Easy. Easy. Craig, no problem. would have met up at 7am at the pub just as he was finishing just as he was finishing off we would have talked it out all day long then that is it thank you very much guys ESPN FC is back on your screens tomorrow Barcelona playing plus I think Manchester City in the Carabao Cup

1:01:19A new podcast series from ABC Audio in 2020 goes inside a case that has captivated the nation. To many people, Luigi Mangione is a modern-day Robin Hood.

1:01:31Craig Burley:People were cheering the demise of this person they'd never met, who was a father of two and a husband and had a life and was just doing a job. From the manhunt ending in a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, to what authorities are saying about a possible motive. I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer. Listen to Burden of Proof, Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts.