In short
ESPN FC episode analyzing Manchester United vs Everton (Old Trafford) and broader Premier League title/race implications, plus later discussion of Spurs/Arsenal form, Liverpool struggles, and a separate segment on Real Madrid’s issues under Xabi Alonso.
Guests
Frank Leboeuf (former France/Chelsea defender, pundit), Dimitar Berbatov (former Manchester United striker, pundit). Also hosts Dan Thomas, Shaka Hislop, Stevie Nichol.
Key claims
- Everton’s Idrissa Gana Gueye was sent off after 13 minutes for slapping teammate Michael Keane; Everton defended well and won 1-0 despite being down to 10.
- United failed to capitalize on the extra man because they didn’t move the ball quickly or change pace, staying in “one gear.”
- United’s season struggles reflect a lack of winning culture/character; debate whether Ruben Amorim is responsible vs players.
- Spurs were “humiliated” vs Arsenal; consistency is the main Spurs problem under Thomas Frank.
- Arsenal look best for now; title race is a marathon, not a sprint.
- Liverpool’s scoring drought is psychological and habit-based; advice for Alexander Isak: stay mentally strong, build finishing habits, get honest support.
Notable examples
Pickford’s late saves; Dewsbury-Hall’s only goal; comparisons to past on-pitch fights (e.g., Newcastle incidents); Real Madrid/Elche segment about Vinicius benching and dressing-room tension (Vinicius vs Xabi Alonso).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMatch Recap: United vs. Everton
1:23 to 1:51
Overview of the match between Manchester United and Everton, highlighting key moments.
“What a game it turned out between Manchester United and Everton.”
United's Struggles Explained
1:51 to 2:51
Discussion on Manchester United's performance and struggles during the match.
“And for the very first time, Dimi Berbatov joins us as well.”
Everton's Defense and Tactics
2:51 to 4:25
Analysis of Everton's defensive strategy and how they managed to hold off United.
“I'm not sure Man Utd had been in Everton's half that much up to that point.”
Teammate Conflicts: A Deeper Look
4:25 to 6:31
Exploration of the incident between teammates during the match and its implications.
“As the game went on, of course, they're tired and United had more possession, brought more to Jordan Pickford.”
Reflections on Player Behavior
6:31 to 8:31
Discussion on player behavior during matches and its effects on team morale.
“And either sometimes you argue with the opposition, sometimes as it happens you argue with your own teammates.”
United's Current State: A Former Player's Perspective
8:31 to 12:57
Insights from former players on the current state of Manchester United and its challenges.
“So that's something that the club, in internal, had to sort out, because that's not a very good image of football and of Everton FC.”
Hope for United: Future Prospects
12:57 to 14:00
Discussion on whether Manchester United can improve and compete for top positions.
“we are wondering what is the right answer.”
Manchester United's Struggles
14:00 to 18:44
Discussion on Manchester United's current performance and challenges.
“That's the only thing that gives me hope right now.”
Analyzing Spurs vs Arsenal
20:59 to 28:01
In-depth analysis of Spurs' performance against Arsenal and team strategies.
“Not a good day for my former team, guys.”
Haaland's Impact on Manchester City
28:01 to 29:19
Discussion on Haaland's role and scoring impact for Manchester City.
“But in the conversation of the best striker ever in the Premier League, I mean the names you have there, Aron Shearer, Thierry Henry, Harit Kane, players that were available.”
Show all 23 chapters
Advice for Strikers at Liverpool
29:20 to 32:14
Dimitri shares advice for strikers under pressure at Liverpool, focusing on mental resilience.
“So maybe Haaland will be the same, scoring and scoring and scoring.”
Self-Care and Team Dynamics
32:15 to 34:34
Exploring the importance of individual performance and self-care in team success.
“is that with what's happening at Liverpool at the moment, are we in a situation where basically everybody's looking after themselves?”
Striker Dry Spells and Support Systems
34:35 to 36:20
Discussion on how strikers handle scoring droughts and the need for support.
“and looking after this guy and then we do that.”
Premier League Predictions
36:21 to 37:30
Dimitri predicts the end-of-season standings for Liverpool, Spurs, and United.
“Dimitri, one last question before I let you go.”
Real Madrid's Current Struggles
38:46 to 41:20
Analysis of Real Madrid's struggles under Xabi Alonso and player dynamics.
“The newly promoted host will be put to the test today against the might of Madrid.”
Rumors and Management at Real Madrid
41:21 to 42:05
Discussion on management challenges and player rumors affecting Real Madrid's culture.
“But you've got to bring the players along with you if you get the results.”
Real Madrid's Managerial Dilemma
42:05 to 44:41
Explore the challenges Xabi Alonso faces with player dynamics at Real Madrid.
“then it really is time for the alarm bells to start ringing, I think.”
Coaching Challenges and Player Dynamics
44:41 to 48:26
Discuss the complexities of managing player relationships and expectations in football.
“People, the way Vinny is, it's that or it's nothing.”
Debate on Eze's Performance
56:00 to 56:10
A lively discussion on whether Eze has had a better season than Elyse.
Building a Team Around Eze
56:11 to 57:26
Analysis of building a team around Eze and comparing his impact to Elyse.
“Do you think Eze's had a better season than Eze?”
Statistical Comparison of Eze and Elyse
57:28 to 58:06
Evaluating Eze and Elyse based on their season statistics.
“he's more likely to be on the ball more than Elyse will be.”
Outlook for Everton vs United
58:08 to 58:30
Discussion on the anticipated outcome of the Everton vs United match.
“Yeah, we'll go for Alize in all your questions.”
Thanksgiving Plans
58:31 to 59:18
Casual banter about Thanksgiving plans and gatherings.
“Stevie, you're off now for Thanksgiving.”
Transcript
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1:19Welcome into the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas joined by Shaka Hirsloff and Stevie Nicker. We'll kick things off at Old Trafford. What a game it turned out between Manchester United and Everton. Gaye would be sent off after 13 minutes for slapping his own teammate Keane. So Everton down to 10 men. Manchester United couldn't capitalise. In fact, it'd be Dewsbury Hall for the visitors who would score what would prove to be the only goal of the game. Some big saves from Jordan Pickford late on. But it was too little, too late for Amerine's side. Everton win by one goal to nil. For more, let's welcome in, shall we?
1:53Frank Leboeuf is with us. And for the very first time, Dimi Berbatov joins us as well. Dimi, let's start with you. That was embarrassing, wasn't it, from your old team? Hi, guys. Yeah, unfortunately, a bad, bad night for United and everybody connected with the club. Especially when you play 80 minutes with one man more on the pitch and not be able to score a goal. But credit to Everton and their whole team for defending the way they should. But still, though, something that United need to think of, that goal that they're missing to score, especially, again, playing with one man more on the pitch for 80 minutes.
2:36What the heck happened, Stevie? You think down to 10 men. But United were sloppy right from the start in this tie. Yeah, they were. I mean, you know, you thought straight away when they go down to 10, we're all sitting and going, well, this is done. Yeah. You know, because up until then, I'm not sure Man Utd had been in Everton's half that much up to that point. But it took them till the second half because for the rest of the first half, we saw the goal. Manchester United did nothing. Absolutely nothing. And yes, there was a bit of an onslaught in terms of territorial advantage. But the biggest problem United have, or had is not moving the ball quickly.
3:16When you're a man up and you move the ball around, then the opposition have to move around quicker, and that takes the legs out of them. Instead of that, you're knocking the ball around from side to side. It's so easy for Everton just to shuffle across. So you're not taking advantage of the extra man. That's the biggest problem. They didn't take advantage because he didn't move the ball quick enough. Are they complacent, Shaq? I don't know. It's difficult to explain, right, from a United perspective. Hard to explain, even more difficult to excuse. My first thought is for David Moyes here. He's had two weeks to think about this game, and then all of a sudden, in 13 minutes, two of your old players fighting, one gets sent off, and now you have to readjust.
4:01But credit to whether it's David Moyes or just the other 10 players left on the park, I thought Everton were great value for their point. No, the other side to that is you could, I would say Jordan Pickford was Everton's best player. Would get mad in the match. But that does not paint the true picture of how this game went. I thought the 10 men of Everton bossed this game for large spells. As the game went on, of course, they're tired and United had more possession, brought more to Jordan Pickford. But there were times where Everton looked the more likely to score. Even after the break, when Amarim makes changes and brings Mount on and Manzraoui goes off, I still think Everton defended wonderfully well, limited Manchester United's opportunities.
4:47And there was no real adjustment other than that. And maybe the argument is Ruben Amarim didn't have too much to call on, with Cescou and Cunha both out injured. But the truth is, United at home, a man up with, what, 60 minutes, 70 minutes of the game still to play. This should have been a foregone conclusion by halftime. Over 80 minutes, Shaq. I don't really need to question your maths. Frank, how do you explain this? Well, simply by the fact that I think Manchester United played only on one gear. They didn't change the pace at a certain point on the pitch, where normally you see Amadialo spacing up and traveling the defense.
5:29It was, again, the same pace and the same gear. And so you don't surprise the defense. And if you can play 10 against 11, I mean, I remember training with Gianluca Vialli, an Italian specialist, four against 10, and he couldn't score because we are well organized and we are moving. And if you don't change the pace and if you don't try to surprise the defense, you're not going to score. Yes, you need an artist like Dimitar Berdbatov, but otherwise it doesn't work. And that's what happened today or tonight for Manchester United. And Deuce Beryl showed how to change the pace and how to surprise. And one goal, bye-bye.
6:08Dimitar, don't believe a word. You should have heard what he was saying before you came on air.
6:15Have you ever wanted to punch a teammate, Dimitar? Pretty much every game, to be honest.
6:25Listen, I like stuff like this. It shows that you want to win. You're passionate. You want your team to do well. You want your teammates to do well. And sometimes tension boils. And either sometimes you argue with the opposition, sometimes as it happens you argue with your own teammates. And we've been witnessing in the past as well, bust up in the Premier League as much as you want. But again, you should stay in the dressing room. or after the game, not on the pitch, of course, because then you get the red card, you leave your teammates with Mad Men short. I am sure now after the game, probably those smiles into the dressing room because they won the game.
7:05But it's going to be sometimes going to be very difficult to justify actions like this, especially from someone who is so experienced as Idris Agui. He's 36. He needs to know better than this. Michael Kane is also 32. I play with him in Manchester. I expect he was still a young boy, but they are now mature players. They should know better than this, but still, things like this happen. Is this something that's gone on before, Frank? It was just bubbled over on the pitch, do you feel? This hasn't come out of nowhere. No, I think, yeah, it may be coming. It can come from nowhere. I mean, you can be excited by the game and you don't realise.
7:43I think it's what happened to Gay, where he thinks that King is going to follow and he wants to give the ball to him. and he realizes that, in fact, he made a stupid pass and being a bit, you know, annoyed by that. And then he reacts, we don't know what happened to the two of them before. But I don't think it can come from something in the past. But that's insane. That's really insane. I remember, and Shaka must remember, because it was at Newcastle, Boyer and Dyer fighting like crazy, being both red card in Newcastle, finishing eight against 11. That was insane. But it can happen. And for me, that's stupid.
8:22That put the shame on the team. That put the shame on the club. And I really think that maybe both of them, because Kinn pushed Gay. Instead of trying to calm down, he pushed him. And maybe pushed Gay to slap him. So that's something that the club, in internal, had to sort out, because that's not a very good image of football and of Everton FC. You experienced anything like that, Shaq? No. Not in the park. But to Craig's point, to Frank's point, I wasn't at Newcastle at the time of the incident that he referenced. I've not seen anything like that during a game. Obviously, there was the Ariel Berkovich and John Hartson incident at West Ham, but that was a new training ground.
9:10Again, it's one of those, and thank goodness for the result. because had Everton lost, this could have just kept going and going for who knows how long. But the fact that they won, at least it drops the temperature, allows players to laugh and just kind of figure things out. Had they lost, I think this could have been infinitely worse. See, when we were watching the game, you brought up Bruce Grobler and Stephen Mannan, which I had completely forgotten about. If there was VAR, they both had been sent off during that time. Yeah, well, because they both hit each other in the face. But it started and finished in the snap of your fingers.
9:50And of course, there's no VAR back then and it was only the cameras that picked it up. The referee and the linesmen don't see it. But is that something that still bubbles in the dressing room? No. That's so weird, isn't it? You wouldn't think that. It stops as quickly as it starts and it's forgotten. Because we all understand that there's things happen on the field and sometimes there's a bit of red mist and with Bruce, you know, Bruce lived on the edge a lot. Maka's the complete opposite. I mean, Maka's the complete opposite. There's nobody cooler and calmer than Maka, but even Maka retaliated.
10:28And again, it's the usual. Kane, 100 % is in the wrong. And if I'm David Moyes, I'm actually pointing the finger more at Kane because... Really? Well, Gay's reacted. Gay's reacted. The guy who's on the field of play, and we've seen it over the course of how many years, somebody has a bad challenge, the other guy loses control and hits him and gets sent off. The guy who retaliates gets sent off. And it's the same here. So if I'm Davey Moyes, I've got more of a problem that Keane has lifted his hands first. That's where I would start. Frank, have you ever come close? Chris Sutton, you hate him. No, no, he's pitied on me, but there was a year before when he was playing for Blackburn.
11:11But I remember one guy in Blackburn, Graham Lusso, having a fight as well. I don't remember against whom, but that was insane because I know Graham. Graham is the coolest guy in the world, you know, loving everybody. When I saw the image, it was before he signed for Chelsea. I couldn't believe, knowing him after that, that he was capable of doing that and not stopping and fighting back. So it never happened to me. And now I would have never reacted. You could be upset with somebody, but you don't go that far. I mean, you have to be, come on, you have to think a little bit, a bit. We know we're all football players.
11:48Sometimes we have empty brains, but still, think a little bit. Let's focus a little bit on Manchester United, Dimasara. It's incredible thinking when you were with them, of course, winning Premier League titles, one of the best teams in the world, to drop how far they have. It must still seem a bit of a surprise for someone who was there during the peak of their success. Of course it is. And it's even difficult sometimes to speak about the present days and then go back to the past and compare years and how long it's been since the last Premier League trophy. And it's in a way of speaking like United needs to go back to winning ways now for 13 years without that Premier League trophy.
12:31But it is what it is. It shows you that sometimes the Premier League is so difficult to compete even Liverpool now dropping to 11 after they became champions last year. Of course, it's credit to the other teams that they are building the competition. So you need to be better every year if you want to stay to the top. But from Manchester United perspective, honestly, sometimes when we spoke with former teammates, we are wondering what is the right answer. But that's probably the right answer. and we are just hoping that as soon as possible United will come back to the right part of winning games but obviously it's not going to be tonight as well because it was a I can say poor performance because you should be able to score at least against the opposition who is playing with one man short on the pitch but he was not able today so there's a long road again to walk until we can finally be sure that United will go back to the fighting for the Premier League.
13:33Dimitar, have you seen enough from Ruben Mamarin to believe that he is the right man for the job? Well, it's easy to sit here in my home or you guys in the studio and everybody can criticise. That's the easiest thing to do, right? Especially from us ex-football players. But I don't want to be that guy because I've never been a manager. I've never been in that chair. I've never felt that pressure. I've never managed a team. so it sounds a bit ridiculous if I give my opinion on that I just hope that he will find the right tools the right players the right system although we all know that he's not going to change his system but still though that hope is alive there that United will do something maybe the point difference not with the first but for the first places is not that big yet if they can find the right course of playing 10th place, 18 points, the 50s, 20s, 40s, 21.
14:34So it's not that big gap. That's the only thing that gives me hope right now. Yeah, everyone is beating everybody else, Frank. So in that sense, you know, there is still hope of Manchester United finishing maybe even in top four place. But in the same conversation, you could talk about them finishing 13th or 14th. Exactly. And with the result that they had today, you know, with an opportunity playing 11 against 10, you should have gotten the three points. And it's hard to believe that you can get better if you're not capable of having a result today. So, yeah, everything is possible, like Spurs.
15:06And they just won one spot above Manchester United. Everything is possible, even for the first three or four, for Chelsea, for anybody. You have to be really aware of what's going on behind you because that can change very quickly. So it's an open, well, open, no, it's not an open race for the title because we feel that Arsenal is already there. But after, it's really open for everything. You know, they showed the team, the very first team that Ruben Amarin put on the field and they compared it to the team today. And so he's changed half the team. And so I remember us talking about, well, it's a culture.
15:48That's the biggest thing. You can't argue that players at United have ability. But in order to be a top club and a top team, you need the right characters and you need the right culture. And so when you look at what Man United produced today, it's hard not to question the manager, considering he's changed half the team, but yet there's no difference from that first game to this game today. He's got injuries to deal with, isn't he? Yeah, but... Coming in, the sets go out. Right, well, let's go with that and talk about the culture and the character of the team. Right. And so that's why they don't beat 10 men today.
16:26That's why they get beat 1-0, because the characters in the team aren't capable of taking advantage of it, and the culture clearly isn't there, but they know in their heart, all we have to do is everybody gets together, everybody is going in the right direction, all is one, and we're going to steamroll 10 men. That isn't there. So, again, it's recruitment, but again, you have to look at the manager also. I find it a little hard to put so much of the blame on Amarim today. And maybe to your point, there are characters out in that part. Bruno Fernandes is out there. Casemiro is out there. There are characters, to Stevie's point.
17:05We've criticised Amarim time and time again for his rigidity with his three at the back, but he goes to four at the back for the second half. 11 men against 10 that's down to the men on the park if you allow the 10 men to outrun you to outwork you to out defend you that's down to the men on the park and so while I get Stevie's point about Amirim in the bigger picture today I absolve him of responsibility for today's result Dimitra do you agree with Shaka? I think yes to be honest because that's why I say sometimes it goes down for the manager. We can criticise him the way he sticks to his system, which he doesn't bring the result that we all want.
17:49At the same time, sometimes the characters on the pitch can decide the games. Although we have characters like the guys mentioned in the studio, like big-name players like Casemiro, who won pretty much everything. You have Bruno Fernandes there as a captain to lead the line. But obviously, even that sometimes is not enough. And when that culture of winning the Premier League is not there yet after so many years, it's difficult to get it back. It's difficult to get it back. And that's one of the problems, to get into that way of keep calm when the storm is going around. You'll find the right way.
18:25When the team is getting with 10 men, the opposition, now let's not be in a hurry. We'll find the right solution. We'll find the right pass. We'll find the right space. We'll improvise. We'll score a goal. Today, that's not the case. Even though we had chances to score, Pickford was probably man of the match as well. But you should win games like this if you want to go high on the table. Just a reminder, a lot more reaction to what we've seen in the Premier League over the last couple of days over on YouTube. Be sure to go to ESPN FC and subscribe. Look, the economy is a lot right now. And if you're a small business owner, you probably feel it.
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21:31How much was this Spurs being bad? How much was this Arsenal being great? Not a good day for my former team, guys. You're right. Spurs were very bad. Spurs were very bad. Not taking away the way Arsenal is playing, how they were entertaining at that particular day. The goals they score, Eze on the great form with the hat-trick. but Spurs as always that consistency in their performance is not there yet you know getting good results mixed with the bad results and at one point when you play your rival in that North London derby where you need to be 100 % you are going a bit defensive approach in that game with five at the back which is not aligned with Spurs' way of playing football and when you have someone like Arsenal with their ability on the ball they will find that space, they will find that pass, they will have a chance to score like they did.
22:27And unfortunately, again, on that particular day, Spurs were not in a good shape or form whatsoever through the whole game. Yeah, they scored a nice goal, but still, in the end, it was humiliating for everybody to watch. Frank? Yeah, I agree. I agree. I was just checking that Fulham won, so the good thing for Zdimitar, you know, for the weekend.
22:53Good things. And I'm not sure about Monaco, but whatever. All right, get on with your answer. Stop sucking up. I'm going to answer. Well, he said everything. Now, there is not much to say. You know, that was an humiliating defeat from Spurs because they didn't try anything. They didn't try. Well, maybe they couldn't. Maybe Arsenal were too strong for them. But I want to believe that Tottenham and Thomas Frank, they are better than that. and we didn't see anything. Credits to the Gunners because they were absolutely fantastic. I mean, I really like Declan Rice and every time I see him playing, I love the involvement that he put into the game defensively, but also what he brings offensively and the first part that he makes to Eze when he scored his goal.
23:39I mean, that guy is amazing, but he's the mirror of what I see from every player and the involvement that they have to win the games every weekend. So that was amazing what I saw from Arsenal and really appalling from Spurs. What's the big problem with Spurs? Obviously, they sacked Ange Postogoglu despite winning the European trophy. Thomas Frank came in and he hasn't had the impact that I think people were hoping for, Dimitar. Well, let's not jump to conclusion, right? Again, it's easy. And of course, the first one to be blamed is the manager, as always. You can easily change one manager and not 22 players.
24:20But, I mean, it's too early to judge. It's still very early days for Spurs with Frank in charge. He's going to hopefully find his footing, find the way to make Spurs play in the way that everybody wants them to play, which, of course, is more entertaining football. Like in the first months or weeks in Ange, when he stepped in charge, he was playing that attack in football. Everybody was admiring him. that, of course, after that, unfortunately, things didn't go well for him and the club. Now Frank is playing a bit more flexibility, depending who he's playing on, sometimes more defensively, sometimes more direct.
24:59But still, it's early days. It's early days. I would like to give him more time with the team because I think he's in the right place with his vision for the game. Of course, as he now knows, it's not going to be easy. He has more exposure for him. Spurs is a big, big team. So he needs to get the result. But the only thing that I would like for them to get is the consistency, which means getting the right result, even if you don't play good. And Dimitar, consistency obviously is what Arsenal have brought to the table so far this season. For many, they've already won the title. Do you agree with that?
25:32No, no. Frank know as well. You guys know as well. Premier League is not a sprint. It's a marathon. Now comes the Boxing Day, the Christmas pictures, the games where you'll be tested. And if you get out of these fixtures in good results and comes the new year, you're in a good position. If we speak about Arsenal, if they're still in the first place with good advantage on the points on the table, then they're halfway there. But let's, of course, not jump to the conclusion yet because, of course, Sipia dropping points. Liverpool, as I mentioned, are low down in the table. But there are other teams, Chelsea, of course, Frank X team they are teams that can surprise and six points is a good cushion to have but in the Premier League that's nothing could be nine points of course Frank after next weekend yes exactly that could be nine points but that could be three points as well you know if I'm better than Xhaka in math and it could do it could do it could go very well the only the only concern that I have and I'm listening to Dimitar is I say okay it's not crucial.
26:41Six points is not crucial. Arsenal are not there yet. But who can beat them? If I look and watch every game that I saw, yeah, Manchester City, maybe. Maybe. But they lost against Newcastle. But otherwise, I don't see any consistency, which makes me think, OK, maybe that team can come back. Liverpool and Stevie can witness that. I think we don't recognize them and it's going to be an off-season for them. But after that, I don't see who can really fight against Arsenal. And Dimitar is right, but right now, I don't see anybody being able to compete with them. You mentioned, of course, Manchester City losing Newcastle at the weekend.
Read the full transcript
27:25A blow to their title credentials. Great performance from Newcastle. Of course, all the goals coming in that six-minute spell. We spoke at length about this game at the weekend, so I don't want to really go over old ground. But I do want to bring up something that Frank Leboeuf said a few weeks ago during an argument we had. The question was, is Erling Haaland the best ever striker in the Premier League? And whose name did he bring up in that conversation? Our guest today, Dimitar Berbatov. So I suppose, Dimitar, you're the right person to ask who's better, you and your pom or Haaland? Oh, no.
28:01Come on, guys. I think Haaland is a beast. He is a level above me for sure. But in the conversation of the best striker ever in the Premier League, I mean the names you have there, Aron Shearer, Thierry Henry, Harit Kane, players that were available. But in his case, if he continues on that rate, he is going to be among the best for sure. How much of a problem though is it, Dimitri, for City that it seems to be if he doesn't score, no one else does? It can be a problem because then obviously you're going to have a bad day. You're going to miss the chances. You're not going to score one or two games.
28:47Then someone else needs to step up. But when you get used to your big star to score every game, sometimes that can be a problem because then nobody's used to score goals. just your main striker. So that's something that I think Gordillo knows pretty well. And that's why they should find a solution for this. Either someone else will take this responsibility or they should, you know, continue to fit in with the balls to score. Like, for example, Harry Kane was for Spurs. Harry Kane was the main guy who was scoring goals season after season after season. And in that regard, they didn't have much problem.
29:20So maybe Haaland will be the same, scoring and scoring and scoring. One last thing, Deepitha. I know you've got to go soon, but I just want to switch attentions quickly to Liverpool. Liverpool, of course, losing at home against Nottingham Forest. So many questions about where it's gone wrong so far for the defending champions this season. Obviously, sitting in the bottom half of the table after that home defeat against Forest. Dimitri, I want to talk to you about Alexander Izak. If he rang you up and he said, look, what advice would you give me to get going at Liverpool, to get on the score sheet, what would you say to him?
29:54Don't think about the price tag. Don't think about it. I know that he's probably thinking from time to time because that's a lot of money paid for one player. The transfer that was happening that happened, happened in the manner that you don't want it to happen. It reminds me a bit of myself back in the day where I wanted to go to United for Spurs. People were disappointed. People were angry. Fans were angry. When you have a situation like this, it's going to affect you. Then when you go to the new team, of course, expectations are there. You put expectations on yourself. You know about the price tag, even if you don't admit it.
30:30Now you know that everybody's expecting from you to take the ball from your own half and pretty much bring it to the other half and score by yourself. But that's not the case. Of course, if your team is going through difficult moments and games like Liverpool's right now, you're going to suffer. You're a striker. You're depending on the crosses, on the balls from the midfield so you can score goals. He's in a difficult position. I can only give an advice in a short sentence stay strong in the head here is the answer How difficult is it to do that? As you say, with the price tag, with the Anfield fans with the fact they're defending champions and they're nowhere near Arsenal at the moment psychologically that's got to be something that you really struggle with day to day I'm not going to give you a light to it it's very difficult and it's going to be very difficult So my thinking will be, and it was when I was in this position, get good people around you.
31:29People that will tell you the truth. When you need to hear the truth, they will be honest with you. Of course, the teammates to be supportive. The manager needs to continue to believe in you, to know that you're going to play. Because the strikers, we are a different breed. We think that we are special. Big egos. We want to feel special and to feel welcome. Selfish. Also, if you're a striker, you need to be able to score goals. And the manager is crucial here to be there and support him in that difficult moment that he is now. And, of course, him as a player, as a player who wants to show that he is good enough, again, stay strong in the head.
32:11It's not that easy, of course. And that's why good people around you are crucial. And I suppose the problem with that, Stevie, is that with what's happening at Liverpool at the moment, are we in a situation where basically everybody's looking after themselves? Well, I would suggest that, you know, to begin with, everybody has to do that. You know, the question you asked Dimitar there, I was thinking about Paul and I, Paul Mariner, and he used to tell me all the time, whenever he went through a dry spell, a gold drought, the way he would forget about it is by every single day on his own with a goalie and somebody else and do finishing for half an hour.
32:50He'd do it every single day. So when he turned up the only thing he had in his mind was what he'd spent the whole week doing. Putting the ball in the back of the net. Just a little thing to trick your mind into thinking you're actually scoring goals and you're not going 10 games or whatever it is without a goal. So that's what I was thinking about when you asked me that. So is this just a case, Dimitar, he gets one and it's like Van Nistelroen used to say, didn't he? It's like ketchup out of a bottle. Then it would just keep coming and coming. Or is it such a psychological block at the moment that even if you get one, you won't necessarily add to that quickly because of the way Liverpool are playing?
33:24Exactly. Both ways work. Sometimes you score one and another will follow, another will follow, and then you're in a great position. Then you score one, another dry spell will follow. It's different. It's different. But I agree completely that sometimes building the right habit of putting the ball in the back of the net. If that means in the practice, in the training round, even if you don't have a goalkeeper, just a goal, someone cross you the ball, just get in the habit of putting it in the back of the net. Get that self-belief that even if a good ball is coming to you, you are confident and concentration enough to put it in the back of the net.
33:56And of course, the one goal is the start. That will give you the confidence back because striker feeding on that confidence of scoring goal. So when he scores that first goal, a big problem will resolve from itself. But then he needs to continue on that consistency of scoring goal. Again, it's more easy said than done, of course. Especially if your team is in a bad situation and don't play good football, like Liverpool right now in this moment. It's going to be more difficult for him. Just to go back to your question about... The reason I said you have to look after yourself first is because everybody who steps on the field has to do their job first.
34:33Right. You know, it's one thing to talk about looking after your teammates and looking after this guy and then we do that. But you need everybody to, first and foremost, do the job that you're putting the team to do. And then once everybody sorts themselves out, then you can pull it all together. But you need everybody to do their job first before they can help each other. And then, of course, as a defender, you can play on that, surely, against a striker who's struggling. Yes, yes, of course. You can intimidate him, you can say bad words to him. But you know what? You always pay attention to a wooden beast, you know, because if he wakes up, he's going to be terrible.
35:21So you better leave him on the side, you know, and forget about him and just let him deal with his issues. issues, but it's true that you play on that, you know, and when he misses an action, you say, oh, my God, you're not the player you used to be. You could say that. I never did, but you could say that. And, but I heard people saying that, oh, my God, the guy, the guy is not there. He's not there anymore. That's terrible. That's really terrible. But it can happen to defenders as well. You know, when you try one time, you tackle, it doesn't work another time, and a goal and a non-goal against you, and sometimes it goes and goes.
35:58Yeah, it's difficult. And you feel sympathy, you know, for Isaac, like for all the guys who have a dry spell, because you say, oh, my God. Because we know they eat that. They need that. They need that to stop being starved. And that's what it is. And I really hope that Isaac's going to try to find the net very soon and he's going to be better. Dimitri, one last question before I let you go. Tottenham Hotspur, Manchester United, Liverpool, what order do they finish at the end of the season? You're provoking me here. No, I never. Oh, you've made that before. You've made it before. Oh, boy. Of course, I'm biased here.
36:45Of course, I'm going to say Liverpool should finish behind Tottenham and United, you know? Yeah. Hopefully, Spurs... Oh, you don't have to. Shut up, Frank. Well, hopefully Spurs and United will get their act together. And as I said, the difference between the point between the fourth and the third team is not that big right now. So that's the only thing that is good from this day if you can take something. But the consistency, that factor goes for both teams, for Spurs and for United, in my opinion. If they don't find that, they're going to suffer again this season. Did you answer my question then?
37:27Yes, Liverpool behind, Spurs and United for sure. Oh, yes. Thank you very much. Not bad at all. Much appreciated. Welcome back. Just a reminder, Frank's back with us, Shaka and Stevie as well, to answer your questions on Extra Time, which is always available on our YouTube channel. Are you looking to rebound from your high-interest credit card debt? A SoFi personal loan can help you get back on track. Consolidate your debt with a SoFi personal loan into one loan monthly payment, and you could save money on interest over time. And with as soon as the same day funding, you could hit the ground running ASAP.
38:03Apply today with no fees required at SoFi.com slash debt rebound. Loans originated by SoFi Bank, NA member, FDIC. Terms and conditions apply, NMLS 696891. Fast funds terms apply at SoFi.com slash debt rebound. The FIFA World Cup 2026 is back, America. and that means it's time to let the snacking begin. This summer, Leyes is inviting everyone to jump on the bandwagon. You don't know the rules, you don't know any of the players, doesn't matter, the bandwagon is for everyone. So grab a bag of Leyes, gather friends and keep the party going. Leyes' official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026. Round 13 in La Liga brings us Elche against Real Madrid.
38:48The newly promoted host will be put to the test today against the might of Madrid. Kylian Mbappe in the starting 11. Vinicius Junior is not. Favos, Valera, Favos again! Has put Elche ahead! And that was a sensational move. They need Real Madrid. Trent Alexander, Paulus is bouncing around. They've got the equalizer. Housen in. Dean Housen with the final touch. And Real Madrid get the payoff. Alvaro Rodriguez. Is he going to score against his old club? Yet he is! Yet he is! What about this? Can you believe it? Can you believe that? There's something else drop around the box here. Bellingham's effort.
39:32He follows it up and it's 2-2. The lead didn't last long. Jude Bellingham striking. Right place, right time. Real Madrid had to work for that. They will go back to the top by a point. You look at that side today and you think, what's changed from Carlo Ancelotti's side? The answer is nothing. They need to wake up.
39:55Fair to say the honeymoon is well and truly over for Xavi Alonso. Of course, three games now without a win for the new coach. A lot of different talking points reflecting on that game and that form of play as Alex Kirkland joins us. Alex, I suppose the big one, isn't it? Vinicius Jr., who looked just delighted to be on the bench. And that has now sparked rumours that he has told Real Madrid, hey, I am not saying anything about a new contract. as long as Alonso's here. Yeah, well, that situation's been stalled for a long time, Dan. And we know the situation between Vinicius and Alonso in particular, it's been the case since the summer.
40:31It started in the summer when Alonso came in, going back to the Club World Cup. Around that time, Vinny's camp started to feel that the player wasn't, you know, the kind of player that the coach was particularly enamoured with. And that's continued every time he's been on the bench. And he's been benched multiple times by Alonso so far this season, and something that never happened, really, under Carlo Ancelotti. When Vili was fit, he played. He was, you know, untouchable under that regime, and that's no longer the case. And like I say, it's been brewing now for months, and certainly there are growing reports here that he's not the only one.
41:04This situation between Xabi Alonso and the dressing room, something that Alonso denied after the Elche game, he said, no, the connection between me and the players is improving, it's getting better and better. It doesn't look like that's the case. Now, I think this was always going to be a potential issue, you know, going from the anti-Lotti regime to Xabi Alonso to completely contrasting coaches in terms of styles. That was never going to be easy. But you've got to bring the players along with you if you get the results. At the start of the season, Madrid were getting results. Now they are not.
41:34And increasingly, there are signs that the players are not happy during that Elche game. Some of the things that we've been told were kind of non-negotiable under Alonso, working off the ball, out of possession, tracking back, intensity. We're not getting that now from a number of round-of-trip players. And this situation is really getting quite serious there. I think there's five games now coming up to the City game in the Champions League. And over those five games, if we don't start getting results, if the players don't look like they're on board with the Xabi Alonso project, Vinicius Junior and all the rest, then it really is time for the alarm bells to start ringing, I think.
42:11This is fascinating, Stevie, because this is a case of it's OK to treat the players like that by Leverkusen, but at Real Madrid, it's a different breed. You know, we were talking earlier about culture. The culture at Real Madrid is that El Presidente upstairs is more interested in... Spanish, Stevie, is classic. I know, yeah, I've been practising. He's way more interested in keeping the players happy than the manager because he clearly thinks I can get another manager. Right. So if this does continue, and the rumblings with Vinny in particular, then it wouldn't be a shock for Xavi Alonso to be let go.
42:45But he's been there, Shaq. He's been at big clubs. He's been at Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Liverpool. He surely knows that maybe you have to treat these sort of players differently than he has done in the past. That's the biggest surprise to me. Xavi Alonso knows dressing rooms, successful dressing rooms, like probably nobody else in the game right now. So for him to have this kind of disconnect with this Real Madrid dressing room is as big a surprise to me as I'm sure it is to Xavi Alonso. And how the question now is, kind of given where we are, how do you fix that? How do you make that right?
43:18Vinicius Jr. has clearly made his opinions known, and you can't make it right with him. Can other things come up? Can other relationships be fixed in that dressing room? Again, I'm not sure. And the only outcome I see, or the most likely outcome I see to this right now is, given where we are, with Real Madrid and that dressing room, if Real Madrid don't win anything this season, it is not beyond Ferencino Perez to let Xabi Alonso go. Even before the end of the season. And then probably the only, if you're a Liverpool fan, you're probably thinking, the way things are going here, this would be great for us.
43:56that otherwise this just continues to twist and turn and only gets worse as the season goes on. You pulled a face when I said to Xhaka that he should know. I don't see Xavi Alonso kissing people's backside just to keep the guy upstairs happy and keep them happy. You know, there comes a stage where you... If what's happening at the moment isn't working. But to that point... But that's not really... You have to respect yourself before anybody else. Right. And if you are that way inclined, that the only way you can do it is by going around kissing Vinny Jr's backside, then you know what? You don't have to kiss backside.
44:39Surely you just have to play. Yeah, that's my... People, the way Vinny is, it's that or it's nothing. You think so? Absolutely, 100%. I mean, the game, we showed his face. It speaks a thousand words. Look at the way he acted a couple of weeks ago. Why should this guy be on the field? It's all about him. Me, me, me. And again, it depends on Xabi Alonso. And I don't see Xabi Alonso losing his own self-respect to keep a guy like Vinny Hartman just because he wants a job. Now, don't get me wrong. It is arguably the biggest job in football. but at the end of the day, is that worth your own self-respect?
45:20I don't think so. See, my thing is, I'm not asking Javi Alonso to kiss anybody's behind here. That's not... Can you say something, Shaka? Go ahead. The thing is, how can he ask other people in the team and the squad to do things and then let Vinny off with not doing it? Because that's the reason Vinny's sitting in his backside. That's not what I'm saying. So, let... And my surprise around Xabi Alonso here is, if Xabi Alonso was a player in that team, in that dressing room, what would he as a player, as the captain, be saying to Vinicius Junior to get the best out of him? Now, again, to my point, nobody knows that situation as a player better than Xabi Alonso.
46:04The dressing rooms that he sat in, Bayern, Liverpool, Real Madrid, nobody knows that better than Xabi Alonso. So now to see him to kind of struggle to fix that relationship or build that, how are we going to phrase it? As a head coach, as a manager, I find surprising because if he was in that dressing room as a player, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have fixed it. And the problem is, being a player and being a coach, on the face of it, seem like a similar type of job. Right. But it's not. It's a completely different ballgame. As a player, you're looking after yourself, you're listening to the manager.
46:38if you can help other people you do. When you become the coach, it's a different ball game. And you've got to deal with El Presidente. You've got to deal with El Presidente sat up the stairs. A lot going on. Who you know, who you know by the way because his record tells you that if you don't keep the big boys happy then you're at the door. That's a horrible place to be. The Madrid media is extremely powerful. El Presidente of course runs some of it, Alex. Which side are they taking in this? He's back. He's definitely back. Well, look, it's hard to give a definitive answer on that at this stage.
47:13There's a lot of criticism now for Xavi Alonso. No question about that. Criticism of his team selection, his tactics, and the fact that the results aren't going their way. There's also criticism for the players. Of course, when you get results like this, a series of results like this, against Liverpool, against Rayo, against Elche, there's criticism for some of the players for not performing. But ultimately, I mean, going back to the point that I was just talking about, if it's a choice between how do you solve this? you change the coach, you change a whole bunch of the players. It's much easier to do one of those things than the other.
47:43And at Real Madrid, it's always been ultimately the coach that goes. The irony in all this is that this is kind of why Xabi Alonso was brought in. You bring in Xabi Alonso to shake things up, to get rid of some of the bad habits that had developed under the previous regime. There was a widespread feeling last season that the players had too much power, that the coach was too soft on them, and sort of, to a certain extent, gave them too much freedom. So what do you do? You bring in Xabi Alonso to change those things. He has changed a lot of those things. And like I say, I guess you can only do that if the results go along with it.
48:15But there's no doubt that the pressure is really growing now. It's starting to get quite serious. And there is genuine discussion now about, like I say, not even end of the season, in the relatively short term. These next few games, you've got Olympiacos, of course, this week in the Champions League. Then it's Girona, Athletic Club in La Liga. That's a big one. And especially the City game. if by then, like I say, just five games, if things haven't turned around, we could potentially be looking at decision-making time, which seems extraordinary to say when you think about how quickly we've got to this point.
48:46But we're not that far away now. Xhaka's already got him going to Liverpool. Alex, thank you very much, mate. Much appreciated. A lot more on the fallout from Real Madrid's draw against Elche on the latest edition of the Gab and Jules podcast. You know, recommendations can be great. Maybe someone recommended this podcast, and here you are. But home projects are different. If a podcast isn't your thing, you lose a few minutes. If you hire your cousin's neighbor to mount your TV, you might end up with a lopsided screen and wall damage. Maybe I know a guy just isn't enough for your home. That's why Thumbtack works.
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49:55Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Stay with us. Frank returns to answer some of your questions. Shaka and Stevie as well. A lot of them about fighting your teammates. Or your present colleagues. Stay with us.
50:17Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Frank Leboeuf joins us. Shaka Hislop's here. Stevie Nichol as well. A lot of the questions about infighting as well. Is that the first one we've got today? We talked about this on the show, obviously. Questions for Stevie, Shaka and Frank. Oh, no, okay, here we go. Shaka, was that supposed to be red or yellow card for Garnagay? It was a red card. Yeah, you can't punch someone in the face. Oh, how's the face? You're going to punch a red card. There you are. Here we go. Shaka says so. There we go. He didn't punch him. He didn't punch him. Will Smith him, didn't he?
50:51It wasn't about Will Smith, really. It was a slap. That's more humiliating. What was Will Smith? I'd rather be punched than slapped. But, slaps is humiliation, you know? Yeah. Don't you think so? Yeah, red card, red card. Okay, perfect, red card. I think my questions are out of order. Let's see what we have next. What excitement. I can't see that far, you know? The next North London derby is February the 21st, 2026. So will Thomas Frank be in charge at Spurs? Shaka? That's the day before my birthday. Is it? Yes. It's my birthday this Friday, by the way. Yes, let's talk about that. Yes, exactly.
51:25And me, January 22nd. Yep, yep. Are you here next week, Frank? Yes! Yes! You will have freebies! You will have freebies, Dan Thomas! You can go to the restaurant with me. I'll have my shorts out ready. My name's a little in the normal at the moment. I have your shorts, Dan. Sorry? Never mind.
51:53Yes, Thomas Frank will still be in charge. Steven. On my birthday. Correct me if I'm wrong. How old were you being then, Shane? Huh? 48. Yeah. Yeah, good luck. Correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. So it was Daniel Levy that hired Frank. Is that correct? Sure.
52:16Yes, it was. So there's a possibility that he might not be. Because when the hierarchy changes, people want to make... People want to make a statement and if they think they want to be the person that makes the change, I think it matters that it's not Daniel Levy. For Stevie, should Liverpool focus on the Champions League? Beat Real Madrid, didn't they?
52:47Do you know what? You can't even... Right now... Who have you got this week? Do you know?
52:57PSV PSV, alright Right now Did you just say mumble then? No, I was trying to figure out who they were playing in Champions League I talked to myself now and again I don't know if you noticed I was trying to figure out PSV, Shaka says Do you know, actually, right now all they've got to do is it doesn't matter if their next game is the Calibou Cup the FA Cup, the league, whatever, it really doesn't matter. They've got to try and win a game. Yeah, but didn't we think they did that against Real Madrid? We thought, oh, here we go. Corner turned. Oop, there it is. Well, you've got to start again. Dan, you get knocked down, what do you do?
53:36Well, you get back up against Chambawamba. Chambawamba. Go on Real Madrid up. So you've got to start again. Let's have you again. You've got to start again. Get on your feet and get after it. We'll have you again. No, that's the answer. El Presidente. El Presidente. We all do wins. When it's not just. We all do it on Wednesday. That's the game. Oh God. My stitches are going to go. You don't make that kind of joke. Let me tell you something. Stevie said he wouldn't give me CPR if I collapse. I'll repay the favour. I'll repay the favour. What a sight that would be. People are like no. No. Oh no!
54:20He still has. He opens the eyes to see Stevie loose in his tight. He'll be like, I'm alright, I'm alright. I need to go for a warm up post. You're a mariner. I'm good, thank you, I'm good. There's an extra time question. Which colleague would you prefer to? Can you see me up here? Right, come on, serious soccer show. Frank, if you're captain of Everton, how would you handle the Gay Keane incident? Do you deal with it at half-time, post-match, or wait until training? I would wait until training. Right. Because half-time, of course not. After the game, they won't, so everything is OK. But I think you have to deal to make sure that the dressing room works well.
55:00And you need to solve out the problem because it's a failure if they don't go along together. So especially when you see Everton, you know that you have to work together and they showed it 10 against 11. So you have to carry on like that. You need to solve the problem. They have to go into peace. Otherwise, it's gonna be a nightmare. It's over. You don't need to talk about it in training. Somebody will show up at training on Monday with two sets of boxing gloves, everybody laughs, and then everybody moves on. And it's done. You agree, Stevie? Yep. Which former Palace man, that's a good question for you, Shaft-Li Bundesliga, would you build a team around?
55:40Elysee or Eze? And who will outperform on Wednesday? I've been my team around as it right and and who will yeah who will be the star I suppose on Wednesday we saw I think Barnwell would so I'm gonna go you think so away against Arsenal yeah why right there right in that gut right in the gut Stevie? Eze. Eze? Yep. Why? Well, he's... Eze to both. Eze to both. Eze's had a better season, hasn't he? Well, you're asking me or telling me. I'm telling you. OK. Because it's a fact. If you think. Whatever you think. Do you think Eze's had a better season than Eze? No. I've not thought about the question.
56:28Well, I'm asking the question now. I'm just telling you that I would build it around Eze. Yeah, but the argument is Eze's had a better season, hasn't he, than Eze. That's a fact. Let me know when you answer the question. Well, I'm asking you a sub-question. Just give MCBR now. Just give MCBR now. Just shut him up. Stevie, do you really think that people change? Do you know because they are that thing, you know, that he's going to change? They're going to be humble and wiser and a nice person? No, he's still Dan Thomas. He's still the same. Humble and nicer. I think he's proven your point today already.
57:04So, what's your answer? Which one? Which question? The questions that you've decided you want to ask. Oh my God, you just asked me three different questions at one time. We'll give the answer to all three questions. So, in terms of Eze, I would build a team around Eze. I think Eze is going to be involved more both going forward and defensively. I think Elici relies more on other players to get him the ball than Eze does. That is my answer, thank you. Okay, and who will be the star on Wednesday between the two of them? I think I will go with Eze again. Okay. Because they're at home. he's more likely to be on the ball more than Elyse will be.
57:39OK. And who's had the better season is the third question. Well, I know what you think. Yes. Because you just told me ten times in the space of ten seconds. My opinion means nothing. I'm a mere humble presenter. Well. What am I hearing? Well, it depends on what you're after. Are you after numbers? If we're looking at numbers here, Elyse's had a better season. It's not a difficult question. In terms of data, Elyse's had a better season. Right, data. Yes. And that's what you're going on? Yeah, I'm going with data. OK. Not data. No. Data. Don't start. You say data, I say data. Final question. Frank, do you want to say anything?
58:21Yeah, we'll go for Alize in all your questions. Yeah, all the answers, Alize. Right answer. Stevie, when Everton play United, what kind of outcome are you hoping for? What? The one I got. Oh, I see. Because it's... You don't hate Everton, though. No. No. Only when we play them. There isn't quite the same... No. No, it's not the same. Anger in the eyes. Correct. Alright, lovely. Well, Frank, start packing. Saving some money for dinner. Lovely. Yeah. We look forward to it. Of course. Stevie, you're off now for Thanksgiving. You might a liar. I am. Stevie's going to somewhere where he's got 45 people for Thanksgiving.
59:01What? That's a lot of people. What? I know. 46. 46? Yeah. And they all pretend to be your friends? No. No. No. No, they don't understand what you're saying. That's it. They're just going, I'm going to make it. Is that your release? That's it, then. ESPN FC. Good luck to Eleonore. Have a lovely time, Stephen. Thank you very much, Daniel. And Shakra enjoying Football Americas tonight. Thank you, Dan. We'll be back. Again. Oh, thank you. We'll be back tomorrow for more Champions League talk.
1:00:01Good Energy out. Energy for life.
From the publisher
The FC Crew are joined by Premier League legend Dimitar Berbatov to react to a wild match between Everton and Manchester United. Also, discussion on Arsenal's dominant win vs Spurs over the weekend and Liverpool's continuous struggles. Then, a breakdown of the reports that Vinicius Junior's refusal to renew his Real Madrid contract while Xabi Alonso is in charge.
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