Futbol Americas: Matarazzo and Sociedad with the Upset

0:06A happy Monday to you all. He is Shaka Hislop. I'm Cristina Alexander, usually Hercules Gomez, in studio to make it business casual. But today, it's all business. And we also welcome in our Kasey Keller. He's going to be hanging out with us all, I was going to say all week, Kasey. But you're probably counting down to that Seahawks game. I asked you right before coming on air, so you're happy today.

0:35Go Hawks. Go Hawks. That's the only statement we need to know, right? All right. Coming up, we will talk about a different kind of statement. Josh Sargent's future with Norwich City very much up in the air, and we will also break down Pepe's possible move there to the Premier League with the big looming question, is that move to Fulham still on? But before, maybe there was a question as to how Pellegrino Matarazzo was going to do with Real Sociedad. Well, he had the statement on Sunday against Football Club Barcelona, the team that is in first place at the moment in La Liga. So we're going to give you a little recap as to how that win went.

1:192-1, the final score.

1:31That's going to count. Puts his full might behind it to give Real Sociedad the lead. They've made their changes, but no, Garcia keeps it up. That's Barcelona, they're under pressure. Oh, what a turnaround. He's taken them a minute to restore the lead. Real Sociedad. They can celebrate a famous victory for Real Sociedad. And speaking of statements, Pelegrino Matarazzo is the first to defeat a first place team in the second half of the season. That's why I said quite the statement at this point in the season against this Barcelona. Jesse Marsh also beat a first place team against Stuttgart and David Wagner as well against Leipzig.

2:17Matarazzo spoke with our Sid Lowe. You started the night walking into the stadium with a guard of honor from the drummers, from the Tamborrada, an extraordinary atmosphere and then it ends with a victory over Barcelona. It's been quite a good night. Very special night, very special night. I think this moment in time where we're in a good moment, play against Barcelona is also in a very good form. We have one of the most important days of the year for San Sebastian coming up with a tambourada on Tuesday. It was just a little magic in the atmosphere. We felt it. We connected very well to each other and also to the fans.

2:59The stadium was incredible today. And we pulled through. What a night. What a result. I'm really proud of the boys. So you pulled through. How did you pull through? What was the key to coming away with the victory tonight?

3:16I don't know how much depth I should go into but surely we had to withstand several chances, a lot of opportunities from Barcelona. We defended with a lot of heart, we played with a lot of heart. Our reaction after the 1-1 was fantastic. We conceded the 1-1, we immediately go to goal, have a chance for the 3-1, defend even with one man less with everything we got. So I think that was super important. And against teams like Barcelona and where we're at right now, it's important to have a little bit of luck on your side like we did today and an excellent goalkeeper. Alex played a fantastic match.

3:57So I think all in all, a bit lucky, but because of the heart we showed today, also in a way deserved. That heart that you're talking about, it feels like it's something that runs through all of the performances since you've been here. And all of them have been slightly different, it feels to me, from the outside, at least in terms of the adaptability. A different approach to the Atletico game as there was to the Getafe game, where it felt like you knew that you had to kind of adapt to how Getafe play. The response to going behind in the Copa del Rey and then tonight. There's a commonality, but there's also a variety.

4:27Yes, of course, because every match is different. Every match has its own key. We have our way of playing football, which is clear, but there's a certain variability to it. It's important to be pragmatic and have solutions in every scenario and whatever we need to win the game. We prefer to press high, but if it's necessary, we're ready to defend in a low block. And if we have to defend in a low block and transition to win the game, then we will. We'll do it. If we have to do it for 90 minutes, we will. And I think that readiness from the players is special to accept our idea, our model, and to be active in all phases of the game is also very important for me, what we've seen throughout the games.

5:11And yeah, I think that's important to be able to adapt to the opponent, and the guys have done it fantastically. Can I ask you finally about you and how you're finding this experience and how much you're enjoying it, and what's different for you compared to the experiences you've had so far in Germany? I mean, football is football. Of course, the league is different, new teams, a little bit different style, more technical tactical instead of more transitional like in Germany. But the game stays the same. I'm very much enjoying this club, the players, the team, the staff. just good characters, great values that I can completely identify myself with so it's, yeah, we're working very well together and the city is a beautiful city as well so it's not a bad place to be right now.

6:04You could have chosen a better place really as far as the city is concerned anyway. No, no, I'm happy to be here. Matarazzo very happy to be there and I'm sure Real Sociedad happy to have him. Case, what message did Matarazzo and Real Sociedad Zen after beating Barcelona the way they did? Well, I think it started a couple weeks ago. I mean, in your opening game, which I was fortunate enough to call against Atletico Madrid, you saw that there was a response from the players. We knew they were down low in the table. They were technically in a relegation fight with a lot of matches left. And what I was worried about for a coach like Montorazzo, who had no real history in Spain, who, yes, did some cool things in Germany, but it wasn't as if there was like some, you know, big Champions League performances that maybe the Spanish media and the Spanish fans knew about with him.

7:05So I was very adamant in the broadcast that he had to get off to a good start. He had to win the players over. He had to win the fans over. He had to win the press over. And, you know, being able to host a club like Atletico Madrid, get a result, go on the road at Getafe, get a result, and then, you know, beat Barcelona at home and then throw in a cup match that you get through. I don't think you could have asked, you couldn't have asked him, you know, before you took over this job, that you are going to get four points in your first three games against Atletico, Madrid and Barcelona. And so, dream start, and now it really is about, you know, consolidating and making sure that they just continue to play well.

7:54Yes, they'll have hiccups, 100%. But then, you know, what's that message after that? because so far, brilliant start. Yeah, absolutely. But Case just said something that's obviously very important, Shaq, to be able to continue this. But with what he's done so far, and like Casey said, getting the confidence of the players clearly, where do you see this Real Sociedad kind of developing and what's left of the season? Well, clearly, in the results so far, it's very encouraging, and there's a lot of potential to it. The thing for me that kind of stands Matarazzo out, certainly in his start thus far, is how he's gotten this team to understand their roles.

8:33Now, you saw him in Germany employ a high-pressing, high-energy game. More times than not against Barcelona, you found success because they play a high-pressing line and this high-defensive line. Teams have found success with having runners coming from deep. But Matarazzo kind of stuck to his guns in that, I'm going to press high. I'm going to put you under pressure. I'm going to force you into mistakes. But at the same time, and he touched on this in the post-game interview with Sid, at times they had to sit back. You're playing against Barcelona. You have to soak up pressure. You have to play in this low block.

9:12But whichever way Sociedad went about their business, they did it as a team. And they seemed to understand every phase of the game in that regard and what was needed of each other. Now, you don't normally get that three, four games into a managerial tenure. So Matarazzo somehow has performed magic with the Sociedad team and gotten results. And once you get this game, certainly in terms of the players and being welcomed by the players, it's pretty simple. You win games, you get results, we buy it in. And as of right now, given the results that he's had, everybody's on board. Not just within the dressing room, but he spoke about the city and everything that's happening there and clearly a connection with the city.

10:03As a fan base, you can't believe what's been happening. And it's an incredible. The other thing that kind of struck me is how soft-spoken he is, yet somehow managed to say all the right things every single time. It ticks so many boxes. Listen, we're four games in. We may be getting ahead of ourselves, but it's as good a start as he could have hoped for. Yeah, to see such a level-headed coach in such a critical situation as Real Sociedad found themselves in before Matarazzo came in. And they're kind of still there, right? Still a lot of work to do. But Casey, speaking of doing the work, Matarazzo is doing it so far with Real Sociedad.

10:45We talked about his history at the Bundesliga level. Is he one of the more underrated American coaches, you think? Oh, yeah, 100%. No question about it. And, you know, I think what he did in the Bundesliga kind of surprised me that he didn't maybe get another opportunity at a bigger club in Germany. But, you know, and this kind of came out of left field for me. I didn't expect, you know, Materato to be in Spain. But, you know, the one thing, and Schock alluded to it, the one thing I really liked because when I called that first game against Atletico, you were like, okay, we know kind of how he likes his team to set up.

11:25Aggressive, high press. And you thought, okay, someone like Ollazabal, who isn't necessarily the youngest player, I don't know at this stage of career he's going to lead the line pressing high and things like this. So what I really loved hearing from Pellegrino was basically, we need to figure out how we play. We need to figure out how the opponent plays. I need to know what strengths and weaknesses my players have and set them up against the strengths and weaknesses of the opponent. How many times have we talked about a manager that is so stubborn of I'm playing this way, regardless if my players can play it or the team I'm playing against wants us to play exactly like that.

12:11So I love what he was saying about just making sure that they do what they need to do to get results. Yeah, absolutely. Do you agree that he's maybe one of the more underrated coaches? Yes, I think without question. And absolutely. Floating under the radar, as Casey said, with his time in Germany, again, not blowing the park out of the water, kind of giving the Champions League runs, etc. but has put together an incredible body of work that he can lean on. This result, early in Spain I know, just kind of elevates a lot of what he has done before, his style, dare I say his philosophy. Again, we're all getting too far ahead of ourselves.

12:54We're only four games in. But you get a result with a team like Sociedad against a team like Barcelona. That makes everybody sit up on notice. Yeah, and we know, obviously, the ask, the only ask, and I put that in quotation marks, is to avoid relegation case. But what would be a successful season for Matarazzo and with what he has right now in the locker room for Sociedad? Yeah, I mean, where he took over to now, it's a situation of, can you get to the end of the season in a comfortable mid-table position and not be looking over your shoulder? Which would, when he took over, I'm pretty sure they were just saying, just keep us up.

13:43And if it's by one point or ten, we don't care. So this is where it gets maybe a little tricky, is you've got off to such a great start. So now the expectation is even greater. But like Shaka said over and over again, it's four games. Some things have really worked out. Don't get ahead of yourself. There's a reason why they were down near the bottom of the table. But he's pulled the right lever so far. Yeah, they're not sounding any sort of bell, right? But, again, to Casey's point, given where they were in the start over, you've kind of put some distance between yourselves and that bottom three.

14:24You're sitting comfortably in ninth table. Then you look up at Betis in, what, fifth or sixth in that Europa Conference League place as eight points to make up to get into Europe in any measure. Listen, right now, I guess you beat Barcelona, you can dream. But eight points is a lot to make up. Eight points is a lot to make up. If you can even threaten that, I think this is. Staying up is a success. Yes. Not being in a relegation dogfight in May, having you play your football in May in some comfort. That's a success. Dare you dream of getting into even the Europa Conference League? Right now, I guess you can.

15:06But I think eight points is just a little bit too much to make up. But you can dream. Yeah. Data dream. Data dream. Sociedad. On a day like today, that's actually the perfect message. But we want to remind you about the La Liga schedule coming up this week. And, of course, all matches available on ESPN+. And we want to highlight what's coming up. Atletico de Madrid facing Mallorca. We want to specifically highlight Mallorca with our special show coming up on Thursday. We will tell you a little bit more about that. Before, we're going to listen to Steve Kerr. Yes, Golden State head coach Steve Kerr.

15:44Compare a little bit of basketball with Real Sociedad's tactics? Is there a tactical and or technical crossover? Can you watch a football match, for example, and see things that you think I could apply to basketball and vice versa? The one thing that I see very clearly is three-man groups. You know, that's the main similarity. I read about the games after the fact, and I'll read about formations. I have a hard time recognizing the formation while I'm watching, but what I recognize is the play in triangles, small triangles of three guys. One guy passes to the other. The other guy's cutting, making a run exactly the same as basketball.

16:30That's because you learned the Phil Jackson triangle. That's right. That's right. That's the similarity to me. But I can't claim to be, you know, an expert on the game. But I really enjoy watching. We love when a good crossover happens. Steve Kerr knows it clearly. Want to remind you what's coming up on Thursday, our Football America Special Mallorca, the American Decade, 8.30 p.m. Eastern on ESPN+.

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18:27It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit VivGartMyWay.com. That's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T MyWay.com. And talk to your doctor about VivGart Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenix. All right, one of the looming questions for today is what's going on with Josh Sargent? because at least Norwich City didn't miss him in their 5-1 victory against Walsall in the third round of the FA Cup. Sargent has been training with the club's under-21 after refusing to take part in the FA Cup match. His decision stemming from an$18 million bid from Toronto FC that they submitted to sign Sargent.

19:11So it's an interesting development. But again, at least they didn't miss him for this game. And it's interesting to make this move, especially so close to the World Cup. We expect to see more production from Josh Sargent. But Case, when you saw this news, what was your immediate reaction? Well, we talked about it the other day on Football Americas, and we were extremely critical of Josh and his representation in electing to go this route. And I actually said, I think in the broadcast that I said, I see a situation if Norwich are going to get a little bit, I don't know, maybe just circle the wagons a little bit.

19:54I said, I see a scenario where Sargent's training with the youth team. And I got a good chuckle when I saw that he got kicked off to the youth team. I mean, it's, you're under contract. And I don't care if there's a transfer or not. Shaka, you and I have been in plenty of situations where there was paper talk, there was an offer, there was something, but nothing happens until the club agrees terms. And the fact that you text your manager the day of a match, I'm not in the right headspace because there's speculation and an offer coming from Toronto? I mean, it's insane. And the real question mark for this is how stubborn are Norwich going to be?

20:42Because they hold all the cards. Now, I think every match that Norwich wins in the transfer portal for the winter transfer window, it'll be more likely that they say, okay, we can let them go. But there's also a situation that you have. The Clements had a great response from his team by going, nobody is above the team. And what I read from fans, fans were like, yes, nobody's above the team. Boot him out of the first team. Now, the question mark is when you have 18 million on the line, it's hard to just throw that away and bury a player into the reserves. but I don't understand the direction. Now, I had a teammate years ago who was very specific.

21:44The only way to get what you want is to be a nightmare for the club. Not the way I would want to do things, but I guess his representation had decided that that's the direction Josh Sargent was going to go. and I'll be honest with you Christina I wouldn't be surprised if in a week or two he ends up at Toronto but I also you know be interesting to see what the club does yeah there's a quiet quitting and he seems to be quitting very loudly at least after sending that message to his to his manager Shaq before I let you get into it let's listen to Philippe Clement just what is the latest on Josh Sargent situation?

22:27That Josh is training with the second team. What he did was not acceptable for anybody in the club. He knows and that's the situation now. So I don't think there's much more to say about that now. And to focus on our games, our battle to come out of this relegation zone and to focus on all the players available to get the best out of them and to get good performances. So there is my focus and the focus of everybody in the building. I understand that you've backed out that position, but clearly that is, given the player, given the situation, it feels there will need to be a resolution to that. So in the first instance, he's not available for Wexham and he's not in your thoughts for this matchday squad?

23:14No, but you can have that also when a player is injured. So you can only control the controllable. That's what we are doing. and that's to focus on the group that's available. It's been also in the past when I was here that he was not there with the concussion, for example, and that other people stepped up and did the job and we get good results. So we're focusing on that with all the guys available. Is there any timeline on how long that will continue? No, it depends on him. So focus is on us. It depends what he does to come back into the story or not. We will see. So ball is in his court quite clearly after what we just heard from Clement.

24:06How distracting could this be to the locker room, Shaq? Well, it all depends on Josh Sargent standing within the locker room and how those players adjust. and again results kind of determine so much about how players feel about what any issue or or the other norwich keep winning games and winning games can convincingly um just sergeant becomes a sideshow um that nobody pays a whole lot of attention to i will also say i i fully agree with every single thing casey says um but and the but to this is an aspect of the game that we've seen over, certainly at the very least, over this last year and in particular in the summer transfer window, an aspect of the game that I absolutely hate.

24:52I am fully with Casey on this. But more and more, you're seeing players, through their advisors, taking these kinds of actions. Six months ago, we were talking about Giocarez going on strike to push his move through to Arsenal. We were talking about Alexander Izaak going on strike at Newcastle to push his move through to to to Liverpool Mark Gehi the one who did not cause any kind of a stir Crystal Palace he did not get his move until a few days ago he's going out of contract there's all kind different um well aspects to that in that Crystal Palace so let's cash in now but we spent this summer talking about players going on strike to force a move it's an aspect of the game and again it's it's not new to Casey's point it's not new but all of a sudden it has become a preferred tactic and I absolutely hate it.

25:42I'm sure Casey feels exactly the same. I absolutely hate it. And now you see Josh Sargent doing exactly the same. Different level, I know, given the clubs involved, but this is, I cannot help but feel this is agent's work and agent's advice at play. Now, again, to Casey's point,$18 million, you don't kind of turn that... Possibly 20 with bonuses, by the way. Whichever way. We're not talking about a Premier League club. Norwich are a championship club struggling. That's a lot of money in relation to where they are. So they can play hardball, but ultimately, financially, I think they have to allow him to make this move.

26:31But then, while I totally sympathize, and I feel for Norwich in this instance, in having to accept that move, that then gives free license to everybody who is subject to another bid to do exactly the same. And we're just going to be having this conversation because, again, for whatever reason, and I put this more on the agents and the players themselves, this seems to be the go-to, the first plan-y. This is plan-y in terms of getting a move out of a club. Case, final thoughts on this? Yep, exactly. You know, Schock followed it up very nicely. It is. And the problem is, is if the club caves, it once again tells every player and every agent, if this is how you want to get your way, this is how you do it.

27:24And so, yeah, tricky situation that Jost and his agents have put Norwich into. And 100 % with Schock. completely dislike the way of doing stuff in this manner. Yeah, it's a very interesting tactic because it's not necessarily a positive look on the player, although you understand why he wants to make this move ultimately in Norwich City. It's kind of a help me help you kind of situation. Yeah, they have no, I don't think they have much choice. No. Play hardball, but only for so long. Yeah, exactly. Let's take it to another American player, Ricardo Pepi. In the back, there's actually still some good for him, though, because despite him suffering that broken arm last week with PSV, Fulham is still showing interest in the striker.

28:14Now, Pepi is expected to be sidelined for approximately two months after undergoing surgery for that same broken arm. Fabrizio Romano saying Fulham and more Premier League clubs are also, quote, attentive. Is this the kind of attention that someone like Ricardo Pepi deserves case despite another injury to this unfortunate long list that we've seen from him? Yeah, but I think in this situation, I think with a broken arm, you know, it's not like you're then worrying about, you know, how is he going to come back from this? It's just a broken arm. I mean, he's not a goalkeeper. I mean, it's like, it's like, okay, it'll, it'll heal and he can still stay fit.