Garcia Fills Mbappe's Shoes Again

14 Feb 2026 · 49 min · 20 chapters

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In short

Podcast Notes: ESPN FC - Garcia Fills Mbappe's Shoes Again

Episode Summary In this episode, the ESPN FC crew discusses Real Madrid's impressive 4-1 victory over Real Sociedad, highlighting Gonzalo Garcia's standout performance in the absence of Kylian Mbappe. The team also reviews FA Cup results for Liverpool, Manchester City, and Newcastle, while raising concerns about the officiating and VAR's absence in this round.

Key Highlights

Real Madrid vs. Real Sociedad

  • Match Result: Real Madrid won 4-1.
  • Goals Scored:
  • Gonzalo Garcia opened the scoring.
  • Federico Valverde and two penalties converted by Vinicius Junior followed.
  • Context: Real Madrid's win puts them at the top of La Liga.

Gonzalo Garcia's Performance

  • Role: Played more effectively as a center forward without Mbappe.
  • Comparison:
  • Previous performance against Betis (5-1 win) where Garcia also scored while playing centrally.
  • Effective movement in and around the box, occupying defenders and creating space.
  • Discussion: Garcia's natural position allows for better team dynamics. The crew debated whether he should continue to start or if he would be sidelined once Mbappe returns.

VAR and Officiating Concerns

  • Criticism of Refereeing: Poor officiating noted in multiple FA Cup matches, including a controversial handball decision.
  • VAR Discussion:
  • VAR not utilized effectively in this FA Cup round, with referees making questionable calls.
  • Debate on the necessity and impact of VAR in modern football, especially during contentious matches.

FA Cup Round Results

  • Liverpool: Secured a 3-0 victory over Brighton with notable performances from Curtis Jones, Dominic Sabozlai, and Mohamed Salah.
  • Manchester City: Won 2-0 against Salford City, with Pep Guardiola expressing dissatisfaction with the overall performance despite the win.
  • Newcastle: Defeated Aston Villa 3-1, but faced criticism regarding officiating decisions that affected the game's flow.

Player Focus

Vinicius Junior

  • Performance: Vinicius was highlighted as a key player, returning from suspension and displaying confidence and skill.
  • Comparison with Mbappe: The crew noted a notable difference in Vinicius's performance and happiness when Mbappe is not on the field.

Managerial Decisions

  • Discussion on Álvaro Arbeloa's Choices: The crew deliberated on how Arbeloa could balance maintaining structure with players like Mbappe and Jude Bellingham on the field while also ensuring that Garcia receives sufficient playtime.

Key Takeaways

  • Gonzalo Garcia is more effective as a center forward, enhancing Real Madrid’s performance and team dynamics.
  • VAR's absence in the FA Cup raises questions about officiating standards and the need for video assistance in contentious situations.
  • Vinicius Junior's performance suggests he thrives when not overshadowed by Mbappe, highlighting the complexity of team dynamics with star players.
  • The FA Cup remains a crucial tournament for teams like Liverpool, who are striving for silverware amid a challenging league season.

Conclusion This episode provides insightful commentary on the ongoing dynamics within top football clubs, the importance of player positioning, and the critical discussions surrounding officiating and VAR that continue to impact the sport.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Recap of Real Madrid vs. Real Sociedad

0:45 to 2:10

A detailed discussion on Real Madrid's performance against Real Sociedad.

“But the win would go the way of the home side.”

Gonzalo Garcia's Role and Performance

2:10 to 4:25

Exploration of Gonzalo Garcia's impact in the absence of Mbappe.

“that he's been working with quite a few times.”

Tactical Analysis of Real Madrid's Formation

4:25 to 6:06

Analyzing Real Madrid's tactics and structure with and without Mbappe.

“They look a far more solid team defensively when Gonzalo Garcia is playing through the middle as a striker.”

Vinicius Jr.'s Impact on the Team

6:06 to 7:57

Discussion on Vinicius Jr.'s performance and its correlation with Mbappe's absence.

“But he's not getting there any time soon if he stays at Real Madrid, because he's not playing.”

Future Implications for Gonzalo Garcia

7:57 to 12:18

Speculation on Gonzalo Garcia's future at Real Madrid and his potential development.

“And that's not only a message for Arbeloa, it's a message for his teammates as well.”

Dominic Sabozlai Reflects on Recent Matches

14:02 to 15:44

Dominic discusses Liverpool's recent performances and their goals for the season.

“Before we get word from the boys here, our Mark Ogden was pitch side today and he caught up with Dominic Sabozlai.”

Liverpool's Positive Showing Against Brighton

15:45 to 18:04

Analysts break down Liverpool's dominant performance and key player Milos Kerkes.

“Yeah, Mark Ogden getting schooled by Sir Bosley in the interview.”

FA Cup as a Path to Silverware for Liverpool

18:05 to 19:19

Discussion on the importance of the FA Cup for Liverpool's season.

“When it comes to silverware this season, the FA Cup has got to be a good chance for them right now, Luis Garcia.”

Controversial Decisions in Aston Villa vs Newcastle

19:20 to 21:29

Review of contentious referee decisions during the FA Cup match between Aston Villa and Newcastle.

“We're going to let you go now, Luis, but we're just wondering where you are in the world right now.”

The Role of VAR in Controversial Matches

21:30 to 23:20

Discussion on the effectiveness and necessity of VAR in football after a contentious game.

“And I thought we did that really well in the second half.”
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Players' Reactions to VAR and Referee Decisions

23:21 to 28:00

Analysts discuss players' strategies in response to refereeing and VAR decisions.

“So let's get to the situations in the game.”

FA Cup Results and Manchester City's Performance

28:53 to 29:25

Discussion of the FA Cup match results and Manchester City's gameplay.

“Amazon Hub Delivery is looking for ambitious business owners to assist with local deliveries.”

Pep Guardiola's Reflections Post-Match

29:25 to 33:32

Pep Guardiola shares insights on the match and team performance.

“Here's the rest of the results from Saturday in the FA Cup.”

Analysis of Manchester City vs. Salford City

33:32 to 35:09

Dissecting the dynamics of City's game against Salford and the implications.

“And I'm watching it, and I'm paying attention, and I'm saying to myself, why in the world am I watching this?”

Bayern Munich's Dominance and Harry Kane's Milestone

35:09 to 38:10

A look into Bayern Munich's performance and Harry Kane's 500th goal.

“In the Bundesliga, Bayern Munich find themselves six points clear at the top of the table after an away win over Werder Bremen, a win in which Harry Kane scored his 500th goal for club and country.”

Debate on Liverpool's Use of Young Players

38:10 to 42:05

Discussion about Liverpool's strategy regarding youth players amid pressure.

“but I wasn't surprised when Harry Kane started putting up the numbers in Germany that he has been doing.”

Analyzing Squad Depth: Arsenal vs. Manchester City

42:05 to 43:20

The discussion revolves around the squad depth of Arsenal compared to Manchester City, emphasizing Arsenal's superiority.

“I'm merely saying that because if there was somebody who could solve a problem for you at least in the short term and you were impressed by this player that player would have gotten minutes.”

Referee Performance and VAR Controversies

43:21 to 44:48

A critical evaluation of refereeing decisions, VAR impact, and communication in football.

“Shocking refereeing on Villa Newcastle I don't think that it's coming back from VAR the refs are too spoiled do you agree?”

The Importance of the FA Cup for Liverpool

44:49 to 45:58

The segment discusses the implications of Liverpool winning the FA Cup on their season and manager's future.

“It has nothing to do with how we implement the system or not, whether we're using it or not in the FA Cup.”

What We Love About Football

45:59 to 48:09

A heartfelt discussion on the joys and emotional connections players and fans share with football.

“Yes, the goalkeeper that hit it off the crossbar and hit the volley.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Julien Laurens:Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin. Way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue.

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0:17Julien Laurens:Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with Kayak and get your trip right. Kayak. Got that right.

0:32Dan Thomas:Welcome into the latest edition of ESPN FC. Kei Murray, Alejandro Moreno and Stevie Nichol here in the studio kicking things off in La Liga where Real Madrid were at the Bernabeu to take on Real Sociedad, two of the in-form teams in La Liga in 2026. But the win would go the way of the home side. We saw an opening goal from Gonzalo Garcia. No Kylian Mbappe in the starting 11. Valverde struck a great goal as well and we saw two Vinny Junior penalties and this sent Real Madrid top of the table. We're welcoming Luis Garcia to talk more about this game and no Mbappe today, but no problem, Luis.

1:11Julien Laurens:Yeah, definitely. And I thought from the very beginning that seeing the line-up with the players who haven't been sharp in front of goals, who haven't been clinical, I thought they were going to have more problems, but they did an amazing job the first 45 minutes. Even though the stats doesn't show the dominance and control of Real Madrid, that they were with a low block when they needed, very open when they needed. And when they arrived to the box, I think that it should be Aramburu in a couple of occasions. It's been a little bit sloppy with those two penalties. Real Madrid really deserved it.

1:41Julien Laurens:It was in the second half with Real Madrid that got two options to get made into the game, but that penalty for goal of Vinicius Jr. kind of put the game away. Then it became a quite open game, but definitely Real Madrid knew how to control. also Albelloa with an eye on the midweek game in Champs-League where they are going to play against Benfica with rotation, giving minutes to some other players, even bringing young players from the academy to show his support to a team that he's been working with quite a few times. So, overall, a fantastic game for Real Madrid, three points and top of the table.

2:17Dan Thomas:Let's talk about then Gonzalo Garcia because he's in and Mbappe's not and he's playing in a position that he's much more used to and much more effective in LA.

2:25Shaka Hislop:Well, it's a natural position for him, which is as a center forward. That's where he does his best work. And let me just take you back to January, early January, January 7th to be exact, against Betis. Real Madrid against Betis. Betis sort of best of the rest in La Liga. When you look at the table, you're thinking Betis is a team that can maybe be difficult to play against. That game ended 5-1. It was Gonzalo Garcia playing through the middle, no Mbappe. You spin it forward to today. Real Sociedad, who had been hot coming into this match, who had been scoring goals, who had been so good since the turn of the year with Pellegrino Matarazzo.

3:03Shaka Hislop:4-1. You're scoring goals. You're creating opportunities. You're getting movement from the center forward position that is natural movement. That is not away from goal. That it is in and around the 18-yard box. And it's coming from a player who does this naturally, instinctively. When you play him out on the right-hand side because you want to play Mbappe down the middle, you're wasting Gonzalo Garcia. And look, I'm not suggesting that Gonzalo Garcia is an elite striker right now at this point in his career. But I think there's something to be said about the fact that you have a player that will occupy the two center backs because of his movement in and around the 18-yard box.

3:46Shaka Hislop:And that his movement alone creates spaces for others. the holder play, and just as important, the pressure on the ball, that he's going to go and chase around things that Kylian Mbappe doesn't do and things that Vinny Jr., he doesn't do either. Real Madrid, and I know the sample size is very small, they're better off when they're playing with a guy who's willing to press the ball down the middle, and then the second line of pressure comes knowing full well that the possession from the other team has already been affected and has already been determined in terms of what side they're going to try to play out of.

4:21Shaka Hislop:That allows then Camavinga to step in, allows Chumene to come and step in. They look a far more solid team defensively when Gonzalo Garcia is playing through the middle as a striker. Now, think about that for a second. Digest that. That they look better defensively when you have a forward playing down the middle who naturally wants to play in that position and who's willing to chase the ball. So they have a point of reference in the attack, and they have a point of reference in terms of starting the pressure. Again, sample size is small, but against Betis and against Real Sociedad, two of the toughest teams in La Liga, 5-1, 4-1.

4:56Dan Thomas:So what do you do? What do you do here, Stevie, if you're the coach? Because they're both very effective. We know all about Mbappe, but Gonzalo Garcia here, we've seen it. That's a small sample size, but the proof is in the pudding. What does Alvaro Abelhoa do in this situation?

5:10Gab Marcotti:I'll tell you what he's going to do. Mbappe, as soon as he can, is on the field. it's just it's a situation that there's no choice you can't leave Mbappe out and you're not going to stick Mbappe in that wide right position and Vinny wants to be on the left I mean unfortunately for Garcia he's just going to have to put up with getting a game whenever Mbappe needs a rest or isn't fit it's really that straightforward

5:38Dan Thomas:Is that what's best for Garcia though to be playing when Mbappe needs a rest or is it fit?

5:43Gab Marcotti:No, the best thing for Garcia... In a position that's better for him. Down the middle, centre forward, where he should be, where he needs to be, playing game in, game out, he will start... Ali's talking about he's not an elite player yet, but from the small sample, the size that we've given, or he's given us, in the last six months, eight months, there's no reason why he can't get there. But he's not getting there any time soon if he stays at Real Madrid, because he's not playing. It's just, it's unfortunately the way it is at Real Madrid that he's going to be sitting on his back seat.

6:17Shaka Hislop:It really isn't a question of Mbappe or Gonzalo Garcia. That's not the point of discussion. It's always going to be Kylian Mbappe. The point to be made is that this team, we think about how dependent they are on the productivity of Kylian Mbappe. And there's no denying that Kylian Mbappe is scoring a bunch of goals for this team. But there's also something to be said about the structure of this team, which is something that we have discussed time and time again, that they lack organization, that they lack structure. They look better structure without Kylian Mbappe on the field. And I would say, I would go as far as to say, without Jude Bellingham on the field.

6:53Shaka Hislop:The challenge for Álvaro Arbeloa, or whoever the manager may be for Real Madrid, is how do you find the same structure that you found today and that you found against Beti earlier on this year with guys like Kylian Mbappe and Jude Bellingham? Because they're going to be on the field. That's a challenge. It's not going to be a challenging decision to tell Gonzalo Garcia, Oh, absolutely not. Sorry, buddy. You've got to come and sit on the bench.

7:16Dan Thomas:But then what's best for him is when he's playing in a position that's better for him. So to Stevie's point, is it that he looks elsewhere or he just keeps staying?

7:23Gab Marcotti:Well, eventually, right now, he's young enough, he's inexperienced enough that right now he's happy to be at Real Madrid. He's happy to be able to get a start. He's happy to be able to come on. But that lasts for a certain period of time. And it differs. It just depends on the mentality of the player. But Vinny ain't going anywhere soon. Mbappe's not going anywhere soon. So Garcia, in order to raise his game, is going to have to start thinking about how long he stays at Real Madrid. He's doing what he needs to be doing.

7:55Shaka Hislop:When he's given opportunities, he's saying, I'm here, you can trust me, I can do the job. And that's not only a message for Arbeloa, it's a message for his teammates as well. that if Kylian is not available or Vinny is not available, I'm still here and I can do the job. And that generates respect, appreciation within the locker room and it generates the same thing with the manager and with the fan base as well. He has done the job that he has been asked to do. I don't think you could ask for more from Gonzalo Garcia.

8:25Dan Thomas:One player that earned the respect of the fans today, Luis, was Vinny. He was back from suspension. He stepped up for his side today and he got man of the match.

8:33Julien Laurens:Yeah, and will be sure. I think he was a threat from the first minute. He got that one of those days. He felt the confidence. It looked sharp. It looked skillful. From the middle one in this occasion with that penalty, again, Arambuda a little bit soft because you know that Vinicius Jr. from that back line is not going to do much danger. But he received that take and got a penalty. He scored the first goal. But every single time that he was on the ball, it was always dangerous. So very well deserved. that we heard a lot of people clapping and supporting Vinicius Jr. So he's turning around today with a fantastic behaviour, not getting involved with the opponent, with the referee, just focus on what he has to do.

9:12Julien Laurens:We always said about Vinicius Jr., if he's focused, if he's just giving what he's got the best with these kind of performances, hopefully we can see the best of Vinicius Jr. consistently every single week in and week out.

9:23Dan Thomas:Well, now comes Benfica, and we know what we saw last time they faced each other. It's a very quick return to facing them again in this Champions League playoff. Can they do the same again? Can they keep up some of this consistency and be more convincing in their display?

9:36Shaka Hislop:I mean, isn't that the question that everybody wants an answer if you're a Real Madrid fan? I watched Vinny Jr. play today, and Stevie and I were having the conversation while watching the match, that is it a coincidence that when Kylian Mbappe is sitting on the bench, Vinny is thriving? I don't think it is a coincidence. I think, and you saw it today in some of the facial expressions from Vini as well. Happy. Happy he's getting the ball. Happy he's running out on Budo. Happy that he's creating opportunities, that he's being taken down for penalty. Happy to get the ball and be the one that takes the penalties as well.

10:17Shaka Hislop:You don't see that. Again, you don't see that when Kylian Mbappe is on the field. There is a different feeling to Vinny's game and to Vinny's personality when Kylian Mbappe is on the field. And it all feels like I'm pointing the finger at Kylian Mbappe. But it's just when you observe the behavior of players and you observe the behavior of the team, you kind of go, whoa. They seem, at least in this game, from this evidence, they seem to be better with that guy over there rather than on the field. Because he's playing better. Because he's playing better. Because there's more structure. Because there's more balance.

10:50Shaka Hislop:And it's a crazy argument to make, and it's one that I'm not ready to make just yet. But if you have any doubts as to what his fitness level is going into this Champions League match against Benfica, then if you're Arbeloa, you have in your back pocket what you saw today from your team. And you have to trust that that would be good enough to get a result against Benfica. You've got to say, if Arbeloa turned around and did what Alonso was doing with Mbappé,

11:20Gab Marcotti:Arbeloa would be out the door as well. So you've got to deal with not only the players in the area, he goes, the guy upstairs, he's really picking the team. He's really picking the team.

11:30Dan Thomas:Final word goes to you, Luis.

11:33Julien Laurens:Not much to say, I think I agree 100 % with the guys. I think that you can see that he's a totally different junior. He feels happy. Today was skillful. It was moving. It was combining. I saw passing the ball so much. It was getting linked with all the players. That's something that when, when we've seen in other places, I feel like when he is on the field with Kylian Mbappe, he needs to pass every single time the ball to Kylian Mbappe because he's the top scorer. So when he's not there, he can be more himself playing, playing around on the left side, doing mistakes because you're always going to do mistakes without feeling the pressure that you haven't passed the ball to Kylian Mbappe.

12:10Julien Laurens:So all good news for Real Madrid. Definitely all good news for Arbeloa. Having Gonzalo Garcia in top form in this kind of moment is also good, even though there is not going to be in. But when he is, he's performing well and delivering. So very good news for Arbeloa that no one knew that he was going to have this kind of performance so far.

12:29Dan Thomas:Yes, and Real Madrid will be La Liga leader tonight and tomorrow at least ahead of Barcelona playing their game on Monday against Girona. That puts a bit more pressure on them. And that match will be available on ESPN2 on Monday. Before that, we have a whole slate of action for you, including Ryo against Athleti tomorrow morning.

12:49Julien Laurens:I like things my way, my coffee, my schedule, and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self-injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo Pre-Filled Syringe, which contains F-Gartigamide Alpha and Hyaluronidase QVFC. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit VivGuardMyWay.com. That's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T MyWay.com. And talk to your doctor about VivGuard Hattrulo. Brought to you by Argenics. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy.

13:23Gab Marcotti:But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery. They're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by.

13:54Dan Thomas:Liverpool beat Brighton 3-0 in the fourth round of the FA Cup with goals from Curtis Jones, Dominic Sabozlay, and Mohamed Salah what was a positive showing from Arnaz Lotzman. Before we get word from the boys here, our Mark Ogden was pitch side today and he caught up with Dominic Sabozlai.

14:11Gab Marcotti:Hi Dominic, so since the Man City game you've won two games, two clean sheets. How important was it to bounce back in that fashion?

14:18Julien Laurens:Well, for me only one. But yeah, I'm happy that the guys kept the clean sheet in Sunderland and also that they took the three points home. And yeah, but today was also a massive one, important going into the next round. Fifth round of the FA Cup, so you're kind of beginning to see the path to Wembley now. How important is it to win a major trophy this year with the FA Cup? Every season is important to win a trophy. We can say that in the Premier League we are out of the race, but there are two more campaigns where we can achieve something big and that's our goal. You say you're out of the race in the Premier League, but obviously you've still got a chance to top four, so the season can still have a successful ending in three competitions at the moment.

15:03Julien Laurens:Ah, yeah, that's true, to be honest. But you were asking me about the trophies. To be on the top four, that's necessary, to be honest, for a club like Liverpool. And we're going to do everything that is possible.

15:16Gab Marcotti:From your own perspective, that's ten goals in our competitions this season and quite a few decent ones as well. So how do you rate tonight?

15:24Julien Laurens:I try to do my best every game. And if I have a chance to shoot, and finally I take the decisions to shoot and sometimes I hit it good and it goes in. This must be one of your best seasons goal-wise because free kicks, goals all over the place. Yeah, I guess. I just want to keep going. Thanks, Dominic. Cheers.

Read the full transcript

15:43Dan Thomas:Nice stuff there. Yeah, Mark Ogden getting schooled by Sir Bosley in the interview. Luis Garcia still with us. Let me start with you though, Stevie, because for once it feels as though we've got a lot of positives to take away from a Liverpool showing.

15:55Gab Marcotti:Well, it's not very often this year that you can watch Liverpool and not feel stress. And there was no real stress today. You know, a couple of little spells, just a couple of minutes before halftime, we had a couple of opportunities. And then maybe a five-minute spell in the second half where at 1-0, Brighton looked as though they were sort of getting a bit of steam going. But other than those two little periods, Liverpool were dominant, in my opinion. Liverpool were the team on the front foot. They were the team that were creating. They were putting pressure on the opposition. They got the three goals.

16:33Gab Marcotti:They kept a clean sheet. I mean, it's the kind of performance that you, this season, hope to see more often. But it's the kind of performance we've expected from Liverpool all season. So hopefully this is the start of some sort of consistent performance. Because if they can produce what they did today between now and the end of the season, then they will qualify for the Champions League in my opinion.

16:58Dan Thomas:And speaking of producing today, the goods came from Milos Kerkes. It's obviously been a difficult season for him, but today did we see the player that was promised to Liverpool?

17:05Gab Marcotti:Absolutely. Listen, we... Well, I know I have been critical of Kerkes and I think that for the majority of this season so far he's been a problem in the back four. He has not affected Liverpool either in an attacking sense or in a defensive sense. and we've mentioned it on more than one occasion. So I think he's only right that we say today that in terms of what he's been producing, he was fantastic today. He was a terrier defensively. He was in good positions. He got close to people. He won the ball back. And then, of course, going forward, he's almost scored with a cracking volley. He set up Curtis Jones for his goal.

17:45Gab Marcotti:I mean, what we saw from Kerkhez, 100%, is the play that we thought Liverpool were getting and today he showed us what he's capable of. So now, let's hope he's taking a step forward and he can get close to that sort of performance every time he steps on the field. And if he does, not just me, but every Liverpool fan will be more than pleased.

18:07Dan Thomas:Yeah, absolutely. When it comes to silverware this season, the FA Cup has got to be a good chance for them right now, Luis Garcia.

18:15Julien Laurens:Yes, definitely, because it's a massive competition. You know, they all lost the cup there in England. And it's the closest that they are right now to touch the silver. Well, don't forget in Champions League, it's going to be tough. It's going to be difficult. The amount of quality and tough teams that are over there, most of them from the Premier League that you've been struggling to get results, is not going to put you in a good position because you need that consistency. Because today we saw a couple of occasions in the last of the first 45 and also in the beginning of the second one where Brighton had the opportunity to get back into the score.

18:51Julien Laurens:And those opportunities, probably when you play later on in the Champions League against top teams, those are going to be capitalized and you're going to be punished. So I think the fake-up is a real thing for Liverpool this season. And what we had also, the manager, talking about they're going to be focused on doing that. They have to play every single game as a final. They have to try and win every single game. but definitely having the option of winning an FA Cup and bringing it to the stands again, I think is a real option right now.

19:21Dan Thomas:We're going to let you go now, Luis, but we're just wondering where you are in the world right now.

19:27Julien Laurens:I'm in Malaysia. I came at 6.20 in the morning and looking forward to my team, JT, to play on Tuesday in the Champions League. Thank you.

19:36Dan Thomas:Good luck to Luis Garcia's team. Gets around, doesn't it?

19:40Shaka Hislop:Decision maker, by the way. Absolutely, of course. Thank you so much for being with us.

19:44Dan Thomas:We'll be hearing a lot more from Luis Garcia right here on ESPN FC, which you can catch every single day right here on ESPN+. Aston Villa took on Newcastle. Newcastle won the game 3-1 in the FA Cup, but there were some contentious decisions. Tammy Abraham brought Villa ahead in the 14th minute, but in the 41st minute, Luca Dinier went in for a challenge and a yellow card was given. Many wondered if it should have been a red. the challenge reckless. We did see a red card though soon after that as Biso got sent off for a last man foul. So Villa down from their keeper, down to 10 men. 61st minute, Dinier not called by the referee on a handball which was deemed to be just outside the box.

20:28Dan Thomas:However, it did appear to be inside the box, nothing given. After a referee in decision, a free kick was given to Newcastle. Trippier crossed it in, it wasn't cleared and Sandro Tonali scored to make it 1-1. 75th minute, Newcastle on the attack, Tenali shot from long distance to make it two and in the 88th minute Nick Valtamade would round things off with a 3-1 win. Eddie Howe was incensed after the game. Could you believe some of the decisions that you were seeing out there?

20:56Julien Laurens:No, it felt like it was one of those games where every decision that was sort of being made, any contentious decision was going against us and I know that's of course it's not intentional from the officials, it was just one of those things you have to accept. I thought our players did really well to control their emotions and not get into further trouble and not get a red card for something. But it did feel strange. I mean, the penalty for handball that I think I could see that one from where I was. It just felt like, is it one of those days where it's not going to happen? And that's where the players did really well, especially 11 v 10.

21:27Julien Laurens:It's not as easy as people would make out to break down a stubborn defensive unit. And I thought we did that really well in the second half.

21:33Dan Thomas:So before we get into the specific decisions let's just talk about the fact that this was a great commercial for VAR wasn't it?

21:40Gab Marcotti:Oh big time You know anybody who anybody who says VAR is wasting the game you watch this game in particular and the City game earlier on I mean the lucky thing for both sides is the decisions the referees made in both of these games didn't affect the outcome but before VAR, how many games have we watched where 100 % referees, bad decisions, wrong decisions have caused teams to lose trophies, lose games, lose points and it just tells you how important VAR is now yes, we all would agree that VAR can be dealt with better certainly quicker But having watched this game in particular, boy, did weep.

22:33Gab Marcotti:We were praying that VAR was in use because the decisions were so poor. Do you really want to get rid of VAR and go through this? You know, people say that we talk too much about VAR and we criticise the decisions. I would far rather we criticise decisions that are missed from referees having been able to look at it three or four times because then we can try and put it right. Whereas if there's no VAR, we're left. We're left in no man's land. Because all you can say is, well, the game's played at such a pace, it's really difficult for the officials. I mean, that's the line that used to get trotted out week in and week out.

23:18Gab Marcotti:So, yeah, 100%. This game in particular was a great advertisement for VAR.

23:24Dan Thomas:So let's get to the situations in the game. We'll go chronologically. That annoyed you guys the most. And we'll start in the first half. It was that reckless challenge, Stevie, from Lucas Dini that just warranted a yellow from the referee.

23:36Gab Marcotti:And initially I agreed with the referee because the game is fast. And the referee is, what, 30, 40 yards away from this? So that... If you're going to send somebody off, you really need to be clear on what you saw. And at that pace, at 40 yards away, you don't see that as a referee we see it because we get an opportunity to get the replay and had VAR been in action here I'm 100 % sure even a poor VAR operator would have given a red card because he caught him right in his shin and then he went down onto his foot I mean, having to be able to see it twice it's clear at game speed that's a tough decision for a ref 40 yards away

24:19Dan Thomas:same man involved in the second half a penalty that wasn't.

24:23Shaka Hislop:And it's flagrant, it's egregious. And this, let me just tell you, with VAR, without VAR, with just any referee, this is not even close. This is not borderline. This is not, hey, Lucas Dine is barely on the line. No, he's well inside his own 18-yard box. So regardless as of whether we're using VAR or not, this is a call that the referee should be able to make. It's an egregious, flagrant mistake, and you can't help but feel cheated if you're a Newcastle player in that specific sequence. See, players, I think, are willing and able to deal with certain decisions if they're borderline. This was not borderline.

25:09Shaka Hislop:This is clearly a penalty. If you're going to call the handball, it's clearly inside the 18-yard box. Should it have been a penalty kick was not given. And the best thing that could have happened for this game and for Newcastle players is that they scored right off of this free kick. And it allowed them to sort of put that aside. We don't have to think about what could have been a penalty kick and we can focus on playing the game and going on to win this match, which eventually they did. But as a player, in that moment, you have to show so much discipline that you just don't go and remind the referee of all his family while he's making or not making the call that he should.

25:45Gab Marcotti:While you were talking, I was thinking about being a coach sitting on the sideline. And the first thing I would have done would have been the fourth official and the linesman. Because they're all mic'd up. Because you've got to go, hold on a second. One guy can make a mistake. But there's four of you. There's four of you actually in charge of this game. You're telling me you can't get in his ear and tell him it was in the box. Oh, what's the linesman doing? Linesman put his flag up. Why does no linesman put his flag up and then get the referee's attention? The old-fashioned way. Referee running over the linesman, little conflab in the box, penalty.

26:21Gab Marcotti:I mean, that's what I was thinking when I was a coach.

26:23Dan Thomas:Just quickly, do you think players will try to get away with a little bit more, knowing there is no VAR in those games, or do they not think of that?

26:30Shaka Hislop:I mean, I would. Let me tell you, I'd be going down all over the place. Without any problem. More than you did. I mean, if I don't have the possibility of punishment and I can play on the fringes and push the fringes of legality, I'll do it. I have no issue admitting to that. And I think every player would and should for that matter, that you push it as far as you possibly can. And if the referee, once the referee makes a bad call and he kind of has that feeling that he has made a bad call, now it's only human nature. and they'll deny this. But it's human nature that, well, we've got to make it even.

27:09Shaka Hislop:And that's when you go and try to exploit it and you try to draw a foul, you try to draw some sort of contact inside the 18-yard box and put the referee in a position where, hey, buddy, you're going to make a call for us now? You're going to even things up? This is the way I would approach it. Now, he definitely would.

27:26Gab Marcotti:But in all honesty, there are not many players, certainly the Premier League players, because they've programmed that there is VAR. There are thousands of cameras. There are occasions... There isn't an occasion where you can get on the blind side of the camera or whatever, because everything you do is... So they're used to that. So there's always the exception to the rule. But in general, players will do what they normally do, 100%.

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29:25Dan Thomas:Here's the rest of the results from Saturday in the FA Cup. Manchester City beat Salford City 2-0, a performance which Pep Guardiola himself called boring.

29:35Julien Laurens:Pep, congratulations on your progress in the FA Cup, but how much credit do you give to Salford for making things very difficult for you today? Yeah, a lot. It's been really well, so tight. And, yeah, difficult, and we didn't read where are the spacers, the way you shoot attack. And that's why the game was flat. It wasn't good except when we scored the second goal. After we increased our spaces where we should do it, our wingers and our attacking midfielders, until the 2-0, the game was not good. How frustrated were you at half-time that it was only 1-0 and you had what looked a decent second goal ruled out for offside?

30:16Julien Laurens:No, it's not frustrating for 1-0. You can go 1-0, but it's magnificent. Sometimes you win 3-0 and the game is not good. So we try to let them feel what we should do in that. It's just we do it after the 2-0. They put a lot of pressure on you in the second half. How relieved were you when Mark Gay, one of your substitutes, not necessarily sent on to score, but he got that crucial second goal for you? Yeah, of course it's better for that. It had been a really, really tough three weeks with emotionally a lot of games and demanding. and today was the last game that we need a little, little middle break, you know, with three days and a half.

31:00Julien Laurens:And the problem we didn't read were the spaces when they are so tight, so narrowly we had to put more balls to the sides and we didn't do that. How relieved were you to have Mark available today, changing the rules this season, which enabled him to play for Crystal Palace in the FA Cup in the third round and for you in the fourth round, a bit of a curiosity that he's been able to do that. Sorry? So the rules have changed this season in the FA Cup, haven't they? He would have been cup-tied previously, having played for Crystal Palace in the third round, and this year he was available. It was very important to you that he was available.

31:33Julien Laurens:Yeah, of course he was, of course, but, for example, cannot play in the final FA Carabao Cup. So, yeah, why can't play here, and why cannot play the other ones? You know that? But I'm pretty sure there are some rules that are big as argument the reason why it happened. Common sense is not. But it's OK.

31:59Dan Thomas:Lovely to hear from Pep. All the best players, great players, players of high skill and still Pep can find what they put on. Not the best and not always dazzling, Stevie.

32:13Gab Marcotti:Not dazzling is a bit of an understatement, isn't it?

32:16Dan Thomas:I could have said boring, but I was being polite.

32:19Gab Marcotti:Yeah, it was a little dreary. The fact that City scored so early didn't really help because then they don't have to... They don't have to have as much urgency in their game when they're 1-0 up. I mean, at halftime, Salford had 7 % possession. So you don't really have to get too much of a sweat on to kill the game off because you pretty much know the opposition's not really going to have much hope coming up against particularly in any sort of ferocious way so it was too easy for City Salford really didn't want to lose too much so I guess that was the reason why

33:01Dan Thomas:they didn't dazzle

33:02Gab Marcotti:you don't have to

33:04Shaka Hislop:be polite, okay, because that's pretty much what Pep told us in his first answer that's why the game was boring. Boring. It was. And again, it's not the responsibility to entertain us, but man, this game, when you consider everything that goes into it, that is South for City, that is the FA Cup, on its own, it was always going to be difficult to sell, at least me, to watch this game. But it's part of my job to watch it. And I'm watching it, and I'm paying attention, and I'm saying to myself, why in the world am I watching this? Manchester City were disinterested. Uninterested. They didn't want to be there.

33:42Shaka Hislop:South for City, they're excited to be there, but they just don't have the quality to really trouble Manchester City. And so it became this game of glorified possession, and eventually we're going to do something that is just enough to score a second goal, and then the game is over because they know they have no chance, and we know they have no chance, and it was boring. So Pep is correct in his assessment.

34:05Gab Marcotti:And we shouldn't underestimate the fact that Pep at halftime would be saying that to his players. Look, this is our third game in seven days. Whatever it is, we're ahead. Just make sure we keep the ball. Keep them running around. Take the sting out of their legs. You know, we'll play our football. We'll get another goal and we'll be OK. So he's pushing it to the players already that just calm down. Keep the ball. You know, we don't need any antics or anything. So no wonder we look at a game that was void of real desire from either side. Yeah.

34:41Dan Thomas:Boring. Hope for more excitement in what remains in the FA Cup. We've got plenty of it for you. I tell you what, it's not boring getting up at whatever time we need to get up at. For Birmingham against Leeds tomorrow, that's myself, Stevie, and Kieran Gibbs. All right.

34:55Shaka Hislop:Good luck, guys.

34:57Dan Thomas:Tune in bright and early to see how we manage. Are we got anybody on standby?

35:01Gab Marcotti:Is there anybody on standby?

35:03Dan Thomas:There is not. Arsenal against Wigan also later in the day on Monday. The giant killers of Macclesfield are up against Premier League opposition once again. this time it's Brentford.

35:15Dan Thomas:In the Bundesliga, Bayern Munich find themselves six points clear at the top of the table after an away win over Werder Bremen, a win in which Harry Kane scored his 500th goal for club and country. We were talking about a title race not long ago after Bayern had dropped points in back to back games and Borussia Dortmund had been winning all of their games, but it's back to six points. Are Bayern over that hump now, Ali?

35:39Shaka Hislop:I believe they are. and today in particular and specifically in the first half, the energy with which Bayern Munich played against a team in Werder Bremen that you felt they were always going to win and they were always going to beat and they were always going to be better than Werder Bremen. But they brought an attitude about them, Bayern Munich did in the first half, that was very clear to see. The amount of effort put forth by this team to regain possession of the ball, even though they weren't as sharp or as effective or efficient as they could have been going forward. Whenever they turn the ball over, you see Harry Kane and his running and his sprinting.

36:14Shaka Hislop:We were having the discussion earlier as to the comparison between, say, Kylian Mbappe and Gonzalo Garcia and how they press the ball. You don't have to make these comparisons here with Bayern Munich because everybody goes and chases the ball. Leonard Karl, the young guy, running and chasing the ball. You expect that. Harry Kane, the old guy, running and chasing the ball. You have, as a team, a mentality of when we lose it, we're going to get it right back. And that's how they keep themselves from getting in a back and forth with other teams because they force teams into mistakes as they did for the second goal.

36:45Shaka Hislop:Falls to Harry Kane, he benefits from it. He continues to score goals. It was a very comfortable performance for Bayern Munich. A couple of moments here and there for Werder Bremen, but for the most part, it was all Bayern Munich all the time.

36:57Dan Thomas:As for Harry Kane, he hit 500 goals for club and country, which isn't bad for a one-season wonder, is it?

37:03Gab Marcotti:Well, I'm not surprised at that. What I'm surprised at with Harry Kane is that he's a romantic. That surprised me.

37:13Dan Thomas:Would the I Kane stop thinking about you?

37:16Gab Marcotti:Harry's got 500 goals. Well, we'll know that because that's what he does. That's what Harry Kane's about.

37:20Dan Thomas:Passion for the game. Passion for the game.

37:22Gab Marcotti:But for romance, that surprised me big time.

37:25Dan Thomas:It is hard though. Remember back in that season for Spurs when people were saying it's just going to be a one-hit wonder from Harry Kane. He can't follow this up and look at him now. Again, the people that were saying that, though, are people that don't really know what makes a good striker.

37:44Gab Marcotti:You know, everybody throws the old, well, he's never won a trophy and all that sort of garbage. And then people hear it once or twice and then everybody jumps on the bandwagon. The same with the old, well, how's he going to do at Bayern? People were just jumping on the bandwagon. Anybody that knows anything about football and a proper centre forward knows that Harry Kane, regardless of what country he's in, if he's playing in a half-decent team, he's going to score goals. So, listen, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm some sort of expert, but I wasn't surprised when Harry Kane started putting up the numbers in Germany that he has been doing.

38:21Shaka Hislop:You do know, and I'm not sure, I don't know for certain as to whether Harry Kane is a romantic or not, but this is a card that was given to him. He didn't make that card. Somebody wrote that card to him. Really? Yeah, I think so.

38:38Dan Thomas:Okay, but we don't know.

38:40Shaka Hislop:You think he wrote in the card?

38:41Gab Marcotti:I can't stop thinking about you.

38:44Dan Thomas:If you could give that to his wife, it would work, right?

38:46Gab Marcotti:I would know what Thomas Frank felt like last week. You thought he wrote the card to himself? I can't stop thinking about you. I need to take Thomas Frank for a pint.

38:56Dan Thomas:We need to give you a Manchester United glass to have that pint from.

38:59Shaka Hislop:He's got hearts written for him that say, you're mine.

39:03Dan Thomas:We know which Valentine's card we're giving Stevie next year. A little image of Harry Kane saying, I can't stop thinking about you.

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40:11Dan Thomas:Stick around, Extra Time's on the way next. Thanks for being with us on ESPN FC.

40:19Dan Thomas:Welcome into the latest edition of Extra Time. Just Ale and Stevie today to answer your questions.

40:25Gab Marcotti:You all right? No sign of Chaka. Yeah.

40:30Dan Thomas:We were hoping he'd send in his carnival videos. Oh, right, OK, hell yeah.

40:34Gab Marcotti:No, Chaka's known Brazil.

40:36Dan Thomas:No, of course not, but it's carnival time, isn't it? You got it.

40:39Shaka Hislop:I understood, but if you know Shaka, nobody disappears quite with Shaka. Oh, yeah. When he goes on stealth mode, you're not finding Shaka.

40:50Dan Thomas:Yeah, me and producer Mike had a little chat about how we don't have any footage at his respective carnival. He's got that invisible cape.

40:57Gab Marcotti:He just wraps it. The cloak.

41:00Dan Thomas:Stevie, would you like to see Slott use the youngsters more? It feels like he has no interest in using the academy. me?

41:14Gab Marcotti:I think right now and certainly for the majority of this season he's been in a position where he's had to win games and when you're in a position where you're under a bit of pressure you're less likely to give younger players a chance and give them an opportunity. So I'm really not surprised. I think we'd all like to see younger players, regardless of what club you support, getting a chance on the field. But when you're under pressure and you need results, you, unless you've no choice, you're not taking the chance and playing a young guy.

41:53Shaka Hislop:Now, I, obviously it's not like I have been to the Liverpool Academy to go and scout all these players, but I also have to imagine that if he has taken a look, he hasn't been all that impressed. I'm merely saying that because if there was somebody who could solve a problem for you at least in the short term and you were impressed by this player that player would have gotten minutes. That player would have had an opportunity because if there was ever a year to get opportunities for Liverpool this is it given all the injuries. So there must be some part of Arnest Law that has gone taking a look and say they're not quite ready just yet and I'm certainly not gonna put my job on the line if I don't think those kids are ready to do the job.

42:33Dan Thomas:That's fair enough. With all players fit, deeper squad, City or Arsenal? Deeper squad.

42:39Shaka Hislop:I don't, I think for me it's obviously Arsenal. I don't think this is even a question. It's Arsenal all the way, all the time.

42:52Gab Marcotti:Yeah, they've got at least two for every position and sometimes three. Two and

42:59Shaka Hislop:not just two, but two at a very high level. which I think Manchester City could make that argument but you start dropping off and you don't even have one right back you don't even have one left back that you could actually trust, I ignore it, maybe maybe, but not really so yeah, when it comes to the squad depth, there is no question Arsenal has more

43:21Dan Thomas:Shocking refereeing on Villa Newcastle I don't think that it's coming back from VAR the refs are too spoiled do you agree? Yeah, I don't think VAR will disappear.

43:32Gab Marcotti:No, no. I think it's probably the wrong choice of word that the refs are spoiled. I think that you can't blame referees who get used to being able to step back from making a crucial decision because they don't have to. So I think it's tough for refs. You know, we're talking about having Novar today. As much as we're criticising, particularly the linesmen, but the referees are in a tough position. And so, yeah, spoils the wrong word. They're used to refereeing a certain way, and when there's no VAR and you're used to it, it completely changes how you go about your job. So I would lay off the referees.

44:19Gab Marcotti:Other than that one decision, that's not acceptable. But in general, referees are used to, and linesmen I guess, are used to refereeing and linesmen in a certain way. So, yeah, wrong choice of world.

44:33Shaka Hislop:That decision of the handball against Lucas Digne that was clearly inside the box and the referee called it outside the box, that's VAR independent. Our evaluations and analysis of the performance on the referee in that particular play has nothing to do with VAR. It has nothing to do with how we implement the system or not, whether we're using it or not in the FA Cup. No, no. Regardless of whether VAR ever existed, that's a call that the referee should always get correct by himself without any sort of help. That call, specifically that call, was unacceptable.

45:11Dan Thomas:Who needs the FA Cup more this season? Man City or Liverpool?

45:17Gab Marcotti:Liverpool. Liverpool, huh? Well you should know. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean... If Liverpool don't get in the Champions League, winning the FA Cup could save Arna Slaught's job.

45:36Gab Marcotti:That's so important to us. No, I don't believe that if they don't get into the Champions League...

45:43Dan Thomas:Would it still save his job? Or it can, is what you were saying.

45:47Gab Marcotti:Personally, I wouldn't. I would give them the start of the season to go again. But we don't know what they're thinking upstairs. So winning the FA Cup would 100 % make it a lot easier for them to turn around and say, yeah, on you go next season.

46:04Shaka Hislop:While we pay a lot of attention to the questions that are sent in, let me just tell you, the Twitter handle here, Raul from West Bengal, it's a shout out to Raul from West Bengal and the goal that he scored that was king of the pitch for a long time. Oh, the goalkeeper? Yes, the goalkeeper that hit it off the crossbar and hit the volley. And add justice for King Raul, that's funny. You obviously watch the show.

46:31Dan Thomas:Yeah, we had a funny little handle yesterday, didn't we? Dan Shulis. Shulis. Yes. See, it tickled him as well.

46:39Gab Marcotti:I'll tell you what, Dan would have loved the 70s with platforms, wouldn't he? I used that opinion when you go to school. But that's nice.

46:47Dan Thomas:For all of you, including Kay, in the spirit of Valentine's Day, what do you love about the sport? Football. What do you love about it?

46:57Gab Marcotti:Scoring a goal. You can't be scoring a goal. I mean, that's why we play it. Has to be putting a bone in it.

47:11Shaka Hislop:Yeah, well, it's been our lives. Everything that we have done, even post-playing career, has been around the game of football. And there are certain things that I believe Stevie would agree with me that we miss as players. The locker room, the environment in the locker room, the feeling of anticipation when you're about to go on the field, when you're lined up and you hear the stadium but you're not quite out on the field just yet. a good small-sided game in training, a competitive small-sided game in training. But to Stevie's point, there is no better feeling in the game when you have hit a shot that you know is about to go into the back of the net, that goes past the goalkeeper, and the moment you've touched that ball, you know it's going in.

48:00Shaka Hislop:That fraction of a second between you making contact and the ball going into the back of the net and the certainty that you have that is going to go in because you know as a player you see it, you see it developing, it goes past the goalkeeper and it's about to hit the back of the net. That feeling is, I think, what Simi's talking about. That is the release of emotion that we all play for and that feeling that we all play for.

48:22Dan Thomas:Yeah. You guys played. We just watched as me and more souls. In the game, I love it. When someone hits the ball so hard, both feet come off the ground. Always a winner. Love that. Secondly, though, when it just brings everybody together, and you guys will find this too, wherever you go in the world, you can ask anybody who their team is, if they like football, and you've instantly got a conversation with anybody. Here's another one. That's what I love.

48:45Shaka Hislop:When you've won the title, right, and everybody's now getting together, and you're on the stage, and now you've got the trophy, and you're about to lift that trophy, that right there, that moment of here, and we're going to about to lift this trophy, there's no money in the world that can buy that. That is a tremendous feeling.

49:06Dan Thomas:we stopped the music for this segment it was so special you guys made it dramatic and beautiful we love football, we love your questions too thanks for sending them in, we'll be back tomorrow to do the same all over again right here on Extra Time on ESPN FC on ESPN Plus what, where?

49:36Did you take how I got shot?

49:38Shaka Hislop:Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami.

49:41Julien Laurens:Gunned down. The key to this case, it's Brian. Boy, he's ripped him. An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing what's about. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction. We had a killer amongst us.

49:57Shaka Hislop:Murder at the U.

49:58Julien Laurens:Listen now.

From the publisher

The FC crew react to Real Madrid's 4-1 win over Real Sociedad and explain why Gonzalo Garcia plays much better without Kylian Mbappe on the field. Plus, the guys react to FA Cup victories for Liverpool, Manchester City & Newcastle while criticizing why VAR was not used during this round of the competition after a poor day of officiating.
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