Gavi Defends Argentina

24:47They went and tried to get a second. England's mentality and Tuchel's mentality was to sit back and they invited pressure on. The question I've never heard anybody ask in Tuchel. It's one thing when you're on the field and you go a goal up in a big game and the tendency is to try and hold on to it. Now, we can talk about the captain Harry Kane should have done something about that The other experienced players should have done something about it But they didn't But what I would love to know is What was going through Tuchel's head? Because every single time the camera went to the bench Tuchel was sat on his backside Talking to his mates, sat next to him I mean, Craig's talking about, you know We're all sitting and shouting at the TV Why was Tuchel not on the sidelines screaming at them to get up?

25:39like everybody else. It makes absolutely no sense. And I've never heard anybody asking Tuchel the question because I'd love to know what was going through his head. Well, luckily, we do have a Thomas Tuchel whisperer right here in Jan. Jan's probably the only one that's going to defend Thomas Tuchel now, Jan. But what do you make of what the guys are saying? No, well, it's hard not to agree with the boys because we all saw the game. But I think that now that we've got this game a longer ahead, we can see it, not differently, But we can see why this happened. First of all, fact number one is that there's not like England gave anything away to the World Cup.

26:16It was not like if Tuchel made the right decision, they wouldn't have won the World Cup. England were the third, maybe fourth, maybe fifth best team of this World Cup. So that's point number one. And point number two, I think that when we see Tuchel on the bench there, not defending him, because you can stand there, Stevie, and you can search out, out, out. But he's sitting there. I mean, this is top, top sport. He's making the wrong decision. That is what sport is all about. He's doing a completely wrong decision by the changes he's making because these changes are giving his team a bad signal.

26:50Having said that, and if we can discuss that, because everybody can discuss now what we saw, and Ian talked to his missus, and they will agree on it. So everybody will agree on that. But how much to change? I'm not sure that there will be a big change because I don't think England were good enough to do that. I'd have to disagree. I think they were good enough to win the game, be in the final. Listen, the whole football parties in the world agree with us. So we can just sit here and discuss that because we agree because we all saw that. My wife saw this as well and she'd see less football than Ian's wife.

27:29I can promise you that. Everybody saw that. But the thing is that this England team, we are not sure. We can use the phrase they gave it away. I'm not 100 % sure because sometimes, and you guys know that, sometimes when a team is very deep, you are also played deep. You don't have to decide that, oh, this is the best option for us to be very, very deep now. You are played deep by an Argentina team. Yes, it was 65 minutes. Yes, there were 30 minutes to go. but this Argentina team was better in doing that than England had the resistance to do against it. But we can discuss the two to be a green hole for the rest of our life.

28:07They gave Argentina the ascendancy very, very easily. Argentina never pushed them by. Here's what I think Tuchel misjudged, and a lot of managers do these days, I think with the modern-day player. He misjudged the modern-day player, not them all, but most of them need their hand held. So it's a mentality thing, kind of. No, they need somebody to come on and explain the basics. Almost, some of them. It's like they need a manager to tell them to squeeze up. When he was playing, when we were playing, if we knew, I mean, McAllison had already hit the post. Nico Gonzalez had come on and should have scored.

28:46They were peppering the goal at that point. Whilst it rests on Tuchel, sometimes as well it's up to players to say, this is unacceptable Jordan Pickford screaming at them 20 yards further up the field but if it's not happening then Tuchel has to make them do it Craig remember 1998 going to bring up 1998 David Beckham is sent off against Argentina Glenn Hoddle did not take off Michael Owen he did not take off Alan Shearer and they were down to 10 players he kept them on to keep Argentina honest and stop their defenders joining the attack as well and kept them guessing by making them keep switching over between centre forward and the left wing, the two of them.

29:29And that was a brilliant tactic that nearly, probably would have produced a win, have that Saul Campbell goal not been mysteriously disallowed. So I don't know why Tukor did not, I mean, that's what I'm saying, is page one of the coaching manual. There has to be an out ball. And he did have the hydration break. He'd had a look at it. He could have changed it. And then we all, but this is the same, the penalty experts. If the ball go left and the goalkeeper go right, then everybody says it's a good penalty. If it goes to the same corner, everybody says it was a bad penalty. So we all saw that. That's on my point.

30:04And we can, we can criticize Tuchel as much as we want. Yes, but he is a good coach. So he did a big, big mistake. We all there to see, but I will also, let's add it to the next thing. Why didn't Harry Kane do anything? What is Declan Rice doing anything? Why don't the players do anything out on the pitch? And that is why don't I do that, Craig? And yes, we need a good hand. And but listen, in 99 minutes, you see coaches doing their body languages, shouting, and you don't hear a thing anyway. So so the big decisions he made was and I will recommend an interview that Fabregas did with my son, to be fair.

30:44I'm plugging my son's interview for PFA. And he's now now. No, but he's explaining exactly this situation. When you're 1-0 down, you have to do, like Ian was talking about that in 98, you can't do that. But we're sitting here now and discussing a thing. Everybody's already made a big mistake, but what did the players do? Yeah, but that's why you've got a coach. That's why you have a coach. A, to give them some direction, to get the tactics right, and then make them perform. Absolutely. And I don't disagree with you that Thomas Tuchel, If Thomas Tuchel decided to go defensively, then that's fine.

31:21If that's the way you want to go about it. But what you do when you get the hydration break and you don't make it clear that when you're going to defend, you can't defend inside your penalty box. Because what you do then, what you do then, it doesn't matter if you've got 20 bodies in there. It becomes a gamble. But don't you think, Stevie, it's not football anymore, Jan. When there's 18 bodies in the box, it's not football anymore. And that's the point. If you want to go defensive, do that. But you have to be at least 30 yards for your goal. And then that way you stop Argentina. Argentina walked the ball from wherever to the edge of the box, particularly in the wide areas.

32:07And if you are starting 5, 10, 15 yards, depending on what you decide, they can't do that. Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree. But what do you think that Thomas Tuchel said in the hydration break? Did he say, listen, boys, I want you all now to be very, very low. I want you all to stand together on the 18-yard box and then hope for a national lottery that they don't score. Do we think that Thomas Tuchel did that? If that is correct... No, but neither did you tell him to get up the pitch. Don't you think it's... Ian, Ian, when you told your wife, Don't you think Thomas Tuchel is the players? No, no, but let's not be naive.

32:49Of course Thomas Tuchel said to his team, we want you to get out because everybody else... Do you think that Thomas Tuchel... What did he do when they didn't do it? Really? Well, clearly. What did he do when they didn't do it, Jan? He thought he could do the same thing that he did against Mexico. Mexico. He thought he could defend that box for a period of time that was going to get him to the World Cup final and that failed miserably. You know why? because Argentina have got better players than Mexico. Mexico were lobbing balls in the ball. So, Thomas Tuchel didn't know that Argentina had better players than Mexico.

33:20Well, Jan, I don't quite see where you are with this apologetic Thomas Tuchel stand. Thomas Tuchel made a big mistake. You don't get it. Nobody gets it. What's your argument? Shall I say that for the fourth time now? That I think he did the biggest mistake and it's his decisions who made them go like they did. So, you're arguing against yourself. No, no, no, I don't. I argue against the common thing that everybody sits now and says, yeah, he should have said this and he should have said that. Of course he wanted to get the team more out. Of course he knew that Argentina had better players than Mexico.

33:50How do you know that? He didn't do it. Well, why did he not? How do you know that? Why was he not? Why was he not? Screaming at them. Why was he not stood in the side of the pits going, get out? Call that guy. Yeah, we're in. And if he was worried about John Stones, who's a very good player, but if he was worried about John Stones' lack of game time and he was worried about the space in behind and he didn't want to squeeze up because of that, he should have made a change. He should have made a change at the centre-half position and brought on some pressure. And I've said it again, the biggest decisions and the wrong decision was to send players in and that signal that they're going to be deeper.

34:25I 100 % agree on that. But let's not sit here and think that he's the bus driver of England and he doesn't tell the team to get out. He was brought in to be a difference from Gareth Southgate and he made no difference. Let's be honest about it, Jack. Exactly. Let's be honest about it. It's not just... It's not just... You don't get what... Now you don't get where I'm going. So I'm probably not a good argument. I can't argue. No, no, no. I'm going down a different... Because you are rephrasing. Because you say I'm making apologies for him. I say his decisions made them go deep. But let's not sit here and sit at the hydration break.

34:58He didn't do anything. He told them Argentina is as bad as Mexico. So just sit. Well, I don't know what he told them. You don't know what he told them. We don't know. But he obviously... No, you don't know either. We don't know the right thing. I want to just say one thing about Thomas Tuchel. He was brought in to be something different than Gareth Southgate. Apart from the fact we can argue till the cows come home about the last 35 minutes of that game and how much of a debacle it was during the tournament and spare me the third, fourth playoffs. England didn't play well in the tournament. They got results.

35:32They played well against Croatia, maybe match day one. This is another discussion. Yeah, but it's part of the discussion about changing the mindset and the style of play from Gareth Southgate. And if I'm being honest, it did not happen. In terms of Tuchel's job, right? In terms of Tuchel's job, England were in the top four in the world coming into this, right? So getting to the semi-final isn't a shock, a surprise. No. You're not over the moon. I expected that. You're not doing cartwheels down the street. but Thomas Tuchel was brought in not to be in the top four. He was brought in to get in the final and win the tournament.

36:14And so we can argue all day about he should have done this and he didn't do that. But the most important thing is he didn't do the job that he was brought in to do. So how can he not carry the can? He was brought in to make tweaks to the team when the team was in trouble. Yeah, OK. That's how I would freeze that. Yeah, but you can't disagree with you because all football partners in the world agree with you. So it's nothing to do with that. What we tried to discuss now, why did that happen during the game? Because it was the wrong decision. He sent out the wrong signals. That's what I meant by this Fabricas thing.

36:52Yeah, he let it happen through his decisions. That's the consequence and that's sport. After his decision, he let it happen. Yeah, but I don't like this thing that he's just sitting there. He didn't tell them anything. He thought that this is the same as Mexico. So when he saw Messi, he said, you remember that Messi guy? He's exactly like that guy number 10 at Mexico, by the way. He doesn't say that. No, I know. Do you think he got the selection right? Do you think he got the selection right? Think of the number of flair players that were left at home. There was no pass picker in that team. He left Gibbs White at home.

37:25He left Cole Palmer at home, who had had a bad season, but you'd have taken him as a possible X factor. But you know, I don't know. He left Adam Warton. Our producer Pete says that we must stop the conversation here now. Who would have thought that England would have got everyone so fired up when the majority of us here were probably happy that Argentina won that game. Anyways, don't miss Extra Time, where we'll be answering all your questions right here after the show. All of these boys will be back. You know when you're locked in, focused and fearless. Welcome to the WNBA. Your vision narrows.

38:00You can't look away. Every assist, every stop, every logo three. From beyond the logo. Every did you see that moment. You bet. What records are going to be broken this season? All of it right here. Lock in. It's the WNBA on ESPN. All season long.

38:51The good news is, did you even get to talk about it? You can talk about it now. There's a best one, too. Don't worry. Well, that's fine. Mark Ogden picked this one, obviously led by Neymar there in that one. Well, Neymar only played for 20 seconds. He scored a goal. So, who's either one? Overall, he was saying, there it is there. Christian Pulisic is on it. Bruno Fernandes. Florian Veers. Scott McTominay. Mark Ogden. Come on. Valverde. Dikor. Ryle. Van Dyke. Gey. Kimmy. Muslera. Christian Pulisic is on it. Is there enough to pile on from some of these weak Americans? because the guy, they built him up as the greatest thing since sliced bread and he was injured.

39:26And OK, he didn't play very well in the last game. I think it's a bit harsh on O 'Reilly. Neymar shouldn't even have been in the Brazil squad. How's Geahy in this? I thought Geahy and O 'Reilly were in it. Geahy's a bit tough, isn't he? Do you know what I'm having to do for that team? Manuel Neuer. Manuel Neuer. Going back, having said his retirement was set in stone, 40 years old, just never looked at it at all, I didn't think, in the whole tournament. I know Muslera was pretty bad as well, but Neuel, I think that probably rocked the German camp a little bit as well, because Baumann was set to be the number one goalkeeper.

40:06He was turfed out, what, two or three weeks before the tournament. That wasn't, I don't think, a good look or a good feel for Germany going in. We can sum up this team. It's that Julian Nagelsmann is at least the manager of this team. Because you know that. I've been going on like that for seven months. He just pepped Thomas Tuchel. Stevie was saying it should be Thomas Tuchel. He just pepped Thomas Tuchel. Listen, Thomas Tuchel played the best result in England in 1966. By the way, McTominay. But for me, in terms of... Can I just say, Stevie? Sure. Just based on sport and the expectations I had going into the World Cup, I think Bruno Fernandes is the biggest disappointment for me.

40:44And don't come with this thing that it was Ronaldo's fault. Because Ronaldo can have a lot of faults, but Bruno Fernandes can still play a good football game. And I was very disappointed because I follow him very closely, as we all have, at Manchester United. He came from a record-breaking record with assists and so on. But Bruno Fernandes, for me, was maybe one of the most biggest disappointments at this World Cup because I so much hope that he will glance on that pitch in the USA. McTominay shouldn't be in it either McTominay's a guy who you want in the final third that's where he does his business and you're playing in a team that doesn't know how to get to the final third so how can he be in this team I'll tell you who else could have been the manager of this and he's a bit of a myth I think Bielsa yeah good point Let's finish with the negativity, shall we?

41:41And Mark Ogden also did a best 11 of the World Cup. And, Jan, it is led by your boy up front, the big Viking, Erling Haaland, also has the likes of Mbappe, Bellingham. Lionel Messi makes it as well. So, Vozinha, though, that's the big one, in goal as the best goalkeeper there. Forget about it, Tuna, Simon. It is Vozinha that makes Mark Ogden's best 11. So, Jan, what do you think of this one? Not bad. I see he picks a goalkeeper because of his hearts and because he's so good at Instagram, Mark Ogden, that he's so impressed by that. But he was Cap Verde and Vosinha was a fantastic thing. I think that I would have put another Spaniard at the back four.

42:27I don't think Spence should be there. I think Porro had a fantastic goal. Yeah, I agree with you. And he should be in there. The rest of the team I more or less agree on. And it's an unbelievable magic that you had so many Tottenham defenders in there. And Tottenham was 17th in the Premier League last season, which is quite interesting. But I think Poro was fantastic because Jamal didn't have his best World Cup. But wow, was he intelligent enough to play around him. Yeah, Poro was great. And I think he got left out one of the games early on and he came back in. So again, De La Fuentes was mixing and matching and trying to get a feel for it.

43:06What I would say, and I totally agree with Jan there, I would say about Jed Spence, he showed a lot of guts, didn't he? Because he got panned. Pretty harshly, actually, for the DR Congo game. And he got smashed from pillar to post. But yet, when Tuka asked him to come back in, in various positions, I thought he did a really, really good job. So, fair play to him, because the media, it seems, and certainly the fan base and maybe online, really went after that young man pretty harshly. but he sort of brushed it aside. Would you switch in Alisi and Rabiot for anybody here? Who do you? Alisi didn't play well.

43:43Alisi for Messi, maybe? He had a bad final. He had a bad semi-final. Oh, Darkies and Alisi for Messi. Do you know, I thought Coney and Rabiot played well for France up until he dropped Coney for two and many for the Spain game, which I thought was a little bit... I'll tell you who was disappointing for me in the World Cup in terms of consistency. Dembele. Yeah. But we did see signs of that in the season. Yeah, but he's been, you know, balling down. He lost the ball for one minute. What about Rodri, guys? What about Rodri? Oh, outstanding. The golden ball. I mean, going into that World Cup, we were all saying he's not really the same player after all the injuries.

44:25He's a question mark. And he's come on and played like that, you know, particularly in the semifinal and finals. So, right winner of the golden ball. He made it his own comeback concert, I think, that World Cup. Listen to Pep. Pep said that, didn't he? He will be top form in the World Cup. He said that, Pep Guardiola, before the World Cup. But I would put in something, boys, because Dembélé, yes. Olisse, I mean, he's a fantastic, fantastic player. But I think that we could be coloured by the semifinal because he didn't turn up in the semifinal. Neither did he do that for Bayern as well. Is that the only thing that we can have?

45:02a bit of negativity about Alise. I've got a question for you, by the way. It's got nothing to do with that team. So Alise, I don't know if this happened to any of you boys that played. When you play in the wide areas and all of a sudden you're brought in the middle for a spell and you play a run of games in the middle and then you're stuck back on the wide, it doesn't sit well with you because you're involved. Alise playing that number 10 was involved all the time. Actually, I thought he looked better as a number 10 as great as he's been all season in the wide area, I thought he looked even better in the middle.

45:37So is Elis's head going to be straight when he starts again? So he's going to start wide right for Bayern? Well, you've got... If he doesn't go to... I was going to say, if it's still at Bayern. If it's still at Bayern. I mean, Rodri, Haaland, Olisse, they're all going to go to Madrid now. I was just thinking... But it's a good point. I can see that, Stevie. And I think that is a tough part with France, with all the great players there, to find their position. I mean, you saw Cherokee as well being Selk United there for some time. All right. Well, as we said, that was the worst XI and best XI by Marc Ogden.

46:15But you might as well call him Professor Ogden because he's also given out some World Cup grades. Argentina and England having a C. Germany and Brazil, F failure. Thomas Tuchel, Jan, he's given him a D. Mauricio Pochettino as well as for Gianni Infantino. and Marcelo Viello, a resounding F. I mean, I don't know what Augie expected the U.S. to do. I know. They had one bad night, and it's not Mauricio Pochettino's fault. No. Although he should have been more careful with these words at the press conference. But it's not his fault that Gianni Infantino is as weak as he is. Right? The whole balligan thing, I don't want to go over this because we've all been over it.

46:55And if you're in America, when you were here in America, and some of the pundits here that really should have known better, but clearly don't, thought this decision was OK. It was utterly embarrassing. I mean, beyond belief. There's no player ever been sent off at a World Cup and has not missed a game. It's just never happened for obvious reasons. But actually, they played pretty well in getting to the last 16. They got outfoxed by Rudy Garcia, who left out, not a surprise, the big Lukaku up front, but it was maybe a little surprise he left out Doku and Kevin De Bruyne, who, by the way, came back for the quarterfinals because he wanted more pace on the side.

47:37So he got a little bit outdone there. But apart from that... Other than that, other than the Belgian... If they had got to the quarterfinals, Stevie, that would have been a World Cup win. Coming into the World Cup, we're all sitting going, what are we going to get for this American team? We didn't know. Yeah, we didn't. And then all of a sudden, all of a sudden, after two or three games, it's like, oh my goodness, this team's got an identity. This team squeezes a life out of people. He actually changed for a short period of time the whole outlook of not just USA fans, but us as well. We were sitting and going, because we've sat and watched all the games over the last 12 months leading up to the World Cup.

48:20We've been sitting going, oh my goodness, this team's garbage. They can't pass it, they can't keep it. Who's going to score a goal? I mean, those are all the things we were talking about. So Pochettino absolutely made a difference, a big difference. But this is a quote-unquote football populism from my good friend Mark Ogden, because he just goes into there. I mean, Argentina went to the final. I mean, that is point one. Thomas Tuchel took them to third place. That is a thing. England, what did he put? England put England down as well, didn't he? He just wants to... Mark Ogden, he's a professor.

48:56A professor don't care. A professor can stand all by his own. But he went for the easy way here, Mark. I mean, I so look forward to see him again. I've got to go and have a go with him. Because he went there easy. He was on the road again. He was Willie Nelson. He was Willie Nelson. He was on the road again. I will give you... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tuchel is bad. England is bad. Argentina is bad. No, no, no. And Brazil there as well. Brazil is on... was it an F? Yes. I mean, this Brazilian team was never going to win the World Cup anyway. They played Norway, by the way, so... You've got to understand what you've got to understand about all of them.

49:32Yeah, and I'm glad Mark Ogden isn't marking my school homework. I know. I'm not exactly known for being a ray of sunshine anyway. No, he would have liked you, He would have liked you or give me your name. See, Mark was travelling around because he's not... I had enough fails without that. He's travelling around on his own around the States because he hasn't got any friends. He's like Augie on He took his glasses off Get him back on He took his glasses off And Shaka said Put him back on He hung about with us For a few days And everybody just Weren't off into But he What's the lowest mark You can get An F out of Z An F is a failure It's a Z Gianni Infantino What did Spain get What did Spain get Spain he didn't put there He gave Spain an A apparently Not an A plus Not an A plus apparently Because you know Augie He'll always find the negatives Norway got to the quarter finals Jan didn't they Yeah Yeah, we did.

50:21We were happy. We were that wire. All right, well, there's plenty more football. If we also had the wire and that VIR, we'll be okay. Oh, the wire, yeah. Have we got to the bottom of that yet? Well, moving on from international football, club football is almost back. Preseason is going on right now, and Liverpool are touring the US. They'll be going up against Sunderland. That's this Saturday on ESPN Deportes. And then Stevie and I will be back as Liverpool take on Wrexham in New York. That's the 29th. You can find that match at 7.30 p.m. Eastern Time on ESPN and ESPN Deportes.

50:55All right, here's a look at the notable Premier League transfers that we have seen confirmed over the last couple of weeks. Remember, despite the World Cup, the summer transfer window is very much open. Of course, it has been led by Morgan Rodgers' transfer from Aston Villa to Chelsea. It was confirmed yesterday for a British record of£117 million. pounds. Craig, good business? I mean, him and Elliot Anderson, they're good players, but 100. 17's a bit steep. Also by Chelsea, who... Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of dosh, isn't it? I mean, Rodgers is a big, strong boy. He'll get you goals. He's a good runner.

51:35Can play in several positions. Anderson's tidy. Had a great season at Nottingham Forest. NC's in the England team. But, 116 million. Is it any wonder a lot of big clubs, other big clubs in England and around Europe, go outside of England to try and buy players? When you're getting prices like that, looking down that list, Tottenham have spent a bit of money, which is good news. He always felt the wood with De Zerbe because he's going to kick and scream, a bit like Antonio Conte in a sense, if he doesn't get his way. So they're going to be interesting. But yeah, Chelsea, I suppose if they spend that kind of money, what that will do with the supporters put a bit of pressure on the new manager Xabi Alonso to get the job done but don't forget they've sold Cucurella so they're a bit light there so they've got some other bits in the pitch that they've got to spend and as for Enzo Fernandez what are his future hoax I was saying to Mark when we were in New York he wants to go to Real Madrid but he's got Atletico Madrid written all over him yeah oh that's Central Los Angeles He's got, he's got, he's got, he's got, he's got, he's got everything you need to go to Atleti and fit right in.

52:51Not, not in Barca, not in Real Madrid. Yeah. Atleti. He's the perfect person for them, I think. So here's the one. Who's the most overpriced in that list on the left? What list? The list that we just, who's the most overpriced? I would say Elliot Anderson. What about Matthias Hernandez? 85 million yeah Matias Fernandez 85 million really what did they get for Somerville they've just sold Somerville to Saudi Arabia 70 million so they've got the best part wait till you hear this how well have they done to get the best part of 150 million pounds or euros scary for two players and they've been relegated they could probably have given them away for 20 scary and keeping and keeping Bowen as well going in to take them back.

53:43But I would say Aston Villa with selling Rodgers and Telemans, done a lot of money. Then he got Monsambi that we've seen at the World Cup. He's a player. We know him from Freiburg. He's a great young prospect, great talent, can play in different positions. So I would love to say that Aston Villa will be the big winner so far. And now I see they won't Garnaccio. So, sorry, I can't make the winners. Chelsea, you have to balance some way, somehow. Yeah, but Aston Villa don't have to balance. No, Aston Villa. They'll probably take squad player, maybe. Who knows? That's another gamble. That's another Cholo Simeone type player, too.

54:22Darkie, from the list that we saw, which one, which transfer stands out to you? Well, I think Morgan Rodgers going for$117 million. You can argue about the fee, but that's the kind of rate, you know, you've seen Caicedo go for over$100 million. Rice, Fernandes as well. Fiat's last season, sort of similar numbers. I think he is a game changer. Morgan Rodgers at his best. I don't think he had the great World Cup, quite subdued, never really got in contention with Bellingham, which we thought he would do for the starting place. So I think it's an important sign. I think Chelsea are interesting with Xabi Alonso.

54:57If he can work the kind of magic he did at Leverkusen with them, he might be a bit of a, he might be the spark that gets them going. And it was interesting. He tried to sign Granit Xhaka from Sunderland to be a leader among all those youngsters. But Xhaka wasn't having it. That isn't happening. And now there's talk about bringing an old head like John Stones in, though I understand Arsenal are also on Stones' radar too. So we'll see what happens. Darkie, not to put you on the spot, but I know you're a fountain of knowledge. Morgan Rodgers, Villa got a couple of good years, I believe, really good years out of Morgan Rodgers.

55:31And I think they bought him for£10 million from Borough. Eight. Yeah, I think it was eight plus add-ons. Eight billion. Can you believe that? Might have added up to about 13 to 15 in the end. But it's a huge markup. And I think Middlesbrough are going to get about over 20 million pounds as part of that deal as well. Because, you know, that's where he really kicked on at Middlesbrough. And this is a guy who was playing on loan at Blackpool and Lincoln, you know, not too long ago. It's been a meteoric rise. Yeah. Don't you think that Elliot Anderson, I mean, I'm with you. I mean, the prices nowadays are unbelievable anyway.

56:06But Elian Anderson and Rodri in that midfield, I think that would be a plus for Manchester City. Yeah, if Rodri stays, I suppose. It's true, isn't it? That's true. That's a big question indeed. All right. Well, speaking of Real Madrid, they've already done some signings in Marco Curea going from Chelsea. They have a world champion now. And here are some of the other notable transfers outside of the Premier League. well to keep up with all of the transfers going on this summer so far until the transfer window shuts make sure to check out transfer talk over on espn.com i'm hannah i've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with glp ones plus diet and exercise on row i've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day you can access fda approved glp ones online get the support you need to reach your weight loss goals.

57:01Go to row.co slash weight to see if you qualify. I'm a paid row partner. 20 % average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1 % in placebo arm. Rx only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to row.co slash safety. Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill? It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately, though, Mint's story is better.

57:30Every plan,$15 a month, even unlimited. That's it. Happy ending. Zero tears. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months, $90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Right. Well, Robert Lewandowski has officially landed in MLS, and he managed to cash up with Lizzie Becerrano ahead of Chicago Fire's game against Inter-Miami tonight.

58:01Welcome to Miami, welcome to Major League Soccer. I'd love to hear your experience and what you thought about the World Cup final. Oh, about the World Cup final, yes, like that was a nice experience. Of course, the game was like not spectacular games, but in the end from my side as football players, I know that the pitch is a little bit slowly, the field is bouncing, so it was difficult to play faster. But in the end, I knew that the Spanys are going to win this final because they were better with the ball. They had possession, they had the balance. And besides the football also, on the stadium was a lot of fun.

58:45So, yeah, that was a very nice time for me. We saw you celebrating the goal, I'm sure, but were you cheering on for your former teammates? I know a lot of players from Spain and I spent so many time in Barcelona with them, so I supported them a lot. Of course, I know from Argentina, personally, only Leo, but I know that he won the last World Cup, so that's why I support the Spanish national team, because if you play with them, if you know them, have you spent a lot of time that of course it's like easier to support this team and especially that they are very young and the future is front of from them and i hope that will be next time in their career i mean speaking of young we saw lamin yamal just absolutely shine you know him very very well did we see the best version of him during this world cup and what did you think about his performance this tournament?

59:45Honestly, no, he wasn't. So the best performance, the best Lamin-Lamal for me, of course, even not the last season, but two seasons ago, that was for me the best version of Lamin-Lamal. He's still young and of course he came to World Cup after injury, but he showed really good quality. And I think the Spain players as a team. And the team helped helped Lamin and Lamin helped also the other team and so I'm very glad that I can be on the final with so many teammates ex-teammates but still friends yeah Right well speaking of Barcelona they will be back in action in La Liga on August 23rd that's right La Liga will be back on our networks they will face Elche that's at 3pm Eastern time on ABC and ESPN Plus and if you want to see the full interview that Lizzie did with Robert Lewandowski just make sure to check it out on our YouTube channel

1:00:50and ESPN FC we are going on a break, yay stop it we're going on a little bit of a break, we'll be back on August 3rd on ESPN Plus but first time ever, first time this is the first hiatus I think since COVID but that was a forced hiatus I think we had a day in COVID, maybe two. And then we had to do everything at home, didn't we? Yeah, but we cracked on. Wow. What are you guys doing? This is the first time there's been a 48-team World Cup, so there's been more games. Bring on the 64 team. Oh, no. Hey, what are you doing? What am I doing? Yeah. Come on. Going away? No. Staying local? Stevie's doing some work.

1:01:33Yeah, Stevie and I are doing some work. We'll be back Saturday. We'll be back. We'll be back next week. We're doing Liverpool Rexel. We're at the Wicked. We apparently missed the memo. That's a Monday. That's a Monday. That's a Monday. Back in a Monday. We're back. But Stevie and I will be working throughout, though, because we are true professionals. Some are not. That's it for this ESPN FC. We'll see you guys again on August 3rd. But don't go anywhere because Extra Time is next.

1:02:00All right, welcome into Extra Time. We've got Jan, we've got Darkie, we've got Craig, who is yawning, and our Stevie sitting back. It's been a long World Cup guys, but final extra time for a bit. So let's get into it. And the first question is for Darkie. Ian, are you ready for 64 teams in 2030?

1:02:20I've got a feeling it might happen that there's a fair bit of resistance. I'm told with UEFA and one or two of the other confederations not sold on the idea. But I think the one plus of it is that you'd go back. You wouldn't have teams who finished third in the group qualifying. But how long is it going to take to play a 64-team World Cup? That's 24 more matches, I understand. The big advantage is that maybe Italy can play at the World Cup. Oh! Jan, that's not even on today. Poor Italy. They'll be back. This is a thing that Infantino will have on the table until he is elected. I think that the 48 teams, I think that was a success.

1:03:06I liked that. There was a lot of teams. Yes, that third kind of thing that made it a bit more confusing, but we can live with that. So, but I still think that would stick with 48. In the end, one of the things I didn't like in the end, but I thought it was OK to start with, was the head-to-head. Oh, yeah. Because it ruled out something like, for example, the US-Turkey game, third game would still have been live, had it been goal difference. and there was a few games that would have been still alive in the final matches had it been goal difference. The permutations may have been different for a bunch of teams rather than the head-to-head.

1:03:40Some of the games were dead and buried in the last game. I prefer the head-to-head. Really? I think it's a fairer way of doing it. If you play the so-called Minna in the first game and they're giving out every single thing they can and you win 2-0 or maybe 3, but then by the end of the tournament either they've got people injured saying, oh, I've suspended, and they end up losing seven or eight to somebody. And you get a reward for getting eight goals against a reserve team. I know, but there was a bunch of games that meant nothing in the end. Anyway. I think it's fairer, that's all. And you're all about fairness.

1:04:17I am very fair. He's all about fairness these days. My middle name. Next question for Craig and Stevie. Now that it's over, who wins biggest Daba of the World Cup? What's a Daba? What's a dubber? You've been talking to Pete again. Biggest dubber. Dubber. It's not a good thing. Okay. Biggest. Biggest dubber. Infantino. Aye. Yes, I nearly said Argentinian players. Well, they didn't cover themselves in glory either, but... Infantino's correct. I stick with a wire. I stick with a wire on that spider camp against England. The biggest dubber. You know what, Jan? I agree with you 100%. Very good, Ryan.

1:05:00You know, you want an individual that not only is he running the most powerful organisation in our sport, but on the face of it, from what we've witnessed over the last months and weeks, months and years, he's got no shame. No. He's got no. There's nothing he can do that everybody else goes, that's cringe, or that's wrong, or that's borderline corruption, what you're doing there. And yet he just boils out as if... He doubles down. He does. He doubles down and goes... Could I say something, Craig? And I'm with you, Infantino. I mean, we all know that. But for me, all the people who don't say anything, that is even worse.

1:05:43They don't stand up for these things. When I heard the experts saying, yeah, I was right what happened with that red card, I mean, things like that. We in Norway, we have... We have a president called Lisa Clavonis She's the only one who speaks up against these decisions. The most football associations keep their mouths shut. And this is not only the small ones, so kind of depending on the money from FIFA, these are the big nations. Where are they when we discuss the future of our game? Where are they? They are keeping quiet and kind of hiding behind the corner. Here's my second question of the day.

1:06:19Right? Right. You know, we talk about Donald Trump phoning Infantino about Balogun, right? Do you think there was another phone call before the World Cup about where the final should be played? Do you think that's possible? Because it makes no sense playing the final where they played it in the middle of the afternoon, 1 ,000 degrees. We were talking on air somewhere like Atlanta. Or Dallas. Yeah. Again, too. Stadium-wise. East Coast. Yeah. Stadium-wise, Atlanta, and it's covered, and it's very accessible because Atlanta's a huge hub. Yeah. So not only was New Jersey, the New York, New Jersey MetLife Stadium, not only was it open air, it's not the best stadium by a long shot.

1:07:09And the pitch was terrible. Yep. I think we know the answer. Decisions like that. I think we know the answer. But regardless of anybody phoning anybody, and I don't really want to get into that. The decisions come down to FIFA. Regardless of who's phoned who. You can get every Prime Minister or President around the world all phoning up with their gripes about their team. At the end of the day, FIFA have to police their game accordingly. And they did not. And as it turns out, a 12-man committee or a 20-man or whatever it is, that usually decides on an appeals process, And suspensions, it turns out it was one.

1:07:53I mean, you couldn't make it up. Cannot make it up. Next question is for Darkie. Ian, which match was your favourite to call this World Cup and favourite city? Well, Ian's going to like this because my favourite game I covered was Norway knocking out Brazil. I thought the atmosphere around that. And you were watching that game and seeing Brazil sit back. And I think I remember saying, sometime in the second half. Impossible to imagine, really, that a country like Norway should be doing this to a team with the history and tradition of Brazil. But they did. I thought Norway were absolutely terrific in that game.

1:08:32They well deserved the win. And it felt dramatic. And then all the scenes with the fans afterwards, the Norwegian fans, were out of this world with Arlen beating that drum in front of them. So, yeah, that was my favourite. As a commentator, I've said this to you before. we're weird people Craig knows that we're geekish so the place we like commentating from is where we've got the best view of the game and New York was very good in that regard it's not the best stadium best commentary position can I say something about that game that might have been the best save of the tournament in that game yeah and it was and it was from it was you can correct me if I'm wrong Jan it was from one of Norway's own players was it not?

1:09:15exactly it would have been it would have been an own goal that hasn't been I think that save was fantastic, the way he managed to pull that away. He had a great game, by the way. He saved the penalty and won against one there. But that save was amazing, and I'm with you, absolutely. Yeah, he was from another universe that day, wasn't he? That goalkeeper, Neelan. Yeah. All right, next question. How do you think Mikel Arteta felt seeing Declan Rice playing the full 90 minutes in a third-place game, Stevie?

1:09:49Well, he would be hoping that nothing happened, that's for sure. I think Arteta's one of those guys that is not normal. And he would be like, Declan Rice is representing Arsenal. And he should play. And he should play and all that kind of stuff. It's an honour and a privilege. I don't see him hoping he's not playing and all that kind of stuff. I don't see him being like that. Steve, having said that, Declan Rice in that bronze final, I mean the last 30 minutes he couldn't move. I was amazed that Tuchel didn't take him off. He could hardly not walk. He'd been struggling the whole tournament apparently with being ill, so how does he end up being one of the few that play the whole game?

1:10:33It's mad. Can't they just scrap that game? I mean it was exciting. Don't start Craig, he's been since 34. It was exciting. No, it was exciting. It was the only way that game was going to be interesting because it was as bonkers as it was. As it was. Because there's not a Tom, Dick or Harry had really any interest in it. No, the players barely looked like they did until they were like, you know what, we can have a go because defending us. The first half was embarrassing. The French didn't. You could tell they did not want to be there. The real. It's a tough one, isn't it? Stevie Mac was saying he'd rather get knocked out in the quarterfinals.

1:11:12I didn't have to say that. Knocked out of the same region, haven't we? Oh, gosh. Next question. Somerville to Saudi for 70 million at age 24. Transfer market's gone. Hmm. Jan? Well, I mean, we're waiting for that, that younger players will go to Saudi Arabia as well. I mean, I talk to lots of agents. I talk to the representatives of players. These things are discussed. I'm not sure how far Saudi Arabia want to take this, but this is a signal. But can you imagine when you're sitting there in the dressing room and one's earned five pounds and the next one's said, well, I have 15 and things like that.

1:11:52So maybe this is a signal or something. And we said in the programme as well, I mean, West Ham has done some fantastic business in this transfer window so far. And they've sold Somerville Fernandes for a lot of money and they've kept Bowen. But this could be a signal that younger players could go to Saudis. Not for the money, aye. Not for the prestige. No. You're 24 years old. You ain't going for the prestige. You're going for the dough. 100%. How much global interest, and I'm being a little facetious here, how much global interest is in the Saudi Pro League? I'll tell you. The only man alive I know that's ever been asked.

1:12:34Don. Don's the only man alive. And it's because he's commentated on it because he's getting paid. Ka-ching-ching! That is the one. That is the fact. All right. Next one now, of course, this one for you, Darkie, because everyone on the show has pretty much weighed in on the unfortunate passing of Kevin Keegan. Someone wants to know what's your best memory of the big man. Well, I covered Kevin Keegan. I mean, it's so sad that he's no longer with us. And condolences to all his family, friends and everybody in the game who loves him. And I think everybody in the game did love him as well. Going way back, I was assigned as a pretty young radio reporter to go and cover Kevin Keegan's debut for Newcastle United against Queen's Park Rangers towards the end of his career.

1:13:19I arrived at St. James' Park. He was sitting on a wall. There must have been 3 ,000 or 4 ,000 fans outside the ground trying to mill around him. I eventually got somewhere near him and I said, Kevin, I said, I'm here from BBC Radio. Can I do an interview with you? He said, sure, mate, no problem. Just stay there a minute. I'm going to sign everybody's autograph before. It took him three hours. He stayed until he'd signed every single autograph of those people who turned out to worship him as signing for Newcastle United. And that was Kevin Keegan. He used to invite the fans into the training. He loved the supporters.

1:13:54You remember when they sold Andy Cole to Manchester United, how he came out and explained it all to the supporters. And that's why he will forever be adored in Newcastle and way beyond Newcastle, by the way, as well. He fronted that up. I remember that when they were going to burn the shots and stuff and he came out. He didn't hide behind a PR machine. He came out in front of some really disgruntled fans and he fronted it up. I mean, I was lucky enough when ESPN UK was still around, which is not anymore, that I worked with Kevin for, it was at least a year, but it might have been more. It was Ray Stubbs presenting.

1:14:33it was myself and Kevin and some other guests. But, you know, I just, you know, I'm never really in awe of people, but I recognised what, as a youngster growing up, what this guy did both here in England for Liverpool, he was born and raised, I think, in Doncaster. But what he did for Liverpool, what he did at Newcastle, he played for Southampton, he was over in Germany, playing for Hamburg, I think he was Ballon d 'Or winner. Twice. Twice, back to back. Twice, twice. And he was just, you know, and we knew, Most of us knew that he'd been ill for quite some time, but we didn't know just how badly it was because it was a very personal issue.

1:15:09But, yeah, it was a... Actually, when I got a text of the day, it was... Because I was talking to him. We were talking to... Because I think he lives quite near Steve McManaman, or he did live quite near him. And we were talking... Actually, we were talking about him just three or four days ago, just before the end of the tournament, and Maka had said he thought he was looking a little better, that he was coming through it, and then the news came through that he'd passed. So, yeah, it was all quite sad. But what he did at Newcastle, as a manager in particular, the way his team played was quite incredible.

1:15:42As we said, that first game of the Premier League season, Liverpool-Newcastle is going to be a very... Spooky, yeah. Very spooky, isn't it? Yeah. I remember, I'm born in 67, so for me, the first big superstar of football was Kevin Keegan. I mean, it didn't matter which team you supported, it was Kevin Keegan. and I think it was interesting to also follow the German press after he passed away. I mean, because they said he was the first international superstar that came to them and it's nearly forgotten that he won Ballon d 'Or twice. I mean, he's one of the greatest and I remember and we all got our personal thing with him.

1:16:19I remember I met him the first time and I was just standing there thinking, I'm talking to Kevin King and how long can I stay? I want to stay three hours discussing football with him. How long is it rude? I don't want to be rude. I want to talk to this guy because this was the man. And I mean, I don't think people understand how big he was. He was like the superstar in football. I was in Hamburg. It was probably about 14 years ago now for a Europa League final. And there's a huge, big mural inside the tunnel in Hamburg of Keegan. It's huge. It's a big, massive, huge thing. I don't know if it's probably still there.

1:16:57obviously it's still there yeah they called him Mighty Mouse didn't they yeah I remember if you read his book he said when he went to Hamburg initially the other players didn't take to him he took a long time to settle and then he got injured and was out of the team and they stopped winning football matches because there was no one putting the ball in the back of the net when he came back to the team they fell in love with him again because he was scoring goals. They were getting their win bonuses again. So he was suddenly the idol and going down to the cafe and eating with them. But it took a bit of time.

1:17:38Parker, me and you might... Jan might remember Superstars. Do you remember the Superstars? Yeah. I remember it. I remember it. When he was biking. When he crashed his bike. Press-ups and... So it was round an actual track. Like a motorbike? No, a cycle. Oh, a field, is it? Superstars was like almost like a decathlon Ah, okay, okay, okay For Celebrity Celebrity Sports people But he was so desperate to win that he forgot he was going around in a circle and he was going too fast and so instead of going around the corner he kind of went half straight and smashed down to the barrier and was out of the game He just wanted to win That competitive Yeah Yeah, definitely I might look that up on the way home You're going to watch that tonight, isn't you?

1:18:24Aye He's watching that tonight You're too keen. He's lacking that tonight. That's tonight sorted. That's tonight sorted, Stevie. Good memories of definitely what will be a legend that we won't be forgetting any time soon. Next question, Stevie. Looking at the contrast in performances of Koubar C with the national team as compared to at club level, should we really judge any defender for not being flawless while playing in a Hansi Flick suicidal highline? I tell you, that... You know, sometimes it's a little, you forget how easy it is to sit here and just watch. Yeah. And you forget that during the game, on the field, it's a different game.

1:19:07And sometimes we forget that. And, you know, Kubar C, to do what he's doing as a defender at 19, is pretty incredible. Yeah. You know, generally your best defenders have got experience behind them. They've been through some stuff and they've learned from it. You know, starting positions. This kid has almost everything. The one thing that I just don't think he has is one-on-one defending. But in terms of reading the game, positional sense, passing the ball, I mean, everything else is just flawless. Flawless. That's why he won his award and now he's the world champion. Next question. What does Unai Emery see in Garnacho?

1:19:55Is he the new Jadon Sancho? Oh, no. Wow. I don't even know who to go to first. We're all asking. Jan. Jan? Well, I said it in the main program. I was saying that I wanted to make Villa the winner of the transfer window so far. And then suddenly turn off with Garnacho. I mean, is it a joke? I mean, okay, so we see different journalists promoting him. He's walking, he's coming, he's coming. The same person did that when he was going to Manchester United to Chelsea. And I mean, I respect Unai Amri. So if he takes him on, he probably has a great idea. But I can't see it. Sorry. I can't see it. I can't see any reason why Aston Villa, a well-functioning team, Manzambi coming in, can play in a different position.

1:20:55Why on earth would you like Garnaccio? Darkie, you agree? Yeah, totally agree. A mystery to me. I think, you know, when he left Manchester United, they'd have driven him to the airport to leave. So, you know, it didn't work for him at Chelsea either. They're very anxious to get rid of him. And, you know, they've got a good fee. So, I mean, I think Jan's right. Maybe, maybe Unai Emery looks at him and sees something we're not seeing and thinks he can bring something out of him. But it's quite a difficult one to understand. And I think the Villa fans feel the same. Ian, what's happened to the red curtains?

1:21:31This is a bit of a step-up in backdrop. I know, it's looking very modern, very new. I thought an upgrade was needed, you know. I thought I'd just give you a bit of a different scene tonight. We love that. We love that. I don't want to disappoint people. They're still here. They're still here. Ian, after you told your wife that there was something wrong with Tuchel, she said you will have new curtains, my friend. We're not bringing that conversation back. You and I are finished with these curtains, she said. Exactly. All right, final two questions now. This one for Craig and Stevie. When you return to the UK, do you get comments about how your accents have Americanized?

1:22:12A little bit. I don't think Stevie's. I get it from my sister. The odd world. I get back in my hometown, which is in Scotland, which I don't go to very often now. No, I mainly go to England, to Nottingham. And where Stevie's from? In Trin, which is about 25 minutes away. I get a lot of when I did go back when my parents were sort of getting old and passing away was your accents changed from your local from all the locals more like a neutral by the way, his locals if you'd heard the locals where I come from speaking in the pub or wherever you wouldn't understand them they always say your accents changed from that where's that air?

1:22:56no, come look air shot, exactly Although I did send a video to a friend of mine for a former player, David Proven, who Stevie and I know. It was his 17th birthday, so I sent a little WhatsApp video. And he said a little bit of an American twang in there. Really? I don't hear that. I don't hear it either. That's awesome. I don't hear it with you either, but you say your sister says he does. My sister, every time I speak to my sister, she'll go, look at my American accent. I'm like, what are you talking about? Yeah. No, honestly. I hear you do a very good southern accent. Like, how y 'all doing?

1:23:38Y 'all? Y 'all. Y 'all. To be fair, he's got Alabama written all over him. Alabama. Alabama. All over him. Alabama. I've got some very interesting stats about Alabama, but I'm not going to say that. You've been to Alabama. I've been down there. Yeah, I went on a golf trip there. I've been on two trips there. First and last. I'm not going back. I was going to say what stands out. No, it wasn't Alabama. It wasn't that, it was the weather. The weather, aren't raining? Hot. Yeah, cold. No, cold. Cold, hot. Went at the wrong time of year. All right, final question. Has anyone seen The Odyssey yet? No, but I am going this weekend.

1:24:13What is it? Yeah, I'm going to go. The Odyssey. Yeah. Not yet. Yeah, what is it? It's a new movie. It's a new movie, but it's also... Well, he's asking me about the story of Odysseus. What is that? I've no idea where it is. What is it about? No, it is. It's a great film, Kooters TV. You will go to the... We have to see the film, but after the Vikings, the Norwegian Vikings came to USA, he'll give you the taste to go and see this one as well. So, yeah, that's a brilliant film. Everybody's talking great about it. But it's also like, you know Odysseus, the story of Odysseus that Homer wrote? Who?

1:24:47Who's she? Nobody knew history. There's nobody. Who's she? Anyway. The only Odysseus I know is Apollo 13. Greg hasn't caught up with Casablanca yet. Along that. Oh, Darcy, we're going to have to teach them history, man. I've got a few to see. You haven't seen Casablanca yet? Yeah, I've got a few other films to watch. Have you not seen Casablanca? Casablanca? Yeah. Did you see Oppenheimer? No. Oh, good film. No. Did you see Barbie? Yeah. Did you like Barbie? There's a lot of dancing and singing in there. No, not really. Oh. No. I took my granddaughter and I was... Yeah, I didn't like it. Did you go in pink?

1:25:24Not my game. No. Stevie Nipka doesn't like Barbie Stevie doesn't like Barbie Actually what is your favourite film? Hold on, welcome back, it's the 3rd of August What's your favourite film Stevie? Before we wrap Gerard Butler, what do you call it? When he's in Braveheart He's blowing things up That's Mel Gibson What do you call it? The 300 No, no, Sparta That is the 300 When he does This is Sparta Let's get off it. Oh, that's a 300, isn't it? Yes, it is. All right, that's it for. Make sure ESPN FC, we are back on August 3rd. Until then, adieu. This is Sparta.