Germany Wins Late

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1:20Hello and welcome into the latest edition of ESPN FC. Kane Murray, Stuart Robson and Nader Manua here in the studio. It's a late one. We've been watching games for you and we have seen Germany secure their spots in the next round, going into the knockout stages for the first time since 2014. It was a late comeback over Ivory Coast and we got to see two goals from substitute Denis Undev. We're now welcoming a man who has won it with Germany, Jürgen Klinsmann, joining us to react to what we just saw, a dramatic late winner and Denis Undev with the goals once again, Jürgen. Yeah, obviously very, very late, but it finally came.

2:00I think it was an interesting game. I think Ivory Coast had more from the game, especially the first hour. They did more for it. They created more. They were physically above Germany in many, many occasions, and Germany struggled. They really struggled. But then Julian Nagelsmann did change with three guys, and especially, obviously, bringing in Dennis Undaff from Stuttgart made a big, big difference. He's kind of an old-school, typical number nine. His job is to get us a goal or two. And the second one came very, very late in the game, but he came, and obviously that pushes Germany through to the next round already.

2:39And we think, you know, so step by step, we can forget the two nightmares in Russia and then Qatar with the last two World Cups. Let me stick on Denis Undev if I can then, Jürgen, because that's two games for him now. He scored in both of them. In the first game as well, he also had two assists. There's been a lot of talk. A lot of German fans wanting this player to start. We know it's been well documented in the past that Nagelsmann had said that he's much more effective coming off the bench. Should he be starting when he's putting up numbers like this in the first two games? Well, he absolutely creates his spot.

3:17I mean, he pushes and all he can do is, you know, push even more and make the coach change his mind and bring him from the beginning on. I mean, we had the discussion throughout the entire year. We were not even sure if he brings Dennis Undav to the World Cup Nagelsmann. Then, thanks God, he did then. And he's just an old school goal scorer. He's hungry for every opportunity out there. He doesn't need many occasions and he's very effective. He had a brilliant season with Stuttgart in the Bundesliga, scored 26 goals, and is very effective also in the national team. Now, we all know that Nagelsmann, he prefers a little bit the kind of the fourth number nine position of Havertz, and obviously Havertz did also a good job in most of the occasions, but I think he deserves it.

4:04He deserves a chance from the beginning on, but the tournament is still long. I mean, it will be a lot of matches still being played, but I think he created himself now a very, very good case. They had to fight harder for this win today than they did the 7-1 over Curacao, Stuart. Yes, they did and Jürgen's absolutely right because Cote d 'Ivoire, Ivory Coast, were very good in midfield. They kept on winning the ball back. Wurz was trying to turn with the ball. He got caught a couple of times. Same with Havertz and Metz got caught with the ball a couple of times and that created problems for Germany.

4:37They went with a system where they played three at the back when they were in possession and Brown was playing that bit further up on the left-hand side. And it didn't really click for them. And we saw that Sane never went down the outside. He always had to cut inside and it just went into traffic. I thought it was a very tough game for Germany and they did enough in the end to win. But it showed that some of their key players, their quality players, aren't quite on form at the moment. What stood out to you, Nadem? I think it was the way they were pushing on towards the end. And we can look at it from a German perspective, but I think also from the Ivory Colts perspective, towards the end of the game, we saw so many opportunities where in transition on the counter, if they were a little bit better, maybe they win the game.

5:15But in fairness, when they weren't taken out, I like the fact that Germany kept pushing on, kept pushing on, kept pushing on. And for me personally, that assist from Metz is like, it's a top quality assist. And for Runderv, I've got to be honest, like if we're going to say that he's going to start, I don't know if he's best to start over Havertz. I'm not sure if he's best to start over Musiala, but what I would say for his first goal, Havertz is in the box and he attracts some attention because of how big he is and how he can head the ball. so that creates the space for Undav himself so maybe he's more of a complement to Havertz and we are seeing lots more teams play with two up front we saw Sweden not do it very successfully to start the game today but they did play with almost two up front at the end so particularly when the ball went out wide Havertz was making his run into the box Undav was already there so there is more of a threat when the ball does come in I'll be honest with you nobody wants to feel like they're a super sub because there's this sense that you should deserve to start but the game state is always different when you come on as a sub you know against Curaçao They were essentially broken by the time he's coming on.

6:09In this game here today, Germany, I felt, were able to create a few more opportunities. The game was becoming a little bit more stretched. You needed somebody to be in that position. If he would have started the game, would he have had the same sort of opportunities? And who would he have started instead of? Would it have been Havertz or would it have been Muziala? Because you can't see those players going out and playing where Sani's playing. So that's a problem for Germany as well. Yeah, because that had been what Nagelsmann had said. It was after a friendly against Ghana. Undov had come off the bench, scored the winner.

6:35he'd said afterwards, would he have been able to do that with 70 minutes under his belt and not being as fresh off the bench? Nagelsmann's partner said, maybe you need to walk that back, have a little talk with him, maybe you're a bit too blunt with the media. Maybe partners should keep out of it a little bit. There we go. I think there's a good thing at the moment though, right? Undav is at the moment being perceived as super sub, he's like minutes per goal contribution is great. Well, we were looking at scenes when they celebrated the second goal, like someone like a Valtemada isn't even, he's not first choice, he's not second choice.

7:03He's essentially just a fan at this point, you know what I mean? Because Vltamada won't play up front when he's playing for Newcastle. He's a front player that almost drops into midfield at times. I think he's been asked to do that, but I don't think he actually wants to be that danger man in the box anymore. Obviously, he's capable of starting. That speaks for itself and death, but he's in the sweet spot right now. He certainly wants him in the team. She's been promoting him for a long time. There we go. I've got to say, I'm with many of the German fans there. Okay, one thing I do want to talk about is how they overcame some adversity in this game, Jürgen.

7:31We did see in the first half they had the ball in the net, but two goals were ruled out. of fouls in the build-up. You can see that Nagelsmann was a little bit frustrated as well. The fans were, they were whistling the referees. What did you make of those goals that were ruled out? I think it was fine that they were ruled out. I think the referee was right. But you could see in the reaction of Nagelsmann that he was stressed out. I mean, he was very tense, even at the end, you know, asking for the final whistle. You know, he was up to one. And you can see, you know, what it means for Germany now to get through to the knockout phase, obviously with the second game already.

8:10Yeah, when things don't go your way, I mean, you are under a lot of pressure. You are under a lot of stress. And yeah, and then you complain with the fourth referee on the sideline. You complain with everybody else. But, you know, obviously you calm down now because you won the game. You already qualified for the round of 32. And yeah, it takes one game at a time. But there's a lot of stress on all these coaches. Schlotterbeck went off injured. Rüdiger came on. Is there a concern there for you if Schlotterbeck is to be injured and not to be available for Germany? Obviously, we don't know the extent of what it is right now, Jürgen.

8:48Yeah, obviously, we hope it's nothing bad. But even if Tarr and Rüdiger, I mean, you know, Real Madrid, centre-back is jumping into that position, they should be fine. So, they have made it to the knockout stages for the first time since 2014. Since then, it's not been so nice for them, or so kind to them has the World Cup. In 2014, they went on to win it. What are we looking at now with this Germany team? What are their limitations in how far they can go? Limitations is a good question. I think it's always relative to the opponent that they face. I think I like today the fact that they got over the line because it shows they can push and sort of put the quality in there you want to have subs making an impact and that's what we saw with undev and others but also like i think the schlatterbeck thing if he's going to be out for a while is an issue because for as much as rudiger is a realm to return to half i like a left-footed player on that side it sort of opens up the game in a different sort of manner because you want to hit those big diagonals exactly yeah like you wouldn't want something as simple as say an attacker to go and press a player to go into their weaker four to have a big impact at this sort of like world stage but i uh i was impressed with them this might seem silly but i was impressed them with the 7-1 because they were clinical they were really really clinical this was around the time when spain had dropped points and i think uh switzerland had dropped points but they stepped up he went one one we thought oh maybe this is going to be a poor version of germany like we've seen in years gone by there's just goal after goal after goal after goal and i think the mentality that they're going to be taking from this moment now knowing that they've qualified and knowing that not many people are sort of having them on their radar as such like germany is a dark horse is a terrible thing to be facing.

10:23So, yeah, I think the limitations basically come down to who they're playing against, but the squad is right there, I think. I think they're, at the moment, limited because on paper, I think it looks a very good side. But we're not seeing Wirtz at his very best. He's lost that little bit of confidence. When he's playing well, he zips past people and goes past them easily. He didn't really do that over the first two games. Can he grow into the tournament? He could grow into the tournament, so hopefully he gets better, he gets more confidence. Musiala was taken off today. you know he's another player that goes past people so easily today had the ball pinched off him once or twice you know in bad positions and then you're looking at Sane he's not really giving you anything out on the right hand in terms of creativity yes he gives you width and they can get the ball out to him and he might pass it square and backwards but the big issue I had today was the formation where they've when they're in possession they've got a back three and Brownlee's playing higher up the field when they lose possession that switcher play out to the left-sided player.

11:15Diomone it was today and that's where the goal was created. Kimmich, I think, is a wonderful, wonderful central midfield player. I love him on the ball but I don't see him as a very good 1v1 defender and that might just cause them a problem in the big games. How far can they go, Jürgen? How confident are you feeling? I think they can go far but obviously I totally agree. I mean, they are by far not where they should be. I mean, certain players, you know, they're still trying to reach their form, reach their effectiveness. There's Musiala, there's Wirz. I mean, the positive side, certainly, and Undaf, when he comes in, you know, a very positive player emerged just now as Metschaf as a number six role.

12:02Everybody's really, really happy with him. For Kimmich, as Rob said, it's not the ideal position. he's a number six and he has to help out because there's no better right back so he has to help out as a as a right back and so there's a lot of of yeah a space still to to climb for in the German side but I think the positive thing about Germany has always been you know even if they start slow into the tournament or you know not ideal and a lot of players maybe it's only 60 70 75 percent And when they go then more and more kind of into a rhythm throughout the tournament and reach their 80, 85 or 90 percent then towards the final stage of the tournament, then I think they're a serious contender.

12:50And this is what I can see in that team. There's a lot of quality there. A lot of players haven't reached their highest quality level yet, but there's a lot possibly still to come. And that's our hope. Let's put it that way. Speaking of hopes, let's talk about Jan Diamande, who's been talked about today. Obviously, he provided the assist for Frank Kessie with Ivory Coast goal today. But he's in all the headlines at the moment, especially back in England, because reports say that Liverpool are very, very keen to get their hands on him and have made an offer for his services. But Jürgen, you've known about this player for quite some time.

13:32Yeah, that's true. My video assistant from the U.S. soccer time, and he still is in a certain way on my side when another adventure maybe comes up. Troy Barty is his name. He discovered him already over four years ago in the African Under-17 Championship because he kind of goes through all the material and looks for all the players coming out in all the different countries. So he spotted him and he recommended him to an agency. The agency brought him over to the United States, where he then went to high school and then played in the fourth division, basically, in the U.S. before then Legunes came in and then, obviously, was sold to Red Bull Leipzig.

14:12And this is a very, very special kid. I mean, this is the talent that he has, the dynamic, the speed. Also, this kind of a little bit of a street football instinct that he carries inside of him is very special. So it will be interesting to see if now a caliber like Liverpool comes in or another big team. He was on trial a couple of times with some Premier League clubs in the recent years. Also with Chelsea, when Mauricio Pochettino was the coach there, he was on a trial. He was, I think, Bournemouth and two or three other teams. And nobody picked him up. And he went back to the US playing fourth division and then got obviously transferred over to Europe.

14:56Yeah, it's been a great season for Jan Diamande with Leipzig as the numbers show. It's interesting, though, how the pieces would fit together if he is to come to Liverpool. Yes, because, you know, that's the club that have shown interest, apparently. But we just saw Gakpo play brilliantly for the Dutch national team, who plays in that left-hand side position. They've got N 'Gamoa, who also plays out in that position, who the Liverpool fans love, and he's only 17. You've got Florian Wurz, who can sometimes drift to that left-hand side as well. So there's a lot of players in that Liverpool side that he'd have to displace to get a chance, which is fairly difficult, I would say.

15:32You know, Isaac as well, who's coming back maybe to form. We saw that with Sweden. So it's going to be... and Eketike. You know, so there's a lot of players he's going to have to displace to get a chance in that Liverpool team. But he does go there. I'm OK with it, you know. I'm OK with it, just because... Well, for him to go there? Yeah, I am just because for the years that are coming up, these are the post-Seller years. so whereas previously all those players would need to find a slot one of the two slots on the left hand side basically now that whole front line could start to turn into something different I think this in terms of say what Liverpool are going to look like in the next few months and so on we're going to get a different feel for it I think for the last seven or eight years or so it's been Liverpool, it's got Van Dijk here, this guy here and Salah on the top right hand side but now it has to be different and I think for Diamande watching him today and watching him in the first game kind of shows me Jürgen's story because I could see how, for example, he could be in the US 4th Division and there are times where I could see where if he came on trial to England, he's not really as polished as some other people are.

16:32So his ceiling is really, really high. But I think at times, like some of the stuff which you want to be really consistent and good isn't necessarily up to the level that, say, some people would expect. And also coming on trial to any football club with a two-week trial is almost impossible to show up because the other players are all used to the drills you do. They're all used to the coaches. They know what the coaches expect. you come in and might do something different than the coach no no no and it's happened to me as a coach you know i i got rid of a couple of players that went on to be very good but for those two weeks they were absolutely hopeless yeah for sure and with if he was to go to liverpool or say go to any new side i think a big thing because of his age is player development like he can come into a liverpool side that has to be successful but if he's not going to be developed individually liverpool won't get the full value of him because i think the scouts themselves i'm sure you can see this have seen something in this player which they really like but it's not the only thing it might not even be the biggest thing we've got to make it clear this is only just talk that yeah yeah of course i'm just saying in general like wherever he goes he's a 19 year old with huge potential yeah psg reported to be interested too and that if that potential is realized then we're probably going to have one of the best wings that could be playing in around europe one of the best african players if he goes there he's got barcola and carrots calia to get past on the left hand side but nothing to worry about nothing to worry yeah he's still young while we are talking about Yandir Mandela let's touch on Ivory Coast because obviously they had a win in their first game over Ecuador you could see at the end of the game the players were absolutely gutted it felt like a bit of a gut punch for them because they did have some chances themselves in this game it could have gone a different way Nader it could have and you could argue possibly should have with some of the breaks that they had like we're seeing times where they're going through you play someone and take it first time now they're taking extra touches and then the chance disappears some of the moves that they had didn't finish with them even having shots on goal which is not necessarily deeply concerning but you yourself like playing at the back sometimes you've been doggies you've been battling you've been fighting you can see something positive happening ahead of you and then it leads to nothing and the ball starts coming straight back at you i think from a disappointment standpoint i don't think that many players that would lose a game in the night in like the last minute of the game and feel okay with it we go to jürgen's point earlier on when he said that athletically they were stronger than germany in that first i would say 50 55 minutes that's where they were winning the balls back in midfield they were running off germany's midfield they were going past gimmick down the outside on several occasions.

18:46And in the end, they just didn't quite have the ability to hold off Germany. Great to see Kessie score. He was one of my favourite players when he was playing for AC Milan. And you remember that? Yeah. I think for me, though, it's not even necessarily even about the ability because I think they're good enough to do it. Those players that are playing up in those attacking areas for them, these are really good players. So that's the disappointment because they could have done better and they probably should have done better. And if they do, then they win the game. One team that should have definitely done better in this World Cup was turkey but time is up for them they were beaten by paraguay 1-0 that game finished with galarza with the early goal in this one but one of the big talking points of course has to be the red card for miguel almiron we will get to that in just a moment but us clinching group d after tenman paraguay did defeat turkey it's definitely benefited them due to the fact that this is an expanded format though we want to talk about now that game against turkey doesn't matter like we thought it might for the United States.

19:45We knew it was going to be the last game in the group for them. So obviously you know they're not going to put full force into that game as they might have if something more was riding on it. So Jürgen, it got us wondering how you actually deal with that wait time in between because that's something we're going to be seeing now in this expanded format. As a manager, what are you doing with your players? Because it's going to be what, July 1st? Until they're playing a game that really matters again in the tournament now. It is a very tricky one. On one side you want to give the players that haven't played much minutes so far a chance to play a World Cup game and prove themselves and rest the other ones and then start really fresh the knockout phase.

20:27On the other side, there's always then the risk, you know, if you now utilize too many of the bench players, then you kind of, you lose the momentum. You lose also a little bit of the rhythm. And I personally always prefer to bring the strongest 11 I have available game per game because I want them to have a rhythm and I want them to fight also the moment of getting tired. The tiredness is an issue that you have to go through and experience this game by game by game. So now with this game against Turkey, it's really tricky. And so, yeah, I'm curious to see what Maurizio Pochettino is doing there.

21:05Yeah, it is interesting. It is. I agree wholly with Jürgen. And he can probably remember the time when in the 2006 World Cup, Argentina, I think, had won their first two games. And they were the best team in the tournament. They played brilliantly and they rested all their players for the third game. And they lost their momentum. I think they played Jürgen's Germany in the next round. And Germany beat them on penalties, if I'm not mistaken. and but all the momentum went out of Argentina who had played brilliantly for the first two games changed all the players and it changed the momentum going into that that the next round yeah and you wonder about it as a player point of view how to stay up for everything that's ahead with with that weight in between yeah quite quite possibly but I think this is interesting because I believe there are some players who are already on the yellow card for the USA so I'm with Jürgen that you want to put out a strong team especially because you're hosting this whole event like all the fans are to be coming to that third game even though they know they qualified they want to see something positive they want to like have that energy around it again but what happens if for example is like tyler adams picks up another yellow card then before you know it he's missing the knockout game and this game obviously every game essentially does matter and i wonder also what the approach from turkey will be because for them they've essentially were in a position where they've got nothing but pride left to play for but maybe that means they go into this game and they're really really combative.

22:21Having seen the two Turkey games, they could have played for another 90 minutes. They wouldn't have scored. You could tell right from the start of the Australia game that they didn't have any penetration. They had lots of shots. They had lots of possession. But when balls were coming in the box, the crosses weren't good enough. They didn't have enough players arriving in the box. There was not enough quality in the top third of the field, even with Ardegulair playing. So it's still a game that the United States should win. Yeah, I'd just be concerned if, say, for this next week leading up to the next game, they became this atmosphere and energy like the next game didn't matter because from when you get that once that might stick with the team for the rest of the tournament so I think as long as Pochettino is keeping them honest keeping them serious knowing that there's a value in every game that they play then in some ways it might not matter which team he picks as long as the mentality is the same.

23:05Now that they have won the group we've been able to look at who their potential next opponents would be and there's a percentage on this as well these are current third place holders in each group so right now the percentage chance of it being bosnian herticovina is the highest followed by jordan senegal ecuador and then japan with the lower percentage right now it will be a third place finishing team it's for them something that you'd look at and think okay this is a this is a this is the next game that we could be winning too surely jürgen I don't think that they look at this. I mean, I wouldn't, to be honest, because first I've got to get the job done, finishing the group, and then there's so much still movement for the third-place spot in all the groups that I wouldn't look at that kind of ranking at the moment.

23:59It's going to change, obviously, dramatically. Once you get out of the group phase, a new tournament will start because a knockout game is just like a final. So you're going to go from final to final to final. And hopefully you're going to go all the way till the end. But I would not look at that kind of list now and think, OK, maybe Bosnia-Herzegovina, we're better, whatever. But, well, they just left Italy at home. You know, and then you go down the ranking. There's a reason why these teams are here. They're all good teams. So there's no team that you can underestimate in the knockout phase, no matter if they are finishing their group in third place or not.

24:37Yeah, when you say these group finishes, it would be US getting a third place team. Other group winners would get a second place team. It's the nature of how the tournament's been set up, that it could be a more favourable draw so that the host nations will play their games at home. Is that fair? I don't know. Well, is it fair? What is fair? Fair is fair, isn't it? You're at home, so it's an advantage. Having a World Cup in your own country is always an advantage. Because you're naturally qualified anyway. Yeah, and if you look over the years, they haven't always won it, but if you look over the years, some of the countries have had their best times when they've been on home soil.

25:17England have only won the World Cup once on home soil. They got to the European Championship Fund on home soil. That's when teams have their best opportunities. Yeah, Spain, Brazil and Argentina could all face a second-place team, even if they win their groups. unfortunately that's just the way the cookie crumbles but what I would say like the third place finishes obviously Jürgen's not really looking into it too much but whichever team finishes third like you arrive there possibly with some level of momentum and I think the examples that stick in my mind the 2016 Euros Portugal qualified out of the group third they drew three group games and won the whole thing and then and I think you're I mean I'm trying to my memory is a long time ago in 19 or it was 1982 the Italians now we're going back in the italians i think drew three games got three points and got through as the third place team and went on to win it against germany so there's no guarantee that like that's going to be easier because sometimes it depends on the nature of the group that they're in so okay let's move on to talk about miguel almiron who became the first player sent off for covering his mouth this is a new role it's been brought in for the world cup and we just wonder how this all plays out jrgen when you look at new rules and you're coming into a tournament like this you're wondering does this player know that this is happening is there a chance he forgot that this is now a rule and he wasn't paying attention like how do you ensure that the players know any new rules coming into a tournament so the players are being briefed by by a FIFA official before the tournament they're coming in and they explain those new rules and have a talk in front of the whole team it's actually quite a bit of a serious lecture but let's put it that way so obviously he knew but i think in this moment when he did that he forgot it he simply forgot it otherwise he he's not doing that so it's uh whatever rule you kind of change it will be always a little bit of a time issue until you really kind of fully implement it in your own system and when you're in the field and when things happen so quickly you're so full of energy full of emotions and and sometimes you don't think you think clear it's but it's that's human That's human as well.

27:26And I just think he simply forgot that new rule. And now he ran into a red card, unfortunately. It's got to be incredibly frustrating, though, Jürgen, if you're the coach of Miguel Almiron, to see this happening and thinking you forgot at this level right now. Oh, absolutely. I mean, as a coach, you think, no, please, not. But at the end, they won the game. They were defending like heroes. the rest of the game. It was a long, suffering time there for Paraguay. I think Turkey, yeah, I mean, we talked about it. They actually dominated both games and lost both games because they were not able to put the ball in the back of the net, which with players like Yildiz and Güler, they have the players that can do that.

28:13Maybe they do it against the U.S. because last year they had a friendly with the U.S. that Turkey won 5-0, if I'm not mistaken. So, yeah, it's a tough one. It's a tough one. But with Miguel Almiron, it's a lecture for him. And as long as the team advances to the next round, I think his coach will forgive him. I love that Jürgen politely said that these meetings are very, very boring. Oh, they're rubbish. So why are you paying attention? Yeah, well, this is the story of the student that paid attention, because that's how he did pay attention. It was the player for Türkiye. He's like, referee, referee, he's covered his mouth, he's covered his mouth.

28:50Because he's paid attention to that lecture. and I've got to say by the way for Miguel Almiron like I played in MLS with him fantastic players to see him go to England all that stuff was great but his legacy in this tournament especially if they go out so he got that red card just recently do you know what happened in the first game with him another rules thing which has hit him he dived over Tim Ream Tim Ream got a yellow card they checked the VAR they overturned the yellow card for Tim Ream and gave it to Miguel Almiron so he is suffering with these new rules. He fell asleep in the middle. He wasn't very good at school.

29:24He couldn't stay awake. He had ADHD I think. That's what it was. Something was going on outside the window. You'll take too long on a throw index or something like that and get a yellow card for that. We were talking to our co-pundit. Shaka said he'd have been asleep after the first 10 minutes. But he goes to sleep over most things, doesn't he? Yeah, Shaka does. Shaka could sleep anywhere. He could sleep on a clothesline. Anyway, make sure to stay up to date with everything else that's going on in the World Cup over on our YouTube channel. You'll get delights like this. Ali Moreno jumping on the USA bandwagon.

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31:52That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash FC. One more time, gusto.com slash FC.