In short
ESPN FC’s panel (Dan Thomas, Ali Moreno, Craig Burley, Stevie Nicklewood) and guest Stuart Robson discuss Liverpool’s Champions League match at Anfield vs Atletico Madrid and other European games. Liverpool won 2-1 after Atleti’s Llorente scored; Liverpool responded with goals from Soboslai and McAllister.
Key claims
Liverpool looked “way better” than their Premier League form, especially when they won the ball back and played with intensity; defensively, they still have issues organizing counters and protecting the left side. Florian Vert impressed most, influencing play and finding space off the shoulder of the defensive midfielder, but needs more consistent productivity (goals/assists). Robson also argues Julian Alvarez didn’t play like a traditional No. 9—he operated deeper as a playmaker/connector—while Atleti look “average” under Simeone compared to their past physical, team-defending style.
Notable examples
Vert’s back-post chance saved by Jan Oblak; Alvarez’s assist leading to Llorente’s goal; Atleti midfield being outnumbered early.
Guests
Stuart Robson (former player/analyst).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOLiverpool's Victory Over Atletico Madrid
0:00 to 0:25
Discussion on Liverpool's performance against Atletico, including key player contributions and areas of improvement.
“ESPN's going to Super Bowl 61 and so can you.”
Liverpool's Victory Over Atletico Madrid
0:58 to 2:46
Discussion on Liverpool's performance against Atletico, including key player contributions and areas of improvement.
“The chance that Barcala had was all about the lovely ball from him.”
Florian Wirtz's Impact on the Game
2:46 to 4:27
Analysis of Florian Wirtz's performance and potential for future contributions to Liverpool.
“But, you know, that being said, they don't have too many options.”
Discussion on McAllister's Recent Performance
4:27 to 6:39
Discussion on McAllister's goal and his press conference remarks about contracts.
“What did you make of Barcola today, Robbo?”
Atletico Madrid's Struggles and Identity Crisis
6:39 to 11:01
Analyzing Atletico Madrid's current form, style of play, and struggles under Diego Simeone.
“And as Craig said, if he continues to do that in the Premier League every time he steps on the field, then they might change their mind.”
Analyzing Barcola's Condition
14:00 to 14:22
Discussion on Barcola's cramp and player performance at Anfield.
“they're not difficult to defend against.”
Arsenal's Performance Against Napoli
15:35 to 18:02
Analysis of Arsenal's victory and their tactical approach in the match.
“It's been a fantastic start to the season for our Telteta side.”
Odegaard's Transformation This Season
18:02 to 20:11
Discussion on Odegaard's improved performance and goal-scoring.
“Scored on, I think he got 14 goals or something like that.”
Barcelona's Dominance and Rafinha's Role
20:11 to 22:50
Insights on Barcelona's strong start and Rafinha's impact on the team.
“I think it's a necessity for Arsenal to achieve big things this season.”
Rafinha's Evolution and Leadership
22:50 to 28:00
Exploration of Rafinha's development as a player and team leader.
“when they get in a flow Hansi Fleck at the moment apart from Rafinha and Yamal who else am I going to play today?”
Show all 23 chapters
Rafinha's Leadership and Impact
28:00 to 29:15
Explore how Rafinha's presence and leadership elevate his team's performance.
“And there's also something that I don't think can be overlooked about Rafinha.”
Rafinha vs. Haaland: Different Styles
29:15 to 30:25
Discuss the contrasting styles of Rafinha and Erling Haaland on the field.
“I would imagine today watching him, I reckon he made 30 runs to try and get him behind the opposition.”
Discussion on Ballon d'Or Candidates
30:25 to 30:56
Analyzing Harry Kane's Ballon d'Or candidacy amidst other contenders.
“most important times and that's what he's probably got to learn over the course of the next year or two.”
Debate About Lionel Messi's Ballon d'Or Chances
30:56 to 33:19
A debate on Lionel Messi's merits for the Ballon d'Or considering the World Cup.
“I'm gonna go with Harry Kane, I suppose.”
Preview of Upcoming Champions League Matches
33:19 to 34:26
Preview exciting upcoming matches in the Champions League.
“But Lionel Messi will be in the conversation, given the fact that I actually thought he was better than everybody else in the World Cup.”
Analyzing Team Mentality After a Major Loss
34:26 to 36:08
Discussing the psychological aspects of managing a team's mentality after a significant defeat.
“Real Madrid winning La Liga or Barca winning the Champions League?”
Rafinha's Absence from the Ballon d'Or Shortlist
36:08 to 38:31
Examining Rafinha's exclusion from the Ballon d'Or shortlist and its implications.
“You always say, what's the point of that?”
Controversy Over Substitution Rules
38:31 to 42:00
Debating the fairness and implications of substitution rules in football.
“If you were given control of extra time for just one show and could ban Dan from asking one specific recurring question, what would it be?”
Odegaard's Transformation and Confidence Boost
42:00 to 43:44
Discussion about Odegaard's significant improvement in performance this season.
“Of all the things to get angry about, this is not it.”
Changing Defensive Mindsets
43:44 to 46:08
Exploration of the mindset changes required when switching to a defensive role in football.
“He was complaining about people wasting time when they decided that, oh, you know what, you can take a goal kick from any side you like.”
Llorente's Dog Named Anfield
46:08 to 47:24
A light-hearted discussion about Llorente naming his dog Anfield and related commentary.
“Yeah, I played centre-half for a whole year.”
Controversy Over VAR Decisions
47:24 to 49:20
Debate about the VAR decisions regarding a penalty and foul throws in recent matches.
“You've got a dog called Metropolitano, haven't you?”
NFL Season Predictions and Cowboys Discussion
49:20 to 51:53
Predictions for the NFL season and discussions about the Dallas Cowboys.
“Right, Ali, your Super Bowl pick, of course, NFL starts tonight.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00ESPN's going to Super Bowl 61 and so can you. Enter for a chance to win the trip of a lifetime. Four tickets to Super Bowl 61 plus a three-night stay at Disneyland Resort where you and up to three guests can enjoy the magic of Disney plus the Super Bowl champion cavalcade. Enter at www.espn.com slash sblxi by December 31st, 2026 for your chance to win. No purchase necessary. Ends 12-31-26 at 11-59 p.m. Eastern. Open only to legal residents of the 50 U.S. states and Washington, D.C. who are 18 plus at time of entry. For odds of winning and full official rules, visit www.espn.com slash sblxi. Void where prohibited.
0:34Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas, joined by Ali Moreno, Craig Burley and Stevie Nicklewood. We'll kick things off at Anfield. Liverpool taking on Atletico Madrid. The Atleti who would take the lead at Llorente scoring yet again at Anfield. However, Liverpool would rally, Sobislai and then McAllister giving them a 2-1 lead. One they held as they deservedly got the three points. Stuart Robson joins us. We'll be hearing from Robbo in a moment. but Stevie, you've got to be happy. I'm absolutely happy and I've got to say that if Florian Vert can influence the game the way he did today in the Premier League then things are looking up for Liverpool because I think that's the best he's played in a Liverpool jersey.
1:16You know, all the things that we love. The chance that Barcala had was all about the lovely ball from him. He gave, I think, three or maybe even four superb balls to Isaac in and around the penalty box. He, unfortunately, wasn't at his best and couldn't do an awful lot with it. But in general, I thought Liverpool were way better than what they've shown us in the Premier League. The goal they lost is classic Liverpool right now who can't... And the counter-attack just don't seem to be able to get organised and get themselves in good positions in order to defend properly. But in general, way better.
1:53Way better than what we've seen in the Premier League. Thank God, because there was a lot of shouting coming from behind me.
1:58Steve Nicol:And if that's him happy, I don't know what. Yeah, I mean, we expected him to beat Atleti. We thought they would because Atleti had been pretty poor at the start of the season, got walloped by Athletic Club at the weekend. Alvarez plays, but clearly he's had a very disrupted summer. Some new signings in for Atleti, but they're getting much of a muchness of where they've been in the last year or two. So it was an important win for Liverpool, played some good stuff at times. I think the issues defensively are not going to go... And Arojo certainly fills a void on the right-hand side. But Kierke continues to have his struggles both making decisions defensively and passing the ball and getting forward.
2:44Steve Nicol:They really don't have anything down that left-hand side from a full-back position anymore because he's just got no confidence. But, you know, that being said, they don't have too many options. Semi-Cast come on, they don't have too many options. They played OK today. But, yeah, I think they're still looking at some of the other teams around. There's a lot of work for them still to be done. Why don't we see more of this from Verts? Well, isn't that a good question, Dan? I think what you saw from him today is the freedom to move and go and find the game, go feel the game. And when he feels the game out, then he finds himself in positions in which he can be far more successful.
3:25I think that at times Florian Verz over the last year and a half or so, he's been too far back and trying to cover too many spaces defensively. I think he's better off when he is off the shoulder of the defensive midfielder for the opposing team, whether it's on the right-hand side or on the left-hand side. And when he's able to do that and he gets in those sort of positions, this is where he can find the splitting path. I would also say that there have been times in which Florian Verz has played better than what the results have shown. But because Liverpool haven't been getting the results, then all the attention goes on Florian Verz and you kind of go, well, when is he going to get it right?
3:59I felt today, for example, the play in which he gets on the end of a cross on the back post and Jan Oblak makes a save and that'll be called offside. That's the sort of play that he has to put into the back of the net so that this good performance has actually become great performances. And so while this was a stepping block for Florian Verst, it's something that he can build upon. He needs to continue to find productivity. Assist and goals. Assist and goal. And he has to be consistently. So that hasn't been the case. That's why I think the criticism has come his way. What did you make of Barcola today, Robbo?
4:32He did OK. I mean, he had a couple of good chances, which he didn't take. He showed a lot of pace when he did get on the ball. And he profited when Liverpool were playing with the word we used yesterday, intensity. When they won the ball back, there was space for him to run into. Liverpool actually, when their build-up play wasn't particularly good, it didn't need to be because when they won the ball back, they played with that intensity and all their chances came from that sort of play. So he did OK, but it's a big worry about his calf. But just go back to some of the defending. In the first half, I thought they had a problem because we assumed that Alvarez and Lee Kang-in were going to play up front.
5:02They didn't. They dropped into midfield. And as you saw for the goal and a couple of other chances, they were outnumbered in midfield, Liverpool, and the two centre-halves did nothing. They sat back, they tried to hold a line, there was no pressure on the ball, and they kept on getting played around. So that was the area where Liverpool struggled in the early part of the game. But their intensity was much, much better throughout the game than it has been in previous matches.
5:22Steve Nicol:What did we say about yesterday when we were discussing McAllister? And he's really quite... He came out and said he disappointed when he didn't get a new contract. A bit of a whimpering on the press conference about not getting a contract, really. It was almost begging. And we talked about him being part of a group of players that hadn't played particularly well in the last 12 to 15 months. and we said, you know, we talked about it. I said, there's no point coming, you know, going to a press conference and talking about it isn't going to change Liverpool's mind. It's about what he does on the field.
5:52Steve Nicol:So at least he's taken that on board today, played better, scored a great goal. Still not playing as well as we know he can, but, you know, scored that vital goal. And if his performances improve, he won't have to have these sort of begging press conferences and feeling sorry for himself. And we said that yesterday. Take what Liverpool are doing and if you're frustrated by it, go out on the pitch and make them give you a new deal or you'll get a move to another club. That's where he's going to do his business, not talking about it at the press conference that he was a couple of days ago. He did exactly today what he did the whole season when they won the Premier League.
6:35He broke things up and then he added stuff going forward. And today it was with a goal. And as Craig said, if he continues to do that in the Premier League every time he steps on the field, then they might change their mind. But at the end of the day, nobody apart from Sobers line in the middle of the park has warranted a new contract. They've decided to give Gravenberg one. That means somebody is going to be on the outs. Unfortunately, because of the way he's played, and that's the important thing. And he has to realise that. because one of the things he didn't say, he said a lot of good things yesterday, but one of the things he didn't say was he didn't look at himself in terms of why he didn't get a contract.
7:17He put it all on them as if it was their fault he wasn't getting it. He has to realise he's not got it because of what he's not done on the field. So if he produces consistently what he did today, then he will get one. But right now, it's up to him. He's got two years, hasn't he? It's not two years, 2028. That's when they do it now. Two years is absolutely when they do it. Because they don't want the player getting into the last year.
7:43Steve Nicol:Exactly. But I also think what happened in terms of the salary, you know, Alisson's getting older, big salary. Van Dijk got a huge new salary. Mo Salah got a huge new salary. And I think not only does that make it more difficult for others to get the money that they want, because there's got to be a ceiling and a budget to what Liverpool pay across the board, is the fact that they did give those players who, you know, ultimately you're going right. Is he going to be able to do that again, Mosa? And as it turned out, he couldn't. Now, that situation resolved itself and they got him off the wage bill.
8:17Steve Nicol:He's gone to Trabzonspor in Turkey. But sometimes it doesn't and you're left with a player on a three or four year deal who is in decline and he's on big money. So I think Liverpool have been a little cautious about who they're giving out contracts and big money deals to these days. Julian Alvarez, back in the starting XI, for Atletico Madrid. How did you rate his performance? For all the conversation, and we have plenty of conversation about Julian Alvarez this past summer, and it was the whole, well, he's going to be the out-and-out striker for Barcelona. He's going to play that number nine position.
8:49I can tell you, and it's something that Stewie alluded to, he did not play like a number nine today. He played like a guy who was underneath, kind of playmaker, kind of getting himself in position, sort of away from the centre-backs, kind of in between the defensive midfielder, holding midfielder and the center backs and operating in that space. And he was very effective in that space, certainly in the first half, in which he was able to get turned, plays the ball to Llorente. That's where the goal comes from. Also took the shot from the top of the 18-yard box. We saw some of his qualities today in terms of what he can bring to this team and connecting this team offensively and particularly in the final third.
9:26And those are things that they're going to need from Julian Alvarez, Antetico Madrid does, and Diego Simone does as well. but they're going to need his presence further up the field in the goal and in and around the 18 yard box that's where I think he's most dangerous for Atletico Madrid not in a playmaking role while he had an impact on the game today with the assist let Canning Lee and some of the other guys do the playmaking you get yourself in a position where you can provide the final touch I just think sometimes he falls in love with dropping off and trying to play make rather than being a striker which is, by the way, what Barcelona thought they were getting whenever they were pursuing this guy.
10:02And not another striker, he did not play like that today. Robert, we've seen a lot of Atleti in La Liga. We saw them, of course, go out against Arsenal, kind of a damp squid. In the old days, you would say Atleti, a team you really don't want to face. They're going to make it difficult for you for 90 minutes. They're going to scrap. They're going to time waste. This is very, very much a diluted version of that these days, isn't it? It certainly is. They don't defend as a team as well as they did before. They haven't got the sort of players that would make it difficult for you to play. It was quite easy at times for Liverpool to win the ball back and counter-attack.
10:32Yes, they did cause Liverpool problems, as Ali was saying, with the two centre-forwards or the two front players coming that bit deeper. They actually passed the ball better than they have done in La Liga in recent times. But as a team, I don't think they're that threatening. They're not a particularly frightening team to play against. And you can get at them defensively. So, in my view, they're an average team at the moment. So they're just not uncomfortable to play against, which is what they had been historically under Diego Simone. But this is not a this season sort of thing for Atletico Madrid.
11:04It has been common that Atletico Madrid has been more and more comfortable to play against because they don't go and tackle you in the midfield. They don't force you into areas in which now they're going to put numbers around the ball. They don't defend in 1v1 situations with the sort of tenacity, intensity that you think of Diego Godin, for example. you're not seeing any of that and they're not good enough offensively to outscore teams and so therefore they become the definition of what Stewie's talking about an average team, they have good players that on a day can be very good and on a day they can look good offensively but if on the whole defensively they're not uncomfortable to play against then it's difficult for me to look at Atletico Madrid as a team that is really going to threaten Barcelona really going to threaten Real Madrid or really going to threaten anybody in this competition Is it time for him to go then?
11:54Is it time for the semi-only team? Well, I think it's been time for him to go for a bit. They're not going to get rid of Suga.
11:58Steve Nicol:No, they're not because they're comfortable with top four. They better get used to this. They better get used to this type of game. Yeah, but they'll say, look, we still beat Barcelona last year. We still made it through to the semi-finals. Well, they're comfortable with the top four. Atletico Madrid don't know what they want to be. You hate him so much. I don't hate him at all. I'm just saying, if he doesn't have those types of players, then he's not going to get you anywhere. If they want to start signing the type of player they had previously who do get stuck in, who do close people to, who get in their face and all that, if he goes and signs those players then they might have a chance.
12:35He did get remarried.
12:37Steve Nicol:Well they don't know what they want to be do they? Robbo said and he's right, they passed it decent tonight for them. That was decent for them. But they just don't know what they want to be. Are they a passing team? Not really. because more often than not, they'll go back into the shell. And they're not, as you guys have been talking about, they're not a physical team anymore. You know, Baena, you know, Laurenti, you know, Koki, Barrios, not that big, Alvarez, Kang, the list sort of goes on of these players that are kind of, you know, average in size. They're not going to out-fight any team now and they're certainly not going to out-play the better teams.
13:11Steve Nicol:They're kind of in a juxtaposition. They don't know what they want to be. They're signing players that really aren't in the mould of what has been their success in the past under this manager. And they're trying to be a slightly different, and then he revolves back to trying to be the old Atleti at times, but hasn't got the players to do that. They really are in the middle at the moment of what they... We knew what they used to be. Horrible at times, really good defenders, solid in the midfield. You know, the likes of... Who was the guy up front that played for them? He played for Chelsea. Costa?
13:42Steve Nicol:Diego Costa. Diego Costa. That was a prime example. Classic. They had all these guys at the back in the midfield, and they had some good players as well, don't get me wrong, but they would fight and he would go there and he would make the whole back four. He'd be a nuisance. They don't have any of that anymore. So they're not difficult to play against and they're not, you know, set pieces and stuff like that, they're not difficult to defend against. A couple of things, Barcola was just cramp we're hearing, Stevie. Good. Here we are, good. And Llorente is very good at Anfield. Five games versus Liverpool, five goals, 54 games against other people 5 goals, so there you go Alright Thanks for that As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy but for the ones who always rise to the challenge Grainger has your back From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery they're there to help you keep things running smoothly Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions and because Grainger knows safety is always a priority They're committed to being your partner and protecting both your people and your facilities.
14:48Steve Nicol:Call 1-800-GRANGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. A new podcast series from ABC Audio in 2020 goes inside a case that has captivated the nation. To many people, Luigi Mangione is a modern-day Robin Hood. People were cheering the demise of this person they'd never met, who was a father of two and a husband and had a life and was just doing a job. from the manhunt ending in a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, to what authorities are saying about a possible motive. I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer. Listen to Burden of Proof, Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts.
15:34Arsenal impressed once again in Europe. 1-0 victory away against Napoli. It's been a fantastic start to the season for our Telteta side. a brilliant start of the campaign for Odegaard who scored the only goal and what a goal to give them the three points. Robbo is with us. Robbo, 1-0 flat as Napoli doesn't it? It certainly does. Napoli decided they were going to sit deep right from the start of the game and try and play on the counter-attack and get it up to Hoyland and get Kevin De Bruyne coming off of him and Politano on the right-hand side. They probably did that two or three times in the first half which might have caused one or two problems but overall Arsenal dominated the game as you saw with those chances.
16:13There was a lot of work down that inside right position, crosses coming into the box. And what Arsenal do get is players in the box. When they do get crosses in, they have three or four players in the box. Marino, he was in the side, so he was going to be the main target. He didn't get his head on many, so he had the one big chance, which we've just seen. But overall, Arsenal completely dominated the game and it was a shock that they didn't take the lead much earlier on. A comfortable evening for them, I would say.
16:36Steve Nicol:When you bring Max Allegri in, don't expect entertaining football. expect a team that might be organised be a bit dull to watch and that might get them some success in Italy, I don't know, I couldn't really give a stuff but certainly this was embarrassing the only problem Arsenal had was Arsenal, any sort of complacency at the back that may have arisen, might have cost them a point it's not going to make a difference in this process of 3 million games before the quarter finals or the last 16 or whatever the hell it is their finishing was their only problem. They never killed this sort of poor Napoli side off on the night.
17:16Steve Nicol:And I think what summed them up was even Kevin De Bruyne who was making bad decisions. You know, given the half chances that were falling his way. But from Arsenal, we said it watching the game, it's a bit like a training game that's still quite close because Arsenal haven't punished this poor Napoli side. Do you know how many goals Odegaard scored last season, Stevie? Two. Three? One. Wow. You already got four. this campaign. What's changed?
17:44I would suggest... Oh, he's scoring? Yes, thank you. Well, I would suggest that he's probably changed. He's probably got a different attitude. He's probably looked... I thought he looked a little frustrated a lot of the times last year in particular. He had such a great season a couple of years ago. Scored on, I think he got 14 goals or something like that. One goal last season, that's all I know, Stevie. Well, but that just tells you that he just wasn't himself last year. You don't go from double figures as a midfielder to one, and it's completely the team's fault. You know, I spoke about it all the time.
18:21You know, it's personal responsibility. He looks as though he's had a look in the mirror and sorted himself out. He looks sharper, fitter, stronger. So I would suggest more of this is down to him personally, the way he's playing, than it actually has anything to do with the team around him.
18:36Steve Nicol:He's got a threat in Izzy, hasn't he? which he did have last year. But he's got a threat. He's got a threat to his position, which, you know, sometimes is a kick up the backside. I know as he came in midway through last year, but it's competition for places. And also that goal tonight typified him in a way that maybe last year I thought he was trying to play this tippy-tappy football too much. I think maybe even last year when this ball falls to him, he'll try and play a reverse ball to somebody else. So his end product had to be better. when you get in those positions you've got to use your quality and take the strikes at goal and looking at him at times last year, he was overcomplicating I thought he was overcomplicating it he can play these little passes he's got the ability to do so in and around the penalty area, but you don't have to do it every time particularly if you've walked the space for a strike at goal and you've got a good left foot go and do it, and that's what he's been doing at the start of the season And if Arsenal are going to achieve the things that I think and we all think they're capable of achieving, getting productivity from Martin Odergar is important.
19:38It's critical to their success because they still struggle to get enough goals out of the center forward position, whoever it may be, whoever is in that position, Jokeres and company. And so therefore, goals have to come from elsewhere. And it's not just on set pieces. They have to come from deeper line of midfield. So Declan Wright's got to score a few goals. Martin Odergar's got to score a few goals. Esi's got to score a few goals. You need to get productivity from everywhere because Arsenal are not going to get enough from the center forward position. So therefore, it's not just a nice thing to have Martin Odegaard scoring goals.
20:11I think it's a necessity for Arsenal to achieve big things this season.
20:14Steve Nicol:I think when Gimenez is up to full speed, if he does play with Rice and Odegaard, which I think is going to be the plan, I think that will take a little bit of pressure off of Odegaard as well because it won't always be looking at him in tight matches to create something because you've got Solas, you've got Saka, and you've got, you know, Rice is more likely to be getting in the box and doing all that sort of stuff. But Gimenez is a player that can also pick a pass in a tight space as well. So that just gives you another string to your bow and might even create a little bit more space for the likes of Odegaard whenever Gimenez is up to full speed in starting.
20:53There's no question as well. Arsenal this season have got more players in the box as well. You know, we're watching tonight. You've got the two full-backs. You know, creating that chance that Incappe put over the bar. And so if you can get out Odegaard on the ball, just outside the box, the more options he has with the ability he has, then the more goals and chances they'll create. More Champions League talk to come on Extra Time as we answer your questions. Frank's not on today, so the editors should be OK. And that is available on YouTube.
21:28Barcelona in the early game thrashed final by five goals to one. Once again, Rafinha, the standout player for Barca. That is 19 goal difference, 22 goals in total. It's the best start to the season since the 25-26 campaign. 22 goals through five games, most since 1950. and Rafinha is the first Barcelona player ever to score in the team's first five games, or not ever, since Cesar in 1950. Cesar? Robbo, you remember Cesar. How does that compare to his run? I don't think his movement was quite as good as Rafinha's. Rafinha's movement, again, was absolutely magnificent. For that second goal, he does it so quickly.
Read the full transcript
22:12He comes one step back, then spins in behind. People don't see it. There was many, many times today that he made runs and the Barcelona players didn't see it and he'd have been in and he broke the line, he got upset. But again, Barcelona, their football was outstanding. Rodri and Pedri dominated the midfield, as you would expect. Jamal had his moments, he overplayed a couple of times, but in general he played some great football. Adiemi did quite well from that left-hand side. And Khabarci once again showed what a world-class defender he is. He had to cover a lot of space because Feyenoord did have their moments when they did break the press.
22:44but Kabasi kept on getting round on the cover making interceptions it was another good performance by Barcelona they are unstoppable when they get in a flow
22:54Steve Nicol:Hansi Fleck at the moment apart from Rafinha and Yamal who else am I going to play today? Gordon, Adeyemi shall I play Omo? shall I play Fermin who was brilliant at the Mestaya at the weekend? the list sort of goes on now are they strong at the back? they've started great they've defended decent this season I haven't played anybody worth their salt. But, you know, 22 goals, as you mentioned, five every week or every game at the moment, it just seems they're creating for fun. And his sharpness, Rafinha, the second goal, the movement, the first goal, the sharpness, the, you know, dilly-dallying, waiting on the ball bouncing.
23:30Steve Nicol:He's in there, he wins it, and then he drops two players. That kind of sums him up at the moment. He's been absolutely brilliant. He's very much in the conversation as the best player in the world at the moment, isn't he? Absolutely he is. And rightfully so. And while some may have questioned, and I was one of them, well, who's going to play number nine for Barcelona? I'll tell you who's going to play number nine for Barcelona. That would be Rafinha. And the way he's playing the position, he's given a clinic on how to play the position. And it's not a traditional way to play number nine. Sometimes he appears from deep.
24:03Sometimes he runs in behind. Sometimes he goes out wide. But what matters is that when the ball is played into him, whether it's in behind or it's underneath or it's a combination, his first touch usually gets him away from defenders and now puts him in a position in which he can go to goal or he can decide. He can dictate what's happening. And he's dictating everything in the attack for them in the final third. And more importantly, more importantly than anything else, the final touch. He's finishing right now world-class, which hasn't always been the case with Rafinha. At least we haven't seen it nearly as effective, as efficient as we are seeing it early this season.
24:40But he right now is given a clinic how to play the position, feels comfortable, feels confident, and Barcelona benefit from all his movement. All his movement creates all sorts of spaces for everybody else. And that's when you see Dani Olmo, Karina De Gemi, Fermín López, Pedri, Laminya Mal. This team, how to stop them? Good luck. Because to Craig's point, they've played five matches so far this season. Four out of those five matches have scored five goals. So while we can focus on some of the things that they don't do defensively, this is what we know. They're going to score goals. And we thought that they would even without a center forward, but not to the rate and the productivity level that we're seeing so far.
25:22They have been outstanding. He has been outstanding.
25:24Steve Nicol:What I didn't understand, sorry, Stevie, was when he had his best season on the left-hand side, was Hansi Flick was supposedly looking to move him to the number 10 role. Yeah. Which you're saying, well, that's him kind of the same at the moment. and he's more central, but he wouldn't have been because you'd have a Lewandowski or a Ferran Torres in that space. And so he doesn't have that space to make those clever runs into because it's too congested. So I never quite understood that. Now, maybe this is out of a necessity. Maybe the fact that he's playing as a striker now is because Torres is not there, because Lewandowski's gone.
26:00Steve Nicol:But for whatever reason it is, it's working absolutely brilliantly. but I never quite understood the odds to move him from that left-hand side when they did have two strikers already there, just congesting the whole place up. I don't think that would have worked really well for him. But what is working is being the main guy. Being the main guy and then having other people working off him. It's been absolutely fantastic. His finishing is absolutely on a par with Mbappe and Haaland. And the one thing I would say about him over the two of them his runs and the timing of his runs is better than the other two no question and Bappi's is all about pace and power generally and Haaland I mean Haaland's not sneaking around anywhere Rafinha though just turns up I would say that part of his game is better than the other two He's better than any of them at the moment isn't he?
26:53I think so
26:53Steve Nicol:I don't know is there anyone better in the world than him at the moment? I mean you can see why Ferran Torres is gone because he's got that he's got movement I wouldn't say he's as good as Rafinha's, but he certainly is quick or there or thereabouts. He works hard. He's got all that sort of, the facets that Rafinha has, in a sense, about all the movement and dropping off and then spinning in behind, but he doesn't have, he scored a goal in the World Cup final. The winner in the World Cup final is not to be sniffing that, but he doesn't have that consistency of finish in the final third. He's very hot and cold, whereas you just feel Rafinha, you're going to have that at the moment, anyway, that consistency.
27:33And what separates Rafinha right now from Mbappe, from Haaland, from whoever, is that it's not only he's giving you that productivity offensively. Defensively, he is the first guy that goes and presses. He is the first guy that dictates how this team is going to play defensively. So it is a message to a guy like Kylian Mbappe, you know what? You can score a bunch of goals, and you can also do a work defensively that helps the team and sets the team up for success. And there's also something that I don't think can be overlooked about Rafinha. Leadership. We saw it. Yeah, we did. We saw it live.
28:10His presence on the field makes a difference for this team. And how he directs traffic, how he talks to people in and around him during the course of 90 minutes, and the leadership that he presents for this team, it's also something that a guy like Mbappe doesn't seem to bring to Real Madrid. So when we're talking about the big picture of the totality of a performance, Rafinha right now, yes, to your point, best player in the world. He's dragging them, not Yamal.
28:35Steve Nicol:Exactly, yeah. You know, in football, such a funny game, we've talked about this. He was out the door a couple of years ago. Had they been able to get the Nico Williams transfer through, which they tried, but they were having issues, and they couldn't, I think it was 60 million, and he'd just come off a pretty good summer, then Rafinha was out the door. Flick loves it, gave him the captain's armband. And by the way, Nico Williams is a good player, but he's not half the player that Rafinha is. So you've gone from a player who Barcelona and you know what, this step up from Leeds is maybe just a little bit too much.
29:04Steve Nicol:I think we'll make a change here. That doesn't happen. And then all of a sudden, two years later, you've got a player that we're talking about as being the most informed player probably on the planet at the moment. Last word to you, Robbo. I would imagine today watching him, I reckon he made 30 runs to try and get him behind the opposition. You know, not many centre forwards, not many players want to keep making those runs. and he doesn't make them at three-quarter pace or half pace. He's sprinting in behind. He comes short and sprints in. He times them perfectly. The ball wasn't always played.
29:35And you go talking about Erland Haaland. Erland Haaland says that he only needs to touch the ball 15 times in a game. He doesn't really want to get involved in the play. Rafinha is doing everything and still scoring goals. You can still get involved in the play and keep making runs and still score your goals.
29:49Steve Nicol:Oh, he's bashing Haaland now. Haaland bashing already. Just a word on Laminya Mahal as well. Robbo with some PlayStation stuff at times it is I mean he's got to be careful that at times so you know a great coach that I worked under always said don't show your trump card all the time you play it simple you play then when you need to when you're in around the box and he wasn't talking to me by the way you go past somebody you go and show your magic so that's when you don't keep trying to do it when it's not important to do it do it at the most important moments sometimes play simple sometimes play simple then you go again and then do it at the most important times and that's what he's probably got to learn over the course of the next year or two.
30:29Barcelona are perfect so far this season. Can they continue it this weekend? Well, you can watch it live on the ESPN app. Barca against Levante is our early game on Sunday. Saturday sees Real Madrid take on Real and then late on Sunday it is Real Sociedad against Atleti.
30:48Speaking of the pan on door, Ali and Stevie's first show since the announcement was made of shortlist. Who would you give it to, Ali?
31:00I'm gonna go with Harry Kane, I suppose. Look, what he did with Bayern Munich last season, even by his standards, was historically good. And while I don't think they won as many things as they could have, I do think that the performance of Harry Kane is worthy and that list certainly of winning the Ballon d 'Or. Because all the other guys, is they put together half of a performance. They put together a club season, but not quite the World Cup that they wanted, or vice versa. Didn't have the club season and had a great World Cup in the case of Rodri. I think Harry Kane, I think, had both. And while England didn't win and Bayern Munich didn't win, I still think that Harry Kane and his performances were more consistent than everybody else's over the course of the whole season.
31:51I don't think there's a clear winner. No. And I don't think Harry Kane was particularly great in the World Cup. And Rodri had a bang. I don't think anybody's pitching for Rodri. No, but, I mean, really, you could... I think that's just a lot of... You could argue for probably four or five of them. But you could also argue against them.
32:12Steve Nicol:61 goals is pretty good in anybody's book. Aye. How would you get it to then, Steve? I don't know. I honestly don't know. I really would have to think a long and other about it. Why don't you go in the Don Bandwagon and give it to Fabian Ruiz? Listen, if Harry Kane won it, I wouldn't complain. Okay. But again, as I said, I'm not sure it's an obvious choice. It's just not. I'm detecting a lack of interest in this. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that are going to say Lionel Messi giving the performances in the World Cup. And in the short list, that was not mentioned there. No. You get some good odds on that.
32:54Well, I'm just saying the shortlist had players like Ferran Torres, and the only reason he's in there because he's scored the game-winning goal in the World Cup. And if we're putting that much weight into a World Cup performance, because Rodri is third in this list, and Rodri barely played last season in the club. And so if we're putting that much weight into the World Cup, then I don't think it's crazy to say, or at least have the conversation. I don't think he should win it. But Lionel Messi will be in the conversation, given the fact that I actually thought he was better than everybody else in the World Cup.
33:25But there you go. You can see what Craig said and what Robbo said on our show yesterday. That is available now over on YouTube. What did you say? I'm Frank. You'll have to watch. I'll have to watch, then. Hey, big games tomorrow as Champions League spread over three days as Manchester United make their debut against Sabah. Wow. Who's Sabah? Sabah. Bayern against Bodo Glint. That means you don't know. Meanwhile, it's the other team that catch the eye. We'll be talking about that on the next edition of Xhaka's here. I feel like I haven't seen Xhaka before. He's in tomorrow. Are you in tomorrow as well?
34:02Aye. Oh, yeah, you're in.
34:04Steve Nicol:You need to find, well, you better know who Xhaba is tomorrow. I think I might have found out by then. Find some more Luis Xhaba's as well. I'll find you a couple. I'll find you a couple. Xhaba's over. That brings us to the end of the show. Stay tuned. Extra Time's next.
34:24Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Robbo's here. Robbo, what will happen first? Real Madrid winning La Liga or Barca winning the Champions League?
34:38That's an interesting question and a good one. I'm hoping it's Barcelona to win the Champions League, but I still have slight doubts that they might have one bad day, which is going to cost them. So I'm going to go with Real Madrid to win La Liga. Not this season, but maybe next season. Why are you hoping that Barca win the Champions League? You're a former Arsenal player. Maybe you'd like them to be successful in the competition for the first time ever. Oh, I'd like them to have a good go, but I would like to see Barcelona because I think they're the best team to watch. And everybody would like to see Barcelona play the outstanding football they're playing at the moment.
35:12Stevie, as a manager, what do you say to your team at full time after they were 2-0 up at half time and conceded 6 in the second half? I probably wouldn't say anything. So it's Chelsea-Leeds today. I'll probably avoid speaking. Usually a good thing. If somebody had been particularly woeful, they might get picked out. But I would generally try and leave it until the next time we meet. and then we'd have a meeting. What would be the emphasis of the meeting? He loves a meeting, he does. Just point out where we went wrong and why. And the why would be more important. Because generally when you're 2-0 up and you end up losing six, then it's down to the mentality.
36:01Or people have given up or... Yeah, it's not... Yeah, not good.
36:05Steve Nicol:You always mourn when there's a meeting around here. Not that we have many meetings. You always say, what's the point of that? I'm sorry. You like a meeting? No, no, I'm not. I'm not the one. Well, if he was in it, the meeting would last longer than if he wasn't in it. Let's put it that way. Well, I'm not the one convening a meeting. And having all these players going, what's the point of this? It's just what he does now. What's the point of this, having a meeting? It's not about that at all. Having a meeting should not be, oh, here we go, we've got another meeting. If you're a manager and you're having all these meetings, then you're in the wrong spot.
36:44Because you're clearly not doing your job. If you need to have meetings all the time, you're in the wrong job. So when you have a meeting, people should know exactly. People are like, ooh, it's a battle. And that would be why, generally, in those meetings, somebody gets picked up or a few get picked up. Well, you could have done it without the meeting. No. Ali, thoughts on Rafinha not included in the Ballon d 'Or top list? Was he not in the 30s? No, and I'm totally okay with that. Rafinha struggled with injuries all of last season. Didn't have a good World Cup either. Struggled with injuries in the World Cup.
37:16So he doesn't deserve to be on the list given the performances. Now, I think what all of us can agree upon is that this shortlist could be a whole lot shorter. We don't need to talk about Marco Curella being part of the shortlist. Yeah, we there's only maybe five players or so that could be part of the conversation. Who's the who's the Mexican who scored all the goals in Saudi Arabia? That's Julian Quiñones. Yes, that'll be Football Americas tomorrow. Oh, absolutely. And let me just say he shouldn't be in any list. Oh, don't they kill you tomorrow? I'm sorry. I apologize for all the Americas. All I'm all I'm suggesting is that this whole 30 list is too long, too big, and it's including players that Sadio Mane is in this list.
38:03And I can go on and on. Ferran Torres is in this list. They're not winning the Ballon d 'Or. And so why are we going through this step? Get to the top three, top five, and then have a conversation about them. As for Rafinha, he didn't deserve to be on the list. But if these other guys are going to be in it, might as well put him in because there shouldn't be a list where Marco Curella is part of it or Ferran Torres is part of it and Rafinha is not part of it as the best players in the world. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Question for Craig. If you were given control of extra time for just one show and could ban Dan from asking one specific recurring question, what would it be?
38:42So your pet hates are Ballon d 'Or, Ronaldo or Messi. I'm in a Louis Suarez, his other. That's very niche. Club World Cup, set-piece coaches. What else do you hate? That's a long list. No, just like the Ballon d 'Or. I can definitely find 30 topics over the last few years. You know what?
39:03Steve Nicol:One that annoys me is you get three really good players, three other really good players and say, who's the better? Right. Just annoys me. OK. It's like, you know, right. OK. Who's the better? Who's the better? And it's like... What did the panel make of Real Madrid being down to 10 men because of a slow substitution? Brilliant. This was, of course, because Venetia's student didn't come off within 10 seconds. And a man got very angry about this today. I think it's a garbage rule. So then the substitute had to wait for a minute to come on? Yeah, that's garbage. Why didn't you like it? Well, look, I understand that there are certain times when players will try and waste time.
39:50And I understand that we try and get rid of it. but you cannot punish a team for a minute because a guy took more than 10 seconds to get off the field. I mean, that's just absolute garbage. Why? It's the law. You know it's 10 seconds. Yeah, but it shouldn't be the law. You are correct. That's what they've decided. But in my opinion, it's an absolute garbage law and it shouldn't be at all garbage. So you don't want to... Because the punishment is too strong. Oh, 100 % it's too strong. How about if the team lead and the guy takes too long and you get off, you add an extra two minutes? So what's the difference?
40:32Well, the difference is you're not playing against ten men. They're playing against ten men. What's it, just get off the pitch? Yeah, you don't get it. You don't get it. I'm telling you. You don't get it. Go on, Robbo. I'm telling you, Dan, if Stevie was in the inter dugout and Vinicius Junior was walking off the field and taking more than 10 seconds, Stevie would be running across to the fourth official saying, hey, he's got to stay off for a minute, that bloke. He can't. Come on, he's taken too long to get off. If the boot was on the other foot, Stevie would love it. Hypocrite. Do you have the same problem as Stevie?
41:09Of course I would, and that position I would. It's weird, but all universally yesterday we said, it's a great rule. It's not a great rule at all. But all it takes is for Vinny to speed up a little bit. He doesn't have to, like, sprint off the field. We just keep adding and adding all these rules, right? At the end, we're going to end up playing indoor. It's going to be indoor with people running on, running off. The game can't stop for more than five seconds. It's like helter-skelter all over the shop. If we keep adding stupid rules like this, that's what we're going to end up at. But this is what we saw in the Champions League final, Arsenal wasting time last year, and it frustrated everyone.
41:43And this is just surely improving the game. We want to see more football. I am not against improving the game. I just think this particular rule is absolute garbage. All right? Not just garbage. Absolutely. Absolutely. With a stare. Yes. With a stare as well.
42:04Of all the things to get angry about, this is not it. I'm not angry. I just dislike it. I'm just showing you how much I dislike it. Based on the past few weeks, who's had the most noticeable boost in form between last season and this season, Robbo? Odegaard, Parma or Torres? I think you could say Odegaard probably more than anybody else because we were talking about him in the show. He was, last season, he was lacking confidence. He passed it square and backwards. He went too deep. He didn't really create too much. He was a liability at times. He had the ball taken off him, nicked off him. He didn't look confident.
42:44He sulked a little bit as well, although he tried to work hard. He just wasn't effective. The start of this season, and it started really at the World Cup. That's when he got his confidence back at the World Cup for Norway. He was outstanding, particularly in the game against Brazil, I think it was. And that's given him the confidence this season. He's playing slightly higher up the field and he's passing forwards. Makes him a totally different player.
43:05Steve Nicol:You don't like that new law as well where you... Where I was just... You've got to take the throw in, was it five seconds? I don't like that new law where the goalkeeper can't pick it up from a back pass. You like the throw in, you see the referee going five, four, you've got to have the throw in back in to avoid time wasting. Do you? Yeah, you don't like that new law. Don't look at me. I don't care. You cared about the other one. Well, I'm selective in what I care about. Craig, were you ever called off? And by the way, it just came to me. You know the one Lordy changed? All these so-called geniuses.
43:49He's leaning. He was complaining about people wasting time when they decided that, oh, you know what, you can take a goal kick from any side you like. Talk about playing into the hands of somebody that wants to waste time. But you've got to do everything. Obviously, what they started doing was going as far away as they can. Yeah, but now if you waste time, it's a corner, isn't it? I'm just telling you, these geniuses come up with all these ideas and they're not quite as smart as you think they are. Right. But like, like yourself. Craig, were you ever called on for emergency defender duty like Declan Rice was today?
44:27If so, what do you have to change about your mindset from your normal midfield duties?
44:34Steve Nicol:Yeah, well, I always like to play centre-half a couple of times. And what does that do to your mindset? Figure out, make sure you're not playing everybody onside. I had to play centre-half a few times. I played sweeper for Chelsea and for Scotland. And then wing-back, so that was outwith. But centre-half was tricky for me. What was hard about it? Because you don't want to... It's very easy if you're not a natural in that position to get yourself in a very bad position defensively. So you've got to be knowing what your centre-half partner's doing, whether he's squeezing up or dropping off or whatever.
45:10Steve Nicol:So you're on your toes in that position. Because if you're not a natural athlete, you've just got to be thinking a lot. You've got a lot to think about, Stevie, haven't you? Aye. If you're not a natural defender, going back in there... Yeah, it's a different ball game. This is where you, when people talk about you, Stevie, is that you could play both positions comfortably. Yeah, but I started my career as a defender and then progressed forward, which is why I could then go back and do both.
45:49Defending's, it's not about being the biggest or the quickest or the strongest, it's about being the smartest in that. position. That's why we always talk about people like Hansen and Beckenbauer who always came off with a clean kit. Ramos. Because they just used their brain. Yeah, Ramos. Because they just used their brain. World-class defender. Ravo, did you have to play defence? Yeah, I played centre-half for a whole year. I played in midfield and I played at right-back. But I was just trying to think. I can never remember a game where I was changed from one position to the other. I started in several different positions but never changed within a match to go into another area so it didn't really affect me mentally I suppose because I knew that's where I was playing for that game.
46:35Ask Stevie about his feelings about Llorente naming his dog Anfield. He's got five goals hasn't he at Anfield? Yeah, that's fine. So what? Yeah, have you been got a problem with that?
46:47Steve Nicol:I presume that's a sarcastic question, yeah. I've got no idea. So is there a dog named Anfield or not? I assume there must be a dog called Anfield. Yes, there is. Yes, his dog is really called Anfield. Unfortunately, in the commentary in England, we must have heard it about 20 times that he had a dog called Anfield because he scored four goals up to that point. Oh dear, Robbo. Name names, who was the commentator? Oh dear, how? Oh, I think we spoke about him many, many times. We spoke about him many, many times at the World Cup. How good he was and how good he got it. You've got one. You've got a dog called Metropolitano, haven't you?
47:29Steve Nicol:Simeone. Yeah, the next one's going to be called Simeone. Simeone is going to call it Simeone. Did anyone see this? I can kick it and enjoy it. Sorry, we don't condone kicking dogs. Oops.
47:48Can you ask a question, Dan, please? Oh, Pete was obsessed about this this morning. I don't understand. It shouldn't have been a penalty on Alisson versus Forrest, but they also said VAR was right not to intervene. This was on those...
48:01Steve Nicol:Oh, yeah. This is the stupid one where they go, oh, because of the foul throw. No? No, I don't think it... Is that a different one? No. No, it's the same play, but they were not addressing the foul throw. No, they're saying that the contact from Alisson wasn't strong enough to warrant a penalty, but it also wasn't strong enough for VAR to intervene. Right, but it all came from a player having a foul throw. That's got nothing to do with the conversation. That typifies where we are. Stevie, do you have an opinion on that? Sometimes you feel as though they're making it up as they go along. There was another one, there was a similar one.
48:44Well, in fact, there was a more obvious one in the Liverpool-Ipswich game when Gakpo got melted after he played a pass in the penalty box. I mean, it just seems like they're making it obvious to go along. And in that particular one that you're talking about, they had the cheek to say at the end of it, because it wasn't clear and obvious. Right. But it's the admission that we're wrong, but not that wrong. We've had a lovely day.
49:12Steve Nicol:They're just making themselves look even more stupid He got that decision wrong So it shouldn't have been a penalty So the referee's got the wrong decision But we can't The two things don't go together Actually what they said was Because it wasn't a clear and obvious error That's why they didn't get the referee to go to the monitor To check to see if it was a penalty or not Yeah Yeah. That's an absolute lot of nonsense. What about the foul throw? Which one? What about Anfield the dog? Right, Ali, your Super Bowl pick, of course, NFL starts tonight. Okay. Seahawks, Patriots. Your Super Bowl picks for the season, and are you worried that every pundit thinks the Cowboys are going to be really good this season?
50:00Yeah, well... Ali's a big Cowboys fan. Yeah, well, they do that about the Cowboys all, every single year. And we are guilty of that in this network in which the cowboys sell they're an interesting team and people pay attention because of the cowboys and so therefore we somehow people feel enamored or in some way forced to kind of talk up the cowboys and let me just tell you i haven't been a cowboys fan for over 30 years now um that doesn't pay off right but i'm picking the cowboys baby to win the super bowl well what else am I going to do? Let's just get to the playoffs and then hope after that.
50:41Why are
50:42Steve Nicol:you even talking about the NFL when the producer supports the Jets? Well that's exactly why. They're not winning the Super Bowl I can tell you that much. He's saying this is our year. For what? To be absolutely crap again. Do you have any NFL interest Robbo? I go back to the 1980s when Chicago Bears were the top team. And I had breakfast with Mike Ditka in the Doubletree down the road once. Wow. And he still talks about that to his friends. He's never been back. What they need to do with the fullbacks. He had no idea who I was. I don't believe my Ditka is with us. Oh. Yes. Oh, there we are. I'm not having that conversation.
51:28That's it. ESPN FC returns your screens to Paris. Well, he was a lovely bloke. Yeah. Stevie will be here. We'll be a bit happier tomorrow. Dick is still alive! Dick is still alive! Breaking news! Dick is still alive! He's not here. He's not here with us. ESPN FC for your...
51:49Steve Nicol:What? What? What about Dick there?
From the publisher
The ESPN FC crew break down Wednesday's matches in the UEFA Champions League starting the Liverpool's win over Atletico Madrid as Alexis Mac Allister grabs the winner and Wirtz impresses Steve Nicol. Then, a reaction to Arsenal's away win at Napoli as Martin Odegaard continues to light up the stat sheet and lead Arsenal to a strong start. Then, a look at red-hot Barcelona as they continue to fire goals, asking if Raphinha is the best player in the world right now?
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