Macclesfield's Magic of the FA Cup

0:04Welcome to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas. Alongside me Stevie Nichol. Here is a sentence I don't say very often or indeed ever. will kick off today's show in Macclesfield as they were taking on Crystal Palace, the defending champions, of course, and it would be the hosts who will win by two goals to one in what was being called the upset of the century. Macclesfield, the first long league club to eliminate the FA Cup defending champions in 117 years. Palace, the first top flight club to get knocked out of the FA Cup versus the club five levels below it in the English League Premier League.

0:36Clubs are separated by 117 places in the league. pyramid john 117 places between you the first time since 1908 that a non-league side has knocked the holders out of the fa cup try and sum up your emotions for me right now no you know we spoke earlier and we spoke about hope and having a chance and but i never i never really believed that that was just me hoping but wow the boys were absolutely outstanding and the way the performance they've put on wow you know we can give them a little bit on the side and help them in that sense, but they've got to cross that right you're not doing, I couldn't be any prouder.

1:12You scored the first goal and the scenes were absolutely incredible. Could you even have dreamt of that moment? I, no I have, I have to be honest. I was up till four o 'clock, not last night, night before, just thinking what I was going to do. But it wasn't a goal. But yeah, no, the lads, the ball that does put in exquisite on my head. That's my best foot, my head, like I said. So, no, yeah no words to be honest for me who bought this club five years ago I never ever would have ever imagined this to have happened today from Rightmove yeah do you know what I bought it from Rightmove after four days drinking and can't remember really buying it look where we are now it's incredible pending another four days drinking I think I've already planned the Ibiza trip already with the boys is that the plan?

2:01well hope not not right now Oliver, a really disappointing day. How are you feeling right now, stood in front of me? Disappointed, embarrassed. I've been involved in many games as a player and as a manager. I think this is one of the worst I've seen. Congratulations to Macclesfield for the win. we didn't show anything we didn't show any kind of quality we didn't show anything and that's again it's my responsibility I'm the miniature and for me it's clear what I've seen today so there will be, we have to change things and there will be definitely some changes and this will start with the next training session What a lot of fun that training session will be I imagine Julian Aron is at the valley for us we'll be talking about Charles and Chelsea a little bit later on but this without a doubt Jules the biggest story of the weekend.

3:04Yeah I mean one of the biggest stories in in HF Cup history really you mentioned the stats Dan this never happened before really as embarrassing as this could be for Palace and Glasner kind of mentioned it a little bit it's all about Michael Svilt let's be honest John Rooney who's when Rooney's little brother younger brother doing an amazing job in there in the National League, they beat Slough in the last round and then this time it's Crystal Palace, he's the holders. It was an incredible occasion and atmosphere, really, and I'm not sure if Oliver Glasner probably knew where Macclesfield was before today.

3:35Now, I think there's a lot of people around the world who know where it is. Near Manchester, wait. Don't wait that, what you said there. What Glasner said? Yeah. Which bit? Right at the very end. It'll all change starting on the first training session. Right. But late, that's your job. Your job is to smell when things are not right. Your job is to figure out if your team are actually up for a game or not. That's part of your job. It's not giving it the big I am right now. No, I'm going to put my foot down now. That's absolutely not the answer at all. It's too late. Jules, of course, Cluster has been linked to the likes of Manchester United especially over the last week considering what happened to Amerine.

4:19Does this affect that narrative at all?

4:24I don't think so. Maybe not the game today in itself. However, this season has been a struggle. Let's be honest here. Apart from the odd good result and good performance from Palace, overall, they've been so disappointing, so underwhelmed. And, OK, maybe they didn't get the investment and the support from the board during the summer where they should have had more new recruits, more signing that the squad is far too thin to play in the conference league and in the league and have the similar results to last season however his job like stevie said is to find solutions to problems that each team can bring against crystal palace of the scheduling and the fixtures and all that kind of stuff and he's struggling himself this season is not it's not as good as he's been in the last 18 months or so well you know prior to this season the players are not either.

5:12There's clearly something missing this year compared to last season and that's also on him. Fans loving it though, Stevie. Obviously it's a cliche, magic of the cup, and obviously it's been diluted over the years, but still for the fans who are in attendance and the party that's going to happen tonight, it's brilliant. I've been on this end of it. I've played for an on-league side, the beta league team, and just for that night, you're You're as good as anybody on the planet. So, yeah, I mean, they were celebrating all night. I mean, not just the players, but every single person that was at that ground and probably ones that wished they had gone.

5:48So, Macclesfield through.

5:54Another disappointing day for Spurs and Thomas Frank. They were so bad in the first half against Aston Villa, who took a thoroughly deserved 2-0 win into the break. Better from the hosts in the second half, but too little, too late. Spurs out of the FA Cup and former Tottenham Hotspur player Jürgen Klinsmann not impressed at all. You have that chance to get back into your flow in a certain way with an FA Cup tie at home against Aston Villa. You cannot come up with a first half like they did today. And then rescuing it just in the second half is just simply not enough. I mean, I was pleased, you know, they created more, they had moments, you know, where they could even have a tie at the end.

6:37But it's not enough, you know, there was not enough desperation, urgency, aggressiveness that you would need in order to get through an FA Cup tie, which is always every game in an FA Cup is a final, it's knockout, you know, and you have to be nasty, you have to be hugely aggressive, You have to kind of dictate the level of aggression on the field. And they missed that completely in the first half. And they did better second half. But it's not enough. You cannot kind of get out of such a prestigious competition in that way. Jurgen Klinsmann, by the way, no Craig Burley. This is a man who sees every glass half full, yet pulling no punches there.

7:23Just shows how frustrated he is with Spurs. and indeed I think it sums up the feelings of the Spurs fans at the moment. And they have every right to do so. I mean, you could see in the first half what the set-up was. It was get behind the ball. The only thing is when you do that, there has to be some sort of confrontation eventually. Somebody has to step towards the ball and then whoever's in charge of that, everybody fills in behind. Spurs didn't do that. They just stayed off and stepped off. So regardless of how many men you get behind the ball, you still have to do the basics defensively. And they didn't do it.

8:00And the first goal absolutely showed you the problem. Right through the pipe, nobody moving, nobody closing. And all of a sudden you go in at halftime and you're 2-0 down. How condescending, how low have you got, Jules, when you've got people at the end of the game going, well, at least they tried in the second half.

8:19Yeah, I think it's terrible, really. And I know we can look at the squad and say, there's a lack of creativity for sure there's probably a lot of quality in the squad no problem however I'm sorry but Thomas Frank has been in charge since July the 1st we are now January the 10th he still doesn't know what his best 11 is injuries or not injuries it doesn't matter he keeps chopping and changing all the time there's no intentions with the ball there's nothing I can't believe that we sat here again and it's the same nothing with the ball in that first half Jürgen is right. How can you come out in the FA Cup at home, considering the bad run of results that you're on right now?

8:54I think he's two wins in ten in all competitions, something like that. And put up that kind of performance. I think he shows you that Thomas Frank cannot get those players on his side. He cannot get the fans on his side either. And it's not the first time that we see, OK, maybe glimpses of what they can do five minutes there, ten minutes there. But overall, over 90 minutes, it's so poor. It's so disappointing. And he's the one to blame. the players for sure have their power of responsibilities, the squad structure and built for sure. But at the end of the day, this is still a better squad than the result that they're having right now.

9:26And that's on him. Is he going to make the end of the month, Jules?

9:31I think he will. And I guess the only positive in a way for Thomas Frank and Spurs is that Vinay Van Ketasham, who is the CEO right now, who was the CEO of Arsenal, who was there when Mikel Arteta arrived, he actually recruited Mikel Arteta. and when things didn't go well at the beginning for Arteta. I'm not saying that Thomas Frank is as good as Arteta and can take this club as far as Arteta has taken Arsenal. However, Vinay was patient with Arteta and I think he will show more patience for Thomas Frank. That patience is not going to be forever though and I think Thomas Frank has to very quickly try to turn things over by recruiting more players in January and they're working on it but yet it's 10 days in and they've got no one apart from that young left back from Santos, Sousa, who should come.

10:15But that's not the answer. That's not the solution either. So they will be patient. But Thomas Frank has to find something that he hasn't found yet to make sure that to try to convince Vinay Venkita-Shan, the owners, and the fans and the players, more importantly, that he's still the right guy for the job. The big problem is the results are terrible and the football's terrible as well. So what he has to do is look at that second half. Because there's no question that's their best half of football since he got there. So he has to look at it and say, what did we do that we can replicate the next time we step on the field?

10:50And you can't turn around and say, well, it doesn't count because it was against Wolves or West Ham or a championship team. It was against a proper team. It was against Villa. They put them under severe pressure. It was against a team that were 2-0 up, though. Does that not make a difference? Well, it sort of helps Spurs in some ways because you're always going to go out in the second half and not hold on to what you have but be a little bit more safer than you were in the first half. But at the end of the day, it's still Aston Villa, the team that's sitting, what, third in the league? So every single thing, he has to figure out what they did well.

11:23How do I replicate that? Because everything else pretty much they've done all season has been poor, other than sometimes they've defended well. Because you can't really say they've done well going forward in many games, but they did in this second half, and it was a completely different vibe, completely different game. So if I'm Thomas Frank, I'm figuring out what did we do in this second half that we can replicate and then we can start building again. If you're Villa, surely FA Cup is your main priority, isn't it, Jules? I understand the Europa League, you and I, Emery's connection with that competition.

11:55But if I'm a Villa fan, wouldn't it be great to get to Wembley and win the FA Cup in May?

12:02From a fan's point of view, probably you're right. They were in the semi-final last season. We were there. They were so disappointed in that semifinal against Palace, outplayed completely by the system tactically that Glasner employed for sure. From a club's point of view, the Champions League are finishing top four, top five, because fifth place is going to take you to the Champions League. It is by far the priority here. And I know fans, players, Emery, ideally a trophy, lifting that FA Cup, having the bus parade and everything you want is wonderful. It's a great experience, great something to achieve in your career.

12:36But from a club point of view, right now, they need that Champions League money so badly. They can't again settle for Europa League or Conference League. They need the Champions League. They need the money of the Champions League. And for them, finishing in that top five is really indispensable. Then, of course, if you can go find the Europa League, that would be wonderful. If you can go back with the FA Cup again, go find the FA Cup like last year, but just a step further or two and win it, great, no problem. But that can't take them away from the idea that finishing in the top Champions League places is by far the most important financially for the club.

13:14We're Villa fans. Because everyone, Joe said there, is spot on. You know, if you're involved at Villa, if you're a managing director, whatever you are, board, that's what you're thinking. But if you're a fan, you're thinking, well, Europa League. FA Cup. Yeah. You're stuck. You want trophies. That's why he's followed. And truly players want trophies as well. Yeah, and that's going to be Unai Emery's problem as well. You know, every single player wants to win the FA Cup. I mean, it has lost a bit of its bluster in the last few years. But what we saw in this third round, this has been the best third round for a long, long time.

13:56So, yeah, as a player, if you turn up to the next round, and Rodgers, for example, isn't playing, you're thinking, hold on a minute. Are we really wanting to win this or not? That's not a good spot. Meanwhile, at the Valley, Liam Rossini's first game in charge of Chelsea would end in a 5-1 victory over Charlton as the Blues safely through to the next round. I've just been told that Jules is freezing. That... Oh, brrr. Brrr. Brrr. No, he's good, he's good. Jules, take us through the game from your vantage point. Yeah, the hat is beautiful. Yeah, well done.

14:35So, we wanted to see what Rosinho could do with this team, right? And we were a little bit disappointed for the line-up because it was a B team slash C team. But what we saw certainly in possession with the structure, I think it's probably something I think that we will see quite regularly or probably very often from a Chelsea team now under Rosinho. That back four that turned into a back three, Hato coming inside a lot, but more, not just an inverted fullback, but very much as an inside ten, Buenannote on the other side, the whip from the two-wingers, Garnaccio, Guitens, plus obviously Andres Santos and Caicedo in front of that back three.

15:09I thought that was interesting in the way they occupy the pitch in terms of the verticality that they try to find at times, even against a low block, there was a lot of interesting things that you could see what he was trying to do. And again, he's been only with his team for two, three days, really. So we need a bit more time, but that was interesting. Then when the bigger boys came in, Enzo, Estevao, Neto, the lab, it got even easier for them against a Charlton team that had a lot of heart, but not really much talent on the pitch. So I think he'd be happy with his debut. The goal they considered was probably avoidable, really.

15:42but I think he'd be happy with what his players tried to do with the ball and the structure again tactically of what they showed. And then they scored five, they could easily have scored seven or eight. I just want to take you back to some of his comments that he said ahead of this game. And this is a storyline that pretty much Enzo Maresco, of course, followed in his final weeks at Chelsea, saying, I remember Sir Alex Ferguson was brave enough to put six, seven players between the age of 19 and 21 in his team, in a title-winning team, because he believed in them. What they did is they grew and they won trophy after trophy after trophy.

16:14There is potential for that here. Speak about Kaiseido or Enzo Fernandes or Cole Palmer or Rhys James. World-class players and still very, very young. That is the ultimate ambition for this club to create that again. It's interesting when you take a look at the ages of these very, very young players. They aren't actually that young and they certainly aren't inexperienced, Stevie. It seems a strange thing to say. We've missed Cucurella's 28. Yeah. Sanchez, the proper goalkeeper, 27. Yeah. I don't understand why he's bringing this up. I mean, there's actually very little that you can compare with this in the Class of 92.

16:56Because we didn't know anybody from the Class of 92 when he put a red jersey on. Yes. We know all of these guys. I mean, Rhys is a seasoned international. Caicedo. Enzo Fernandes got a World Cup winner's medal. So this whole young nonsense, A, leave it, we've had enough of it, and B, why are you trying somehow to compare what you've got to the class of 92 and Alec Ferguson? You're just setting yourself up to fail. Because the only thing you know is as soon as it goes wrong, somebody's going to say about the class of 92. So you're bringing the pressure on yourself. Yeah, it seems to be you're putting expectations far too high, Jules.

17:40Yeah, I agree with everything Stevie said. We talked about it a bit in our pre-match build-up too. It's that unnecessary pressure that you put on yourself, apart from the fact that there's just nothing comparable between the class of 92, probably the greatest ever generation from an academy, from the same club, coming through at the same time, that might never even ever be equal to what you have, to the ages that you mentioned, to the fact that you are not Sir Alex anyway to bring through, even if they were younger players, to bring through those young players, by the way. It's weird, is it, to bring the fans on board and say, listen, this is what...

18:19Because obviously there was a lot made here in England about the fact that he's a United fan. He was very open about it when Strasbourg played away at Aberdeen in the Conference League earlier this season. He was all about Sir Alex and how much he admired him and how much he's his idol and example and United this and United that. So maybe that was a way for him to just go back onto the Chelsea side in a way. But apart from that, it's just it's pointless to have said that and again, put the pressure on you, on your players too. And not sure I really understand why he went there so early because he's usually very good in terms of speaking to the media, his communication, he's a smart kid.

18:57That didn't really make much sense. Jules, good news and bad news for you. Good news is you'll be back in the warmth of the studio on Monday. Bad news, it's with Gab for the latest edition of the Gab and Jules podcast. We say thank you very much to Jules. Hopefully we'll thaw out soon. The latest edition of that programme, of course, drops on Monday. Biggest result of the day when it came to the score was no doubt about it. Manchester City 10, Exeter City 1. A number of different scorers for City, including Semenyo, of course, making his debut after that big money move from Bournemouth. He'd have an assist and a goal.

19:31Semenyo, of course, starting, Stevie. We talked about him a lot making that move from Bournemouth. Obviously, it eggs to the opponents today. But it's a nice way to hit the ground running, isn't it? Yeah, initially when I saw you was playing, I found it a bit strange. I thought, what if I'm Doku? But at the same time, if you're Pep, it's, well, this is a good opportunity. Because this is a free hit. Get them on the field. Let them see what we're all about. Because basically, City go about it the same way, regardless of the opposition. So it's a good opportunity to see what they're about. and he ends up with a goal and an assist.

20:04So everybody's a winner. And we've had this conversation so many times over the years, but you've got no problem with the score being run up in that manner. Absolutely not. Against inferior opponents. No, not at all. Not at all. I think it's more disrespectful if you start taking the mickey and start rolling about and all A's and all that. No. No. You get as many as you can.

20:45Here we go then. Barcelona against Real Madrid tomorrow, live on ABC. Our coverage starts at 1.30 Eastern. The big story leading up to kick-off tomorrow in Saudi Arabia is the return of Kylian Mbappe to the squad. He, of course, missed that big semi-final win against Atletico Madrid. He's back, he's fit, and will he play? Here's Xavi Alonso. He's much better. The idea was it was going to be very tight to play against Atleti, so we decided not to rush him.

21:22We have to assess the risk. We know what's at stake and take responsibility for our decisions.

21:30We're not kamikazes, it's controlled risk. No somos kamikazes a la hora de tomar decisiones.

21:59Then there was a training session. He could train 100 % fit and the excitement has grown. I'm here in a Haima, in my own private Haima. I'm at the hotel where all the press is with a lot of people from Real Madrid Federation. I could talk to them and the excitement is really the hype. It's big with regarding Mbappé. He trained well. He feels well. The scanner they did before flying to Ujida went very well. So all of us here are expecting him to start. I know the logical would say maybe keep him off on the bench because he's been three weeks without competing. He's sprained his knee. Today is the only day he was able to train alongside his teammates.