Maestro Messi Tames the 3 Lions

23:22For more information, see callshe.com slash regulatory. Welcome back. I've been told this is happy Argentina fans. There they are. They're happy. Really? I don't know why it's in Brazil. Oh, no. Oh, dear. Well, there you go. Got what you deserved. Welcome back to ESPN FC Studios. Let's get some more reaction. Archie is in Manchester. We'll be hearing from Archie in a moment. But first, let's go to Kevin and Adrian.

23:55Steve Nicol:Yeah, cheers, Dan. I do feel for you because I witnessed you a rollercoaster of emotions. You wouldn't watch what everyone else here at the Irish Exit. You found yourself in a corridor. I had to remove myself. Yeah. How are you doing now? I don't know if I've ever felt more gutted. I mean, disappointment doesn't even begin to describe it. I saw you back there. You said, why do we always do this? Why do we make it so hard for ourselves? Why does England always make it so hard for themselves? Well, the sentiment here, Adrian, from chatting to people, is negativity around Tuchel, actually. A lot of the fans are a little bit angry by the way the subs were rolling and the way the team looked toward the end.

24:28Steve Nicol:You know, I wouldn't go that far on judging him as a whole. But what he did do is clearly push all his chips into the middle on trying to defend a 1-0 lead with 35 minutes to go. They had done it against Mexico. They'd done it against Norway with similar times. But this was Argentina. I mean, I should say hats off to Argentina. They deserve to win this game. I mean, I heard Craig talking about it earlier. They looked like they were going to run through a brick wall. This was two exhausted, knackered, tired teams. And it was a question of who was going to dig deeper. And Argentina proved they have whole more levels to dig to.

25:06Steve Nicol:And they've repeated it again, done it time and time again, come back in this tournament. Exactly right. I mean, think about what they've done in the last game. Extra time, the game against Egypt, the stoppage time winner. Extra time, the game before that against Cabo Verde. The feeling here, it was silence. It was actually unbelievable. It's a largely English contingent at the bar here at the Irish exit. And when that goal went in from Lautaro Martinez, pure silence around this area. Well, because they knew that was it. They pretty much knew it was it when the equaliser went in, because at that stage they had seven defenders on.

25:33Steve Nicol:But they were five minutes away from Thomas Tuchel's plan working, albeit with a huge slice of luck. I mean, Argentina should have been up already. I mean, they hit the post twice. It was almost just a question of when and off. It'll just be, you know what the English media is like. There's going to be a huge inquest. Why did you do this? Why did you do that? Fine margins. But in the end, I think it came down to pure willpower. Argentina just were not going to let this go and not going to let England away with this win. And then now, this has to be for Messi, a man that's lived in Spain longer than he's lived in Argentina, the dream final at his age as well.

26:09Steve Nicol:Phenomenal performance. Let's see how the English drown their sorrows here tonight, Dan. Well, I'm sure you'll be hoping they will. A lot. Ka-ching! What's that? Kev, what's that bar called?

26:25Okay. Archie. Mac, I'll tell you, he's an honorary owner. Archie, I imagine the scenes in Manchester is similar to what we saw in Atlanta. Quite the rollercoaster ride. Well, exactly, Dan. If I look behind me, there's not very many people left. and that's because England are out of the World Cup again and I have to say, I disagree with Adrian. This is only on Thomas Tuchel. Who else can this be on that England retreated completely after they scored and his tactics went completely wrong? Like, Argentina got stronger in the game and there were moments. The fact that Argentina hit the post was already a warning sign that you are dropping way too deep, way too early and simply they have too much quality And people may say, oh, well, think about the Mexico game.

27:16It worked out there. England had 10 men there. They didn't have any other choice. It was a game at altitude. We all knew the circumstances surrounding it. But this one is entirely on Thomas Tuchel because look at how the 55 minutes before England had scored had gone. This was a tense game. Neither side had the edge. In the first half, both teams went into the opponent's boxes four times, I think it was. In the second half, England went three times into the Argentina box. Sure, they scored with one. Argentina went into the English box 24 times, and that's because England let them. You cannot back off against a team of Argentina's quality.

27:48We all know that they have the greatest player of all time in there, and if you give him enough chances to put the ball into the box, Enzo Fernandes is an excellent ball striker, and sure, he messed up the first three, but if you give him four goes at the cherry, then sooner or later one of them is going to be on target. I think this is entirely on Thomas Tuchel. I wouldn't put any blame on the players at all, because if you dig in so early against a team of this quality, you are going to get results like that. Sorry, Argy, who are you blaming for this?

28:23We discussed this earlier. Is that fair, Frank? Yes, I think the most responsible for that tactic, let's say, is Thomas Tuchel. But again, players like Gehi, players like Stones, they have the experience of knowing by themselves what they have to do. And going further up 10 yards is not a big deal when you have defenders like them. So yes, Tuchel should have, because he's responsible, because he's the coach, he should have pushed them more than that if he sees that there is no reaction from his set of backs. But the players are also guilty for that.

28:59Steve Nicol:I don't think anybody had an issue with Thomas Tuchel's team selection. I don't think anybody would say... No, no. Logan Rogers worked, didn't it? I think that was fine. There wasn't a problem. The only issue, or the big issue, was the change in strategy to invite. And even the corner kick that led to Enzo Fernandes' wonderful strike, some of the England players had, and this is where it's on them, some of the England players had their back turned to the corner being coming in. So by the time they turned around, it's already gone out to the box and Jude Billingham was the first to react to get out there.

29:31Steve Nicol:But he was too late. It was little moments like that. The coach is always an easy target. But it is true that if you drop deep to your box and you have a 5-3-2 formation or a 5-4-1 formation, you don't let the midfielders shoot from outside the box. At least. Of course, at least. But they were nine in the same line. There is responsibility from the players as well. The only person in the back four that should have been worried about squeezing up and leaving space was John Stones. because of his age and he hasn't played a lot of football. And if that was the issue, then Tuchel should have taken him off and put somebody on that was quicker, like Aconza in that position, I know he came on at right back, so that they could squeeze further up.

30:15Steve Nicol:But if that was the reason he was worried about, you know, John Stones or one or two, Rhys James was looking tired. If that was the reason, he had to make changes so that they could squeeze the game a little bit more. And if a ball was played in behind, like it was in the first half, how many times in the first half did any of the England back four when a ball went over the top get outpaced? None. So if that was the issue in Tuchel's mind he should have made a change to stifle that problem so that they could squeeze the game and keep Lionel Messi and one or two others 40 yards from your goal not 20 yards where he can whip the ball in.

30:52Gentlemen, let's go back to Atlanta before we let you go let's just get your thoughts on the final on Sunday. I can't stop thinking about Lionel Messi holding

31:01Steve Nicol:La Mignamal as a baby that image that's gone viral many times because to have that dream final with La Mignamal a teenager against a 39 year old it's a dream in many ways and for Messi to they've hardly ever played Spain have they in the course of their history 1966 the last time in a competitive game 60 years since the final for Messi to get that chance to do in a country where he played for so long that's the icing on the cake really You know, I think Argentina have the beating of Spain, but Spain will be the favourite. Yeah, fascinating game. Absolutely brilliant. Dan, it's been a pleasure to be here.

31:35Steve Nicol:Live from the Irish exit.

31:42Steve Nicol:Prediction, 2-1 Spain. I think Argentina have the beating of them. They do. They have the beating. Well, England had the beating of Argentina, but they didn't. Argentina had the beating of Spain. but it's not going to happen. Spain 2-1. Yeah, this one, like the World Cup in 94, it's going to penalties in the final, and I'm going to go with Argentina. As long as people stay in your bar, the longer the game goes on, the better. Just keep them in there, Kev. Thanks, Kev. I'd like failure. I'm urging! Archie, your prediction for the final?

32:20I'm also on board the Spain boat. I think it might be a bit more goalie. I'm going to go 3-2 Spain. Oh, that would be nice for me. Great stuff, guys. Thank you very much. Cheers, boys. Thank you. I know who's going to have a better evening. Sorry, Archie. Just a reminder, the boys stay late to answer your questions on Extra Time. As always, you can check that out on YouTube.

32:45Coming up then after break, we'll look ahead to Sunday's World Cup final. It is Spain against Argentina. Are you looking to rebound from your high interest credit card debt? A SoFi personal loan can help you get back on track. Consolidate your debt with a SoFi personal loan into one loan monthly payment. And you could save money on interest over time. And with as soon as the same day funding, you could hit the ground running ASAP. Apply today with no fees required at SoFi.com slash debt rebound. Loans originated by SoFi Bank, NA member, FDIC. Terms and conditions apply, NMLS. 696891. Fast funds terms apply at sofi.com slash debt rebound.

33:28Save$2 when you buy two cans of Superior Products Coverall tire dressing. Plus receive four times O rewards points now at O 'Reilly Auto Parts. Coverall delivers long lasting shine. Visit your O 'Reilly Auto Parts store or OReillyAuto.com. I imagine quite a few people had a Spain-Argentina final when it came to the bracket. the best team in Europe against the best team in South America going head-to-head on Sunday at the Met Live. Spain go into this as favourites. Remember, England went into the semi-final as favourites. Argentina, the underdogs, I don't think they will care about that one bit.

34:07How do you feel, Santi, going into the final? I already won. I mean, I'm Argentinian and I am Spanish. Oh! I already won the Champions League. No, I go with Argentina, of course. Yes. Even though Spanish is my home since so many years ago, and I love Spain, Argentina is my born country. But it's going to be a fun afternoon in my house because my three children will go with Spain. Of course. Will they still be in your house after the final? I don't know what's going to happen afterwards.

34:40Steve Nicol:Are you serious? Are you serious? I'm very serious. Your kids will all be Spain. Spanish born. But they will be happy afterwards if Argentina wins as well, but they will cheer for Spain. What are you expecting from Spain, different to what we saw? I don't think it's going to drop as deep. Nobody can drop as deep as that, Sadie. Maybe they'll stay in front of the goal. The under-11s wouldn't drop as deep as England did today. Sounds like a joke, but it is not. I mean, England showed yesterday against France that is willing to take risks. That they are the best high pressure of the tournament. there is a very organised and neat team with very, very talented players.

35:19Both teams won the ball. Both teams accumulate or overload the centre of the midfield. And let's hope it's a fantastic and beautiful game and that there are goals and that we don't have to see a first half as we saw it as muddy and dirty. Will Argentina approach the first half as they did this one? Yeah, I think so. Argentina has been a very consistent part of the game. Very South American. Very consistent and trying to, you know, reserve all the energy for the last half an hour because it did it today, but it has done it before, as Craig said. We haven't talked about that. That's interesting that you bring that up.

35:58That's a conscious effort? Probably. To save that energy for the last, because they've done so much. Yeah, I mean, to make the game a little bit slower in the first half without risking that much and then take the game to where you can have an advantage.

36:12Steve Nicol:But they did that against Egypt and they were very lucky not to be 3-0 down. But you need, I mean, to win the World Cup or to be in the final, you need to do everything well, everything right. But you have to have that little bit of luck. And Messi can't go at it for 90 minutes. Right. He will, he will. I mean, from the start, he will do it. No, but I mean, he's not going to be on the bench. No, I mean, he can't play at full pace for 90 minutes. No, no, no. No, I mean, but he doesn't need it. He has made the less is more mantra. This World Cup, he has made it like, I don't know, a sign. He doesn't need that much.

36:56He just made efficiency. He's more lethal weapon. It's just efficiency. He's incredibly efficient. He just needs to run 10K. He might as well run 5K and be better with the ball.

37:06Steve Nicol:People that love stats would hate that, wouldn't they? He hasn't run 12K, he's only run 7.5, but he scored twice and created two more. Stats are just crazy sometimes. You know the thing is with this game, is Spain will have more of the ball than England did, and Spain will likely do more with the ball than England did. And it's whether Argentina can get to that period of the game and not have enough damage, i.e. Spain are not 2 or 3 nil up, if that's the way the game goes, which I kind of think it will the way Spain have passed the ball in this tournament, particularly in the game against France.

37:40Steve Nicol:Right. The way they dominated France was quite scary, really. So it's how Argentina defend when Spain get in that final third because they've got not better players in England, in a sense, but they have players that are maybe a little bit more clever in that final third, which England did not today. If Spain leads, they will not capitulate like England did. You know, if Spain do score the first goal, like yesterday, they were up against arguably the world's best yesterday, weren't they, in France. And they didn't drop one iota. They kept on going forwards. They kept on wanting to score the second, wanting to dominate.

38:24So it'll be hard for Argentina if Spain do take... Everything is a reminder how rubbish we were at the last half hour.

38:31Steve Nicol:No, but Dan, what's one of the things we talked about relatively early in the competition, and it's gone on from the group stages through to the knockout stages, is that it's been quite evident, for the most part, that teams that have tried to defend their way all the way in games have gone out. And it's been the teams that have got on the front foot. Okay, Argentina had to defend for a little bit, every team has to defend. But teams that have been a lot more negative as the game's gone on generally have gone out. For example, Spain, they wanted a second yesterday. Their mentality was get a second, put France away.

39:07Steve Nicol:Get a third, put France away. England's mentality was bring the big lads on and let's defend in the box. And that rarely works at this level. That's why I'm very worried for the Argentinian against Spain. Because I saw what happened yesterday with France, with Spain, and they are capable of scoring a second goal and not dropping. and it's why I think they're going to score a goal Argentina's going to try to get out and they're going to be punished and punished and punished so when you're going to ask for the prediction I will have a very strange result that I'm going to give you because I really think that can be a disaster we'll be with you after the break no because I think it can be a real disaster for the Argentinian team he's mean after France went out he's mean he's bitter we lost against Spain I'm going to give Spain a large results against Argentina.

39:58Because I see the power of keeping the ball, making the Argentinian running after the ball and getting tired and finishing them that can be horrible.

40:08Steve Nicol:But that French team yesterday, if we're being honest, it had a lot of talent. It did not have... It didn't exist. It did not even have a smidge of the fight that this Argentina team had today. None of that, did it? No. It really didn't. Do you think an extra day's rest for Spain will help? Yes, of course. Of course it will. At the end of the competition, everything counts. And that can be something extra. But I don't even think that they need that one more day. I think with the quality that they have, they're going to make... Well, except Argentina, we know that believes they're going to go for it until the last second.

40:46They're going to give everything to make sure that they can try something. But that Spanish team, it's impossible to beat because they have so much technique, so much tactics, so much thinking of the game that it's hard to beat them. So, yeah, it's going to be hard. Save it, save it. No, no, we can do it. All right, do it. We can do it if we want. Let's do it. Should we do it last, Santi? What is your early prediction? I can't believe he's going to 15-0, he was going to say. I don't even count that high. I think Argentina's going to win on penalties. Ooh. See? See, he's very cautious right now.

41:240-0, 0-0, 0-0 or 2-2. 1-1, OK. 1-1 on pens. OK, fine. Will it be a good final? Will it be a fun final? Why not? 0-0, fun final, yeah. For sure, more fun than the first half. Oh, go for it. Yes, right. Go on, that's not different. Does it, Sancy, watching that paint dry over there would be better than face the fuck? Having been with Franks more into the same time. Time out.

41:46Steve Nicol:What are you going for, Ben? Does he play the same team? I wonder if he plays the same team. I wonder if Simeone plays or whether Rodrigo De Paul comes back in. Right, what would you do, Sancy? thanks God I don't have to make that decision well that's not what you've written stuff down it must be on here somewhere one of these nodes must be who will play I think the Argentinians will try and get under the skin of the Spanish even more I think maybe De Paul will play because he's brilliant at that sometimes it goes over the edge and that's a concern but I think they'll get I wouldn't say they were allowed to do what they wanted by France but it was way easier than we thought it was going to be.

42:23Steve Nicol:I don't think Argentina will allow that for a second. Is there a prediction coming? Yeah. We'll just wait for the end of the call. I'm going to say brilliant game. 3-2 to Argentina. Really? Argentina? Yes. Similar to Egypt. 2-0 down. 2-0 down. I'm not going that far. Right, OK. 3-2. I'm going to go 3-1 Spain. I'll be nice and concise. There you go. OK, thank you very much. Right then, ladies and gentlemen, that's it for today. Oh. Right then, Frank. Come on. I'm sorry, but I would have to go really large. I'll go for 4-0 for Spain. 4-0 to Spain? Yeah, because it's going to be a punishment. Is that a wish or a prediction?

43:01No, not at all a wish. Not at all, because I love respect and I would rather go for a 3-2. But I'm sorry, the scenario that I see is you score one goal, Argentina, they have to get out and they're going to be punished and punished because of the talent of the Spanish team. And that's what it is. What if Argentina scores first? Oh, well, that couldn't be another story, but they never scored first. Okay. Santi, go the whole way. Just give him a little slap. Yeah, but can I fall like any Argentinian players?

43:32Yeah, I like it. You couldn't be Argentinian. We all have hair. I know. All right. Come on. Very nice. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it counts. It continues over the next couple of days. There are no games, but there'll be plenty to talk about on ESPN FC. We're back on the F530 Eastern on ESPN+. So to come on today's show will be reflected on Kylian Mbappe and what he had to say about Didier Duchamp's tactics as France lose against Spain.

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45:47Big game tonight. Gotham City taking on Washington Spirit. ESPYs, of course, tonight. So mark the occasion. Blue carpet ahead of this big game. Of course, part of Rivalry Week on NWSO. You can catch it tonight, 8 p.m. Eastern on ESPN.

46:06What was the keepers everybody saying? Ooh la la, final. Ooh la la, final. Ooh la la, final. That's Spanish. It was Philan. The falling star? Exactly. What's been the overriding narrative from France's defeat? Well, they missed that game. They didn't play the way they used to play. Everybody is disappointed in a way that we were expecting so much. I think maybe we saw them too big. We really thought that they could be the champion of the world. And they show very good talent. But they faced a very good team. And it's why they lost. And we talked about that yesterday. But on top of it, their performances individually weren't enough.

47:02What the heck is the motivation for teams that went into this tournament as wanting to win the World Cup going into Saturday in the third, fourth place playoff? Well, good luck. It's France against England in Miami.

47:17Steve Nicol:Well, we've got a chocker, Borough. Not really. All right, we'll not bother. Nobody wants to play this game. No, I think they're going to play the B team. The players wouldn't have a chance to play because nobody really cared. I remember at the Platini time that we saw the B team playing and because the Platini didn't want to play, didn't care about it's not the same being third or being fourth no no no money wise i mean i would like to have the bronze i mean yes i i care i always care when it is about competition i care i mean it's it's not the same to be first or second even if it's a great achievement to reach the final and it's not the same to be third or fourth for me in the olympics i can agree with you, but in the football world...

48:03I don't care. After the disappointment of that game today and losing in the semi-finals, I think the third and fourth place play-off, personally, is a waste of time. I feel like we have this conversation every time. People want to go on holiday. Liverpool are back in training. Real Madrid are back in training. Everybody's back in training. So, they've got a limited amount of time before your club is saying, right, you've had two weeks off, you've had three weeks off, you're back in. So, any day, any amount of time you can rest and recuperate before the season starts is more important than a third, fourth place player.

48:37For me, anyway. Sorry, Craig, we've got Thomas Tuchel saying, I've got no regrets. This is England's best performance of the tournament. Are you joking? Are you joking? We're champions in 66. You've made me look rather... Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

48:55Steve Nicol:We're live. No, no. We've played one of our best games. We have no regrets. Oh, my God. There's going to be. I mean, how can you have no regrets having a 1-0 lead in the semi-final with just over half an hour to go and then defending in the manner? Surely the regret is that they allowed Argentina by the fact that how deep they sat into the game. That has to be a regret. Yeah, it has to be. And taking midfielders off and putting defenders on when you're still trying to defend. That has to be a regret as well, surely, because you couldn't change the way the ties, the way the game was going. So once they conceded, you knew they were going to concede again.

49:36If I'm English, I want to know who's responsible for that decision. That's what it is. Either the players or the coach. But I want to know who decided to drop that. They had a cooling break as well. I mean, we have to analyse the games with the cooling breaks as tactical. Yeah, it changed something.

49:51Steve Nicol:It's impossible to lose a semi-final of a World Cup, no matter who you are and not have a regret. Not having a regret about a substitution or a change here or a change of tactic or a save. It's impossible. Maybe he doesn't want a scenario that he had with Jude Bellingham in the last game and be hypercritical now. But all those players and the coach are going to have some big, big regrets. Could we avoid the Deschamps-Mbappé thoughts? We didn't have time, Frank, in the end. Good. You can have that tonight. It's been a bit of a stormy day in New York, certainly for England fans. But once again, it's lightning in a bottle for Argentina in the form of Lionel Messi.

50:36Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Craig Burley, Steven Mannerman and Frank Leboefer with me. You know what, I was thinking during the show and I thought what a brilliant analogy this is for me. I'm going to bring it up in Extra Time. Don't you think there's a lot of similarities between Argentina in the World Cup and Real Madrid in the Champions League? They just get it done. They have that belief. You can never write them off. Yes, thank you, Dan. That's a brilliant idea. Well done, Dan. Thank you very much. That's the end of it. That's why you get paid all the money.

51:03Steve Nicol:That's what horrible people... Well, England will defend and... Yes. ...behindered on goal for half an hour. That's what you've come up with. Oh, yes. I thought that was a very good analogy. Well done, mate. Well done. I think you have to take... As an English guy, you have to take full responsibility for your loss. I think we have for the last hour. Yeah, yeah, we are. And I think we will continue. Yeah, but you didn't include yourself personally. Personally. In Macca. What do you mean? If you personally apologize. In English, you are responsible for the loss. No, because we all saw what was happening.

51:28Steve Nicol:We all saw what was going on. We spent the whole last half an hour where everybody was going like, get up, get up, get up. And it's when Stevie went to the restrooms that Argentina equalized. Oh, was it? It's my fault. It's his fault. It's always one. Never go to the restroom. Never, never. Never go to the restroom. Ah, well, that's sad. Southgate in disguise, Maka Yep Yeah, wasn't it? We've seen it time and time again Croatia I mean, I don't want to say that disparagingly Because the team are the team But in 2018 They got to the semi-finals against Croatia They were leading Blew that game You know, 2020 Well, we saw the Euros They've blown it a couple of times It's almost too cool Was brought in To do better than Gareth Southgate And he hasn't And the way they went out today Was a bit of a damn squib, really I said all along, unfortunately they need to be better if they need to lift the trophy you want them to lift the trophy and they need to be better I said after the DR Congo game after the Mexico game after the Norway game they need to be better they need to be better or they're going to come unstuck and they come unstuck today It doesn't match the English mentality overall you know in the culture But it does Well no Because we've seen it time and time again We have seen it time and time again Yeah but I mean coming from a coach but not coming maybe from the players I don't know we have to know again who decided to do that?

52:49Because I played against England. I saw England playing against France and I was fighting and going for it and never giving up and going forward, never sitting down and waiting. But do you need Thomas Tuchel to tell you to sit back? And will you do that? Because surely as players, with so many warning shots, surely as these experienced players who've won everything domestically, they have the gumption to say, this isn't working, and we've got to push out. Absolutely. We've got to come out. It comes from the goalkeeper, get out, get out, get out. And then it comes from, as Frank said before, the centre's defenders, let's get out.

53:24As I said, whether it was just fatigue, you know, but then it was an indoor stadium with air-conditioned today, so it's a different place today from Mexico. It was fear. It was just fear, I think it was. I think it was fear. Again, I was talking about Marquinhos and Thiago Silva in Paris Saint-Germain. We are talking about monsters, fantastic players. This was in the Barcelona. In the Barcelona-Romontada, where we saw them dropping. And I was watching the game. He said, what happened to those two guys? And you could see Unai Emery saying, get up, get up. And they didn't move. And there's six goals.

53:59And that's crazy. And you have no understanding from the players and the others. They don't react. Nobody reacts. And they drown. Everybody is drowning at the same time. That's crazy. And it's what we saw today with players, with experience, domestic maybe experience, experience doing nothing not reacting to that when we go we'll have a go at Thomas Tuchel or the English press will and you know the comparisons with Garrett Southgate will spring to mind but you can only really blame Thomas Tuchel for any substitutions or Garrett Southgate for substitutions in the end the players have to take responsibility on the pitch right the manager can't come on and start kicking balls for them they have to judge what's going on are we in trouble we're in big trouble what should we do to try and fix it we need to do this and the players have to be more organised.

54:46I mean, we had Santi on before, who's just had to leave us. He said, now with this hydration break, you've effectively got, you know, two half-times. You've got to manage it then saying, let's do this, let's do that. So I don't know what's happening. It'll all come out over the next week or so when we get back to the UK and read about it. But, you know... Well, he was brought in to do something. I just want to bring in the next question. The experiment has failed. The touch was mostly on Tuchel, Dan. He didn't trust the players to play their own game after we won't win. Well, one thing I was going to say, right,

55:16Steve Nicol:Southgate did a great job, right, but they wanted to go a step further. And they wanted to play, evolve and play a little bit more expansive football. If we're being honest about it, they did a great job. If you mark the England players for the attitude, grit and determination, it was 10 out of 10. But if we're being honest, Croatia apart, England didn't really play well. in the tournament. They got to the semi-final, had it in the grasp, but had never really played well. The players that they have on the field, when they're playing for the clubs, they can play better than they have for England.

55:53Steve Nicol:It just feels that it was kind of similar to what they had with Southgate. So therefore it has to... You go back to Thomas Tuchel when he was manager of Chelsea, for instance. When he was successful, I remember they played Liverpool twice in the League Cup and the FA Cup in the same year, both games were nil-nil. You know, in the Champions League final, it was a low-scoring game. He is, that's what he does. Technically, very, very pragmatic, very defensively minded, doesn't want a big free-flowing game. That's what we've got. He was hired on the back of all those results, and that's what we've got from it.

56:25Steve Nicol:And it was one of the reasons some of the players were left at home. And actually, Garrett Southgate was never that defensive. Never that defensive. Well, we're going to see, because we know what's going on between Jude Billingham and him, in a few days. I'm pretty sure. I'll tell you what, I wouldn't want to see anything coming up. No, no, no. Yeah, but I'm afraid. That's unfortunate. No, no, no. That's the sort of person he is. I think Jude Belligam will talk about that and I'm pretty sure he's going to talk about the dropping and I think we can go not too hard, but some words. But like we just said, you know, it's not all down to Tuchel.

56:57If everyone's dropping, then Bellingham's got to be telling his players as well. Well, maybe. You know, he was the only one on the Enzo Fernandes he was the only one going out and the others they stayed on the straight line it's not Zucco's fault that everyone had their back to the corner of course not he's not responsible for everything for sure but again because of the hydration break he could have said something and changed something Craig are you satisfied that it isn't coming home? You're not like a Stevie he's not he's never that I'm not really

57:27Steve Nicol:because I really I really had a great appreciation of what the England players put into that game But you could see it coming. So there's nothing I can do about that or anybody else. They're professionals and I admired the way they played, but ultimately they allowed Argentina to dictate the last 25 minutes, half an hour plus. Do I think England would have beaten Spain in the final had they got there? Probably not. When we go back to the Thomas Tuchel question, when you analyse that second goal, for instance, the winner, you know that's not got anything to do with Thomas Tuchel has it you know Messi beating two players getting across in three four five defenders in the box and Lotharo Martinez like that exactly not one person is within a yard of Lotharo Martinez when he gets a free you know that's not down to Thomas Tuchel you know if you are going to drop deep and defend your box you have to defend better than that so it's a collection of things that have conspired to get to this place but you know like we all understand like probably 99.9 % of the population who supported England.

58:31They didn't deserve it today. They were distinctly second best. It's really England losing that game. That's why you're going to get upset. Frank, who was worse, France or England? Well, I would say France. Well, no, in a drama way, England. Because you cannot lose that game for me. But France didn't exist against Spain for the majority of the game. And they didn't have a chance to score. You had a little bit of that douche shot. but couldn't surprise Unai Simon, but you had nothing. And England had at least one hour the game in hand. So France, that was not expected and not planned at all. And I think it's the bitterness has to be bigger in France than in England.

59:21You can be just upset in England just because of the result, because of the last reaction, the last 30 minutes. In France, it's a... What happened? They were invisible. They didn't exist for the old game. So, I think more friends. Final question. How many words that can't be said on television came out of Dan's mouth? We didn't watch it together, did we? I watched it on my own. No, you were isolated. You're Mr. Antisocial. You sat and watched it in his darkroom on your own. Yeah. I was coming time to time to see if he was still breathing. Yeah, I was all right. And then, like we were saying, last 10-15 minutes, you just sat back and just waited for the inevitable.

59:55And that's exactly what happened.

59:56Steve Nicol:You're not really a shouter though, watching the game. You're more of a kid. Yeah. You're more of a look. Fidgeter, yeah. It wasn't like... It wasn't terrible. No, I'm pleased it wasn't a bad decision. Yeah. The best team won. And I think that's kind of their... Dan, football won. Football won. Exactly. Because, because... Lionel Messi. Collective sport. Lionel Messi was the best player. That's all right. 39. We're going out for dinner, Craig. You're not... You're going home. Craig's going home. We're going out for dinner. At least when somebody's coming home. Somebody's going home. He's coming home.

1:00:24He's going home. Greg is coming off. That is it. Whether you like it or not. ESPN FC back on your screens tomorrow. Macca will be on with Stevie. I'm sure more of a reflection on what we saw in these two semifinals. Plus looking ahead to the third, fourth place playoff.

1:00:48Good energy in. Good energy out.

1:00:56Storm.

1:00:57Steve Nicol:Zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine, and immunity support. Storm. Energy for life.