Magical Messi Makes History

25:31Good, great stuff, Frank. Thank you very much. Go to bed, go to sleep. We'll speak to you later in the week. I will. Bye-bye. Look at this. Sometimes these stats are terrible, but this really does tell the story beautifully from a French point of view. They were so bad in the first half. Not a shot on target. They were conceding shots. Really, Senegal should have gone in with at least a two-goal lead. they didn't and then France turned it around in the second half. Impressive stuff from them. Let's hear from William Saliba. He'll talk about Mbappe in a moment but first what went on in that first half?

26:07As I said the first half was not good. We didn't play well so in the dressing room we talked each other to say what we have to do better the second half and we came back with a good intention. We scored goals and that's why we won the game. I think he has everything to beat the record first so I hope he's going to do it in this tournament because for sure he has everything and I'm sure that he will do it. I think everyone's going to break the goal scoring record really. I think that's where we stand considering what we've seen today. This was a fascinating encounter because after the first half, you thought, God, they're a bit like Spain here.

26:50These teams are just starting these tournaments so slowly. And second half, they went, oh, we should really try, shouldn't we? And that seemed to pay dividends. And what you saw from France in the second half was scary good. Scary good in the sense that, look, we'll talk about Kylian Mbappe, of course. And his second goal, third for France, gorgeous. Just a great goal. World-class goal from a world-class player. but if you look at that team the way it's put together there's an argument to be made that he's not even their best player because on paper right now is Mane Dembele is a current Ballon d 'Or winner yeah as the best player in the world and then right next on the other side is Michael Rizzi who by a lot of people's estimation is the front runner to win the Ballon d 'Or this upcoming season.

27:39And so it's, you're thinking, oh wait, and then they have Mbappe. But when they take somebody off, in comes Barcola and he scores a great goal. And when you think that maybe you've had enough, when Desiree Du is running circles around people and creating chances, and it's just too much. When they get going and they get flowing into open spaces, they have players everywhere. And as it pertains to Michael Olisse, let me just highlight him. He's flowing with the ball. He's floating on the field. He's finding passes. And for the life of me, it feels like everybody seems to be stressed about playing, whereas for him, this is just warm-up mode.

28:22That he's just, let me find this pass. I'm going to glide past you. You're not even there. I don't even see you. he is not bothered nor concerned at all about anything that Senegal was trying to do defensively against him. They did not impact his game and his decision making. That is a telltale sign of a player who's playing with a high level of confidence and who has the talent to execute in the manner in which he does. He was outstanding in the second half. Yeah, I think the fact that he got player of the game and he didn't score in the game shows how much of an impact he had. what's that face for?

28:58I don't know how you can't give player the game to Mbappe to be honest well I thought Alise was better anyway moving on so if you score you just have to get it yeah automatically no not necessarily but you score two goals as Ali said the second goal was great I think there's a thing about Mbappe that there always seems to be a caveat when you speak about him I think if we didn't know who Mbappe was and he put in that performance today we would be waxing lyrical about him but because there's this narrative around him that he doesn't track back, he doesn't defend. Nobody's mentioned any of that.

29:33We're just talking about this game and Alise was excellent in this game. No, I know. And Alise, I love Alise. I think he's fantastic. But I think sometimes we take what Mbappe does for granted.

29:46I would say, yes, that is true. But I also think it's fair that Alise was player of the game for this game itself. I think the first goal for Mbappe, the ball is from Elise and the ball is elite. It's as good as it comes, which is why Mbappe is able to take the finish first time. Mbappe's second goal, it's a great finish as such. But the game seemed to change in that second half when Elise got a bigger handle on it itself. And things started to happen. As Alec is saying, it's like floating around on the pitch. He was basically conducting the game in that second half and he was feeding Mbappe. There was one ball that he played behind Koulibaly.

30:20I said it earlier in the day Koulibaly will not know what's happened in this game which he just played in until he watches it back the pass was that good so I think his impact is very much massive and to go back to something that Saliba said he said we spoke in the dressing room at half time if you notice he didn't say the manager spoke to us he said we spoke at half time and I think that shows the state of this French squad because there are enough players in there who have had success sort of individually collectively for their clubs, for their national side And as a consequence, they can feel when things need to change.

30:51The manager can give them tactical ideas, but they're honest and upfront enough to be able to address things together. There are some teams who almost hide behind their coach. What's the coach going to do? How's the coach going to help us? But I think for as much as, say, Deschamps helped, I think the players themselves helped each other. And that second half was, for me, as good as it comes. We were waiting, or happy waiting, for, again, a pre-tournament favourite to look exactly the part. And your point initially is well taken, Dan, that it did not look like that for France. And yes, they were closer to what Spain was yesterday, certainly to the point to where it was concerning.

31:31Halftime comes, and then the second half comes around, and it was a completely different energy, intensity about France, purpose in the attack, purpose in the midfield. Rabiot getting involved in the attack as well. being able to regain possession of the ball. I thought that the two centerbacks played really well, not just in defending Nicholas Jackson or defending whoever may have been a threat for Senegal, but in the case of Upamecano in particular, in stepping into the midfield to go and win possession back so that then France, it was just wave after wave after wave of attack, and that's what allows guys like Olisse and then Mbappe and whoever else that wants to get involved to make the difference that they made.

32:13And you just saw what a total team can look like and why they can be so scary. Because when you start taking players off the field, usually for most teams in this competition, there is a drop-off in terms of the level of play and the potential or the ceiling on those players that are coming on. Yeah. There is no drop-off for France. Yeah, absolutely. No drop-off. You look at Bradley Barcola, and he would be a starter for most teams in this World Cup. And yet he's coming off the bench for France. And it's not the only player. There's a multitude of players that come off the bench for this team that tells you how important is squad depth.

32:50Elite squad depth. We throw it out there, and it's a comment that is just kind of thrown out. They could have two teams, two starting 11s playing in this World Cup. It's no exaggeration. That's how deep France is. And that showcased itself today as well. Yeah, and I think Ryan Chirky is somebody that came on off the bench as well. Somebody who, as Ali said, could be playing for other nations. And as I had a look at this French team today, let's say as a defender, there are different traits that attackers will have. Some of them could be technically good. Some of them could be physically good. But a lot of these players for the French side, they are both.

33:25And it's not just both in one position. It's all across the board. Which means that when you look at, say, not just the front line for them, but, say, the midfield and the back line, if you look at matchups, there won't be many matchups they will have throughout this World Cup or in football in general. where you won't favour them in the majority of those positions. At the back, you've got Upamakano and you've got Saliba. Whichever number nine you want to play against them, those two will be incredibly competitive. You look into the midfield and you've got the experience of Arabian and Shawmini.

33:54At times, maybe it feels a little bit like they could have a third person in there. But when that need is there, I'm sure Deschamps will do that. Then you look at the forward line. Who's got the speed to match Mbappe? Who's got the speed to match Douai? Who's got the speed to match Alise and the skill to match Alise? But these players, they're incredible players. And when they click, we get a chance to see what we saw earlier, which in that second half at times was unplayable. And it's funny just because Senegal should have had the lead at halftime. And it had no bearing on the result itself. But the explanation of the referee after going VAR and what potentially could have been a penalty kick for France in saying that Kylian Mbappe initiated the contact.

34:37What? He saw that video and that's his conclusion? You talk about being stubborn. Look, if you don't think it's a penalty, then so be it. But don't tell me that Kylian Mbappe, who's running past the defender, initiates the contact. Again, had no bearing in the game, and it's probably not a talking point. But I thought the reasoning from the referee was flawed in every sense and in every way possible. I never thought that that would be the thing that he would come up with after seeing the screen. Yeah, for sure. And I think what I will say as a positive is that that decision stands out a lot in this World Cup because I think the referee overall has been very good.

35:17I think it's been very, very good. We just said Messi should be sent off. Except for that. So two things across. But that's Messi though. You should never send Messi. But to address the Mbappe point that you made earlier, Dan, I think the first half was so poor from killing Mbappe. Wasn't it poor from everyone? Yes, but he's not everybody. And the expectations for him are different than they are from Jules Koundé. No, true, but we put Ulisse on that pedestal and he was poor in the first half as well. Not as. I'm just saying, not as poor. And Kylian Mbappe in the first half was like, wow, there must be some Real Madrid fans around here that are booing him.

35:56There had to be. But the second half was different from him and from everybody else. And, you know, there are moments in a World Cup that you'll remember, right? And we're very early on so far in this tournament. But when Senegal scored their goal, which, by the way, was a shakastrophic moment by Mike Mañan, a big goalkeeping mistake, one that he should have saved that he should have made. And you're thinking Senegal has five minutes or something to do. Maybe, maybe to stress France out. Maybe, maybe thought, maybe France thought that this was gone and this was done and whatever. We move on with our lives.

36:29but there was some stress and then you see Kylian Mbappe in that the next touch he has with the ball straight from the kickoff is taking that touch forward and hitting the shot that he just hit and you kind of go yeah thanks for coming Senegal it was exciting while it lasted but you're not at this level it was a very sort of dismissive kind of uh I wouldn't say finish from Kylian Mbappe but dismissive in the sense that you don't belong at this level this is my World Cup This is my level. Go sit down. At the moment, Ali, you're sat there. Your imaginary box contains Spain as the World Cup winners.

37:08Would you like my imaginary box that says France? Not yet, but I'm getting really close to snatching that imaginary box. By the way, this is the budget that we're working with. There are no boxes. You have to picture it. In your mind's eyes, you have to picture it. it's hard to look away from France I think that the 45 minutes and the potential of those 45 minutes it's scary to think that they can be better Spain are going to have to be significantly better than what they were against Cape Verde in order to try to match that All our box budget was spent on flying Gab and Jules over here to the States and you can listen to the latest edition of their podcast which is available now

37:57Lays is an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026. Lays is also the official sponsor of all Bandwagon fans. That's right, this summer Lays is inviting everyone to jump on the bandwagon because win or lose, what's important is keeping the party going. Bandwagon fans can have more fun, so grab a bag of Lays, gather some friends and keep the party rolling all summer long. I like things my way, my coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self-injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo Pre-Filled Syringe, which contains F-Gartigamide Alpha and Hyaluronidase QVFC. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously.

38:35It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit VivgardMyWay.com. That's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T MyWay.com. And talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenics. A lot of people fancy Norway to go a long way with Erling Haaland very much the star of the show. They kicked off their campaign against Aral. They kicked off in style with their talisman, bagging two goals as well. He wanted a third right at the end, but in the end it was awarded as an own goal. Impressive start then for Norway with a 4-1 victory. A big win, of course, in what is a tough group alongside Senegal and France.

39:20Let's welcome in, shall we, former Norwegian international, Jan Arger-Fjortov, waiting patiently. Thank you very much, Jan, for joining us. A great day to be Norwegian. Yeah, and you didn't use any of your budget for me. I'm sitting here in Europe. But anyway. I tell you what, that is one posh hotel. I'm not saying anything. Let's go to the full screen. Look at Jan's background here. This is a lodge. this is definitely an upgrade look at this I know one of the lights has gone out that's true I just I just had a power nap in my big big big big suite and I was dreaming that Messi would score three never will happen of course no it never will happen no no that will never happen no but a great day for us Norwegians as you were saying I'm not saying yet it is a group of death but when you saw Senegal in the first half you saw what they could do of course as a Norwegian I hope that France will win it because I know we got plus three, Senegal minus two.

40:20I already start counting the table, but a great day for us. We had some weaknesses, but Erling Haaland is off. And that's what we need because I think, especially in this group stage of this World Cup, it will be a bit freestyling. Just get your results going, get your confidence going. We haven't been there since 1998, and then you need the confidence. and I've been in touch with some of the boys with the national coach. And they are so, I mean, they're happy, but it's also relief that they have started off this World Cup in this matter. You will take 4-1 any day of the week. And yeah, great, great start for us.

40:59Jan, we know that you've been pretty much Erling Haaland's stalker since the moment he was born. You mentioned the fact this was his first World Cup match. Inevitable that the pressure is not going to get to him. And you saw that just as the game started. There was a lot of talking about this friendly. We played against Morocco. He touched the ball four times. Four times. Even I didn't manage to come on those numbers back in the days. But when you saw the game, boys, and we talked about it, you can see it from the first minute that he was on a mission. Not only on a mission in terms of his physical attributes, but you saw he took responsibility for the team.

41:42This is a big thing for us because it's been a whole generation or maybe two generations since we were at the World Cup and these young kids have heard about the old ghosts of Norwegian football that we used to play in the 90s at the World Cup and these guys are playing for big clubs. Erling has won the treble, he's won the Champions League. Martin Erdogan, captain of the Premier League winning team Arsenal, but they've never been at the World Cup. That's the only thing we have done them. And you can see that from the start, that they took the occasion. They were so happy to be there and they were not happy to go and just be around and see the Vikings rowing in the stands.

42:24They wanted to win that game. They wanted to get off a great start and they did. How big a deal is this in Norway, Jan? Oh, you can't imagine. I mean, I'm in the middle of the night here. We're watching those these games. Whole Norway has been, you know, Norway is not a big country in terms of five million people. We are very long from south to north and there have been screams, big screams in nearly any villages. They've been in Ullavall Stadium. Our main stadium was sold out. There were people everywhere. They were dancing in the streets. And yes, It's a great night in Oslo. It's a warm night in Oslo and the rest of the country.

43:06So this is very, very big. I mean, they say we are born with skis and that's why we are so good at Winter Olympics. But the last years, we are a soccer-mad football nation. We are a football nation. We are so happy and so proud of this team. And thank God they got a great start. Goal difference means you're top of the group, Jan. So how do you feel about going through, considering you've got Senegal and France still to come? You've got to say, with the way that the other groups have all played out, three points, in fact, could be enough. Yeah, it could. I love your way, Winger. Are there any flights arriving at your studio?

43:51But Dan, even before the World Cup, we said, yeah, if you get three points and a good goal difference, that could be enough. Eight of the best number threes. But as you will see now, different groups, you've shown that the third round will be very important. Because you'll see a Spain, there will something happen in the third round as well, talking about the groups. But the good thing for Norway is that to get off that first game with that confidence, can you imagine, put yourself in the plane or the bus going, or plane, we have to go back to our camp. You have that feeling that you're going to the game against Senegal.

44:27You know, a good game against Senegal, a draw against Senegal will take us 100 % sure. And even if we lose, we just maybe have to avoid losing big against France. But we talked about that before and I followed your discussion on France. I mean, you make the point and I've said it all along since I saw the draw. But everybody said, yeah, but maybe in the third game we can play France and they will put out the reserves. The reserves? I think the reserves in the group stage will be even better for France because they want to show Deschamps that they should play. They should play when we come to the knockout stages.

45:03But for now, this is great. I think it's more happiness, yeah, but it's also the relief that we can do it at the World Cup because this World Cup has shown it's not just to get out there, win against the so-called weaker teams. You just have to produce. and Norway did that. We're getting four goals with Erling starting off as they did. I mean, that is the best news for us ever. Norway go through? Norway goes through. I think it goes through. 100%. Norway goes through. Are you on Snapchat, Ali? What's that? Are you on Snapchat? No. No? OK. Erling Haaland is and he posted this picture, I believe he was watching.

45:46Leo Messi is a madman. Well, yes. There we are. Well, it was like this today, wasn't it? Anything you can do, I can do better. Is there any get your gun? Is that the musical? If I'm not 100 % wrong? It's unbelievable that when they produce, so Mbappé makes two, Erling says, well, I will go home, I'll do two as well. And maybe he should have the third. I think FIFA will give him the fourth one as well. That he would get the... No, they won't. Shut up with that, Jan. And I saw Alfie Holland sitting next to the Swede General Secretary of FIFA. He will get that. And I've already said to them, you have to protest on that because that was your goal, by the way.

46:28And then I was saying, because I'm doing Iceland now, I'm doing Austria. So I'm early up, so I had a nap. And I was thinking, oh, I will check out how did Argentina do. Oh, yeah, of course it did. Of course it did. Three goals. I mean, hat-trick. I mean, how old is he now? 58? And he still scores goals. You just have to be impressed. Remember that debate, who's the biggest ever? If he wins the World Cup, no. If he do like Brazil did in 62 and you were reigning champion and you win it, I mean, you have to say Pelé, maybe. We haven't seen any social media posts congratulating Messi from Cristiano Ronaldo.

47:08Oh, no. Why? No, you don't. Don't start. You hate players. I don't hate Cristiano Ronaldo. You do the same against Mbappé. I mean, Mbappé, of course he's not man of the match. Of course he's not. Because he's not tracking back. Sorry, Mbappé. You can't give it to you. What's going on? I think I agree. I thought Mbappé should have been man of the match. I heard you. You were a good lawyer. Oh, I was right. Yeah, you were right. Yeah, thank you very much, Jan. Who is Oli say anyway? Who is Oli say anyway? Where does he play? Jan, thank you very much go and enjoy Austria now we're in action against Jordan thank you very much let's just confirm shall we how things stand in Group I as the boys say Norway in a great position even if they don't pick up the points against France and Senegal it's very helpful to have a plus three goal difference

48:35There's 20 seconds you'll never get back in your life. England. Is that our budget? That's it. Straight something. Got a scrawny old Lions as well, aren't they? Oh, well. The Lions were not excited. No. They did not want to participate. Oh, well, that will put the Lions to sleep tonight. England, six wins in their heads ahead against Croatia. That's how they kick off their campaign. I want to have a tactical breakdown from Nadim and Ali, if I may.

49:09So, so, Ali. Yeah. Obviously, this is your show. This is my show now. It's my show now. I apologize if you don't like it. Natum after dark. Natum after dark. But there's a lot of talk about this England side and what the best 11 is going to be. And I think many people believe that this is possibly it. And I think the only sort of key question would be, for example, is Bellingham going to play or is Morgan Rogers going to play? And personally, I think that's a ridiculous discussion because I think Bellingham is the best matchup alongside a Harry Kane. All right, because I think you would probably agree Harry Kane is very good at sort of coming into these areas here And as long as people like Gordon and Saka can be high Then yes that can work But I think Bellingham is also brilliant in terms of finding the time to get into the box when the ball goes out wide What I love is his physicality and his sense of when to get in to try and score those goals and affect the game And if it doesn't get to him, there's gonna be a cutback to somebody like a Harry Kane So this is how most people think I'm gonna go to play and again the question You're not most people.

50:04I am not most people I am not most people. This is my show and this is how I'm gonna do things. So the only change I'm gonna make to this is I'm gonna bring in Morgan Rodgers on his left-hand side. And what are you trying to get done with Morgan Rodgers out there? I think Morgan Rodgers is obviously a fantastic player. He scored some incredible goals in the Premier League this last season. But I think a lot of the goals have come from being in and around this area. So yes, if you do play Morgan Rodgers, you lose some of the width on the left-hand side. But what I think works well for him here is I believe Nick O 'Reilly can do that job there.

50:37And best of all from this England side, what I love is the fact that there's always a combination that's to be had somewhere. If Kane comes short, Bellingham goes forward. If O 'Reilly goes high, Rodgers will come inside. If Saka comes inside, Rhys James will go high. And I think this is really one of the best and most balanced sides England have had in a very, very long time. And the options as well that we're talking about. It could be Gordon on there. It could be Rashford. But I think Rodgers is the right pick because Thomas Tuchel has loved him through the qualifying campaign And I think if you can get him in as that star there Then you've got somebody who can shoot from distance have a little bit of magic in there You've got Bellingham who obviously has their influence and what I love as well You can pop this like this and before you know you can be pressing with those two and those right behind it That to me is a very well balanced England side and Rodgers playing in a position Which not many people think he would do but I think he'd be great for this England side if he did it Well, is there something to be said that indeed if Jude Bellingham takes this position then Morgan Rogers comes out here and then you have Nick O 'Reilly having to occupy because you need some width and that width is going to be provided from Nick O 'Reilly that then this really exposes some space for Croatia to attack into or for anybody who plays against England.

51:49A natural place, a natural outlet. This guy even in his best day, he's not a great defender on the left-hand side And he's really not a good defender if he's committed to this position. So you say, so you say. But I think one thing about Nick O 'Reilly, at the start of the season, he was very much a midfielder, but he's played as left back throughout the year and defensively got better and better and better. He isn't the best left back in the world, but I guarantee you he has an impact. But again, the balance situation, Declan Rice here, his defensive tendencies for England are as good as they've probably ever had.

52:17So if there is space here, Declan Rice will tend to drift out to this side. And if that's the case, Elliot Anderson will come into this side. This team is incredibly well balanced and like I've seen in the warm-up games like I've seen throughout qualifying No movement is independent if somebody goes high somebody comes back in And one thing about this England side for sure to all the teams that they play one thing They're not guilty of is over committing so if Nico O 'Reilly does go into that space I can guarantee the people behind them will be is another point to be made look a lot of the conversation For this team hasn't been so much about whether Morgan Rogers is gonna play with Jude Bellingham or whether they're gonna have Anthony Gordon and out here, right?

52:55A lot of the conversation has been Jude Bellingham and Thomas Tuchel. It's been whether actually he is the pick for Thomas Tuchel or is Thomas Tuchel looking for a reason if Jude Bellingham doesn't give him enough to take him off the field. And if he is looking for that reason to take him off the field, the guy who would naturally take that position would seem to be more so Morgan Rodgers than anybody else. So my point would be, you have Morgan Rodgers starting on the bench because you have Anthony Gordon out here, and if you need to take Bellingham off the field, now you have Morgan Rodgers to come there.

53:28I don't see it. Well, I'm not, I'm just. I don't see it. And one of the reasons I don't see it, is just because of the relationship in terms of how they play between Bellingham and Kane. I think all of Kane's tendencies will suit Jude Bellingham's tendencies. Jude Bellingham is somebody, as you saw with Real Madrid, that you've seen throughout his career, will dart into the box at the right sort of time. Somebody who's strong enough to be able to be the lead and to post up if he needs to, but also anything in and around the edge of the box. He's got all the quality in the world. I know that you don't see it, but my thing is Thomas Tuchel has been reticent to have all sorts of belief and confidence in Jude Bellingham, at least publicly so.

54:04And the decisions that he has made is, well, I don't know about Jude Bellingham. I know about Jude Bellingham. You know about Jude Bellingham. We believe that this guy can be a presence inside the 18-yard box, and I think he should play. But what about Thomas Tuchel? Listen, over here you've heard about Nighttime Natum or whatever it is. Yes, Natum after dark. Natum after dark. Well, this is World Cup Tuchel and Jude Bellingham will be the centrepiece of this whole team. Just you watch. What about Thomas Tuchel after dark? How does that work? We'll see. All right. England against Croatia then at 4pm tomorrow.

54:38Thomas Tuchel's side, of course, looking to kick things off in style. Before that, Portugal in action against DR Congo. We've got Ghana against Panama, and then late game Uzbekistan against Colombia. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities.

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55:40Oh, that is it. That brings us to the end of today's show. Oh, England tomorrow. Hey. That's exciting. What could possibly go wrong? Those lions have inspired me. Just the two of them. There we are. There's a box. Where was it? I thought it was the three lions. I didn't think we could afford boxes. The lions bliminate them all. Stay tuned. Extra Time's next.

56:04Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Thank you very much for all of your questions. A lot of Messi-themed ones, as you can imagine. And, Nadem, your good friend Mancini, his favourite takeover of the Italy job. Well, I wouldn't expect this to be the first question. What should Italians be wary of? Everything. Just everything about him, basically. Why did he hate you? Why did he hate me? You know, the problem is I still don't know to this day. Okay. Well, obviously, I'm the problem. But in fairness to him, he won the Euros in 21 with Italy, didn't he? Yes. So he has a positive feeling there.

56:38I think he struggled a little bit in terms of his club side of things, but then he also had a death in his family, which I think he struggled with as well. So if he needs to get back and work, then there's probably no better place for him than with his own people, with the Italians. So keep him over there. Who knows? Maybe they qualify for the next World Cup. Maybe, maybe he made Nadeem after dark. We've noticed that Nadeem was very friendly until a certain time. There aren't many people that he liked, let's just say that. Did you have a manager that hated you, Ali? I think so. Yeah? I do believe my first manager with the national team did not care for me one bit.

57:15But he called you up, so there must have been some love. It got to the point to where I felt like he was calling me up just to let me know that he wasn't going to play me. Yeah. What? I know it doesn't make sense, but I was traveling all around the world and never playing. What was his name? Richard Pais. Richard? Richard Pais. So I got the sense that at the very least I don't think he had a whole lot of confidence in what I could do on the field. I just wasn't his guy. Now, maybe I wasn't as good a player as I thought I was at the time, but I felt like I was doing well with my club team. I felt like I would come into training and do well with the national team and it did not translate into playing time.

58:00And just he had guys that he liked better. Did you ever have a conversation with him? I suppose you were quite young at that stage. Yeah, that's the thing. He's the one that brings me to the national team. So it was hard for me to go and knock on his door and be like, hey, what's happening? I didn't have any status within that team. I came into a group of players that were already there. I was the outsider. Most of my career, well, all of my career was here in Major League Soccer, and it had nothing to do with some of the upbringing that some of the other players had that had played together in the youth national teams in Venezuela.

58:32I had come all the way around from the outside back into the national team. And so it was hard for me to break through. But I also felt like the manager was not helping the situation because he had his group of players. And I was just kind of like, I'm right here. Just making up the numbers. It certainly felt that way. I got a lot of freaking flyer miles out of it. Nice. And I am now a 1 million mile member in American Airlines. Congratulations, Ali. Thank you. Thank you very much. Just a fact check actually. Thank you. Mancini didn't hate me, I hated him. Okay. But I was completely irrelevant to him.

59:09Oh, that's even worse. Yeah, exactly. The way that Alice just described it in terms of like, well, I'm training today. Is there a game this weekend? Oh, good luck guys. I'm training the next day. That's the position that I was in. But like I say, I was very much not alone. Nadeem, which national team has impressed you the most so far?

59:28In terms of the feeling of like, the result that surprised me the most was the USA Paraguay one. Because Ali is the expert who said Paraguay defensively are very very solid. Well, apparently. Yeah. Allegedly. Well, Paraguay or you. But anyway. That too. USA dismantled them. But today, watching France in that second half, I thought, yeah, they're going to be very very tough to stop when they're in flight in the way that they were. So I'm going to go for France so far. Dan, which player from the England camp needs to have a fantastic game tomorrow? England-Croatia tomorrow, first game. Do you know what?

1:00:09I think if England are going to go really well in this tournament, you need the best out of Saka, who has a really bang average season. Arsenal won the title, but I don't think he was a particularly massive part of that. He's made about Arsenal again, isn't he? I'm not making about Arsenal. Well, kind of. Am I saying some... No, he just said Saka's been bang average in a season where they've won the league, but please carry on. Sorry, was he one of the main players? Make your point. Am I wrong in saying that? That's Dan Thomas. I think there were so many other players in this Arsenal team that stood up and he was injured and I just don't think he put in the performances that you...

1:00:46If I told you Arsenal won the title at the start of the season, you'd be like, wow, Saka must have had an absolute banger. And he didn't. But if England are going to win the title, I think he has to be. More so than like Kane and Bellingham and people like that. Kane's fine. Kane's going to get goals. Bellingham is world class. We've seen him do it before, haven't we? And Saka, of course, we've seen Saka do it before. I just feel that it'd be great. Wouldn't it be great to see Saka right from the off? That's a pivot. Yeah, I think it would. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Yeah, sure. A pivot?

1:01:15How is it a pivot? No, no, it's just... The question was, who did you want? And I want to see the best. No, I'm saying it's a pivot because you said, wouldn't it be great? because you said something positive about Arsenal and an Arsenal player. Right. The pivot. Wow. But yeah, it's good. Thank you. Thank you. My therapist will be proud. With Arsenal living rent-free in my liver. Yes. That's some people have reminded you of your liver. Both Mbappé and Messi look poised to surpass closest record at this World Cup. Who's your pick for who will hold the record at the end of the tournament and why?

1:01:49Great question. That is a good question. That is a good one. Well, if we think that France are looking like the team that has the highest ceiling of all the teams that we have seen play so far, you have to imagine that Kylian Mbappe is going to be scoring goals for a long time in this tournament. And so, therefore, it feels like he may have one or two extra games to get those goals that perhaps Messi will not. And so I think by the end of the tournament, potentially Mbappe will have more chances and therefore more goals. Do you concur? Yeah, I think I do. I think I do. If I'm seeing a team like France make it to the final, it's seven more matches from now.

1:02:33Mbappe is going to be playing a lot of those minutes and he's probably going to be on penalties as well. And he'll probably get a few of those. So, yeah, I'm going Mbappe. Here's another way to look at it. You saw today once Lionel Messi scored his hat-trick, the thought from Lionel Escaloni, get him off the field. Let's save him. Let's save those legs. Let's save those minutes. If there is a scenario by which Argentina wins their second match and now they're in a position where more than likely they're going to finish first in the group, there is a chance in which he doesn't play the third game or comes off the bench in the third game.

1:03:06These are things that Escaloni is thinking about just because you're trying to get the very best of Messi in the knockout round. That's yet another opportunity in which Mbappé may be able to play an extra match that Messi does not. You start doing the math. Final question. Argentina look average on paper but are world beaters on the pitch? What? Do you think they are favourites once again? What? Argentina looks average on paper? What? Defending World Cup champion Argentina looks average on paper? Can we put old on paper instead? What? You go with this narrative, aren't you? What? What narrative?

1:03:44It's four years older. How old? Yeah, but how is Argentina looking average on paper? Well, they ran away with Commonwealth qualifiers. They have very much, essentially, the same team that they had four years ago that won the World Cup. Lionel Messi is still producing. Julian Alvarez is highly sought after by just about every team in Europe. Lautaro Martinez is scoring goals for Inter. You look at the midfield, you look at the back line, and it's players that are playing at a high level just about everywhere. Emi Martinez is considered to be among the top three, top five goalkeepers in the world.

1:04:18Average on paper? What? So do you think they're favourites then, having said all of that? No. But that's far different than having a conversation about a team being average. Do you want anything? No, you can go to bed now if you want. How's your core? What? Your core? My core? You've been working? Oh my! Oh my! Oh no! Oh hello! Oh work it! Work it Natum! This is Natum, daytime Natum. This is, what is this? This is Pilates. Pilates? This is Pilates, yeah. It was a big moment in West Hartford. Wow, which way round are we? Yeah, it was a big moment in West Hartford. To have you there doing Pilates?

1:05:04To have me there doing Pilates and doing it so well, yeah. Really? Your form. No fair play, Nate. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for that though. It wasn't my idea. I want to go home. I don't want to see you doing that. But there we are. Don't reckon me like that in the future. Flexing and contracting. Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Firing your glutes. Oh, Kieran Gibbs is here. That's an awesome person. Oh, not on ESPN. Oh.

1:06:04We'll see you next time. talking to and you're right next to artists like me Lizzo so are you ready to talk to fans Spotify advertising you're among fans