Monday's Madness Recap

0:00Look, the economy is a lot right now, and if you're a small business owner, you probably feel it. You can't control interest rates or tariffs, but you can control how efficiently your business operates. Automating payroll and HR with Gusto is one of the fastest ways to cut friction and focus on what actually moves the needle. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast.

0:38Plus, don't pay a cent until you run your first payroll. And get direct access to certified HR experts to help support you through any tough HR situation. There's a reason Gusto is ranked number one on G2's highest satisfaction products list for 2026 and trusted by over 400 ,000 small businesses. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash FC and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash FC. One more time, gusto.com slash FC. The World Cup continues to bring the drama. Brazil managed to avoid the upset, but we said goodbye to the Dutch and Alvidesen to the Germans.

1:26And today, we'll see two of the best strikers as Kylian Mbappe and Erling Haaland take center stage. ESPN FC is next.

1:41What a beautiful World Cup this has been. Welcome into our ESPN FC studios. My name is Kevin Egan. What an honor it is to be alongside Shaka Hislop for a very first time. You're too kind. Ale Mareno as well. Never get this greeted. This is so good. It's nice. Yeah. See? It's good to have it for a change. Oh, man, I'm just having fun right now. The drama has been absolutely epic in this World Cup. In the round of 32, we're seeing it all play out. The bracket right now, yours is perfectly in place. Yeah, that's exactly how I called it. Four nations have booked their place into the round of 16, as you can see.

2:17Paraguay advancing past the four-time champion Germany. Canada booked their place. They will be playing against Morocco after they saw off the Netherlands on penalty kicks. And Brazil, they left it late. Martinelli with the winner against Japan. What's stood out for you so far, Shek? Well, the Germans are going home early against a Paraguay team who, let's remember, started this tournament with a 4-1 loss to the United States. I was surprised to see them even get into the knockout stages. And then Germany kind of made some of their own issues here. I thought it's a Paraguay team that you could beat.

2:52They allowed Paraguay, in fairness, to play exactly their game. Never got stretched. A little bit unlucky, I will say, in the call later on for Germany. And then the penalty shootout was the most un-German penalty shootout. We might have to get back to that. The goalkeeper. We don't have to get back to it at all. What about Brazil, Eli? Well, as it pertains to Brazil, they get the result that we thought they were going to get, but they took the Sydney crowd. As for Paraguay, they got the result that not even Paraguay thought they were going to get. And then Morocco, surprisingly so, I think for most, they were able to truly dictate the terms of the game to the Dutch, and the Dutch were all too happy to allow Morocco to essentially say, this is how we're going to play the match.

3:41That was surprising. Brazil were partying late into the night last night. The five-time champions, they left it late indeed. Dude, these are the scenes in Rio de Janeiro. I want to be there right now. And then over in Sao Paulo as well. Martinelli, such a patient build-up to that final goal. Patience. We've seen it before. I thought you just said, Kevin, that you're so happy to be here with us. And now you just said you want to be there. Now I don't feel so special anymore. I don't want to be there. I want to be right here with you. Brazil smiling right now. You look around some of the newspaper headlines here.

4:14Talk of a sixth championship, perhaps. still alive still alive they're alive and well hexas sig in vivo yeah tell you what my portuguese is nice you're cruising right now wow how come em a song that's with emotion uh kevin i'm just you know try to keep up buddy delighted to welcome in gustavo hoffman right now gustavo you're over in dallas welcoming to the show the reaction to brazil leaving it late yesterday but they get it Well, hello everybody, it's a pleasure to be here. Yesterday, I thought that I was at Santiago Bernabeu watching Real Madrid play for Carlo Ancelotti. Because so many things, so many things, so many things remind me yesterday of Real Madrid, of the last Real Madrid that won the Champions League.

5:02For example, Gabriel Martinelli. Gabriel Martinelli yesterday was the new version of Rosselló. The guy coming from the bench, no one expected that. and he scored the late goal. The late goal! It was so common to see with Real Madrid of Carlo Ancelotti at Champions League. The decision to keep Casemiro playing for Brazil. Many, many people in Brazil wanted Casemiro out of Brazil's squad, out of the Brazilian starting lineup and Carlo Ancelotti decided to keep him at a starting lineup. So I think that game by game, Brazil is getting better. Brazil was not, in my opinion, among the favorites before the tournament begins.

5:39Now I can say that Brazil is becoming a favorite to win the tournament. It's not the best team, it's not the favorite, but I think that game by game, after what I've seen in these four games of Brazil, I think that the team is getting better. It's learning from Karant a lot. Their main players, like Vinicius and Bruno Guimarães, are having a huge tournament, especially Vinicius, but also Bruno Guimarães. So I think that Brazil is getting better to be so competitive that we can say that we'll be one of the favorites in the next phase. Let's get Ali. Stevie Nichols sat here yesterday and said they should not be considered a contender for this tournament.

6:19Well, I understand where Gustavo is coming from because this may very well be, this is an unofficial stat, but this may very well be the first time that we have brought Gustavo onto this show after Brazil have won a match. Usually, he's having to defend Brazil. Now that Brazil have won, now Gustavo has them winning the World Cup. Look, there are reasons to be excited about Brazil because of what Gustavo mentioned there and the parallels between Brazil and Real Madrid. And usually how that ended up for Real Madrid on the Carlo Ancelotti was winning Champions League. And you can see the similarities.

6:55I take the point of Martinelli being the equivalent of José Luiz. I would say that he would be more like Rodrigo. But neither here nor there. What we are seeing for Brazil is a team that isn't particularly playing all that well, is absorbing some pressure, is under stress, but finds a way to win matches. And in terms of drawing parallels, and we're talking about Casemiro, something that Gustavo just mentioned, I just got done watching the 94 World Cup special on Brazil on Netflix, and it feels like there's a parallel with Dunga, that nobody wanted Dunga on the field. Nobody wants Casemiro on the field.

7:28And yet those guys seem to be proving critical to their success. And while I say that, I'll also say that the goal of Japan came after Casemiro could not keep up with Sano, the goal scorer from Japan, in which he was basically chasing the win. Come on, baby. Let me get to you. I'm going to catch you. And he never did catch. Casemiro goes on to score a goal, and now we're talking to him in a positive manner. Had that not been the case, it would be a different conversation. And Craig Burley mentioned this last night on ESPN FC. Gustavo, we talked about Casemiro and how he struggled in the first half at times, but Carlo Ancelotti understands the player that is Casemiro and understands the threat that he is further forward and clearly left him on the field, that being a masterstroke.

8:08Yeah, no, Casemiro is the man of confidence of Carlo Ancelotti in the field, he's the man of the manager on the field, so I think that Casemiro is not at the top of his career. He had a good season with Manchester United and he's a weapon for Brazil with his headers. He's the player in the five European battle leagues that more scored header goals this season. So I think that he can be a leader for Brazil. But I think that when we look to the midfield of Brazil, Bruno Guimarães is the guy. Bruno Guimarães is having a huge tournament with assets going box to box and helping a lot also Casemiro when we look to the Brazilian team defending.

8:51I understand, Sean, the excitement around this Brazil team for me comes from a couple of things. One, well, primarily their growth in this tournament so far. And I can't help but look back to Brazil in common ball qualifying, who started so poorly, and then Ancelotti comes in and they progress as they do. They started by this level poorly against Morocco in this tournament. And they continue to grow, continue to look a whole lot better. Vinicius Jr. was outstanding. Well, in that goal, at least in that game, took his goal so wonderfully well. But more involved in the play in Japan. And that has gradually progressed as this tournament has gone on.

9:31And the involvements of so many others around, whether we're talking Paqueta, whether we're talking Casemiro, everybody else. Please don't include Paqueta in that conversation. Well, I'm... Please don't. Okay. But my point being that as a team, as a group of individuals, they have gotten better with each successive game since the Morocco start. And so I sympathize with the excitement of what's to come next if they continue to improve. Can they match the big boys? And right now in a tournament that continues to show how tight things are and how easily things can go any way in terms of winners. Again, if you're Brazilian, I fully understand the excitement.

10:19I will also say this while this was a tight game and we talk about Martinelli's late goal and everything that comes with it. As a former goalkeeper, I thought Suzuki was absolutely outstanding for Japan. But for him, this would have been a runaway win for Brazil. Yeah, goalie talk. Well done. It's all about the goalkeeper. You took the scenic route and then made it about the goalkeeper. You know, one of the things that really... I love your Real Madrid comparison. It's something we had talked about yesterday, Gustavo. Even the patience of Guimarães and the pass toward the end. There was no panic for Brazil.

10:53Even deep in stoppage time. Even when Carlo Ancelotti takes it to Neymar. Inevitably, he was going to be asked about Neymar post-game. And he said, quote, I was waiting for extra time. I talked it over with him. If we didn't score the equaliser, He was coming in around the 60th or 65th minute. I just didn't want to change the structure because we had control of the match. Even that sort of an answer. He's a political genius in a lot of ways, isn't he? Yep. No, he's a leader. He's a leader. He's a true leader. And a manager like him, everybody will respect his decisions, including Neymar. Including Neymar.

11:28No, I can tell you, no Brazilian manager nowadays would deal with Neymar how Carlo Ancelotti is dealing. He has a size in the history of football to do this kind of thing. So I think that Carlo Ancelotti really knows what to do with the Brazilian squad. I don't know if Brazil will win or won't win the World Cup. My point is the team is getting better. The team is improving game by game to become a contender. Now I don't think that Brazil is a container. France is a much better team. But I think that with our history in football, with Cairn Ancelotti, and with our individual skills, like Vinicius Junior, one more comparison to Real Madrid.

12:10Cairn Ancelotti with Brazil now is getting the best version of Vinicius Junior. The version that we used to see with Real Madrid and with Cairn Ancelotti, not with Xavi Alonso or Arbelova, with Cairn Ancelotti. So this is my point. I think that Brazil is improving to become a contender during this World Cup. Somebody's a Real Madrid fan. All right, great stuff. Gustavo, thank you so much for joining us here today. The game coming up shortly from Dallas. And we will be back here on YouTube, ESPN FC. Go and hit subscribe and join the action with us here in studio. Follow the Ivory Coast-Norway game.

12:45That is going to be a belter. Meanwhile, Paraguay, they're celebrating in style and rightly so. Germany dumped out of the World Cup in the round of 32. That's it.

12:59Look, the economy is a lot right now. And if you're a small business owner, you probably feel it. You can't control interest rates or tariffs, but you can control how efficiently your business operates. Automating payroll and HR with Gusto is one of the fastest ways to cut friction and focus on what actually moves the needle. Gusto is online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast.

13:37Plus, don't pay a cent until you run your first payroll, and get direct access to certified HR experts to help support you through any tough HR situation. There's a reason Gusto is ranked number one on G2's highest satisfaction products list for 2026 and trusted by over 400 ,000 small businesses. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash FC and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash FC. One more time, gusto.com slash FC. Good energy in. Good energy out.

14:23Storm. Zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine and immunity support. Storm. Energy for life. Scenes in Paraguay last night. A night to savour and remember forever as Paraguay dump out the mighty Germany. The four-time champions done on penalties against Paraguay. Alfaro's men advance to the round of 16. Jubilation for Paraguay, utter devastation for the Germans who could hardly believe it. Knocked out at the group stage in the last two World Cups, sent packing here in the round of 32. We got the thoughts on ESPN FC last night of German World Cup winner Jürgen Klinsmann. The way we went out tonight is devastating, it's an embarrassment.

15:12Everything from the The top to the bottom needs to be questioned from the coaching staff to the Federation to every single player that was called into this 26-man roster. Everyone is part of this disaster. As a four-time World Cup champion, the expectations are winning the World Cup. And if you don't reach at least the semifinal, it's a disappointment. I remember I reached only the quarterfinals in 94 and 98 after we won it in 90. and I was hiding for three months afterwards because we just felt like we lost our faces and this team definitely lost its face. The guilt is on everybody. The guilt is on everybody.

15:56This reaction in the German papers, the next nightmare for German football. Delighted to welcome in Archie Rintutnow. Archie, you heard from Jürgen Klinsmann, your reaction to what's played out and maybe the reaction back in Germany too. a humiliation a disaster and i think that when you look at the trend you can go out of a world cup once and you can say it's an anomaly but for three consecutive world cups for this to happen this truly is a dark time for german football and i think the part of what's gone on here is there were big structural changes around the start of the 2000s that happened in german football but But the problem is they've gone too far the other way now.

16:42And you look at, and when I say going too far the other way, what do I mean? I'm talking about how they overestimate what they have. There is a lot of football knowledge there, but I think they're putting it, they're putting the emphasis on the wrong things. And Julian Nagelsmann is a great symbol for this because he's always thinks that he has a tactical answer to every question. But the answer isn't, but the question isn't always a tactical one. And I think that the biggest answer in terms of a coach that they have and the best German coach out there right now, we all know his name, Jürgen Klopp.

17:16The best thing that he does isn't tactics. He's a fantastic man manager and motivator above all. He understands people. And I think that Germany needs to take a step down and say, look, as they have after yesterday and said, look, we are a second tier nation right now. And instead of trying to dominate opponents, which quite frankly, there isn't the quality of player there right now. They need to accept that and say, OK, how do we change your approach? Because as Jürgen says, originally when I was thinking about it last night, I was like, maybe the answer is in the middle. But then I made a list and I looked at the length of the list and I thought, you know what?

17:59How can the answer be in the middle? Particularly when we come back to the headline, when you fail at three World Cups. And I think that this is probably the worst of them, actually, because you're showing that you are not learning the lessons of the previous mistakes. Also, you consider the loss to Ecuador. You consider the way they played yesterday against Paraguay, actually, a side that the U.S. scored four against Ale. I mean, where do you stand on this? It's been coming. And the signs have been there all along. And German football have chosen to ignore those signs. There is a lot to look at when it comes to German football and this national team and contrast it and compare it to what's going on with Italy.

18:40And you can see how they're both heading in the wrong direction. The only difference is that Germany has been able to make the World Cup, whereas Italy have not. And so Italy seems to be in full collapse, whereas Germany is like, no, we're good. We're good. Are they, though? That's what I was about to get to, Kevin. Thanks for the patience. I appreciate that. Because you keep making it and you keep thinking that you're going to do well, then you don't realize that, oh, no, we're not good. The parachute is not coming. The handbrake is not coming. And you're pumping the brake and it's like, oh, no, no, we are terrible.

19:17We're terrible. And as it pertains to being terrible, I'll say this much. At the very basic level of this German national team, they're short in talent. They're short in ability to play. They're short in players. They do not have a right back. Germany does not have a right back. And so therefore, you have to play Joshua Kimmich out there, I guess. And because you don't have a right back, then Joshua Kimmich, who's probably your best midfielder, now is not playing in the midfield. So now you have to scramble in the middle of the park. A team like Germany scrambling in the middle of the park. A team like Germany scrambling to find a center forward.

19:54This is the land of Jürgen Klinsmann, of Rudi Fela. Mirov La Closa who up until two weeks ago was the all time leading goal scorer in the World Cup this is the land of those players and yet we're having to scramble is it Dennis Hundef, is it Kai Havers could it be one of them? Well neither one of them is really good enough to be the number nine for Germany, for Germany for the standards of Germany and the young players who were supposed to be sort of the revelation of this team it wasn't until late yesterday when we started to see the very best from Jamal Musiala We're still waiting from the very best of Florian Verst.

20:29So when you look at it, in the totality of it all, we can talk about Julian Augustman, of course. We can talk about German football in general, of course. But if you just go down to the very basic level of players on the field, simply not good enough. It could have been very different, though, Xhaka. Had that goal been allowed for Jonathan Ta, our discussion here is totally different here this morning. It really could have been. And maybe that's papering over the cracks. I'll be honest I looked at this a few times I do not see a foul Hale crashes into Anton who is standing in position doesn't move position even though the ball goes over his head I don't think he has to move he had position Hale crashes into him adjusting for that deep cross I did not see a foul in this So I don't know why it was deemed enough to go to VAR review, let alone overturn the decision.

21:29The damning evidence, Shaq, I think, is that Anton is never looking at the ball. He's always looking at the goalkeeper. The ball is happening. And I'm not suggesting it's a foul, but the fact that he's there and kind of on the way, impeding the goalkeeper and not looking at the ball, that's where I think VAR hangs on to it and says, yeah, this seems like a foul. But even so, my point being, if Anton is a yard or two away and steps into that position while looking at Hill as the ball goes over his head, I understand if you give that a foul. But for me, he's standing there when the cross comes over.

22:06You don't have to convince me. I can't believe what I'm hearing right now. I'm kind of understanding all the conversation around it. I'm not saying that it's used specifically. But I've heard this comment and I just don't see it. I really don't. Jurgen Klopp essentially saying that Arsenal wouldn't have won the league had these calls been made. That's not a conversation altogether. Archie, is this even a topic in Germany right now or are they focusing on bigger issues? Bigger issues. You cannot go out of three World Cups like they have and say, oh, but the one decision didn't go our way. You know, there's a phrase in German, the way they say coulda, woulda, shoulda is hetter, hetter, fahrrad, kette, which is talking about a bike chain.

22:50But, you know, that's by the by. Point is, you can't keep complaining about that. You when you have 120 minutes against Paraguay and you create as little as they did with as much of the ball as they had, there are bigger problems at your door. and that's despite the fact that I think because people see that they've got players at big clubs they think, oh okay, well this means we are something but look at how they perform and the results aren't good enough. We've often heard the three certainties, right? Death, taxes and Germany winning on penalty kicks. It wasn't the case yesterday. Looking at the record over the years these are the players that have missed penalties and shootouts for Germany in the World Cup.

23:36You've got to go all the way back to 1982 and then the three lads from last night. What a stash by Stelike. Incredible stash. Here's Jürgen Klinsmann on this. They were not prepared for penalty shootout, which is for us insane because we love penalty shootouts usually. I expect whoever gets on that spot that this player is prepared for the penalties to take. And I saw a German team the first time in a long, long time that the players were not prepared to take their penalties, which is for me insane. I mean, we all saw the images, Shaka. It looked like Joshua Kimmich asking teammates, are you up?

24:13Are you going to take it? It seemed like a bit of a disaster. It is. Players turning down the opportunity. I don't understand that. Listen, I would never criticize a player for missing a penalty, as Jonathan Thar did. He stepped in as a centre-back to do, in an ask, that many attacking players simply would not. Especially, and you saw these stats, so you understand kind of the history and what you thought of as almost a culture in our philosophy around German football, that you step into those big occasions and you are there to be counted and you make them count. All of a sudden now, kind of almost in keeping with what we've seen of German football over the last 12 years, players are afraid to take that responsibility, afraid to put themselves in those moments of high pressure.

25:05which I did not think I would ever see in my lifetime. And to see it play out in real time just adds to the disappointments around German football. Archie, is this being discussed in Germany right now? Yeah, I think you see those names there. You see Volta Mada, Havertz, Tarr. And yet the thing that sticks out to me is who didn't put their hand up? And the fact that Leon Goretzka had to be asked twice by Joshua Kimmich. and I've seen the video. You can see that Kimmich is going, okay, who's taking, okay. So Nene Brown, one of the younger players in the team, you'll take eight. Leon, ninth. Okay.

25:45Leon Goretzka is one of the senior members of this squad. He's one of the people who should be standing up and taking responsibility. And he's had his struggles in the last few years at Bayern Munich. And I sympathize with that. But in this situation, he has to be putting his hand up. It speaks for the bigger problems that this team's had in terms of leaders, which is kind of ironic given that earlier in this tournament, everyone's talking about how good the mood is within the camp. And is that because enough difficult conversations are being had? And yeah, this is symbolic of what is a failure at all levels, frankly.