In short
The episode is a wide-ranging ESPN FC/Extra Time discussion focused on football controversies and form. Main topic: Jose Mourinho’s post-match “damage control” after Real Madrid lost 2-1 to Atletico Madrid, with guests debating whether Mourinho’s press-conference focus on alleged missed red cards was deflection.
Key claims
Real Madrid were “very poor” and deserved to lose; Mourinho clouded the issue by highlighting two red-card incidents that VAR and the referee didn’t agree with; one specific “Lee”/challenge at 0-0 should have changed the narrative; refereeing control (especially without VAR) was criticized as dangerous.
Notable examples
Real Madrid’s lack of midfield control since Modric/Kroos (and Casemiro) left; Vinicius and Mbappe heat-map overlap leading to predictable defending; Barcelona’s early-season surge (31 goals in seven games) and Rafinha’s hat trick.
Guests
Dan Thomas (host), Craig Burley (former player/analyst), Stevie Nichol (former player/coach/analyst), and Ian Dark (match caller/guest who was “on the call” for the Atletico game). Later segments cover England’s “load management” and Cole Palmer’s absence, plus Liverpool and Manchester United early-season struggles.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMourinho's Post-Match Press Conference
0:42 to 1:04
Discussion on the implications of Mourinho's remarks after the derby loss.
“Not much happening and still the ramifications of that post-match press conference after Real Madrid lost against Atletico Madrid are apparent.”
Mourinho's Tactics and Team Performance
1:04 to 1:30
Analyzing Mourinho's diversionary tactics and Real Madrid's poor performance.
“We haven't had you on since everything that happened afterwards.”
The Derby Dynamics
1:30 to 2:31
Exploring the significance of derby matches and the impact of officiating.
“I mean, he may or may not have had an argument.”
Real Madrid's Struggles and Team Cohesion
2:31 to 3:40
Discussing Real Madrid's ongoing issues and lack of control in midfield.
“Elche almost got back into it, didn't they?”
Player Performance and Midfield Control
3:40 to 4:55
Examining the individual performances and midfield dynamics for Real Madrid.
“And that's not a good look at this moment in time.”
Mourinho's Challenges and Team Setup
4:55 to 6:19
Insights into Mourinho's struggles to set up the team effectively.
“But aren't Real Madrid big enough and strong enough to be able to beat Atletico Madrid with 11 men?”
Vinicius Junior and Mbappe's Impact
6:19 to 7:28
Discussing the dynamics between Vinicius Junior and Mbappe on the field.
“But that being said, whether it's a Derby or not and that would have affected the game or not, it's just more of the same of what we've seen all season.”
Preparing for El Clasico
7:28 to 12:20
The importance of preparation ahead of the upcoming El Clasico match.
“he's running about a bit more, but he's not doing a lot.”
Barcelona's Dominance and Player Relationships
12:20 to 14:00
Analyzing Barcelona's strong performance and player-coach relationships.
“I don't know how many games there are before it, but if they go into that in bad form still and get a pasting in that game, I mean, we're almost talking about league win over.”
Rafinha's Rise at Barcelona
14:00 to 16:27
Learn how Rafinha has transformed into a key player for Barcelona under Hansi Flick.
“Of course, he can improve, we can improve.”
Show all 20 chapters
The Importance of Man Management
16:27 to 21:15
Explore the significance of man management in football coaching and player relationships.
“You could argue currently, I'm saying currently, there's an argument for saying he's the best, most effective forward in the world.”
The Challenges of Keeping Players Happy
21:15 to 23:11
Discuss the challenges managers face in keeping star players satisfied and the impact on team dynamics.
“Inter Milan, but they put their bodies on the line for Jose Mourinho.”
The Challenges of Keeping Players Happy
23:20 to 24:23
Discuss the challenges managers face in keeping star players satisfied and the impact on team dynamics.
“as Craig says, just a couple of games before our Clásico, the first of which at home against Villarreal.”
The Challenges of Keeping Players Happy
24:47 to 25:26
Discuss the challenges managers face in keeping star players satisfied and the impact on team dynamics.
“for a better feel in your hands and less weight on your shoulders.”
International Break and Player Decisions
25:28 to 28:00
Analyze player choices during international breaks and implications for club performance.
“England in action against Spain this weekend.”
Cole Palmer's World Cup Exclusion Debate
28:00 to 35:44
Explore the heated discussion around Cole Palmer's exclusion from the England squad and the implications for his career.
“to make Thomas Tuchel sit up and take notice?”
Liverpool's Season Assessment
36:10 to 42:00
Analyze Liverpool's start to the season and the challenges they face moving forward.
“I tell you what, it doesn't look as bad when you see it in black and white.”
Manchester United's Current Struggles
42:00 to 47:48
Discussion on Manchester United's disappointing season and player performance.
“You wouldn't think of the momentum that they had at the back end of last season, climbing up to an undreamt of third place, really.”
Manchester United's Current Struggles
47:58 to 48:53
Discussion on Manchester United's disappointing season and player performance.
“to put off because it doesn't feel urgent today.”
Manager Stories and Their Impact
56:00 to 1:04:48
The hosts discuss their experiences with serious football managers and memorable interactions during their careers.
“The connection between them all, everybody would say, was they were all miserable.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Ian Darke:Rich Eisen here. Running a small business means every hire matters. A bad hire costs time and money, but the right one helps your business grow. The challenge? Finding that person without sorting through resumes. That's where LinkedIn Hiring Pro comes in. It screens candidates so you can focus on conversations with qualified talent. With Hiring Pro, you can hire with confidence and build the team you need. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash Eisen. Terms and conditions apply.
0:34Ian Darke:Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas. Craig Burley returns today. Stevie Nichol with us in the studio as well. Not much happening and still the ramifications of that post-match press conference after Real Madrid lost against Atletico Madrid are apparent. It is still all over the news in Spain. Unhinged is quite a nice way to sum things up from Jose Mourinho's post-match press conference where he lauded the referees. Not a happy man. Ian Dark joins us. Ian, of course, you were on the call for this game. We haven't had you on since everything that happened afterwards. What's your take on it all?
1:12Ian Darke:I think it's classic diversionary tactics by Jose Mourinho because the real story there was that Real Madrid were very poor in that game. They deservedly lost. 2-1 actually flattered them a bit. So Mourinho came in with the printout of what he alleged to be two red cards. I mean, he may or may not have had an argument. The referee didn't think they were. VAR didn't think they were. So that debate goes on. He might have had a case, but he's managed to cloud the issue. And the issue really was that why were Real Madrid so poor in that game? They were outplayed by Atletico, who deservedly took the three points.
1:52Jose Mourinho:But do you know when people say he's, what was the word you used there? Deflecting. He's deflecting. I'm not sure really that works too much these days. It's an old trick. Yeah, I mean, it's an old trick. And for those that watch the game and for those that have watched Real Madrid at the start of the season, and those Real Madrid fans, they saw what they saw. They watched what they watched and so did the Spanish press. The other stuff was just a story and it's a headline. But the performance and performances don't go away. I mean, is it Betis away? Espanol away was a late winner. There's been...
2:35Ian Darke:Elche almost got back into it, didn't they? They were three... Yeah, yeah. That was the late goal from ESP.
2:39Jose Mourinho:And so, I'm not sure... You know, we talked about it. How long would the happy Mourinho start at the season? ah, it's great, you know, ESPN is the winner, this is fantastic. Vinny Jr., he's really happy. Oh, everybody's on song. And now it's changed. We're not even in October yet. And it's already swung to defensive, to everybody else's fault. And I think it's because, or I know it's because probably, he's getting the same problems in a sense that Alonso got, is that he can't get the right tune out of this team in terms of being consistent. And also, as you guys were talking about over the weekend, Barcelona are absolutely flying.
3:27Jose Mourinho:And that's absolutely killing them. But I'm not sure the fact that he's waffling on about the red cards that were and were not, or should have been and were not given. I'm not sure that's taken away a lot from what we saw. And also the table does not lie. And that's not a good look at this moment in time. Steve if we were to give you a colour printer
3:49Ian Darke:how long would it take you to set this up I've actually got a little bit of sympathy here for Mourinho because I don't disagree that they were rotten they didn't play well and they haven't been playing well but at the end of the day this is a derby and every single person I've listened to has said this was a bit of a throwback because both teams were at it there was loads of fouling, could have been red cards derbies are not about playing well, Derby's about getting a result. And the fact that at 0-0 Lee should have been sent off, I think Marini has got a case. Because that completely changes the whole narrative.
4:27Ian Darke:Why does it change the narrative when it's still 11 against 11? Because it's a Derby. You know, it seems like we're concentrating on how they played. I can assure you, I played in a lot of Derbys. And I can count on the back of my hand how many we played well in. Because Derby's not about playing well. It's about winning the game. And the fact that they should have been down Atletico Madrid to 10 men is a big thing. And so that's why I've got some sympathy with Real Madrid. But aren't Real Madrid big enough and strong enough to be able to beat Atletico Madrid with 11 men? Why do you need an extra man advantage?
5:03Ian Darke:Well, Real Madrid, for the last 50 years, every time they step on the field on paper, should be good enough, strong enough, big enough to win. But that's not how Derbys work. And I keep labouring the point. That is my point. This is a derby. And this is a game where Atletico Madrid didn't give them a second. They were in their face. They were fouling. The referee didn't really take control of Atletico Madrid. And so that's why I'm feeling a little bit for Mourinho, because the Lee one in particular completely changes this game. And you could have seen Real Madrid maybe playing well, but we could have seen Real Madrid win the game, and then it would have been, well, they won again.
5:46Ian Darke:So that's why I've got a bit of sympathy for Mourinho.
5:49Jose Mourinho:But I think there's a... Look, that challenge that we saw there, the fact that... I'll give the referee a bye. He missed it. I think a referee without VAR, back in the day, doesn't seem that long ago, but it's a few years now, I think a referee would have spotted that. I think they're all hesitant now. They're waiting for that help. And the fact that it didn't come is quite frankly a disgrace. So, Steve is right. They have a major point on that one. That is a head-scratcher beyond belief because it's dangerous. It's from behind. It's almost crumpling the ankle over. It's halfway up the calf. It ticks every box.
6:31Jose Mourinho:But that being said, whether it's a Derby or not and that would have affected the game or not, it's just more of the same of what we've seen all season. That's the point. there is no real difference in this Real Madrid side. There's no cohesion, is there, you feel? And look, how are they different, apart from some new players here and there, to last year before Alonso was sacked and before Arboloha came in as the interim? What is different? Vinicius Junior working a bit harder? Is that the difference? I don't know, maybe a little bit more solid at right back? Bellingham certainly started the season better, there's not a shadow of a doubt.
7:08Jose Mourinho:that he's been the shining light as he has been and he was for England in the summer and Mbappe's getting the goals. Those things are billing him apart. The Mbappe goals were there last year. There has been no... In fact, you could argue after a six-year contract, when it's his junior's performances have got worse. The stats may tell you he's running about a bit more, but
7:31Ian Darke:he's not doing a lot. They've never replaced Cruz and Modric. In the middle of the park, they have never been the same and since those two guys left it's always been who should play who's playing, should they play I mean the fact that they didn't get Rodri is huge because he might have been the guy that would change it but since those two left they've had no control in the middle of the park and so if you've got guys up front like Vinny and Mbappe who need extra help because you know it's a tossing a coin whether they're chasing or not but if you've got no control in the middle of the park the whole thing's falling apart
8:04Jose Mourinho:Sorry, Ian, to an extent that they're thinking about, or they have played Alexander Arnaud in there because they need a passer. That didn't work. I can't remember the game that he played, sat in front of the back four, didn't look great defensively, no surprise. Adeguiler, who Mourinho's talked about, they're saying that could be his position down the line, but Mourinho hasn't got down the line kind of time, has he? He just don't get that at Real Madrid. So they don't have that passer, that balance in the midfield. Yeah, they have Bellingham from that number 10 role, who will do a bit of both and has been brilliant.
8:37Jose Mourinho:But who can too many of Valverde really pass and stroke the ball about? No, they can't. What do you make of what the boys are saying, Ian?
8:45Ian Darke:Well, I generally agree with that. It would be worrying because one of the things that would have worried me if I was a Real Madrid fan was the period after they'd gone 2-0 down in the game where they appeared to show absolutely no urgency or have any kind of plan at all to try at least to get back in the game. OK, that was going to be difficult with 10 players, but they look to have kind of accepted the situation. They got a little bit of a, I won't call it a gif, but it was a set piece. They could get Rudiger forward. It's the only way they were going to score. They get one and it sets up a frantic finish to the game where they might have even rescued a point, but they didn't deserve to rescue it.
9:25Ian Darke:I mean, yeah, obviously Stevie's right about the lack of control in midfield since Modric and Kroos have left. But those are two mighty difficult players to replace. And of course, before that, they had Casemiro as part of that as well, didn't they? So, yeah, Valverde and Schuermann are no rivals to the three players I've just mentioned. Talk to me about Mbappe and Vinicius Junior, Stevie, because this has been doing the rounds, the heat map, that they're pretty much playing on top of each other. how much of an issue is that and how much does that need addressing or I'm sure people have tried to address it well if I'm playing against Real Madrid I'm delighted because I know where they're going to be right I mean it's as simple as that you know that there's very little going to come down the other side so you're set up I mean you've cut the field in half almost so it's obviously less time, less space it's way easier to defend so as I said all of those things it's fantastic from a defensive point of view Number one, you know where they're going to be.
10:24Ian Darke:And number two, you're always going to have men round about there because you know where they are. And there's nothing new, isn't it, Greg? We've seen that since Mbappe arrived two years ago.
10:32Jose Mourinho:And the problem is Mbappe's still getting... He's still got the churn in terms of the goals. It's Vinicius Junior with this new contract that's doing pretty much nothing. So it's going to fall on him. And also on the other side, they brought in Diamandi, who it's been... I'm not going to say it's been a struggle for him, but it's not been... He hasn't hit the ground running. No, he hasn't. And look, there's a lot of money from... He's a young guy stepping out of the Bundesliga into La Liga, into the Bernabeu, Real Madrid, the pressure of that with the aura of Mourinho and all that sort of stuff.
11:08Jose Mourinho:So really and truly, that's why it is sort of condensed down that left-hand side. And there isn't that switch of play. There's no doubt. There is no doubt that Real Madrid's strength, if Vinicius Junior was playing well, is down that channel. But the fact that he's over there as much, Mbappe, is okay if they're linking up and they're making it work. But I don't think they are sort of often enough. So, yeah, I mean, look, this is no surprise. We always knew this was going to turn quickly for Mourinho and probably not in a good way. We talked about it in the summer. We said it was going to be box office stuff.
11:48Jose Mourinho:Here we are, press conferences, blame game, referees, all that sort of stuff. This is taking only a couple of months. And we said it when he got the job. This is going to be great for us as a network watching it because there's going to be a lot of stories. And we've got this classical at the end of October. And at the moment, they need to make sure after this international break, whenever the hell that finishes, that they do whatever they need to do before this El Clasico to get back on the rails. Because if they go into that, I don't know how many games there are before it, but if they go into that in bad form still and get a pasting in that game, I mean, we're almost talking about league win over.
12:30Ian Darke:I don't know whether it's just me, but I always giggle when I watch them. You know, it's almost like whenever they try and play together, there's nothing natural about it. I just imagine you giggling. Honestly. And every time they try and play together, and it doesn't work because generally it doesn't work they're both given all this and I'm sitting giggling they're just sometimes so hard to be good together but they can't dare and they're all waving my bad my bad all the time it just makes me giggle Greg mentioned it what doesn't happen as well that you've got Barcelona perfect start to the season not only that they're playing brilliant attractive football with Rafinha very much the star of the show the perfect hat trick at the weekend He talked about his relationship with Hansi Fleck.
13:17Ian Darke:The hug you shared with Hansi Fleck, I know you get asked about it a lot, but I don't know if there's a coach-player relationship as strong in the league right now
13:26Jose Mourinho:as the one you have with your coach. Do you feel that?
13:32Ian Darke:I can't comment on other relationships, but the truth is, I've always said it, and I always say it, he is the coach who changed my mentality within the club and what I thought about myself. I'm very grateful to him, and I'll show it to him whenever I can.
13:49Ian Darke:Coach, congratulations. I was asking Rafinha, is there anything you can do more? Because I don't know if Rafinha can do anything else for his team. He said, I always have to improve.
14:01Jose Mourinho:This is the attitude I like. Of course, he can improve, we can improve. It's like a normal life.
14:10Ian Darke:So you always have to improve. It's all like this is all turning into disaster, obviously, because it's football and you never know what's going to happen. But it seems that Hansi Flick has been able to get the best out of this player and then some.
14:24Jose Mourinho:Yeah. And again, for the umpteenth time, this is the player that looked as if he was on his way out when Nico Williams was coming in. And it was looking like too much for him and it was inconsistent. And then all of a sudden Hansi Flick comes in and from that left-hand side he's just making these dynamic runs and he's scoring goals, he's linking up with Lewandowski and Firmin Lopez and whoever it was and we always knew Laminya Mal would really stick on that right-hand side which he does but this fella's had a kind of license, not to do what he wants but to make those out-to-end runs and then we saw this sort of little process of him maybe playing as a number 10 behind Lewandowski never quite felt that was really going to work for him and the fact that Lewandowski got to his age and the fact that Ferran Torres wanted to move on and probably felt that he wasn't going to be the number nine and all of a sudden Rafinha steps into that role and he's got the movement, thus far this is, he's got the movement of Lewandowski in the box, he's got the mobility of Ferran Torres around the pitch, making runs, dropping off, spinning in behind and he's got the finishing in the final third, which is the most important thing as well.
15:42Jose Mourinho:It can't have gone any better. Yeah, they did buy a striker in Gabriel Jesus. They didn't get Julian Alvarez. But even if Julian Alvarez had come in for big money, where was Julian Alvarez going to go and be fitted into this team, apart from coming in as a squad player? Because you're not dropping any of that front line for Rafinha, not at this moment in time.
16:05Ian Darke:Unless you're an opposition fan, Ian, Barcelona is so much fun to watch. Yeah, they're absolutely in scorching form. What is it? 31 goals already in seven games. And Rafinha, I think, is 12 goals in seven matches. So, as Craig was saying, who needs Julian Alvarez? I mean, it's not going to happen anyway. He's not going to Barcelona. But Rafinha has made fantastic strides. You could argue currently, I'm saying currently, there's an argument for saying he's the best, most effective forward in the world. And of course, he's not on that shortlist for the Ballon d 'Or. That's OK, because he was injured for a lot of the time that the Ballon d 'Or decision is made over.
16:48Ian Darke:But he's going to be a future contender. I remember Flick being really, really annoyed when he wasn't in that FIFA World Best 11 when he was in red hot form then as well. I mean, he had the injuries, didn't he, last season? And he got injured in the World Cup as well. Otherwise, it might have been a bit of a different story for Brazil. They missed him. When you were coaching, Stevie, what did you say to players to try and get this sort of relationship or to get them to the next level? What was your tactic? You know, I was thinking about it while you were all talking there. And the man management side of it is a natural thing.
17:26Ian Darke:Right. You know, we see today coaches have got more badges coming out you know where because they've got to go in this course. And you've got to do that course. And PowerPoint. You cannot go to school to do man management. You've either got it or you haven't got it. Yes, you can refine it. But if you look at all the best teams that I've ever played, every single one of them, every manager, every player would run through a brick wall for them. and you don't always have to get your tactics right all these technical things are fantastic when you get it all right but if you've got a team on the field that are running the last bit of breath out themselves for the guy who's picked them and sat on the bench you've got a chance you've really got a chance this 100 % is man management at its best and as I said you can't go to school for that you've either got it and you and I guess the biggest thing would be that you care about each individual.
18:25Ian Darke:That would probably be the key to it. Who did you have, Stevie, in your career? In my career, I had... You look back and think, right. I had McLean, I had Paisley, I had Souness, I had Dalgleish. Never heard of them. I had Jockstein. It's not bad. Yeah, I mean, would have run through a brick wall for them. You know, they would have done anything for you. Because they want the team to win, but because they care about you. That's the biggest thing. If you're manager, you know He cares about you. He obviously cares about the team and the squad. But when you care about everybody, not just one guy, you see that as well.
19:00You see that he's interested in the guy who's sat on the bench all season, played two games,
19:05Ian Darke:but you see him keeping him going and looking after him. You can't teach that. You've got it. It's in you. There's something in you.
19:13Jose Mourinho:Even if you look at arguably the most successful manager in the last decade or so, Guardiola, Everybody thinks it's about the fact that he was the first to invert the full-backs and do all this. And that's fine. But if he doesn't have the other side to the game, the management side, that doesn't work. If you watch these little clips that are on some of the networks, some of these documentaries, about how he deals with players and how he is in dressing rooms at halftime and how he deals with the superstars, that's why they wanted to play for him. And maybe at the end he felt he was losing some of that.
19:44Jose Mourinho:allegedly the fallout with Kyle Walker before he left and one or two others. And maybe he felt that things were changing for him and he was losing that grasp on the players that he seemed to have for years. Because you can invert fullbacks and get wide guys to tuck in and do all that all you want. But if the players don't want to come and train Monday through Saturday for you and put it in, it's useless. And our colleague, Jürgen Klinsmann, has always said, who obviously knows Hansi Flick very well he says he is brilliant at managing individuals and situations and that gives these guys the best platform to go out and play well because they're happy.
Read the full transcript
20:25Jose Mourinho:If they're fit and they're happy then they've got a chance because they've got a structure and that's what he does and so that gives the whole team the best opportunity to go out and win. If you've got a manager that knows every tactic under the sun and watches every other game under the sun and knows what every team does and every set piece that they do and all that sort of stuff, that's fine. But then you're sending out 11 individuals onto your pitch and five or six of them hate you, don't want to work with you. It's just not going to work. So you have to have both sides of it. And the question is with Mourinho, is he always had that.
21:04Jose Mourinho:And that's why the Porto players did what they did for him. That's why the Chelsea players did what they did for him. Inter Milan, right? They weren't the most attractive team to watch, Inter Milan, but they put their bodies on the line for Jose Mourinho. The question is, does he still have the aura and the temperament and the wherewithal to get the players to think of him that way? Or are they looking at him thinking, when this is going wrong here, he's going to send it our way? That's the big question. What you're saying,
21:39Ian Darke:seems quite simple. In a sense, you've got to try and keep your squad happy, keep everybody happy, have a great relationship. So why is it so rare to see managers who are so good at it? I think the biggest thing is the ego side of it. Right. So like Nagelsmann, who completely lost the Germany squad, you think...
21:58Jose Mourinho:Well, it's more difficult to keep a bunch of superstars happy, which most of these managers have. That's why it's a rarity, because that's much more difficult. Which Xavi Alonso found out, obviously,
22:07Ian Darke:making that jump from Bayou to Madrid. Yeah. No, when you put your own ego aside and it's about them and then they know it's about them and not you at all, then, I mean, you're halfway there. But as soon as you get a guy who you're like, hold on, Craig said, they're thinking he's going to toss it on them. Right. I mean, if you're thinking that way, you've got no chance. But if it's the other way around where they know, hey, this guy's going to back me up. He's not going to throw me under the bus. He's always going to look after me. So guess what? I'm going to look after him. I mean, again, you said it.
22:47Ian Darke:It seems really sensible and really smart. I'll tell you what, you go around managers around all the leagues, never mind just the top leagues. Guys in League 2 and 3, they all think it's about them, some of them. Big egos, like Ian. Yeah, exactly. He makes a commentary all about him. It's a shame. No, there you go. You wouldn't want me to go, should I? You'd be great, Ian. Go, go, go. You need to have a band of brothers kind of mentality. And I'm not sure that's even possible at Real Madrid. Well, Real Madrid back in action when the international break finishes, as Craig says, just a couple of games before our Clásico, the first of which at home against Villarreal.
23:26Ian Darke:Barcelona, meanwhile, against Getafe. Those games all live on the ESPN app.
23:31Jose Mourinho:Horrible, that noise.
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25:25Ian Darke:A cold lot of bother. Tuchel hit by a wave of cold-offs. Palmed off. England in action against Spain this weekend. But Cole Palmer not in the squad. Ian, you love this phrase, don't you? Load management. Well, I had to laugh when I saw that because Cole Palmer played 90 minutes in Chelsea's last game. So whatever his injury problem is, and we haven't heard much about it before this, it wasn't evident at Brentford last Friday. So it doesn't look good. OK, he might have developed the injury. I don't know. I'm not there. But it kind of looks like he's taking the view. Now, this game doesn't matter too much, even though it's England against the world champions.
26:14Ian Darke:And he's decided to take some time off. I think he really should have been wanting to restate his case, having been left out of the World Cup squad. So, load management, what is the injury? Is he going to miss Chelsea's next game? Would he have been playing for Chelsea if they'd been playing this weekend? Well, others can discuss that.
26:35Jose Mourinho:I think he is a player that is still, I would say, pretty peeved at the fact that he wasn't in the World Cup squad. Didn't play well enough, you could argue, along with Phil Foden, so that's on him. It seems to be another player who, I'm not going to say a beef with Thomas Tuchel, but certainly not a booming relationship with the England manager. And that's a problem for him, the England manager, the current England manager. But I never think it's a good look. And look, Stevie and I were the first to try and avoid a few friendlies here and there. But sometimes, you know, back in the day you could get away with it and it wasn't so high profile.
27:12Jose Mourinho:But you were both guaranteed a place in the squad as well.
27:15Ian Darke:You knew when it came to big games, both of you were going to play. We're going to play. But Cole Palmer isn't in that situation. Exactly. So you're wondering, surely this is a great opportunity to go out there.
27:23Jose Mourinho:And the fact that there's a lot of crap international games. You could go through the list. We could be here all day. England, Spain is not one of them. That's the kind of games you'd say, you know why I'm playing that game. I don't want to play a friendly England v Latvia, really. I could load manage then because blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying that's right. but these elite level games, if you're playing a Brazil or a Portugal or a Spain or a Germany or whoever it is, and certainly if you want to restate your case, as Ian mentioned, what better way to do it than a performance against the world champions to make Thomas Tuchel sit up and take notice?
28:04Jose Mourinho:but I don't know this just seems to be there seems to be more to it I think with the England manager and Cole Palmer
28:14Ian Darke:I've got a lot of sympathy with him you know I was going to say you had a virtuous relationship didn't you
28:18Jose Mourinho:he's got a lot of sympathy with everybody today
28:20Ian Darke:you know everything that everybody said is the right thing it's a bad look right where's your sympathy you know you're playing against Spain you know you should be trying to get yourself back to the tape if a guy has just dropped you from a great height and then you've got to turn round, what, 12 weeks later and say, yes sir, no sir, three bags full. I've got no problem with Cole Palmer having a problem with that. But Craig make a good point. Cole Palmer didn't justify his place in that World Cup squad. He didn't have a good season last year. I don't disagree with any of that. So if that's the case...
28:52Ian Darke:So surely, personally, you've got to realise...
28:54Jose Mourinho:You're just out the squad completely. So if that's the case, is Cole Palmer not turning up for England
28:58Ian Darke:when Thomas Tuchel was manager? you? I'm just saying, if I've been dropped from a great height from the squad for not being good enough. But he wasn't. It was debatable. What you're saying is right. He wasn't in great form, right? I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'm just saying, do you think all the footballers around the world who never made their squad are sitting going, well, you know what? I wasn't good enough. Well, they should be, shouldn't they? That's coming back to ego that we were talking about before. You're taking it too far. Okay, alright I haven't been in the best of form but you know what I've been in all the squads, I've played well I've played well in all the qualifiers this is a guy this is a guy who has been loyal to Harry Maguire's of the world and stuff like that so all of a sudden what have I done?
29:46Ian Darke:Harry Maguire didn't go to the World Cup either so he hasn't been that loyal to him I'm just using that as an example of people that Harry Maguire shouldn't have been near the England squad two years ago but he was because apparently as we were told at the time Thomas is Thomas is loyal to some of his players.
30:01Jose Mourinho:Yeah, but there's certain positions within the England team that they're thin on the ground. And the front line and the wide positions is not one of them.
30:08Ian Darke:I'm not disagreeing from a playing point of view, Kate. I'm talking about Cole Palmer. If I'm Cole Palmer, I can understand if Cole Palmer's got a problem. Why? Because he was dropped on the whole squad. He was dropped because... 26-man squad and he gets...
30:24Jose Mourinho:Sorry, you're not good enough. Because England are not thin on the ground in those positions. and we can debate. I don't really care how many...
30:30Ian Darke:I don't really... What's your point? They never... Wait a minute. They never took a player like Cole Palmer. Yeah, because... They took all other kinds. But that's... It didn't take Phil Foden either. I know, but that's his prerogative. Because he wasn't in good enough form. That's the manager's prerogative. Correct. Right. But it's also Cole Palmer's prerogative to say, you know what? Stop it.
30:47Jose Mourinho:Well, that's just a bad attitude.
30:49Ian Darke:That's a bad attitude. Here we have a player who did not play well... In the cold light of day, in the cold light of day, yes, it may be a bad attitude. Yes, it might not be the right thing to do I don't understand your point Colt Palmer's got every right to be keyed off
31:02Jose Mourinho:So is he going to boycott England until Thomas Tuchel gets the sack or leaves? What kind of attitude is that? He played in one qualifier
31:10Ian Darke:He hasn't been a staple part He hasn't played well He hasn't been a staple part, has he, in England's scoring? All I'm saying is, in my opinion Colt Palmer could have all the right in the world to say Thomas Tuchel, stop it, I'm not coming I have no problem with it He's not the only one, obviously. Ian is shaking his head. Go on, Ian. Yeah, I don't see that. Now, Cole Palmer doesn't have the right to do that. I don't agree with Stevie. He can't just spit out the dummy because he's been left out of the squad. He was, you could argue, deservedly left out of the squad. So what we're talking about here?
31:43Ian Darke:We're not talking about a friendly against... Yeah, but he wasn't good enough, Stevie, to get in the team. OK. If Cole Palmer had been... I'm not saying he was good enough to get in the team. I don't know what you're saying. He should have been in the squad. And he's got every right. So you could argue that. He's got every right to be peed off that he's not in the squad. Right. And then all of a sudden, all of a sudden, oh, he wants him in the squad now. He has to look at himself. It would have been the biggest thing in his international life to go to the World Cup. And he gets dropped from a great height by Thomas Tuchel.
32:13Ian Darke:Because you're not good enough.
32:14Jose Mourinho:Thomas Tuchel. Whether we agree or not, Thomas Tuchel thought there was better options.
32:18Ian Darke:You've been too black and white by saying he wasn't good enough. No, he wasn't playing well enough. Professional footballers, Stevie, Craig, don't professional footballers have to take that as part of their life? They're going to be left out and they may feel unjustly sometimes. You can't just say, well, I'm not going to play for you anymore then after that. I mean, when he was a little boy, I remember Frank Lampard telling this story about when he was an England player and started to feel it was a bit of a chore weighing heavily. And he got a phone call from his mom saying, do you remember when you were a little boy, all you ever dreamt about was wearing that white shirt and playing for England?
32:52Ian Darke:That's how Cole Palmer should feel about playing for England. OK, he got a bitter disappointment, a really bitter disappointment, a kick in the teeth. He's right to be angry, but he's not right to say that. Well, unfortunately, Ian... If that is the case, oh, I don't want to play for Tuchel. I mean, he may not be saying that. Unfortunately, the reality comes when you are a professional footballer that what you thought was a little boy doesn't always... It's not always the most important thing. I know Listen The reason I The reason I pulled out Of Scotland's squad Was because of the manager That's the reason That's the reason I pulled out Which manager?
33:32Ian Darke:Roxburgh Right I didn't respect him So I'm like You know what I'm not gone
33:38Jose Mourinho:Let's cheer you up You know what though One second If Cole Palmer Remember that season at Chelsea Where he was His first season Unbelievable incredible now had that been Nicole Palmer that had been left out of the England squad I could understand I could understand because he was first on the team sheet but it wasn't that he wasn't that player and neither was Foden so what happened was he left it up to debate wasn't up for debate you know Harry Kane wasn't up for debate you know Morgan Rogers and Jude Bellingham they were always going to make weren't really up for debate There were certain positions that were up for debate, and these players had to throw their hat in the ring, and they didn't do well enough in that manager's mind.
34:25You can't then go away and have that hanging over the manager
34:30Jose Mourinho:for another three or four years because you didn't make that.
34:33Ian Darke:I'm not saying anything to have. I'm just saying that if he's lost respect for the manager, then he's quite right not going. Evan Cohen here. Game day brings the excitement. Your stay should feel just as memorable. With Marriott Bonvoy, official hotel partner of the NCAA and U.S. soccer,
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35:43Ian Darke:Let's switch subjects now Liverpool I've had a terrible start I'm having another four days off I'm not listening to this I'm not talking about how good or bad Cole Palmer is I'm just saying Cole Palmer's always got a great or should have a great will and maybe he has got a great will but then you know what guess what maybe he's overloaded maybe he's really overloaded I'm just saying I don't have a problem when pulling out He just doesn't know what to talk about about Liverpool. That's all it is. I know. I tell you what, it doesn't look as bad when you see it in black and white. Five games, two defeats, three wins.
36:18Ian Darke:Is that where we're at? Was it three draws and two wins? Yeah, I don't know. How would we assess? It doesn't feel like it. How would you assess their start to the season? Not a surprise. It's not a surprise. The first day of the season, you always have the hope. You always think it's going to be different. and I think we're all in the same boat with our team. You think something's going to harm, everything's going to gel, it's going to be great, we're going to get rid of the cobwebs from the last season, the whole shebang. But then the whistle goes and then you see exactly the same thing. So it's tough to watch.
36:58Ian Darke:But as you said, when you look at the table, you think... I got that all completely wrong, by the way. They're undefeated. Two wins and three draws. It doesn't feel like that. It doesn't feel like that. It doesn't feel like... So that's got to be a good thing, isn't it? If you're playing badly and getting to this stage. Well, it is a good thing. And the last three games with a clean sheet is huge. If you continue to do that, and I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if you continue to do that, then you can build on going forward. If you've given nothing away at the back, then it just takes one chance.
37:29Ian Darke:What you did last week, Liverpool had one chance against Bournemouth. And that was it. And they get three points. So the key for me is a clean sheet Because we keep, again, we keep thinking it's going to click It's going to harm These guys are going to find a connection with each other going forward Which has completely disappeared What, 16, 18 months ago? It's been a struggle ever since So, yeah, you've got to look at that and go I'll take that right now considering how we're playing How would you assess them, Ian? They're learning, I think, still, aren't they? to play the way that Irola wants.
38:06Ian Darke:You remember when he came in at Bournemouth, they didn't win any of their first nine games and the players found it difficult. So I think the verdict for the moment, and there were only five games in, work in progress and not that convincing so far. But let's see what happens. The next game is Manchester City, isn't it? That might tell us something. The most concerning thing looking at starting XI, Stevie, arguably the best player is the player you wanted to get rid of in the summer. Not arguably, it is All the goals and all the opportunities That Liverpool had this season Pretty much have come from him So Talking about Gakpo Yeah You're not getting anywhere When you're relying on one guy every week Every time you step on the field And so Again, that's why you've got to be happy With where they are But In order for it to change then the coach has to change something.
39:03Ian Darke:How many times do you keep trying the same thing, the same thing, the same thing, and it's not working? Eventually, somebody's got to either tell you, you've got to figure out, I need to change something. And right now, I think it's very obvious to most people, the one change for me would be Verts. You would drop him? Get him on the bench. We've seen nothing from Verts, and I think it would be better for Liverpool going forward if Sobizlai was further up the field. Because regardless of who the opposition is, if he picks the ball up, anywhere from 35 yards between him and the goal, the opposition are going to have to come and close him down and step out, and then you'll leave holes.
39:45Ian Darke:Or if you don't step out, he's capable of sticking it in the back of the net. So you're losing out on that going forward when you're getting nothing from Verts, and you've got Sobizlai, Deepa, who works his socks off, but isn't the best defensive midfielder on the planet.
40:03Jose Mourinho:That was the best midfielder in the Premier League the year they won the title. Up until, certainly in the first half of the season, that particular three. And they tried to make some changes and thus far it's not... Well, all that's happening is, particularly with the full-back changes, is that Sobber's lives getting shunted from pillar to post. The full-back thing affects everybody. Which doesn't help him. But there's no doubt that Gravenberg, McAllister, Subozlai, for six or seven months of that year when Slott won the title, that was the best midfield in England by quite some.
40:37Ian Darke:So what's going to happen, Ian? How is he going to fix this? Or as you say, is it just a case of time for the players to learn his strategies? Yeah, well, they'll hope that it's a question of time. But, you know, Stevie and Craig have outlined the kind of problems. I mean, it's a big problem, isn't it? Milos Kerkhez at left back. That isn't working at all. I think he's done a good job putting Arojo in it right back because for the moment, I think that's just solidified that little area. Maybe that's why they're getting the clean sheets. I think they've looked quite good attacking in cameos, but only in cameos so far.
41:15Ian Darke:So, I mean, I'm prepared to, I think, just see how the story develops for the next three or four weeks when Barcolas settled in, Maybe Isak will keep on scoring. I mean, yeah, I get the debate about Florian Vietz. I thought he would be an absolutely fantastic signing, but it hasn't happened yet, has it? Here's the other one. Isak's got four goals in five games. Normally, if you look at that on a sheet of paper, you go, that's all right. Yeah. That's what they signed him for, he scored goals. But other than those four goals, which I know is really important, he's been horrible. His hold-up play, his link-up play, every other facet of his game has just been bang average but he's got four and five speaking of bang average Manchester United are back at it exactly as kind of we expect this season to go it started in fact well they haven't even been bang average well it started exactly the same as Amarine's reign when he was in charge it's just it I would say it's not good enough but it's kind of expected now for Manchester United and once you forget the badge You look at the players.
42:24Ian Darke:This is about where they are. Well, it's a mystery, really, to me. You wouldn't think of the momentum that they had at the back end of last season, climbing up to an undreamt of third place, really. Nobody saw that coming. But something's happened. They've looked undercooked right from the start of the season when they lost to Hull City. You know, a terrible start to the season in their first game. Funny thing to say now, because he got a lot of criticism, but I think they're missing Casemiro's kind of presence in midfield. They invested heavily in the midfield, but Labour hasn't been fit to play yet.
42:58Ian Darke:Tielemans has arrived, proven Premier League quality. Now, who else did they buy? £50 million. That's a lot for Manchester United on Andre Santos, who hardly got a kick at Chelsea, and he's already out of the Manchester United team. So they'd have been better off getting themselves another left-back, wouldn't they?
43:15Jose Mourinho:Once again, their recruitment leaves a lot to be desired. Aye. Yeah, I mean, they're just... It seems that the one when Carrick came in was a bit of an anomaly. Really, they got a bit of a lift. You know, that guy. They got rid of the negativity of Amarim. The constant whining and moaning about everybody else and about this and about that. And all the weird press conferences he was given. and that left, somebody came in who did the basics, pushed Bruno Fernandes further forward, put round pegs in round holes, and it was a bit of a breath of fresh air. And we saw that in the results. Then you go away, everybody has a break or a World Cup or whatever, you come back, you have a pre-season, you don't really spend what you should be spending for Manchester United.
44:06I don't know about their financial situation
44:08Jose Mourinho:with what they were able to spend, but they didn't have a great summer. And now it looks like they are what they are. They're a team that looks like they're going to struggle to even get into the top six at this point.
44:22Ian Darke:Does it make a difference who's in charge? Or any questions about Carrick? There's been rumours of Antonio Conte, which I feel there always is around Manchester United at some stage. How would Pep go on with this team? I don't think he's going to take the job. I mean, it's a valid point, though. Regardless of who was the manager, with the players they've got, the players they've got are not good enough, are they? Some of them. Most of them. Would you say most of them? I would say most of them. Which of the players get into an Arsenal or Manchester City? Bruno. Bruno. That's it, isn't it? So that tells you exactly what you're working with.
44:58Yeah.
44:59Ian Darke:So, exactly. So, is it about who the manager is? I don't really think so. Not when you look at the group of players in the squad that he's got. I mean, what's he supposed to do with them? So why were we so harsh on Amarine when he had the same squad, practically? Well, he had more time. You know, we weren't as hard on him to begin with. But then it got to a point where it was obvious something needed changed. And he was so stubborn that he was not changing it. And then it got worse when you thought it couldn't get any worse. So he was given time. I mean, Carrick's not been given that much time, really.
45:36Ian Darke:You think, what, five games. Now the question is, Carrick should he have got it? Is he good enough? Has he got the CV? Have we had this conversation before? No, exactly. But we're five games in. Who said about the badge?
45:49Jose Mourinho:Was it you that said about the badge? I said about the badge. If this team was not called Man United, we'd have given up talking about them a long time ago. We really would. That's kind of where I'm at with this team. You ask me whose fault it is, and I'm like, I don't really care anymore. Because it could be probably the board's fault, the recruitment's fault, The players' fault, the managers' fault. It's a combination of everything. And by the way, the new ownership are not covering themselves in glory either. They came in with this big fanfare, they're not the new ownership, the new investment, and that's another thing.
46:29Jose Mourinho:It's a bit of a mess, isn't it? They're the investment people. The Glazers still own it. All that needs to change. But if it wasn't Man United, this would just be a mid-table team, for the most part, that we would ignore most weeks. But they got into the Champions League last year with that late run, because the Premier League wasn't the strongest, so they had to put, and it still isn't, and they have to put a little run together. They get in there and that was great. And then we have this great big debate again about should they give the interim manager the job? And I think had they given him the job or the most experienced manager on the planet the job, we may have been having the same conversation.
47:07Jose Mourinho:We just don't know.
47:09Ian Darke:Just a reminder, ESPN FC is with you every single day throughout the international break. We'll be back tomorrow. Are you doing two days in a row, Craig? Yeah, I'm actually doing it. I thought we were going to Easyman. Be sure to join us.
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49:14Ian Darke:Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Craig and Stevie with us here in the studio. Ian joins us as well. Ian, it's the first time I've seen you since we met in Spain where you were looking a bit battered and bruised. I'm pleased to say that you look a lot better now. Do you want to share why? Battered and bruised? Was I beaten up in? I don't remember it. I tell you what, because our boss at the time pulled me to one side and said, has Ian got a hickey on his neck? And I was like, I don't think so. Oh, I had a bruise. You did have a bruise. Yes, I did. Do you want to share why that happened?
49:52Ian Darke:How that happened? I fell out of bed. There you are. Come on, Ian. Now you've made it public, Dan. Thanks. But you didn't just fall out of bed? I was dreaming I was in a football match. I was defending and I was trying to stop a cross coming in. And as I stretched, I fell out of bed. And, yeah, that wasn't the only injury I got. I got an injured neck and a knee cut as well. I can't believe you pulled that heel on that. You just feel perfect, didn't you? What's a nice story? You're so perfect. You'd never end in a bit of a year. All right. Why are you being grumpy? I don't know. There might be someone a bit of a year.
50:44Ian Darke:Oh, there we go. Hey, but that's nice. Look at the state of that. Look at the barn there. Stevie, what a horrible segue. That doesn't even look like you. Yeah, well, I thought you led into that quite well. Hold on a sec. You know when I found this out? Two seconds ago, all I got in my ear was, sit up, Dan. I was like, what? That was 20 years ago. You do. It's been years ago on Real Madrid TV. Isn't that nuts?
51:07Jose Mourinho:You don't even look like you're on TV there. You look like you're a 1980s pop singer. Yeah, boy band look. It doesn't even look like them.
51:14Ian Darke:Not in a good way. That's good fun. That's before the referee propaganda and all that. Right, should they do away with the September-November international breaks, end the club season in May instead of June, and have a three - to four-week international window after the Champions League final, Ian? Whoa, that's a lot to throw. I'm not sure really because when are you going to be able to do that? Because there are major championships in that period. Every couple of years, European championships, World Cups, Copa America. No, I don't think it's going to work. I think the international games, there have to be some in the autumn.
51:54Jose Mourinho:Season's ending May anyway. Champions League sometimes runs into the... Yeah, normally it's ending May. It's normally ending May, but a Premier League season, for instance, could finish on maybe the 14th, middle of May, might be the 21st, the third week. It just seems like,
52:10Ian Darke:I don't think there's no easy solution, is there? Yeah. You have to have international football. Less games. Less games domestically.
52:19Ian Darke:Well, I'd have less friendlies. Yeah, but no one's going to give up that, I mean. Everyone wants their money. Yeah. Yeah. Don't go, just turn up, don't turn up. Just don't go. Like you were just saying, Cole Palmer was right. Exactly, Will Mourinho last the season at Madrid, Ian? Big question, that. You could see the story developing, couldn't you, in a bad way, as we were talking about on the programme. Barcelona could be 12 points clear if they win the Clasico. If Real Madrid slip up again, they've already slipped up away from home at Betis, wasn't it? They've lost against Atletico. So I wouldn't rule anything out.
53:02Ian Darke:it's Real Madrid and Florentino Perez.
53:05Jose Mourinho:If he goes to, if it gets to Christmas and they're a country mile behind, you could see him going. Oh, yeah, because... Because, as Ian said, Perez has, Florentino Perez will just want to save face. Yeah.
53:17Ian Darke:And by saving face... And Santi will come back in or someone...
53:19Jose Mourinho:You changed the mind, has it?
53:21Ian Darke:Macca. Maccaren. That was brilliant. So at the weekend, he went on air, but he didn't know he was on air. He just saw that Luis and Macca and Kay were just... and Louis, Sid and Kay were just chatting and he just goes in. He was lucky he didn't say anything. He's such a professional. He doesn't realise the camera's pointing out. I know, I know. Will he last to see it? What are we going? What percentage?
53:44Jose Mourinho:I'm going to go, at this moment in time, 70 % chance he doesn't last to see it.
53:52Ian Darke:30 % chance that he'll stay. All right, we'll go with that. Yeah. Ian? Yeah, I think it's about right. I think Maffi's gone through four managers already during the time at Real Madrid, so things change quickly there. Ian, is Phil Foden England's career over? I wouldn't be that definitive about it, but I think at the moment he's a long way from the team. Stevie, rank these events in terms of the likelihood of their occurrence from most to least by the end of the season. You understand? You concentrated? Liverpool to win the league. Spurs to get relegated, Brighton finishing inside the top four.
54:34Ian Darke:That's quite easy, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, Spurs won't get relegated. Okay. No. And Liverpool's not winning the league. Mm-hmm. And it's possible Brighton could finish, absolutely Brighton could finish in the top four. Yeah. So what's more likely then? Liverpool winning the league or Spurs getting relegated? Spurs getting relegated. You just said Spurs aren't going to get relegated. Yeah, I know, but Liverpool's not winning the league either. Right. So, you just asked me the question. OK. Right, I just told you. All right. There's no chance. There's no chance Liverpool win the league. OK. None. Right.
55:15Ian Darke:Zero. OK. I don't even mean... So that's the least likely. This is not even what percentage. There is no chance that Liverpool win the Premier League. But there is a chance. Right. Regardless of how small... But you said Spurs weren't getting relegated. Well, no. Sorry. Sorry I'm answering the question. The question is, what's more likely? Yes, I know. But at the start of the question, you went, there's no way Spurs are getting relegated. Yeah, but then I realised. Right. There's no way, there's no chance. There is a, regardless of how small, there is a small chance. Yeah, I completely agree with you.
55:51Ian Darke:But you were the one who... It was the road that you took to get there. I know, he's been clever as years old. Good to be back anyway. and here's a clip and by the way Cole Palmer how bad is he well he was a regular as you're in the I can't believe he gets in the Chelsea team he's that bad this is from the show where Stevie got his knickers in a twist who is the most serious coach you've ever had all about the details no jokes no family at hotel no haircuts on time to meetings no phones I don't know my haircuts I've got anything who is the most serious you had a few serious
56:29Ian Darke:Not Jim, obviously Not Jim Smith Definitely not Jim Smith By the way, I've got to say You'll understand this So my very first manager This is at Air United? At Air United He's called Willie McLean Now, the McLeans were a legendary family There was three brothers And they were all footballers And they were all managers Okay Willie, Jim and Tommy Correct My Scottish name
56:52Jose Mourinho:And they were all miserable.
56:55Ian Darke:The connection between them all, everybody would say, was they were all miserable. Right. So it'd have to be him. I don't remember him ever laughing. Training, after games, during games. Yeah. Yeah. Ian, who's the most miserable manager you've had to deal with? Oh, they usually got quite good characters, aren't they? Because you just don't want to talk to them after defeat. They're liable to explode back. Yeah. And what is that in the world? Do you ever see that interview with Roy Hodgson? Yeah, the Roy Hodgson ones. When he got really annoyed over the question. Which was really funny because he drops the F-bomb and you just, for some reason, Roy Hodgson isn't someone you expect to be swearing.
57:38Ian Darke:I think it was a match of the day. Yes. And there's the famous Scottish guy who head-butted the reporter. Who was that? No, no, he didn't head-but him. He punched him. That was Willie's big brother. He punched the guy who was interviewing him. That was Jim McLean. Punched him. Gave him one of them on camera. Ah, okay. So he's part of your Maclean's. I mean, Willie, Willie away from the football would have a smile. Okay. But actually, anything to do with being at the club or anything? Yeah. No.
58:04Jose Mourinho:Jim resigned over that, obviously. But he used to be manager at Dundee United when they were one of the best teams in, well, they were definitely one of the best teams in Scotland. But they beat Barcelona in the camp now. Right. In the 80s. I mean, can you imagine that now? So he was like, he gave Fergus Aberdeen a run for the money as well as Rangers and Celtic. And then he went on to sort of run the club. Didn't own it, but ran it from top to bottom, as he did pretty much when he was a manager. But he was an executive at this point when he punched the BBC's John Barnes.
58:36Ian Darke:Have a look at it on YouTube. It's brilliant. It is brilliant. Any other swings? Roy Hodgson's a famous one. Ian, anyone else you can think of post-match that people should have a look at? Yeah, managers are in a bad mood if they've been beaten. and you have to be very careful. I remember Louis van Gaal tulling me off at Watford one day when he was in charge of Manchester United because I had the temerity to ask him if he could give me a steer on the team. And he looked at me as if I'd just arrived from Mars. So there were no further questions, to put it that way. A guy I played, we played for Jim McLean at Dundee United, Morris Malpass.
59:14Ian Darke:And back in the day, when you used to get your wages in a wee brown packet packet, it was money. And so Morris got his money, as Craig said, Jim was running the whole thing, manager, coach, scout, doing all the wages, the whole thing. And he opened his pay packet up and there was 20 quid missing, which was his bonus for winning the game. So he goes in the office and he goes, hey, Gaffer, I've got 20 quid short on my wages. And he went, I know. Morris went, well, why's that? And he went, well, you think you deserved I said, what do you mean? He said, do you think you deserve to get a bonus for the way you played on Saturday?
59:51Ian Darke:Wow. And that was it. Never got it. No discussion. No, nothing. Never got it. Have you got any envelope stories from Liverpool, Stephen? No. Oh, I'm thinking of those. Yes, I wasn't thinking of those. There was another one. We had a sponsor, we had a sponsor meeting one day. Wasn't the Brendan Rodgers envelope story? No. We had a sponsor meeting one day. There was a new sponsor that took over while I was there. And he got all the players in. And he basically said, he said, anybody makes an appearance for us, brown envelope. No questions asked. We were all like, ah, a beauty. And he was true to his word.
1:00:34Ian Darke:Wow. Fantastic. That wasn't the story I was thinking of either. Oh, I know. I'm not telling that one. Oh, okay. All right then. I think you wrote it in your book, didn't you? Yeah, well you need to buy the book. Oh, there we go. Perfect. What a tease. What was it called again? Anthony Gordon said in an interview that he wanted to start a book club at Barcelona. Did he really? Were you ever a part or knew of any non-football related activity groups that emerged from your squad?
1:00:58Jose Mourinho:Yeah. Pool team, darts. Yeah, I was going to say pool team, darts. Some players have a little syndicate, maybe on a horse. Okay, yeah. Maka and Fowler had a lot of horses, didn't they? Were you in any... I was in the horse thing at Derby. Were you? Yeah. Didn't go particularly well. What was the name of the horse? Do you remember?
1:01:20Ian Darke:Don't know. Shell it out. Dead last. It was a bit. I'll cut out the middle one, just drop it in the bin. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. Ian loves it. I saw Ian randomly at the horse racing track. When was that, Ian? That was earlier this year. Hey, look. I bumped into you at Sandown Park. At Sandown. Yeah. My local track here, just down the road. and there's Dan turns up in his jeans and t-shirt, just not knowing anything about the horse. He said, oh, I've backed this horse in the next race. I'm thinking he's got no chance. He's won by a six-pence of 12-1. Yeah, it was good. He pulled out of there a pocket full of money.
1:01:59Ian Darke:Yeah, very good day, Ian, for everyone. It was a good day. It was for you. Any stories, memories about your first call-up to the international team?
1:02:11Ian Darke:I guess there wasn't an email. It was in Hiroshima. Oh, the call-up? Yes. When did you know? How did you know?
1:02:17Jose Mourinho:I can't remember.
1:02:19Ian Darke:Do you not? You don't remember? Yeah, the manager. Maybe your club told you? The manager would come and tell you. Right. Yeah. Calm down your excitement about this story. Oh, but they told him to get stuffed. Well, the thing is, the first time, you don't speak. It's not like... I mean, I don't even think Don comes strolling in and giving us... No, no, no, but when you were first told that it was your... There must have been a happy emotion. That was a great good day. Good. Good. Right. Final question. You went for a triple somersault in a dark circle. A little bit of enthusiasm. I don't remember.
1:03:01Ian Darke:I felt all right. Aye. Good. Well, that's what it was, wasn't it? Holy smokes. For everyone here including Dan, would any of you ever consider writing an autobiography? There it is. Not again. There we go. By the way, what about all these Dobbers that have like three and four autobiographies? Well, yeah. How do you do that? How can you possibly have three? It's money, isn't it? I know, but who buys them?
1:03:28Jose Mourinho:You've got to make stuff up, surely. I mean, yours are just falling off the shelf. Flying.
1:03:34Ian Darke:Flying into the bargain bin. Have you read this book, Ian? Not yet. It's only been out for five years. I take your time. Well, the problem is I don't have a natural fire anymore, so I've got no need for it. Ian, five league titles and a baggy crisp. You can still get it on Amazon. It is brilliant. It's a very good read.
1:03:52Jose Mourinho:What's his new one going to be? Don't turn that for international football.
1:03:56Ian Darke:I need a new roof. Get stuffed. Is there an Andy Roxburgh chap? Yes, there is. No punches pulled either. Yes, there is. It's brilliant. Ian, what are you doing for International? Are you going to have a holiday? Yeah, I'm not doing any games, no. Are you going to go away? Just debauchery at the racetrack. Play the odd game of golf. The glorious English weather. It's like the south of France here. Oh, lovely. Very nice. Okay, that's it. We'll be here. Don't worry. There we go. ESPN will be back tomorrow. Me and Craig. That's it.
1:04:47Ian Darke:Buster Olney here for La Quinta by Wyndham. Cooler weather, changing leaves, and scenic road trips are even better when your best friend comes along. At La Quinta by Wyndham, many locations are pet-friendly, so there's no need to leave your furry travel companion behind. Whether you're hiking a new trail, exploring a charming small town, or simply enjoying a relaxing fall weekend, everyone in the family is welcome and earn win and rewards points with every qualified stay. Tonight, La Quinta, tomorrow you shine. Book your next trip at LaQuinta.com. Terms and conditions apply.
From the publisher
The FC crew continue to revisit the Madrid derby controversy as Ian Darke explains why Jose Mourinho did his best to deflect from a poor Real Madrid performance. Plus, the guys question why Cole Palmer withdrew from the England squad after missing out on the World Cup this past summer. The guys also break down why there should be optimism surrounding Liverpool's start the season.
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