Pens and Needles in Madrid

24:54You want to see that nine goals in the semifinal of the Champions League. Of course, that's a dream. But if you go a little bit into details and just a little bit, I mean, defensively, what a hard work to do because we saw so many and especially Paris Saint-Germain on the two goal on the Olize goal, nobody attacked and I think Paco should have gone there. We can see that everybody was in bad anticipation, nobody comes to help. I think it's Pavlovich. So there is some lack of work defensively like that. You see nobody attacks Olize and it's easy for him but we have the talent. Everybody has a fear when he sees those players attacking them.

25:37So they They try to draw up, they don't want to engage too much, and it's why. But of course, everybody is very pleased. And if I can give a little bit of your question about England, the Premier League. I mean, they lost the British mojo. They lost the craziness of the English football that I met when I first played in England. That's gone. And that's a pity. Because that's why it was the best league in the world, because that was different. And now it's like the others. And that's a pity because you brought some coaches who taught players some other way of playing football. And you lost something that you didn't lose at first in the year in the 90s and 2000 because you kept that British or English spirit.

26:25And that's gone. That's a pity for me. Premier League has become very robotic. Not every game, but... And you know, four or five months ago, I was pretty steadfast in saying that they spend more than any league in the world but you don't get your bang for your buck really for maybe the odd team like Man City and Arsenal at the start of the season and maybe Liverpool last year for a stretch but there's the odd flurry from a Bournemouth or a Brentford or an Aston Villa but generally week in, week out it's become very robotic and I don't know if in other countries certainly in Europe whether there is a big emphasis and all you hear and certainly in England is set-piece coach.

27:06And this coach and that coach and the next coach. And it just feels like it's over-coaching rather than just allowing the players to go out with a base to go and play and express yourselves. And again, we talk about fear from Arsenal and I feel the Premier League has got a lot of it, has got itself in this fearful football. Fearful of getting dragged into relegation, which does happen in other countries. I hear you say, well, there's relegation in other countries. But the financial implications because of the money involved in the Premier League are such that that fear is there, that fear of relegation and what that's going to do to the club, that fear of not getting into Europe, that fear of not getting into the Champions League.

27:46And it almost inhibits, I think, managers and coaches, not them all, but most of them, from saying, like, go out there and express yourself. And that's what Bayern, and I'm not saying Bayern and PSG are not coached. Of course they are. But once Enrique and Vincent Kompany have coached the players and selected their team, those boys go out there and they just express themselves. And they go for it and they pass it and they go forward and they want to do the things that excite people. City do it now and again and have done it well over five or six years when Guardiola and they were at the Pomp. But if we've been honest about it, you switch on the Premier League on the weekend now and it's boring.

28:26and that is an issue for their product and I think a lot of it is down to the fact that certain managers just want to win and that's fair enough they want to win at all costs and that brings a sort of fear into it where you look at some of the other certainly France and Germany there is an enjoyment about and it's not perfect it is not perfect and some might say well you know they should do this and that and tighten up here and there There's an enjoyment about how they play the game. And I think for the supporter and for the TV audience, that's actually good to watch. Is there an element, though, that there are stronger teams that are lower down in the Premier League?

29:08So it's not as much as a contest in other leagues. So they have the freedom to play this style of football and work on this style of football. Maybe. But that's taking the... No, I think if you look at the squads that the likes of, say, Brentford, Bournemouth have compared to the other side, say, in Ali. But Brentford and Bournemouth are in the top half. Yeah, exactly. And have spent a fair amount of money. But then you compare it to the teams that Bayern Munich are facing week in, week out, or PSG are facing week in, week out. Maybe it isn't the same sort of content. I think some of those German teams would...

29:43Right. Ali will know better than us. All I'm saying is that now you're taking the position of those that protect the Premier League. Well, that's my job. Well, you don't have to protect the Premier League. That shouldn't be your shot. Are you saying the teams in 7th and 8th in the Bundesliga would struggle against a Bournemouth or a Brentford or a Sunderland or a team like that? I don't know. I'm not dying on this sword, I promise you. I'm just putting over a different argument. What you're trying to say is, are you trying to say it's much more of a slog to get results in the Premier League? I'm not sure it is.

30:16People do die in that hill. It's the most physical league, as if it's the most physical physical at this, physical at that. As if players, you go and stand on the side of your pitch in Germany or France, do you think the players are automatically smaller? No, I know, but then you look at Spurs, you look at what they did in the group stages, what Dortmund and Frankfurt. That was an anomaly. Right, well, if we take an overall picture, for many years, for players coming from the Bundesliga to the Premier League or from Ligue 1 to the Premier League, the analysis, automatic analysis and question was about that player, whoever that may be, can he withstand the pace of the Premier League?

30:58Can he withstand the physicality of the Premier League? I would argue that the Premier League has slowed itself down with this passing game, with this passing backwards and sideways. So it's no longer a league that differentiates itself because of the pace and the physicality. The game has become far more technical in the Premier League for players that don't have that as their main asset in their game. That's why you have poor level of play, poor standard of play, because you have players that for the longest time have been all about the pace, the physicality, the strength, and now they're being asked to play sideways, back, possession, possession.

31:39They didn't grow up with this. This is not how they want to play, and this is how they're being forced to play, Hence why when you drop a level of play, you see teams that are simply not good doing what the coach is asking them to do. You're talking about pace of play or pace of a league. Kind of reticent to get into the league, the other leagues. Because I'm not one for saying, oh, the Premier League is better than this league. I just hate all that. However, if you've seen a game with more pace than a German side and a French side yesterday, not just this season but for many a year if you've seen a game with more pace than yesterday's game then somebody will have to find me the video do you want to add anything boys before we move on yes i was one i was going to just go back to what ali was saying and craig was saying about the premier league years ago the bottom teams when you were a top team you knew when you were going to play away from home at a bottom team they were going to they were going to have a go at you physically they were going to play balls into the front they were going to send a lot of players into the front areas.

32:42They were going to try and play with two up front and cause your centre-halves a problem. It was going to be hard for you to get out. They made it difficult for you. That's not the case anymore. That's why the game has slowed down because those bottom sides still, as Ali said, still want to try and play when they're not very good at doing so. So they don't see that forward pass. They pass it for the sake of passing it. So that's one of the areas why the game has changed and it's become slower in the Premier League because the bottom sides don't try and put pressure on the big sides. Dan, I remember, and we can talk about the best French coach of many decades, Arsene Wenger, taking charge of the Gunners.

33:16And he was always talking about the second ball. He was always talking about the fight. And he said, I want my team to be ready for that because it's Premier League. It's how it works. It's physical. And then you have the technician at front who are going to make the difference. The Beckham, the Jan Wright, the Thierry Henry, of course, Sylvain Wilthor, Nicolas St-Helkaz, and so many others, because it's where they are for. But at the back, you need Adams, you need Keon, you need the bad guys, you know, in the middle of the park, like Jaira Petit and some others. And that's how it worked. But I always heard about the second ball in England.

33:54You have to be ready for the second ball. That was the trademark of the Premier League for me. And we don't see that anymore. It's like they do 500, 800 passes, very happy, one shot in goal. Come on, it's Premier League. Let's give Luis Enrique some love, shall we? An interesting quote from Dembele yesterday when he was asked which position he was playing in because he seemed to be all over the pitch. His response was, if you don't run, if you don't press, he puts you on the bench. And Robbo, this truth, automatically, I thought Xavi Alonso and Vinicius Jr. well perhaps Luis Enrique should go to Real Madrid shouldn't he and see what response he gets out of Vinny Jr.

34:33and Mbappe there he obviously didn't get what he wanted out of Mbappe because he was quite willing to sell him and sell obviously Neymar and Messi because they weren't the players that made did the job that he wanted them to do now he's got players that work hard both with and without the ball he's got young players that are physically fit that want to close people down he's got players that will track back he's got full backs that can get forward and get back again, you have to be physically fit to play the sort of game we saw yesterday. You've also got to have quality and you've got to run. And that's exactly what Luis Enrique's got from his team now.

35:04They run. And they're a better side without Kylian Mbappe. Oh my goodness, yeah. And he goes there to win the Champions League and be the big star, which he's the best player they've got and his stats will back that up. But he's still probably as far away from winning the Champions League as he was when he was at PSG. You know, so it's been a difficult one, but Lewis Enrique was crystal clear in what he wanted when he entered the club. And I think, you know, we talk about a manager not taking the Real Madrid job, whoever it is, if he doesn't get the assurances, which he probably won't get. It almost seemed that Lewis Enrique got the assurances, that the changes would be made that he wanted.

35:49and therefore he was able to step into a very strong position, pretty much get what he wanted in terms of players in and out and hence you get what you get is a very attractive team to watch with a lot of pace but a lot of hard work as well with good, really tidy players in midfield. And yeah, that's why they are banged right in the middle of this Champions League title race again and probably and arguably are the favourites to retain it which would be some feet after walloping into Milan 5-0 last year. This is the man who was in charge of that turgid Spain side. You know, you looked at all the talent in Spain and you thought, oh, what is he doing here?

36:29But he's come in and he's clearly evolved. Well, he has learned. He has learned from his own mistakes, from the things that haven't worked for him. And he fully understood that if he was going to be successful at PSG, he was going to make it clear that he was going to do it his way and that he is the boss. There's no doubt as to who is making the decisions at PSG. You don't have the same concerns and questions that you have about Real Madrid. Is Arbelovar really making decisions? No. No. That guy is not on charge. He's a cardboard figure. We've said that before. With Luis Enrique, there is no doubt.

37:09And let's remind ourselves, just in case people have forgotten this, the person saying this about this manager, Ousmane Dembele, is a current Ballon d 'Or winner. He is saying, if I don't run, he's going to sit me on the bench. Which essentially is saying, it doesn't matter who you are. If you don't do what I ask you to do, and God forbid that this were the case, that if you don't do what your manager asks you to do, you're on the bench. This sounds so simple, so straightforward, and yet so many managers around the world have a difficult time doing it. Following through, not with threats, but following through with decisions that benefit the team above the individual.

37:50Frank? Yeah, there is a comment from Luis Enrique about Mbappe that he said, I think it was yesterday, in a way that he explained that, and everybody would agree with him, that no doubt that Mbappe has the gift of everything in football where you want to see a player like that and you want to enjoy a player like that. But he said that Mbappe didn't understand one thing, the involvement that you need to have in order to be successful and that you have to be loyal to your teammates. You have to work out for them. And that's what Dembele understood with Lise Enrique. And it's why he became a Ballon d 'Or.

38:31It's where you are not the only one. And that's the thing. And that's a lesson for everybody. You know, when I fight against the Ballon d 'Or, it's not because, I don't know, whatever it could have been. It's because we all believe, because we played football, we all believe in the collective aspect of the game. And Riz Henrique has shown because he had Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. They couldn't work with those players because they were individual. They were big stars and you had to build your team around them. Where now, because he had player understanding, his philosophy of football, he's successful.

39:07and therefore media has to change the way of thinking and writing, maybe, or talking about the football. Because football is about teammates. It's not about one guy, one star, because he scores, he's the player of the game. We don't care about that. You have to change your mindset. But you still, on Dembele, and there was lots of great players on the pitch yesterday, but on Dembele, all that coaching, but you still have to want to do it for yourself. Right. This is the same player when he was at Dortmund, when he was at Barcelona, was late for training, had disciplinary issues. And I dare say if you look at his stats, not his goals per se, but if you look at his work rate stats and his running numbers from Dortmund and Barcelona, they're probably nowhere near what they've been in the last 12 months at PSG.

39:58So it's the old saying, you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. He's got to do it for himself, regardless of who's coaching. Now, you know, if you respect the coach more, sometimes that helps. But you've still got to want to do it. And here was a player whose end product in the final third was scratchy, whose discipline was scratchy, late for training, all the other stuff that goes with it. And he's, to be fair to him, he's not, it seems he may still be having the odd night out. I've no idea. But we're not reading about the discipline issues. We're not reading about the late for training.

40:33We're just reading about and watching the Ousmane Dembele, who's producing on the field. And that's a lot down to what he's done for himself, as well as what Luis Enrique has helped him with. The cold bench is a great motivator. Yeah, well, we saw we were covered Skelly, didn't we? It's a great equaliser. Nothing gets your attention more than sitting on that bench and seeing everybody else playing. And you thinking, why am I not there? And you can't run to Daddy Perez. No, he's not there and he's not going to listen to you. Are you suggesting? I am 100 % suggesting. Bob Alonzo's head. Last thing, Robbo, on this.

41:14Bad news, meanwhile, for PSG looking ahead to the second leg. Hakimi is out. Yes, a big blow because obviously we just talked about running. He covers so much ground from one end of the pitch to the other end of the pitch. He knows when to break forward. I think the last goal when he breaks in behind Lyme who had just come on. He's an outstanding player and he can do so many things in the side. He's also quite clever in playing round pressure. So that's going to be a major loss for them. Who they play there, I'm not quite sure, but it's going to be more difficult for them. And I think it gives Bayern the edge.

41:44Thank you very much, Robbo. Just a reminder, a lot more on what we've seen in the Champions League over the last 48 hours on Gab and Jewel's show. That drops on Thursday. Meanwhile, Bayern Munich taking on Heidenheim. Who's playing for that? 9.30 Eastern on ESPN+. and maybe with one eye on the second leg against the PSG. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly.

42:21Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Granger knows safety is always a priority, They're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER. Click grainger.com or just stop by. Oh, oh, oh, O 'Reilly. Check engine, ABS, or maintenance light on? Take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O 'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE-certified master technicians. And if you need help, we could recommend a shop for you. Ask for O 'Reilly Veriscan today.

43:00Oh, oh, oh, O 'Reilly! Auto Parts.

43:11Right then, we saw this, didn't we, at the weekend? And there has been some punishment handed down for Esteban Andrada for throwing that punch. 13 games will be the punishment. Here comes the punch, if you haven't seen it. Bang. Oh, alright. There you go. Bit of a slap, open wrist. Do you think so? Yeah, I'm not condoning it at all. Not condoning it. It's ridiculous. 13 games? Yeah, it's a random number, but sure, why not? Yeah, 13. Robbo? Oh, absolutely. I'd like to do that to you every so often, Dan, but I think I'd go over the top, wouldn't I? Robbo, get in the back of the queue.

43:56Horrible little man. Horrible little man.

44:02Life-saving soldier, you say. Don't worry. Don't worry. Robbo hasn't had his skinny dip today in the pool. Oh, well, that's a picture right there. 13 games, Frank. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I like it in the way that the guy finds a kind of injustice in a way that they say, I only push the guy, the guy's on the floor, I'm going to be red-carded, so I'm going to be red-carded for something. Come over, punch him in the face. And for me, that's fun. I love it. I almost did the same with QL because I got red-carded and I stamped on his foot and I told him, now I know why I'm red-carded, you know, and I went to the dressing room.

44:43That was Harry QL, wasn't it? I didn't get 13 games. Harry QL. I didn't get 13 games. I should have gotten maybe. but at the time the Premier League was about fighting and not keeping the ball. I wonder how they come up with that number. 13-9. It's very random. 7, 9, keep going. 12, keep going. A lot of questions here about the game today on Extra Time. We'll be answering those over on our YouTube channel. Be sure to go over there and have a little look. They're a horrible little man apparently. Well, yeah. Nashville against Tigres then as we've taken it to the CONCACAF Champions Cup semi-final.

45:19And it'd be Tigres who would win this game by one goal to nil. Ángel Correa. Former Atletico Madrid player difference maker. Now making a difference for Tigres. Goalkeeper gets there but can't quite make the save that he wanted. Ends up being an important goal for Tigres. Ángel Correa. Yep. 1-0 then, and we'll take the advantage into the second leg. Ali, Herc, and Alexis will be breaking down everything we've seen in the CONCACAF Champions Cup. Be sure to check that out. Evan Cohen here. Game day brings the excitement. Your stay should feel just as memorable. With Marriott Bonvoy, official hotel partner of the NCAA and U.S.

46:01soccer, you're connected to a portfolio of brands designed for how you travel. Some offer complimentary breakfast. Others give you room to spread out, space to stay productive, or extended stay comforts. So whether you're a traveling fan or part of the team, Marriott Bonvoy celebrates the moments that live on before and after the game. Marriott Bonvoy, where game day checks in. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is?

46:35With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews, all on the Thumbtack app. Download today. That is it. That brings us to the end of today's show. More Arsenal. You horrible little man. I know. That's very nice. Look, they've had enough of you. That's it. Oh, it's hot. Stay with us. It's hot. Oh, we're back. There we are. We are back. Welcome to the Extra Time. We're having some graphic issues, but fear not. Not as bad as yesterday. I have your graphics yesterday. We didn't have any issues yesterday. Just useless numbers.

47:10There we go. Did Robbo and Frank are with us? I was actually disappointed. There was no horribly irrelevant graphics today. There we go. I think this answers the first question. Did Arsenal Athletic bring back Connecticut Craig? Obviously, we saw Wembley Craig, friendly and happy and chatty. But no. No, no, that's not true. What do you mean? That was normal. That was normal at Wembley? Why you got one eye closed there? Well, because I haven't quite seen you friendly and chatty in Connecticut that often. Oh, no, at the golf course. Yes, at the golf course, yes. Golf course. Golf course, Craig, is the mayor of the golf course.

47:40This is work, Daniel. For Robbo. This is focus. For Robbo. Why do you think Arteta has evolved into the current star we see Arsenal deploying? They're an eyesore compared to a couple of years ago when Saka, Odegaard and Martinelli were flying and they were playing attractive stuff. I can't put my finger on it because there was a time when they had great triangles on the right-hand side, the left-hand side of the field, which were hard to stop. Odegaard reversing balls for Saka, Saka making those little runs. Ben White was making overlapping runs. And you knew what they were going to do, but it was hard for teams to stop them.

48:13And they got players in the box. For some reason, Arsenal were playing at a much slower pace. And I don't quite understand what Iteta has tried to do that. is he just being overly defensive? Is he worried about too many players breaking forward and being caught on the counter-attack? I'm not sure. I think the success of the early part of the season, now he's expected to go and win. I think the fear has set into him and that's why they play more conservative football because he's desperate to win something and he thinks that's the best way to win it just to make sure they don't lose heavily or whatever.

48:45I just don't understand it, I have to say. Playing scared, Robert? Frank? Yes. I think it's what it is. I mean, especially lately, where we could see where they were flying at the beginning of the season and until the winter turn, where we all thought that it was an easy way to win the Premier League and maybe the quadruple. and they changed their mind and it's only because of lack of experience maybe and yeah the fear of winning that changes his mind and because he had great players at the back he thought it would be enough to win everything with maybe the four guys at the back and Raya. And of course they may win the Premier League and the Champions League and maybe they'll win the Champions League.

49:32What does that say about the rest? Well surely that just says that he's been rewarded for these tactics in the end. What does it say about the rest? What do you mean, what does it say? The rest of the Champions League is poor quality. No, the rest of the Premier League, I'm basing it over 38 games. Right. What does it say about the rest? Well, yeah, that's true. Arsenal can be the way they are and the way they've been, and they weren't as bad as this at the start of the season, but that doesn't say a lot for the rest, does it? Really, which I think sums the Premier League up in a nutshell. Don't question the Premier League to Dan.

50:01He was... I don't think I was... He was very passionately defending the league during the show. Well, I'm a big defender of the Premier League. Passionately. Passionately, yes. That's what everyone says. There he is. There's that horrible little man. He loves the Premier League. I wouldn't have given the third penalty, but the VAR calls seem like re-refereeing rather than overturning something clear and obvious. Don't start me. Should VAR have that much power over subjective calls, Craig?

50:35Oh God. Connecticut Craig. I mean, VAR asked the referee to go and have a look at something that he thought was innocuous. And the referee agreed. Is this clear and obvious? Right decisions, wrong decisions. Alright, what are we looking at? Wembley's gone. You know what, Dave? Some of the questions extra time just drive me nuts. Ali, why didn't Sorloff see the pitch today? He has a knack for late goals. He does. And there was a moment there for a decision to be made by Diego Simeone once Julian Alvarez had to come off the field. If you bring Sorloff in, not only do you bring the threat of a guy that can get you a header or a flick on, he can give you the hold of play, which then allows Anton Griezmann to remain in the position in which he had been so successful, playing those underneath spaces and finding those little flick-on passes.

51:38Because Sorloth was not able to come on the field, or Simeone made the choice not to bring him on the field, then Antoine Griezmann is put in a position in which he was lost in between two center backs, wasn't getting the touches that he wanted, and now that responsibility was on Alex Baena, who has been very inconsistent with Atletico Madrid. I thought the decision, the correct decision for Simeone, should have been Sorloth, because he can help you two ways. He can help you in terms of what he can give you in hold of play. He can help you in defensive set pieces. And he can also help you on offensive set pieces because of his size.

52:11Frank. And by the way, stop leaning forward when he's talking. Why? Because you're in his shot. I need my camera time. You were in his shot. You were in his shot for a long time. You're a big quiff at the front. You did it yesterday. You did it yesterday. You're leaning forward and you're in the shot. I mean, how long have you been doing this job? You shouldn't be leaning forward like that. I like it. I saw that yesterday too. Yeah, yeah. Oh wow. I saw that yesterday too. Yeah, leading forward getting his big quiff in the camera shot. Yeah, yeah. He wants to steal your thunder. Yeah, damn right.

52:43And you want what as well? No, no, I don't want because I'm feeling a lot of toxicity from you today and I don't like it. Can we have questions from different people? I'm sick of seeing the same people getting their questions on this extra thing. Maybe we have seven viewers. Those are the hardcore guys. We love you. Final question. Frank. Do you know what's annoyed me? No. Frank, have you ever in a cup tie where the manager's tactics were to hold out until the penalty shootout as early as half time? I'm not sure. I'm just sorry. So have you ever played a game where basically... Who did that? Who did that?

53:25Well, this person is suggesting that they're already playing for penalties. And they're going into the second league. That's why I kind of cut it down into something. That's why we shouldn't have really stupid questions from really stupid people. They're not stupid, they're lovely. No, they're stupid. That's a stupid question. Only stupid people. That doesn't mean anything. No, it doesn't mean anything. I agree with Craig. That question doesn't mean anything. It's impossible to answer to that question. Because you don't play to get penalties or to play the penalty shootout. No, you have 90 minutes before that or even more.

53:57So no, that doesn't make any sense. Thank you very much to everyone. Much appreciated. Better questions. Different people. I'm not on tomorrow. Send any questions you want. Well, I'm sure people will be disappointed. Yeah, I'm not. Stevie, Shaq and Don. Oh, hello. Don sent me an interesting rumour that he's heard from his sources. Don hasn't got any sources. I'm staring into the abyss. Just coming up with nonsense. Well, that's tomorrow. That's tomorrow's show. Good luck.

54:33Most protein drinks ask you to choose between results and taste. Bucked Up decided that's a ridiculous trade-off. Bucked Up makes lightly carbonated protein drinks, 25 grams of protein per can, clear protein, not milky or thick, and they taste so good that 25 grams of protein almost feels like a bonus. is bucked up is so confident you'll love their drinks they're giving away an island vacation just to prove it that's the kind of brand this is no purchase necessary giveaway ends may 30th enter and find your closest bucked up at buckedupenergy.com grab a bucked up and feel like a million bucks