PSG Go Back to Back

26:07And we were laughing about it because when they got corners as well, they're so unlikely to score because they're not a big physical team. They've got one or two big physical players, but they're not a big physical side. But they don't need that. Their physicality is their mentality and their ability and the way they move the football around. It's seamless, it's slick, and it's brilliant. Not today so much, but in a general rule of thumb, It is brilliant to watch. Robbo? Yeah, I saw Luis Enrique when he was the manager of Roma. And all good managers over a course of time, if they last a long time, they're innovative.

26:41They do one style of football. That's the way they want to play. And then after two or three years, they think they just readjust it and bring something else into the game. I mean, when he was at Roma, he had De Rossi playing as a sweeper and then he'd go into midfield and they played. Marquinhos was actually playing for him at that particular time. And he's changed the systems. He's changed the way he wants his philosophy. He was criticised when he was the Spain manager because they passed it too much and didn't have enough penetration. Well, he's changed that not today, but he's changed that over a course of time with PSG because they can score goals in many, many different ways.

27:10So he's been an outstanding manager for a long time and he'll look to be inventive again. So that's why he's going to be a manager, a very, very good manager for even longer to come. And that's what Pep Guardiola has done all these years. He's kept on just tinkering with things and changing with things and evolving things year in, year out. It's interesting, after the Spain debacle, which I think it's fair to say, where they lost, obviously you thought, well, where does he go from here? And as Robbo said, it's so impressive that he has changed, that he's not stubborn, that he has seen the error of his ways.

27:40Yeah, and he's also had tragedy in his personal life. And I think that gives you perspective as well as to what really matters, as to what really is important and taking advantage of the opportunities that you have in front of you because time is so precious. And so I do think that that plays a part as well. in that when he makes decisions, he's making decisions from a completely different perspective and a man who has a completely different appreciation for the opportunities that he has in front of him. So when he's telling Kylian Mbappe that either you defend and you help us out or you're not useful to us, it's because that's the way he truly feels and he doesn't have to play a political game anymore.

28:20So Kylian Mbappe, the best player in the world, allegedly, walks out the door and his team becomes somehow better. Better how much? Two times better. Two times Champions League winner, better. That's a credit to Luis Enrique. And we're talking about Luis Enrique in the big picture because today's match wasn't the best display of PSG and Luis Enrique, for that matter. Today was not their best game. In fact, I think of the games in the latter stages of the competition, it's as poorly as they have played. Some of that credit goes to Arsenal, but I think PSG could have done a whole lot better with the pace of the game.

28:58But in the big picture, you appreciate the culture and the identity of PSG that was brought forward by Luis Enrique, and that comes with experience. I don't think Miguel Arteta has that same experience, and we saw some of that on display today. So if we're saying that was one of PSG's poorer displays... Yeah, which is completely fair. I mean, you go back to the Monaco games. By their standards, which is a very high bar, and yet they were still able, and this is the point of this whole thing, I'm going to talk about Arsenal, is that PSG were able to be a little bit of a shadow of what they can be, and yet were still able to put their foot on the ball and dominate it with, certainly possession, with consummate ease.

29:42And I think that tells you where we are with how Arsenal approached this game, that they could be off-colour PSG and still have, what, 19 efforts at goal, still have 70-odd percent possession and still left the Champions League. That's the story in a nutshell. Just tying up a couple of things, Jürgen, did you think it was a penalty, the Meduake challenge? No, I don't think so. No, and Robbo, I don't think you're going to disagree. Well, what I would say is when I saw it on the telly, before we saw the replays, I thought, oh, it's a penalty here. But then when you saw the replay and the arm was across the defender or the attacker, I thought it was the right decision not to give him the penalty.

30:21And credit to the referee. I think he had a very, very good game. And before the Arsenal fans go crazy and that should have been a penalty, let's not have the conversation about whether Wukai Osaka's handball should have been a penalty in the first half. Absolutely. If we want to have that conversation of, oh, they didn't give us a penalty, well, they didn't give PSG a penalty either. Vitinha Manomac, should we want to discuss that? Huh? What?

30:46Well, he just told me in my year that it was... Arsenal was 20-26. 2006 the last Champions League 2006 I think as most people say it 2006 but I decided to ignore that as well OK PSG then champions of the Champions League once again they're pretty good aren't they against English opponents, they've beaten them all that's pretty good

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32:51Jürgen and Robbo are still with us. Iriola, by the way, is a favourite to take over. We'll talk about that possibility a little bit later on, but let's just discuss this decision first, Craig. And this is a decision that we've expected to come amongst us over the last couple of weeks, but maybe this comes as a surprise that Liverpool have actually done it. Yeah, well, once we were, as you know, when we were back in London for the cup final, the word from some of the journalists, including Mark Ogden, and our colleague was that they'd looked at Xabi Alonso and slot and they felt slot was the better option so at that point we were saying okay that Liverpool are going to give him the summer and they're going to go again and he's going to get an opportunity to start next season that's certainly what it felt and that was only two weeks ago particularly when Alonso takes the Chelsea job it was pretty clear that Liverpool weren't convinced about him now obviously Areola has made it clear that he was leaving Bournemouth.

33:41So that was out there. But it did seem that Slott was going to survive. Not that we felt, most of us, and certainly I didn't, I didn't think he'd done enough to survive. And I think that it looked like it needed a change in terms of the impetus and a little bit of freshness about it. But once the Alonso thing unfolded and what we were hearing, to see that this morning, I was surprised. But clearly they've looked at it and went, do you know what? Areola, decision has to be made. we're going to do it. So in some sense, he's maybe a little unlucky that he won the league. Should he have got another year, there'll be some in that camp.

34:17But I think Areola getting in there, if that's the case, that could be a very exciting appointment. It was so amazing, actually, to see in real time how the bucket of equity that he had built just began to empty, empty, empty. And every game and every week that went by, a guy that sits usually in this seat, Stevie Nichol, who was defending Arnazlott. Okay, Arnazlott. Here we go, Arnazlott. Alright, Arnazlott, I believe okay, I'm not believing anymore. And that's as the equity is going down and down and further down and how he's handling certain decisions and how he's handling the team. And then Mohamed Salah puts out on social media what he puts out.

34:58There is no support really from the players. Other players like the tweet that or the message that Mohamed Salah put out on social media as well. And he just creates this environment in which a bucket full of equity, empty, totally empty by the end of the season and unsustainable. Therefore, it's not a surprise that he's gone. It's just it feels like once he survived the end of the season, it felt like, OK, maybe he is surviving. Not so much. He gone. Tough school, this management, Lark, Juergen? Yeah, it's a tough one. I mean, obviously, he had a fantastic first season winning the title. And this year, it didn't go his way.

35:40Obviously, there's a lot of stuff that we do not know. We do not know that, you know, who made the decisions on certain transfers, you know, to fill basically this bucket with equity, as Alejandro says. You know, who is responsible? Is that on a slot who wanted, you know, to double the positions with national team players, top players that you have to, at the end of the day, then put two or three of them. I'm talking about the forwards and first and foremost on the bench. You know, Mohamed Salah, you cannot put on a bench. And Florian Wirtz, when you buy him for$150 million, you cannot put him on the bench.

36:17And you have a Gakpo, you have five, six of these top class forwards, and suddenly you have a problem in your dressing room because these players, they want to play. They want to play every single game. And so the question is, was that on the slot? Who wanted them so badly? Who wanted to double the positions? Or was that people within the club that made those calls? But eventually, for a manager, and that's our role as a manager, you pay the price if the results are not coming in. And this year, unfortunately, the results didn't come in. And I'm still surprised a little bit because I thought, okay, there's not much out there in the market now for them to look out for.

36:58But I thought they'd give him another year and then maybe things calm down. The year one then after Mohamed Salah, basically. But, well, they pulled the plug and I'm a bit surprised of that. But Jürgen, if we're applauding Luis Enrique for making big decisions, like Benchin Dembele or Carver Skellia this season, why is it a different kettle of fish for Arnaz Slott when he makes a big decision and drops his main player? Well, because the hierarchy within the team is, from the outside, you cannot judge that. You know, you can only feel the hierarchy between the guys in the dressing room. These are 25, 28, sometimes 30 players.

37:37And you have to be very clear who are your leaders and who are your soldiers. And so every team is different. I mean, Luis Enrique was able then to redefine the hierarchy of Paris Saint-Germain with letting go Mbappé. and obviously before that, Neymar and Messi as well. But we don't feel the chemistry of the players and the spirit of that team. But I said it in the beginning of the season when they brought in, they had basically six top-class strikers at Liverpool and three of them have to be on the bench. If you play with three strikers, which a lot of people don't even do that. A lot of them play with two or even one strike only.

38:20But that caused, from the beginning on, caused problems. And Florian Wiltz took his time to adjust to the club, to adjust to a new lifestyle in Merseyside and understanding how difficult it is sometimes to go abroad and be the same player as you were before that in your hometown. But professional football doesn't give you the time. They ask for results. They ask for goals from strikers. And so it was difficult from the outside, as we always discussed it throughout the season, to judge the players and to understand the hierarchy of that group of players. And then, obviously, the relationship between manager and players is vital, is very, very important.

39:10And when a player like Mohamed Salah then speaks out with the media, that doesn't help you at all. Where did it go wrong, do you think, Robbo, for him? Well, for me, I think it went wrong in the summer. Not with the signings. Izak, I don't think, was a good signing because that took a long time and he wasn't fit when he came. And I've said it many, many times when I've seen it happen to Arsenal with Aubameyang. When a player is getting older and he's been a great player, Mo Salah and Van Dijk have been great players. Their contracts were up and they had to pay them either a fortune to keep them or to say, right, their time's up.

39:45They're not going to be able to be those players anymore. They signed them and gave them massive contracts or massive money, and they're a year older. And they didn't perform. And then the manager's got a problem. He probably didn't want Mo Salah in the side because he wasn't playing well enough. But as Jürgen just said, you can't drop Mo Salah. So he's now in a difficult situation. Do I drop him? Do I not drop him? I want to drop him, but I can't. And eventually he does, and it causes problems. Van Dijk wasn't playing very well, and he was blaming everybody else for all the mistakes and throwing his arms up in the air.

40:15and saying the other players weren't working hard enough, he was one of the major problems. The two players they carried on and signed and gave them massive contracts was the biggest fault they made in the summer, along with Isak. I bet you now, on that sort of point that Robbo makes, is that he's been sacked anyway, and he probably wishes he'd made some of those big decisions that upset players and maybe upset supporters. Because, you know, if you're going to... Every manager's going to get sacked at some point. You might as well... You might as well go, having made the big decisions that you thought were right.

40:47There's no doubt those players did not help him. Kanati, Van Dijk, the experienced players, McAllister, Gravenberg, they did not play well this season. But I think a gauge of where this is, is there's a sympathetic thank you from the Liverpool fans. There's no fighting, there's no moaning about it, certainly from the bulk of them. There's a, well, thanks for the title. Don't let the door hit you on the way down. But it's time to move on. And I kind of think that's where they've been for quite a few months. If you've watched games coming in from Anfield, it's been five or ten minutes of the crowd getting up in excitement and then other sides gaining possession in Liverpool, dilly-dallying, being very pedestrian, and a crowd getting frustrated.

41:28And I think that's where they are. They wanted a change in the management side and that they're going to get it, but how much of a change they're going to get back on the pitch, that remains to be seen. In today's world, planning ahead isn't always top of mind, but not having life insurance can leave families facing difficult financial uncertainty during already emotional times. In many cases, loved ones are left managing expenses, debts, or long-term obligations without a clear plan in place. Life insurance is one of those ways to help provide financial security and support when it's needed most.

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43:06Jürgen, Iriola is linked. He's the favourite to make that move, obviously leaving Bournemouth. Heavily favourite now to take over at Liverpool. Stupid question. Oh, here we go. Again. As a manager, what are the big differences from managing a side like Bournemouth to a juggernaut like Liverpool?

43:27Well, the big difference, one of the big differences, there are obviously a couple of big differences, but one is, you know, So how big of a support do you have from the board or from your CEO or whoever is above you when things go wrong in your first couple of months? You know, if you maybe have three losses in a row. And so how secure are you in your position? What is your leverage with the players? when you're coming in and the players see after two months that if you lose two games he's already kind of in doubt then it's not going to be the same atmosphere in the dressing room that if you know the ceo says clearly no matter what happens this is our manager for the next two years three years four years do whatever you want to do players but don't fool around with it then it's a different message so so you depend on on your relationship with with your boss and and that gives you the right leverage with the players.

44:25And this is what Luis Enrique has. They backed him from day one on. He said, I want to make some unpopular decisions. I want to send some big names away. I want to build a team that is there for each other. And there will be some questions. There will be a lot of doubters. There will be some media comments. But you have to back me in this process. Otherwise, maybe I'm not the right manager for you. And so the people that own Paris Saint-Germain, they sticked with that approach and gave him all the backing. So whoever now comes into Liverpool needs this type of support, needs this backing and needs to be made very clear to the team that he's set in his position no matter how the games go in the first couple of months in the new Premier League season.

45:16And then I think it can work out. He's ready though, isn't he? I think he's ready. you look at Bournemouth finish six when he took over who was the guy who was managing? He was managing Wills for a while, Gary, I can't remember How Neil was it? Gary Neil doing a good job but he's just keeping Bournemouth above that line and they made this change Bournemouth and the ownership because they wanted to be something a bit better than just staying afloat so they bring the guy in who'd managed at Rayo Vicano and done very well in Spain and they're all a great reputation but a little bit young so it was a bit of a risk but it was a risk worth taking because not only did they stave off relegation.

45:54Each season they finished better and better. They could have been in the Champions League next year had the results gone their way in the final day. Zabanya, they saw, they played for PSG, came on for PSG in the final today. Hoisin went to Real Madrid. Kierkegaard went to Liverpool. Semenu went to Manchester City and there have been others. And yet, with their recruitment and his management and his experience now and his knowledge, they finished sixth in the Premier League, let alone Bournemouth. So I have, and not only that, the manner in which they've played with a very small budget. So it is a big step because you're not talking to the Bournemouth players now.

46:33You're talking to big cheeses. You're talking to players that might stick two fingers up at you. It might happen. And that's a different scenario. But I do think he's ready. I think he's a very progressive young manager. Another one of the Spanish that are doing absolutely fantastically well. And I think he's ready for Liverpool. and I don't see anybody else out there at the moment why you would say, don't give it to Areola. There's nobody I can see that's going to step into this job that's got bigger and better shoes than him at the moment. Whether he'll be a success, I don't know. But I think he's absolutely deserving of it and it looks like he's going to get it.

47:10You know who wasn't surprised that Arnestlo was let go? Andonira Ola. Because we just discussed that Andonira Ola turned down the possibility or removed his name from consideration for Milan. He said, nah, that's not the project for me. You know why? Because Iragola knew. He knew that there was something else coming, something else down the line, and that is Liverpool. Now, as it pertains to the differences between Bournemouth and Liverpool, everything matters in Liverpool. Every press conference, everything that you say matters, every performance, every result, everything of every day, of every minute, of every second matters at a place like Liverpool.

47:51Because shows like ours, we will talk about Liverpool every single day if that's the case, if that's what it requires. And that, I think, is something that Idaola has to be able to address. That every single thing that he says is going to be analyzed, and every single performance from every single player is also going to be analyzed. It doesn't go under the table as it may for Bournemouth. And that result that perhaps may have been negative for Bournemouth, you just kind of let it go. That doesn't happen in Liverpool. Just ask on the slide. Robert, you get the last word on this. Well, I think Liverpool will be a better team.

48:26I think you'll get the best out of those players that they signed last year. They'd be better off. I mean, Mo Salah's been a wonderful player. Not last year. They'd be better off without him, without Robertson, who again was a wonderful player. But they were dissenting characters. There won't be so much dissent in the dressing room. I think he'll have a good start. And once he has that good start, you'll see those players like Florian Verts play at his very best. Liverpool will be a better team next year, no doubt about it. Jürgen, thank you very much. We'll let you go. Jules will be delighted only on the next edition of the Gab and Jules Show, celebrating another win for PSG.

48:55You can check out his celebrations. His wife works for Arsenal, doesn't she? Anyway. What kind of celebration is that? Well, that's sleeping on the couch. Okay, all right. If you've shopped online, chances are you've bought from a business powered by Shopify. You know that purple ShopPay button you see at checkout? the one that makes buying so incredibly easy? That's Shopify. And there's a reason so many businesses sell with it. Because Shopify makes it incredibly easy to start and run your business. Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10 % of all e-commerce in the U.S. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started.

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50:57Tonight, La Quinta, tomorrow you shine. Terms and conditions apply. Look at this list. We have got you covered for friendlies ahead of the World Cup. Scotland, Bolivia, Craig's on the call. Brazil against Egypt. I booked it off. Member member's gone. I booked it off. Argentina against Honduras. Morocco against Norway. Colombia, Japan. Now, me and Craig will be doing... Are we doing Argentina soon here, Craig? Yeah. Good job, Craig. Yes. I had a way to be on top of it. It said in my schedule, Argentina versus Iceland. Oh, well, we'll find out. So somebody's right and somebody's wrong. That would be exciting, wouldn't it?

51:37I did take those days off, by the way. Not because Scotland are playing. Yes. It's something way more important to do. Oh, yes. Would you like to see the trophy lift? Here it comes, everybody. Okay. PSG are your champions. Hey. Of Europe. Again, back-to-back victories for Luis Enrique's side. If you're just joining us. There you are. There's some breaking news for you. That is it. That brings us to the end of today's show. Robbo is back with us. Yep. Yep. There we go. Good. That is it. That brings us to... Deserving winners. Deserving winners. Deserving winners. Extra Time's up next. We'll be answering some of your questions about the Champions League and Arsenal and PSG.

52:17Oh.

52:21Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Craig and Ali are here. Craig, we signed 15 minutes late yesterday because of Robbo's technical issues. Yep. Get ready. That was it. I'm saying it's such a professional. He stayed with. You get ready. At that point, when you're having technical issues, you're on the clock, you start the show. You can imagine how calm he was about the whole situation. Well, it's a recurring theme, isn't it? What, Robbo getting stressed? No, he's technical issues. Wow. Wow. Oh, dear, dear, dear. Wow. What a... I don't think... Let me tell you, I don't think it had anything to do with me.

52:53I was in position a half an hour before the show was meant to start, and something went wrong. Technically, I think you're in. What a surprise. Robbo's blaming other people. Never my fault. He pulled the plug. Where's Mrs Robson? She'll back you up, won't you Robbo? Never your fault. Craig? Never my fault. Craig, do players have any preference over playing style or is winning the only thing that matters? Arsenal did finally win the Premier League, so do you think they're willing to implement the same approach? Er, I do. Look, winning matters, of course, it's the most important thing. But I do think players, most players, not all, I do think most players are interested in how your team plays.

53:35Right. Yeah, I mean, because you want to, certainly from my point of view, you want to win and sometimes you need to do anything you can to win a game. And sometimes games go that way. But if you're asking me over a 38-game season, would I want the team I was playing in to try and play a little bit? I would. Right. Because I've been in sides that I have had to defend. and don't see much possession. And that's not because they wanted to play that way, it's because they weren't good enough. And it's not enjoyable. So the answer is, I think if you can marry the both of them, that's the best way. If you think you can play the way Arsenal have, certainly in the second half of the season, for the next five years and be successful, and you're OK with that, then fine.

54:24But from a player's point of view, I think I want to go out and try and play a little bit as well. It's about player personnel and who you have in that locker room. So Venezuela-Brazil. Correct. And that's the point I was going to make. That, okay, look, they got Ronaldo, Venezuela's got me. I think we're just going to defend. But Arsenal aren't Venezuela. No, that's the point I'm making. That if you are an attacking player at Arsenal, if you're a Bukayo Saka or any other attacking player there, you're kind of thinking, you know, we have more about us than just defending. allow us the freedom to be able to showcase that, allow us the freedom to play to the level that I think we're capable of playing.

55:03And that's part of the criticism that we have of Arsenal, that we think they can be better than what they do, that they limit themselves when they just choose, and this is a choice, they choose to be as defensive as they are. Arsenal had the lowest possession stats, Robbo, in the history of the Champions League final. Yeah, and it goes down to Mikel Arteta. that as a coach, the only reason you go on the defensive is because you don't think you're as good as the opponents. You know, if you think the opposition are better than you, you're thinking, well, how are we going to stop them playing here?

55:35How are we going to stop that? We've got to defend well here. So Mikel Arteta must go into that game thinking PSG are a much better side than us. Otherwise, you wouldn't play in that manner, which is a worry for the likes of Saka, for the likes of Havertz, for the likes of Eze when he's playing and Trossard, because they're not going to get the best chance to show their qualities. We see at Atletico Madrid, Ali was talking about it on the show. If you were Alvarez or if you were one of the front players for Atletico Madrid, you'd be frustrated week in, week out that you don't get enough possession.

56:05I'm sure that's what some of the Arsenal players are thinking now, particularly Xocharez. Arsena said things... Sorry, that's a damning start, isn't it? In terms of possession. Yes, 24.7%. I mean, that's like, that's what Arsenal would have if they were playing an FA Cup game against a team two or three levels below them. That's where we are. And you know, the other point about that is when you're defending, sometimes when you have a dodgy back four, you know, you're not very good, a bit weak, then you will defend deep because you don't want to expose them. So you'll get numbers in front of them.

56:43You'll not leave space behind. but when you have a back four that's been lauded for a long time as one of the best in Europe certainly one of the best in the Premier League why wouldn't you squeeze the game? Why are you worried about Dembele running in behind you or Cavett Skelly when you've got this ability and speed in the back four? So therefore if you squeeze that game you can get 30, 20, 30 yards further up the field and you're all of a sudden imposing yourself on PSG when you're sitting as deep as that teams that do that are worried about the deficiencies they have in their side. Which, you know, Arsenal shouldn't be concerning themselves about that.

57:21But again, that's damage. 24 % possession in the Champions League final. That's less than Inter Milan had last year in a 5-0 demolition. That's embarrassing. Arteta said things didn't go our way. A penalty was given for PSG and no penalty was given to Moduque and then the penalty shootout. Well, listen. Let's get the crocodile tears out of the way. The Cavets-Galier one was absolutely nailed on. And the other one was probably a 60-40 call at best. And the referee, the on-field decision, stood. So, I mean, that's... It's just where Arsenal are. You look at the draw, they have an easy draw, however you want to paint it.

58:01Atletico Madrid, they weren't great. Sporting, they weren't great. It's just that you can only beat the teams that are in front of you. But you come up against a team where you have to play, you have to try and break them down, You have to try and do something. They didn't have that in their arsenal. And you give them credit that they beat the teams in front of you and you got to the stage. But you had to do more in order to win this. Miquel Arteta. I imagine Miquel Arteta watching Barcelona play and Hansi Flick and the way that they squeeze the play in the end. He must be having a heart attack.

58:27He must not believe that this is the way that the game is played. Conversely, Hansi Flick watching Miquel Arteta play is like, what are these guys doing? What are these guys doing? somewhere in the middle. There is a happy medium there. Somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot and Nekrerteta was not willing to meet that sweet spot. There's not one Barcelona player in the back four would get into the Arsenal team. Arguably. Arguably. Cuba is a young guy. You know, Gerard Martín never. Baldi's been out the side. At the point, they had four centre-backs today in Arsenal. Yeah. But even, you know, even with that back four, Hansi Fleck is approaches.

59:07If we're going to lose, we're going to lose trying to win with this back four. And yet, with a much stronger back four. By the way, they've got two back fours at Arsenal that could probably put Barcelona to shame. When you think about Timber and Calafiore and Ben White and others, and yet they're still sitting on the edge of the box. It's totally ugly. And if Arsenal fans think we've been picking on them, go back and watch the tape. Go back and watch the game. Or don't, please. Okay, for all, speaking of it, what do Bayern, Barca and Real Madrid specifically need to do to dethrone this PSG machine?

59:49Let's give you Bayern, Ali. Squad depth is important for Bayern Munich. They were lacking that. They also need to find consistency of play alongside Joshua Kimmich in the midfield. Leon Goretzka is no longer part of the picture of Bayern Munich and Pavlovich can be inconsistent. So they need somebody else alongside Kimmich that gives the freedom of Kimmich to control the game offensively, but then gives you balance defensively. They haven't had that for a few years now. Barcelona? Probably an extra, well, a couple of things. Certainly not in the attacking area. It's like signing Julian Alvarez.

1:00:25Although Lewandowski's gone, but he was out the side. He spent a lot of time on the bench towards the end of the season. I've signed Anthony Gordon, don't know what's happening with Rashford. So the forward areas, you know, it should take care of itself. You know, I think another player to back up Pedri and De Jong, because De Jong's had some injuries and, you know, Pedri picks him up now and again. But definitely you've got to look at your back four. If you're going to play that way, I think you need... It's at least one player next to QBRC, or maybe two centre-backs that can play that high line with a bit more organisation.

1:01:00I think because that is always going to be, it's the way they play, but they're just going to have to play it a little bit better, if that makes sense. And I think the players that they have in that back line have done a good job for Hansi Fleck, but they're not top quality players. Certainly not, you know, Jo Kinsella's been in the side because Baldi was not playing well. He's been here, there and everywhere. He's a great footballer, he's not a great defender. Gerard Martin's done a good job, but he's not a Barcelona centre-half. so they've got areas that they could fill and I think that's where they would need to improve if they're going to beat PSG Robert, you get the easy one, Real Madrid Well, obviously they've got to work harder as a team they've got some good individual players but Mourinho's got to get them to defend as well as attack and they've got to be more compact they've got to work harder as a team, as a unit to win the ball back and they've also got to work harder in the attacking areas to work as a unit and they can't have one or two players doing nothing when you want to defend and there's got to be better shape to the team.

1:01:58You can't have players rotating here, there and everywhere because when you lose possession, then you're in trouble. So there's got to be more discipline. They've got to take away the egos. They've got to play as a team and I still think they'll be OK next year. But will they replace PSG? Not yet. Robbo, what's the difference between Arteta's tactics and Mourinho's tactics? One is heralded as a modern manager while the other is called a dinosaur even though they pretty much play the same style of football. Well, I said about Mikel Arteta today, That was 80s football that Arsenal played today. It was nearly successful for them.

1:02:29They defended in a 4-4-2. Odegaard pushed up with Havertz when they were trying to push alongside him when they were pressing the ball, very deeply pressing the ball. And when they won it, particularly in the second half, they went direct. And they brought on Xocharez to play alongside Havertz. They were hitting long balls. They were trying to pick up the knockdowns and play from there. So there's nothing different. Arsene Wenger, who you know I love, would have been sitting in the stands. He would have said when he was manager and Stoke played that way and Wimbledon played that way, he would say it was anti-football.

1:03:00You know, they're looking for free kicks, they're looking for corners, they're looking for long throw-ins. They don't pass it around in midfield. It's anti-football. I wonder what he said to Mikel Arteta after the game. You know, that kind of way Arsenal played in the second half of the season and how they played today is all very well when you win things. And when you don't, you're going to put your head above the parapet. to be in the firing line. Prime Jose Mourinho, not always, because when he was at Chelsea, they played some good stuff. But he won the UEFA Cup with Porto. He won the Champions League with Porto.

1:03:34He won almost everything with Chelsea. He won the Champions League and God knows what with Inter. He blows Arteta. The difference is, he blows Arteta out of the water with what he's done in the game thus far. But when he stopped winning, and was still playing that way, it became a problem. because the entertainment factor was not there. People were fed up for it and it was stale. So there is no difference in terms of, you know, you've got one team that's defensive, another team that's defensive, but one manager has been super successful and the other manager is starting off on that road. But I hasten to add, I don't think...

1:04:11Sorry, just going back then, just going back then, I wonder where I thought maybe after winning the Premier League, all the emotional side of it would go away, all the pressure would go away and they would put in a performance today and go and put PSG under a lot of pressure and play some attacking football. I hope that's the case with Arsenal. Now they've won the Premier League, he can be more expansive. He doesn't have to play quite so nervously. They don't have to play quite so defensively. And he might go on and do a good job. But today wasn't a good example of how to play a game of football.

1:04:42The initial problem that we had, Dan, is that both Stewie and Gab said that Arsenal was going to get after PSG today, Robbo. Oh, man. Craig, where would Barcola... I thought they'd press high up the field, but they didn't do it. Where would Barcola best fit in the Premier League, Craig? Where would you put him? Frustrated, obviously not in the team. All right, Scalier.

1:05:08I mean... Arsenal. No, no.

1:05:16Arsenal? Arsenal. He'd fit in there, I mean he'd fit in. Chelsea have got, he's better than what Chelsea have, better than what Arsenal have, better than what Liverpool have at the moment to be honest. So yeah, I wouldn't think, he's a little, he could be a little frustrating, that player, but he's, you know, maybe just needs a run of games so I think he'd fit in probably most places. How do you act around a teammate who's just had an extremely difficult moment like Gabriel today? Can you say anything to comfort them? Do you just give them space? Well, Izzy missed a penalty as well. Yes, but I suppose that was counter...

1:05:53Yeah. So, obviously, you had that big mistake in the FA Cup semi-final. No, I got the boys... No, yeah, I mean... Thanks for bringing that up. That's all right. That's all right. If somebody said to me on social media again, there's the best assist that David Beckham's ever had. Man United fans still going on about it 20-odd years later. the players leave you alone. Yeah. Players leave you alone. That was a tough dressing room for me. It was a tough burst journey back from Villa Park to London. But what do you do? You've got to brush yourself down and get on with it. But not one of my teammates.

1:06:28Not one. Now, behind my back, maybe there was a different discussion. Yes. Which is always the case with you. What the hells have you done? But, but, but, which, you know, and I accept that. What about Euro 96, Gary McAllister having the penalty saved by Seaman? In the big Scotland England game? Yeah, yeah. No. Oh, no, no. No, we consoled Gary that night. We had a place in Stratford, near Birmingham, because we played two games at Villa Park. The only game at Wembley was the England game. So we went back to the hotel. Won't give you the whole story, but the boys had a few beers that night because we were allowed a bit of downtime.

1:07:06And Gary came down, and he was having a few beers, but he was just staring into it. And the boys were trying to console him. Yes. Don't worry about it. But he was a little bit emotional and he went to his bed. Interestingly enough, this is the mark of a man. When we beat Switzerland three days later at Villa Park, he was sublime in the middle of the park as Scotland captain. What I didn't get, and this is the difference in mentality from people with common sense and people who I understand, is some of the Tartan army, or a lot of the Tartan army, the Scotland fans, later on in international games booed Gary McAllister because he missed the penalty and ultimately that's why he retired from international football.

1:07:54Because we lost against the Czech Republic one night at Celtic Park in a qualifier and he got booed. And Gary had had enough by that point that's the moronic lack of understanding of some of them compared to players who know what it's like to step up in the big moment and have that pressure and not make a mistake just just have somebody save it or do something so no no yeah players never unless it's something like a sending off or what i'm stupid players never bother about stuff like that uh robo you've never done anything wrong, you always tell us. So it's an even discussion for me. Never, never.

1:08:32But also, I'm never sure that when a player makes a mistake, that you want two or three players running over and consoling him in front of everybody. Look, he made the mistake, we're going to console him telling everybody what they've done wrong. It's probably to be cynical about it. Goalkeepers often do that. But goalkeepers run out to a centre-half when he's made a bad mistake and cuddle him and all that. No, just get on with the game. That's what it's about. Players are going to make mistakes. They're going to do some good things. Just get on with it. I know you think Rob was being cynical about it, but it makes sense in that as a player, when they come to console you, you don't even know who came to console you.

1:09:05You're still thinking about the big miss. It doesn't make a difference. Yeah. And in fact, it doesn't make you feel any better. Not in the moment. Later on, perhaps, as you're trying to get over it, you may be able to talk about it. But in that moment, you don't want anybody tapping the back of your head and saying, it's OK, because you know it's not OK. Final question, Dan. How good does it feel to be the only one on the panel that truly knows football and predicted to score correctly? To be fair, I did say Arsenal would win on penalties, not PSG. So, let's not. Predictions are like what? Yeah.

1:09:38There we are. So, this doesn't really count. The bookies would not pay me. No, they wouldn't. They would not. That's it. That brings us to the end of today's... That's because you buckle under the pressure of Arsenal. Some of us picked a high score. You picked 3-2. Yes, I was hoping for an exciting game. You picked more goals in this game than anybody else. Yeah. It's your optimistic outlook, aren't you? It was PSG, wasn't it? I did get it right, I've been told. Penalties were 3-2. Oh, I haven't told you that. No, please. Those tweets about him are true. That is it. That brings us to the end of today's show.

1:10:13ESPN FC is with you every single day, remember? Right through the year. Apparently it's 4-3 on me. Oh, no, no, no, no. Huh? 4-3. 3-2.

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