In short
ESPN FC/Extra Time discussion of PSG beating Bayern Munich in the Champions League semi-final second leg to reach the final, plus preview of PSG vs Arsenal and a separate segment on reported Real Madrid dressing-room turmoil.
Guests/backgrounds
Frank Leboeuf (former France defender, pundit); Jürgen Klinsmann (former Germany striker, coach/pundit); Craig Burley (former Scotland international, pundit); Stevie Nickel (pundit).
Key claims
PSG’s early goal (Dembélé setup for Dembele/“Dembele” scoring) shifted momentum; PSG defended as a unit, denying Bayern space and limiting chances to essentially Musiala’s shot; Bayern’s key attackers (Kane, Díaz, Olise, Musiala) weren’t sharp enough. Referee decisions (including a handball/second-yellow controversy involving Mendes) frustrated Bayern but were largely correct “by the letter of the law.” Luis Enrique’s tactical prep included defending plan A and set-piece plan B.
Notable examples
Musiala chance; Bayern frustration after penalty/handball discussions; PSG’s defensive pairings (Pacho, Marquinhos) and Wayne Zaire-Emery on the right; PSG final opponent Arsenal’s set-piece threat and physical style.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPSG Advances to the Champions League Final
1:08 to 2:36
Discussion on the match and PSG's victory over Bayern Munich.
“Great work by Cavett Scalio with set up Dembele to make it 1-0 to PSG.”
Analyzing PSG's Defensive Strategy
2:38 to 4:30
The panel discusses PSG's defensive performance and key moments in the match.
“until somebody does that, they are the best team still in Europe.”
Bayern's Frustrations and Missed Opportunities
4:31 to 6:42
Insights into Bayern's performance and missed chances during the game.
“Harry Kane did not get into the game at all, I mean, they shut him down fantastically, leaded with the both center backs from PSG.”
Referee Decisions and Game Dynamics
6:43 to 8:00
Discussion on the impact of officiating on the match and player frustrations.
“And I'm thinking about the Taheder and Mocialla a chance and also Olize once.”
Impact of Luis Enrique's Coaching
8:01 to 10:02
Analysis of Luis Enrique's influence on PSG and team performance.
“It's interesting, Jürgen, you mentioned yesterday how this is the be-all and end-all really for Bayern's season.”
PSG's Tactical Mastery Against Bayern
14:00 to 16:44
Learn how PSG's strategy and preparation led them to success against Bayern Munich.
“You know, they're trying to find solutions to the usual way.”
Transition from Stars to Team Unity
16:44 to 19:12
Discover how PSG transformed from star-studded individuals to a cohesive team.
“We'll talk about the final a little later on.”
Arsenal's Path to the Final
20:04 to 21:55
Examine how Arsenal reached the Champions League final and their potential strategies.
“PSG, of course, will face Arsenal in the final.”
Analyzing Arsenal's Tactical Challenges
21:55 to 27:00
Explore the tactical considerations Arsenal faces against PSG in the final.
“so Paris Saint-Germain will have to respect a lot the Gunners.”
Final Predictions and Insights
27:00 to 28:00
Hear the hosts' predictions for the Champions League final and the reasoning behind them.
“Jürgen, how much an advantage does it give PSG that they've been there?”
Show all 16 chapters
Early Predictions for PSG vs Arsenal
28:00 to 30:11
The hosts discuss their predictions for the UCL final featuring PSG and Arsenal.
“I think this is, I would not play in a final like that, not taking any risks, you know, against a fantastic PSG side.”
Real Madrid's Internal Drama and Management Challenges
31:28 to 40:44
The discussion revolves around Real Madrid's internal conflicts and management issues.
“According to reports in Spain, there's been a lot of infighting.”
Controversial Handball Incident
42:44 to 45:03
Discussion about a controversial handball call and its implications in the game.
“I've never experienced that before, but that's not my business.”
Extra Time Insights
45:09 to 48:14
In-depth analysis of the officiating and player performances in a recent match.
“Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time.”
Champions League Final Predictions
48:17 to 51:08
Predictions and strategies for the upcoming Champions League final.
“Now, listen, I'm not going to backtrack on that, in case you're asking.”
Wedding Stories and Teammate Bonds
51:09 to 56:00
Light-hearted stories about weddings and past teammates' experiences.
“So, and if they carry on like that, you never know.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Craig Burley:Thrivent believes money is more than numbers. It's a way to care for the people, causes and community you love. That's why Thrivent brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs, offering advice, investments and insurance to help you plan your finances while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or direct charitable funds, Thrivent makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters most to you. With more than 120 years of experience and as a Fortune 500 company, Thrivent continues to serve individuals, families and communities across the country.
0:42Craig Burley:To learn more, visit Thrivent.com. Thrivent, where money means more.
0:53Craig Burley:Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas. Joined by Craig Burley and Stevie Nickel we'll kick off of course in Germany. Bayern Munich taking on PSG. Finally poised going into this second leg. 5-4 of course to the French side and it would just take two minutes for them to add to their advantage. Great work by Cavett Scalio with set up Dembele to make it 1-0 to PSG. Bayern Munich huffed and puffed as the game went on. They were furious when they thought Mendes should have got a second yellow card for a handball. In the end, the foul was given against Lehmann. And in the end, they just didn't have enough in front of goal.
1:28Craig Burley:And it's PSG back to the Champions League final, once again advancing 6-5 on aggregate. For more, let's welcome in, shall we? Frank Leboeuf joins us, as does Jürgen Klinsmann. Fair to say, Craig, the best team won over the two legs?
1:40Steve Nicol:I think so, just about. I mean, obviously possession was Bayern's, but we don't judge on possession alone. I think they dominated the first game as well in terms of possession. But actually I felt in Paris, they were, I don't know what you guys think, I felt in Paris Bayern looked more dangerous. Although they had a lot of shots, you saw the graphic, they did have a lot of strikes. Most of them were from an area where it was going to be really difficult to score unless there was something special, where in the game in Paris, it seemed to me that they created better chances. and that's a credit to PSG in terms of it was more of a defensive display from them today.
2:16Steve Nicol:They of course themselves were dangerous going forward. The early goal really was a big killer. A big killer in terms of the momentum for Bayern Munich. But yeah, I think PSG, they're proving themselves to be last year, an amazing end to the season, beating Inter 5-0, European champions and they are there to be knocked off their perch again. until somebody does that, they are the best team still in Europe.
2:43Gab Marcotti:No question. Right. You know, I think Frank was laughing before we actually started the show about defending, hallelujah, at last. And I think that opportunity that we showed that Diaz had, where you've got two defenders closing them down, which means that Diaz doesn't have a lot to shoot at, that kind of happened all night. And they only really made one chance, Bayern, for me, and that was a Moussiala one, they put way too near the keeper. So yeah, I think we've got to say that PSG, we know how good they can be on the break, but tonight they showed us that as a unit, they can defend because they had to, they were in their own half for long periods, but you never get, we never got the feeling that Bayern were ever, ever going to take over this game.
3:28Craig Burley:Who's got their window open? Someone's backing up into it. Somebody backing a garbage truck in our ear here. I mean, it's like... Jürgen, why wasn't this what we saw in the first leg?
3:41Yeah, I mean, as you guys said, you know, it took a lot of the air out of the situation with the early goal from Dembélé. I mean, this was a shocker. And I think Bayern Munich did not expect such an early goal from PSG. And then it was a defensive masterpiece, how they kind of defended the entire game, PSG. Frank can talk about that far deeper as a defender. They didn't give them any space. Musiala's chance, as you said, was probably the best chance they had until finally Harry Kane basically equalized the game in the last minute. But it was frustrating. It was something that I think Bayern in that moment didn't expect, that they run after a 2-0 basically deficit.
4:31it and yeah, I think some players did not perform at their best, which happens, but if you want to get into a Champions League final, in the semifinal, you need to have almost your entire team, all 11 on the field, almost reaching all of them 100%, and I think they were lacking a couple of percent in many of the players today. Harry Kane did not get into the game at all, I mean, they shut him down fantastically, leaded with the both center backs from PSG. But until his last strike, then last minute, you really didn't see him much, which is a compliment to PSG. And Luis Diaz didn't have the sharpness.
5:12Musiala didn't have the sharpness. And, yeah, that's what happens then. And then you kind of look at it and say, you know what? It didn't go the way we wanted it. And it's highly, highly frustrating. I think a positive note to the way they swallowed the fact that it was not giving a penalty with the handball there, because it was a huge discussion point, obviously. But they moved on Bayern Munich. They didn't complain much about it. And they tried to get back into the game. But, you know, a huge, huge compliment to Paris Saint-Germain for this performance. Frank? Yeah, I was very pleased with the way Paris Saint-Germain defended.
5:55especially Pacho and Marquinhos, but I want to add Wayne Zaire Emery on the right side, substituting Hakimi injured. And they did all well. And of course, we have to add Mendes. We all know that he's a fantastic player. And finally got Olysee in his hands because that was hard on the first leg, but second leg, we didn't see too much Michael Olysee. It's maybe the turning point. And the X factor is the fact that Olize, Kane and Luiz Dias weren't at their best. But I don't want to be too hard on Bayern Munich. There are so many chances. There are chances. They weren't maybe lucky or maybe a little bit clumsy, but it could have turned the other way.
6:41And they had some chances, especially the first half. And I'm thinking about the Taheder and Mocialla a chance and also Olize once. So it could have been either way for me. and you have to congratulate Bayern Munich for their campaign. But Paris Saint-Germain is Paris Saint-Germain and they know how to deal with games if they have to go be offensive and also defensive in that game. And you have to congratulate, of course, Luis Enrique for putting the right tactic today again against one of the best teams in Europe, maybe the best team in Europe.
7:15Steve Nicol:Bayern Munich seem to get frustrated. I know Jürgen said they moved on from the penalty, but as the game went on, which I think, by the way, the referee by the letter of the law got correct. But as the game moved on, it seemed that every decision not necessarily was going against Bayern, but they felt it was going against them. Even when Kane fell on the ball near the end and it was handled, he gave the free kick correctly to PSG and it just seemed a great frustration. I think that was borne out by Joshua Kimmich getting booked after the final whistle because he was just berating the referee. and I think that frustration in the end just, and not necessarily because the referee had a bad game, I don't think he did, to be honest with you.
7:58Steve Nicol:They might have been the odd little foul here or there. But I think he got the big decisions, technically he got them correct, but that frustration when you think it's not going your way, when you're not getting those little decisions, and that's just how it felt in the end for Bayern, that they felt every little decision the referee was given was going PSG's way.
8:15Craig Burley:It's interesting, Jürgen, you mentioned yesterday how this is the be-all and end-all really for Bayern's season. Frank said, you know, on a different day, they could have taken those chances if the ball had bounced their way. Does that offer an excuse for Vincent Kompany on his side? I don't think that they're going to look for any excuse. I mean, they're going to be hugely, hugely disappointed because they badly want to get into the final since it didn't happen last season. I don't think that they complain too much about, you know, what happened today on the field. But it will have an influence on the upcoming months, obviously, for the club.
8:51I mean, they're going to win the German title. They're in the German Cup final, so they might win the Dubal. But the majority of their German players will go to the World Cup. And this sits deep with them, you know, to lose in the semifinal of the Champions League. So to shake that off, kind of psychologically, that will take some time. But, yeah, there were moments, you know, where, I mean, they could have scored. they had enough chances, as Frank rightfully said, as well, but they were never really kind of determined and decisive enough to finish things off. And that's also the masterwork of Paris Saint-Germain because they shut down, if it's Musiala, if it's Luis Diaz, or if it's Olisse, they were always with two guys against those guys because obviously they know their moves.
9:37They know how they come inside from the outside. They come inside and they get better feet and then they want to finish in a certain way because that's We all know that, but still, you've got to run after them. You've got to be on them. You've got to be one yard in front of their face and make sure that they never relax and pull the trigger. And this was fantastic from PSG. And there, probably when you kind of look at that game in the next couple of days, you analyze this game for Vincent Kompany, he will realize that his key players were not at their best just in these 90 minutes today. They tried.
10:13They were okay. They created okay chances, but they were not decisive enough when it really mattered.
10:20Gab Marcotti:Vince and company 100 % will look on this game and say, you know what, I set this team up the right way and the best way I could. Because for the amount of ball they had in and around the final third, the amount of ball Diaz had, Olici had on that side, Kane was giving it away and Musiala had that one chance his front four let them down basically let them down because the rest of the team got them enough of the ball where they were in positions where they could hurt PSG yes PSG defended well but Vincent company can look at this game and say you know what it's one of those days where the players we needed to be at the best just weren't and there was nothing to do with the tactics or the way he set the team up.
11:04Steve Nicol:But those players, Stevie, they've been, it's hard to be, you can't really be harsh on them because those players, you know, Diaz, Kane, Michael Alise particularly, Musiala's come back from injury, obviously, but those other players have been brilliant for Vincent Kompany. Absolutely outstanding. But on their biggest, one of the biggest of evenings for them in the second leg of the Champions League semi-final, as Jürgen said, Harry Kane couldn't find a way into the game. Michael Alissi was trying things that have been coming off from all season and pretty much last season and when he was running into defenders or that pass was either to the wrong person or it was behind somebody and when he was taking the strike at goal it wasn't even close.
11:48Steve Nicol:All the things that they were doing and have been doing that have been finding the back of the net and you sat back and went that was brilliant. It wasn't there tonight for whatever reason, Whether it was the pressure from PSG or whether it was just one of those nights where the longer it went on and the more frustrated they got. Frank? Yeah, I just want to add something. I'm going to put that on the table. I know you three maybe are going to deal with that. But it's kind of a theory of conspiracy. But when I saw the name of the referee and his nationality at the beginning of the game, I say, oh, my God, the German will be able to complain about it.
12:25And when you see Vitinha kicking the hand of Neves on top of having Mendes and Ramos, I say maybe, maybe UFRA could have chosen maybe somebody. No, but I say that, but I can tell you the first thing that I thought when I saw the nationality of the ref, I say, well, four Portuguese in Paris Saint-Germain team could be a next factor. Because I remember playing in European Cup when I had a French coach, referee playing with Chelsea. I say, oh, good for me. I would be able to talk to him. And don't tell me, guys, that you never had that and you never thought that was a good point. I don't say because the ref was perfect.
13:04But that would give something for me.
13:07Gab Marcotti:We've had a bit. Just for the Bayern Munich people to complain about.
13:12Craig Burley:You know, a word on Luis Enrique and what he's done at PSG. We discussed it yesterday, last week. Dembele was saying, if I don't run, I don't play. And to get that out of a Ballon d 'Or winner, you've got to take your hat off, don't you, to what Enrique has done? I think it's huge what Luis Enrique has done in the last couple of years. It's an amazing work that he's done. You know, to have this team committed to do all sorts of work, and not only going forward with all the qualities that they have and score an amazing amount of goals and have really fun going forward. But, you know, he has them committed to do defensive work like no other coach maybe has right now in Europe.
13:59You know, what really, really impressed me, you know, you thought, OK, you know, Bayern Munich puts them under pressure. You know, they're trying to find solutions to the usual way. But what was really impressed me was they did not even give away any sorts of corner kicks or free kicks around the box. Because when your plan A is not working, you know, you go to plan B and you may pay hope, you know, for a couple of corner kicks. You know, you have Tarn, you have Uba Meccano, and you have some guys that can really hurt you on corner kicks. PSG did not give away those moments. So Luis Enrique prepared his team not only for the most likely kind of strategy that Bayern Munich comes up with, he also prepared them for the plan B of Bayern Munich, that if they are breaking through with the usual kind of players, Olisse and Kane and Luis Diaz, then we are ready also for their plan B with going with set pieces, with free kicks and all that stuff.
14:53And so the work that he's done is humongous because he has the players buying into a lot, a lot of work, a lot of work. And I mean, you can talk about the biggest teams in Europe. You know, that's the main job of a coach that you get everybody behind you and do also the dirty work. And he's done that. And this is outstanding.
15:16Craig Burley:Frank, how it's changed. It seems a light years away now of the Messi and Mbappe-Nemar days. Yes, exactly. And it's really amazing to see that team, after getting rid of all his stars, getting results like that and twice in a row getting the Champions League final. And as you mentioned, and as you were talking about it with Jürgen, the commitment of every player is 100%. You see people on the bench being with the guys. They get out, and we saw Dembele and Dewey on the bench with Fabien Ries being with the guys on the field, you know, supporting them. And you feel the unity of that team. You feel the hard work that they put on every training session and what you get out of it.
16:04And it's really amazing the way they play. Of course, they're talented players. But today, they showed that after that 5-4, that everybody said it's a game of the century, offensively perfect, that they're capable of defending in front of 80 ,000 people. Crazy atmosphere. And they were there. And as soon as they have a chance with players like Varadzhelia and, of course, Dembele, that first goal is absolutely fantastic. That team has no weakness. And I don't see any weakness right now. We'll see against the Gunners because it's going to be a final. It's going to be totally different. It's a final, but really, they are the favourites for me.
16:41I don't see them losing, but it's a final.
16:44Craig Burley:We'll talk about the final a little later on. You look at some of the players that stood out over those two legs and come out to Scalier, of course. It's just so much fun to watch. Liverpool bound. Yes, according to yourself, I believe.
16:56Steve Nicol:Listen, he'd walk into any team. I mean, it's scary to think he was actually out of the PSG team when they played Liverpool in one of the previous rounds. He doesn't look the quickest, but he has got a good turn of pace. It's the way that he drops the shoulders. He's got great movement. Michael Alise is similar in a sense that he throws these dummies as well that send some of the fullbacks for a cup of tea. And he's got this as well. He stood up when it's been needed. He's a brilliant player. He's got end product his game. He can run with the ball. He's a great dribbler. as I say, throws a great dummy in there and it's very difficult for a one-on-one defender to defend against him.
17:40Steve Nicol:And he works hard. And that's the common theme with this Luis Enrique side. He's supremely talented but it is aligned with the work rate. And that's got the signs. And that's the making of a great side. And they're not always a big physical powerful side. You haven't got Pacho and Marquinhos are big lads. But you look at Vettinia, you look at João Neves, Cavaschelli is not the biggie. Dewey's not huge Dembele's not big they're not a huge Nuno Mendes the fullback neither is Hakimi they're not a huge physical team but they're a strong side and they can mix it in that department with most and they will have to do that with Arsenal who are a big physical side but they are brilliant to watch and one thing is clear they respect their manager
18:29Craig Burley:and they want to play for them there's definitely a lot more questions on the Champions League over on Extra Time as always You can check that out over on our YouTube channel as we'll see Frank stay late along with the boys to answer your questions.
19:05Craig Burley:slash debt rebound loans originated by sofi bank na member fdic terms and conditions apply nmls six nine six eight nine one fast funds terms apply at sofi.com slash debt rebound thrivent believes money is more than numbers it's a way to care for the people causes and community you love that's why thrivent brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs offering advice investments and insurance to help you plan and your finances while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or direct charitable funds, Thrivent makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters most to you.
19:50Craig Burley:With more than 120 years of experience and as a Fortune 500 company, Thrivent continues to serve individuals, families and communities across the country. To learn more, visit Thrivent.com. Thrivent, where money means more.
20:08Craig Burley:PSG, of course, will face Arsenal in the final. Saka dominates the back pages as the Gunners book a place in their first Champions League final in 20 years. Now, I just want to make reference to something I said yesterday, an offhand comment about Arteta, which landed literally. Obviously, it was something, it was not intended to land that way. And I thought about it today and obviously I could have phrased it in such a better way. So going forward, I'll definitely try now not to say anything silly. Frank, looking at this Arsenal team, obviously, they did it over two legs against Atleti. And you have to say they haven't had the hardest of run-ins in the Champions League, but they've got it done.
20:51Yes, yes. And you have to congratulate them. And again, I just said, you know, it's going to be a final. You never know. You don't need to play well for a final. You just need to win it. And Arsenal definitely has all the tools to do so. As you say, a physical side, but they know they have experienced players. We know on set-pc they can make the difference and get rid of all the talent that the Paris Saint-Germain had. They know they can be united as well and work very hard. We don't know what kind of Arsenal we're going to get. Is it the Arsenal of the beginning of the season, the Arsenal for the last game against Fulham?
21:29or the Arsenal that we saw in the last two months, where definitely if they play like that, they're going to lose against Paris Saint-Germain. So therefore, Paris Saint-Germain is of course favourite, but I'm pretty sure Arsenal is going to be hard to be beaten, and they're going to give everything in order to maybe overturn all the betting that we can make about that. And I'm pretty sure Arsenal can win that final, so Paris Saint-Germain will have to respect a lot the Gunners.
Read the full transcript
21:58Gab Marcotti:Steve, you thought on yesterday's semi-final? It pretty much went the way I thought it would. And then when Arsenal go ahead, then all you can see is Arsenal's not going to give anything away. And you think Atletico are going to throw the kitchen sink at it. But they didn't. I couldn't figure out. Did they forget this was the second leg? When you're only one goal behind in the semi-final of any tournament, never mind the Champions League, surely if you're not going to go through, you need to leave everything on the field. I get the feeling they didn't do that. When you need one goal, just one goal you've got to start taking some chances and show every single thing that you've got to try and get forward and try and create.
22:47Gab Marcotti:And yes, they had that one chance we saw love, but other than that I was like, this team doesn't know where it's going going forward. I mean, they just it and again Arsenal for the last 15 minutes were kicking lumps at the ball, I mean they were panicking, they were just kicking it anywhere and everywhere and Atletico Madrid had no answers for anything whatsoever
23:11Steve Nicol:They had no ideas in the final third. No, it was scary You know the chance for Simeone came about from a bad Saliba header, it really didn't didn't create much so that's that's on them there's nothing Arsenal can do about that they go through and Adleti got what they deserved.
23:30Craig Burley:So taking a look at the odds when it comes to this year's Champions League final Frank alluded to it no surprise it is PSG who are favourites just not too much advantage to Arsenal according to the bookies. Jürgen, Arsenal go into this tie as underdogs if you're Arteta what's the plan to stop that PSG defence attack?
23:53I mean, for sure they're going to go into as the underdogs, but still it's a final. And as Frank said, you know, anything can happen in a final. It's just there to play. It's there to fight for every single ball and to make it your biggest day of your career. So even if PSG is the favorite, I think it's going to go down really to the last moment of the game. It will not be a clear result. anything can happen with a set piece which is Arsenal's specialty at least in the last couple of years might be a chance to do well against this strong defensive PSG side but PSG is the favourite but once they step on the field it doesn't really matter
24:34Craig Burley:What sort of final are we expecting?
24:41Steve Nicol:One thing I'd say is Arsenal Sorry I thought you were going to answer this there It's a poignant thought I'm not used to seeing that it's really a tough one isn't it if you think about Arsenal if you think about it and say well I think Arsenal sit in and won't try and go toe to toe and make an open game because if it's open Dombele and you know Berkola Dua Dui or however Cavett's going to run in behind but the danger is for Arsenal that they got very and I keep going back to this game but they got very defensive in the Carabao Cup final against City another side that can pass the ball and keep it for fun and have got a little bit to pace about them and they got so defensive in that game that they basically handed that win at Wembley all right Kepa made a bad mistake and goal but they basically handed that game to Manchester City because they made it so easy for them to have possession of the ball and whilst you can't leave yourself wide open of course that would be crazy you can't allow a team like PSG that amount that amount of easy possession of the ball deep in your territory because eventually even if you've got a bunch of players, you've got nine or ten behind the ball.
25:46Steve Nicol:I think eventually one of these players in the PSG team will find a way to poke something through or create something or do something special. So it's a bit of a juxtaposition for Arsenal because I think they will have to come out and play a little bit, but how much, I'm not quite sure at this moment in time.
26:03Gab Marcotti:I just keep thinking of the Arsenal City game where they decided to sit tight and it just completely and utterly backfired. They completely forgot how to play. You mean the cup final? Yeah. But then the game at the Etihad, they actually
26:19Steve Nicol:came out and played. Yes. It was one of their better performances.
26:23Gab Marcotti:Right, and that's why I think they have to do that in this final. I don't think they can go and sit. And I'm not saying you go toe-to-toe and it ends up Bayern PSG from the first leg of the semi-final. But they have to be on the front foot and try and squeeze PSG, in my opinion, because Because I can't get the cup final out of my head. Now, in some ways, that's good for PSG. But at the same time, I think for Arsenal, it's better than sitting tight and sitting too deep. Because if they do that, you can't ask this team to come at you. You're asking for trouble.
27:00Craig Burley:Jürgen, how much an advantage does it give PSG that they've been there? Done that last year. They know the preparations they're going to have to go through. And obviously, they know exactly what it takes to win. Well, it's always good to have a bit of experience with these specific situations, obviously. It's a huge, huge game. But I think, you know, once the Arsenal players step on the field, they are really aware of, you know, what they could do, what special moment that is in their career, in their life. And it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that is now there. And I really hope so that they go for it, that they don't, you know, sit back and just defend and wait for some counter breaks.
27:40because I think one of the strengths of Arsenal certainly in many of the games, not saying all the season long, but in many of the games is when they are starting it on the front foot, when they go up, you know, they're high pressure, they put their opponents a bit under pressure in their half and, yeah, and take some risks. I think this is, I would not play in a final like that, not taking any risks, you know, against a fantastic PSG side. I think you can surprise them as well. And then you have your own weapons, different weapons than PSG has, but I think Arsenal does not need to hide at all.
28:18They can go for it.
28:19Craig Burley:Right then, early predictions, Frank? Well, you know what? If Paris Saint-Germain can score a goal like tonight, very early, it could be a disaster like last season with Inter Milan. But I will be more respectful towards the Gunners. We say 2-0 for Paris Saint-Germain.
28:39Steve Nicol:What if it's a Portuguese referee? Well, this is it. Do we know who the referee and where he's from
28:44Craig Burley:and whether or not he can talk to the players? Expiracy. Jürgen, prediction? Oh, predictions. I was so bad today with the prediction. Yes, you were. I said Fortu Bayer. You know, that really... I like everybody. But I would give the Gunners a chance in that game. I mean, obviously, Peixier is the favourite and it's a fantastic team and they deserve all compliments in the world today. But I think, you know, this is a unique game. It's just one game. And I think Arsenal will win it 2-1 in extra time. Wow.
29:19Steve Nicol:Oh, the ex-Tottenham man there. Oh, my God. Wow. As long as first... Returning your vest, we see. In French. Well, you know, if PSG play to their potential, which can be quite scary, I think they win the game. PSG win the game, yeah. OK, why are you saying it in a whisper?
29:47Craig Burley:Stevie? Yeah, I'm going with PSG. PSG? PSG. I agree with Jürgen. Ask them all the way. PSG then. Oh, yeah, we knew that. We knew that was coming. Yeah, final. What is that? He hate the French. He hate the French and the Portuguese. Real Madrid are the only side, of course, who have won the Champions League back-to-back. PSG looking to join them in the record books. More European action tomorrow. Be sure to tune into ESPN FC.
30:17Gab Marcotti:Most protein drinks ask you to choose between results and taste. Bucked Up decided that's a ridiculous trade-off. Bucked Up makes lightly carbonated protein drinks, 25 grams of protein per can, clear protein, not milky or thick, and they taste so good The 25 grams of protein almost feels like a bonus. Bucked Up is so confident you'll love their drinks. They're giving away an island vacation just to prove it. That's the kind of brand this is. No purchase necessary. Giveaway ends May 30th. Enter and find your closest Bucked Up at BuckedUpEnergy.com. Grab a Bucked Up and feel like a million bucks.
30:55Craig Burley:Evan Cohen here. PayPal is now the official peer-to-peer payment sponsor of the NFL, which means all the money moments that fandom creates, whether splitting tailgate costs or chipping in on tickets and game day food between friends are covered. Wherever the game is played or watched, PayPal moves with fans. You can send money through text, email, or directly to your friends with eligible accounts on Venmo. Just download the PayPal app and share all the moments that matter. Account with PayPal is required. Not available in all regions where PayPal operates. Right then, quite the drama around Real Madrid over the last couple of weeks.
31:32Craig Burley:According to reports in Spain, there's been a lot of infighting. Valverde against Chiumeni. Do you want me to read this? No, I can read it. Why? Well, you want to stay away from this, can you? Players nearly came to blows during Wednesday's training session. Carreras and Rudiger. Carreras confirmed there was an incident with a teammate that included Rudiger slapping Carreras. This was back in April. Killing Mbappe, of course. Lots of talk about him. He's been involved in a flare-up with an assistant coach during a training exercise. He took that trip, of course, to Italy this weekend while recovering from a hamstring injury.
32:06Craig Burley:Jürgen, when we've spoken about players and infighting before, you said, I'm going to take them all for a nice cup of tea and we'll have a chat about it. That's a lot of tea at the moment to keep all these players happy. As a new manager coming in, of course, it won't be Arbeloa, but whoever takes the reins, How do you deal with all of this turmoil that seems to be going on internally? Well, it shows you a bit the masterwork of Carlo Ancelotti over the years at Real Madrid. How he was able to deal with these big, big egos and big names and big players. Because it's really difficult because they all have their own agendas and they all have their ambitions.
32:49and all have different things on the side, you know, besides just playing football. It is really important as a manager to have them kind of, yeah, with you, to have them, you know, positive towards you because they can make you or break you. And that's obviously in a locker room like Real Madrid or any of the big, big teams in Europe. It's tough. It's difficult. And I think PSG is a fantastic example, you know, to go a different direction and to get rid of the big, big names and just build a team with very, very good, fantastic players, but not superstars right away. And look where they are right now.
33:34And, no, these things, I mean, I went through them at Bayern Munich as a player, too. I was involved in arguments every single day. And they're not pleasant. They're not pleasant. And you've got to figure out a way to get through these periods. So maybe Mbappé said, I'd rather go for a couple of days to Italy and eat some pasta and have some cappuccino instead of fighting in the locker room at Real Madrid. But it happens. Absolutely it happens. And it's nothing new. But you've got to figure out a way as a club, meaning also there the management with your coach and whoever will be the coach there in the future time now after this season to get that under control.
34:21Otherwise, you're not going anywhere. It's amazing when things are not going as well as a club would like,
34:28Steve Nicol:how the sort of blame game starts to fester within the dressing room.
34:32Craig Burley:You start looking after yourself.
34:34Steve Nicol:You start looking at people who you think are making mistakes or not necessarily making mistakes because everybody makes mistakes. But maybe you look at somebody who's maybe not training properly or pulling their weight in games or working hard enough or whatever it is, or maybe speaking to the media about things they shouldn't be. And things start to fester. I mean, Ferry Valverde taking on Chouameni, that's a bit of a... Fair play to Valverde, that's a bit of a mismatch there. Chouameni, some big lads in that dressing room. But you very rarely, not never, but very rarely hear of a team that's successful having a scrap.
35:08Steve Nicol:I mean, it does... What the heck was that? I don't know if you can hear that at home. I don't know. It's not coming from me. I don't have a dog in my room. I don't know. Maybe Jürgen. I don't know.
35:20Gab Marcotti:It's on the opening of a creepy door. Was that you? No, dogs are outside. Who did it? The dogs are outside.
35:27Steve Nicol:We've heard the weirdest noises in 35 minutes of TV. But, you know, it's not a surprise, is it, Stevie, that this Real Madrid side... No. We've been listening to these noises all day with him. It's not a surprise.
35:40Craig Burley:The problem is, you've got such big characters there, and I suppose in theory you could say, well, get rid of a couple of them, get back to basics, but you can't. You're not getting rid of Vinny or Mbappe.
35:50Gab Marcotti:No, that's why the next manager is important. That's why you need somebody like Ancelotti. You know, every club has people falling out, right? Yeah. But the important thing is why. And it seems that Real Madrid, it is the blame game. You know, individuals sometimes don't get on Sometimes you catch somebody in training But when it comes down to the players pointing the finger at each other That's because of the manager Because the manager's the guy that steers the ship And he has to get everybody going in the same direction And the problem Real Madrid have Is they have two players in particular At least two Who want to go their own way And so that just causes trouble with everybody Because now when things are going badly you've got players like Freddie Valverde going, hold on a second, I am doing everything I'm told, I'm running my guts out for this team, I'm doing everything, but we've got players who are not doing that.
36:46Gab Marcotti:That's when everyone starts to go haywire. Then every single little thing becomes an argument or it gets worse and it ends up being a fight. That's why it's huge that you get the right manager. Because if they don't get the right manager, if they don't get a guy who's going to make Vinny and Mbappe and Berlingham toward the line, then just look forward to another season of what you've got.
37:11Steve Nicol:And you've got to have a dressing room that when this kind of thing does happen, you get over it. Right. I'm not suggesting there's a fight, but quite often things get a little heated and you've got to make sure that it's sort of done and dusted and the next day you're back at it. Whereas you get the feeling here, you go into that Real Madrid training ground on on a monday or a chesda he's not talking to him and he's not talking to him and he you know i'm saying and that's that's when it becomes a real mess because you know these altercations do happen when players get frustrated or somebody gives somebody one in training or whatever it is but most of the good squads certainly the teams i've played in if there's been something like that do you know what by the end of the day and certainly by the next morning it's done and dusted right and they might not be best of mates yeah but you just you just move on whereas this dressing room you feel some of them don't want to let it move on.
38:07Steve Nicol:Right. Don't want to let it move on. And that's why, and Jürgen mentioned Ancelotti, even Ancelotti and his brilliance in the last year was just, I can't figure this out. Yeah. You know, it was so difficult even for him, who has been arguably the master man-manager of the current era. Go on, Frank. The thing is, which for me is the most insane thing, is I see the blueprint of what I saw with Paris Saint-Germain. two years ago when they had to get rid of the stars in order to get a team. And Fiorentino Perez is guilty for that. He's the one who has to put down the hierarchy that every club needs.
38:47And he has to step back from the dressing room, stay in his office, lock the door, and I don't want to see any player complaining. It's what happened with Nasser Al-Halafi. He's a friend of mine, and we talked about that. And as soon as he decided to cut off all relationships with the players and put one boss, one captain in the ship, Luis Enrique, it worked. It worked. They have the recipe of how he can be working with Paris Saint-Germain. That's the best recipe that they've done. Just copy it. But as you said, it's going to be hard because you can't get rid of Vinicius Junior. You can't get rid of Guillaume Mbappé or Jude Bellingham.
39:29you have to deal with that. But put one boss in the dressing room and the boss decides for everything and you don't overturn his decisions. Otherwise, you're screwed. And it's what's happening right now for Real Madrid for me.
39:43Craig Burley:Which seems simple, Jürgen, but say you're appointed at Real Madrid tomorrow, you know all the pressure and everything that comes with it from above.
39:54But the key in this whole discussion is obviously the relationship that the manager has with his players, for sure. It's a very, very important piece of the puzzle. But the most important piece is, is the manager backed by the owner, by the CEO, by the big boss, by Perez? That is the key question. And if the players know that, you know, the manager right now, in this moment, has not a thousand percent backing of the president, of the owner, then they start playing games with him and with the manager. And there's so many people that have access to the owner, to, you know, these people that run the club, you know, that in that moment, you as a manager, you know, you're just the last piece at the end of the chain.
40:44and that makes it almost impossible then to go into the face of big, big name players and tell them what to do and tell them to run back and tell them to high pressure and tell them to give their best in every training session. Because you have the feeling that, OK, but my bosses, they don't really back me. And this is maybe the situation there that they have to figure out.
41:06Craig Burley:Jürgen, good man. Thank you very much. Of course, so many of these subplots going in to our Clasico this weekend. Of course, a game you can see live on ESPN and ESPN. Plus, our coverage starts at 2.30 Eastern. If you're on the West Coast, don't miss the El Clasico fan experience. An unforgettable El Clasico watch party and live concert by Esteban Armado. Featuring appearances by La Liga legends Carlos Puyol and Edin Hazard. That's May the 10th at the Torch. Just click on the old QR code.
41:36Steve Nicol:Oh, oh, oh, O 'Reilly.
41:39Gab Marcotti:Check engine, ABS, or maintenance light on? Take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O 'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians. And if you need help, we could recommend to shop for you. Ask for O 'Reilly Veriscan today. O, O, O, O 'Reilly.
42:03Steve Nicol:Auto Parts.
42:09Steve Nicol:As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRANGER Click granger.com Or just stop by
42:41Craig Burley:Conrad Lima has been speaking after the game Now this of course This was a controversial incident That we saw in the first half with Mendes And whether or not it was a handball And then a second yellow card He said I thought I played the ball with my stomach And then Mendes with his hand The referee whistled for handball against me Five seconds later That's really strange The reporter says The handball on you was called by the fourth official Well, since when does the fourth official intervene in the game? I've never experienced that before, but that's not my business. I can't change it now anyway.
43:11Craig Burley:That would have been a decisive moment if PSG had lost a player so early.
43:18Steve Nicol:I think we're dragging the backside out of this now, aren't we? I mean, I think they do. And obviously, they never used to be mic'd up. But the fourth official does try and give, as is his jaw, the referee.
43:35Craig Burley:Just like a jumps there, obviously, it doesn't hit his hand, does it?
43:38Steve Nicol:The fourth official tries to give a bit of help.
43:41Craig Burley:There we go. It's whatever. The fourth official makes me think of the World Cup final when a certain Zinedine needs a hand, Frank. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I don't know what to think about that, you know. Really, I don't see Leimer touching the ball with his hand. I mean, I tried and I tried to be fair and to be neutral, but really, I don't see. And the referee doesn't seem to wait for the force official. He knows exactly what he does and he's very fast on his decision. So I don't know what to think about it. And yeah, and also Mendes' handball is, I don't know, he's maybe just under his shoulder.
44:20So does he mean it's a handball? because I thought it was the short sleeve limit for handball. So I'm not sure it's a handball as well. So I don't know. As Leimer said, we cannot change anything.
44:33Steve Nicol:We should be next to tomorrow's show. Was there a quote from Conrad Leimer where he says, what happened was in the first two minutes of the game, I got caught squeezing into the middle of the patch that the ball got played in behind. That doesn't count. where I was supposed to be. Left-race car friend, the reporter. Dembele scored. That's it.
44:55Craig Burley:That brings us to the end of today's show. We now know the line-up for the Champions League final. A lot more talk about that final on Extra Time, which is coming up now.
45:09Craig Burley:Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Thank you very much for all your questions. Right, did we get to the bottom
45:14Steve Nicol:of where all the noises were coming during that show?
45:16Craig Burley:It's got to be Jürgen. We think it was Jürgen.
45:18Steve Nicol:Got to be. his house maybe yeah yeah it sounds like those animal noises it's a little bit a budgie at one point there we go what does a budgie say what does a budgie say
45:28Gab Marcotti:i don't know uh what do you think i heard a budgie chirping stevie no i didn't i heard the door open you know the old movie you know the scary movies yeah yeah yes that's what i heard uh what did you
45:40Craig Burley:think of the officiating today uh bion of course not happy with some of those decisions frank Well, after all, you know, I think they've done the job. I think the referee did well, and I have nothing to complain about any decision. But it's an accumulation of tough decisions to make, and it all went against the German team. That's why at certain point, you say, was he right every time? I think he was, but I'm sure there will be a matter of discussion for the Bayern fans for sure. Stevie, as a defender, who do you think it's easier to defend in a one-on-one right now? Cavetschelier or Doku?
46:28Craig Burley:I would say Cavetschelier. Right.
46:33Gab Marcotti:Doku has got a couple of moves. When he goes to the right, he does the whole thing with his right. Wait, wait, wait. The question was who's easier to defend? Oh, who's easier? Yes. I would say Doku. OK. Yeah, if you would... If you gave me the choice and said, right, I'll tell you what. What do you think the first question was? You can play against either him or him. I'd rather play against Doku. Doku. If I was Scali. Frank, you as well.
46:55Steve Nicol:I thought I was surprised that you... You almost misunderstood. Because you can't work Cavett Scali out because he's all... No, but I was surprised at your answer the first time. Obviously, you misunderstood the question. Oh, right. Because when you said Doku, I was like...
47:07Gab Marcotti:Aye, no, I misunderstood. It's not the first time I misunderstood a question.
47:11Craig Burley:Frank, Cavett Scali are for you. Yes, too. I mean, the legs, the guy has very strong legs and as Craig was mentioning during the show, when he drops his shoulder, I mean, you don't know where he's going to go. He's very skillful. Doku is more using his pace, let's say, than anything else. Karl Schwarzschkeliar doesn't need to be fast. He has all the skill to put you on your bottom and without knowing how to deal with it. I think you have to call for help. You need to be true to deal with him. And so you have to call for a midfielder to help you out. It's a bit of a random one, isn't it, really?
47:56Steve Nicol:Well, Doku, he's been all right. but I thought the question would have been Kabat-Skelia or Alisi. And what would your answer be to that? That wasn't the question. OK.
48:06Craig Burley:It's Chuck Doku in there, isn't it? Should Liverpool sign Kabat-Skelia? It seems like it could do with an upgrade over here. This was, of course, the conversation we had a couple of days ago.
48:17Steve Nicol:Now, listen, I'm not going to backtrack on that, in case you're asking.
48:21Craig Burley:I didn't ask you to.
48:22Steve Nicol:I was just a recap. But he won't be attracted. He won't be attracted to Liverpool. I know, I know. And I'm not going to go over this. At no point did I suggest Liverpool are going to get Kabat-Skeller. Well. Last year, PSG. But they can get Dwey.
48:39Craig Burley:Oh. Maybe they can get Dwey. Okay. Or Kola. You know, the competition, the competition, Liverpool, maybe. The competition, you know, Barcola, Dwey. In Paris, some players would be fed up to be on the bench because they have so many fantastic players. So maybe Douay or Bacola could be seduced by the Liverpool challenge.
48:59Gab Marcotti:Take Douay. Take Douay. That's not a revelation. Sorry.
49:07Craig Burley:Last year, PSG finished 15th in the group stage and they beat the number one, number three, number four and eight seeds. This year, they were 11th and beat the number two, number three and six on their way to the final against number one. is doing good enough early on and waiting to gain steam the way to win this new Champions League format.
49:27Steve Nicol:This is definitely a question from the armchair, isn't it?
49:30Craig Burley:Surely the contrary argument to that is that Arsenal have had such an easy run in comparison to others because they finished in first place, because they were 100%, and therefore they were rewarded by a better draw. So therefore maybe it isn't doing good enough. It's just doing well.
49:50Gab Marcotti:It's just making it more difficult for yourself. Yeah, there's easy ways to do it. Yeah, but you can bet your bottom dollar PSG want to be first to get themselves an easier run. Yes. But it doesn't work that way. Well, it does. That's the whole point. No, you want that, but sometimes what you want you can't get. And clearly PSG, the last two years, haven't been able to do it the other way around.
50:18Craig Burley:Obviously PSG will be favourites in the Champions League final, but what would Arsenal need to do to win it, Frank? Not consider goals early in the game, be strong at the back, because they will have to set tight and there are no other choices. And of course, what is their skill? Make sure they score in set pieces, otherwise they won't have too many chances. What are the odds of seeing a repeat of last year's PSG Inter-style defeat? Is it 5-0? 5. No. No? No.
50:49Gab Marcotti:The Arsenal's not losing 5 goals. No. No. No chance? No chance.
50:53Steve Nicol:I wouldn't think so.
50:54Gab Marcotti:No.
50:59Now, Frank? I don't get B5. Again, if they concede a goal very early, they will try to get out and they can be punished in counter-attack by Paris Saint-Germain talent. So, and if they carry on like that, you never know. At what point they're going to say, OK, we stop, we don't want to do like the next season last season and and sit tight and lose like two or three nil. But I don't think it's I think they're more experienced than Inter Milan and they have a better player than Inter Milan last season.
51:31Craig Burley:And a final question. We're continuing the wedding theme. Obviously, we're invited to a wedding on Monday and we decided who would be a great guest. Frank, we thought you'd be a great guest at a wedding. Craig, not so much.
51:40Steve Nicol:Well, you know, I do feel that in my absence from that show, I was...
51:45Craig Burley:Didn't the last wedding you go to, you shouted at the groom for crying?
51:51Steve Nicol:No, that was... No. Father, wasn't it? No, I did... Yes. No, I didn't shout at the groom for crying. He did cry, at which point his father was a little mortified because he's not... But the big lad, the big lad, the big lad, the big soppy lad, very emotional boy. But anyway, after he'd cried umpteen times, I had a bet with him that when he made his speech, he'd start sobbing again. And he bet me$100. And he got up to make his speech, and he started sobbing like a big baby again.
52:24Craig Burley:Yeah, so that's why maybe he wouldn't be the best guest. However, this person disagrees, saying, I don't know about you guys, but Craig Burley would be at the top of my wedding invite list. Any good stories from the boys about former teammates' weddings?
52:38Steve Nicol:Oh, yeah. Wow. So Simon Donnelly. Wow, wow, good. Simon Donnelly. What could possibly go wrong with these answers? Simon Donnelly. Look at you. No, I've got one I can tell you. Simon Donnelly and Malky Mackay, my two colleagues at Celtic. Right. They were big buddies. All the boys were buddies. But Simon got married on the Friday, or the Saturday, I think it was a Friday, and Malky got married on the Saturday. What a weekend that was. So we were all at both. Wow. Right? and Malky's wife, she kind of knew what the lads were like and she went round a bunch of us with the wedding dress on before we even got in the church and we all got a major warning about our behaviour and the preceding test.
53:26Craig Burley:And how was said behaviour?
53:29Steve Nicol:It gradually went downhill as the evening went on where the boys were doing handstands and everything on the dance floor. In kilt. I didn't have a kilt on. Stevie.
53:41Gab Marcotti:Bruce Grobel has a wedding. Right. We had the old boss that used to take us to and from games. So we hired it for everybody. So all the boys and the wives got on it. Drove down to, down by Bristol in the UK. Went to the wedding, had a great day. And on the way back we stopped at a service station for something to eat. Just to grab some stuff. So we all piled in and then as we've all got the food, the drivers went look we need to get back. So everybody got all the stuff, all the food, got on the bus and we got home. Monday morning they pulled us in, the manager, and said the police have been at Anfield this morning.
54:27Gab Marcotti:Apparently All the plates, cups Cutlery, the whole lot Had been stolen from a service station By the boss So we had to have a whip round and pay for all the stuff
54:40Steve Nicol:I had a guy in there I had a friend By the way, you'd love this Because that Simon and Malky's wedding A couple of months before We went on a stag One week in Portugal A week Such a long time. A week. Honestly, I never, I was barely alive when I got back from it. But I was in a pub once in Nottingham. It wasn't a footballer, but a guy that used to drink with us and we knew. And he went to me, hey Craig, see that couple over there? That is John and Irene or whoever. Okay. He said, they haven't talked to me for 20 years. And I went, why? He went, well, I got a bit drunk at their daughter's wedding.
55:21Steve Nicol:he said and before they made the speeches I was running up to congratulate them at the top table and I tripped up and I fell into the wedding cake. Wow. He said I was going up and I went congratulations. He said he fell on the step and he went down and he says the whole wedding cake all the tears went down. This was your friend yeah and he said the bride and groom please come up now and cut the sponge. Jam sponge. Frank? No, I've never been invited by any teammates waiting. They don't want me to steal their thunder. Maybe that's why.
56:02Craig Burley:Good stuff. Thank you very much. ESPN FC returns to your screen tomorrow. Be sure to join us where our focus, of course, will turn to the Europa League.
56:27Gab Marcotti:For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves. Loved ones, neighbours, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at Thrivent.com.
From the publisher
The FC crew react to PSG advancing to the UCL Final after defeating Bayern Munich on aggregate. The guys praise Luis Enrique's side for their desire to attack and question if Arsenal stands a chance against the defending champions in the final. Plus, the guys break down the numerous incidents at Real Madrid and explain how the distractions will affect the team ahead of El Clasico this weekend.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
