Real Madrid Slip Up

15:14Shaka Hislop:Now, they're not the most talented team in La Liga, but they've got a handful of very good players, and they're extremely well-organised. And I think right now, at least, they're in a position of real optimism, but in terms of looking ahead to what awaits for them for the rest of this season.

15:27Dan Thomas:Yeah, to Sid's point, they were just as close to the relegation spots as they were to Europe going into this game. Now they're just that little bit closer to Europe for Osasuna, so congratulations to them. Now it's over to Barcelona to play their game against Levante tomorrow. When you look at their recent results, in the month of February, we've seen two losses for them. We've seen that loss against Girona. We've seen the loss to Atletico in the Copa semi-final first leg. We also saw that loss to Real Sociedad before this, which has allowed Real Madrid back in. However, it has been put back in Barcelona's hands.

15:59Dan Thomas:And ahead of it, Hansi Flick was asked if his players understood what was happening to the team and how to fix it.

16:07Alejandro Moreno:They're convinced about what we are doing, about our style. But the way we played last season of philosophy, or also this season, from five titles, we win four titles. So it's like that. And I think also the way I spoke with many players, how we want to play, they're convinced about that, 100%.

16:32Dan Thomas:You think they can turn things around here, Luis? You think it is just a bit of a stumble that they're going through? Or are they just proving to be unpredictable right now?

16:42Alejandro Moreno:Yeah, I think that they are a little bit unpredictable, I must say. And it's true that that consists in that Barcelona needs to have to become again the winner of La Liga. It has to be there and it hasn't been. We heard also Danny Olmo mentioning that we are not going to change our idea, our philosophy, because a couple of games said that we didn't get the result. But it's true that it's a massive concern, a high line. The problems that they have when they don't have the ball, the problems that they have when they make mistakes in the middle of the park and the transition became just a threat.

17:10Alejandro Moreno:just because you just lost a ball in the middle. So Barcelona needs to really address the situation. I understand that you cannot change the whole way of playing, the whole idea, but just maybe make some adjustments or even making the adjustments in some of the games. Probably 90 % of the games you can play with the same idea, with the same way of playing and the same vision. But there are games, and it's been proven against Atletico Madrid, last year against Inter Milan, where you go in front of a team that it can make you struggle with that kind of situation. So just try to manage those moments and I'm sure that Barcelona will get back to their best.

17:47Dan Thomas:It's hard to put your faith in any of the top two right now, Real Madrid and Barcelona, as to who's going to go on and win this title, Stevie.

17:53Gab Marcotti:Well, it is because, you know, Real Madrid basically are just not that good a team. You know, as much as they had gotten results up until today. But Barcelona, I mean, it's such a high-risk reward the way they play. That when it goes well, they win 4-0, but when it goes badly, they're losing three and four goals as well. So, I mean, I don't know which way you're trying to push me here, but I can't go anyway, because you can't trust them.

18:21Dan Thomas:It really is hard to go anyway right now, isn't it, Sid? We don't really know what's going to happen this season.

18:29Shaka Hislop:No, I mean, I was watching Barcelona against Girona on Monday night, and, you know, as you know, Kay, because we've been talking about this now for a year and a half. Every time we talk about the high line, I always try and defend the idea of the high line. I say that, look, as Hansi Flick said, they've won four out of five trophies. They're fantastic to watch. They almost won everything last year. They reached a Champions League semi-final. They won the league by some distance. They won the Copa de Re. They won the Super Cup. They've just won the Super Cup again. And you sort of think, well, you know, it's not that bad.

18:59Shaka Hislop:You try and defend it. And of course, you try and see it in its context. And the context is that this high line can work if the pressure is good in midfield, if you break well yourself, if you can recover well at the back, all of these kind of things. And I was watching them on Monday night and thinking, you know, I've really tried to defend this model, but my goodness, you make it hard for me to do so because Monday night was so clear cut and it was so sort of, it felt so simple watching Girona run through them. Now, Hansi Flick is right when he says, if our pressure is better in midfield, we can have that line high if everything works but as Stevie rightly put it the the risk will rule balance is so fine that if you do get it wrong if your timing is a fraction off or you don't put that pressure on or that line is a fraction uh uncoordinated and one player plays people on the side then then of course the the chances you give up it's not just that you give up some chances it's that the chances you give up are one-on-ones and so yeah sometimes you could watch Barcelona think they're a great team who are hugely vulnerable.

19:58Shaka Hislop:And I think Stevie's right to say, then you watch Real Madrid and you think, they're not a particularly good team, but they don't feel quite so vulnerable. So they're not as good, but the results are essentially the same. And that's the bottom line. We're in a position now where the results have basically been the same this season. Whereas if you watch them, you'd say, yeah, one of them plays really good, fun football and the other just kind of doesn't.

20:19Gab Marcotti:You know, people probably listen to us because it's hard not to bring it up about the high line, right? People must go, oh, high line, here we go again. Let me simplify this. If I was to go and sit my European badges and I was to do a defensive clinic and do what Barcelona's back line's doing, I would fail. They wouldn't pass me. Because nobody would say that's a good idea. I wouldn't pass the test. I wouldn't get my licence. So this is why we keep talking about it. It's so against what you do as a defender. If there's pressure on the ball, you can hold the high line. If there's no pressure on the ball, then it's crazy.

21:01Gab Marcotti:You're just completely gambling. And that doesn't make any sense to anybody. So that's what Barcelona are doing. They 100 % are gambling. And they're doing things defensively that nobody, nobody would turn around and back them and say, yeah, that's a good idea.

21:18Dan Thomas:You cannot miss a minute in this title race this season with La Liga and Real Madrid and Barcelona. We never know what we're going to get. What we do know is that Sid Lowe knows people wherever he goes in La Liga, including Osasuna's mascot, Rojillo and Rojilla. Here he is, getting comfortable with him.

21:34Gab Marcotti:He's actually smoozer, isn't he?

21:35Dan Thomas:Sid.

21:40Dan Thomas:Didn't know we filmed that earlier, did you, Sid?

21:44Shaka Hislop:I didn't know. I mean, I should have known. I should have known that you were there ready with the cameras, ready to embarrass me.

21:51Dan Thomas:No, but not to worry. There we go. Just one more time. Just for good measure before we say goodbye.

21:58Shaka Hislop:Do you know what? This isn't even the most embarrassing part of the day, you know, Kay.

22:03Dan Thomas:What was?

22:05Gab Marcotti:Do tell.

22:06Shaka Hislop:Well, I should probably explain this to our viewers. Today's game, Ossesuna against Real Madrid in Pamplona, was at 6.30 Spanish time. Real Oviedo were playing against Real Sociedad in San Sebastián, which is an hour and ten minutes from here. And I thought, well, obviously I've got to go to both games. but because I'm a consummate professional of course, I had to leave the Real Sociedad-Real Oviedo game three minutes early three minutes just to get ahead of the traffic to make absolutely sure I got here I missed two goals

22:41Gab Marcotti:George Law, isn't it?

22:42Dan Thomas:Yep, Sid, we will show that highlight a little later on in the show but you are always a highlight for us and thanks to Luis Garcia as well for always being with us on our coverage of La Liga, Barcelona

23:08Gab Marcotti:Say, do you have to tell the school flashback about something about the school flashback and hope that it's true?

23:14Alejandro Moreno:No, not at all. Why do you have to tell the school flashback?

23:18Gab Marcotti:You mean everything is safe?

23:20Dan Thomas:Yeah, exactly. VisoSteuer is the app that understands you.

23:25Alejandro Moreno:No matter whether it's a job, job or a job.

23:28Gab Marcotti:That's right. It doesn't feel like it's a debt. Steuern completed? Safe. With VisoSteuer.

23:50Dan Thomas:We saw a goal from Dan Byrne that was disallowed just before half-time. In the end, Manchester City take all three points away from this game. With the same amount of games played as it stands right now, Manchester City are just two points behind Arsenal. If you look at those scenes at the end of that game, it's as if they have got the belief and the feeling that they might just be doing it. Don Hutchison joining us now to give us the reaction to what we saw in this game today. that win and those celebrations at the end on from Manchester City.

24:22Alejandro Moreno:Yeah, evening. I think it told a story when you saw Pep celebrating, the players celebrating. It was a twitchy second half one that had to get over the line in a really sort of pulsating game. But I think after the game told us a lot where, if you asked Pep Guardiola the question probably about a month ago, he was very honest and said, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if we can do it because it's a new group. It's a group that's in transition. watching him after the game today and the way they celebrate, it tells me they really feel as though they can do this.

24:53Dan Thomas:Is that what you read from it? Because we were surprised at first when we saw it, weren't we? Something's obviously in their minds celebrating like that. It's obviously a difficult game against Newcastle.

25:03Gab Marcotti:I'm a little hesitant. You know, I would suggest they think they can do it more because of what's going on at Arsenal. You know, let's be honest, Manchester City are still vulnerable, and they were vulnerable at times today. It was an open game. You know, when you're trying to win the title, you don't just go, you know what, we're just going to go for it all the time and if we leave some holes then that's fine. That's not the City of Old. The City of Old dominated, put you under pressure and then when they've got the opportunities, they strangled you. That's not what the City team does. But, as I said, what happened at the end of the game, I think they realised that they have a big, big chance.

25:42Gab Marcotti:And as I said, Pep for me, he understands that things are not quite going particularly great over at Arsenal. And I think that more than anything else is why he thinks they really have a good chance.

25:53Dan Thomas:So what do Arsenal players think to see those scenes, Don? Or can Mikel Arteta use this to his advantage to say, look, they think that they're going to do this here. You cannot let them in.

26:03Alejandro Moreno:No, you can't think like that. I think if you're Arteta, he wouldn't look at that tonight and think we can take anything from that apart from City are hot on our tails. I think that the glaring obvious, watching the attitude and the way the two managers have handled themselves, it's not a criticism. I just think Arteta tries to micromanage every single second and you're seeing a lot of the Arsenal players starting to struggle because they're feeling the heat. I think to Stevie's point, I think when you're looking and analysing the two managers and what they're doing to their teams, City feel as though they can win this.

26:41Alejandro Moreno:So they're playing and they have to. City are not a team where they can go clean sheets from now at the end of the season. So they have to open up. They have to feel as though the firepower that they've got is to outscore the opposition. That's their best way of winning a title. That was never the case in Stevie's day in the 90s, noughties, whenever. It was clean sheets that done it. But Arsenal just look so twitchy. The fans are twitchy. The manager's anxious in his technical area. He's putting stress on the players because he's so sort of restricted and he's so desperate to get over the line.

27:10Alejandro Moreno:Guardiola's teams are thinking, right, let's score goals. Not so much entertain because they know at the same time they're a work in progress. And they know potentially they can't go clean sheets all the way to the end. So they've got to score goals. They have to outscore teams and that's going to be their attitude from now to the end of the season.

27:28Dan Thomas:That was Nico O 'Reilly's first Premier League brace today. He got man of the match afterwards. A word on him, if you can, Stevie.

27:33Gab Marcotti:Well, I think we're seeing a different player because he's playing in his natural position. You know, I think Peb probably initially got him in at left back because it was an opportunity to get him on the field. But now the fact that Norey is fit, he can actually push him further forward. And we see the talent he's got. I mean, that left peg, it's just the talent he's got in his left peg. It's what's going on between his ears because for such a young man, he's turning up in incredible positions. and the composure on the ball in the final third is, well, for somebody his age is just incredible.

28:09Gab Marcotti:So, yeah, I mean, this kid is, this guy's only starting his career. He's still learning the game. And if you can do the things he did today and has been doing and you're still learning, my goodness, what's the final product going to be like? So, yeah, get that man in his right position, which he is now. Keep him there and you'll see the best of Nico Riley.

28:28Dan Thomas:Do you want to add anything to that, Don?

28:30Alejandro Moreno:he's a player I think he's got all the attributes I first seen him down I think at Orient in a cup game and he stood out a mile he's got a physical presence where Guardiola loves a player that's versatile so Nico O 'Reilly can play obviously at left back he can probably play left side at centre back if needed because of his height because of his quality he's a midfield player by trade so to Stevie's point he can step into midfield he can handle the ball good energy and he's shown today two completely different finishes what a career he's going to have

28:58Dan Thomas:alright so That's Nico O 'Reilly but there was a moment that got you a little bit riled up Stevie in the 42nd minute Dan Burns disallowed goal and the push Yeah, and he was offside.

29:10Gab Marcotti:Yeah Can't be right You can't take it number one. It's probably a foul I mean Dan Barn is what? 15 stone and six foot four So it's going to take it's going to take some physical force to move him and Diaz puts two hands totally shoves him offside it's either a foul or you just let it, it's a goal I mean the laws of the game say that you can't physically move somebody with your body to your advantage, certainly in the penalty box anywhere else on the field, that's a foul all day long.

29:46Dan Thomas:How did you see it Don?

29:49Alejandro Moreno:I mean I agree with Stevie I think but the letter of the law where the referee I think is very unlucky today I think the push happened before Tenali put the free kick in So it's like, it's so fine. If the ball was already on its way in and in the air and then it gets pushed into the box, into an offside position, you go, well, that can't be right. Surely that has to be a goal being given. But when you see it again, he gets pushed a fraction before Tonali puts that in. So I reckon for the officials, that must be an absolute nightmare.

30:20Gab Marcotti:One of my biggest problems, Don, is that the official answer does not mention anything at all to do with whether the ball was in or out of play. And if I'm a VAR, or I'm in the PJMOL, whatever the letters are, that's the first thing I'm going to. It's dead easy. If that is the rules, if that's the law, then I'm just going to say the ball wasn't in play. Disallowed. But they don't say that.

30:46Alejandro Moreno:If you'd done that, Steve, you'd have to point the same logic is when corners are coming in. So when you see fouls being committed in the box before a corner's being taken, it's almost like it's irrelevant because the ball's not in play. Isn't it? It's a strange one.

31:03Gab Marcotti:That's not my point, Don. My point is they didn't say it was disallowed for offside because when he was pushed, the ball wasn't in play. That would have been the easy out for them. But they didn't say that. They gave us some other nonsense.

31:17Dan Thomas:Yeah, we heard why the AR upheld the decision. they saw the contact as marginal or normal contact and they didn't deem the shove a clear and obvious foul.

31:25Gab Marcotti:Six foot four, 15 stone, that's a marginal push.

31:27Alejandro Moreno:I mean, Stevie, remember our discussion the other day with Dan about VAR? If only we had VAR!

31:33Gab Marcotti:Exactly.

31:35Dan Thomas:There we are, there'll be plenty more of them, but obviously the talk now will turn to Arsenal with Manchester City winning this game and it is the North London derby, Igor Tudor, taking over at Spurs and thrown right into the frying pan with this game against Arsenal. Let's hear from both managers speaking ahead of the game. We will hear from Igor Tudor first and then Nikola Teta.

31:59Alejandro Moreno:Are you familiar with the term Spurs? Has anyone taught you about the term Spurs? Spurs-y. Tell me. I expect that you will explain, you know.

32:12Shaka Hislop:You have a little inkling. It means that from a real position of strength they might be winning a game and suddenly they can try to lose the game. It means it talks to a kind of a mental weakness. You've never heard of that?

32:26Alejandro Moreno:No, no, no.

32:29Shaka Hislop:Are you confident that that won't be a phrase used amongst your sport, amongst your players?

32:37Dan Thomas:It's not about that, what I said before. It's not about names, it's about other things in football, in life. It's not the name, how you call it, it's important, nice, traditional, but it's not about that. It's about here and here, it's always about that. Lesting legs, especially football players, but it's not about legs. It's always about head, brain, heart. It's all about that.

33:02Shaka Hislop:For you, what would constitute a team being bottlers? Sorry?

33:06Gab Marcotti:For you, what would constitute a team in general being bottlers? It's not part of my vocabulary and I don't see it like this because I don't think anybody wants to do that as an intention. But I wouldn't use that word, but that's me.

33:20Dan Thomas:All the words being put to the boys, Spursy, Bottlers, they're hearing it all in these pre-match press conferences, aren't they?

33:26Gab Marcotti:That's a naughty question.

33:27Dan Thomas:It's a little bit naughty, isn't it? Where do you want to pick up with this one, Don? What are your expectations for the Northland and Derby tomorrow?

33:34Alejandro Moreno:I mean, I'm looking forward to the game, but I mean, the two managers there just being thrown some very, very awkward questions, loaded questions that you can't really win. So Igor Tudor just battered it off. And I think Arteta done the same thing. There were very loaded questions. I think the big question is going to be is what Arsenal turn up because the last three or four games, especially the Wolves game, where, I mean, I commentated on the FA Cup game when they played Wigan and they beat them four. The game was over in about sort of 10, 15, 20 minutes. max and Arteta was still sort of in his technical area looking anxious and like passing information on I remember saying in commentary like just sit back enjoy your team's performance you're going to win the game you're going to go through in the FA Cup let the boys play Eza had a great game let him play let him express himself if Arsenal can't win against Wigan at 4-0 up and they need you in the technical area then they've got a problem so if he goes into that technical area and he's anxious and he's twitchy and he's, you know, the players pick up on that and they start, you know, not playing to their strengths by playing good football and attractive football.

34:40Alejandro Moreno:They might end up drawing that game. And that's probably the way I see it, unless I watch a different Arsenal tomorrow.

34:47Dan Thomas:Stevie, I just want to go back to you, as obviously you've got a history as a football manager. Questions like that, loaded questions like that coming to the coaches. How do you deal with those?

34:58Gab Marcotti:We don't answer them. You just ignore it.

35:01Dan Thomas:So you wouldn't have said the word bottler isn't in my vocabulary?

35:05Gab Marcotti:No, I was just taking it somewhere else. You know, I'll say it again, I've said this a lot on this show. When you're being interviewed, the only thing you have to remember is that anything you tell them is what you want them to know, not what they want to know. You go in with that frame of mind, you can take any question. you just go somewhere else and if they ask you again you go somewhere else and then eventually go he's not going to answer that and then they'll leave you alone

35:39Dan Thomas:You know who's not been leaving Don alone? Arsenal fans on the social media sites Are they? Are they on me? Apparently you've been getting into it on the socials with the Arsenal fans Arsenal time wasting time to restart games from corners here we're seeing 117 minutes average delay of restart from corners 44 seconds which is the most in the Premier League in terms of time-wasting. What do you make of these stats?

36:09Alejandro Moreno:I mean, I got asked a question, Kay, on social media the other day, and it was off the back of Opta, I think, putting these stats up, and some guy sort of accused me as lying or your Liverpool bias, and I'm like, well, no, these are Opta stats. So my perception of the game, and I'd be biased, I've played for like six million clubs. So I commentate on the football games and I can only see and commentate on what I see. And I see Arsenal and they're not the only ones, by the way, Newcastle were guilty. I think last year, the year before of taking their time, but Arsenal this season just seemed to be taking loads of time when they're setting free kicks up or setting corners up.

36:47Alejandro Moreno:Trossard was a strange one, which I didn't like the other day because he went down after he got pushed in the chest and he went down holding his head. So he used the concussion sub, which I think goes down a very, very awkward road because the concussion rule was brought in to be very genuine, trying to look after the player's interests. To try and use that to try and get another sub onto the pitch when you got pushed in the chest didn't sit well with me. So I'm only just using those opto stats as exactly what I've saw in games.

37:16Dan Thomas:When it comes to time waster, are you a fair game with what you see? Of course, who cares?

37:22Gab Marcotti:If I snogging it away with it, good on them. There's loads of ways to win a title. You can bludgeon people with goals, or you can keep clean sheets, or you can kick lumps out of them, or you can score from set pieces. Or guess what, when you're ahead, you can waste a bit of time. Absolutely. Listen, if Arsenal can get away with it, then... go on, keep going, keep doing it. Unfortunately for them, though, Opta's not done them any favours, because as impartial as referees are, there's no question it'll be in their head. because somebody's going to tell them and they're only human. And so there's going to be some stage where either they're going to give a corner away because the goalie's taking too much time or some other thing will happen.

38:09Gab Marcotti:A yellow card maybe for wasting time. So up until now, Arsenal good on you for getting away with it. You've got to do what you've got to do to win the title and win games.

38:19Alejandro Moreno:Yeah, that's what happened in the Wolves game. I think because they'd wasted so much time, had come to bite them in the backside because Wolves scored a lay equaliser.

38:27Gab Marcotti:Well, and see, that's the other argument, right? I don't go along with that argument. They didn't lose it because they were wasting time and the time was added on. They lost it because the goalkeeper and centre-back made basic errors. So it had nothing to do with the time. It really was to do with what they do on the football field.

38:47Dan Thomas:With all that being said, what's your prediction for tomorrow?

38:49Gab Marcotti:Oh, I can't see any other than Arsenal victory. Listen, the new manager bounce, all of that stuff, will probably have some effect at the start of the game. But then the basics of the game that I was just talking about there, you have to get them right. In Spurs, so far this season, on very few occasions, they've got the basics right. So there's no reason to think all of a sudden, because there's a new manager through the door, all the basics are going to all of a sudden be right and they're going to produce a performance. I just don't see it. There's no reason to believe that.

39:24Dan Thomas:No new manager bounce for you, Don?

39:26Alejandro Moreno:I disagree with Stevie. I think it'll be a score draw. I think you'll see manager bounce. I think you'll see a brilliant atmosphere, which should drive the Spurs players on and should make them run extra hard. I know their home form is not amazing. If this was a way, I'd say, guaranteed Arsenal win, but as is it Spurs, surely that hostile atmosphere must count against something. And I think they'll nick a draw, Spurs.

39:48Dan Thomas:OK, well, we will find out. We will be with you tomorrow to talk more about it. Chelsea took on Burnley at Stamford Bridge and failed to build on an early goal from João Pedro, which came in the fifth minute. We also saw Wesley Fofana sent off in this one, which was Chelsea reduced to 10 men once again this season. And in the 93rd minute, Zian Fleming was a big moment here. He headed home. James Ward-Prowse's 93rd minute corner. that made it 1-1 and Chelsea blow another lead at Stamford Bridge. I suppose we've got to start there really, don't we Don? The fact that they're not closing these games out and they're dropping points at home.

40:29Alejandro Moreno:Yeah, I think I saw a ridiculous stat today that they've had more red cards than home wins this season which is absolutely nuts. It's crazy. I mean, when you look at that Fleming goal again I mean, you don't have to keep looking across to your coach and your manager to see or ask what to do. if you're de la, get on the goal line. You know, get on the line and try to help your team. You don't have to just listen to your manager, your coach all the time. And, you know, it's not a manual, this game of football. Sometimes you've got to think on your feet. Sometimes you've got to think for yourself.

40:56Alejandro Moreno:But it definitely is a problem how many points they seem to be dropping. They're definitely a problem. We criticised Arsenal when they had so many red cars that cost them the title. It's just definitely a Chelsea problem that has to be fixed.

41:07Gab Marcotti:They should have lost this game. Bryn Larson with the last touch of the ball. from a corner, exact same position, pretty much the exact same situation, heads it over the crossbar. Chelsea should have got nothing from this game. Now, they should have won this game comfortably because up until the red card, Burnley hadn't even seen the goal. Never mind score a goal. And so Fofana has taken a ton because you go around this Chelsea team, they all take tons of getting sent off. And he's done it today. and absolutely it's cost them two.

41:42Dan Thomas:We could say Chelsea should have lost, but they also should have won comfortably at home against Burnley, shouldn't they?

41:48Gab Marcotti:Well, they should, yeah. And for 75 minutes, that was the script. But as we've seen previously, defensively, no question, you can't trust the Chelsea players. And I'm not entirely sure it's completely down to them. You know, every time I watch Chelsea, there's a different back four. Different full-backs, different centre-back pairings. So, yeah, I mean, all of those, the majority of those losses, are those points dropped, I absolutely think you can point the finger mostly at Chelsea and not the opposition generally. Chelsea are absolutely shooting themselves in the foot.

42:28Dan Thomas:Yeah, because you can look for a defensive identity, Don, but you're leaving yourself vulnerable when you're getting players sent off in games like this and you're a man down.

42:35Alejandro Moreno:Do you know what, Kate? Do you know what, Kate? If I was a gambling man, I'd be absolutely skint. Because if I was a gambling man, I would have took all my money to Vegas before the game and lumped on a Chelsea home win. You just thought it was an absolute banker. But the amount of red cards is killing them. You can't in the Premier League go down to 10 men because you leave the game into a fight game. Then you lead it into a duels game. And it's only one. To Stevie's point, they should have put them away in the first half. But then it's only one. and then it's 11 v 10 and Burnley are trying and they're scrapping for their lives and they're trying to score from set plays.

43:09Alejandro Moreno:And Stevie's right, you know, Fleming had the goal towards the end of the game, but then at the end of the game, they missed one where it just went over the crossbar. So I think, to be fair, I think Liam Rossini talked about that problem after the game. He said it wasn't huge in terms of dropping points, but it's something that they've got to fix.

43:27Dan Thomas:Yeah, absolutely. And just to reiterate, as you saw from that full screen, and it's 17 points dropped from winning positions at home this season. They're closing in on their worst record of 20 points, which goes all the way back to the 95-96 season. So how do you find a defensive identity, Stevie, if that's what they need to fix as well here?

43:46Gab Marcotti:I think there's a simple answer here. We're getting to the stage now where you have to stop thinking about who's had so many minutes and who can do this and who can do that. You've got to go and win games now. You have to win games now. And so you've looked after the whole team. It seems like Chelsea, of all the teams in the Premier League, it seems to me that if there was one side that has looked after every player in every sort of position other than goalkeeper, it's been Chelsea. And so why are you doing that? Surely you're doing that so that come the most important part of the season, which is the last three months, you're ready to go and win games, game after game.

44:28Gab Marcotti:And particularly from a defensive point of view, You get a back line and then you keep it and play it and play it and train with it during the week, work together during the week and then you get a solid unit. And everybody understands what everybody's trying to do, what they're doing. Everybody understands the little foibles that we all have. But when you keep changing it, changing it, changing it, you're never going to get any sort of consistency. And so on days like today, when you've had so much of the ball but really haven't used it well enough and the final third, if you have that solid line, you win 1-0.

45:05Gab Marcotti:Nothing wrong with winning 1-0. It's great to win 3-4, but it's not wrong with winning 1-0. But if you've got a back line that is unsure, then you see, this is a great example of what can happen.

45:18Dan Thomas:Elsewhere in the Premier League today, we got to see Aston Villa taking on Leeds. Let's take a look back at how that game played out. 31st minutes where we pick it off. This is going to be a great free kick from Anton Stach.

45:32Gab Marcotti:Well, he catches Emi Martinez, cheating a little bit. And he's just cheated probably half a yard too much. Look where he is, look at his position. And then he can't quite get across quick enough to make the save. And the ball's tailoring away from him. And it's a great strike from Stach.

45:52Dan Thomas:It looked like Villa were on course for what would have been a damaging home defeat. but Tammy Abraham salvages them a point in the 88th minute.

46:01Gab Marcotti:Well, he thighs at home. He's just redirected a header back across goal. Right here. I mean, good play from him. Calvert-Lewin just can't quite get there. And Ville get a point.

46:17Dan Thomas:And so too do Leeds United. They find themselves in 15th. One point is a step closer to safety for them. that's how things are looking at the bottom end of the table for Leeds United as for Aston Villa unable to pull away from Chelsea Upcoming Premier League schedule this weekend looks like this it's Forest against Liverpool tomorrow Crystal Palace will be hosting Wolves Sunderland Fulham and Spurs against Arsenal of course in the North London derby and then on Monday it is Everton taking on Manchester United

46:56Dan Thomas:Bayern Munich sits eight points ahead of Borussia Dortmund in second in the Bundesliga table. Bayern had a 3-2 win over Frankfurt on Saturday. Bayern had 3-0 lead at one point in this game. Frankfurt battled back but it wasn't enough. Bayern kept all three points from this game. Leipzig hosted Borussia Dortmund and took a 2-0 lead in the first half. However, Dortmund battled back in the second but it was only battling back to take away a point from this game. After the game at the Allianz Arena between Bayern and Frankfurt, we did get to hear from Anna Saralanga and Patrick Ovomayela. Bayern is winning 3-2 against Eintracht Frankfurt.

47:35Dan Thomas:And Patrick, we have seen a dominant first half of the team of Vincent's company. The second half, it was a bit more open and the result got surprisingly tight in the end.

47:46Alejandro Moreno:How do you sum it up? Yeah, you're absolutely right. It was a game of two halves. the first half Bayern did all the things right that they could do and in the second half kind of lifted a little bit that that foot off the gas pedal especially after that third goal we we listened to Vincent Kompanyou who said exactly that that after the third goal he wasn't really happy with how the team was was still performing maybe a little less focus maybe a little less energy and Frankfurt felt that and on the same time Frankfurt in that second half a little bit more confident. They instantly felt that something is possible, created some some opportunities with the help of Bayern and at least after that penalty really believed that something is possible and went for it.

48:30Dan Thomas:And you mentioned one of some companies said but also Jamal Mouzialla, we talked to him, he said they lost the focus, they lost a bit the energy but this shouldn't happen before the Klassiker, right?

48:41Alejandro Moreno:No and usually Bayern is a team that doesn't do it all too often. Usually it's a team that always go for the next goal for the deal saver, the deal closer. But they had a couple of games in the Bundesliga as well, where they let the opponent back in, talking about their game against Hamburg, talking against their loss against Augsburg. And this is something that happens, it's usual, it's all human beings. But Bayern is a team that can't do better, have to do better, especially with the next game coming up against Borussia Dortmund, their Klassiker.

49:13Dan Thomas:And talking about Frankfurt, it was the third game with the new coach Albert Riera. We just talked to him. He knew his team was suffering the first half, but in the second half he said, we had more self-confidence because I told them we have nothing to lose. So some words at half-time can change everything.

49:30Alejandro Moreno:They can change a lot. He mentioned that it wasn't really a tactical thing. He didn't really change a lot. He swapped on some players later on. But before that you could feel something is different. And it's maybe that nothing to lose mentality that helps you then going only forward from where you are in the moment. And you have to believe in yourself, especially against a team like Bayern Munich, where you have to suffer. But the only way to get out of that is to believe that it's possible.

49:55Dan Thomas:And he said he doesn't like to talk about individual players, but we can do that. So let's talk about Johnny Borkert. He has his comeback. He took the responsibility of converting this penalty. And I think you could fear that something was changing within the team as well. So what can be his impact during the next week?

50:14Alejandro Moreno:He will be important. Every player will be important. But Johnny Borchardt up front is another and a big option who can play multiple roles. And that will help Frankfurt going in the right direction. But also, of course, when some defensive players will be back.

50:28Dan Thomas:Thank you, Patrick. So that's it from us here from the Allianz Arena.

50:35Dan Thomas:Anyway, that's all we've got time for on the latest edition of ESPN FC. Thank you so much for joining us. Stick around, Don and Stevie are doing just that to answer your questions on Extra Time.

50:54Dan Thomas:Welcome into the latest edition of Extra Time. The good news is I've got the questions in front of me here in my email. They've not been printed out for us, but we'll let the team off. Apparently, producers printing it out right now. But don't worry, we can get underway. Don and Stevie are here to answer your questions. We'll get underway with the first of them. Do the boys agree with James Oli that the Giocheres experiment at Arsenal is at an end? Don?

51:18Alejandro Moreno:That's very harsh. I think you're looking at a league this year where a lot of teams are struggling. A lot of centre-forwards seem to be struggling, playing up against low blocks. to try and judge him after three quarters of the way through the season seems very premature to me

51:37Gab Marcotti:james being a bit harsh there stevie it seems a bit harsh but there might be something in it at the end of the day the guy's brought in to be the number nine and be the difference maker and you can't say he's been the difference maker and he's actually in the same position that two other maybe even three other strikers are in the same in the same spot who were actually at the club when he was bought so i don't think i don't think you can turn around and say it's been a huge success probably is a bit harsh though to say the experiment's over all right four wins

52:13Dan Thomas:in five for manchester city stevie is this the start of their usual come from behind title charge It looked like they might thought it was today. Well, the way they were

52:24Gab Marcotti:celebrating after the game then, it looks like that's what you do after a cup final, isn't it? I'm not convinced that Man City will do what they've done in previous years when they were at their best. I still think they are vulnerable defensively.

52:45Gab Marcotti:And at the end of the day, as much as you could argue that it's in their own hands, because if they win every game, they win the title, because that means they'll beat Arsenal. At the same time, I'm still sticking with the team at the top of the table.

52:59Dan Thomas:OK. They did feel pretty emphatic today, didn't they, Don? Those celebrations, as if they've got something in their minds.

53:06Alejandro Moreno:Yeah, I think there's definitely something in that, but I think more importantly, I think when you look at the immediate future, Man City have got games on paper where they should win. Arsenal have got very tricky ones. North London derby tomorrow, then Chelsea, then Brighton. And then I read something today and seen something today that after a North London derby, I think there's about a month where Man City play before Arsenal. So they're going to be piling on the pressure before Arsenal have to play their game. So that's going to add a little bit.

53:35Dan Thomas:If they win those games, that's how you pile on the pressure, isn't it? All right. Don, percentage chance Kane gets overlooked for the Ballon d 'Or even if he scores 50 goals.

53:46Alejandro Moreno:100. 100%. 100%. I mean, he's just been one of the best strikers in world football for, I mean, what, five, six, seven years? But, I mean, he's got some competition, and he, like, Killian and Vinny Jr. and the Dembele's of this world, like, top, top players. But he has to be in the conversation.

54:07Dan Thomas:OK. Who is more likely to miss the Champions League? Did I miss something there? What?

54:12Gab Marcotti:We didn't get a percentage.

54:13Dan Thomas:He said 100.

54:15Gab Marcotti:Oh, did he? 100 % he gets overlooked. Oh. Alright, sorry.

54:22Dan Thomas:Who's more likely to miss the Champions League, Stevie? Chelsea or Villa?

54:30Dan Thomas:Want a reminder of the table as it stuns right now?

54:33Gab Marcotti:No, Villa's ahead of Chelsea. I think I'd say Chelsea. I think I would say Chelsea. I think Chelsea and Liverpool are the two teams that look as though they're the ones fighting for the fifth spot. that's how I feel right now

54:51Alejandro Moreno:Man U?

54:53Gab Marcotti:Man U? Man U are playing one game a week between now and the end of the season they would be I would suggest Man U were third in the race I think Liverpool, Chelsea absolutely are battling out for the fifth spot and if there was one of the top if there was one of Arsenal, City Villa and Man United that might end up there or end up missing it would be Man United but I still think it's Chelsea or Liverpool that are going to miss out.

55:25Alejandro Moreno:Are you working tomorrow Stevie? I am. I'd love a camera on Stevie watch watching the Forest Liverpool game tomorrow. It's going to be a bang of nerves.

55:35Gab Marcotti:No you don't. Honestly I'm looking forward to the Spoils Arsenal game. I am not looking forward to Forest against Liverpool. It's a tough watch right now.

55:46Dan Thomas:Just watching the games with Stevie anyway, he'll start shouting at a mistake a defender makes and you're like, which game's he talking about? Because he gets really annoyed at mistakes that he's got no interest in the game, no investment whatsoever. So you'll get those little moments as well with Stevie.

56:01Gab Marcotti:Give me that. Don, did you see Atletico Madrid today of any chance?

56:05Alejandro Moreno:Yeah, but I've just seen that goal in the A League. I mean, yeah, me. Yeah, but here's

56:12Gab Marcotti:the thing. Here's the difference. It's the A League, right? We're talking about La Liga, one of the Premier Leagues in European football and you've got Sarloth on his first goal the defender isn't even looking at the ball that's 40 yards behind him he's facing Sarloth and the goal's there and had he been facing the ball he would just have cleared it that's not acceptable at that level that's why I was shouting at the TV that's not unacceptable the ball's being crossed here and you're facing that way and the goal's over there. It's like, what?

56:51Dan Thomas:He's out of his seat and everything. Stevie and Don, did you ever suffer a setback or another injury while coming back from a serious injury similar to Alphonso Davies who injured his hamstring today? Were you ever concerned that you might not ever be the same type of player?

57:08Alejandro Moreno:My biggest surgery came when I was 31 and I ruptured my ACL and it's a brutal rehab i mean i could write a book on the on the rehab it is so brutal it's so painful um so i respect any player that comes back and plays at the very highest level i haven't gone through an acl operation myself and and see them come through the other end because it is it is brutal um and then what happens is you then start to pick up little hamstrings and little calf injuries because The surgeons probably put you into a different gate of running, shall we say, and your body's got to try and adapt where your hips might be a little bit higher and your running gait's a little bit different.

57:52Alejandro Moreno:So then you have a little bit more force on the outside of your leg or down the calf. So basically, when I had my ACL, I'd done really well. I'd come back after about 10 months, but I'd done really well for about four or five years of running. and then all of a sudden I started tearing lateral cartilage. Flew out to see Dr. Stedman in Vail, Colorado. He'd get me back for pre-season and I'd done that five years on the spin without telling anyone, without telling my clubs, without telling my physios, paid for it myself. And I was convinced I was tearing lateral cartilage just because of the big operation that I had, repairing the ACL.

58:35Gab Marcotti:That's the hardest part of what we did. People don't get the things that go through your head because you just don't know. I mean it's lying in bed looking at the ceiling thinking am I going to play again. Something similar to Don, in the World Cup in 1986 I didn't know I went with a hernia and a torn stomach muscle. and I didn't find out until I came back and I went and got the surgery on both. Came back training probably six, eight weeks later and then about five or six weeks later after that, it went again. So I had to go back in and get the surgery again and they told me just to forget this year.

59:25Gab Marcotti:Start again, the next pre-season. And then I came back in the pre-season and after 10 days I started feeling my stomach again and they kept telling me it was scar tissue and fortunately it turned out it was but my goodness for the next two weeks I don't think I slept at night I thought that was it I thought I was done but fortunately it was scar tissue and I got over it but I'll tell you what that year all the things that go through your head

1:00:00Dan Thomas:yeah I suppose that's the side we don't see when we're watching the game

1:00:02Gab Marcotti:we all think we're strong and we all think we're rational and we pretty much are but then when something like that happens all of a sudden all the things that go through your head and you're like where did that come from and why am I not everybody's trying to tell you to be positive but you're lying in bed looking at the ceiling at night wondering what's going to happen yeah that's tough yeah absolutely

1:00:25Dan Thomas:Don last question what the heck happened to your Italian boys in the Champions League this past week?

1:00:32Alejandro Moreno:I know, I know, I know. I'll tell you the only positive though, Kate. Did you see Juventus' fourth strip today? What a kit. That is unbelievable. Didn't bring them any luck though, Don. I know, I know, they're struggling. I mean, Spalletti's men have just fell off a cliff.

1:00:49Gab Marcotti:Yeah, I mean, the coefficient in England strong,

1:00:52Alejandro Moreno:Sarriar struggling.

1:00:53Gab Marcotti:I don't think I've ever watched an Italian game haven't seen an Italian gone. Come on, come on, come on. What's that mean? Is that what they say?

1:01:04Dan Thomas:You can't say, Cain. You can't really say what they say.

1:01:08Alejandro Moreno:Explain what that means, can you?

1:01:09Dan Thomas:Yeah.

1:01:10Gab Marcotti:Oh, right. Come on, come on. That doesn't sound right.

1:01:16Dan Thomas:There are other things that they say, Bob.

1:01:17Gab Marcotti:It doesn't carry the same weight.

1:01:19Dan Thomas:We needed your help the other day, Don. We did a big talk on this and, yeah, I needed some support. I wasn't going to get it from the panel.

1:01:27Gab Marcotti:Well, we decided that because of ours getting it wrong, we should scrap it.

1:01:31Dan Thomas:Yeah.

1:01:31Gab Marcotti:Yeah.

1:01:32Dan Thomas:Exactly that. No, absolutely not.

1:01:34Gab Marcotti:I love the way Doug brought that up earlier, who was like, see, told you. Told you.

1:01:39Alejandro Moreno:Because we had only come to 50 Cups the other day, didn't we, the shambles and the Newcastle game and the FA Cup.

1:01:46Gab Marcotti:See, here's the thing, right? When we're in a dressing room, right, and we're having a conversation and a disagreement, That's what Don and I were like when we were in the green room watching the games. Like, we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's one of them. And of course, everybody around Don and I thinks we're really falling out. But that's just a normal type of conversation.

1:02:08Dan Thomas:Oh yeah, trust me, I'm married into an Italian.

1:02:09Gab Marcotti:And as soon as we finish it, it's like, all right, cheers Don, cheers Lea.

1:02:12Dan Thomas:Why are you all shouting at each other? It's like, we're just talking animatedly. Yeah, exactly. The reason I'm giggling is, is this true, Producer?

1:02:24Dan Thomas:We've just received a text from Shaka.

1:02:26Gab Marcotti:Right.

1:02:27Dan Thomas:My flights back from Trinidad tomorrow have been cancelled. No idea when they'll be rescheduled for just yet. I'm supposed to be on FC on Monday. That old chestnut.

1:02:38Alejandro Moreno:What a liar. That old chestnut.

1:02:43Dan Thomas:I mean, there is a predicted snowstorm coming.

1:02:47Gab Marcotti:Oh, it's any old excuse now.

1:02:49Dan Thomas:I'm on FC on Monday.

1:02:52Alejandro Moreno:he's going to have the biggest drink with all sorts in it I mean Don

1:02:59Gab Marcotti:every international window there was always one foreigner who threw that one in he'd ever be turning up back Thursday morning or Friday morning and there would always be one missing oh my flight got cancelled just what happens is he's at Carnival in Trinidad

1:03:16Alejandro Moreno:I want to see him I want to see him with a large cocktail with pineapples and umbrellas and all sorts in.

1:03:24Dan Thomas:Ah, Shaq, abandoning us in our hour of need.

1:03:28Gab Marcotti:He's a disgrace.

1:03:29Dan Thomas:You might just be in on Monday as well, Steve.

1:03:31Gab Marcotti:I thought he'd probably do.

1:03:33Dan Thomas:All right, that will do it. We'll see if Shaq makes it or not. I won't be if I miss my flight. Yeah, can't make it in today because of the snowstorm. All right, thank you so much for sending in your questions. We'll do it all again tomorrow without Shaq.

1:03:50We'll be right back.