In short
ESPN FC discussion of Champions League quarterfinal fallout, focusing on Real Madrid’s anger after a second-yellow sending off for Eduardo Camavinga vs Bayern Munich, plus Barcelona’s separate UEFA complaint. Later segments shift to Premier League Champions League qualification odds and Liverpool’s injury crisis after Hugo Ekitike’s ACL/World Cup injury, plus quickfire debates.
Guests (podcast crew)
Alexis Nunes (host), Steve Nicholl (former player/analyst), Don Hutchison (former Liverpool player/analyst), Sid Lowe (Spain-based football writer), Didi Hamann (former Liverpool player; quoted), plus references to Jürgen Klinsmann and Vincent Kompany.
Key claims
Camavinga’s second yellow was for not returning the ball after the first booking; Real Madrid’s anger is partly misplaced because Bayern scored quickly and Real Madrid also failed defensively. Refereeing criticism is framed as media-driven “injustice” narratives. Barcelona’s UEFA complaint is described as performative without specific decision details.
Notable examples
Arbeloa/Bellingham/Rudiger quotes; Bayern goals ~90 seconds after the red; Barcelona’s complaint citing VAR offside, a red card, and a Juan Musso/Ferdinand clash.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOReal Madrid's Reaction to UEFA Exit
1:16 to 2:10
Discussion on Real Madrid's disappointment and reactions to their Champions League exit.
“They, of course, are referring to what they believe was an injustice with Camavinga's second yellow card, which eventually saw him sent off.”
Media and Player Responses
2:10 to 3:21
Analyzing how Spanish media and players reacted to the officiating controversy.
“Well, as you say, the starting point is a reaction immediately after the game itself, with Dani Carvajal pointing at the officials and saying, this is your fault.”
Debate on Camavinga's Red Card
3:21 to 4:35
Discussion about the circumstances and validity of Camavinga's red card.
“We're going to have a look at the two yellows.”
Impact of the Red Card on the Match
4:35 to 5:48
Exploration of how the red card affected the overall match dynamics and outcome.
“squarely on the shoulders of Kamavinga and somebody needs to tell them that.”
Frustrations with Referee Decisions
5:48 to 7:35
Discussion on overall referee performance and specific contentious calls during the match.
“Do you feel like a lot of people are kind of empathizing with Real Madrid and feeling like they were hard done in some ways or are they laying the blame straight on Camavinga's feet?”
Real Madrid's Defensive Issues
7:35 to 8:21
Analysis of Real Madrid's defense and the implications of their performance against Bayern Munich.
“think because we had jürgen klinsmann on the show yesterday and he said that he didn't think that it Real Madrid losing wasn't solely down to Camavinga getting sent off.”
Jurgen Klopp and Future of Real Madrid
8:21 to 9:39
Speculation on managerial changes and the potential implications for Real Madrid.
“And other than Mbappe, the rest of them didn't really do their job.”
Real Madrid's Managerial Rumors and Culture Shift
14:01 to 16:03
Discussing the implications of Real Madrid's recent management changes and their cultural impact.
“So what are the rumors in terms of who can come in and steady that ship?”
Barcelona's Complaints About Officiating
17:18 to 23:16
Analyzing Barcelona's recent complaints against officiating decisions in the Champions League.
“Well, Real Madrid aren't the only Spanish club that feel hard done by officiating.”
Hugo Eketike's Injury and Its Impact
25:14 to 28:01
Discussing the severe implications of Hugo Eketike's injury on Liverpool's season.
“Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start?”
Show all 22 chapters
Injury Concerns and Player Readiness
28:01 to 29:54
Discussion on the impact of player injuries and their readiness for big matches.
“with the rehab and the surgery and the aftermath of all the scar tissue.”
Liverpool's Tactical Challenges
29:55 to 31:49
Exploration of Liverpool's tactical decisions in light of injuries and performance.
“They could go and spend another 250 million, 300 million quid if they make top five.”
Chelsea's Struggle for Champions League
31:50 to 34:04
Analysis of Chelsea's position in the league and their chances for the Champions League.
“Well, it can't be, because can you imagine Jared Branthwaite and Tarkovsky?”
The Merseyside Derby and Predictions
34:05 to 35:54
Predictions and insights on the upcoming Merseyside derby and its implications.
“Chelsea both, I mean Don, Chelsea and Manchester United both can be quite unpredictable.”
Real Madrid's Striker Dilemma
37:34 to 40:00
Debate on whether Real Madrid needs a proper striker and implications for the team.
“I mean, you can't say they need a proper striker.”
Premier League Focus Points
40:01 to 42:00
Discussion on key focuses as the Premier League season approaches its end.
“But as it's been the most memorable time, but, people hope that we couldn't imagine for the sound of our kto to do it.”
Premier League Focus: Champions League and Relegation
42:00 to 42:30
The discussion highlights the focus on the Champions League and relegation in the Premier League.
“That's definitely what you're focusing on.”
Start, Bench, Drop: Spurs Legends
42:30 to 43:30
Debating the rankings of Spurs legends Kane, Bale, and Modric.
“Start, bench, drop these ex-Spurs players.”
Kane vs. Mbappe: A Comparison
43:30 to 44:10
Comparing Harry Kane and Kylian Mbappe's performances and impact on the game.
“I don't know why he doesn't seem to get the love.”
Manchester City's Treble Chances
44:10 to 45:20
Evaluating the chances of Manchester City achieving the domestic treble this season.
“Don, what's the percentage chance Manchester City pull off the domestic treble?”
Arsenal vs. City: Title Race Predictions
45:20 to 47:30
Predictions on the title race between Arsenal and Manchester City, discussing upcoming fixtures.
“If Arsenal wins this game against City, the league's done.”
Hypothetical Coaching Scenarios: Flick and Arteta
47:30 to 49:50
Exploring how Hansi Flick and Mikel Arteta would perform in each other's roles.
“Hypothetically, if Hansi Flick was at the helm at Arsenal, and Arteta was the manager of Barcelona, how would each club perform differently?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00ESPN FC Crew:Thrivent believes money is more than numbers. It's a way to care for the people, causes and community you love. That's why Thrivent brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs, offering advice, investments and insurance to help you plan your finances while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or direct charitable funds, Thrivent makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters most to you. With more than 120 years of experience and as a Fortune 500 company, Thrivent continues to serve individuals, families and communities across the country.
0:42ESPN FC Crew:To learn more, visit Thrivent.com. Thrivent, where money means more.
0:53Hello, everyone, and welcome into our ESPN FC studios for the latest edition of the show. I'm Alexis Nunes alongside the Stevie Nichol. We're kind of matching today. I love that. And it's the perfect time to talk about the continued fallout after the UEFA Champions League quarterfinals. Let me just say the two biggest clubs in Spain are not happy. And starting with Real Madrid, This is a look at some of the headlines after they were knocked out by Bayern Munich. Marca says, Que injusticia! They, of course, are referring to what they believe was an injustice with Camavinga's second yellow card, which eventually saw him sent off.
1:30And after that, Bayern Munich were able to capitalize and get the win. Well, Álvaro Arbeloa and some Real Madrid players had some strong words condemning the officiating after the game. Arbeloa said this, You can't send a player off for a thing like that. I think the referee didn't even know that Camavinga already was on a yellow. Jude Bellingham said, a joke, two fouls, two yellow cards. And then Antonio Rudiger said, it's better not to talk. You saw it, right? All right, so no surprise there that they are not happy. Let's welcome in the rest of our crew here today. We have got Sid Lowe over in Spain for us and Don Hutchison.
2:08Sid, you know I'm going to have to start with you. talk to me about the reaction in Spain since the 24 hours since Real Madrid have been knocked out.
2:17ESPN FC Crew:Well, as you say, the starting point is a reaction immediately after the game itself, with Dani Carvajal pointing at the officials and saying, this is your fault. Jude Bellingham coming through the mix zone and referring to the red card as a joke. And then, as you rightly say, the response then from the newspapers in the morning, both of the main Madrid dailies talking about the referee and focusing this game through the referee. The other thing that I thought was very striking was that the TV channel that has the rights for this game, they opened with an unusually editorial piece of presenting of the show that was very, very pointed towards the referee.
2:49ESPN FC Crew:And yeah, there's a lot of anger about it that's driven by Alvaro Abelola. I think one of the things that's interesting actually is that Abelola, who says that the referee didn't realise he'd give him a yellow card, and that was kind of part of the explanation as to why he then gave him another one. Now, of course, that wouldn't make the decision wrong. because in theory, if it's a yellow card decision, whether you know you've given one or not, and there are two of them, that makes you red. Although I think we all know that implicitly, even though referees wouldn't admit it, the bar for a second yellow card tends to be a little bit higher.
3:17Yes, it does indeed. All right, well, let's have a look at that incident specifically. Stevie, it is this now. We're going to have a look at the two yellows. The first one, I don't think there's much question about one, but it's the second one that has been up for debate.
3:29ESPN FC Crew:Well, it shouldn't be up for debate because by the letter of the law, if you walk away with the ball and you don't give it to the opposition after committing a foul I mean why, number one he shouldn't be committing a foul two seconds after he's had a yellow in the first place most normal players are absolutely going to stay clean as a whistle, instead he takes a yellow and then he starts messing around picking the ball up, running away with it not giving it to the opposition, so by the letter of the law it's a yellow, it's a bit like a speeding ticket Yeah. You know, there's a little bit of discretion allowed.
4:02ESPN FC Crew:And as Sid said, you know, usually the discretion would go in the player's favour. But it didn't on this occasion. And so I find it interesting that every single person is more than about the ref. Not one have I heard talking about how stupid Camavinga is. Because as I said, when you've picked up a yellow, from that point, normal players, smart players, sensible players will stay out of trouble and will do absolutely nothing just to make sure they don't pick up another yellow. So I'm sorry. This lies squarely on the shoulders of Kamavinga and somebody needs to tell them that. Don, how did you seed?
4:43ESPN FC Crew:Listen, if it wasn't Kamavinga, it was going to be Militao or it was going to be Rudiger because they were dicing. I think it's not being given for the foul. I think Stevie's nailed it and Sid's nailed it. It's for the aftermath. It's not giving the ball back to Bayern. It's not just dropping it to Kimmich's feet and saying, right, you can have it. The foul, I don't think, would have been a yellow card. It was the afters. There's no surprise that Real Madrid and Arbeloa have doubled down. That's always been their stance to blame everyone else apart from themselves. It produced a magnificent game over two legs.
5:11ESPN FC Crew:I've got to say, I flicked onto the Arsenal Sporting game all of about 60 seconds and I went, what am I doing? Why Why have I flicked over to check the scoreline when I'm watching the most entertaining game of football that I've seen for a long time? But the sending offs are sending off, and Kamavinga's not 18, not 19. He's 23. He knows the game. He sort of knew what he was doing. He was sort of... It's a funny one because he sort of... It's not like it's deliberate, and it's not like it's blatant, but he done it. And why on a yellow card would you give the referee the chance to then give you a second yellow card?
5:44ESPN FC Crew:You've just got to stay away from it. Sid, how is it being taken in Spain? Do you feel like a lot of people are kind of empathizing with Real Madrid and feeling like they were hard done in some ways or are they laying the blame straight on Camavinga's feet? Right, so it's always worth saying this and I know obviously most of our listeners and viewers know this already but the way in which it's dealt with really depends on which side of the divide you're on and that's a divide that exists in media terms as well not just in terms of the population and so as I've already mentioned the newspapers have been very very keen to focus this on an injustice to Real Madrid those newspapers that support Real Madrid those that support Barcelona are obviously saying the complete opposite now I think within um if you like Real Madrid fans I think there's been a mixed response which is which is to say that there's been a double response which is not to say that they would say well it's Camavinga's fault not the referees even but even those who are saying this this is out of order the referee shouldn't have given the second yellow card for this there's no way he should be sent off this and this changed the game even those people are thinking, I think to themselves, Camavinga really shouldn't have done this.
6:48ESPN FC Crew:That this was asking for trouble. Even if you would expect not to get it. Even if you think the decision is harsh, you put yourself in a position where the decision could be made. The thing that's interesting for me, I suppose I would say, is that there is this assumption, and certainly the way the language that Arba Loha used, was to say that this game, this decision, changed the game. Now, Bayern Munich go and score after it, but they score about 90 seconds after it. And there's a bit of me that thinks if it's 90 seconds later has it really been affected by it by the red card and you look at the goal it's not like it's a goal that's been created in a space that's been left by the player that's just been sent off it's not like it's a goal that's been created because you can suddenly see them outnumbered and so there's a bit of me that thinks that even if we accept all the other complaints the idea that this changes the game i think with time it probably would have changed the game but it feels a little bit too soon to say it's changed the game to me cv what do you think because we had jürgen klinsmann on the show yesterday and he said that he didn't think that it Real Madrid losing wasn't solely down to Camavinga getting sent off.
7:47ESPN FC Crew:Well, 100%. If you turn around to Real Madrid and say, you're going to score three goals in the Allianz Arena and you're going to lose the game, I think straight away your mind should go to your defence. So, again, they're looking in every other place except the mirror to the reasons why they lost the game. And I'm 100 % with Sid. Because it happened so quickly, he's 100 % right. You know, you had time to get men behind the ball. As I said, there was men there. They just didn't do their job. And that's why, ultimately, they lose four goals in this game. Because they didn't do their job. And other than Mbappe, the rest of them didn't really do their job.
8:32ESPN FC Crew:You know, Bayern Munich, in my opinion, were by far the better side. And to me, they were always going to win the game. So, yeah, yet again, Real Madrid are not looking in the mirror as to the reason why they lost this game. All right, well, our friend of the show and former Liverpool man himself, Didi Hamann, had this to say on Real Madrid's complaints. I thought the red card against Camavinga was harsh but defensible. However, it has to be noted that the free kick leading to Real's second goal was not preceded by a foul and that Stanisic was fouled before Madrid's third goal. So if there was anyone who wasn't entitled to complain about the ref, it was Real Madrid.
9:13Don, do you agree with Diddy?
9:16ESPN FC Crew:No. No, I thought Stanisic overran the ball. I've got to say I disagree with the boys slightly because I know what Sid's saying, 60 seconds shouldn't make a lot of difference. But when you see where Luis Diaz has scored the goal from, that should have been where Kamavinga or would have been where Kamavinga would have been. that's his job to try and screen the two centre-backs so I get the arguments I think Didi's looking at it from a pure buy-in point of view listen, it's arguable I watched that goal three or four times and I thought Stanisic overran it I thought once he took a heavy touch he sort of tried to play for the foul then the goal happened a little while later on as well so I think Didi's smart That still doesn't mean Rudiger can just run right into him and bash him over Just because he overruns the ball doesn't mean that Rudiger gets a free hit.
10:06ESPN FC Crew:And you can argue, we can sit here and argue back and forward all night. The free kick they scored from, you can argue is not a foul either. I didn't think it was a foul. So, you know, if we want to start going back and forward about this and that, there's no question. I mean, Rudiger, look, he just barges into him, he bashes into him, that's a foul. Now, did he overrun it? Yes, he did, you're correct. but that doesn't mean to say that if you're Rudiger, you get a free hit and go and smash into somebody. So we could go round in circles and argue about a lot of decisions, but it just comes down to the same thing.
10:40ESPN FC Crew:That one went against Kamavinga, but others that should have done didn't. Sid, what do you think? Well, actually, those two decisions, I don't know if those were the decisions that Vincent Kompany was talking about, but post-game, when he was asked about Real Madrid's complaints, He said, well, there's quite a lot of things I could tell you about that were going on out there that I'm not going to say anything about. So he didn't name those decisions. But I would imagine that those were some of the decisions that were in his mind. I think that I thought actually that Stansic had gone to ground a little bit easily.
11:14ESPN FC Crew:I must admit, on the free kick for the goal, my first impression was I didn't think there was a foul. And then the TV direction didn't give me a replay. And I was sitting there thinking, please, I want to see this. I want to know whether it's the right decision or not. I think there's a broader thing here. And just quickly to speak to Steve's point about how Real Madrid didn't do their jobs. I think one of the reasons that there's frustration at the referee and one of the reasons why they kicked Paco against the referee is that actually in the context of this season, I think Real Madrid would argue they did do their jobs.
11:47ESPN FC Crew:In a season in which they've really not played well at all, they played really pretty well, in patches at least, in both games against Bayern Munich. And I would agree with Steve's analysis, which was overall, that you look at the two teams, you think Bayern Munich are a better team, better constructed, more of the ball, they use it well, they press really well, there's a real sense of a unit. But I think Real Madrid would be entitled to say that in the first leg at least, they could have got a better result. And then the second leg, even though Bayern have much more of the ball and much more of the territorial advantage, there were periods in the second half that when Real Madrid broke, they looked more dangerous than Bayern.
12:16ESPN FC Crew:So I think just to try and put into context their anger, and the analysis from them wouldn't be, we didn't do our job yet again because this is what it's been like all season. It would be actually tonight, on the night when we kind of did do our job, and when we were close, we then had the opportunity maybe to take this game into a shame and maybe get something taken away from us. Now, of course, that's a very hypothetical analysis, and who knows what would have happened next. What we do know is that Bayern scored the third and the fourth. Don, final thoughts on this one, on what Stevie had to say?
12:48ESPN FC Crew:No, I get it. I get it. I think Didi's being smart. I think he's just ironing out this. I don't think the referee had a good game in general. I thought when Vincent Kompany, I was watching him on the touchline the first 15, 20 minutes of the second game, and the referee was blowing for niggly little fouls and soft fouls, or he wasn't, he's letting things go. And that's why I think Vincent Kompany got a yellow card either in the first half or half-time, second half, whatever it was. But I don't think the referee had a great night in general. But I think he made the big calls correct. So I think you look at it and you say, what a magnificent couple of games of football it was.
13:24ESPN FC Crew:I still think the problems are there for Real Madrid. As Sid said, they had moments in the game and they played well and they looked endless on the counter. At the same time, when Bayern got the ball, they're carrying a couple of passengers because they're just not willing to track back. And I just wonder, you know, what's going to happen to Real Madrid? I've seen them got linked with Jurgen Klopp today and I sort of laughed and thought, well, that was Javi Alonso's role to try and get these boys working hard and put them into a shape. you know, Jurgen Klopp wouldn't pick half the Real Madrid side if he got the job.
13:53ESPN FC Crew:So I just wonder where the club's at, if the club's got that much power and the players have got that much power where they think, oh, we'll just turn it on when we've got the ball. Yes, so just quickly on that then, and the rumours linking Real Madrid to Jurgen Klopp, because I'm assuming that after crashing out of the Champions League now so spectacularly and the fact that they can go to another trophy-less season, the thoughts of who's going to come in and steady this ship for the next one and the talks of Florentino Perez going into the dressing room and giving them a dressing down as well.
14:23So what are the rumors in terms of who can come in and steady that ship?
14:29ESPN FC Crew:Well, of course, this is part of the question mark now is what happens next and what happens to Arbaloa. And if you listen to Arbaloa's post-game press conference, he was talking like a man who already knows he's going, which, of course, we all do really and truly because he would have needed to have done something extraordinary to get this job permanently anyway. There are some things he's done that they've been happy with, but some things that they're not. and of course they haven't reached a Champions League semi-final and they're nine points behind in our Liga so that's just not going to happen.
14:52ESPN FC Crew:Jurgen Klopp is a name that I'm sure that Real Madrid would absolutely like and he's also a manager who said publicly on occasions that this isn't something that's anything to do with him and that he would be interested in and I think to speak to Don's point and I think it's really important the point that Don makes which is that one of the reasons I think why people were so kind of unhappy about the sacking of Xavi Alonso or so frustrated about the sacking of Xavi Alonso wasn't just about Xavi himself it wasn't just about thinking you know here's a manager we liked and he's gone it was about the feeling that this was a lost opportunity because it wasn't just that Xavi Alonso came in it was that the idea was here's a manager that gives us a structure that gives us a system that has a power and authority to build a team not just a collection of good players to really build a team and of course what happened was that his sacking was almost like a public manifestation of the fact that that authority wasn't going to be given to the coach and so I think a lot of fans and a lot of analysts look at Real Madrid now and they don't just think well a manager went they think an opportunity went an opportunity to change a culture at a club went and got and got burnt and and Xavi Alonso was a victim of that but what it also meant was that Real Madrid didn't take that step towards a different model not just to a more to better team but towards a different model.
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16:45ESPN FC Crew:To learn more, visit Thrivent.com. Thrivent, where money means more. A SoFi personal loan is here to help you achieve something once thought impossible. Overcoming high interest credit card debt. Walk the tightrope of your finances with one low fixed rate monthly payment, no fees required and as soon as the same day funding. That's right, pull off your own debt-defying stunt with SoFi Personal Loan. Visit SoFi.com slash trick to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA. Member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891. Well, Real Madrid aren't the only Spanish club that feel hard done by officiating.
17:27Barcelona also crashed out of the Champions League at the hands of Atletico de Madrid. that now they've filed a second complaint with UEFA about the officiating. Brace yourselves, because this is what they say. The club considers that across both legs of the tie, several refereeing decisions were made that did not comply with the laws of the game, resulting from an incorrect application of the regulations and a lack of appropriate intervention by the VAR system in incidents of clear significance. The accumulation of these errors had a direct impact on the course of the matches and on the final outcome of the tie causing significant sporting and financial harm to the club.
18:06Through this complaint, the club reiterates the request previously made to UEFA and at the same time offers to collaborate with the organization with the aim of improving the refereeing system to ensure a more rigorous, fair and transparent application of the laws of the game. All right, Stevie, I know you are trying so hard not to laugh. I hope the people that that went to just did that,
18:36ESPN FC Crew:got over to the bucket and went, there you go, have a bit of that. No surprises. What a lot of garbage. Get lost. Who do these Spanish clubs think they are? I mean, what do they think is going to happen sending this nonsense in? I mean, it's just ridiculous. Both Barcelona and Real Madrid are making themselves a laughingstock. And quite frankly now, anytime they do complain, nobody listens. It's just, hold on, what's the common denominator with all these, oh, they got beat. So they're not allowed to get beat, basically. In their eyes, we're not allowed to get beat. The refs are against us, the Vals are against us, everybody's against us.
19:15ESPN FC Crew:It's not our fault. Sid, like we said, this is not even the first complaint that they have filed since they got knocked out of the Champions League. It's not like they can reinstate them into the Champions League. So what are Barcelona actually hoping to get from these complaints? Yeah, I think you make a really good point there, you know, that when you have these complaints, it's not like they're going to be reinstated. And so there is always that sense of, well, what's this for? Well, what's it for, of course, is to show that you're standing up for your team. That pleases fans at times, to show that you won't be pushed around, to maybe try and put pressure on in the future, to maybe try and have a say.
19:51ESPN FC Crew:but I imagine that you said that Steve was trying not to laugh but the word collaborate is the one that gets me there. Yeah, we're just here to help out. We're doing this for the good of the game. And you say it's not the first letter. The first letter obviously came after the first leg and I think it's actually quite important to go back to the first leg and to say that the letter of Thor says there should have been a penalty and a card for that slightly bizarre goal kick that wasn't a goal kick in the referee's view, handball decision. now last year Atletico Madrid got knocked out on penalties by Real Madrid and UEFA admitted many months later that actually it was the wrong decision and that Julian Alves' penalty that was ruled out in the shootout shouldn't have been ruled out but what happened?
20:33ESPN FC Crew:Did they get reinstated? Well of course not it's far too late did anything actually change? No of course not and so there is that sort of sense that this is partly a performative thing it's partly about making the statement making the complaint making people see what you've done I would very much like If you are going to write a letter and you are going to dress it up as collaborating and helping out, then you need a detailed list of the decisions you're talking about. You can't just say several decisions were wrong. Okay, well, tell us which ones. Tell us which ones, minute by minute, detail it, and then we can go through and see if we agree with you.
21:06ESPN FC Crew:So if we're going to, should we make the assumptions? Should we guess what Barthena are talking about? Go ahead. They're talking about, because we've heard Joanne Laporta talk, so we think we know what we're talking about because Joanne Laporta has said this. They're talking about the Ferran goal that was ruled offside by VAR. Well, in theory, assuming we're trusting the system, the VAR is objective. So there's no argument there. We're talking about the red card. I don't think anyone's really arguing about the red card, although there is the question mark of whether Jules Koundé could have covered.
21:34ESPN FC Crew:And perhaps there's an interpretive thing there. And then the other one, I think, that Joan Laporta was talking about was the incredible save that Juan Mousso made from the Ferdermin header. when Ferdinand dived in and his face and Juan Muzo's studs connected and there was blood everywhere. And this actually takes us to something we talked about the weekend with Real Madrid. The existence of blood isn't proof of a foul. But obviously it looks horrendous. But that was an entirely fortuitous clash, which was actually provoked as much by the movement, or more, I would argue, by the movement of Ferdinand than by the movement of Juan Muzo.
22:07ESPN FC Crew:So there's three decisions and none of them are wrong. so oh are you apologizing for them all right don what do you think do you feel any sympathy for barcelona in this case no listen i mean listen other fans see through it as sid said barca fans might go yeah that we like that you know the owners are standing up for the football club but honestly every single team and it will happen 50 years ago will happen in 50 years in the future every team will get a decision or two that goes against them. I can't remember the game, but there was an early Barcelona game in the group stages where Lewandowski got a penalty and it was never a penalty in a million years.
Read the full transcript
22:54ESPN FC Crew:And Barca got the pen and they scored it. I think they went on and won the game. They were fortunate because it was never a penalty. So everyone gets them for and against. The statement's a little bit wild because it's like, what do you want? Do you want to be reinstated? Do you want compensation? What are you looking for here? So I think it's just a chance for Barca to try and vent because they haven't been good enough to go through. And sometimes it's as simple as that. Well, whether they like it or not, Real Madrid and Barcelona will play no part in the semifinals of the Champions League. Here's a look at the bracket.
23:24It's going to be Atletico de Madrid up against Arsenal in quite an intriguing matchup. We'll see what kind of football gets played there. But if you really love football, this is the one to watch. PSG against Bayern Munich. And you can bet Gab and Jules will be previewing and talking about what we saw in the quarterfinals of the Champions League on the latest edition of their podcast.
24:18Well, we're bracing for what could be a big weekend in Bundesliga action. Here are the fixtures to come. Hoffenheim up against Dortmund. Now, if Dortmund drop any points in that game on Saturday, then that means Bayern Munich can officially clinch yet another Bundesliga title when they are in action against Stuttgart on Sunday. Both games on ESPN+.
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25:17ESPN FC Crew:Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the Thumbtack app. Download today. All right, now to the very bad news that Hugo Eketike is out for the season and the World Cup after rupturing his ACL. Some reports suggesting it could be as long as 12 months. he took to Instagram and said,
26:03Stevie,
26:07this is just devastating news for a player who really was playing some of his best football.
26:13ESPN FC Crew:I think first we should say that there are certain injuries that we get as professionals that we all know can be a real problem. in the future. Yeah. And this is one of them. You know, I've played with a couple of guys who have had this type of injury. One of them had to retire and the other one had to change the way they played because they basically lost a yard straight off the bat. So I think we have to understand that Eketiki has been really, what he's seen there, he's been a brave boy because this is one of those injuries that every footballer dreads. In terms of the club and in terms of the team and in terms of trying to get in the Champions League spots, this is an absolute disaster.
26:58ESPN FC Crew:There's probably only two players at Liverpool this year, Eketike and Sobislai, who have enhanced their reputation, shown us what they're capable of, and now the actual goal-getter, the one guy that Liverpool could consistently rely on to come up with a goal, is not going to be able to play. And so, for Liverpool, for Arnazslaut, this is a disaster. Yeah, Don, as we were saying, I mean, when Eketike was signed and then Isak was signed, all of the headlines were about Alexander Isak being that main man up front, but it was Hugo Eketike that really came into his own and almost made him undroppable, of course, helped by Isak's injury.
27:37But this is just devastating for Liverpool. How do they cope?
27:43ESPN FC Crew:That's the question. How do they cope? I mean, Stevie's nailed it with the Achilles injury. It's one of those where, you know, So it's a horrible injury because it's unprotected. You know, like you wear shin pads and you can wear ankle pads and you can try and protect yourself a little bit. The Achilles is always like a vulnerable area and it's a long time because it's such a delicate place once you have that major operation with the rehab and the surgery and the aftermath of all the scar tissue. So it's going to take quite a while. They reckon it's the same sort of time as an ACL, so it's about nine months, give or take.
28:16ESPN FC Crew:But what you, I mean, you're looking at a guy as well. He's got so much charisma. He's so flamboyant. He's likable. You want to watch him play because he's exciting. He's young. He's got a trick. Liverpool are going to be a poorer side without the team. The hard thing now for Arna Slott, because I was having a conversation with a physio friend of mine yesterday, and we were just telling a few stories back and forth. What I think has been taken out of the modern game, and I don't know this for certainty for sure, But when I was coming back from my ACL, the first game I played was 45 minutes behind closed doors.
28:54ESPN FC Crew:The second game I played was 60 minutes behind closed doors. The game after that was 90 minutes behind closed doors. I was then ready for the first team. So Isak's come in and I'm not sure how many games he's played leading up, as in behind closed doors games, leading them up to that first 45 minutes the other day in the Champions League against Paris Saint-Germain. So what body of work has he got to lean on to suggest on a slot, right I can give you an hour I'm ready for 90 minutes because he's clearly not now they have been unlucky Endo's had a horrific injury Connor Bradley horrific injury Isak come into the team and broke a leg now it's Eketike but now it's big boys football you know it's the Derby and they've got Chelsea they've got Villa they've got Man United this is this is big boys football now so guys like Alexander Isak who when you're having the conversation with Arnaz Lott and you're behind closed doors you might say to him I can do you 45 well now you've got to go a little bit more now you've got to do 60 or if you're going to do 60 now you've got to do 80 and you've got to put the graft in you've got to put the hard work in because this feels like for Liverpool if it's Champions League football at the end of the season Liverpool have Liverpool have gone through years Alexis where they've not won a trophy it's happened before and it'll happen again but if they get Champions League football the team can rebuild in the summer and it can spend big in the summer because the finances are there.
30:13ESPN FC Crew:They could go and spend another 250 million, 300 million quid if they make top five. If they don't, you should have to think what market they're going to be shopping in in the summer. You know, the biggest problem with Isak is it would be nice if the only problem was how long can we play him? Right now, from what we've seen from him, the question is why would you play him? Because as much as Mo Salah is struggling, are you really going to play Isak ahead of Mo Salah? I don't think you are. Now, Liverpool do not have anybody right now that you can turn around and say is going to score a goal for us.
30:54ESPN FC Crew:But Alexander Isak physically can't contribute in any way, shape or form. And so Arnaud Slott is going to have to come up with something, whether it's Mo Salah through the middle, whether he starts Gakpo through the middle. I mean he's going to have to come up with some sort of plan A. to get the team playing again and B. to get a goal from somebody and I actually don't believe that starting Alexander Isak is the way to go because I don't think he's physically ready yet to get himself in a position to score a goal and if he's not able to do that he's not going to be able to help other ways in terms of closing the ball down or defending anything at all So, Arnest Lott is in a huge hole, and he's going to have to come up with something.
31:44ESPN FC Crew:And unfortunately, I can't tell you what it is, because it's not an obvious answer. Yeah, Don, how does Arnest Lott rejig his 11? Go ahead, Don. Yeah, it can't be Isak from the start. Well, it can't be, because can you imagine Jared Branthwaite and Tarkovsky? First minute of the game, they're going to go right through him. And rightly so, it's a Motherside derby. So, it has to be Cody Gakpo through the middle, or if it's a front two of him and Mo Salah. Arnaz Scott's got to come up with something where he can maybe try and navigate through the early parts of that game and then say to Isak, right, you might have half an hour at the end of the game when it's a little bit more open once the ferocity of the Mursad derby has calmed down a yard.
32:25ESPN FC Crew:I couldn't think of a worse game to start him in because he will get lifted in the first couple of minutes and it'll be non-stop. Well, as we said, Liverpool are not in the title race anymore, but they are still in a bit of a race to finish in the Champions League spots. They are currently four points ahead of Chelsea in the Premier League top half standings, you can see right here, which means that at the moment they do occupy that final Premier League, Champions League spot. Well, here's what Chelsea manager Liam Roussiniar had to say about Chelsea's chances of finishing in the Champions League spots.
33:00ESPN FC Crew:I think as the season goes on, the less games you have left, the more important the games become. We have to take advantage of this moment. We're running out of time. We need to show that initiative on Saturday evening and we need to play on the front foot and we need to make up those points, which is still definitely possible. All right, so big games for both this weekend. Chelsea, of course, going up against Manchester United. That will always be an interesting one. And Liverpool with the Merseyside derby. Stevie, do you agree with Liam Rossini that it looks like Chelsea are the ones running out of time?
33:30ESPN FC Crew:Yeah, absolutely. you know you can't right now put your money on Chelsea winning games and whilst Liverpool and probably Villa and Manchester United I mean for me Manchester United wins this game then I think that solidifies them they can they can pretty much guarantee it sorry about the dig but yeah the fact that the fact that these other teams have got the points in the bag yeah really is why Chelsea are on the outs looking in. You can't trust Chelsea to turn around and put a run together and win games, particularly this one. Chelsea both, I mean Don, Chelsea and Manchester United both can be quite unpredictable.
34:10At times we saw United now coming off of a loss against Leeds. So how do you see this one going and do you agree with Rosinha as well that it looks like Chelsea are the ones that will be on the outside looking in?
34:20ESPN FC Crew:Yeah, I agree with Liam. I think he's called it correctly. I think you're going to like this Alexis. I think because tuning into the game at the weekend, me and Steve will be Man United fans for the day. I think we'll be looking at Man United thinking like, can you do Liverpool a favour and turn over Chelsea and you can go and get third if you want. But listen, I think it's a genuine, when you look at Liverpool and Chelsea, because the fixtures that Liverpool have got, Chelsea have got difficult fixtures themselves. You can't rely on Liverpool or Chelsea winning a game. You're literally, I think, if you're a Chelsea fan, you're desperate for Liverpool to lose.
34:57ESPN FC Crew:If you're a Liverpool fan, you're thinking, right, can we just try and win a game and win another one and go back-to-back wins in the Prem after the win against Fulham and then go that little bit further away from Chelsea, hoping that Man United win. So it's between them two who gets the fifth spot. I think the other top four, I think, will run away with it. I think they'll edge away from Liverpool and Chelsea. And I think it's just going to be Liverpool, But I say that with no, I'm really uncertain trying to call it. Yeah, I agree with Don. You putting in a chair for the Red Devils this weekend?
35:29ESPN FC Crew:Come on, the mighty Reds. Oh! Just for this weekend. Wow, we may have to get Stephen in a kit. The words I never thought I would hear. But it's only because you're more dysfunctional than we are this season. Correct. There we go. All right, well, there's plenty more. That's how bad it's got. That's how bad it's got. That is how bad it's got. Two Liverpool men right here cheering for Manchester United. how the mighty have fallen. Indeed. All right. Well, there's plenty more Premier League talk if you check out our YouTube channel. And while you're there, you know what to do. Hit that subscribe button.
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36:41ESPN FC Crew:No matter what you need, we have thousands of professional parts people doing their part to make sure you have it. We're O 'Reilly Fast. Just one part that makes O 'Reilly stand apart. The professional parts people. O, O, O, O 'Reilly. Auto Parts. All right, that's going to do it for us. We've got some exciting questions to come for Stevie and Don. Extra time is next. Don't go anywhere. Have you seen them? Yeah, get them right here. Oh, yeah. Got them right here. All right, welcome in. This is alongside Stevie Nicholl and Don Hutchison. Guys, let's get right into it. Ready? Go on. Do Real Madrid need a proper striker?
37:32And if so, would that mean letting go of Vinny Jr.? What?
37:40ESPN FC Crew:I mean, you can't say they need a proper striker. I mean, you've got Mbappe. Yeah. It's just unfortunate that he doesn't help in any other way and the fact that Vinny's there and he doesn't help in any other way either is a problem in terms of the whole unit of the team. And regardless of what manager comes in after Arbeloa, he's going to have the same problem that everybody else has had. How do you set up your team to be a unit when you've got two guys who want to be part of the way they want to play and not want to be part of the way the team has to play. Changing them. Unless the next guy coming in is going to completely change what's going on behind those two to cater to those two, then it seems impossible that they're going to be a unit because the hierarchy there, the president there, is more interested it seems than keeping and particularly Vinny happy, but obviously keeping Mbappe happy as well.
38:44ESPN FC Crew:So good luck to any manager coming in, hoping that he's going to sit them down, ask them to do certain things, and they're just going to go, yes or no, sir, three bags full, because they're not. So they're in a dilemma. Quite the pickle indeed. Don, what do you think? Oh, I think the answer's yes to the question. It's inevitable that Erlen Haaland ends up at Real Madrid. It's just when. I think you're gonna have to cut one loose and I think if I was in charge I think I'd cut Vinnie junior loose and then put Mbappe in his best position on the left-hand side and then you'd have someone like Haaland through the middle Rodrigo when he's fit on the right side Kylian on the left-hand side but it's it's a club where the model I was watching and listening to Steve Manon on comms last night he was talking about the hierarchy and and how much power the players have got and the coaches Ancelotti done the best job he said Del Bosque done a great job when he was there managing the Galacticos but he said Ancelotti was like a father figure and he sort of asked them nicely and politely to run which goes against the grain of what me and Stevie are used to but I think I think you're gonna have to cut one loose I think it might be look a little bit, excellent.
40:07ESPN FC Crew:But as it's been the most memorable time, but, people hope that we couldn't imagine for the sound of our kto to do it. We highly enjoyed it, indeed. Thank you very much. I don't know, thank you for Showall. and maybe you'll be Roman for or for the I was crossed between, do you know what happened there? I was crossed between Maka and McManaman. Fair. And I twisted them both up. Fair. I think Robbo yesterday on the show was struggling to say individuality or individualism. I've got to tell you this. But I don't know whether other people find this funny, but Don and I will, because we know the situation.
40:49ESPN FC Crew:So there was another player at Liverpool called Steve McMahon. and his spelling was M-C-H, no, M-C-M, no. M-C, M-A-C. No. M-C-M-A-H-O-N. Right? Oh, okay. And every time we used to play away from home, particularly pre-season away grounds, and they'd be calling out, you know, John Barnes, and they'd all go, RAAA! It'd be Donald, just, RAAA! Steve, they'd go, RAAA! Steve McMahon ho-hey-ha-ha. Ha-ha-ha-ha. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. And we would have just so bent over laughing and Maka would be like... He would have hated it. He would have hated it as well. I mean, Maka was angry at the good day. He would have hated it.
41:36ESPN FC Crew:Yeah. But we used to love it. Steve McMahon ho-ha-ha-ha. That's Maka. We'll keep it Maka. Simple, simple. All right, next question. Apart from the title race and the relegation battle, what is one thing you're focusing on as the Premier League approaches the end of the season? I think you covered it there. No. The race for the Champions League spots. That's what you're focusing on. People motivated you to cheer for United this weekend. That's definitely what you're focusing on. That question, to me, is talking about the English Premier League. So there's nothing else to look at other than who's going to win it.
42:13And who's going to get relegated. And who's going to finish in the Champions League places. There's your answer.
42:18ESPN FC Crew:Champions League. There we go. Don, you two? What do you got there? I concur. It's the only thing, according to the question, if you've not gotten interested, the very top or the very bottom, it's Champions League European spots. Alright, there you have it. As you do. Next question. Start, bench, drop these ex-Spurs players. Kane, Bale, Modric. Wow. I know. I'm going to go Bale, Kane, Modric. Bale Kane-Modrich. Okay, so you're gonna start Bale, bench Harry Kane, and sell Modric. Oh wow. Okay. I mean, by the way, you make that sound as if he's rubbish, get rid of him. What just so happens, the three names and players are fantastic.
43:11ESPN FC Crew:And we've got to answer the question. Drop the Vucamata? So, yeah. I feel like I would start him all day, every day, but that's why they didn't ask me. What about you, Don? Horrible. That is a vile question. I would start Harry Kane. I'd start Kane. I don't know why he doesn't seem to get the love. You know, I might be in the minority here, because your heart says Mbappe. when you watch Mbappe think he's the best number nine in the world because of his numbers and how flamboyant he is. But your head says Harry Kane because he just does it. There's levels. He just does it. He scores, he assists, level, like, both of them are magnificent players but I think, I don't know why Harry Kane doesn't get in the shell.
43:58ESPN FC Crew:And if they win the Champions League, he has to be in the shell for the Ballon d 'Or. To answer that question, I think it's start Kane, bench, bail, sell, Modric. Both of you just went down in my estimation. Not far to go, though. For you guys, yeah. All right, next question. Don, what's the percentage chance Manchester City pull off the domestic treble? Wow. Wow. I mean, Jav done it one. I mean, from here, it would be... I mean, it would just be outrageous if they done it from here, wouldn't it? Yes. And the feeling is... That's a bit outrageous. No, I mean, sorry, I don't mean from here. I mean from like the start of the season, midway through the season.
44:49ESPN FC Crew:They never looked like they were going to be anywhere near the title. Now, obviously, they've got all the form and all the momentum. And I can only see them, if it's a footballing game, beating Arsenal at the weekend. Unless Arsenal, you know, grind themselves to a 0-0 draw, I can only see a City win, which is going to ramp the pressure massively on Arsenal. So it's hugely in City's favour. So, to treble, I'd say 60-40 in favour. Wow, that high! CV, 60-40? It'd be the other way around, innit? 40-60. 40-60. Aye. I mean, Arsenal's still favourites. If Arsenal wins this game against City, the league's done.
45:32ESPN FC Crew:So I would go the other way around from Don. What if they don't? But FA Cup they look like too. What if they don't? Yeah, but they're still... If they don't, it's in City's hands. If they don't, it's in City's hands. But right now, it's in Arsenal's hands. So you're 40-50. As we sit here, it's in both of the runs. Yeah, but remember, look at the question. It's to do the treble. Yeah. So, yeah, they're favourites to win the FA Cup. 100%. Yeah. But... The title. They're not favourites to win the title. Still win the Arsenal. Unless... But we can't... Well, what's your prediction for the game? A draw.
46:19ESPN FC Crew:I'm predicting a draw. Is it? What's your prediction, Don? City win. Ooh. The way they dismantled Chelsea last week. That was a statement win, that. But Arsenal are no Chelsea. That was a statement win. They may be on a rub. Arsenal are no Chelsea. No, the way... No, I know that, but to go to the bridge and turn them over three, that was a pretty big win. City's vulnerable defensively and Arsenal cannot continue to be so blunt going forward. And you know City's going to go forward. That's going to leave space for Arsenal. But it's the mentality that Craig keeps talking about. He says Arsenal are playing with fear and that just gets you.
47:04ESPN FC Crew:Arsenal are playing with fear, but it's a big game. Big game. You think they'll rise to the occasion?
47:13ESPN FC Crew:I just don't think they'll give much away. So you're saying an Arsenal? Oh, you're saying the draw. I'm saying the draw. And you're saying 40-60? But in terms of the question, that still makes Arsenal favourites. Yeah, so you're saying 40-60 and Don's saying 60-40. I'm going 40-60, Don's going 60-40. All right, there we go. Final question. Hypothetically, if Hansi Flick was at the helm at Arsenal, and Arteta was the manager of Barcelona, how would each club perform differently? Well, Barcelona wouldn't have highlighted. No.
47:46ESPN FC Crew:See, here's the thing. I don't need to think about this thing, Don. So, I said yesterday. No, the day before when I was on. I think the reason Barcelona play this crazy high line is because he does not have two centre-backs he can rely on. and so he has to make it simple this is how we defend and that's it as opposed to if you've got Gabriel and Saliba as your two centre backs then you can you can put some of the responsibility on them and say right you know you two dictate when we drop and when we do step up and have a line because that's what you do as a coach you have to you have to give your players some sort of trust to be talking to the full-back, to be talking to each other, to be in control of that defensive line.
48:37ESPN FC Crew:And so the best teams, you know, don't just do one thing. You never see the best teams just all dropping off. Barcelona, all they do is stay high. But if you've got two proper centre-backs, they can dictate whether they drop and when they stay or step up. And Barcelona don't have that. I think that's why Hansi Flick does what he does. because he says, right, this is what we're doing. Everybody will know what we're doing. And we will take the consequences if and when it goes wrong. And we'll try to outscore them. And we'll try and outscore them. Don, what do you think? It would be hilarious if Arteta went to Barcelona and turned them into Stoke.
49:18ESPN FC Crew:Oh, yeah. And turned them into set-piece FC. So Hansi Flick, as Stevie said, he's got two different centre-backs where he can play a high line. I think the reason why he's doing it is he's just so obsessed with squeezing the opposition, this high press and win the ball back and get it to Jamal and get it to Rafinha and Ferran Torres and Lewandowski, win the ball back like Klopp did at Liverpool and really like bang, first pass into your front men wide man because they haven't got any pace at the back. So it's a great question, but I think on the body of work and the jobs that both managers would have, I think Flick would be more successful.
50:02Because he believes that Arteta would turn Barcelona into Stoke.
50:07ESPN FC Crew:Stoke, yeah. That's a great line. Disrespectful to Stoke. Yeah, Stoke can pull off a thing or two on their day. I guess. Everyone can. I know, maybe not. Maybe not right now. Alright, well thanks so much to you guys for sending in your questions and thanks so much to Don and Stevie for answering them. As always, we'll be back with more ESPN FC and Extra Time tomorrow.
50:51ESPN FC Crew:Hey, sports fans. The ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network in service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional cost. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN, all in one place. Sign up or activate now.
From the publisher
The FC crew continue to react to the fallout of Eduardo Camavinga's red card vs Bayern Munich which led to Real Madrid's elimination from the Champions League. The guys also question why Barcelona are filing another complaint about the Champions League refereeing. Plus, Don Hutchison joins the show to react to official news that Hugo Ekitike ruptured his Achilles.
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