The Football Reporters: Can Arsenal turn heartbreak into dominance?

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23:11Well, next we're going to talk about Liverpool and Arna Slott's dismissal. We're going to welcome in Beth. are you surprised at all at first the announcement that slot is going to go and secondly the timing of it coming a week after the end of the season yeah well the news actually came through and got a little bit of a heads up just as I was about to step out of my front door to go for a barbecue so that probably indicates how shocked I was when I saw the news and surprised by the timing of it I think the fact that he's actually gone you know when you consider the way this season has gone when you consider what the mood has been like in the club, within the fan base, it's not a surprise.

23:50I think it is the right decision. But it obviously goes against everything that, you know, all the messaging that has been coming out of the club for the vast majority of the season has been that, you know, everyone, the hierarchy has been behind Arneslot. He got asked, I think it was before the Aston Villa, which was Liverpool's penultimate game of the season, whether he expected to still be in charge next season. And he said, yes, he had every reason to believe so. And again, you can kind of take those things at face value or not. But he did seem to have genuine conviction that he would be involved in the planning for the summer and would be in charge going into next season.

24:28So I think, you know, it has been a surprise that they've taken this decision now, having backed him for the duration of the campaign. However, you know, Liverpool like to do things quite methodically. they don't like to be an emotional club when it comes to making decisions and I think that is why they've done it now they've allowed sort of the dust to settle on the on the season and listen I think you'd have to be naive to think they've just had a change of heart this week you know I'm sure it's been something that has been bubbling away in the background for you know a good few weeks if not months Richard Hughes the sporting director was at the field when when Liverpool drew with with Chelsea and earlier this month Mark and I were both there for that game and remember we just turned to look at each other when the Anfield crowd booed, when Rio Angamoa was sucked off.

25:18But that just showed the strength of feeling, the disconnect between Slott and the fan base. And it felt like that was almost insurmountable by the end. So yeah, I think it's the right decision. I think the fact that they've done it now is obviously allowed, will allow whoever comes in next, which we think will be Andoni Iriola from Bournemouth. it will allow him time to plan with the squad to have a bit of a say on transfers and just allow for the minimum disruption having Liverpool having secured Champions League qualification at the end of the season. Mark, what do you think has cost Arnaslot his job?

25:57Because it's not so long ago that he was lifting the Premier League trophy but obviously the results haven't been great this season. Best mentioned there, the fan reaction to some of his decisions his style of football hasn't been particularly well received. There's also issues or has been issues within the squad, particularly around Mo Salah and some of his public declarations, particularly that social media post towards the end of the season. What do you think has been the main factor in Liverpool making this decision?

26:24Mark Ogden:Yeah, I think you've addressed a few of those there, Rob. But I think it's basically four results in May. I think that probably tips a kind of maybe a 50-50 decision in March and April over the edge because they played four games in May, didn't win any of them, lost two, grew two. And I think at the end of it, they just crawled over the line for the Champions League. It was very, very close. And they only crawled over the line because fifth place was available. So this season ended badly. If you end the season badly, it does kind of increase the sense that you're losing your grip. And I agree with Beth that the fans had lost patience with Arnie Slott in the most kind of humane and sensitive way I've ever seen a fan group lose patience with the manager.

27:04Mark Ogden:There was no hostility. I mean, obviously, he booed the Ingemoa situation during the Chelsea game, but it never felt hostile or angry. It just felt like exasperation and sadness, really. Because this is the guy that's won the league, and he was very popular in his first season. But a lot of things kind of combined together. Some people have said that he didn't talk or act like a Liverpool manager. It was very methodical, very straight, very honest. The people at the club say, lovely guy, decent guy. But I think what they mean is when they say he didn't act or talk like a Liverpool manager. What they really mean is that he didn't act at all like Jurgen Klopp because Klopp has now set the bench now for all Liverpool managers for the next 10, 15, 20 years because, you know, he put the club back on a footing that they hadn't been for a long time.

27:45Mark Ogden:You know, prior to Klopp, Liverpool were a declining force and he basically re-established Liverpool as a giant. But Klopp was the perfect manager for Liverpool, the way they played his football, the way he acted on the talkstand, the passion that he showed, the way he spoke. He was the perfect manager for Liverpool. and anyone coming in after that was going to find it difficult. Arne Schlapp had a brilliant start winning the league. But I think Beth will agree on this. I think although he had that great season, it did start to tail off in about February time. I think they lost at Plymouth in the FA Cup when he put his second string out.

28:15Mark Ogden:From that point on, went out of the Champions League to PSG. The cracks had already started to show then. It's maybe a harsh accusation to say Jurgen Klopp's team won that Premier League. But maybe they did. Now, obviously Klopp didn't win the Titans last season, so it's hard to say that he left a great team. But I think there was an element of Klopp's big players having more like final flourish, but it did start, you know, tailing off from February onwards. So if you look at that, Slott's body of work over the last 12 months and beyond has been unimpressive. So it's not been an instant thing.

28:45Mark Ogden:So the last 12 months have been great, and I think the last month has been the killer for me, the fact that four games, no wins. And the final thing, Arreola's available, and that is a big thing because he's available, he's free, he's relatively cheap, He does seem to be a rising star. It ticks a lot of boxes. He knows Richard Hughes from his time at Bournemouth. So, you know, I know Liverpool are, you know, set to open talk to the Raiola. I think sometimes we all know that there's a bit of a game being played. Raiola's going to go to Liverpool. It's not a case of like, oh, let's do this if Amdele O 'Reilly wants the job.

29:15Mark Ogden:It'll happen pretty soon. Well, just before we get on to possible successes and the Raiola, Beth, you spent a lot of time with Arna Slott. How will fans remember his two years in charge? because the contrast between that first season, particularly the start of the first season, compared to the way it's ended, is quite stark. It's almost seemed to be forgotten that he's almost took an impossible job in replacing Jurgen Klopp and then won the title in his first year, but then a year later he's out of work. Yeah, well I think and I hope that the history will be kind to him. I think in a way the fact that he's gone now will actually in the long run probably benefit him and enhance his legacy at Liverpool because I think going into next season, it was so difficult to imagine a world where he turned the ship around and was able to reverse the damage done this season.

30:11There was so much apathy, exasperation. Certainly when you go online, there wasn't hostility in the ground, but online the level of vitriol that he was receiving was something that I've never seen towards a Liverpool manager. and I think had that continued into next season, had he, you know, even if he'd won his first five games, as he did actually at the start of the season just gone, but I think even if he'd done that and then he'd lost game number six, I think that the tide would have turned on him very, very quickly. So I actually think the fact that he's gone now, the fact that he can, you know, I imagine he'll go on and be successful elsewhere and I think if he's interviewing for any other big jobs, which I'm sure he will over the next few years, he can point to his two years at Liverpool and say, well, listen, I won the league in my first year having taken over from Jurgen Klopp, which, as you say, it was a huge job.

31:03A job that actually not a lot of people sort of threw their hat in the ring for. You know, Xabi Alonso has been the fan favourite choice for a while to take over from slot. Obviously, before he took up his position at Chelsea. And even he sort of, you know, gave up the opportunity to interview for the job because he wanted to stay at Leverkusen, probably with the, you know, maybe with the knowledge that the Real Madrid job was on the horizon, but also because, you know, he probably thought, I don't want to be the guy that has to follow Jurgen Klopp. So, for Arnazla to do that, I think, required an enormous amount of courage.

31:38He did it, you know, in an exemplary manner in his first season. I think then the way he presided over what was obviously a hugely difficult summer, last summer, with Diogo Jota. and I think that is almost his greatest achievement at the club because he had to become then almost like a statesman you know that the squad were out in Portugal for the funeral of Diogo and his brother Andre and and to sort of have to to bring a squad together after that was you know it's something that a football manager shouldn't have to do but he did and he wrote a lovely open letter that's been published in the in the Liverpool Echo this morning where he spoke about the you know the unity that he felt in that time and a very gracious letter from a man that has just been sacked I'm not quite sure there'd be too many managers who would who would speak so graciously so I think I think in the long run I think he'll be remembered very fondly like I say I think he'll go on elsewhere and do well I just think it was best for all parties that he had it there was a clean slate this summer and I think I think having a fresh voice a fresh face in the dressing room was important I think he'd maybe there's been a lot of talk about him having lost the dressing room and I don't necessarily think it was like a rift in the way that a lot of people have speculated about obviously Mo Salah and him didn't really see eye to eye by the end but I think for the most part it was just a lot of the players were almost again a little bit apathetic a little bit disillusioned not that they had any great dislike of him but just that they needed a bit of a fresh impetus and I think you know that is what someone else coming in will provide so So, yeah, I think in the long run, he'll be remembered fondly at Anfield.

33:17I'm sure always, always welcome back in the future. Let's move on to possible successes. I mean, it looks like it's going to be Iriola at Bournemouth. Beth mentioned there, though, Xabi Alonso. I think the last time we had Beth on the pod, we talked about, you know, how difficult it was for Arnest Lock with Xabi Alonso being free and available and lots of Liverpool fans wanting him to come in. When he signed that deal with Chelsea, particularly from the outside, it felt like Liverpool had kind of made a decision to stick with Arnazla. Obviously, that's not happened and they're going to turn to Iriola.

33:48I mean, what do you make of that situation, Mark? And is Iriola the right man, do you think?

33:53Mark Ogden:Well, Beth made no more than me on this, but I've been told right from the outset, right from back to two years ago, Xabi Alonso was never really kind of high on Liverpool's list. And I think a lot of it is, I think there's an element of the fact that clubs don't really want to go for a club legend if they can help it because that club legend becomes quite a powerful figure. And you don't want the managers more powerful than the sporting directors and the hierarchy. So that's one element. But I think his style of play, I mean, this change with slot is being designed by Liverpool in many aspects to have a more attacking front foot way of playing.

34:24Mark Ogden:And that isn't Xabi Alonso's way of playing, really. Xabi Alonso isn't that... He's certainly not a kind of a clock disciple. I'm not saying that Areola is, but Areola's Bournemouth do play a very high-energy way of playing football. So that is more suited to what Liverpool want. and Arreola comes to the job, well, I'm expecting to get the job, but I think they have another candidate's name, but I think it's a bit of a phony war in many ways that Arreola is the guy. He is very much primarily experienced. He's overperformed at Bournemouth. He knows the sporting hierarchy at Liverpool. He knows some of the players.

34:58Mark Ogden:I mean, obviously, Kirk has left Bournemouth for Liverpool as well. He seems to fit with that group of players that Liverpool have got and I think he would bring that high energy. I think he has that, also the credentials, there's so many Basque managers right now who are doing really well. I mean, obviously, Xavi Alonso has another one, but it seems to be like when people used to talk about all the Scottish managers that's Alex Ferguson, that part of Spain is producing so many top coaches. I think Areola really is a rising start. I think Liverpool have decided that, look, he's available now. He has been linked with AC Milan.

35:28Mark Ogden:Let's go for it now rather than wait until half of the next season. It probably looks like what happened to Man United, Ruben Amrim and Eric Tanag. if you kind of keep a manager in a club that you've got doubts about it never usually ends well so make the change now the guy's available the guy's relatively cheap i've been told the wages that he wanted at bournemouth are similar to what slot earned at liverpool so that's not going to be an issue and get him in now so you can press the reset button because you look across the premier league at the moment you know apart from arsenal who've got michael arteza who's the longest serving manager now in six years man united have got a new manager chelsea got a new manager man city will have a new manager and zomeresque which confirmed at some point this week liverpool are going to have a new manager.

36:04Mark Ogden:So it feels like 2013, all over again, was Alex Foges and left Man United and Jose Mourinho went to Chelsea and Manuel Pellegrino went to Man City. A big change of managers and it's almost like we're resetting the board now. And Liverpool had to do it this summer because they didn't want to kind of be caught six months behind by a sacking slot mid-season when it wasn't going well. Well, let's just finish on Liverpool's squad then, Beth. I mean, what kind of job is, if it is going to be a real, or what kind of state is he walking into at Anfield. Obviously, there's work to do with the squad. Canate is going to leave.

36:36Obviously, Mo Salah needs replaced. What do you expect Liverpool to do over the summer and what will the expectations be for Areola and that squad next season? Yeah, well, I think Liverpool need to do a lot this summer. I think that was already the case. Even, you know, discounting all of the departures, I think one of the big problems this season is that Liverpool have really lacked depth to compete on four fronts. I think if you look at Arsenal, you know the players that they were able to bring on in the Champions League final obviously it didn't go their way in the end but I think the depth that they have had the depth that Manchester City have had has been you know totally incomparable to what Liverpool have had I mean Old Trafford a few weeks ago Liverpool went there and yes they had a few injuries but you know not a not a crisis as such and still they were fielding three four teenagers on the on the bench who barely played in the Premier League so they need to add depth and they need to have quality depth as well, because I think, you know, Arnaslott had the likes of Federico Chiesa, Wattaro Endo at his disposal and didn't always turn to them, which I think suggested that, you know, he maybe didn't rate them.

37:41So I think that the manager, whoever it is, and we think it will be at Iriola, has that, you know, has players that he trusts, a core of 16, 17 and 18 players that he's happy playing in any game. I think obviously the attack is a priority, no more seller. Hugo Etike is going to be out with an Achilles problem until at least January, February. And even then, you don't know what state he's going to come back in. So I think they need at least two attackers, maybe even three. I would argue that they need another centre-back. I think the messaging from the club this week has been that they're going to maybe focus elsewhere.

38:17But I think having that experience to go alongside Virgil van Dijk and obviously the two young players in Lyon and Jeremy Jacquet would be beneficial. sure I think they need a new right back and I think they'd benefit from an addition in central midfield as well so that's five six seven players potentially that they need whether they'll get all that done I don't know and Ibrahim Mekunate obviously gone so they need some more leaders in that squad so it's a big summer it's another summer of transition which I think Liverpool probably would have wanted to avoid when you know you look at the money that they spent and the the churn that was there last summer and I think just to finish on on Iriola I think you know there's been a lot of talk you know this season about style of play and fans saying you know it's not necessarily about winning all of the time it's just as long as you're entertained and I think you know the principle of that is it is is nice and I guess there's an element of truth to it but ultimately this now is a fan base that has been conditioned to win you know the past 10 years they've been competing for the biggest honours they've won two Premier League titles they've won the Champions League and an array of domestic cups so Iriola might get a season of sort of a little bit of freedom and as long as things are moving in the right direction but I think by year two if Liverpool aren't challenging for the Premier League and the Champions League then I think things will turn quite quickly but you know Mark wrote a piece earlier this year about the managerial market and Manchester United and maybe that's why they've ended up sticking with Michael Carrick because there aren't you know obvious contenders to to be top managers and someone has to be the next cab off the rank, I guess.

39:51And I hope, or Liverpool will hope certainly, that Andoni Arreola will be the next one.

39:58Mark Ogden:I'll tell you what, though, if Andoni Arreola is listening to Beth, I know he's going to drive straight back to Bournemouth. Massive rebuild. He's got to win his first season. Good luck, mate. No pressure. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we're going to be looking at the best place contenders to take the Premier League title of Arsenal for the next season.

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40:43Well, it feels very early to be talking about next season already given that we've got a World Cup to get through first but we're going to do it anyway. James, I'm going to start with you. If Arsenal aren't going to win the Premier League title next season, where do you see their biggest challenge coming from?

41:01Rob Dawson:I think that this is a harder question to ask than at any other time because of the state of flux at the top end. And obviously, we're moving into the post Pep Guardiola era. However, when you look at the Manchester City squad, the experience that they have and the fact that they've been able to bed in a lot of new players this season. And you would imagine that Mareska is not going to change it too much. That's kind of the point, isn't it? That Mareska is the continuity candidate. He's the guy who's worked under Guardiola, whose style of play is broadly similar, who has a lot of the same kind of ideas, idolises Pep, obviously, as well.

41:43Rob Dawson:So I was always divided about Moresca in his time at Chelsea because quite often I didn't, I couldn't see it sometimes. And then it kind of for a while it came together. And I'm always cognizant of, you know, when there's coaches who know obviously a lot more about the game than I do, praise the way that Moresca sets his teams up. And often would talk about, I always remember Arteta saying that even in the middle of Chelsea struggling, that they were the best attacking team in the league. and he said just volunteered this up at the end of a press conference and I followed it up with him he said really he said yeah if you look at all the metrics you look at any way that they attack all the detailed numbers they're the best attacking team in the league and he was doing that at the time with with a group of young players didn't really have a centre-forward to speak of certainly didn't have the tools the depth of tools at his disposal that he'll have at Manchester to City.

42:38Rob Dawson:So I'm kind of basing this opinion on those in the game who, as I say, know far more than I do, who seem to really respect the way that he goes about it and would set those teams up. And I think a combination of that and the squad that City currently have, and you assume they'll add to it again. Now, can I also just caveat this by saying if there's now a 30-point deduction and a transfer ban and half the players leave, then clearly I'd like to revise that. But City, as they protest their innocence, I'm sure they'll be fine, then I might have to revisit this. But I'm going to say City. Mark, what about you?

43:14I know you're a massive fan of Xabi Alonso, who's going to go in at Chelsea. Do you think that is going to be enough to take them from kind of mid-table, the Premier League, to genuine challenges?

43:25Mark Ogden:I think it will make a big difference. You've got a factor as well that they're not in Europe next season. So a bit like when United benefited last season from not playing a lot of games. I think Chelsea, certainly Alonso, will get on the training pitch and it'll just make them better. I think that Chelsea squad, I think certainly the first, maybe looking at 11, 12, 13 players that are very strong, certainly starting team, I think the depth has maybe a bit of an issue. But I think they're a young squad that needed the guidance of a good coach. And I think they've got that with Alonso. I think they'll all respect the guy.

43:52Mark Ogden:I think he's got credentials as a player, as a coach. Big question is whether that ends up Fernandes stays. I think he's obviously agitating to get away. But I still think Chelsea have got a lot of quality. I do think that they could challenge next season. You may have gathered that I'm not sold on Arsenal as a defending champion, so I think that Chelsea could push them all the way. I just want to kind of pick up on the City and Marescu thing a little bit. I think, yes, he's the continuity candidate in the sense that he's worked under Pep as well and he knows the club, but there's one issue that stands out for me as being a real kind of grey area with Marescu at City is what it does with the goalkeeper because we saw at Chelsea how he was basically obsessed with the ball-playing goalkeeper that can pass it at the back.

44:29Mark Ogden:He hasn't got that in Donnarumma. Donnarumma can't use his feet, as we know. would City let Donnarumma go? He's on massive wages, but obviously James Trafford was probably more comfortable with the ball at his feet, certainly when he came to City from Burnley. So that is an issue that needs to be addressed because if Mureska is basically stuck with Donnarumma, he can't play the way that he wants to play and I think that will obviously affect how City go forward. So keep an eye on that one. But I think Chelsea, for me, are the team that, if it all comes together, Colt Palmer's not going to the World Cup, so he'll be nice and fresh.

44:57Mark Ogden:They're the ones that would stand out for me. I think, in terms of Man United, I mean, that is the big kind of question mark, isn't it? What happens with United? Because they did make progress last season. They're a much better attacking force. They scored a lot of goals, which they didn't do under Ruben Amarin. But can they cope with the extra workload, potentially 20 more games? But if they make the right signings in the summer, I think United could maybe push. If it's another season like this year, it's not a 90-point season. I think United could push if they can handle the extra workload. I'm not sure they can, but I think United are probably in the best position to challenge.

45:30Mark Ogden:Maybe it seems like it's focused on left, but they've been so far away in that 13 years. That's not saying a lot, but as he stands right now, I'm going to say Chelsea are Arsenal's closest challenges and I've not even mentioned Liverpool. I think you're right, Mark. I think United, in terms of what they were able to achieve under Carrick in the second half of the season, if you extrapolate that to a full season, then they are going to be able to challenge. But they've got issues to overcome in terms of European football and being back in the Champions League, the extra workload on that squad. Just little things like Luke Shaw, who's played, who started every single league game for United last season, this season, whatever you want to call it.

46:07He's just not going to be able to handle three games a week. His injury record doesn't suggest that he's ever been able to do that. So they've got issues with players like that. Harry Maguire is another one. Obviously, we're talking about this in June and if they are able to get the right players and if they're able to get a top quality central midfielder in, possibly two, another left winger, probably another forward if Joshua Zerchke goes back to Italy, as we expect. There is a possibility there that you could look at centre-halves and left-backs to help out Luke Shaw, but when you add all that together, you're talking about six or seven players, and historically, United have never really done that.

46:47They've always looked to sign around three or four, and is three or four going to be enough to bolster that squad, to cope with a Premier League title challenge and also the extra games in the Champions League. You know, it's hard to see that. Just on City and Maresca, I do think Maresca is quite a smart choice from City because it would have been very easy for them to have seen what Guardiola achieved and thought, well, the only manager who can replace him is another kind of top-level manager, you know, like a Luis Enrique. Well, in actual fact, they've got someone in Maresca who's probably going to be confirmed this week at some stage, who obviously knows City very well.

47:28He knows exactly how Pep works. Crucially, I think he's obviously got those pre-existing relationships with a number of those key players. Players like Ruben Diaz and Erling Haaland, Rodri, who were all in the leadership group. Mark will know, as well as I do, that one of the main things that David Moyes struggled with when he took over from Srelix Ferguson was that the players just never got on board. And when that happens, you're fighting a losing battle it's only a matter of time before you lose your job. I think if Maresca can use those existing relationships well in the first few months of his reign and build on those, that puts him in quite a strong position to get City challenging straight away.

48:05And as James has already said, there isn't an awful lot that you need to do to that squad to get them back up there. Bernardo Silva's going to need replaced. You're probably going to need a right winger and maybe a right back to ease the load on Mateus Nunes. But beyond that, there isn't an awful lot that you need to do. And so they will genuinely fancy their chances of getting that trophy back from Arsenal next season.

48:25Mark Ogden:Can I just ask you the pair of weeks? Obviously, there's going to be a state of flux at the top end of the Premier League. It does feel like a real kind of a change some of this year. I think we've referenced 2013 before when a lot of big clubs are changing managers. There's a lot of uncertainty. Who's the best placed team outside the big city or the big five it is now to kind of break it in the pack? I'm thinking Villa, Newcastle and Spurs. I think Spurs will be a lot better than Roberto De Zerbe. But do you think, can any of those teams push for the title or certainly push for the Champions League?

48:52Mark Ogden:I think Villa are the best players, but they're in the Champions League as well. So Villa, Newcastle, Spurs, who do you have backing those?

48:59Rob Dawson:Well, you'd say Villa on the basis that just the job that Unai Emery's done. But I was just looking while you were talking there that Villa's... So since Emery was appointed at Villa in 2022, Villa have a net spend of 73.5 million. Wolves, Brentford, Brighton and Everton are the only four clubs that have got a lower net spend in that time. I mean, it is an incredible job that Emery's done. And as you say, the suspicion is that they're going to have to lose probably another one this summer. And that is increasingly likely to be Morgan Rodgers. And you do sort of feel, well, how long can they keep pulling this trick off for?

49:39Rob Dawson:I mean, I suppose if we're making the case for stability with Arsenal, then we should make that case for Villa. I mean, they are, you know, and they have shown their ability to, when it looked really that they were going to fall away, they've shown their ability to actually maintain it in the back end of the season, obviously winning the Europa League and qualifying for the Champions League with their league position being, you know, holding on to their league position. And I think we all thought probably come February, March time, they were going to fall away. The sort of intensity of Emery's football, the volume of fixtures, the injuries that they suffered as well, don't forget that, you know, that we'll catch up with them.

50:19Rob Dawson:So I think if Villa can pull it off again in the market, then they're clearly the best place. But you don't say it with any confidence just because of the PSR, well, SCR as we're moving to, compliance, that is hitting these clubs really, really hard. The ones that are trying to break in to the next level. They don't have the commercial revenue and the sort of historic legacy clubs, if you like, that have the bigger income that can absorb these kind of losses and still move forward. I just think recently we've seen when it's been Newcastle or Aston Villa in the Champions League, they've always struggled that same season in the Premier League because the workload and the intensity of those Champions League games, plus it's eight rather than six, takes a massive toll on those squads, which are invariably smaller than the likes of Arsenal City and Man United.

51:11So if you're looking for a team that's not in Europe, you've already mentioned Chelsea there have got quite a good chance because they aren't going to have those extra games. Newcastle aren't in Europe if they can keep the core of that squad. We obviously rely on keeping Gimaraes and probably Sandro Tadali. There has been a suggestion that one of those might leave, although Anthony Gordon's gone to Barca, so that may ease their financial worries. it's going to sound stupid because obviously Tottenham have had a ridiculous season, but I do think that if they could get the right players through the door, Roberto De Zerbe has proved himself to be a top, top manager.

51:48And if he can get players, A, who are of a certain quality, and B, who fit into his style and his system, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if around Christmas time they were up there. Now, I don't think that they would have enough in one summer to get them beyond the likes of Arsenal and Man City. But it is a massive advantage. It's obviously not an advantage that they would want because they want to be in Europe. But it is an advantage to not have those midweek European games, particularly with a coach like Roberto de Zerbi, who wants time on the training pitch with his players to drill in his system and his style.

52:25Now, I do think that if they have a positive summer window, and all the noises from Spurs are, I mean, James will know more than this, that they have learned their lesson and they know they need to get recruitment right, spend some money and bring the right players in. If they get that right, I wouldn't be surprised if they were up there around Christmas, New Year time.

52:42Mark Ogden:I think Spurs will finish top six. I just think for the reasons you've outlined, I think Deserve is a great coach. He's shown his credentials in that brief time he had at Tottenham at the end of the season when he kept them up. I just think he's a different level. He's way beyond what they had with Thomas Frank and Igor Tudor. And I think he will get better players. And I think, like James will know, I think Spurs will be frightened to death by what happened in the last season. I think it's really jolted a few people. I've seen the quotes from the CEO, Ben Katesh, about how almost like the club had gone soft, about how the terrain grows like a five-star hotel.

53:11Mark Ogden:I think they're going to try and rebalance it a little bit and make it a tougher environment and make Spurs kind of perform like they should do. So I think Spurs could challenge the top six because of the manager they've got and the shock they've had. Obviously, they need to make some changes, but I think Spurs have certainly got the money as well to do it. So I think Spurs could be the team that makes the break out of the big pack. Okay, one last question before we finish. Who's going to win the Premier League title next season? Obviously, there's a lot to come before than a whole transfer window, a World Cup.

53:39So I guess that we're all guessing. For me, and I think that Arsenal are going to be favourites, the champions for a reason. I think a couple more additions to that squad, they'll be even better. I wouldn't be looking too far beyond Arsenal. But for you, James, who do you think is going to win?

53:55Rob Dawson:For the first time in my professional career as a journalist, I'm going to say that Arsenal will win the Premier League Can I give you my top three?

54:05Mark Ogden:I'll give you my top three, right? Chelsea Man City Man United And I'm going to get my tin heart now and go Putting a lot of faith in Chelsea not having European football Yeah I like Alonso They've got some good players They're a very good set of players, Chelsea If they can focus properly So that's my top three Well obviously we've got plenty of time to change our predictions Before the actual start of the season and we should feel like it. An age away with the World Cup to come. But that's all we've got time for this week. Thanks for joining us.

54:43This is what everyone's talking about.

54:46Rob Dawson:Everything is on the table. This is what champions come to take. This is what everyone came to see. And the slam! No do-overs. No second chances. No more Mr. Nice Guy. This is Winner Take All. And it's all happening now on the home of the NBA Finals. Don't miss it. June 3rd on ABC and the ESPN app.