The Football Reporters: Carrick exposes Man City’s flaws

23:10Mark Ogden:So we're going to move on to Liverpool now. It's been a while since Mel Salah gave his comments after the game at Leeds prior to Christmas. I think it was like early December, but all of a sudden, five, six weeks later, Mel Salah is due back at Liverpool this week. We expect him to travel to Marseille for the Champions League game. So, Beth, obviously, he's been away at the AFCON for over a month, but the situation that he left behind, has that been resolved or is it still going to potentially blow up again for Anish Lott? Yeah, it's a little bit of an unknown at the moment. I think Liverpool need reinforcements this month.

23:41They need reinforcements in offence and in defence as well. So I think having a player of Mo Salah's calibre coming back when it seems like they're not going to be very active in the transfer market, you would say is a positive for Liverpool. But that comes with the caveat of we don't know what Mo Salah is coming back to Liverpool. Is it going to be a player with a point to prove who is content to take his place back in the squad, is content to be dictated to by the manager and his plan and fitting into the manager's system? Or is it going to be the Mo Salah that came out and spoke to the press at Leeds in early December, who is very unhappy with his position on the bench, as he was before he went to AFCON?

24:28So the official word from Liverpool is that the situation is resolved. Arna Slaught has come out a number of times and said that there's no issue still to be resolved. You would hope that maybe that time apart with Salah being away at AFCON has been timely and has maybe given time for the situation to defuse. But if he comes back and he continues to be put on the bench, who knows how he's going to respond to that.

24:55Mark Ogden:It's a difficult situation to assess, isn't it? Because Liverpool haven't lost since he was dropped, but they've not been playing great football either. And then while he's not been inside, Florian Virts has began to show what Liverpool are signing for. So it's a case of, do you bring Salah back to make the team play better and turn those draws into wins? But if you do that, you're at risk of jeopardising Florian Virts' progress now that he's kind of found a place in the team. But the flip side is, Alejandro Eastsac's been there for quite a while, so you might be Salah's goal. So where do you sit on this?

25:25Mark Ogden:What is the ideal scenario for Liverpool and most Salahs? Does he go straight back into the team, or do you have to keep him out of the side and then risk him blowing up again? No, I think he probably does come straight back in. with the caveat that it depends if Arnazsla is happy to play Florian Vietz off the left. I think he's been obviously starting on the right, but he's the sort of player, Florian Vietz, who is afforded licence to be that extra man, I guess. So he's been dropping into more central areas as well. So I think if they can still find a place for him in the front three, then I think you'd maybe give Salah a whirl on the right because Gatpo has been struggling a little bit on the left.

26:04So I think the issue for Liverpool more broadly is that, you know, they've spent close to 450 million in the summer. And actually the squad now looks weaker than it did last season, which, you know, is not what you would have expected when they were, you know, signing all of these players in the summer. But actually, you know, last season slot had six first team attackers. One of them was Federico Chiesa, who was obviously used very sparingly. but he had five attackers there who he trusted to different degrees, but trusted to start games and really deliver for him. I think this season, at the moment, with Alexander Isak being out for a couple of months, that number is down to three or four, really, with Mohamed Salah being one of them.

26:46Rio Angamoa, we've seen flashes of him this season, but he's still very, very young. Obviously, he isn't trusted to be starting week in, week out. Chiesa, as I said, he's playing more than he did last season, but still is nowhere near the level, I think, that Liverpool needs if they want to be competing for major honours. So they're really short on bodies, they're really short on numbers. So really, Yarneslott could just do with Mo Salah coming back and being, if not at his best level, then still being able to contribute significantly to the team. Beth, can I just ask that Yarneslott seems to have handled this quite diplomatically after Mo Salah made his comments at Leeds.

27:19But in terms of the fans, Mo Salah got a relatively good reception in that game after the Leeds game. But if he comes back and was to play the second half of the season, would that be the same? Or are Liverpool fans a little bit kind of sceptical of Mo Salah now? No, I think the reception and the reaction of most match-going fans when he did come out and speak at Leeds was, they didn't agree with what he did. And I think there's a recognition among a lot of the fan base that this has been a very difficult season for Liverpool for so many reasons. And the last thing they need really is infighting and for that to have sort of been sparked by one of the senior players.

27:56So I think, you know, there were some fans who were a little bit disappointed, a little bit frustrated with what Salah did. But I don't think that's something that they'll hold against him at all. You know, he's Liverpool great. If he'd never kicked another ball for Liverpool again, he'd be remembered as one of the best players to pull on the shirt. And I think, again, Liverpool fans are just so desperate for Liverpool to have some positivity, I think, this season. Just a little bit of joy and to be playing good football. So ultimately, if Mo Salah can come back and help them to do that, then it will continue to boost his standing in the eyes of fans who continue to adore him, really.

28:31So, no, I think there's an acceptance that he was probably a little bit silly to come out and handle things in the way that he did. But I don't think that will... I certainly don't think there will be any animosity from fans when he comes back into the team. What about you, Mark? I mean, obviously, it's no good for any manager if you're having to kind of battle your most senior player every week, particularly if he's not guaranteed to be in the team. I mean, do you see more sense in Liverpool trying to shift him in the remaining weeks of the January window or would you just plough on, hope that he kind of gets his head down and trains and plays properly and then sort it in the summer?

29:07Mark Ogden:Yeah, I mean, if ESAC was fit, I think you could consider letting Salah go this window if you had a significant offer from Salah, maybe, because it hasn't been the most subtle that we know this season. and I think the limitations of his game, the lack of tracking back, etc., have been exacerbated by, as Beth says, the changing personal up front. The forwards that are there now don't work as hard as the ones that have left. But with Isak injured and with Liverpool, obviously in a tricky situation, I mean, fighting for top four rather than fighting for the title, you can't afford to let, you know, one of your all-time great goalscorers leave.

29:37Mark Ogden:But I think in the summer, I think it's inevitable. I mean, I was just going to ask Beth the question, actually, but I might as well on the trip myself before I ask her. I mean, I was going to ask her whether we can see both Salah and Slott being there next season and I think Salah will go and from the conversation that I'm having with Liverpool fans and you know ex-players right now I think the slot could be in very difficult situation because and I'm surprised at this because obviously he got a lot of credit in the bank last year for winning the title but all I'm hearing now is the fact that the football's boring the football's negative it's cautious there's too many sideways passes and he's he's evolved the team in a manner that the fans don't want to see they want to see Jurgen Klopp football and last season's kind of a hybrid it was almost like the Jurgen Klopp era was still there but Slot had tightened it up a little bit and it's why they won the league but now that the Klopp element seems to have disappeared and they're left with this almost this kind of pragmatic Dutch football which we know has not gone down well at Man United over the years it doesn't really work in the Premier League this Salah play so Beth I don't want to put you on the spot here but Salah's situation how will that player and also Arne Slot is he beginning to lose the fans faith really?

30:41I think this is purely my opinion this isn't from anything that I've been told I think if I had to put money on it right now I would say that Liverpool could well start next season without either of them at the club which like you say sort of seemed inconceivable a few months ago Salah had led them his goals had helped lead them to the second Premier League title it's only the second league title they've won in 35 years and the manager obviously was a huge huge part of that and and I have been quite defensive I think of a barn a slot this season and I've got a little bit of stick from it off some Liverpool fans but you know I think he does have credit in the bank I think you know maybe some of the some of the narrative around him has been a little bit unfair in terms of I don't think he's been helped necessarily by the summer recruitment because as much as Liverpool have spent money and signed some very good players as a squad you know there were enormous holes in the squad that there was a period in in the autumn and into the winter where Ibrahim Mkhunate was playing terribly just really really bad and you know costing Liverpool a goal essentially every week and Slott was in a position where he literally couldn't take him out of the team because he had no one to replace him with and I think you know the last few weeks we've seen he's been unable to rotate up front and then there is obviously the added tragedy of what happened to Diogo Jota and the impact that that's had on everyone at the club over the past six or seven months.

32:12So I think he's had a lot to contend with but they're on this 12-game unbeaten run now and I don't think his position or his standing in the eyes of a lot of the fans is any more secure than it was when they were losing every single week, which is a problem. so I think you know if he is able to turn that around in the next few months if he's able to win a trophy if he's able to get Liverpool back playing good football then you know obviously there's every chance that he stays but you know at the moment I think the tide does feel like it's turning a little bit in terms of you know once you once you start losing the match going fans that is when it is hard to sort of see how you long term can come back from it and you know there were some boos at the final whistle on Saturday.

32:58There is now, every time you go into Anfield at the moment, there just seems to be this real sense of anxiety, this lack of belief, which is obviously something that was fundamental to what Liverpool did under the previous managers. So, yeah, it's hard to tell. I think a lot hinges on the next few months, but it does feel like Slott needs a big few months to win back some of the fans who've started to turn a little bit. Just on that, I think that Arna Slott's big problem might be Xabi Alonso because that is completely out of his control. And whether Xabi Alonso was Liverpool's first choice to replace Klopp is up for debate, I guess.

33:39He decided he was going to stay at Leverkusen and they ended up with Arna Slott. It worked out fantastically well last season. But the fact that Alonso is now available, I don't think his reputation is particularly tainted by what happened at Real Madrid. He's going to have quite a long break if he doesn't take any other job. And in the summer, there's every possibility that he may be looking for his next challenge, of which Liverpool, you imagine, would be quite high up his list as having been such a successful player there. So I do feel a little bit sorry for Arna Slott looking in from the outside, because I don't think that there's anything he can do to control that situation.

34:15Whether he gets Liverpool back in the Champions League places or whether he wins a trophy, anything like that, I think he'll always have this kind of shadow now hanging over him between now and the end of the season of Xabi Alonso. And there'll be Liverpool fans, I'm sure, who are looking at him thinking, I'd much rather have Xabi Alonso come in and bring his brand of football rather than the football that they're seeing under Arnest Klopp, despite what he did for the club last season. Yeah, I think that is a real issue. I think he's actually got two big problems. I think one of them is Xabi Alonso.

34:44And I think one of them is Jurgen Klopp in the sense that, you know, last season, We all said before the start of last season, it's an impossible task almost to come in and replace Jürgen Klopp because he wasn't just a fantastic manager in terms of the football that he was able to create on the pitch, but also in terms of the way he led the club, almost like a statesman really, with such a big personality. And Arna Slott is very different to that. And I think maybe that was tough for some fans to reconcile with last season, But because Liverpool were winning, you know, it was a pill that they were happy to swallow.

35:20Whereas this season, the results and the performances haven't been there. And so now the fact that Arna Slott isn't as outgoing, doesn't have as much of an emotional connection with the fans, is sort of working against him. You know, I've seen so many things, certainly on social media from fans, just sort of longing for Jürgen Klopp to come back. And, you know, I think one concern for Liverpool and for Liverpool fans is, you know, one thing that people have criticised Manchester United for for a number of years is sort of harping on about Sir Alex Ferguson and what he was able to do and his sort of shadow looming over the club.

35:53And of course, Jürgen Klopp was a legendary figure, you know, and he'll always be revered at Anfield. but I think the thing that people need to bear in mind is that whoever Liverpool's manager is going forward, whether it's Slott, whether it's Xabi Alonso, whether it's someone else, they're not going to be Ergen Klopp, both in terms of the personality and the football. So I think that's something that's working against him and, as Rob said as well, the fact that Alonso now is someone that a lot of fans would like to have at the club.

36:20Mark Ogden:The Xabi Alonso one's pretty interesting. Obviously, he knows Florian Wurz, he knows Jerry Fringpong. He's got their kind of backing straight away because he won a Bundesliga title with them. So you can see him walking into that dressing room and having an immediate impact. But I just want to kind of drop something that I was told last week. So when the whole Man United situation was going off and I was speaking to somebody, talking about United, and just a kind of a cheeky little, why not consider Xabi Alonso? And obviously I know the answer is that he played for Liverpool, et cetera. But he was like, no, no, no, that's not going to happen, he said.

36:47Mark Ogden:And the story that this guy had been told, and he has a bit of insight, was that they said, no, Xabi Alonso will end up at Bayern Munich this summer and Vincent Kompany will go to Man City because Man City wants Vincent Kompany back and Xabi Alonso is an obvious fit for Bayern Munich because as much of a legend he is at Liverpool, he's also a great at Bayern Munich. I thought, well, that's an interesting one because Xabi Alonso has kind of, he made a career move, got a Real Madrid. He couldn't say no, but he's got to be careful for his next move. He has to make sure his next move is a success because if he's not, then where does he go after that?

37:22Mark Ogden:And I guess moving to Bayern Munich would be an easier job to be a success at than going to Liverpool, especially a Liverpool that's in transition because, you know, Mulsala might not be there next season. You've got Virgil van Dijk, that situation. You know, the goalkeeper, Alisson, great as he is. I think he's shown a couple of frailties this year. So, you know, Xabi Alonso, if he went to Liverpool, we're writing off Arne Slott here and that's probably wrong, but if Xabi Alonso goes to Liverpool this summer, he's got a rebuilding job ahead of him. So, you know, I don't know how it plays out, but let's just say Arne Slott leads Liverpool and Xabi Alonso does go to Bayern Munich.

37:53Mark Ogden:Who does that lead Liverpool with? What does Liverpool do then? Do they go to Stephen Gerrard? Do they go to have the old player? I certainly don't think they'll be going to. Wonderful DNA. Is it an Iriola? Is it a Desderby? But that's when you're in territory, you're kind of trying to think on the hoof. And they've had a brilliant bit of success with Arne Slott. Nobody kind of called that one. But if Arne Slott goes and it's not Xabi Alonso, then who do they go to? Yeah, I mean, one thing that Liverpool always sort of pride themselves on, whether it be for managers or for players, is that, you know, they've got all the data there and they like to be led by that so it will be whoever sort of lines up best in terms of the underlying metrics like you say I don't think any of us would have predicted that Arna Slott would have been you know high on the on the list to to take over from from Jurgen Klopp so um so yeah it remains to be remains to be seen but I think that the Alonso to Liverpool thing would be you know a lot of fans would be pleased with that because of that romantic connection and again it maybe comes from craving a little bit of what they have with Jurgen Klopp is having someone who is a legendary figure and having that relationship with the fans.

38:59So yeah, I think a big few months ahead for Arna Slaat and listen, he's shown he's capable of doing fantastic things with a lot of these same players. So, you know, you can't write him off just yet, but it does feel like he's got a little bit of a challenge on his hands to try and get everyone back on side.

39:17Mark Ogden:Well, Liverpool are still in the Champions League. We know that Liverpool have got a great pedigree in the Champions League and they could win it this year and all of a sudden that might silence the Arnish slot debate but enough with Liverpool and more Salah and Arnish slot for a while we're going to go for a break and then come back and talk about the power of ex-players in the media and why some players are biting back. As you know managing maintenance repair and operations is never easy but for the ones who always rise to the challenge Grainger has your back from professional grade products you can count on to fast dependable delivery they're there to help you keep things running smoothly Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions.

39:55And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by.

40:10Mark Ogden:So there's a new trend developing of former players having a go at modern-day players and modern-day players having a bit of a bite back. So this weekend, Rob, you were at Old Trafford and you were down in the mix zone. You spoke to Lisandro Martinez, who wasn't very happy about some comments made by Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt last week ahead of his game against Erling Haaland. They were both suggesting that he would be thrown about like a toddler. I think it was the word by Erling Haaland and that he would have a great game. Now, I think we both know that Lisandro Martinez's record against Haaland is pretty good.

40:38I think there's only one game that he scored Haaland against Haaland in five or six games.

40:41Mark Ogden:So anyway, so talk me through Lisandro Martinez and how he bit back at Paul Scholes. Yeah, so the mix zone at clubs will work in different ways. At Man United, you sort of leave the press box, you walk down right by the side of the pitch and the players sort of speak to you in the tunnel area. Now, sometimes if it's a defeat or a bad result, players won't speak to you at all. If it's a good result like it was with United on Saturday against City, the club will try to bring you a player to speak about it. Now, often in these cases, players just want to speak about the game and what's happened on the pitch.

41:17for the 90 minutes beforehand. Other times, there have been situations where players have got certain things to say because they've got something they want to get off their chest. Now, when we were told that it was going to be Lissandro Martinez, we were also told that he had something to say. And we kind of worked out pretty quickly that it was going to be about what Paul Scholes and Nicky Putz said about him in their podcast before the Manchester derby. Now, United were upset about those, or disappointed is probably a better word, about those comments that you've just mentioned. And I think Nicky Butt said that the battle between Martinez and Haaland was going to resemble a dad after school picking a toddler up and taking him to the car.

41:55And then Scholes, I think, said something like, Haaland's going to score and then throw Martinez in the net with the ball, something along those lines. Now, United felt that that kind of crossed the line from constructive analysis into trying to mock one of their players, which I can kind of understand the point that we're trying to make. And after the first question gets put to Lissandro Martinez about the game, and the second one is about these comments from Paul Scoles and Nicky Button. Clearly, he had his response ready and waiting and sort of said, you know, if he wants, he can come to my house and he can say it to my face that he sees them at Old Trafford when they've come to games and no one ever says anything to me.

42:29They're kind of essentially saying these pundits sit in a TV studio or a podcast studio and say what they want in front of a TV or a microphone, but when it's face-to-face, they haven't got the guts to do it, you know, to the person straight, face-to-face. So, you know, it's fair for Martinez to buy it back. If pundits are going to kind of have their say in that kind of way, then Martinez is more than entitled to give his say as well. I think that, you know, he felt like it was deserved, particularly after he's come off a game where he's, you know, essentially proved Scholes and bought completely wrong.

43:00They thought that Helen was going to win that battle. Martinez, I think, clearly won it and helped United win the game and record a really important result for Michael Carrick.

43:09Mark Ogden:I think we have to say that Paul Scholes responded about an hour after you all copied, landed, Rob, and Sculls, you said, yeah, someone's had a good game, haven't they? Tea and two sugars, please. So I think the reality is that, you know, knowing Paul Sculls and Nicky Bott a little bit, I know that their views come from a sense of, they're big United fans and they don't like the way the team is playing right now. They feel hurt that the club is in this way, but you have to accept as well that Xander and Martinez were probably even born when these two were at the peak. So he doesn't quite know how good a player they were and how important they were to Man United's history.

43:42Mark Ogden:So they will be seen as basically two old men that are making their life a misery. So I do think that he's probably pitched on their own too there because I think Paul Scholes and Nicky Bout are the two that are least likely to say, sorry, mate, I put my hands up. They'll probably say yes when you want to meet us. I mean, that's a good thing or not, but it's great for us. But I do think that a lot of fans also get on the backs of the legends for not being supportive. But I guess if these guys have seen how a club can be successful and they see the club not being successful and the reasons why they believe are because they're not honouring certain traditions or philosophies, then they aren't entitled to an opinion.

44:15Mark Ogden:They're being critical, but they're being supported at the same time. So I think some fans and some players have to grow a thicker skin when these legends are making their comments because these guys have earned the right because they've won everything at clubs, not just Man United. I mean, Beth, we know that Marseille has had a few issues with Jamie Carragher and Jamie Carragher, again, apart from the Premier League, he won everything to Liverpool. so the fact that he's not one of the Premier League is often held against Jamie Carragher you can't say this because he didn't do that but he won everything else he's a bona fide Liverpool legend so why doesn't he have the right to say things about Mo Salah and Virgil van Dijk why are they being so thin-skinned and sensitive about it?

44:49Yeah I think the thing with Mo Salah obviously he name-dropped Jamie Carragher in that pretty explosive rant that he had at Leeds and I think Salah's frustration stemmed from the fact I think he felt like he was being I think he felt probably like Martinez felt like it crossed the line from being a constructive criticism of um of him or his game and it had become a bit of a personal vendetta a little bit with with Carragher because he'd mentioned him quite a few times and and Carragher sort of doubled down on it on Monday Night Football a few nights later and sort of said well um and he did make it quite personal because he went on about him not being successful with his country and you know so I understood to an extent why Seller was frustrated I think he used Carragher maybe as like a representation of the media because, you know, the media as a collective this season has probably been quite critical of Mo Salah.

45:41And yes, a lot of that criticism has been warranted. But, you know, Salah would probably be within his rights to say, well, listen, I helped carry this team to a title last season. I'm not entitled a little bit of grace. And, you know, so I understand it to an extent. But then also I agree with you, Mark, in the sense that, you know, these ex-players, they know what it takes to be successful at clubs. You know, a lot of them support the clubs or, you know, have played for them since they were children, basically, and care about them in the way that fans do. And so sometimes, you know, the comments are rooted in frustration and genuine just emotion.

46:19and you know I think as far as the Martinez one goes I mean I can again I can understand why he felt that was maybe a little bit personal and not constructive in terms of the criticism but one of my sort of overarching memories of Martinez was when they got the I think it was must have been the two-all draw at Anfield earlier in there in 2025 when Martinez scored didn't he and he came out and and gave an interview afterwards and he got asked you know what what's different this time how he was able to get this performance and he just sort of tapped his head and went mentality and I remember thinking if I was a Manchester United fan and I was watching that I would be absolutely livid because he's essentially said they've switched on because it's a big game so I think I can understand where that frustration does come from from fans and from pundits and I also think Virgil van Dijk has had it a couple of times with Wayne Rooney there was a little bit of a back and forth between the two of them a couple of months back when Rooney criticised his leadership and Van Dijk, to be fair, sort of, you know, he bit back a bit, but then he also sort of said, you know, I understand that he has a job to do and listen, a lot of these players probably once they retire will go on to do the same thing and, you know, we know what it's like when you've got an hour to fill of a podcast or, you know, you're writing articles, multiple articles a week and you've got things that you need to say and topics that you need to talk about and so sometimes, you know, There is going to be inevitably criticism or things that players don't like that creeps in.

47:48But I suppose it's whether it crosses that line and becomes it a little bit too personal. I think it goes in cycles, doesn't it? Because if you look at Liverpool, Liverpool were the best team of the 70s and 80s, which means that their players were the most famous. And so when they were looking for pundits in the 90s, there were ex-players like Alan Hansen who had really high-profile punditry gigs on match of the day in the UK. And so when he said something about Liverpool, it really matters because he had been part of such a successful team there. And the same thing is happening with Man United now.

48:20United were the best team of the 90s and 2000s, which meant that that group of players is the most famous of that era, that their word matters. And they get big punditry gigs. Gary Neville works on Sky Sports in the UK. Roy Keane is another one on the same channel. Paul Scholes was a pundit on TNT and now has obviously a high-profile podcast. And so when these players, these high-profile players who have won an awful lot with that club and that club is then not performing properly, their weight, their opinion, sorry, carries an awful lot of weight. And not to disrespect any of the pundits out there, but people like, say, Danny Murphy, for example, who was also a pundit in the UK, a very successful career with Liverpool and England, And if he was to say something about Man United, people will probably go, OK, but it doesn't carry the same weight as a Gary Neville or a Roy Keane or a Paul Scholes because of what they have achieved at that club.

49:14And so when these pundits say things, it automatically becomes a bigger deal. So even in Michael Carrick's first press conference on Friday before the City game, one of the first questions he's asked is about Roy Keane and some of the comments that Roy Keane has already made about Michael Carrick. Now, that wouldn't happen if it's Danny Murphy or anyone else. and it adds pressure onto Michael Carrick straight away. The players, again, it could have been any number of players brought to the mixed zone after the City game. We had an incident earlier in the season where Luke Shaw has had a relatively good game and in the mixed zone, someone has said, oh, by the way, did you see Roy Keane a couple of weeks ago?

49:48He was questioning whether you have the right mentality to play for Man United. Now, those comments were a week apart, but yet Luke Shaw is still having to answer things that Roy Keane has said a month earlier. and it does add more pressure, I think, for the players. I mean, lots of fans will listen to this and go, well, if you're playing for Man United, you have to deal with it anyway. The pressure comes from all angles, deal with it. And I appreciate that. That is true. If you're going to sign for Man United, you have to deal with it. But because of these ex-players, what they've achieved, the profile that they've got, if they say something negative about you, whether you're a player or a manager, it does add extra pressure and extra scrutiny and it is something extra that you have to deal with.

50:25Mark Ogden:It's funny, it's a case to be careful what you wish for because basically what was it, 10, 15 years when Man City started their rise under Sheikh Mansour, at the time, you mentioned them, Rob, that Alan Hansens and Mark Lawrensens, the ex-Liverpool players, the greatest of the Liverpool in the 1980s era, were the most prominent pundits. And people at Man City just couldn't get it into their head that these guys were always, every week, the Liverpool legends, the Liverpool legends were saying this about Man City. And Man City had no legends in the media because they accepted that 10, 15, 20 years prior to that, when they would become legends, they didn't have any players that were worthy of being legends.

51:01Mark Ogden:They had a team of misfits in the 1990s and 1980s. Nobody wanted a Man City legend from those days because they didn't have any legends. So City actually made it a kind of a... They had an actual drive to get ex-players into the media. So you'll have seen Joe Hart, Pablo Zabaleta, Vincent Kompany for a while. Obviously, we know that Nadum, who works with us. Again, City are very... Michael Richards, they want their voices in the media so that when there are issues to address in Man City, they've got somebody fighting their corner. So, you know, if Man City are being criticised, you know, the 115 charges comes up quite a lot, then they've got somebody who can put the club's perspective and fight the corner against the Liverpool legends, the Man United legends.

51:36Mark Ogden:So, as it stands right now, City are in a good place because they're generally winning and they've not got a lot to say negative about them. But the time will come when these ex-City players will get frustrated with the way things are going and start having it go. And then the players, you know, three or four years down the line, that aren't winning, aren't as successful as they are now, will be complaining about these ex-players that are having to go. So it goes around in circles. If you're winning, the players are quiet. They don't have anything to say. But when you're losing, that's when the legends come through.

52:03Mark Ogden:But we'll see how it goes. But Man United and Liverpool, the two of the biggest clubs in the world, have got a lot of great ex-players with voice in the media. It's one of those things. And like you say, Rob, sometimes if you can't deal with it, then don't be there. I read an interview with Christian Eriksen a couple of weeks ago. obviously Christian Eriksen is now at Wolfsburg and within the piece Christian Eriksen was talking about how hard it is to play for Man United how when you win a trophy they don't celebrate it because it's not a big enough trophy how the legends are always having a go you want to shut the door behind you and cut out the noise and it's like mate if that's what you think about playing for Man United don't play for Man United because it comes with the territory you're playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world that have big demands if you want to close the door behind you and turn off the noise and celebrate winning the EFL Cup then fine but that's not what being a Man United player is about and that gets back to why Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt and Gary Neville are finding fault.

52:51Mark Ogden:It's why Jamie Carragher will find fault in Mo Salah if he's not doing enough because these players want their team to win and be as successful as they were when they were playing for them. So it's a good thing to have demanding pundits. It's a good thing to have demanding legends because it shows that demanding the club be back at the standards that they expect and that they've fallen from. But Man City haven't had it yet, but it'll come. I think that just shows how difficult it is. You talk about Christian Eriksen there and not being able to celebrate the Carabao Cup or the FA Cup. where the generation of the pundits now have come from, the Carabao Cup or the FA Cup wouldn't have meant much to them because they won 12 Premier League titles, two European Cups and every other domestic cup that was on offer.

53:29Now, it probably raises the question, is it possible for a team to dominate now like United were able to dominate in the 90s and 2000s? And probably not. I mean, you look at even City now, City have won four Premier League titles in a row and didn't win last year and look like they're going to struggle to catch Arsenal this year. It's difficult when you're a player at Man United and those comments from Ericsson kind of prove it. And there was always that story that people at United told about Alexis Sanchez. There is this thing about the pressure on Man United being, is the spotlight on Man United greater than it is on any other club bar sort of Real Madrid and Barcelona?

54:08And there are people at United who will tell you that it is. The Alexis Sanchez one, he came from Barcelona did really well there played in the Premier League for Arsenal again did really well everyone at United thought it was an absolute no-brainer to sign him he came to Old Trafford he failed miserably and there were quite high up execs at the time who felt that part of the problem was that he just couldn't handle the scrutiny and the pressure that came with playing for Man United now it's all well well and good saying that for a player who's maybe come from I don't know Leicester or Southampton or somewhere where they're not used to winning trophies all the time but they were saying this about a guy who's come from Barcelona and Arsenal who'd come to United and they felt still couldn't handle the pressure.

54:46Now that tells you everything about the environment that people think that they've created at Old Trafford. If a guy who's been there and seen it and done everything can't perform, then what hope is there for everyone else? And the pressure and the scrutiny from ex-players and pundits plays into that.

55:03Mark Ogden:I think it's great though. I think it's great to hear these ex-players have an opinion. And I think it all adds to the craziness of the Premier League. And if you're a Liverpool or Man United player, player and you're wanting to be successful it'll be your turn in 10 years time to have that say about all the players that are coming through that aren't doing as well so that's that's the price of playing for a big club and i think play for real madrid barcelona liverpool man united i mean by munich look at the players that they've got look at the ex-players that they've got all the time ollie hernis carl hans rumeniggett all the loto matthias that's the part of playing for a big club you're going to get great former players i mean somebody once said to me an agent of a player said to me he uh his player would sign for man united and he was struggling to basically cope as you said for a better people like Alexis Sanchez he said you have to realize that the Man United shirt is the heaviest in football and I said what do you mean he says you go through that team 1 to 11 every single player every single position has got an iconic former player that you have to live up to so if you're a right back you've got to be as good as Denny Serwin or Gary Neville if you're a goalkeeper you've got to be Peter Schmeichel already in Van der Sar if you're a striker I mean Rude Van Nistelrooy you know Cristiano Ronaldo Teddy Sheringham, Dwight Yacht, Eric Cantona.

56:08Mark Ogden:So I can see the point of the pressure that comes with playing for these big clubs, but that is something that you have to embrace. And if you don't embrace it, like Christian Eriksen didn't, then he's now Wolfsburg in the Bundesliga, bottom half of the table. That maybe is level. So if you've got the mentality to play for a big club, you can handle all the stuff that comes from the side. So it's a heavy shirt, but you've got to deal with it. That's all we've got time for this week. Thanks for joining us. Come back for more Football Reporters next week.

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