The Football Reporters: Could Roberto De Zerbi save Spurs?

23:18James Olley:I will well I'm sure we're going to be asking you again week after week until they're actually are safe. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we're going to be talking about England and their final preparations for the World Cup. A SoFi personal loan is here to help you achieve something once thought impossible, overcoming high-interest credit card debt. Walk the tightrope of your finances with one low fixed-rate monthly payment, no fees required, and as soon as the same-day funding. That's right. Pull off your own debt-defying stunt with SoFi personal loan. Visit sofi.com slash trick

23:50Rob Dawson:to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA. Member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.

24:03Well, we are in the midst of an international break and James, you had the pleasure, I'm not quite sure if that's the right word, of being at Wembley a few nights ago to see England draw with Uruguay. Ended 1-1. Late goal from Uruguay, late penalty by was it Federico Valverde who scored that one? How would you sum up that game? Because from what I've heard, it wasn't a thriller. No, if anyone's suffering with insomnia at the moment,

24:32Rob Dawson:aside from listening to me talk, find the tape of that game and you'll be off to sleep in no time. No, I mean, it was... I actually asked Tuchel before the game about, you know, needing a bit of patience and buy-in from the fans because the last friendly they played against Wales, he was very critical of the atmosphere afterwards. He said Wembley was silent and we needed a bit more support. And it felt like it was going to be one of those games. Wholesale changes, difficult opponents. The March international break is never great anyway because every player is focused on the running for their clubs and what they're trying to fight for on a weekly basis at that level.

25:14Rob Dawson:So, yeah, even accounting for all of that, it was pretty dire stuff, I have to say. I'm not really sure anybody enhanced their credentials. James Garner did okay on debut. I thought Tamori and Maguire at centre-half looked pretty good. But, you know, it was slim pickings, really. And I think, if anything, it's just reinforced in Tuchel's mind exactly what his starting XI will be. and I don't think it's hardly any of those players, if any of them, that started against Euroquite. Yeah, well, Rob, I think of all of those players who did start, someone who will be hoping to be in that starting XI come the summer is Phil Foden.

25:55It's been a difficult season for him on an individual level and, yeah, it wasn't a great night for him, didn't necessarily cover himself in glory the other night. How would you sum up where he is at this moment? You've obviously watched him a lot this season and watched him in his more productive season. So where is he at at the moment and what do you think his chances are of being a real key player for England this summer?

26:18James Olley:Well, to be honest, I think he's actually in quite serious danger of not getting on the plane at all to the World Cup because Thomas Tuchel's got so many options in that position anyway, with Jude Bellingham and Morgan Rodgers, there's Cole Palmer, Ebrecht Chiese as well, who's obviously not with the squad because he was injured. So not only is he in danger of not really playing a key role at the World Cup, I think he's in serious danger of not actually going. And I don't think that his performance against Uruguay has helped him in that regard. It's been quite an odd season for him, really. He obviously had a really difficult season last season and he kind of put that down to a niggling ankle injury.

26:56James Olley:He also said that there were things going off the field that he was struggling to deal with. But we saw him at the Club World Cup in the summer and he actually started to look happy again. He stopped for us in the mix zone on one occasion and said that the new season, so this season was going to be fresh start, knew me kind of thing. And it's just not really happened for him. There was a spell in November and December where he played quite well. I think he scored eight goals in nine games and he started to look like he was getting back to his best. But at the moment at City, he can barely get on the pitch, let alone kind of have an impact in games.

27:27James Olley:And we saw that the Carabao Cup finally came on in the last minute. And Wayne Rooney afterwards called it a charity shut sub, almost like, you know, kind of give him his little one minute cameo because he can get a medal and collect the cup. and that was it because the game was already won. And it did feel a little bit like that. The issue he's got with City is I just don't see him getting back in that team anytime soon because all the games now are going to be so important for City that it's not the time for Pep Guardiola to start chopping and changing. He's been very happy with Ryan Shirky in that position.

27:57James Olley:He's playing quite well. So you're just worried that Phil Foden isn't going to get back in the City team. And if he's not playing games, then Thomas Tuchel would have every right, really, to leave him out of his England squad for the World Cup because he's just got so many other options. And it's a strange situation, really, because there's a piece on site on ESPN.com about Phil and what's happened to him sort of this season. And the way it started is that before the last major tournament, Euro 2024, Phil Foden was the best player in the Premier League and one of the best players in the world.

28:29James Olley:And really, ever since that tournament, it didn't go well for him. His form has tailed off to the point now where we've come round to the next major tournament for England. and there is a real possibility. I just don't think he's going to go. And obviously James will know more about that because he speaks to Thomas Tuchel more than I do and is sat in his press conference. But I do think there's a real danger. And maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing for Phil that he doesn't go when he has a real break in the summer and kind of gets back to his best at the start of next season. But he will be massively disappointed because he loves playing for England.

28:58I just don't see really that he's going to be able to do enough

29:02James Olley:between now and the end of the season to force his way into A, the team and B, the squad. Yeah, James, just to come to you briefly on this, because all players have dips in form, even the best players. Phil Foden's still young. He's won it all pretty much by the age of 25, now he turns 26 before the end of the season. But like Rob said, it's not sort of a three-month to six-month dip in form. It's maybe coming up to two years now, really, since he's been consistently at his best. How worried are you in terms of him going forwards that he can, whether it be in time for the World Cup or not, get back to his best?

29:36Or do you think this iteration that we're seeing of him now is what we should maybe expect from Phil Foden for the foreseeable?

29:43Rob Dawson:I think he's a big concern. I agree with Rob. I think he is in danger of missing out entirely. I mean, obviously, Tuchel has essentially dispensed with the idea that you get picked on reputation. He was very, very clear about that in the way that he's treated some of the other players when he dropped Jude Bellingham. he's obviously not picked Trent Alexander-Arnold now for this squad and and doubled down on that when Gerald Kwanzaa got injured he still didn't pick Trent and so there's only really sort of two elements that of someone's game that can impress Tuchel one is what you've done with England and he constantly references the September October November run how good a feel he felt in the camp with that group at the time and obviously the performances they had perhaps culminating with the 5-0 win in Serbia, which is a superb performance.

30:37Rob Dawson:So he values the group that he had there. And then players who are in form at their club level right now who are pushing to get into that squad. Well, Phil Foden's neither of those at the moment. And as Rob outlined, you know, Tuchel is well stocked in that position. And the only thing that might help him is injuries to others. Eze's missed out on this squad because of injury. Cole Palmer is managing a growing problem that is preventing him from playing 90 minutes regularly for Chelsea. He is a doubt, you know, in terms of his sort of whether he's over that injury, essentially. And we'll obviously the next couple of months, we'll probably determine that one way or the other.

31:19Rob Dawson:So if those two miss out and he has a positive end to the season, then he's probably pushing Rodgers and Bellingham to maybe get in. The fact that he's versatile, he could play off the right or maybe the left, if they want to try and squeeze him in somehow would help him as well. But something significant has to change, I think. Otherwise, Phil Foden is in major doubt of missing out. Yeah, and you mentioned there, James, about the different types of players that Tuchel is looking for, players that have been in the camp previously and done well, players that are playing well for the club. So I suppose someone who doesn't necessarily fit into either of those categories really is Ben White, who was obviously the goal scorer the other night.

31:56He's not been involved with England for a little while. it was maybe a little bit of a surprise that he ended up coming in. The reception that he got at Wembley the other night was not particularly favourable, it's fair to say. He was booed by some of the England fans. I mean, how large was that in the stadium? Was it a sort of a minority or was it a big number of fans booing him?

32:17Rob Dawson:It was a significant number. When he came on, because of the way... It was funny, actually, because they held up the wrong name. They held up the wrong number, sorry. So it was the wrong name when he actually ran on. So it was all a bit confusing. But when he ran on and eventually his name was called, he was booed. But because of that mistake on the touchline, it was a bit, well, who was that for? You know, what quite was that? The remarkable thing was when he scored, he was booed more when he scored. And the stadium announcer tried to do that thing that a lot of teams do where they just say the first name and then hope that somehow the fans are going to sing the second name or shout the second name.

32:59Rob Dawson:And so he's officially Ben Boo. That's effectively what his name was because of how he was treated. I mean, we're making light of it. But, I mean, it was a – yeah, it felt like a throwback, the whole thing really, the whole occasion with just England's underwhelming performance, the paper planes. The first paper plane I saw was 10 minutes into the game. and then that that just that sense of I was going to say disconnect between the fans but maybe it's more you know these these supporters are facing bills of tens of thousands to go and follow their team in the US this summer and they don't take kindly to any ambiguity around loyalty and and that I guess is the question mark against Ben White you know and you're right to say that But White's obviously lost his place at Arsenal for Jury and Timber.

33:51Rob Dawson:You know, when he was asked to call, why did he call White up? He said, well, I saw him play in the cup final. As if he'd sort of gone, oh, this guy plays for England. No, we could play for England. Let's call him up. And he'd seen him play for Arsenal a few days earlier against Bayer Leverkusen. And he's only just starting to have this little sort of flurry of appearances because of injury problems to Timber. You sort of wind the clock back a couple of years under Southgate, post obviously the Qatar World Cup. and he was one of the best right backs in the league. He was playing in a team that was going for the title.

34:23Rob Dawson:He was playing every week. He was Mr. Dependable. It felt strange that he was not in the squad then. And this kind of brings us to the point about Ben White, which for me is that he should have spoken about this before now. Just to recap briefly, he left the 2022 World Cup early for what the Football Association declared at the time was personal reasons. It was since reported by us and a number of other outlets that he had a disagreement with a member of Gareth Southgate's coaching staff. We believe it was Steve Holland. And that was to do with essentially not doing the video work and the off-field work that was expected of everyone in the squad.

35:07Rob Dawson:Ben White effectively said, look, why do I need to do this? It's not like I'm ever going to play anyway. And they said, well, if you feel like that, then why don't you go home? We don't want people who don't want to be here. Off you go. That was the version of that story that was reported and that we were told at the time. Now, there is another aspect of this, which I'm not going to talk about on the podcast, but there was another story, completely different, explaining why Ben White may have left for personal reasons. But the point is that's not in the public domain. It's a private thing. Don't know if it's true or not.

35:42Rob Dawson:It's another, it's a sort of another line of narrative through this, but all these things are floating around because Ben White's never spoken about it. And that to me is a bit of a failure from him, from the FA, maybe even from Arsenal to some extent that nobody in the last four years has said to Ben, go and do a sit down with a, with a paper, with a, with, with ESPN and explain, you know, what your version of events was to tell people what's happened. And because there's this ambiguity about it, and, you know, I must also state that Southgate denied that there was any bust up publicly. He was quite strong.

36:21Rob Dawson:I always remember in a press conference, he was quite adamant that that had never happened. He has denied it. It's never been publicly confirmed. The only guy who can really talk about that now is Ben White. And by allowing this situation to sort of drift, we saw what happened at Wembley on Friday. And I just sort of feel as though if he's ever going to kind of fully move on from this, he's going to need to speak to someone on the record at some point to give his side of the tale. I guess beyond that, the other element of it is whether any of the other players think, you know, do I want to get booed by England fans going forward?

36:56Rob Dawson:Does it create that little seed of doubt in the minds of the players again, that the fans and the team are not quite as connected as they were. Gareth Southgate worked so hard for eight years to reconnect the team. It was kind of broken after Euro 2016. And that is fragile. And that perhaps is something that Tuchel needs to be a little bit mindful going forward. But then again, maybe it's just a specific case to Ben White. Yeah, Rob, I just want to ask you a little bit about that, because as James said, it felt like probably Southgate's greatest achievement, his legacy, I guess, as England boss was that kind of unification, that synergy between the players and the fans that maybe necessarily hadn't been there and I think obviously that was you know the fragility of that was was shown with what happened with Ben White so for Thomas Tuchel again going into a tournament where you know it's as James said it's no small thing the financial burden on supporters who'll be making that trip over there how much of a worry is that do you think that bond between the the fans and and the players and the whole sort of collective harmony of of England as a collective how much of a worry should that be for Thomas Tuchel at the moment

38:00James Olley:Yeah, I mean, I can understand why he may be concerned about that because the one thing, and obviously I've not covered England as closely as James has over the years, but from the outside, it's felt like the one thing that England fans won't accept is feeling like the players don't care about playing for England. And it always felt like that was an issue before Gareth Southgate that you'd get to major tournaments and the performances wouldn't be where they were expected to be. And fans immediately would say, well, they don't care. They care more about playing for their clubs and winning titles at club level.

38:33James Olley:And England really is just kind of, I don't even want to say the icing on the cake, because it's almost like it was just something that had to happen, that they had to go and play for England and they wanted to come back quickly and play for their clubs. And obviously Southgate did a great job of kind of smashing that a little bit and making, I suppose, making England feel more like a club side that fans could get behind. And I imagine that's where this has come from with Ben White, that in the absence of any kind of official line about why he left that Qatar World Cup, football fans decide that, well, he doesn't really care.

39:08James Olley:And you've got these football fans who pay thousands and thousands of pounds to watch England all over the world. Deep down, all they want to do really is play for England and think that would be the most amazing experience in the world. And then when they see a player who gives up that opportunity, particularly at a World Cup, they immediately think it's because he doesn't care. Now, that's not to say that's why that's happened. Obviously, we were never going to know really until, as James says, Ben White comes out and explains that. But in the absence of that, football fans decide that he doesn't care.

39:38James Olley:And that's where the booing comes from. I also think we are in a little bit of a booing culture. This isn't the first time this has happened with England players. I remember Harry Maguire getting booed, playing for England because he was having a hard time at Man United. I think he actually scored a goal at Wembley and got booed quite quickly after that. I noticed that Scotland were beaten by Japan in one of their friendlies before the World Cup. They're coming off the back of perhaps their greatest night ever against Denmark, where they qualify for the World Cup. And then in the next game against Japan, they lose narrowly and are booed by some sections of the fans.

40:13James Olley:So I do think that it's something that maybe football fans lean on a little bit too readily, where maybe they don't mean the boos. They want to express their displeasure, but the boos in football circles means an awful lot more than perhaps the fans understand that it means to players. And I think it's something that Thomas Tuchel will have to address between now and the World Cup because of all the problems that England are going to have at the World Cup, whether it's the temperature, whether it's having fit players, the teams are going to play, all these things. The one thing you can control is the connection between the team and the fans.

40:48James Olley:And really, as a football manager, you need to control everything that you can control to the best of your ability. and perhaps he thinks that it's not important and that the World Cup will be decided on the pitch, which is obviously true, but all these little things matter, all these little narratives around the squad and team matter and I imagine that he's a little bit, not upset is the wrong word, but a little bit conscious of what happened with Ben White and will be conscious that the players who he does take to the World Cup aren't subjected to that kind of thing once they get out there because all these little things do matter and I imagine lots of people listen to this podcast thinking, well, they don't matter.

41:23James Olley:Why do they matter? It only matters the performance on the pitch. I can promise you when it gets to major tournaments and big finals and big games, everything matters. All these little tiny details matter and Thomas Duke will want to control that.

41:35Rob Dawson:Well, I mean, Gareth Southgate was getting, you know, bottles thrown at him for the last Euros. I mean, Jordan Henderson was booed when he came back to play for England after moving to Saudi Arabia. He'd been a prominent LGBTQ plus campaigner and people felt that he'd become a hypocrite are going to Saudi Arabia. You know, you mentioned Maguire there. I remember Maguire getting booed by the away fans in a game of Scotland. And Southgate was one of the angriest I've ever seen him, I think, in a press conference afterwards. You know, just passionate sort of defence of Maguire. And even Tuchel has had this issue.

42:10Rob Dawson:You know, he, after that game against Wales in October at Wembley, you know, he was critical of the fans. And then in the next game, I think it was the next game away in Serbia. I just remember, maybe it wasn't the next game chronologically, but I remember being in Serbia and hearing the fans singing, Thomas Tuka will sing when we won. And it was kind of all in good humour because England won the game 5-0 and they were brilliant. And so Tuka was in a position to sort of be able to laugh it off. And I don't think it was particularly hostile, but yet there's that little bit of an undercurrent of, well, hang on a minute, Thomas, we'll, you

42:51Rob Dawson:And we'll, you know, we'll support the team as we see fit. And so that is a relationship that managers need to manage and make sure they're in control of. And, you know, the US tournament this summer is going to pose a lot of logistical challenges for the teams, but also for those supporters. And, you know, if the teams do fall below par, I'm sure that they are going to resort to one of the few sort of avenues they have to voice their unhappiness, which is to be critical of the team. And I wouldn't do that myself if I was paying to do that. I'd always like to think I would be supportive of the team no matter what.

43:32Rob Dawson:But you can understand it when they do spend that money and they do feel that the loyalty that they show is not replicated by the players on the pitch. So I think it's something that Tuchel certainly has to be mindful of going forward. Yeah, plenty for Thomas Tuchel to consider heading into the summer. We're going to take a short break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about Mohamed Salah and his imminent Liverpool departure. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery.

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44:31James Olley:Well, we're going to wrap up today's show with a little segment on Mo Salah. Beth, perhaps not a massive surprise that he is going to leave Liverpool at the end of the season, but quite a big surprise in terms of the timing. it seemed to come out of the blue for everyone really. I mean just first as a reporter who covers Liverpool when you see that news drop what's that like and how did you deal with it? Yeah well it was actually my first day of annual leave and I just sat down to eat my tea and opened Twitter and there is this this video from Mo Salah confirming as you say what I think a lot of us thought probably would happen that you would leave Liverpool this summer but in terms of the timing I mean, it was very unexpected.

45:14And listen, it's so rare now in modern football for things to be kept under wraps. I remember a similar thing, obviously, a couple of years back when I wasn't covering Liverpool full-time then, but when Jürgen Klopp announced that he was going to be leaving the club and it was just such a bizarre moment. I was working for the Liverpool Echo at the time and this just sense of shock descended on the newsroom because literally nobody had seen it come in. and it was sort of similar with Salah. Nobody was really giving a heads up about it. It was a complete sort of bolt from the blue and that is so rare in football and I think it's maybe a nod to the fact that the club recognised that this was an announcement, sorry, that Mo Salah wanted to make an address that he wanted to make directly to the fans and there was maybe a recognition that he would be allowed to come out and be the first to break that news, which I think was fitting when you consider what he has given to the club over the past nearly nine years.

46:16But yeah, as you say, it wasn't necessarily a surprise. I think there has been a sense all season that this could be his final season at Liverpool, despite the fact that he did only sign a new two-year contract last April. But I think in terms of his form, in terms of how happy he is at the club, he's publicly spoken about being unhappy with his situation with a lack of game time back in December. So it felt like everything was built into a departure this summer. And I think now the club will hope that it maybe has a galvanising effect on him, on the squad, and feeds that sort of determination to finish the season on high.

46:52James Olley:James, before we get into kind of what next and maybe the implications of this move, where does Mo Salah sit for you in terms of Premier League greats? I mean, I saw a lot of stuff when the announcement was made about, is he the best Premier League player we've ever seen? Does he get himself in the top five? I mean, obviously, we've had some great players in England in the Premier League era. Where does he sit for you?

47:12Rob Dawson:Well, I mean, he's right up there, isn't he? I mean, because what he has is the combination of greatness and longevity, which tends to divide a lot of players who have one or the other. You know, they're here for a decade, but they don't necessarily hit the heights that Mo Salah has or they have three or four years of a kind of Mo Salah influence, but then they move on to another team. And so I think the fact that he has both of those, I think Beth will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's Liverpool's third highest goal scorer of all time. So, you know, historically he's, you know, it's not just Premier League we're talking here.

47:51Rob Dawson:We're talking about one of the greatest players in one of the biggest clubs in the world's history. So, you know, he goes into that sort of pantheon of match winners, And also somebody who, you know, last season was just so unbelievably clinical in the way that he settled games. I mean, the amount of games that I obviously didn't see them anywhere near as much as Beth did. But I felt like every time I saw Liverpool, you wouldn't really see Mo Salah for an hour. And then suddenly he'd have one chance or he'd create something. And that would be it. That would be the difference in that game. And to be doing that, all right, we're writing him off as if he's 40.

48:31Rob Dawson:But to be doing that into his 30s in the toughest league in the world is a testament to his enduring quality. What quite has happened this season is probably, you could probably write a separate different book about that one. But in terms of just looking back at his highs, I mean, few players can rival the sustained level of impact and match winning moments that he's consistently been able to produce. He's one of those few players that when he gets the ball, you know what he's going to do, but he still does it anyway. And I think there are very, very few players in world football who have been able to do that so consistently at the level that he has.

49:10James Olley:Well, Beth, on to what's next then. I mean, what do you see as Mo Salah's next move? And I suppose from Liverpool's point of view, how do you replace someone who's been so good for so long? Well, I think that the thing is, from Liverpool's perspective, to start with, they can't replace him. I don't think he can replace Mo Salah. He's been the team's top scorer for, I think, every year or maybe there might have been one year that Sadio Mane might have picked him. But he's been right up there for nine years, scoring beyond 20 goals every single season, which is an incredible, as James said, it's a remarkable level of consistency, longevity, something that I think maybe Liverpool fans have taken for granted because you're just so accustomed to him scoring that many goals.

49:58I think when you look at Arsenal, a team who are probably going to go on and win the league and deservedly win the league this season. But when you think about pure goal scorers, they've struggled at times for goals this season. I'm not sure they'll have too many players hitting that 20-goal mark. And Mo Salah has done that every year that he's been at Liverpool this season. It's possibly going to be the exception to that. So I think replacing him in terms of a direct like-for-like replacement will be really, really difficult. I think Liverpool have been geared around Mo Salah and set up to platform Mo Salah for most of his time at the club.

50:33I think this season has maybe been a season where that hasn't happened and that has maybe had an impact on his output. But I think, you know, they obviously signed two strikers for big money last summer, Alexander Isak, who's missed most of the season with injury, and Hugh Greco-TK. So whether we see maybe a switch in formation maybe next season, whether we see, you know, things shifted around a little bit to platform those players in the middle a little bit more I think it's you know it's been a long time since Liverpool have had sort of a real conventional number nine Bobby Firmino who was fantastic for Liverpool wasn't your sort of out and out striker so I think we might see a little bit of a shift in terms of the focus and who the impetus is on to score goals I certainly don't think they'll be able to bring in a wide player who is scoring you know the same rate that Mo Salah has done for the last nine years but yeah I think in terms of players that Liverpool admire Michael Alise is right up there he's obviously having a tremendous season for for Bayern Munich well you consider would he want to come back to the Premier League this soon would he want to come to Liverpool Bayern obviously in in great form at the moment Liverpool less so um you know the finances involved in bringing an elite player to Anfield again this summer they spent big last summer I think the hope was that they wouldn't have to spend as much this summer that might not quite work out because you know they need the squad still needs a lot of improvement despite them spending close to 450 million so the finances will come into it I think one thing you know positive from Liverpool's perspective is they'll be they'll be taking a significant chunk off the wage bill with Mo Salah going and so that should should free up some room to bring in some some top talent I think from from Salah's perspective that the obvious link is is Saudi Arabia that's where he's been linked to for three or four years now we know obviously the club's interested in him a couple of years back willing to pay 100 150 million for him and the interesting thing this summer is that the club have reached an agreement with him so that he leaves on a free transfer so they won't be getting a transfer fee for him and again I think that probably comes back to to the fact that they'll be you know they'll be free of a considerable burden of wages and the club have probably weighed up that they think that's that's worth the sort of waiving of a transfer fee this summer um so yeah it'll be interesting and maybe the fact that there isn't a significant transfer fee will mean that more clubs are willing to take a risk on him and I think there will be only be a small number of clubs that will be able to pay his his wages that's obviously where Saudi comes back in um I've always sort of thought that the Saudi links as much as obviously you understand you know Saudi will be willing to make him the face of the league and and he's you know totally revered obviously in that part of the world and and would be an absolute superstar over there I think Mo Salah as much as you know he is he is a star of the Arab world I think he's lived a very um westernized I guess lifestyle the past near a decade you know his children have have been born and have grown up over here he's got two young girls and I think that will probably play a part in his decision as well.

53:41I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if he ended up in the MLS. We've seen Messi having what looks like a whale of a time over there and his young family look really happy and settled over there. So I think it will maybe come down to his family a little bit as well. I don't think it will be as clear-cut as he will just go to Saudi. But again, all of Mo Salah's decisions are made on his own terms and announcements made on his own terms. So I think we won't know about where he's going until he is ready to say, right, this is what I'm going to do and this is why I'm going to do it. Because I think he will try and keep his cards as close to his chest as possible.

54:20Rob Dawson:Well, we know Mo Salah's leaving. We don't know if Arna Slott might be leaving. And Rob, I'm curious for your take on Jurgen Klopp's availability at the moment, should we say. I understand that he returned to Anfield for a charity game and credit to him for doing that. But you don't have to necessarily do the amount of press and public exposure that Jürgen Klopp has undertaken in the last few days. Do you think Arna Slopp will be entirely happy with what Jürgen Klopp has been doing of late? if I was him I'd be absolutely fuming because it's completely it's completely unnecessary and

55:06James Olley:completely avoidable it's obviously it's a difficult topic because Jurgen Klopp has come back to be part of a charity event which is admirable and you know completely fair enough but if I was on a slot sat on my couch watching it all I would be thinking why why is this necessary because there's a couple of things with this. Arna Slott has not replaced a manager who was sacked and chased out of town. He replaced a guy who is still a Liverpool hero and will be forever because he decided he wanted to go. I imagine, I mean, Beth will know more about this than I do, but if you polled every single Liverpool fan at the next home game, every single one of them would want Jurgen Klopp back to replace Arna Slott as quickly as possible.

55:51James Olley:and so to have him back and so visible and doing interviews makes that far more difficult and Arnazlott has already got a problem I think with with Xabi Alonso it's something that we discussed last time I think we had Beth on the pod about how difficult that is because you know I don't think Liverpool made that much of a secret that they were interested in Xabi Alonso the first time that they were looking to hire a new manager obviously he's gone to Real Madrid it's not worked out, but now he is available and free. It will be up to him, clearly, to decide when he wants to get back into football.

56:23James Olley:But if you were Liverpool's executive team, you'd be looking at that and thinking, we have an opportunity to hire the guy we wanted all along, a Liverpool legend, with a very defined style of play. It's not going particularly well for Arnaslott. There are fans who are getting a little bit tired of him and want to see a change. It is possible that that happens. As far as I can see, that happens in the summer. So on top of the questions about his future and Xabi Alonso that he's going to get in press conferences in the next few weeks. In the next press conference, I imagine before that City FA Cup game, again, Beth will know more about that than I would.

56:57James Olley:He's going to be asked about Jurgen Klopp. And it's just something that he doesn't, it's just a complication that he doesn't need. Again, it's a very, it's a difficult topic because Jurgen Klopp has gone back to be part of a charity event. And I imagine Arna Slott will sit in front of the press and go, I don't know what you're talking about. He came back to be part of a charity. We all love him. I love him. The fans love him wasn't it great to see him while secretly in his head thinking why did you do it yeah I think you know from from the perspective of it being a charity event Jurgen Klopp has genuinely done and continue to do a lot of work with the LFC foundation so it wasn't sort of just a token gesture he has been involved with with the charity but I'll admit I was quite surprised when it was announced that that he was coming back to be involved um a couple of months back it made sense from the point of view that it was his two former clubs going against each other Borussia Dortmund were obviously the away team so I understood that part of it and from an emotional perspective from the perspective of the fans it would have been great to see him back and to have those moments with him back in front of the Kop and in great spirits and seemingly enjoying life away from coaching but I do think it has probably provided another headache for Arna Slott at a time when he really doesn't need any more headaches and I wrote a piece I've written a few pieces this season about Arna Slott's standing and how he's viewed by the Liverpool fans and I think Rob's absolutely spot on I wrote something a couple of months ago and I said he's sort of he's haunted by the ghosts of managers past and managers future because I think Jurgen Klopp last season you know the fact that Liverpool were doing well and were being successful you know all of the ways that Arna Slott was different from him were viewed as a positive thing and were viewed as you know the fact that he was more sort of quiet more understated I think that was that was held up as being a real a real positive a real asset for Arna Slott whereas this season it's been turned around because Liverpool aren't doing so well to the fact that you know he's maybe not quite as charismatic he's not as outgoing he's not got that relationship with the fans and so I think that sort of spectre of Jurgen Klopp has loomed really large over this season and I think obviously the Xabi Alonso one is the the one that a lot of fans would like they would like him to come in now if he'd be up for it or certainly next season so I think he's in a really really difficult spot on a slot anyway and I think it was maybe a complication that he didn't need although as as Rob said I'm not sure that he would ever publicly admit that but yeah I think it's been a tough season for him and it will be interesting certainly to see how the next few months play out for him as well

59:42Rob Dawson:Well, we look forward to watching Beth grill on a slot about Jurgen Klopp in the coming days Thank you very much to both of you Thank you everyone for listening and we will see you again soon

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