In short
Football Reporters discusses Arsenal’s 4-1 North London derby demolition of Tottenham, Eberichi Eze’s role and his near-move to Spurs, Arsenal’s title chances, Tottenham manager Thomas Frank’s pressure, Liverpool’s 3-0 loss to Nottingham Forest and Arne Slot’s problems, then shifts to whether Vincent Kompany could replace Pep Guardiola at Man City.
Guest backgrounds
Nader Manua (longtime Kompany acquaintance; has known him ~15+ years since Hamburg; former player/coach connection via mutual staff). Other hosts are Mark, James, and Rob (match reporters/analysts; James and Mark attended Arsenal vs Spurs at the Emirates).
Key claims
Eze was “one phone call away” from Spurs; Arsenal moved after Kai Havertz’s serious hamstring injury. Arsenal are “6 points clear” and six-point favorites; title race hinges on mentality after Christmas. Tottenham’s setup was too negative; Frank faces fan pressure. Liverpool’s defense/midfield/attack are failing; Slot not yet under immediate sack pressure.
Notable examples
Eze hat-trick vs Spurs (first in 47 years); Arsenal missing Odegaard, Gabriel, Havertz, Jesus; Tottenham missing Maddison, Kulusevski, Solanke; Liverpool 6 wins/6 losses; Liverpool tracking worst defending-champions stats.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOArsenal's Dominance in North London Derby
1:40 to 3:36
Discussion on Arsenal's performance against Spurs and their title prospects.
“Both Mark and James, you were at the Emirates for Arsenal against Spurs.”
Eze's Near Transfer to Spurs
3:36 to 5:42
Exploration of Eberichi Eze's potential move to Spurs and his impact at Arsenal.
“and much later in the season and, you know, it's only November.”
Evaluating Saka and Arsenal's Threats
5:42 to 9:39
Analyzing Bukayo Saka's performance and the depth of Arsenal's squad.
“And are you surprised at all at the impact that he's been able to have in quite a short space of time at the Emirates?”
Arsenal's Title Race Prospects
9:39 to 14:00
Discussion on whether Arsenal can maintain their lead and win the title.
“But are we seeing enough from Saka at the moment?”
Assessing Arsenal's Premier League Strength
14:00 to 19:03
Discussion on Arsenal's performance and the weaknesses of their competitors in the Premier League.
“it would be interesting to see how Arsenal would have coped with it if that momentum swing towards City would have carried on, you know, closer to Christmas and across New Year.”
Challenges Facing Thomas Frank and Tottenham
19:04 to 22:58
Analyzing Thomas Frank's pressures at Tottenham and their recent performances.
“or is this just a ridiculous early season Nietzsche reaction?”
Liverpool's Struggles and Future Prospects
22:59 to 28:00
Examining Liverpool's recent defeats and questions surrounding their management and tactics.
“They've now recorded the two lowest expected goals tallies of any Premier League team this season.”
Liverpool's Struggles as Champions
28:00 to 29:15
Analysis of Liverpool's performance as reigning champions and potential regrets over player contracts.
“I know Mark has got a piece on the website talking about Liverpool being perhaps the worst reigning champions ever in the Premier League era.”
Historical Context of Poor Champions
29:15 to 32:24
Discussion on historical precedents of poor performances by Premier League champions.
“Liverpool are sort of maybe regretting that that Salah deal a little bit.”
The Value of Spending in Football
32:24 to 34:25
Exploration of how financial investment does not guarantee success in football.
“Well, just on that then, I remember the first podcast we did this season where we all had to pick our champions.”
Show all 15 chapters
Vincent Kompany's Managerial Prospects
36:35 to 42:00
Discussion on Vincent Kompany's potential future as Manchester City manager.
“But yeah, I've known him from when he was at Hamburg and he was wearing the number 10.”
Vincent Kompany's Leadership and Character
42:00 to 44:28
Exploration of Vincent Kompany's character, leadership style and potential managerial role at Man City.
“about Vincent's kind of character and what he's like as a leader.”
The Appeal of Kompany for City Fans
44:28 to 47:26
Discussion on how Vincent Kompany could connect with fans as a potential manager and the implications of his return.
“And the name that they mentioned was Nagelsmann at Bayern Munich.”
Kompany's Tactical Approach and Potential at City
47:26 to 51:06
Analysis of Kompany's tactical abilities and how they might align with Manchester City's style post-Pep Guardiola.
“And, you know, as we can potentially see with Arsenal this year, like maybe this is the end product.”
Kompany's Career Aspirations and Timing
51:06 to 54:08
Discussion on Vincent Kompany's career path, ambitions, and the importance of timing in coaching opportunities.
“But for that, they had to dig in with the players that they have.”
Transcript
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1:23James Olley:Welcome to the Football Reporters. Coming up this week, we'll take a closer look at Arsenal's North London derby demolition of Tottenham and Liverpool's latest slip-up in the Premier League. Plus, Nader Manua joins us to talk about Vincent Kompany and whether he's the man to replace Pep Guardiola at Man City. We'll start this week with some Premier League reaction. Both Mark and James, you were at the Emirates for Arsenal against Spurs. James, I'll start with you as our North London man. Was it a case of Arsenal were fantastic or Spurs below the level that you would expect in a North London derby?
1:57Rob Dawson:Well, it was a little bit of both, really. I know we'll come on to talk about Spurs later on. They were quite passive. They were very defensive. They sort of set up a little bit like a sort of lower table, mid-table team against a team going for the Premier League title. and then it's up, of course, to the home side to break them down. And that habitually, you know, last season was a game that caused Arsenal quite a lot of problems. And, you know, I've said it sort of on this podcast before, but if Arsenal started to click in an attacking sense, then they are going to win the league. Because the question we'd only really seen to this point, the only one they hadn't answered was, couldn't they score consistently from open play?
2:39Rob Dawson:Can they create and break teams down? Or are they sort of reliant on those set pieces? and keeping clean sheets week after week. And I think it was such a powerful performance from an Arsenal team bereft of probably two or three of their starting 11 if everybody was fit. And the fact that Eberichi Eze is the man who made the difference is obviously the narrative around the fact that he almost joined Spurs. But, you know, he probably doesn't play if everybody's fit. And yet he scores a hat-trick in the North London Derby, the first one in that fixture for 47 years. and Arsenal are six points clear at the top.
3:16Rob Dawson:So, you know, it's really, really ominous, I think, for the rest of the league that if Arsenal are starting to click and they're starting to do it without really the one player who tends to stitch it all together, and that's Martin Odegaard, then when they get everyone back, you just cannot see at the moment anybody else having the consistency to stop them. But I remind myself that Arsenal have had these kind of leads before and much later in the season and, you know, it's only November. but they are just clear favourites to win the title now.
3:48James Olley:Mark, did you get a sense that you were watching the champions or champions-elect, so to speak?
3:54Mark Ogden:Yes, this feels like the Liverpool season, the first time they were on the clock, they just asked to look and see head and shoulders above everybody else for different reasons. Obviously, the coaches seem to have finally got it together now in terms of our setter. But like James mentioned, the injuries, and just looking at the players that were absent through injury yesterday, Obviously, Gabriel, Holyguard, Havertz. Kai Havertz has barely played. Jokarez, Gabriel Jesus. I mean, that's a pretty strong five-a-side team, to be honest. But you've got your best centre-half, you've got your captain in midfield, you've got your big money centre-forward, and you've got Kai Havertz.
4:25Mark Ogden:I mean, that is basically the spine of the team. Gone. And they still hammered their local rivals 4-1. And I think they'll go to Chelsea next Sunday with a six-point lead. Now, I fully expect Arsenal to win that, again, quite culturally. So, they could be nine points for the next week if results continue to go their way. So they just look really strong. I mean, they're not exactly, they're not the Arsenal of Vars and Wenger, no, the Invincibles that are tearing teams apart with their flair and their style. They're a different team. They weren't the George Graham team of the early 90s. It's power, it's strength, but every part of the team is really strong.
4:58Mark Ogden:And Tottenham yesterday were kind of blown away. I mean, they had two touches in the top of the Arsenal penalty in the first half and two in the second half. So that shows you how poor Tottenham were. But that was because Arsenal were so strong. You know, back to the original question. Arsenal were really strong. And I think that made Tottenham weaker, but Tottenham aren't a good team anyway, especially with people like Maddison and Kulisevski and Solanke missing. But Arsenal, for me, they'll win the title with ease. And despite the fact they've stumbled at the final furlong a couple of times, I just thought that anybody's in a decent shade to challenge them this season.
5:28James Olley:James, obviously it was Eze with the headline performance. Just from the stories that you were writing over the summer, how close was he to joining Spurs? I mean, was he on the verge of joining Spurs before Arsenal swooped in? And are you surprised at all at the impact that he's been able to have in quite a short space of time at the Emirates?
5:48Rob Dawson:Yeah, I mean, he was very close to joining Tottenham. I mean, he was one phone call away from joining Tottenham. And that phone call was the one that Eze made to Mikel Arteta to say, I've read that you're interested. Are you going to make a move to sign me? And it was such a sliding doors moment because I remember actually Arsenal were holding an open training session that only a handful of journalists went to watch at the Emirates, which I was one. And, you know, you sort of do that as we all do when you go and watch these things. You sort of count the players and you see who's there and who's not.
6:20Rob Dawson:We noticed Kai Havertz wasn't there and sort of just mentioned it to a couple of the club officials who just said, oh, no, it's gym work, I think they said. Oh, he's following a different individual training program or whatever. Of course, it turns out he had a serious hamstring injury and they weren't entirely being up front with the severity of it. Although I suppose they'd argue they didn't quite know how bad it was at the time, but clearly they would have known straight away it was something serious. And it was that Havertz injury that convinced Arsenal to go back into the market. They'd looked to Eze, they considered that and they felt as though they had enough with Havertz being fit.
6:58Rob Dawson:But then, of course, that injury happens. And they know that Eze, as a lifelong Arsenal fan, would love to come to the club. They obviously have seen his quality, one of the standout players for Palace, scored the win in the FA Cup final, all those things. They'd done the due diligence, the background. He was firmly on their radar, but they weren't going to make that move until that Havertz injury. And Eze, of course, in the middle of all of this, was on the brink of joining Tottenham and just thought it was worth a phone call to the Arsenal manager to see if there was interest in his dream move and they decided to go for it.
7:31Rob Dawson:And things moved very quickly from that point. Obviously, Spurs had agreed the fee and the structure of a deal. So, Arsenal could essentially match that. There wasn't really any need for any negotiation. The player terms weren't a problem. So, it all moved very, very fast once that phone call was made and the club had decided to act. But, yeah, I mean, look, I mean, whenever Arteta's talked about Eze, He sort of said, oh, there's a lot more to come from him. And, you know, we've not necessarily seen the best of him yet. And they've been, I mean, he's had a couple of key contributions. He scored against Palace actually already this season.
8:07Rob Dawson:And, you know, he's been influential at times, but he's also been quiet in matches. And, you know, I think they, from the way that they were talking yesterday, I think they see that game against Tottenham as a real landmark moment that he can step up and kick on from there and become maybe now part of that regular starting 11. It's hard to see where he fits in because your two eights are going to be Declan Rice and Martin Odegaard probably every day of the week. Zubermendi's been one of the standout signings as the six and that's your midfield three as they could play out on the left. But Leandro Trossard's been doing very well out there.
8:43Rob Dawson:They've obviously got Martinelli. They've got various options out there as well. Wannieri can play out there. So it's hard to sort of see exactly where he fits in. But at the moment, you kind of can't drop him. And the key thing really is that his contribution is another example of how they don't have to rush players back, which is something that Arsenal were guilty of doing in the past. And Odegaard would probably have played in that North London derby last season had they not had an Eze who could come in. And it means that Odegaard's just had another few days to get himself right and just make sure that when he does come back, he doesn't break down again in another week or two weeks' time.
9:21Rob Dawson:So, you know, yes, there's more to come from him, but it's just symptomatic of the business that they did in the summer, strengthening that squad so much that a little goes a long way from each player in that sense.
9:35Mark Ogden:Jay, just actually, you mentioned the Eze situation then and, you know, where he fits in when everyone's fit. But are we seeing enough from Saka at the moment? You know, three goals and no assists all season. I don't think it was great against Tottenham. I mean, I guess if Saka has a dip or gets injured, then Eze can play on that side where Saka plays. Are we kind of giving Saka a bit of a pass here or does he need to kind of do more to kind of raise himself to the standards he's shown before?
9:59Rob Dawson:Yeah, I mean, he has been a little bit quiet, but there's always so much focus on him. There's this, you know, I think when Odegaard's not in the team, Saka does struggle a little bit more. I always remember Thomas Tuchel when he was Bayern manager, just before Bayern played Arsenal a couple of years ago and knocked him out of the Champions League. He basically broke down exactly how Arsenal played. And he said, you know, they go down the right-hand side with Ben White or Durian Timber and Odegaard and Saka. And they create overloads on that right-hand side. And that's how they become dangerous.
10:29Rob Dawson:So when, obviously, Odegaard's not in the team, it creates a different dynamic. And you just see that Saka's maybe not getting the ball quite as early as he would like. He's not able to take players on quite as much as he would like. But I don't think there's been a massive drop-off. but this is a guy who is one of the best players in the Premier League, is in the middle of contract negotiations to become one of the best paid players in the Premier League and is somebody who's quite openly talked about wanting to win the Ballon d 'Or one day, wanting to sort of be in that conversation with the Vinicius Juniors, the Lamine Lamars, the very very best sort of wingers in the world at the moment and so I guess against that standard he's not quite hitting his mark.
11:11Rob Dawson:But, you know, what does it say about this Arsenal squad that they haven't needed Saka to be at his absolute best and yet there's six points clear at the top of the table. Again, last season, they wouldn't have been anywhere near this. They would have needed Saka to be delivering every game. But I think it's part of the sort of diversification of threat, if you like, that Mikel Artetti wants. He wants threat from every angle and not just going through one part of the pitch. So maybe that's a sort of rebalancing that Saka's had to adapt to.
11:39Mark Ogden:Rob, are we kind of guilty? I mean, I've put my hands up, I've said that Arsenal win the title quite easily, but are we kind of giving it to them on a plate right now? Do you think City could challenge anything, even Liverpool, if they can get their act together? I know they're double digits behind now, but are we kind of just saying, going a little bit early with Arsenal, it's only November, do you think that they are going to win it? Or are we talking about it being a coronation?
12:03James Olley:It's funny, I was just about to ask you the same question there, that is there a way that Arsenal don't win the league? And in my mind, they have got the strongest squad. You've got James there talking about Eze, who scored a hat-trick in a Northern Derby, who wouldn't necessarily start a game if everyone's fit, which clearly points to the strength of their squad. The one question mark I would have around Arsenal is the mentality and whether it turns into a race after Christmas, whether they are mentally prepared or able to get over the line. Now, the one thing that you can say about Pep Guardiola City is that when they get into a race, if there is a title race, they tend to win it.
12:40James Olley:The times that they haven't won the title is when there hasn't been a race at all. There's been a team that's just street clear and City have been nowhere. My concern with Arsenal would be that if it gets tight in, say, February, March, like we saw it in 2023, have Arsenal got the nous to stay in that race and to get over the line? And that's a question that you can't answer until they do it because until they do it, it's always a question that will be leveled at them because they've gone close a couple of times and haven't managed to get their hands on the trophy. They're only going to answer it if they actually end up lifting the title.
13:14So it's difficult.
13:16James Olley:I think the only way that they don't win it from here is if they get in their own way. Obviously, you can't predict whether there's going to be injuries. There could be an awful lot of injuries to one area of the squad and you can't compensate for that. But I think that if the season runs as we expect it to, the only way that Arsenal don't win it is if they start to crack under the pressure a little bit. And it would have been interesting to see what would have happened this weekend, say if City had beaten Newcastle, because obviously, you know, Arsenal have come off a draw with Sunderland. City have then gone and beaten Liverpool.
13:49James Olley:The momentum seems to be swinging towards City a little bit. And then all of a sudden, in the blink of an eye, City lose to Newcastle. Arsenal put in a statement performance against Tottenham and the momentum is back with Arsenal. it would be interesting to see how Arsenal would have coped with it if that momentum swing towards City would have carried on, you know, closer to Christmas and across New Year. And it would be interesting to see if that happens in New Year.
14:10Mark Ogden:We're just talking off the bus because I think that, as good as Arsenal have been, and this is probably the weakest Premier League for ages, I can't think of a title race where the second-best team is so far. Well, there's nobody impressive. I mean, Arsenal have been impressive because they're so organised, so well-drilled. They're not great to watch at times, but, you know, City aren't great. Liverpool have been terrible. Chelsea, I mean, the second round, Chelsea, I've never finished second, I don't think. Even Man Utd have got a chance in the top four. This, for me, is the worst chasing pack, probably.
14:38Mark Ogden:I mean, I can't think well. They probably win Leicester, wouldn't they? I mean, this is not a very strong Premier League. And Arsenal, if they don't win it this year, they'll never win it because this is the best chance they've got because they are so strong at the top and everyone else is so weak.
14:50Rob Dawson:Yeah, I mean, two things have happened here. Arsenal have got a little bit better and certainly stronger in terms of the depth of their squad. but there's no doubt that the rivals are weaker than they've been in the last couple of years. Obviously, Liverpool have fallen off a cliff in the last few weeks. You still think City are the one team that could go and put 10, 12 wins together consecutively and maybe get themselves to a point where they're within touching distance. And I agree with Rob completely that the mentality is the one thing. We did see it when they got into a toe-to-toe scrap with City.
15:26Rob Dawson:that the performances did suffer a little bit from... There was certainly fatigue in the squad, but also just the pressure. You could see it got to them a little bit. But the concern for the rest of the league is they might be so far ahead by March or April that it won't matter. I find myself... It's funny because I went on tour with Arsenal in pre-season and they were very bullish on tour behind the scenes. They felt they'd really nailed the transfer market. And that was before they'd signed Eze. You know, they really felt they'd got everything that they wanted. Mikar Teta was a really relaxed, confident sort of figure on tour.
16:04Rob Dawson:I think he knew, you know, he'd sorted out a lot of the deficiencies in that squad. Yeah, I sort of found myself not wanting to be overly influenced by that in my pre-season prediction. So I didn't go for them to win the league because you don't want to feel like you're drinking Kool-Aid too much, you know. But yeah, it's only the mentality factor. and sort of, I wonder whether, actually Rob, because I wanted to ask you about this, whether Pep Guardiola was starting to try and play that game a little bit with what he was saying before the Newcastle game, when he sort of said the season starts now.
16:35Rob Dawson:It felt to me as much of, that was a message, I thought, to Arsenal and to Mikel Arteta. And we know they're great friends, but still, they're obviously competitors going for the league. Did you feel that was a little bit of a message, perhaps to his own squad as well? And then if so, how much of a disappointment was it that they then go and lose the first game after he says the season starts now at Newcastle?
16:57James Olley:Yeah, I mean, he's had a couple of little sort of nibbles at it. He said before the Liverpool game, I think he said, you can't win the title in November, which seems obvious. But, you know, the inference was that everyone's raving about Arsenal, but they've not won anything yet. And then he has another sort of go before the Newcastle game. The season starts here. It's almost like laying down the gauntlet to Arsenal saying, now comes the hard work. But obviously City didn't hold up their end of the bargain. and they need to go to Newcastle and win that game. And as I said before, it's a weekend where the momentum again has just shifted towards Arsenal.
17:30James Olley:And it will be interesting to see what happens next weekend because obviously Arsenal go to Chelsea, which has become top versus second, and City have got a home game against Leeds. Now, you would expect City to win that game, and obviously Arsenal's game is tougher. So it's a weekend either that Arsenal really put their foot down and show everyone that they really are destined to win this title or that they don't win that game, City win theirs and the momentum shifts. Maybe not very much, but it does shift back towards City. So I don't think we can really make any proper predictions until February, March.
18:05James Olley:And the one thing I would say about Pep, and he has mentioned this a couple of times before, that when Arsenal were close a couple of years ago, they had 50 points after, or 50 odd points after 19 games and Pep referenced it again and again and again. and in that season City were still able to put a run together and chase Arsenal down now you're right in what you say James this isn't the same Arsenal team it's also not the same City team but you'd have to think that that will stick in some people's minds at Arsenal saying that we had this almost perfect first half of the season a couple years ago and still weren't able to get over the line until you actually get your hands on the trophy that's the only way that you can answer that question of whether you're mentally able to do it listen we have to talk about the
18:42Mark Ogden:The other team that's involved in the North London Derby at the weekend, it was a two-team game and it was obviously Tottenham were hammered 4-1. A lot of talk about Thomas Frank being under pressure, which seems ridiculous, but they have got three pretty big games coming up in the league after PSG away, which is a terrible, daunting trip on Wednesday. So Fulham at home, Newcastle away, then Brentford at home. Are we going to talk about Thomas Frank being in difficulty by the time he gets to the Brentford game or is this just a ridiculous early season Nietzsche reaction?
19:08Rob Dawson:look I mean you'd normally say with the the sort of natural life of these things that no he wouldn't be under pressure but it's the fans that are going to put him under pressure and and we we talked before about I mean you know Mark we were at you know a game not that long ago just uh you know the United game where you could hear it then that Thomas Frank was was coming under pressure and and you sort of think well this is kind of crazy that the manager who's obviously been brought in to take this club from a very difficult place. Yes, as Europa League winners, but they finished 17th last season with an imbalanced squad with an imperfect transfer window and who had actually started pretty well, certainly from a defensive point of view, is suddenly finding himself having his substitutions booed and the style questions and whether he's up to the job.
19:57Rob Dawson:For me, I find it, you know, there's often a lot of talk, you know, the media, of the papers, whoever are putting a manager under undue pressure early on. This is coming from the supporters, I think, more than anyone else. And there is a degree of frustration towards him. I thought the way they set up at Arsenal was like, you know, a League One side, a championship side, going to a Premier League side in the FA Cup, trying to keep it tight and nicking a goal on the break or through a set piece. That's not good enough if you're Tottenham. You could argue it's good enough if you're Brentford, but it's not if you're Tottenham in the North London derby.
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20:33Rob Dawson:Yes, you could argue, again, that physicality, trying to match Arsenal's physicality might well be the way to beat them, actually. And I think there's a lot of sense and pragmatism in the way that he set his team up. But the problem is, is that the only thing that matters then is the result. If you do not get a positive result, there is nothing else to recommend you because you've sent a really negative message at the start of the game. You're not going to be playing good football, really. I mean, he left most of his technicians on the bench. He had Xavi Simons, Lucas Bergvall, Archer Gregg playing midfield, Brennan Johnson, all these kind of more sort of creative sort of guile players were not in the team.
21:10Rob Dawson:He'd chosen Richarlison up front instead of Randall Colomawani again for his defensive ability from set pieces. And you sort of think, okay, with an extra, with Kevin Danso going in for the long throws and the three sort of three centre-backs, you could see the argument for it. but A, it didn't work and B, when he tried to open it up at the start of the second half, they conceded within whatever it was, 40 seconds. So, you know, he got his game plan wrong as much as he sort of suggested that there was a lack of aggression in the team and they didn't win their duels and perhaps sort of questioning the mentality of the players a little bit.
21:45Rob Dawson:And there probably was a bit of that, but he just got the lineup wrong. He just got that team selection wrong. And the more he does that in those big games and sort of almost sort of concedes the initiative, it just reinforces the idea that some Spurs fans already have, that he doesn't have the scope and the pedigree to be able to turn Spurs into a possession-based dominant team, you know, an attacking dynamic side that people want to see. And, you know, and we've said on this podcast before, it's easy to set up a team defensively. That's the easy bit. The hard bit is getting them to attack and creating problems for opponents.
22:25Rob Dawson:And I have a degree of sympathy with Thomas Frank because, of course, as we've already talked about, they missed out on Eze, they missed out on Morgan Gibbs-White, they got Xavi Simons and Randall Kolomawani right at the end of the window. Kolomawani's obviously been injured for a few weeks as well. As you've mentioned, Mark, he's missing Solanke, he's missing Kuliszewski, he's missing Madison. So there's a lot of moving parts that create a problem for Thomas Frank. But he's starting to have quite a few weeks to be able to grapple with this and to come up with some sort of solution. And he's not.
22:57Rob Dawson:I'm not a great fan of XG, but their XG against Arsenal was terrible. They've now recorded the two lowest expected goals tallies of any Premier League team this season. And both of those tallies have come in big games against Chelsea and then against Arsenal. and that's not where you want to be against what are supposed to be top four rivals. So it does need to improve and it needs to improve quickly.
23:20James Olley:Well, we'll move on next to Anfield and another defeat for Liverpool 3-0 against Nottingham Forest. I was at a football writers' dinner in Manchester on Sunday night that Arnie Slott was meant to attend to pick up his trophy as FWA Manager of the Year after their title win last season. He obviously decided he wanted to pull out of that event on Sunday morning. and it's probably not unexpected that he would do that, given the scrutiny and the pressure he's under at the moment. Mark, you've probably seen Liverpool more than either me or James this season. What is going wrong at Liverpool? And at what point is Arna Slott's position going to start being questioned, do you think?
23:59Mark Ogden:And like James was just saying about Thomas Frank, it's a crazy question to ask, but I don't think we're there yet. But the way football is right now, it won't be very long. So we've won six and lost six. there's a stat to the runners that only Chelsea and Mourinho back in 2015-16 as defending champions have lost more games at this stage of the season and Mourinho was sacked in December so I don't think that's going to happen with Arnie Schlott but he's got a lot of problems to sort out I mean you know defensively they are all over the place the full back situation they haven't replaced Trent Andy Robertson he's back in the side because Kirk has not been good enough but Andy Robertson as good as he's been probably not the player he was five or six years ago Canarte is terrible Van Dijk is struggling because Canate has been terrible.
24:40Mark Ogden:Alisson Becker's back, but they've really missed him for the last two months. The midfield isn't operating as it should do. But it's sort of front that it's really not working. Obviously, considering the money they spent on Isak and Eketike and Verz, it's just not happening.
24:52Rob Dawson:Other than that, they're great, right?
24:55Mark Ogden:Well, apart from them, but yeah. But basically, Lo Salah, it looks like he should be playing Saudi Arabia right now. He should have taken the money in the summer. Eketike was raising on Eketike being the guy that's made a big difference. He's not scored for nine games in the league. He hasn't scored since mid-September. And obviously, Isak is... Some of the local reporters were getting stuck into Isak in the Sunday papers. So, you're right. Not a lot is going right, but that's been borne out by results. Six defeats in seven league games. That's unheard of for a team like Liverpool. So, Slott has a lot of issues to address.
25:29Mark Ogden:The one he can't address right now is the centre-half situation because he can't get a centre-half in until the window. I don't think that's going to be Mark Guay. I don't think he'll go to Liverpool in January. He brought in Leone, the Italian centre-half, who did his crucial ligaments after, I think, his first or second game. So, Salah hasn't got any options. He has to stick with Canate, but the longer he sticks with Canate, the more his form goes off the rails. So, they're in a kind of a perfect storm right now, and they've got problems, Liverpool. And, you know, at the start of the season, £450 million was spent to basically take them over the horizon.
25:59Mark Ogden:We thought Liverpool were going to pull away, win the title again, the 21st title, take them ahead of Man United in terms of titles won. But right now, you probably have to say that it's a toss for Kyle. He was the 21st title first, Man United, Liverpool. I never thought I'd be saying that in November after they were retiring in May.
26:15Rob Dawson:Wow, that might be the most damning thing you've ever said about Liverpool, I think, on this broadcast. Rob, I just wondered whether you saw, you know, just listening to Mark talking there about, obviously, the drop-off of players like Salah and even Van Dijk, who were sort of obviously stalwarts of this team just as recently as last season. I just wonder whether you see any comparisons between this and what happened with City that, you know, sort of almost out of nowhere, I think at the start of last season, basically everybody predicted City would go on and win the league and then suddenly it kind of all fell apart.
26:49Rob Dawson:Do you see in Liverpool anything comparable to what happened with City last season?
26:56James Olley:Yeah, I mean, the one thing that Pep kept telling us last season was that he felt that they'd got their summer, not their summer recruitment wrong, the way that they went about the summer, that they'd obviously won four Premier League titles and that he thought that he could stay loyal to that group of players who had won in those titles for at least another year. He kind of thought that, well, they've done so much for me that I'm going to stick with them and I'm going to have another year with this group. And it got to around, probably around this time last year where he started to sort of say, I think I've made a little bit of a mistake.
27:29James Olley:What I should have done is maybe instigated more changes than I did. I didn't appreciate that there would be such a drop-off. Now, it was exacerbated last year at City because of the injuries that they had. They couldn't deal with the amount of injuries that they had, and they ended up having to bring academy kids in, the debuts at playing in quite key positions like centre-half, and they just couldn't cope in the end. So there were different issues. But I do wonder, and it's easy. The problem is it's easy for us to sit here now with Liverpool sat in mid-table. I know Mark has got a piece on the website talking about Liverpool being perhaps the worst reigning champions ever in the Premier League era.
28:08James Olley:So it's easier for us to sit here and go, oh, well, I told you so. They should have made more changes. But maybe they shouldn't have been as keen to stick with that core group, with Salah and Van Dijk. Maybe they should have been more open to the idea of Salah going somewhere else. Because I understand why they did it, because they had three big players who were out of contract and they didn't want to be seen to be losing all three of those because it would have been a sign of weakness. So they obviously at the time thought that the deals for Van Dijk and Salah, given that they were losing Trent, were good deals.
28:41James Olley:But I wonder now whether right in the thick of it, right in the middle of the trenches in a run where they don't seem to be able to get out of it, whether there's a few people at Liverpool sort of saying, oh, maybe we stuck with Salah for one year too long. and again it's very very easy for us to sit here I felt the same with with Van Persie at Man United you know there was no there was no real sign that he was going to have this this big drop-off but he did and then all of a sudden he gets to sort of November December people sort of saying oh well you know he should have gone in the summer well it's easy to say now I just I do wonder whether Liverpool are sort of maybe regretting that that Salah deal a little bit.
29:18Rob Dawson:Mark can I just touch on that on that piece on the site do you want to you've obviously sat on the fence as you so often do there by suggesting that they'll get the worst Premier League team champions already.
29:30Mark Ogden:It is based on statistics. I'm not just having a rant about Liverpool. Basically, the three champions that have been basically terrible, let's forget Leeds, because Leeds won the last football league title. They finished 17th in the first Premier League season. The reigning Premier League champions that have really stumped the place out have been Blackburn in 95, 96. They finished 17th in the end, which is pretty good. has finished 7th. Chelsea finished 10th under Mourinho when they were sat. And then Leicester were the worst. They finished 12th. Now, obviously Liverpool right now have hit the 11th.
30:02Mark Ogden:We're talking on Monday afternoon. If Everton beat Man United on Monday evening, then Liverpool got to 12th. So they are tracking to be the worst, statistically the worst Premier League champion in the defence of the title. But this same stage after 12 games, both Blackburn and Leicester have lost six games, like Liverpool. So only Chelsea have lost seven. So they are playing pretty poorly. And listen, I don't think anybody sitting here right now, I think Liverpool are going to finish bottom half of the table. But, you know, look what happened last season, albeit with inferior squads. But Tottenham finished 17th, Man Utd finished 15th, I think it was.
30:33Mark Ogden:Big close when it kind of begins to go into a tailspin. Kind of really bad seasons. And I think the way Liverpool are playing right now, as we discussed, the situation at the back is really, really difficult. If Van Dijk was to be injured, I don't know what they would do. I just don't know what they would do at the second half if Virgil van Dijk was to miss a month, never mind the the rest of the season. Salah's going to go to the African Cup of Nations soon. That might be a good thing. Most Salah going to the African Cup of Nations might actually enable Slott to say to Verts, to Ekotike, to Isak.
31:02Mark Ogden:Look, guys, this is your time now. The grumpy old legend that Adnan's been delivering, he's not here anymore. He's gone for a month. So this is your time to deliver. And maybe this coming month will be the transition period between the great team of Jurgen Klopp to the team of Arne Slott. But I think what we have to say is, most of us probably thought that what's happening now was going to happen last season. they were cool. And what Slott did last year by winning the league was just kind of everyone's scratching their head thinking, how did that happen? But if you look back to the last season, I think they won four of the last 11 games in all competitions.
31:31Mark Ogden:So the drop-off started in March time. They lost to PSG, they lost to Carabao Cup Final to Newcastle. So maybe the signs were already there, and the summer overhaul was a big one, but it had to be done. But I just think it's all conspired to happen at the same time, and the new signs out delivering, that the great players of the past are dropping off a bit of a cliff right now. And I only thought we ought to sort it out. And if we're having this conversation in the middle of January, then he might be under pressure. But at the moment, I just don't see Liverpool being in that crazy scenario of having to look for a new manager right now.
32:05Rob Dawson:I would just like to flag once again the piece that I wrote at the back end of last season, which was, has there ever been a team that is simultaneously both the deserving Premier League champions and also so obviously in need of a rebuild? I got a lot of stick for that online. And look how it's panned out. Rob, carry on.
32:25James Olley:Well, just on that then, I remember the first podcast we did this season where we all had to pick our champions. I think we all, or at least me and James, picked Liverpool to win the league. But both of us said at the time that they've made an awful lot of changes. Not all of them down to slot. There were some changes forced upon him. Are we seeing the issue of too many changes too quickly? Or is there something deeper, do you think, going on at Liverpool?
32:49Mark Ogden:I think this is like the Man United situation the David Mullis a team that's got old too quickly Liverpool have kind of tried to address it by making the changes but they still haven't addressed the players that need to move on Andy Robertson really has to try to phase him out but they phase him out with a guy that isn't ready yet in Kyrgyz he's just nowhere near ready so they made a mistake there you know Van Dijk and Salah I thought both showed signs in the second half of last season that are slowing down but they've got to be new contracts there because like you say Rob At the end of the day, they couldn't lose Trent, Salah and Van Dijk.
33:21Mark Ogden:It would have been terrible. So it's just everything's coming together in a perfect storm for Arne Slott and he's got to deal with it.
33:29Rob Dawson:Yeah, it was too much flux, I guess, in one window. But it is easy to say that with hindsight. I would just sort of slightly look at this differently and say that as much as Liverpool fans won't like this, what's going on there is actually a great advert sort of flying in the face of the conventional wisdom that if you spend a lot of money, success will follow. You know, it's something quite reassuring, I think, just about the game in general, that in 2025, it's still not a case that the Premier League champions can throw almost half a billion pounds at their squad, and they're not automatically better.
34:06Rob Dawson:You know, there is something to be said for an alchemy, a coaching, almost an ethereal kind of quality to it of, that magic of how things can come together. And that it's not just a case that if you throw endless amounts of pounds at this, you will be successful almost in spite of itself. There's something to be said for that, if we can finish on some sort of romantic note.
34:30James Olley:Well, it's time for a quick break. When we come back, we'll be talking about Vincent Kompany and the possibility of him taking out from Pep Guardiola at Man City. The FIFA World Cup 2026 is back, America. and that means it's time to let the snacking begin. This summer, Lays is inviting everyone to jump on the bandwagon. Oh, you don't know the rules. You don't know any of the players. Doesn't matter. The bandwagon is for everyone.
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35:40Mark Ogden:So we have the classic Champions League classic suite, Arsenal versus Bayern Munich, probably the best two teams in Europe right now. I'd love to be coached by the best up-and-coming young coaches in Europe right now, Mikel Arteta and Vincent Kompany, which got me thinking about who should be the next Man City manager after Pep Guardiola because obviously Arteta worked alongside Pep for three years at City and Vidi Kompany was Pep's first captain, a Man City legend, now making his way in management with Bayern having spent time at Anderlecht and Berlin. Now, we've got Nader Manua to chat about, Vinny, because you go back quite a long way, don't you, Nader?
36:13Yeah, we sure do, yeah. This is a guy that I've known for, I think he's coming up to like 15, no, to be fair, it's more than 15 years now. And it's interesting to see the sort of arc that he's been on because I think what some people forget was the fact that he was signed before the takeover happened. So he's almost part of a different group of players, but then he was so good and significant for the club that he now falls out on this side of things as an icon for, say, for the newer ownership. But yeah, I've known him from when he was at Hamburg and he was wearing the number 10. That's right, Vincenzo Kompany was wearing the number 10.
36:42And to add to that, he was actually playing in some ways like a number 10. I remember it was him and Raphael van der Vaart with Nadja de Jong behind them and I thought, wow, this guy's all right. Because we all knew him from, say, football manager and all that stuff. But yeah, to get a chance to see him play and then spend a few days with him through a mutual friend we have, who actually is part of his coaching staff now at the moment, Flora Bear and Galula. He was good. And then before you know it, he's at Man City. but even his first bit of Man City was riddled with injuries a little bit and significant injuries which he was trying to force his way through but we didn't see the best version of him but as time passed then he settled in and he settled into being a centre-back and not just a centre-back one of the best ones in the Premier League I think the rest of it kind of speaks for itself doesn't it?
37:23Mark Ogden:Yeah I think we'll talk about you know companies his character and his credentials in a minute but just you know the premise is Pep Guardiola his future and then none of us know Pep Guardiola's going to leave Man City he's been there for almost 10 years now. And he could be there for another 10. He could be there for another 10 months. We just don't know. But as it stands right now, we know that a few kind of contenders have fallen by the wayside over the years. Patrick Vieira was a player that was, as a manager, that was kind of tipped to be the next Man City manager. That hasn't happened. People like Brendan Rodgers, I know Andona Iriola gets a mention as well.
37:53Mark Ogden:But I think we kind of agreed, Nathan, that Vinny right now is putting himself in a great position to be the next Man City manager if it's the time he works out. Yeah, I totally see that now. I'll be honest, I was... So I'm biased and obviously I believe in him as a coach, but I think it was going to be a harder sell if, for example, he would have become the next Man City manager after leaving Burnley, you know, because that jump itself almost feels a bit too big. I think from when he started off at Anderlecht, I believe, and then he goes to Burnley and he does well in the championship but then struggles a little bit in the Premier League, which is understandable given the fact that, you know, it's Burnley in that situation.
38:29And I think himself and others probably say that they were probably promoted a year or two too early, which seems like a crazy thing to say, but that is a sentiment in terms of the squad building that they had. But then he goes to Bayern Munich, and he goes to Bayern Munich in some ways if somebody expected to fail, because he apparently wasn't their first choice, nor the second, nor the third, in some ways, maybe not even the fourth. But instead, he's helped them retain their title last year, taking it back from Leverkusen, who obviously had that amazing season. But as well as that, he started this year, and I think they won 16 games in a row.
39:01And I think for most of us who are casual observers of football, you think of Bayern Munich and you think of the German league and say, well, that must be something that happens all the time for them. But it's not. We're talking about a record which has existed for decades. And you can see the way he's getting the team to play. You can hear about the way that he's managing the media as well, having to manage the board. And being the head coach of Bayern Munich is one of the toughest jobs, not just in Germany, but I would argue in world football. So for him to be thriving in that environment, I think that was like almost the final check for me to say, well, yeah, this guy can definitely do this.
39:33And obviously he's still young. I think he's still technically in his 30s for a few more months at least. But it feels like he's ready. And I think for the way that football's going, I don't know if you'd agree, but like younger managers aren't being sort of looked down upon the same way that they were maybe 10, 15 years ago. And somebody who's about to reach into their 40s seems a lot more appealing, especially because you look back and people like Arteta and others have managed to do that.
39:56James Olley:Mark, let me just ask you one about this because big clubs will often tell you that they put a lot of effort into succession planning they want to have a plan for their managers going forward but often with this kind of thing and Nadim mentioned it in the column that's on the site that timing is everything that you can have the best plans in the world you can look at data and things and decide the fit that you want for your manager but really nothing beats that timing and if the timing is right that's when you end up getting these big jobs.
40:29Mark Ogden:It is, yeah, and it is all about timing. Like Nathan said, you know, 18 months ago, Vinicum was never getting an on-city job, but, you know, 18 months, two years on, and I guess he's a front-runner. I think Mikel Arteta was obviously a candidate, but I just don't see Mikel Arteta leaving Arsenal because he's the face of Arsenal right now, and Arsenal are a historic club, biggest club in London that have got, obviously, a platform to go on to do bigger and better things. So I'd be staggered if he was tempted away from Arsenal not around City, despite obviously the riches that City can offer. But, you know, City for me are probably the best-run club in the country, if not the best-run club in Europe, albeit the world, you know.
41:04Mark Ogden:So I'm sure they have a plan. And they may surprise us. I mean, Liverpool surprised everybody by going for Arna Sla. I don't think anybody would have called that one. So City may have somebody up their sleeves that they know is coming in, that they know is the guy that's going to replace Pep Guardiola. They may already know when Pep's going, but I don't think – I think only Pep knows when he's going. He probably doesn't even know that yet. so it's a tricky one to time but I think one thing that kind of struck me when I was speaking to Nadeem he made the point that when you're playing or managing the biggest clubs if you're at Liverpool or Man United there's only kind of a Real Madrid that can tempt you away because you're playing at the biggest and the best anyway Vincent Kutton is at Bayern Munich biggest club in Germany or the biggest clubs in the world but the line that Nadeem came out with was that Man City is Viniciel Madrid and I understand that because his wife and kids are from Manchester that he's been probably Man City's greatest ever captain.
41:55Mark Ogden:So it would obviously fit for him to go back to Man City. And I think there's a great story that they tell us about Vincent's kind of character and what he's like as a leader. I mean, I saw him in the press conference in Paris after the PSG win a couple of weeks ago. I was so impressed by the fact he comes in, he speaks, he takes questions in French, in German, in English. He tells his media officer, now I'll text him more questions. So the persona is very impressive, but I wanted to know what he's like as a warrior, as a character. And the story that Nadeem told me about his occasion against Samuel Eto 'o was a good one.
42:31Yeah, people obviously have to go and read the piece itself. I don't want to give too much away, but yeah, it's very much a Vincent Company story. And once you read it, you'll be like, yeah, that's exactly the player that I saw from his years at Man City and elsewhere as well.
42:43Mark Ogden:Obviously, do you think he's got the character to take the pressure of being the next guy in at Man City? I guess it's like following Klopp at Liverpool or following Strijd's Virgs at Man United. Yeah, absolutely. And those jobs, they almost feel like they're impossible, but football will continue to move on. You know, you look at, say, Arsenal now, and it's taken a long time, but Arteta has been at Arsenal for a long time now, and you can see him being there for a long time to come, which kind of feels like an Arsene Wenger type in some ways. And I think if he does... And to be fair, I've got to back up the point that you've said, because there'll be some people who say, why would you leave Bayern Munich for Man City?
43:15And in some ways, in terms of scale of a job, I get it, Bayern Munich, an absolute European powerhouse, domestic-like kings. There's so much pressure on that. But people are motivated by lots of different things. And for him, his family's from Manchester. He spent a lot of time in his life in Manchester. So you can see the appeal of that job in itself. So I think it is going to be very, very interesting to see what happens from a timing standpoint, what happens if, say, the job was dropped on his toes now, because he is somebody as well that does believe in loyalty. you know for him as a player for him as a as a manager and so on like it's a big deal and the job that he's doing at Bayern I think he'll feel that it's not done yet because it's great that he's won the league back in history every other Bayern Munich manager has won the league before I think maybe in the last say 10-15 years you can almost be defined by the managers have won the Champions League so does he stay until that job is done if that job will ever be done or is it a case of he's always going to have one eye on say the place that he is probably is a footballing
44:12James Olley:I mean, it's a good point that Nader makes about, you know, why would you leave Bayern Munich? But I remember having a conversation with a couple of people connected with City a couple of years ago. It was a time when Pep, there was doubt whether he was going to sign a new contract. And the conversation turns to, you know, who would you get? You know, who could possibly replace Pep? And the name that they mentioned was Nagelsmann at Bayern Munich. And the natural reaction for us to sort of say, well, he's a young coach, he's got this fantastic big job at Bayern Munich. Like, why on earth would he come to City?
44:41James Olley:And they kind of said, well, you have to understand that City now is the place to be for managers. They can offer managers conditions that almost any other club in the world can't offer. And you just have to ask Pep Guardiola about why he's been so successful, it's his. Because the conditions that he's been able to work with, whether that's a budget, whether the freedom to have a say in kind of recruitment, working with the sporting director, whether it's Cheeky or Hugo Viana now. So whether it was Vinson Company or anyone else, that when it comes time for City to replace Pep Guardiola, they will back themselves to go and get their number one target, regardless of whether they're in charge of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, AC, any of these big clubs in Europe.
45:20James Olley:Because of the status that City have and what they've been able to do for Pep Guardiola, the success that they've shown that they can give to these managers, they'll back themselves to go and get anyone. And obviously, it's not as much of an issue with Vincent Kompany, is it? Because he's obviously got that connection with City and their fans. And I wanted to ask you, Nadeem, just in terms of City and their fans, say it was to be Vincent Kompany, how do you think that would be received by not so much the club but the actual fan base themselves? I think it would be incredible, to be honest. As far as the type of moment or signing, whether it's managerial appointment or whatever, that a club and its fans could only potentially dream of, especially if it's to end up being successful.
46:04Because I think most fans want to have somebody on the side who's relatable. They want to have people on the field who are relatable. You know, that whole drive towards academy people who've had experience and so on. And that in some ways would be outside of, say, the last decade that Guardiola's given to Man City. Like, that is essentially almost like a utopia for them. Because here is a familiar face who means so much to the club through his playing times from him lifting the Premier League trophy in 2012. If he can then be on the sideline knowing that, and the fans to know that he has that level of desire and passion about the football club that they do, I think that goes a long, long way.
46:37So if he was to be the person that came in, don't get me wrong, he'd be a very, very tough job to follow in the boots of Pep Guardiola. Wherever he's been has always been very, very tough. But I think he's definitely somebody that's capable of doing that. And also, maybe I'm wrong here, but I think one of the reasons Michael Arteta has done so well at Arsenal is because at the start, he was afforded more time because he has a connection to the football club. And I think as a consequence, if Vincent Kompany was to be the next guy after Guardiola, if things weren't perfect from the get-go, I think he would be afforded more time because I believe, again, that they'll understand what he needs to do and what he wants to do.
47:11But they'll know that he has a care for the club that maybe someone else might not have. So instead of the next manager being, relatively speaking, more like an Unai Emery, you know, maybe it's more of like a Mikel Arteta in the fact that, you know, he's played for the club. He understands it. And he's going to say, just believe in us, believe in us. And, you know, as we can potentially see with Arsenal this year, like maybe this is the end product.
47:31Mark Ogden:And obviously, if company came in, he'd be perceived by the fans as one of our own. And if you're one, one of their own, you get more time, more buying because the fans want to see the local hero doing well. It all adds together, doesn't it? Obviously, we talk about his character and his track record, his past, but from a football perspective, he's coached three teams now, Anderlecht, Burnley and Bayern Munich. I guess each one has been a new hunt into a tactical approach. If you went to Man City, I mean, Pep's had so many tactical changes over the years, but would his game plan, would his approach suit the squad he's got?
48:06Mark Ogden:But would it appeal to the supporters? Would it appeal to the ownership? Does Vinny have the game plan to take on Man City after Pep? Yeah, I think so. I think he absolutely does. But I think, so Pep has managed over a thousand games now. He's seen so many different types of games and so on. And he's seen his team, for the most part, be like the protagonist. And he's enjoyed that part. And every so often, there's a gritty performance, which Guardiola will enjoy as well. But I think Vinny, I think he loves the sort of dogfight part of things as well. And I think he loves the Premier League for everything, whether it's the long throws, whether it's the set pieces, whether it's the nice bit of play, false nine, wingers, like a left foot winger on the left, that type of thing.
48:44Like he loves all that stuff. So I think from my perspective, like to see how you do at City, I think you look at the way that he sort of set up his buy-in side and it's not just one rigid system, which means that we'll only get one thing. The outcome that he wants is to be able to control games of football and score tons of goals and not concede too many. but in a way whereby they take humongous risks and as a consequence getting sliced open every couple of minutes. That's not the case. I think it requires bravery but then also the way he looks at games is he tries to think how the opposition will play against you and then as a consequence give the players solutions to try and break that down.
49:19And I think in the Premier League that variance in terms of how teams will go up against you is key if you can have the right personnel and the right understanding to try and break that down. Because essentially if you're going to win a league title you have to find ways every single week. like no two games are ever the same. So I think he will do well. He wants to see attacking football. He wants his strikers to be scoring tons of goals. He wants contribution from elsewhere. He wants to be dangerous from set pieces. And he wants to try and be as solidly, as solid in defense as possible because, you know, he's vinting company.
49:46So yeah, you look at the Bundesliga now and obviously Bayern Munich have a lot of talent, but they scored the most goals by far. And I think they've conceded the fewest as well. And there's some players in that team who are playing some of their best football in their careers to date. so I think some of that comes down to the coaching comes down to the methodology and the plan he gives his players because they all believe in it and we can see that they're very successful with it as well
50:08Mark Ogden:You just mentioned earlier on that Nader about he might want to stay at Bayern until he wins the Champions League because that's what Bayern Munich managers are defined by the top of the league stage right now and I have to watch something against Paris I think that they have to be classed as if not the favourites one of the favourites because they've beaten Paris Saint-Germain that they're actually reigning champions in Paris and they're out of 10 men so Arsenal's a big test on Wednesdays to kind of whether Bayern are the real deal but do you think, first of all can he win the Champions League goodbye in the season?
50:36and if he did, what would that do for him?
50:39Mark Ogden:would that be like, there you go guys I'm on my way now, or there you go guys I can't leave you anymore it's a great question I think obviously they are capable of doing it I think some of the teams that will end up in the top 4 or 5 in this league phase now you know that they are capable but then in the second half of the season it comes down to timing it comes down to like forming those key moments injuries and so on because many a team started off really well but then sort of faded away like an example is Liverpool last season for example so I think they are capable of doing it but it is very very tough very very very tough and I think themselves and Arsenal right now I think as you start the conversation with I think they're probably two of the best sides in Europe at this moment in time and it's to a certain extent not even that close because you back them to go up against anybody and get a result so I think the fact that they went away to PSG they went down to turn and they showed the grit to be able to win that game, I think that is a big deal because more often we're seeing Bayern have more of the ball, create more chances, and just have the players to go and just win games of football.
51:40But for that, they had to dig in with the players that they have. And it seemed like the players enjoyed it, the manager enjoyed it, and obviously the result is a big part of that. But if a team can battle like that and they can have the flair and sort of attacking prowess of like a Kane, Luis Diaz, Michael Elise, Nabrys and so on, then that's a really ominous sign because it shows that they are drifting towards being a very complete side.
52:04James Olley:Nadim, can I just ask one final one on Vincent? You obviously know him better than anyone. What kind of personality is he? Is he the kind of guy who will have his career mapped out in a way that we've seen players map out their careers recently? Or is he more of a timing guy that he's happy to take whatever's in front of him and he'll just make decisions as and when they come to him? I think in some ways he'll have ideas. He'll plan for his side and he'll plan for his side to be successful and to sort of maximise their potential. But in terms of opportunity, you know, you can't decide when that's going to come because I'd imagine for him, as is the case with pretty much everyone else that was paying attention to the situation a year and a bit ago, having the season that Burnley had that led to relegation probably doesn't lead you towards managing Bayern Munich.
52:50So I think if he would have had that in his plan, then everyone would have said he was crazy at the start of his time in the Premier League with Burnley. But I think there'll be places around the world and around Europe and the world that he wants to coach. I think he'll want to test himself in the toughest leagues in the world and do it in a manner where, you know, it doesn't just get given, if you know what I mean. So I think somewhere within his mind, I think he'll have a plan to come to the Premier League. I think he will because I think he loves the Premier League. He loves to play in it.
53:20even to this day, you know, somebody that's probably still watching it and he sees the talent and he recognizes so many teams, so many people from it as well. So it means something to him. So I think that plan will be there, but this is the most important point for me really here. He's still so, so young that sometimes we try and rush people to take some of these opportunities. Like when the last time this was being discussed, I think when the season started, maybe Roy Hodgson was still in the Premier League and Roy Hodgson was literally twice the age of Vincent Kompany. So if you think about the fact that your career could be your life lived all over again, then maybe when the timing's right, he will come.
53:55But for my sake, I think while he's doing as well as he is now and continuing to improve, obviously I don't want to see Pep Guardiola leave. I think he's my favourite coach of all time. But if there's somebody to replace him, to hand the keys over, hand the Manchester City keys over to someone, I think that's somebody that will look after the club and potentially try and bring it back to his glory as well.
54:12Mark Ogden:I thought for a minute that you suggested Roy Hodgson for Man City, Nathan Brown. on that note it's a fantastic week of Champions League football ahead Arsenal will be Bayern top of the field back next week probably after Chelsea Arsenal which is a massive top of the table clash so thanks for your time and we will speak to you soon
54:45Rob Dawson:Storm. Zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine, and immunity support. Storm. Energy for life.
From the publisher
Mark, Rob and James break down Arsenal’s big North London derby win over Tottenham and Liverpool’s latest slip-up at the hands of Nottingham Forest, before Nedum Onuoha joins to explain why Vincent Kompany is his ideal successor to Pep Guardiola at Manchester City.
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