Trump Defends Infantino

27:01Nowadays, it's a red card straight off the bat. Yeah. Right. You see how McMahon rode that challenge? Right. So basically, proper footballers understand that. And so you see that challenge there. You see how McMahon rode it. So before he gets hit, he knows it's coming, and he's already off the ground. He's got none of his body's touching the ground. That's where the trouble starts when you start breaking ankles, breaking legs, all that kind of stuff. So McMahon's rode that challenge. And Vinny also knows now he can't do that again because he's already done it. And people like Vinny would do it every single game at least once.

27:39And if he didn't get booked and got away with it like that, they were like, OK, I need to watch, particularly in a cup final. So the problem is the lower you go down in the level of quality and the level of football brain is when all the trouble starts because players don't see it. You know, you'll hear us talking about, well, if you stand off this guy and let him play, then he'll hurt you. But when you don't stand off him, he can't hurt you. And that's a different level of player. You know, people like Zidane, I'm talking about the best. People like Jan Moby that I played with, it didn't matter how much or short a time they had on the ball or little space, they still saw the pass quick enough and they still got to pass off before anybody would get near them.

28:22So when Vinny's going around doing that, because you could, as you said, you never even got booked, you were allowed to do that then. But the better players, like you see how McMahon rides the challenge. The better players know it's coming. And it's not that you can get out of the way completely, but you can get out of the way enough that you don't get hot. And McMahon never got hot. He got hot and played on. So mentally, does that change things at all? As you say, you know these tackles are going to come. You have to change your style of play at all? No, Vinny's the only one that has to change there.

28:57Right. That's the thing. So when Vinny's doing, you try to do it, yeah? Yes. He's got to make sure that he doesn't get sent off and he actually hurts you so that it actually does affect the way you play the rest of the game. But a proper player like my man, he now realises that Vinny can't do that again because if any does that again, he probably would have got sent off. As I said, you always got one. So if it wasn't intimidation, how did they beat you? Well, the beat is because we actually scored. We went one up and the referee called it back because he didn't play advantage. They had one free kick, one free kick in 90 minutes and they scored with a header and we weren't at our best and didn't really create too much.

29:42And at that time, Wimbledon was sitting sixth in the First Division, which is now the Premier League. So it wasn't like this was a bunch of farmers from down the road who were thrown together and played against us. They were sitting sixth in the old First Division, which is now the Premier League. So there weren't any mugs. And Vinny, in terms of being a football player, what he did, he did a fantastic job for Wimbledon and all the teams he played for because he was wholehearted. He laid down to people. He put people off. and he would win the ball back and give it to the others to go and play.

30:15So, you know, it wasn't a mug, but as you'll see, I mean, again,

30:25you know, running around doing that doesn't make you hard, man. Frank, what was it like in those days, receiving these sort of tackles?

30:37That was part of the game, unfortunately, But I follow the documentary of Vinny because I'm friends with Vinny. And I learned how to know him better. I played the first game with Chelsea against Wimbledon at home. And we lost 4-2. And I remember him talking a lot. I remember being on the goal line, trying to save the goal. And somebody came and instead of taking the ball, headbutt me. And I had a bum like that. And they scored the goal. and Vinny came to me and said, welcome to England, Frankie. Or maybe he said Frenchie. I don't know what he said. But I started to like him because I followed him.

31:18And as Stevie said, you could see him coming. You could anticipate. And that wasn't really an issue. He was trying to intimate you. And I remember like maybe seven months after, we played semifinal of the FA Cup at Highbury. And he played in the middle. He couldn't touch the ball. And he said after this carry, he said, that was the worst game ever. I was running after Zola Di Matteo. We knew him. We learned how to deal with those players. So it was a good pitch. Can you imagine when it's a bad pitch? And we saw against Manchester United, the bad pitch. Those players are unplayable because they destroy everything.

31:58But as part of their game, you have to respect that. That's their strength. And I respect to those players because that was a lot at that time. Of course, nowadays, that guy doesn't play five minutes. He doesn't even play two minutes like we saw in the FAQ final. But that was his game. It was planned. It was part of the tactic. It was hard to cope. But, yeah, you could see him coming. You could jump. Not keep your feet on the ground to make sure that if he tackles you, touching you, you fly. But you're not injured. And that would be fine. So, that was hard. but the guy is funny. He's like in his movies, he's really funny.

32:39He was absolutely crazy, but as a crazy guy, and I played with Dennis Wise, who played with him and won that FA Cup against Stevie. They were mad people. They were bad people down the street. They were bad people on the field. They were just bad people. But at the end of the day, when you know him better, you respect them because they're good guys at the end of the day. there's not a player that played with any team with any who didn't love him because he got everybody going constantly, not just in games but in training and he was the guy that got everybody going and wound everybody up he was the one that was doing all the shouting and all the talking and all the myths now around particularly that cup final how we were intimidated out of it before the game started I mean absolute that is absolute nonsense but the truth of the matter is that got the rest of his team going that's that's where the benefit is right it's not that it affects proper players yeah or anybody who knows what they're doing it actually it gets his own team going now what's interesting obviously the documentary focused on on jones but he wasn't an anomaly this was very much football back in the day there was a few of them and what what's really interesting is when you speak we were speaking to Santi when we were in New York to Jürgen Klinsmann as well talking about the greatest of all time and obviously Messi and Ronaldo in that conversation but they're saying but it's a different sport it's different now compared to Maradona and Pele what they had to face the challenges that they had to face and it is true it's completely, it is black and white yeah you know, there was an art and a respectability about kicking people back then as daft as that may sound there was a way to do it professionally and it was accepted to the point where if you actually were on the end of it and got caught you understood that it was your fault for putting yourself in that position wait wait wait explain that to me so there's a 50-50 ball the way to do it is you look as though it's going to be 50-50 and just as you get in there you pause for a second and let them get there first and then you lift your boot up and then you get them.

35:01Which is a red card now. Which is a red card now because you've got... Yeah, VAR. Back then, that was accepted behaviour. And as I said, if you were on the other side of that and got done, you understood that a lot of the blame was on you for letting yourself get done and putting yourself in the position to get done. That was professionally accepted and it was your fault for getting done. Not the other guy for doing you. That's the mentality. That's nuts, Frank. That's the mentality. No, that's mad. But I remember, and you talked about Jürgen Klinsmann, and I played against him when he was in Monaco against Strasbourg, and I knew what to do with him.

35:39And the first 10 seconds of the game, I came and I tackled him. And I said, it's going to be like that for 90 minutes. Be ready. I would have played against Mbappe right now, O Messi. I knew how to do it with our football. I knew that nowadays you cannot do that, of course. And it's better. It's better. He protects players and everything. I remember Maradona breaking his leg with, I think it was his name, his go-go chair, I think something like that, when the guy tackling from behind. That was awful. We saw Pele getting injured in 1966, not winning in third World Cup because of an injury. Those guys weren't protected.

36:15It's why, for me, they are the goats of football because they had to be nasty as well. I remember playing with Zidane. I can tell you, you play with Zidane or you play against Cantona, you can come to him. They're ready for you. They're going to elbow you. Play against Alan Shearer. My nose remembers that. That's what it is. That was part of the game. And we enjoyed it because that was a real fight. I remember David Batty and Denis Wise, Chelsea Newcastle, they ended up in blood, in blood, kicking each other, fighting and finishing the game and hugging each other. That was English football. That's why I love the English football.

36:54I wasn't ready for that. I had to learn. But the only games that I was watching was the FA Cup final. So I saw everything, TV, blah, blah, blah. They were amazing people. They were warriors. They were fighters. That's why I love the English football, because that was insanely interesting and so fast. So it changed. And maybe for the best, for the players, for their health. But in terms of suspense, in terms of physical aspect of the game, we lost almost everything. I played with a guy called Graeme Souness, who was one of the greatest players, who was one of the nastiest. A guy that nobody wanted him to do with because of his reputation.

37:42But everybody respected him big time. Right. And I didn't think there was anybody that I'd rather not face than him until I heard them. I can't remember exactly what it was on, but he was talking about an Argentinian called Daniel Passarella, centre-back. And he went, I was having nothing to do with him. Really? And I thought, wow, how hard and nasty was this guy if Graham didn't want him to do with him. You never got sent off though, Stevie, huh? Nope. So what challenge do we have here? I think we got a photo of you back in the day, Stevie, making a challenge. Just take a look at who this is against.

38:19Look at the face. It was coloured. I don't know why they put that in black and white. That's another one. Yeah, the first one's classic. Yeah. That's exactly what I described to you. That's exactly what you were saying. You get there just after the guy you're going up against. Because you don't... See, here's the thing. Particularly when you played in Europe then. So that challenge, the first one you showed there I'm saying is a classic Excuse me, I guarantee that's a European game And so you had the mentality See when you're playing in the domestic league If you're playing against Vinny You know what Vinny's going to be trying to do And you know what he does Frank knows he's going to have to look out for Shearer's elbows So you know what's in front of you So when you're going for a challenge As you're running You're figuring out who is it Where are you, can you do them Can you not?

39:11Are you going to get away with it? When you're in Europe, you don't know who you're playing against. So you can't take a chance. So I had no idea what that guy was going to do. And Stevie on top of it. And so that was it. The refereeing was different. So English club weren't ready on top of it. They were good, but the referee were stricter in the rest of Europe. So if you play against Juventus, like we saw the pitcher, and you had a French ref. On a tackle like that, a ref could have given you a red card. Where in England, we play on. You know, you play the ball. Ah, unlucky. And the problem again, the problem again with that is, is that the game's going so fast when you're on the field.

39:54It's against Spartak Moscow, by the way. There you go. You're right, yeah. Yeah, I remember it. The game's going so fast on the field that, you know, we would sit here and go, well, you need to know that the referee's different and you need to know that it's not a usual referee. but that's easier said than done so in the heat of the moment a situation arises where unless I do what I'm going to do I might get done you really don't have time to go well I need to think twice about this because referees from France you know what I mean so I remember specifically I actually remember that that was at Anfield and I remember after it happened I thought oh shh but it was too late and you got away with it I got away with it yeah uh this is did you injure did you injure a player because i played 17 years and uh i'd never injured anybody so did you not with a bad tackle listen that guy i remember the guy getting up and let's just say he had a bit of a lump okay and that affected him for the rest of the game but i never did that to anybody and hurt them badly what what and you kind of explained this I suppose a little bit.

41:06What struck me watching the Jones documentary and watching clips on YouTube of 80s football, how did everybody not get injured all the time? Because these tackles were horrible, yet it seems that the instinct was to get up and get on with it, and it seemed to work. Well, you were just totally run it off. I mean, that was it. That's the 80s parenting. You go, Ronnie, let's see. You go, hey, you run it off, Sean. Yeah. Go away. Frank, did you injure anyone? You said you didn't, no. We saw a challenge here from you on Andrew Cole. A little double swipe. He got out of the road, but... I touched the ball, so that was okay, you know.

41:51It's all coming. It's funny. He saw me coming, but... Yeah, I played the ball. I tried to intimate him, that's for sure. That's for sure. but I wanted him to make sure that he knew that I was here and I was fine with that you know the tackle but also you have a Beckham Sheriff over here over here he's always there or he was always around but but yeah that was and I was okay because I actually always tried to play the ball I was sometimes intense but on purpose to make sure that the the striker knew I was ready for the fight but never try because i respected too much people football players on top of everybody and you don't want to injure anybody uh it's why i'm fighting for that story that we talked last week about somebody being injured in in brazil and you should be uh in a band for the the time that guys come back uh but uh um i always try to make sure that my tackle was hard but not terrible in the way that you were going to break a leg or injure somebody.

43:00It's interesting you said that you were hurt anybody ever. Here was the thing particularly when you were playing in friendlies or bounce games or anything, you probably have heard people saying make sure you challenge the way you normally would in a game. You know, you turned around and said, well, how do people not get injured? And there's absolutely no way to explain that to anybody because nobody we don't know either and i once challenged a guy called tom sunday i was playing for scotland against norway and tom never played again he did his knee on the challenge and a hundred percent it was just a challenge okay it wasn't one of those malicious no no malicious it was just two guys went straight and smashed into each other and unfortunately tom never played again and so how do you figure out how that happens to him but then a challenge that you just showed yeah the guy just has a limp for a bit yeah frank it's interesting just uh off point slightly we saw you there with andrew cole and arguing and the referees in the middle of it nadam brings this up and he's saying what frustrated him as a player was when the referees were pally pally pally with like the big players like you know it'd be bex it would be gigsy it'll be this sort of thing that sort of conversation when you were just very much felt secondary from a man who was supposed to be objective how did you deal with that because you must have seen it like that Manchester United team were so famous, kind of the darlings of England at one time or another, and here you are a Frenchman coming in.

44:31Yeah, that was hard. That's a hard part of the game that we had to suffer from. And especially when you are from abroad and you come and you play against the captain of England and you play against famous players from England, you know that it's a lose-lose situation. So you have to be perfect. You do your tackle, you shut up. If you take a yellow card, you don't say anything. You don't respond to anybody. But you feel it unfair. And it's what happened with me and Alan Shearer when he broke my nose twice. And the ref said, play on. And I was bleeding. And I said, how can you say that? You know, that's insane.

45:07You know, I don't bleed. I don't lose blood on my arm. You know, somebody kicked me. But that's what it is. And especially at that time. I remember Tony Adams. We all do respect. You know, the guys knew that he was the captain of England and he was pushing Marcus or whoever John Luke Caviali control with his chest and the referee was saying play on and there is nothing you can do about that There is nothing much you can do about that. You know, you're gonna be punished as soon as you do something like them So you try to be smarter in a way Than the ref but it happened to me that bad bad words with referee I said one time to a referee to go home I said please go home We're going to deal better without you You're putting a mess in the middle of things Mr LaBeouf shut up I said I'm not shutting up You're doing stupid things You're whistling for nothing Go home we're going to do better I got a yellow card of course You see when all that stuff goes on There's all kinds of professional things that kick off from that So you've got Beckham All pally pally with the referee So what you do is as soon as you see that you see the referee giving it pally pally you're straight over to him going hey by the way I hope you're not going to turn that on us so then what you're doing is next time one of your players makes a challenge you're putting pressure on him to not boot you or give a foul against so there's all kinds of games going on from the first minute to the last minute very good boys thank you very much for indulging me I suppose we were talking about Vinnie Jones we have to talk about who had the best Hollywood career and it's probably Jones, isn't it, Ovala Boeuf?

46:47What's this one, Frank? That's a famous play. That's better. I prefer my picture. Oh, Christophe. Yeah, that was a play called Boing Boing. It's been played like 20 years in Paris and I had a chance to play that one. I enjoy myself. Oh, my lovely wife. Thank you very much. These are very strange pictures we've chosen here. Good job as a waver. There you go. Lockstock. Lockstock's very good. Did you enjoy Lockstock? Yeah, it was good. Good movie. Good movie. And I'm sure Frank's plays are great. Very good movie. Yes. All right. Well, thank you very much, boys. What's going on now? Extra Time is available over on our YouTube channel.

47:34Honey, did you invite the Minions over? Well, you know how we talked about getting Wi-Fi from Xfinity? Yeah. I ordered it this morning. was online in minutes, then they showed up. So they just came over to use the Wi-Fi? For what?

47:50Better not to know. Get online in minutes with same-day Wi-Fi from Xfinity. Plus, lock in your price for five years and see Minions and Monsters only in theaters. Xfinity, imagine that. Restrictions apply. Not available in all areas. Learn more at Xfinity.com slash same-day Wi-Fi. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it.

48:22Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. That is it. That brings us to the end of today's show. Thank you very much for joining us. More chat. I reckon more journeys down memory lane on Extra Time, which is coming up next. as Frank Leboeuf returns.

48:46Welcome into the latest edition of Extra Time. Stevie's here, as is Frank Leboeuf. Stevie, will Arteta need to play more on the front foot this season so he doesn't discourage his attacking players and they don't see his defence-minded tactics as being stale?

49:04Listen, I think we'd all love for Arsenal to open up a bit more, but I somehow don't see how they're going to change an awful lot, the way they play. They were quite open in the first half of the season, weren't they? They were better to watch. Yeah, when it came to push, push came to shove, they reverted. And I would suggest that there's a good chance that that might happen again. There's no doubt he'll probably want to play the way they did the first part of the season. But when things change and things are not quite going smoothly, then you kind of tend to revert back to type. So that's probably what he'll do.

49:38Frank? On Arteta's defence, I would say that it happened and it worked at the beginning of the season because Saka and Odegaard were on fire on the right side and as soon as Odegaard went down physically and Saka got injured, maybe Arteta had to change his mind and the tactics because he didn't have the player that he needed to be more offensive. So maybe that's the reason why he changed his mind. And maybe that's a hope for this season. If Saka is at his top and the rest of the team follows. Frank, start bench or drop these legendary French forwards in their prime? Benzema, Henry, Jean-Pierre, Papin.

50:34I will start Karim Benzema. I think Karim Benzema had everything. Maybe not the pace of Chirin Henry, but he had everything. Tactically, physically, technically, he was very clever. And what he did for Real Madrid with Ronaldo. and after Ronaldo left, that was simply amazing. So we start here and... Oh my God, I will bench Thierry Henry. And I will drop Jean-Pierre. Jean-Pierre was a great finisher, but wasn't influential in the game. He was just there to finish. He was a great captain, great guy. I love him. And he improved so much coming from Bruges to Marseille, where at first he was shooting everywhere, became one of the best guys, got the Ballon d 'Or, of course for those who are interested about that, played for Bayern Munich at the end of his career.

51:29He was a great guy but comparing to the two others, that was for me a different level. 100%. Are you happy with that? Benzema, Henri? Yeah, Papin was just a goalscorer. Just the best goalscorer at the time but a goalscorer. It's a super cup this week, Stevie. Who's playing in it? PSG? Yes. I had to look it up as well. I couldn't remember. Look at this face. Oh, erm... Yeah. It's a Europa League, Gwyneth, right? Yes, exactly. Don't know, I can't remember. Who won the Europa League? Aston Villa. Aston Villa. Aston Villa is who they are playing. Is there a big fuss about this in France, Frank? Excuse me, I didn't hear what you said.

52:18It's okay. That pretty much sums it up. I'm just checking when the game is. Is it tomorrow? Or is it? Yes, it is tomorrow. There we go. Can anyone guess where it is? Saudi Arabia? No, I know. Not Saudi Arabia, no. China. Somewhere in Asia. No, no. It's in Austria. Turkey. Austria? Austria, yes. There we are. That's a strange one. There you go. How important is it? Only if you want it. Right. Yeah. all of you won it is it more important for Aston Villa because they don't have many opportunities to win this you're probably right yeah yeah you're probably right with that but for PSG yeah Frank thoughts well it was important for me when I won it against Real Madrid with Chelsea yeah so that was very important you know you play against the winner of the Champions League Real Madrid in Monaco that was great you know and we won 1-0 so that was very important for me especially when straight after the World Cup because he's a 98 so that was a great game to play but yeah it lost a little bit of this sparkle let's say and people they changed their mindset about those supercups It's more a money thing.

53:45Yeah, a little bit. Never had a sparkle, Frank. Stevie, which of these 100 million buys has the highest probability of ending up as a legend in their respective clubs? Morgan Rogers, Jan Diamande or Elliot Anderson? Ooh, that's a tough one.

54:25That's a tough one.

54:30I mean, I mean Diamande, if he... If he reaches what he looks as always capable of, then because he's playing for Real Madrid, I think straight away that gives you more of a name. No question, 100%. Okay, Diomande? I would go with Diomande. Frank? The problem is I don't know if Diomande is going to play. That's the problem with Real Madrid. You can't spend over 100 million. Even if you're Real Madrid, he's got to play. You've got to be in the else on the right. You know, so far from what I've seen, Morgan Rodgers showed sometimes skills that I rarely see. I rarely see it and it's why I'm going to put Morgan Rodgers right now on top of Jan Diomande because we didn't see too much of Diomande because he's very young.

55:30For Frank, how long does it take for players to get back to the flow at the start of a new season or does it happen naturally?

55:41Well, the thing is, most players, when they're professional, they start running before starting with the new season with their club. It is what I was doing for 15 days before. I was running, getting my cardio back. But when you play games, you need to play friendly games because it's where you can calculate your lack of fitness and sharpness. And it goes as much as you play games and you feel that all the feelings are coming back. But it takes almost 10 days before the beginning of the season. So let's say if you have a normal preparation, a month to get back. How does a coach know if a player is ready or not?

56:36Well, it used to be the coach used to do it by his eyes, basically. Not anymore. I mean, now there's all these calculations and they've all got the packs on and the heart on. I mean, so it's all scientific now. But basically it was the experience of the coach's eye. and judging on what they've done previously to what they're doing now. And if they weren't doing the same, then they had to do more. It was all in the coach's brain. One last thing, disappointing news for both of you, in case you didn't see extra time yesterday. Everyone was asked who would be their two housemates they would live with on the ESPN FC panel.

57:18Neither of you were chosen for specific reasons. Your hygiene was questioned, Stevie. Why?

57:26I can't really argue with my track record. And Frank? The two what? The two what elf? So who? Did you call me an elf?

57:38No, I'm listening to you. So who would be their two housemates? So neither of you were chosen. Stevie was dismissed because of his hygiene. You were dismissed because you would talk too much. Oh, okay. It's hard to argue with those two things. Yeah. Yeah. You, because you cannot be serious, so I'm not picking you as well. I would say, I would say, Ali and Craig. That would be fun.

58:13That would be a very nice reality show. I think that would be lovely. Imagine that. There's only one double bed.

58:25Who would you have, Stevie? Who would I have? Yeah. I think Shaka's a given, isn't it? Shaka's an absolute given. Who would it be? I lived with Kay before, so I bet the devil you know. I'd have Kay and Shaka, I think. Ali, a bit on the edge. Robbo, always on the edge, very much. I think Kay would keep... Macca. Macca would be good. Yeah, definitely, actually. Macca would be all right. Yeah, Maka and Kay. Maka and Kay? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good mix. Yeah, because Kay's really sensible. She would keep us in line. Right. She also likes to laugh and to night hurt. Yep. So, yeah, Maka and me and Kay.

59:08There you are. And Frank, Ali and Craig. I'm sure there's another house they're building down the road. That is it. Thank you very much. ESPN FC returns to your screens tomorrow, as we'll be reflecting on that big game in Austria as PSG take on? Filler. Yes, there you go.

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