USMNT Reach Round of 16

0:02That's the sound of zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine and the power to burn body fat. Storm, energy for life. Storm Energy Blend helps boost metabolism, which in combination with exercise and a healthy diet helps burn fat. This product alone does not produce weight loss. Individual results may vary. Coming up, the USA are through to the round of 16 in a night of mixed emotions. We'll break down the controversial red plus look ahead to the next opponents in Seattle against Belgium. Then Harry Kane saves the day as England sets up a mouth-watering tie with the hosts in Mexico. ESPN FC is next.

0:46Hello and welcome into the latest edition of ESPN FC. There's been so much talk about this expanded format, but the round of 32 has been delivering so far. Kay Murray, Ali Krieger, Shaka Hislop and Stevie Nichol here in the studio. And of course, only one place to start. The U.S. men winning a World Cup knockout game for the first time since 2002. 2-0 it was over Bosnia and Herzegovina and the celebrations have started. They look great for their win as well. And there is a good feeling right now ahead of a big weekend. Happy birthday, America. Plenty to celebrate right now. Let's get to some of the reaction in the papers.

1:28The New York Post saying red, white and through. And we also see the US team knocking out Bosnia and Hertha Govina. We must welcome in Jermaine Jones to talk more about this. Jermaine, what a night it was. What a result it was for the boys. Yes, it was an amazing result. I think we all were not surprised because we saw already a couple of good games from the US team. And yeah, I was most surprised with Bosnia really not getting into the game. And but I would say the U.S. played an amazing game. Ali, what a night. It was incredible. And I think just like Jermaine was saying, they had two incredible games in the knockout and then move into this, sorry, in the group stage and move into the knockout rounds and had a complete performance, had maturity.

2:14Obviously, the red card was unfortunate, but they they had the resiliency. They had the urgency to want to stay in the game. and they got the second goal even down a man. It was incredible to see the progress that they've taken from the historical games before and previous tournaments before to now having just a complete team. And the maturity that has evolved has been incredible to watch. Stevie, straightforward win for the US. I'll tell you what, every single question that has been put to them in this World Cup, they have answered it and more. and the biggest one of all. Even though you're winning a game and you go down to 10 men, what are you made of?

2:56We've been talking about how great they've been going forward, how the press teams. Now basically it was about defending for your life and they absolutely defended for their life. So far, they've answered every question whether it's going forward or whether it's defensive. We've got some, go check. I will say, well, Stevie's right, they're defending for their lives. Even at 10 men, it didn't feel like a pop, boss performance. I thought the US still played on the front foot, took opportunities to get forward when they arose, and looked a better team in actual fact. And I think there's a lot of credit to that.

3:30You're 1-0 up in a knockout game. You go down to 10 men. Natural inclinations are to drop back, defend what you have, soak a pressure, see how they last 25 minutes or whatever it was, and hope that that gets you into the next round. But there was never that approach from the US. I thought they still played as attacking football as you could hope for, as you could expect. Got the second goal with a brilliant free kick from Malik Tillman and fully deserving. You could say at that point they were more deserving of that goal, more so than Bosnia-Herzegovina at the same point. So they were 1-0 up because of a Flo Balogun goal.

4:07But then they went a man down because of this action from that same man, Flo Balogun. In the 63rd minute, it was a step in action here and he received his marching orders for it. Mauricio Pochettino waded in afterwards after his player was sent off on what he thought on the decision that sent the US down to 10 men. He said, for me, it's never a red card. It's a normal action in football, fighting for the ball and your feet land. No, let's welcome in Andy Davies, our VAR expert. Andy, for you, did they get the right call on the night? Hi guys, no I've got to be honest, I agree with Maurizio Poticcino, I think it was a really poor decision, it wasn't a challenge for the ball, Balagan just put his foot down onto the ground and he landed on the Bosnian guy's ankle.

4:57We've seen a similar situation that ended in a red card in the Champions League this season with Lloyd Kelly where he's jumping in the head of the ball and landed on the guy's ankle when he was sent off. I I think in real time, it's just a normal action. It's just a normal football movement. And I think it's just a really unfortunate situation. The guy got caught on the ankle. And the intervention for the VAR, I think, was a really, really poor one because what he's done, he's watched the video in slow motion. He's seen the ankle buckle, and that's where they got the red card from. You hear a lot about this, Andy, this whole watching the video in slow motion and watching it in real time.

5:29Can you just give us a little bit of context for people at home as to why people talk about these actions in slow motion and in real time? I think if you watch any situation in slow motion, you get a totally different picture to what it is in real time. If you look at the actual, the advice in protocol of VAR, you're not supposed to look at normal challenges like this in slow motion. These, that's only supposed to be looked at when you're looking at point of contact on a serious foul play challenge. So I think by looking at this in slow motion, it looks a million times worse. It looks a nasty contact on the guy's ankle, a hundred percent.

6:02But when you look at it in real time, it's just not a foul. it's a defender doing his normal football action on the football pitch and it's just a really unfortunate situation. And yet, Stevie, you think it was a red card. I don't understand this. I mean, I don't need it. What other evidence do you need? You look at the state of the guy's ankle and you look where Balogun is. Listen, football players absolutely 100 % have to know where they're putting their feet and where they're going to land. It's self-preservation. You don't run around with your eyes shut hoping that you land properly. You actually consciously are always thinking about where you're landing.

6:38So, listen, whether he means it or he doesn't mean it, he has gone down the back of his leg and landed on his Achilles heel. I mean, which part of that is okay? I mean, you've got to be accountable for your actions, whether you mean it or whether you don't. And again, that picture, you can't really turn around and say, well, it looks worse. It is worse. It's worse. How bad is that? that's not acceptable. If players go around doing that, then we're going to let them off with it? No. I'm sorry. That's a red card. How did you see it, Jermaine? Yeah, I'm not agree with what Steve said because when you look at the situation of that movement of Baligan, I would say they're going into a 50-50 connection with the other player and I try to just try to step on his feet on the ground and he in his in he steps on his on his leg so in and I think the consistency in general I'm I I'm not a fan of the VR in general because everything you look at the in replay in slow motion looks worse than you see it in real play and I always say let the let the referees make their decision on the field how they see it and if he don't see it then there's maybe not you should not call somebody in and give him the pitches because I always go back to if you played this game you understand the situation sometimes yeah there can be tough fouls when you see the guy in front of you and you pull through with your leg and you let your feet go up over the ankle there's clear situations let's turn it around to the foul of Messi what he did and he walked away with nothing so there's always that where I say like the consistency has to be you know that you cannot punish people or teams and then other teams could not punish for the same situations.

8:28I was seeing these images of Messi in the first game. That was a lot made of that. He didn't get a red flag for this. Well, Balogun had Messi on his jersey just for a laugh. Well, I have a question for Ali Krieger here. Are you with Jermaine Jones on this decision or are you with Stevie Nicholls sat right next to you here in the studio? Stevie, he's going to dislike me today. I honestly think, you know, it's tough because I don't think it's intentional. Obviously, he doesn't mean to do that. He's trying to set down to receive the pass and I don't even think his eyes are in that direction. He wasn't even looking there and I think it was just a reaction to try to get in a position to receive the ball.

9:03I don't think his eyes were even looking in that direction. So it's just unfortunate. I think it's pretty harsh. I think a yellow would have sufficed. But seeing the picture itself on a still photo, yes, of course it looks terrible. Shaq? I don't think it was the right card. I think when you have two players going for a ball in the air, there's contact Inevitably, you have to come down at some point. And if you land, as Balogun did, on the ankle, I think that's a natural part of the game and has to be accepted as much. I don't think these slow motion photos are any help or kind of reflect the context of how it happened.

9:41And I've used this example before. I'll use it again. Let's say I jumped ahead a ball. And unbeknownst to me, somebody falls on the ground and I land two-footed on his chest. you can't freeze that photo and say well you're two-footed him in your chest you you can't that's a natural part of the game and I felt in this instance that was also a natural part of the game I think the difference between while I thought since we're talking the Messi incident I thought that was a red card the difference is Messi's not jumping Messi's chasing somebody and comes on the back of his ankle so I felt that those are two very different circumstances and while you could look at the stills and draw, well, similarities, the context of it was totally different.

10:23Andy, do you feel better that it's only Stevie who disagrees with you? Well, I think it was Stevie who said the Lloyd Kelly one wasn't a red card in the Champions League this year. I can't quite remember. Which one? Lloyd Kelly. Steve Carey remember what we had for breakfast yesterday, Andy. I definitely can't remember that. We played the Champions League. Yeah, yeah. I think, listen, when you're talking about the guys that have made it up, When you're moving normally on a football pitch and you jump and you land, you're not intentionally trying to foul anybody or hurt anybody. This was just two players competing for the ball.

10:55There's no intent. He's not challenging for the player. He's not gone in with a disregard for his opponent. It's just a complete accident. And as Jacques says, you set a really dangerous precedent by saying these sort of situations, the red cards, because these situations can happen anywhere on the football pitch. Yeah, but one thing we do know is that it means Jermaine Flo Baloghan is not available for the game against Belgium. So how does Mauricio Pochettino replace him? Oh yeah, it will be a difficult one. But I think there will be, maybe you have to switch a little bit, have to figure out if you maybe put Christian in front as a nine, but let him play as a Fels nine.

11:31The question is if you want to put Pepe in front. I think he will find a solution. I think this next game will be way anyways, the strongest game we have to play. and I think so far we saw a lot of good games but we not achieved anything so the real game is starting now and if we get that knockout game and we win that then we can talk about yes we have a proof we are better than the last generations and all that stuff because till now yes we played good games but really nothing is achieved so let's see what Pochettino will bring on the field so it's Belgium in the round of 16 for the USA next up for them.

12:11No Flo Balogun in that game as documented. These are the previous results in the round of 16 in FIFA World Cup history, all of which the US have lost. It was obviously not in the expanded format back then, except for back in 2002, the famous Dos Acero against Mexico. That was a World Cup and it's 24 years on and these men have achieved what those latter day players did too. Next up though is Belgium, so we are going to take a look at them on what was a dramatic win for them coming up next on ESPN FC.

13:06As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by.

14:05Belgium pulled off this World Cup's biggest comeback win. It came over Senegal and they won it 3-2 after a late penalty, deep in added time of extra time. But the stats show that Senegal probably should have won this game. It all came down to the dying moments. But was it a penalty? Belgium awarded it after a VAR review, 125 minutes making it the latest goal in the history of World Cup finals. but did Lamine Cameron's right leg catch Uri Tillerman's left boot? VAR review there. Andy, what would you make on the call here? Well, I can get it and understand it if it was given in real time by the on-field referee, but I don't think there was enough in the challenge to be given as a VAR overturn.

14:50I think there was contact. The defender doesn't play the ball. He does make contact at the back of the calf of Tillman. But ultimately, I'm surprised it went to VAR. when you're talking about a situation in such an important time of the game, I don't think it was a VAR intervention. I think Senegal can feel really unfortunate that they've been gone against in that situation. So I'm totally conflicted here, by the way, Andy. So how on the one hand can we say that he's caught him in the calf, but then it shouldn't be a foul? How's that? That makes no logical sense to me. How's that possible? When we talk about intervention, we're talking about clearing of it.

15:28it's clear and obvious errors, Steve, aren't we, in terms of a VR intervention. And at this World Cup, we've seen a really high bar in terms of when the VR get involved and when they don't. There was contact. You can't say there wasn't. But ultimately, was it enough to be given a re-referee in terms of going to the screen and looking at it on the field? If the referee gives it, I can buy into it. I've got no problem with it, but I just don't understand why it was a VR overturn. Right, so you have a problem that it went to VAR. However, when it goes to VAR, are you saying that it's a foul? Now that you've actually made that decision to go to VAR, the referee surely has to give the penalty, right?

16:04Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I think once the referee gets sent to the screen and he's seen the pictures of the contact in the back of the leg, I think there's only going to be one outcome. I just don't think there was any need for BAR to get involved and ask the referee to go and really look at the situation. Obviously a big moment and a game-defining moment, Jermaine. What did you make of it?

16:25Look, in the first place, I looked at it and I said, as in real life, I was like, it's a little bit soft. Then, yes, then again, we talk about it. We go to the VR, we look at the videos, and then you see in one angle, you can see that he get hit on his calf. The question is then, is that hit so strong that he has to go down? Then, yeah, it's difficult to say. Like, yeah, you see that he get hit, but he goes just the same like with Kane when he goes down. Like, he gets a little bit touched, but he clearly goes down, and he wants to get a penalty out of it. So, and it was not a foul. So it's difficult now.

17:00And I think I'm rather a fan of the VR because I always said that, like, you know, back in the days you had the situations and now it comes that we had discussed about stuff. Where is like, is it a foul? Is it not a foul? The referee on the field, he maybe don't see it. He's maybe seen it. Then he gets over called from the ring, from the people back in the studio. and that's just for me like where I'm like okay then you're waiting for for minutes till the decision comes out and and I think that breaks the this game you know it's not good for the game and in I really personal I hate it right little switch up on the glasses there Jermaine we saw that one after a VAR interview yeah we saw those mirror ones changed Ali you're a defender yeah I just think one players just have to be smarter in the situations I'm looking at the photo the still photo and and you you make it back there but you have three other defenders surrounding you plus the six that drops in I just think you have to be smarter in this situation because you know as a forward or a midfielder when they get into those situations of course they're going to be a bit dramatic of course they're going to try to get that call because they know that this potentially could happen as a PK no matter if you touch it them slightly or not I just think he could have been a lot smarter in that situation where he did actually have cover who was coming across because they were really organized in that situation.

18:17And so I was really, yeah, I thought that was a tough call and upset that he made that decision to go down and try to tackle and make a dream play. Shaka, this was heartbreaking for Senegal. Were they robbed? I don't think so. I thought it was a penalty. And I'll go further and say I thought it was a good use of the VAR. I will say, at first look, in real time, I thought no penalty. I thought Tielemans was trying to let the ball run across him and kind of play for the contact. That ball wasn't really in playing distance. And so no penalty was the right decision. But then you look at the replays.

18:55You look at the video. You look at the photo behind us. The ball is an inch away from Tielemans' foot. So it's very much in playing distance, which is not how I felt seeing it in real time. So the ball was there to be played. And Kamara commits to the challenge. And while the contact may be slight, Tielemans is in position to play the ball. Kamara arrives slightly later. Slightly later, but he catches the back or backside of Tielemans' left foot. And once he makes that contact, then, yeah, I think the referee is well justified, or VAR is well justified to call on the referee. And once the referee sees that, I don't think he had another decision to make but to point to the spot.

19:37Could it defend Ali's spot on? Defender's on the wrong side. And when you get caught on the wrong side, if you're going to make a challenge, you have to get 100 % spot on. And he didn't. So I think it's a great call. OK. Something else we saw in this game that we wanted to bring to the panel, especially as them all being ex-players. Those sat with me here in Jermaine, of course. Uri Tielemans and Leandro Trossard getting into it at the second half water break. Really were a little bit frustrated with each other, it would seem. However, when it came to Uri Tilleman's 2-2 equalizer, the assist, Leandro Trossad.

20:17So we want to talk about these moments. Is a lot made of it? Is this normal? Are these the things that we see in games like this? Yeah, of course. I mean, I think this is nothing to be worried about. This is healthy competitiveness. And they're winners. They're playing at the highest level. They're so experienced. They're extremely talented. They want to carry the team and create these moments of brilliance, which they ended up doing in the end. So you can be friends now after the game and back. But this is how teammates are. This is a part of the game, and I have no issue with it. Did you ever have a moment like this, Jermaine, where you end up fighting with one of your teammates, but by the end of the game, you're celebrating with one another?

20:58Oh, yeah. You know, I always said that you do that with your brothers, right? You always have that competitiveness. I remember back in the days I was with Hundela. He hated running, but he scored a lot of goals. Sometimes you have to tell him that and he doesn't like to hear that stuff. Then you would go against each other for a couple of seconds, but then at the end you were able to see it. Even on the Belgian side, how they celebrated the goal. And I like to see stuff like that because it tells you that they're winners. They do everything for the win, even if they have to go against each other for a couple seconds or in a game or in training.

21:40But at the end, it's normal and it's part of the game. Shaq? Yeah, listen, I totally agree. This happens far more often than we realize. I probably expected it to happen more in this World Cup. I think what makes this different or stand out in the way that it does is because of those hydration breaks. Normally it happens in the quiet of the dressing room at halftime. Or, to use Jermaine's example, he shouted at Huntelaar from 20 yards away. Because Jermaine's in position, Huntelaar's in position. If you have something to say, you're shouting it. So there's never this kind of direct confrontation that the hydration break kind of offered for these two players.

22:19But it happens a lot. I read nothing into it. You see the response. if you're Rudy Garcia, that's exactly what you're hoping for. If you're Belgian and support this team in any way, that's what you're hoping to see. That's what you're hoping the team is able to rebound. You've never got frustrated with anyone, have you, Stevie? Absolutely. Except Dan. As a player, no. But Dan, yes. Has Dan ever frustrated him as regularly as the 2026 World Cup? I just don't think so. You're no kidding. I used to have a tete-tete nearly every game with a guy called John Sheridan. I was playing centre-back, he was playing centre-mid, and all game we'd be shouting at each other, because he would say I was too deep, and I would say he's not deep enough.

23:03And we'd be at it. Any chance we got, when the ball went out of play, it would be like, you're going to get your... And he'd be like, no, you get yourself up here. And it was constant. But then, game's done, game's over. We're back to normal. I also think that it's not a disrespect to each other, right? You actually respect each other in that moment because you're demanding more from your teammate because you know how good they can be. And I think that's the expectation that I think you just push each other to be better out there. And that was a moment, a perfect example of it. Yeah, and in the end, Belgium got the win and it means that it is Belgium against the United States in the round of 16.

23:39Now, before I put this out to Jermaine, you think that that's a good draw for the United States, Stephen? I think this is a great result for the United States. I mean, we saw Senegal for 85 minutes just dismiss Belgium, basically. I mean, if I'm near the US, I'm sitting watching that going, oh no, if we win, we're going to play this team. And then all of a sudden, I mean, football's the only game this can happen, where the team is just dead and buried. And then all of a sudden, they're through to the next round. They get two goals in five minutes, and then they get a penalty in the last kick of the game.

24:12I mean, where else? What other sport does that happen? But the bottom line is, for me, if I'm Pochettino, absolutely, I would rather play Belgium than Senegal any day of the week because Belgium, so far, other than one game, have been bang average. If I can add to that, from a US perspective, you see what Senegal did to Belgium, how far they pushed Belgium. Let's remember before the World Cup, the US played Senegal. As it would happen, the US played Senegal without Flo Balogun. Ricardo Pepe started up front and beat Senegal on the day. So if I'm the US, well, again, you've got to play this game.

24:55You understand how different playing a World Cup knockout game is to anything that comes before. But you feel that you have enough. I think you've shown that you have enough to get the better of Belgium. Well, we have seen them play Belgium as well before the World Cup. It was 5-2 that they lost to Belgium. Does that matter, Jermaine, and how are you feeling about them facing them now in this round of 16? You know, for me, it's surprising that everybody's saying, oh, Belgium is the better fit for us. But I looked at it and yesterday I went back. The US faced Belgium seven times and they just won once.

25:33And that was 19-30 at the World Cup. So, and I asked myself, why is everybody so comfortable that we're saying, oh, it's easier to play Belgium than Senegal? the last game we lost against Belgium the last game before that game we lost against Belgium so why is it so comfortable? just because we're looking at Lukaku we're looking at De Bruyne and we say oh they're getting older and they're not performing like that but still the last game we lost so we should be careful because they still have the individual quality to hurt us yes Senegal is a different style of play but Belgium is still strong enough and they proved it again to even in the last seconds to win this game against Senegal.

26:16But I think we have to be 100 % in our best game. Then I think we will have a good game. But individual, we have to be careful that Belgium has the individual quality. And I think the last game proved that against them, where Doku was out for the first 45 minutes, and second 45 minutes he showed up, and he completely turned the game for them. At the end of the day, we can only go on what we've seen, right? and there's not one of us thought we were going to see what we're getting from the US 100 % and there's all of us again we're seeing from Belgium not what we thought we were going to see you talk about role reversal and if I'm the US and I've lost to this team and the way we're playing I can't wait to get after them and get in their face and stick it to them and if anything the Belgians are maybe going to think about the last time they played the US and go we can beat this team we've played them before we can beat this team they weren't very good you know there's nothing there to worry us 100 % I think this is absolutely a fantastic matchup for them the US are going to drive into them and get in the mush and get in the face and show them what they're all about and Belgium I just don't think Belgium are up to it and I don't care whether it's De Bruyne or Lukaku just look at their team as a whole they have done nothing particular other than get a couple of late goals in order for me to be scared of Belgium.

27:40Not at all. And they are perfect in Seattle. And what a perfect group of fans to be in front of. That is going to be more than a 12th man, isn't it, Ali? Absolutely. I think this is definitely a winnable matchup. Despite the fact that they're resilient in coming back, I do think they were vulnerable. Belgium was vulnerable in defence. And they gave Senegal plenty of opportunities to capitalise on, which we saw. I think if the US can stay organised in their attack and in their transition moments and take advantage of those moments. We'll see who's going to be the starting nine. Unfortunately, Balogun won't be there to be able to finish those chances and create.

28:17But then they can lean on Pulisic more, Tillman more, Des more to provide that creativity. But I do think that this is a really good setup and a potential win for the U.S. Can I say one thing I meant to say earlier? I hope that he doesn't move Pulisic. I hope he just makes the one change. Because the less changes he makes to what he's got going now, the better. Yeah, Potch, hope you're listening to our show right here on ESPN FC. Make sure to go and check out, this is streaming now, it's reaction last night to the US's 2-0 win over Bosnia and Herzegovina. That is streaming on ESPN+. The crew were in New York breaking that down.