Why France Fell Short vs Spain

23:36Dan Thomas:Isn't it just an iconic rivalry between England and Argentina, particularly in World Cup competition, taking a look at some of what's gone by. 1962, they met in the group stages. England won 3-1. Bobby Charlton, Jimmy Greaves and Ron Flowers with the goals on that day. 66 World Cup quarterfinal, Antonio Rattin refusing to leave the pitch was escorted off by police after a red card 1-0. That finished to England. And then we get a little closer. 1977, friendly in the Bombonera. 1-1, that finished. And of course, once again, there was drama with teeth being punched out. Okay. So let's just say, a bit of bad blood.

24:16Dan Thomas:1986, the quarterfinal at Azteca. The hand of God, and of course the goal of the century too, but the one remembered particularly by the English fans is Maradona's handball goal. 1998, David Beckham sent off a kicking out at Simeone. That game went down to penalties. You all know how that ends for England. That was a round of 16. 2002 World Cup stage, some redemption for Beckham here because he converted the penalty that made it 1-0. Pochettino took down Michael Owen in the box there, yep. Allegedly. Argentina in the group stage. Pochettino in 2016 said it was 15 years ago when Owen died. Don't believe that English football is always fair because Owen jumped like he was in a swimming pool.

24:59Dan Thomas:Come on, I didn't touch him. I promise you, it's true. Yep, a lot of history here. Julian Leron is back with us. And Archie are in touch too, wearing his lucky shirt, apparently, for England, that is, not for Argentina. But Archie, it does feel as though there seems to be a little, maybe this is a bias of my own. It feels as a bit of an overconfidence coming from the English right now. You feel over? No, I don't feel overconfident. I fear the overconfidence. Oh, OK. I mean, look, famously, we are not known for our overconfidence in England. we never get overhyped about things we never get ahead of ourselves that's not happened in any of our previous tournaments so I think that on this front, I mean look the things that I've been hearing that have been happening here on the plus side, we've seen a mural go up in Birmingham of Morgan Rogers and Jude Bellingham eating chips, like that there's been one supermarket which has taken out it's Argentinian wine, have that okay, it costs about$10 but you know, I'm sure that's really striking right to the heart of the Argentinians right now if I was to try and be serious about the game which as you know is a tough thing cautious optimism I would say I think there is a bit more realism in England after the past few years having been in finals and got further in competitions than ever before that there is more of an understanding not a complete understanding because that is not something that we are capable of in this country but more of what it will take to beat this Argentina team and it will be tough it will undoubtedly be tough.

26:35It will be an absolutely massive scrap. But I'm seeing here, I'm feeling the vibes in Manchester. There are more and more England shirts that I'm seeing throughout the day. People do believe, but they know it will be a tricky one.

26:49Dan Thomas:It's got to be a tricky one. This is an Argentinian side at LA who, OK, they might have had to take extra time. It might have come at the death in some of the games. But what we have seen is that they refuse to give in. And that's why they are where they are right now. I know this is tough to listen to, Kay. I know. I know it is. But England are and should be the favorites. They should be the favorites. Even though they have had some uneven performances, at the very least, what you cannot question from England is that physically, they are stronger now than what we have seen from Argentina over the last three matches.

27:25Argentina have been dragging their legs. This is just a physical observation. I'm not even talking about the tactics or the level of play or the talent of players. I'm just talking about running. Argentina are not running very well. And so if England are able to speed this game up and really dominate the midfield, they're going to put Argentina in a situation in which they're going to be uncomfortable. Argentina were against the ropes against Egypt. They were hanging on against Cape Verde, in trouble against Egypt, real trouble against Egypt. And they were being dominated against Switzerland. It wasn't until the red card with Breland Bolo that there was a turnaround in that match.

27:58I appreciate the heart of a champion. I appreciate the passion and the character from Argentina, but they're going to need more today than that in order to beat England. I know you don't want to hear it, Kay, but England should be the favorites going into this match.

28:12Dan Thomas:Tuchel's got to get his lineup right today, Nadem. Yes, he does, but then the players themselves have to perform in a better way than they did in the last game. And I think this game itself, from my perspective, Argentina will try and make it a game that suits them. And as Alice said, it won't be about the running. It'll be about some of those duels. It'll be about the passion. It'll be about the quality on the field and so on. I think if England get dragged into a game where, you know, they're trying to be winning fouls and stuff like that, I think it suits Argentina more. I think the more England can keep the ball just on the field and force Argentina back, I think we see the version of Argentina, which we've seen in recent games, where they've struggled at times to teams which we wouldn't expect.

28:46And I think with the speed that England can have in transitions, especially out wide, they can definitely have those moments. And it'll be interesting to see from an Argentina perspective, like can they do these sorts of comebacks against the better side in my opinion like England who are prepared to you know they've shown basically this this whole thing split into isn't it you have the sort of like pure quality team side of things on one side of the bracket and just the grit side in terms of Argentina and England you know so you could I understand why England are favourites France were favourites yesterday England more often will be favoured in this type of game generally speaking but they still need to perform to their best and make sure they don't play into Argentina's strengths because if they do, I think it's going to be another disappointment.

29:25Dan Thomas:It's two sides who are probably pretty tired by this point as well, Shaka. We've seen those extra times. We've seen England at altitude in Miami. Two sides who aren't maybe at their fully, at their best right now having to try and get their spot in a final today. Yeah, but what we've seen with Argentina, even though it's gone into extra time in at least two of those knockout games and gone to the 97th or 98th and the other, is in Argentina regardless of how tired they may be, regardless of how long they stay in this competition, they are going to go the distance. And they are going to make you earn that win, however that comes.

30:01So for England, they've got to match that. They've got to be prepared to cope with that grit, that determination, that fight, that physicality throughout this competition. I get it. England are our favourites for their football. but Argentina kind of, I think they know this territory. They are able to cope with it better than most. And in this one little number 10 guy, they have a player who in a moment can change games better than anybody else in world football. To the point that you were making there, Zach, and I think it's a critical one, not just about Lionel Messi, but Argentina as a whole.

30:43The sense that I get from this group is that they're willing to die on the field. That's the passion with which they play. England has to be willing to die on the field. And I know it sounds like an exaggeration, but you see the connection that Argentina has with emotion and their game thrives on emotion. Does England match that emotion? And are they able to match that feeling of, we're going to do everything and anything in order to bring this joy to our fan base and to our country. The hopes of a nation are on our shoulders and we're willing to carry that load. Argentina has proven that they can do that and they're still doing that.

31:27England must be willing to do that as well.

31:28Dan Thomas:Yeah, Jules, it's a total and complete brotherhood to LA's point, Argentina. Do you see that from England? Yeah, I think we saw the spirit and the character, the personality in the game against Mexico, for example. But even in the game against Norway to a lesser extent, really, I mean, I don't see any scenario where Argentina beat England. I think England have too much in terms of pace and speed, which Argentina doesn't have anymore, in terms of physicality and intensity that Argentina don't have. Argentina, and Adam is right, will play their game in the sense that it will be a street fight. And then there's Messi.

32:00And Messi can win any game on his own. Sure, to a certain extent, again. And I think England, if they don't mess it up individually, not dealing well with emotions like the French yesterday, if Tuchel doesn't mess it up tactically or in his game selection, I just think they're too strong for this Argentina team who, as Ali was saying, have been struggling the last three games. And this is not going to change. It's not going to change tomorrow, this afternoon, sorry. So for me, England are a huge favourite and rightly so, and they should go through. Yeah, for me, based on what everyone's saying, England obviously have to match that level of intensity that Argentina will bring.

32:34But what's important is they have to play their own game as well. I think if they decide to try and play this game the way that Argentina want to do it and show that they can fight as well as like the main point, I think they'll really struggle because if for example they make it through this game and then they all of a sudden try and battle and play the way Spain play in the final, they'll get destroyed. So I think they need to essentially find a way to maintain their identity. But like I say, know that every duel is going to be important and they have to be able to match Argentina.

33:01Dan Thomas:Archie, how are you feeling about dual's confidence in England there? I don't need it, Kay. I really don't need it. Anytime I hear something like that, it's like, oh, no. Look, as somebody who is very much a calculated pessimist and will tip Argentina to win tonight in the hope that it brings about an England result, I've done it in the past. It works. Everyone's got their own ways of dealing with these things, OK? I'm quite superstitious. When I was watching games earlier in the tournament with some friends, I had to be in a different room to them because England weren't scoring whilst I was in the room with them.

33:32It wasn't working. I had to go into a different room 20 minutes before the end of the Congo game. And what do you know? It did mean that I had to watch the whole of the Mexico game in my bedroom alone, which was terrifying and galling at the same time.

33:45Dan Thomas:But look, I'm nervous, Kay. I'm really nervous. OK. Actually, go and lock yourself in a room that seems to be the key. We're going to let you go and do that. I've got to go to a watch party for us tonight. You need to find some back door and just lock yourself in it, OK? You'll be fine. Let me just see. This game comes down to one thing I realize. Thank you. If Jules puts on an England shirt, it's all over. It's all over. Never mind all his tactics and selections. If Jules puts on an England shirt, it is over. He's brought one. I've seen it. You should wear your Argentina shirt today, Jules, just like you wore your French shirt yesterday.

34:22Dan Thomas:All right. Thank you so much. There will be reaction to this semi-final. You're going to be okay. We'll be back with the boys. You're going to be fine. 5 p.m. Eastern ESPN2. Who knows where I'll be at that time. Stick around with us. Flo Balagan has spoken out about the red card he received and its impact on the USA. That's up next.

34:46As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Turn it up! Storm has zero sugar and 200 milligrams of caffeine, so you can turn that workout up a notch.

35:27Good energy in, good energy out. Energy for life.

35:34Dan Thomas:Here's Flo Balogun speaking on the overturning of his World Cup ban, saying my initial reaction was I was happy to be back in the team, but when I kind of started to reflect, I knew it was going to cause a lot of controversy and I could almost see within my teammates a bit of nerves because it's something that is so unique. But the closer we got to the game, it was difficult. A lot of outside noise, and that's hard to avoid. I think it put a lot more pressure on us than we needed. So, Xhaka, that's the player himself saying it put more pressure on them than was needed. Jules is back with us. Did it affect the team?

36:06Dan Thomas:He's saying it. Do you think it did? Given the result and the performance, the easy conclusion is yes. I'd also go so far as to say it also affected Belgium. In seeing how it came together, I thought that was easily Belgium's best performance of the tournament. and you want to feel that a lot of the controversy that preceded it spurred them on in a certain way. But at the same time, you also felt that with the US. All the conversation leading up to that game. And while, whether you accepted the overturning of the suspension or not, there were then questions as to whether Balogun should start or not.

36:45Everything about it just felt, from a US perspective, felt really negative, really heavy. And as much as you tried to separate yourself during the course of a tournament, it had to get to the players. And again, given the performance, given the result, you want to see it worked. Ali? I think leading up to the match against Belgium, ahead of the red car postponement, suspension, whatever you want to call it, probation for Balogun, this team of the United States had built so much equity in terms of the support and the fan base. and it had built this positive energy and vibes about the United States and everybody felt really good about the United States and almost supporting this team.

37:28Once this whole thing began, all of that turned. It was no longer about the good vibes and the positive energy. It's all about sort of this shady business. How did this happen? And the turnaround was quick. People that got in the bandwagon got off the bandwagon real quick because they did not know how to feel about this whole red car situation. And unless you were a U.S. fan that seemed to be excited about the potential of having your best striker on the field, if you were on defense about this team, you're like, no, see you all later. We're going with Belgium or we're going with somebody else.

38:00All the vibes of this team disappeared and you could see it in the performance. So I have a slightly different perspective to this. I think the people that felt the most pressure would be himself. And then the change in mentality comes with the Belgian side. Because if I was a Belgian, I'd be incredibly motivated to make sure that we beat this USA side. I think for Balogun himself, he knows that all the eyes are on him. Whether he has said something or not, the eyes are on him, and people are going to be watching everything he does in this game. But I think some of the U.S. men's national team players are getting a pass here just because the eyes weren't on them in the same sort of way.

38:33I think they could still approach this game. It was a big occasion for them, obviously. But I think the point you've made, Ali, about the bandwagon type stuff, maybe we're talking about the casuals or people who don't necessarily support USA. but from what I saw, the vast majority of the U.S. supporters in the U.S. still very much supported the team. If you were not a U.S. fan, you were like, see ya! Of course. Goodbye. Au revoir. Ciao. Nos vemos. But you could argue that's the case for, say, for example, England today playing against Argentina or Argentina. People might support one team or the other but really detest the other.

39:05So I think from the U.S. men's side of things, yes, they lost a lot of general football fans, but they were still playing at home. they were not playing that game in Belgium or on foreign territory they were playing in front of their home fans who were there to support them and the vast majority of them that I heard anyway were at peace with the fact that Balogun was available they were excited about it they were championing it they were saying ah look we've got Balogun and so on and so forth so I think for Flo Balogun he's in a difficult situation I think the fact that he he's one of the first people I've seen related to say this US men's national team who's spoken about it in the same way that people from the outside have thought about it.

39:39He's one of the few. Even Pochettino himself didn't speak about it in that manner. So I'm glad that he's seen it from that side. And if anything, it makes me like him more. But then some of the others who've spoken the other way, they just don't feel like football people to me.

39:50Dan Thomas:Jules, you get the final say. Yeah, I think it was a mistake. I think they made a mess out of it. I think if they could do it again, they would not do it again now. And I agree with Nadam. I think it's really fair and honest from Balogun to come out and say something like that. When he says that put a lot of pressure on us. He meant also a lot of pressure on me. And I don't think he coped well with that pressure and the expectation of, hey, you're back and you're going to win us this game now because you are Balogun and we did that for you. And he didn't ask for anything, Balogun. This was not his call at all.

40:20And I think he felt the victim. He was the victim as well, in a way, of that call that fell on him. Then he had to regroup, had to play the game, which was a difficult game against a team that, in the end, had a better tactical plan than the US anyway on the day. And I think he got criticized for something that he should have never been criticized for.

40:37Dan Thomas:Yes, Special Football America is coming up later, and that will be discussing what Flo Balogun had to say and, of course, everything else that's been going on in the world of Football America. Saturday, you can catch that 2 p.m. Eastern on ESPN+. But we know you've all been waiting for this moment. The boys are back at the sandbox. What have they got for us? Find out after this.

41:06This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. us. Are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever.

41:42Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with Power Boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different. and Messi only trusts Duracell.

42:04Dan Thomas:England and Argentina coming up today in the second of the semifinals to find out who will be facing Spain come this weekend. The road to the semifinals looked like this for both sides. This is the knockout stages. Remember those big battles against Mexico and Egypt for the two and then the last games, both of them going to extra time. England against Norway, Argentina against Switzerland And now here we are in the semi. But what can we expect from both teams at the sandbox? Thank you, Kay. Much of the conversation about Argentina, of course, has to do with Lionel Messi and how England are going to deny Lionel Messi.

42:41I actually think, Natum, that it's more important that England denies the midfield of Argentina. Now, we know that Lionel Messi likes to operate in this sort of space. That's where he does his best work. He's going to get into those sort of spaces. He's going to move around. He's going to come in here. He's going to go out there with freedom. So if you're England, do you concern yourself about that space in particular? Or do you concern yourself with what I think is more important? Jude Bellion, pressing the ball. If Enzo Fernandez gets wide, Elliot Anderson, pressing the ball. Somebody's got to step to my cursor.

43:14Declan Rice has to help there. And it feels like maybe you're shorting numbers. So that's when you need the help of guys like Harry Kane, who likes to play underneath anyways, and just get around Leandro Paredes. Rodrigo Depol may be the free guy. Again, this is when you need the help of guys like Anthony Gordon. Now, it's important that we notice that Argentina are very narrow. And so the job of Anthony Gordon that has been in wide areas, I think, will be more important if he's actually talking inside and helping in the midfield area and therefore regaining possession of the ball and denying Lionel Messi.

43:45And when they do that, Natum, Lionel Messi gets frustrated. And so what does he tend to do? He starts to wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder, and he's now wandering away from goal. So if you have Lionel Messi in this position and you force him to go back here to get the ball, you've done your job. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think the further back Messi goes, the more comfortable you will feel. Let's be honest. It doesn't mean you're completely in the clear. Since we're talking about one of the greatest to ever do it. But I think your point is exactly right. And it's a case of trying to limit the service.

44:10I think we saw that yesterday with Spain. That France team, really good players. But it's a lot harder to be great when somebody's in your face constantly. And I think from an England perspective, if they can be getting into these positions here and say maybe they can't press, I think an important part is making sure that they force the Argentinians to play the ball out wide. Because we know that throughout this tournament, out wide is where you can be in your most comfortable position playing against them. But I think you're exactly right. And I hope the England team can step up and apply that sort of pressure and make it uncomfortable for the Argentinians.

44:38Because if they don't, I think it's going to be led by them. And then, before you know it, Messi steps up. Well, this is how important I think the wide game is for Argentina. I didn't even put him on the field. I didn't even put him on the field. Because Argentina does not use Nahuel Molina. does not use Tagliafico down the left-hand side. They concentrate and focus in this area of the field. And so if you want to find Lionel Messi here, then England is going to have to deny that space. I think that's where England wins the game, denying the service to Lionel Messi because of the press they put on Argentina.

45:08Switzerland did a good job of that. Argentina's legs were not there. I think that's where England can have an advantage.

45:15Dan Thomas:Thank you very much, guys. However, the Argentines have taken over off the pitch right now in Atlanta. Look at these scenes. Incredible stuff. This is yesterday ahead of today's semifinal against England. But of course, most of those fans will be heading to one place and one place only right now. And that is the Irish Exit Pub in Atlanta with Kevin Egan and Adrian Healy. Lovely scenes there, Kev. What are we expecting today? Tell you what, I can't get this song out of my head now. The England fans are here. They're ready to rock, Adrian. They truly believe. They are drinking in every moment. How special is it?

45:55A World Cup semifinal. Doesn't exactly come around too often, especially when you're an England fan, Kev, and especially against Argentina. The most special of all rivals. Oh, 100%. I know Kay's nervous. How nervous are you ahead of today? You know, I don't know if nervous is the right moment. I'm just, like, excited. I'm like, how often you get to play Argentina. It hardly ever happens. It's such a special relationship between the two countries. let's call it that and I think back to previous times where England have had a chance to win a World Cup 86-98 and it was Argentina that ended that journey and I just feel this is time to put it right today.

46:32Do you know the crazy fact that not really anyone's talking about is Lionel Messi has never played against England? I know, isn't that crazy? And that's something the fans here in attendance were a little bit stunned by too. Yeah absolutely really really bizarre to think about it but you know the last time they played Argentina was 2005. Lionel Messi had just been sent off the game before was Red College so for him yeah to get a chance to play England and maybe it'll be his last chance makes it even more special yeah it's just such a special day Kay I know you're nervous back in studio about this and rightly so the prize is Spain on Sunday in a World Cup final we couldn't have asked for a better match up here in downtown Atlanta yeah and there's always something remarkable that happens in a game between these two and I think today's going to be no exception it's never a dull game between England Argentina I'm expecting fireworks can controversy, you know, talking points.

47:19A win? Are you expecting a win? I am expecting a win. I'm expecting a narrow win. England, they haven't made anything easy for them on this journey, and that is going to continue here today. I don't know if you want us to make predictions today. You're getting more nervous as you're out. I know. The more I think about it, am I actually predicting us to be Argentina? Yes, but it may take extra time. There's going to be goals at both ends. I'm going to say 3-2. 3-2 England. I want to show you guys this gentleman here in an Argentina jersey. Can we show you a tattoo? Check this out. I am a Latino fan, but I love Oasis.

47:51He's obsessed with Oasis. Look at this. Oh, my God. I've got to see your biceps. Sorry, not just because they're massive, but I want to see the other side of it. Liam Gallagher on this side. Look at this. Can you give us Wonderwall while you're showing us? Today is going to be the day that I never go back to you. By now, we show some of how we last what we got to do. I don't believe that anybody feels the way I do about you now. And now another song. Yeah. Vamos, vamos, selección. Hoy te vivimos de estar para ser campeón. Hoy hay que ganar. I need to lean Gallagher. Give me a ticket, man. This is for him.

48:35Lean Gallagher, I don't have a ticket. Anyone ever tell you you look a bit like Sergio Aguero? Yes, or maybe. Aguero! Can I see the match in his palco? potentially, potentially. Hey, top man, thank you for joining us. I'll tell you what, that's a brave man, Kay. That's a brave man. You love to see it.

48:54Dan Thomas:I'm laughing. Can I see the match in his palco? Can I just go and join him in the VIP suite to go and see it? Can I just say quickly, Kev, Adrian Healy's journey, he's been with the Dutch in Dallas, he's been in Miami twice, he's been with the Scots in Boston, now he's here with you, he gets to go to a pub in Atlanta, it's been a brilliant ride for you, Adrian. We saved the best for last, didn't we? We saved the best for last. Yeah, an amazing journey. Amazing journey. And the journey isn't over yet. No, it certainly isn't. Adrian's here for the fun, as am I. Back to you guys. Well, we will be giving you our predictions next.

49:29Dan Thomas:And the animals will too. Oh, okay. That little doggy liked Argentine. I'll see who he liked after this.

49:39Dan Thomas:Be sure to catch the latest edition of Football W. It is streaming now on ESPN+. That edition was recorded yesterday. And make sure to stay up to date with NWSL on ESPN. Gotham against Washington coming up tonight, 8 p.m. Eastern.

50:00Dan Thomas:Pitch preview is brought to you by DraftKings Sports. Animal predictions for England, Argentina. Oh, no. Oh, not such a good boy. What a finish. What a finish. Oh, no! The turtle's going for Messi and co. What about the parrot? Okay. He's creeping, he's creeping, creeping, creeping. He's keeping us guessing. Good birdie. Julian Leroyne is back with us. It is prediction time here in the studio. Should we start with Jules? Yes, sure. Go on then, Jules. What have you got? I've got two in England, Bellingham and Kane. Oh boy. To be fair, no one else is scoring, so. And they've had eight scorers. Yeah.

50:48Dan Thomas:Yeah, so Argentina have. To be fair, Rashford scored as well in game with them. All right. All right. Thank you for that. Go on then, Nadeem. You may as well go. I love Messi, don't I? But, you know, it's tears tonight for him. Mmm. Mmm. Do you want to go ahead? Sure, I'll go ahead. I'll go ahead. It's fine. Let's make it. Let's make it. Let's make Kay happy. Not really. You go last. No legs. I don't know which way Kay are going to go. I know you're nervous. I'm going England here. I don't know which way Kay is going to go here. I actually feel better that it's not all on England. That's why I did it.

51:24Dan Thomas:Thank you, Alex. I'm thinking of you, Kay. Who's barely making it through the show. My nine-year-old heart needs healing. Please let it happen, England. Please let it happen. See how polite I was. I was so polite and kind. Earlier in the show we had newspapers. Four from England. One from Argentina. And that still remains the case. Yes. Okay. Well, we'll be finding out today. Make sure to stay with us for all of our programs. It's going to be fine, Kay. See you later. Thanks for being with us. MLB.tv on ESPN is your home for every out-of-market game. live or on demand. Catch your favorite teams and players, plus MLB Network and ESPN app features like Multiview, syncing your stats, key plays, bets, and fantasy, all in one place.

52:17Sign up now for MLB.tv in the ESPN app. Separate subscriptions required, blackouts, and other terms apply. Visit stream.espn.com slash MLB TV for more information.