Will Liverpool Bounce Back vs Manchester United?

22:48Mark Ogden:So, Dara is a guy that might struggle. Obviously, when Kanate is not fit, then they have got a problem because they haven't got an abundance of centre-half, having missed out on Mark Gray. So, they really need Kanate to be fit. I think it's 50-50, maybe even less than that. So, Liverpool have got a problem. So, what do they do? Do they bring in Joel Gomez, who we know can do a job, but is he ever going to be fit? He might be fit for 60 minutes. So, Liverpool have got a problem at centre-half. and the one area where United are better than last season I think is up front. I think Cesc is beginning to settle down a little bit.

23:18Mark Ogden:He offers more of a threat in the sense that he can hold the ball if he can flick it on. And Boomer moves around a bit. Cunha is lively without scoring a goal. So Liverpool would need a reliable centre-half against United if United ever get out of their own half to give the ball to the forwards. But I think Liverpool, that is their position of weakness. So, yeah, it's a struggle for Canarte to be fit. But I think that they've got Gomez to come in if needed. But, you know, Gomez is a good player at times. but his injury record has also let him down in the past. Can that offer some hope then, Robbo, to Manchester United, knowing these defensive issues for Liverpool?

23:52Yeah, because they haven't defended well this season, even with Canate in the side. He's made mistakes. Van Dijk hasn't always read the danger particularly well. The two full-backs have struggled, whoever those full-backs have been. So there is space to create against Liverpool at the moment. And as Mark said, Sesko is starting to show that he's got some ability. I thought it's taken him a little bit of time to get going. And Bermot, I think, has been excellent. He's got that little bit of pace. I think he's found the right position, or that sort of inside right position. And Kunja, we know, has got talent.

24:20So if those three players can get, or they can get the ball into those three players with any sort of quality, they will cause one or two problems. But as Craig said, can that midfield of Manchester United, the wing-backs of Manchester United, get the ball into that front three with enough quality? I'm not sure they can. And that's why Liverpool should dominate the game and why the front players for Liverpool should be the most demonstrative players on the pitch. Let's talk a little bit about Mason Mount. It's the latest subject of Rob Dawson's article over on ESPN.com. Obviously, we saw an improved version of Mason Mount last time out against Sunderland for Manchester United.

24:54Yes, it was against Sunderland, but it was an improved showing from them how to kick on and build on that for the players and the team.

25:00Stewart Robson:I think he just needs to stay injury-free, doesn't he? That's a starting point for every player. We've seen it with his former teammate, Rhys James at Chelsea, who looks as if he's back healthy and playing really, really well in multiple positions. This was a sort of strange signing, not in a sense that he's a bad player, because he's not. He's a player that can fill two or three different roles. It just seemed that United chased this guy and ultimately spent quite a lot of money on him. And it wasn't necessarily a player, I think, in a position that they were desperate for at the time. But nonetheless, when he has played this season, I think he's looked sharp.

25:39Stewart Robson:And I think he is a player that Amarim likes. And yeah, I mean, it's good to see that he is injury free. He needs that to continue. But he's tidy. He's a tidy player and he works hard and he creates and he scores the odd goals. So I think it is important that he's fit again. And when I've seen him play this year, he's looked quite lively. That really doesn't concern me. that kind of area of the field for United. You know, I can't, and Robbo touched on it, they've got some good players there, and if they get the service to them, you know, I think ultimately, you know, they'll certainly cause teams more problems than they did last year.

26:17Stewart Robson:These kind of players don't really worry me. It's kind of the rest of this jigsaw that concerns me. And so, yeah, it's important having these players fit again, but you can only do so much. If the other part of the team is crumbling, then there's only so much the other, you know, or the front line of this side can do. But, yeah, it's good to see Mason Mount back fit. As again, I touched on Rhys James, who's a very, very good player. And he just seemed to have injury after injury after injury. And it seemed that Mason Mount was having the same. And sometimes psychologically, and my God, Robbo and I can attest to this, having spent hours and hours on treatment tables and at different physios, it's soul-destroying.

26:56Stewart Robson:And you go out and you're searching. You're searching for the answer to these problems. and sometimes the more you search, the more difficult it is and the more problems you get because you're just trying. You can almost try too hard and you're going to this physio and that doctor and you're trying this rehabilitation and I don't think supporters understand really what, at times, maybe some do, but I really feel behind the scenes. This is the part of the game that the paying public, the supporters, they don't see it. They don't understand what players go through. That mental torture of wanting to be on the field to help your teammates and your manager and having 20 minutes here and 10 minutes there and another two weeks on the treatment table, it's very tough for any player.

27:46Stewart Robson:So good to see Mason Mountback fit and hopefully he's going to be an asset to this United side. Absolutely. Let's take a look at the predictions from the panel then for this game ahead. Mark Ogden. 4-1 to Liverpool. What would a bad result like that mean for Amarine, Mark?

28:06Mark Ogden:Well, it would just mean that the pressure gets cranked up again. I don't think this game decides Ruben Amarine's fate. I mean, Erickson had survived 7-0 at Anfield for a few more months, but it will kind of set the tone for what comes next. But, I mean, the reason they're going for 4-1 is because they've already conceded three at Man City this season. They conceded three at Brentford. And as Craig's been saying, United's midfield is just not equipped to deal with Anfield. It just isn't. When Liverpool are good, they come at you in waves. And just the prospect of Casemiro on his own, with Bruno Fernandes running all over the pitch, waving his arms in the air, it's terrifying from a Man United perspective because they're just not going to be able to keep Liverpool at bay.

28:42Mark Ogden:So I can see Liverpool pouring forward, getting a bit of joy, because Liverpool's confidence is low. But if they get an early goal and the fans get behind them, it will be an ordeal for Man United. I just don't see how United can somehow keep Liverpool at bay. They just haven't got the legs. Like, Craig, they haven't got the legs or the mobility midfield. You know, Mason Mount is an interesting story at United because he's a very good player, a very good technical player. But he's a player they didn't need. You know, he basically plays the same role that Bruno Fernandes wants to play when he's at his best.

29:09Mark Ogden:What they needed was a defensive midfielder who could run, keep the ball and move the ball, and Adam Walton or Carlos Beléber. But they haven't gone for that. And this summer they had the opportunity to do it again and they decided to sign three forwards instead. you could argue that he didn't really need Sesco he could have maybe taken a chance on Highland again this season which is debatable but the question is would he be better with Highland up front and a world class centre midfielder or Sesco up front and Castamere in midfield, it's a toss of a coin but I think it would have been better signing a midfielder and they would have gone to Anfield with such a little chance of getting a result

29:42Stewart Robson:So Augie went back in the archives during international week, that's a very clever move to find the quotes from Sir Jim Ratcliffe about Eric Ten Hag being a very good coach and then sacking him three weeks later. But he didn't come out at that time with Ten Hag and say we're going to basically give him three years. That's it. Augie, that's an unbelievable statement to make. Bearing in mind we have witnessed what we have witnessed with this manager and then potentially having to renege on that is going to make you look even more clueless than you've shown yourself to be thus far.

30:20Mark Ogden:Yeah, but you said that about Tan Haggab and just giving him a two-year contract. So, you know, he's almost kind of given the same sort of commitment with Amarim. But, no, you're right. I mean, but what will happen is, as you know, that results will dictate it all. And if results are bad, if they lose at Liverpool, then they have got three very difficult games. You know, Brighton at home, Forest away and Tottenham away. They're games that United lost last season. And Amarim's system, as we know, they're struggling with it right now. The players don't seem to buy into it. Everybody knows what United are going to do.

30:47Mark Ogden:I mean preparing to face Man Utd for the easiest job in the world right now if you're a Premier League manager because you know exactly what they're going to do. So I'm remiss to start getting some results and it's all right Jim Ratcliffe saying he needs three years in charge but if they get to November, December and the 10th, 11th, 12th again and they're going to miss out on Champions League or European football again and also they're going to miss out on 10, 20 million pounds from finishing low down the Premier League, the prize with every position is important. is important. So Sir Jim Ratcliffe is saying that right now, but I don't believe it for a minute.

31:15Mark Ogden:I think we get to November and it's the same situation. Amarim's in big danger.

31:19Stewart Robson:Why would he say it, though? I don't know. Why would you... If Sir Jim Ratcliffe had one of his lackeys, that's maybe a bit strong, one of his employees, Omar Barada or Jason Wilcox, and previously it was Dan Ashworth, If he had one of them coming out and making that statement, he'd probably pull them into the office and say, what the hell are you doing? You're just putting yourself under pressure. But for him to come out and say it, I mean, just... What's the point? I don't understand.

31:52Mark Ogden:There's a lot about Sir Jim Radcliffe and what he's had to say and how much he's had to say that I just don't understand. It mirrors Todd Bowley, especially in those first two years at Chelsea. He's just opening himself up for criticism. And if things go wrong, you look back on what he said. And are he clearly willing to dive into the archives and kind of show how he contradicts himself? Now, so for me, I just don't understand this role that Sir John Radcliffe has, Sir Jim Radcliffe has adopted. It makes absolutely no sense. From a Manchester United perspective, you just feel like you can see what's going to happen here.

32:33Mark Ogden:And I predicted 2-1. I think if Liverpool would take 2-1 right now, if they get that scoreline and Mo Salah scores, Alexander Isak scores, Florian Verz if he starts, has a good performance, they would take that right now. Oddly, so would Ruben Amarim. And you hear the same kind of post-game press conference that you heard after Arsenal to start the season. Though we've lost, we've shown that we can match it with the big boys in this league. That, which is just as frustrating as anything that's coming out of that club right now. Given their struggles, given how poor you've been, kind of clinging to results, narrow losses as a positive, is right in Ruben Amarim's wheelhouse.

33:19Mark Ogden:and that for me is where I feel Manchester United have no real sense of accountability as to who they are, what their aspirations are and it's from the head all the way go down to what you've seen out on the park.

33:34Stewart Robson:It's a good time to go to Anfield though, isn't it? I mean, in terms of the points, they've got the points. They're just behind Arsenal, they're up there but they haven't played well. Robbo touched on it. They haven't played well from the Community Shield, the Bournemouth game, the first game of the season, all the way through. They've been behind in a lot of games. They've been losing or scoring late goals, which was good for them at some point, but hasn't continued. They've lost three straight games. They were ragged in Turkey against Galatasaray. They got completely outworked, outplayed, out-thought by Chelsea.

34:05Stewart Robson:And that was not even Chelsea's strongest team. They had 10 injuries, but they got out-thought and outplayed in the middle of the park. Chelsea pressed them. They couldn't handle it. You can get at this Liverpool team much more than you can get at them last year. They're not as effective going forward. So they have a lot of it. Liverpool, that is. I know United's issues are clear. Every Tom, Dick and Harry, they've been clear for a while. But Liverpool, and Augie touched on them finishing top three, which they will. Of course they will. But you don't spend the money. You don't have the type of transfer summer they had to finish top three.

34:42Stewart Robson:You go out and you spend huge money on Izak, on Kirkez, on Florian Verts, on Frimpong and others to dominate English football. To do what Man City did for five years. To do what the old Man United side under Fergie and the Aston Wenger side under Arsenal at Thames. It went out and it dominated English football. It dominated games. Liverpool spent money in the summer to do that. They spent money to take themselves to the next level. And that level may come. And they have very, very good players. But the influx of these star players has caused, along with some injuries, to be fair, McAllister doesn't look fit, Gravenberg not quite the same, Kanati and Van Dijk not quite the same, Mo Salah, big contract, not quite the same, probably lazier than before, particularly if you watched the Chelsea game, Kukurela ran off him time and time and time again.

35:32Stewart Robson:That's something for other teams to look at for your left back, and if you're the left wing back at Man United, you're saying, listen, when we get it, we've got the switch of play because Salah's not tracking back and they're weak in the right back area at the moment, Liverpool. And when he doesn't track back, a midfielder has to get out there. That's what happened against Chelsea. So there are all these things that you can get at Liverpool if United have enough about them. That is the big question. Every team in the Premier League pretty much this year has been able to get at this Liverpool team.

36:03Stewart Robson:The big question is, do Man United have enough about them to get at this weakened Liverpool defence? We're going to find out Sunday, obviously. Absolutely. Final say goes to you, Rubbo. Well, I think Liverpool win, but it's a big game for Arna Slott and his Liverpool players, and particularly the new players that have come into the team. Because when you're bought as big players, you've got to hit the ground running. You've got to start playing well. And Craig's absolutely right. These players were bought to take Liverpool to the next level so they could dominate English football for the next three or four years.

36:35At the moment, it doesn't look as though that's going to happen. OK, well, keep up to date with everything that's going on in the world of football and the Gab and Joel show. The latest edition dropped this morning. Don Hutchison's back for a little more chat with Gab, and they'll be touching on everything that's coming up this weekend and what we've seen on international duty behind us.

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37:25Stewart Robson:As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Speaking of international duty, The recent round of action saw England qualify for next year's World Cup with two qualifying games to spare.

38:06They've also not conceded a single goal in qualifying and won all six games under Thomas Tuchel. However, no Jude Bellingham in the recent round of action. Thomas Tuchel's been asked about that and whether he'll be speaking to him. And he said, of course, he's an important player. He's a big player. I will speak to a lot of players, also to the guys that will get a text from me who are not in camp, especially them. No one has done anything wrong. It's not a punishment or whatever. And I feel that when I text them and I speak to them, that everyone is eager to come back. And this is how it has to be.

38:41Craig, what do you think of what he's had to say there? Well, look,

38:45Stewart Robson:this is boring the life out of me. Not Bellingham, let's say. Not Bellingham, the Bellingham stuff. I'll get to this in a minute. Jude Bellingham hasn't played well for a while, right? And there was a perceived attitude issue on the field that Tuchel didn't like. I understand all that. And you can address that. And managers do. And have done before. But let me just say, it is easy or easier to leave out big stars and big players and big names when you're playing cannon fodder. And I know it's not England's fault. I know it's not Tuchel's fault. but these qualification games are just a tad short of a waste of time apart from the fact you're going to qualify for a World Cup but we know England's going to do that anyway and you know you're walloping Latvia and all these teams if you go and play Spain and France and Italy and the better teams in Europe and you're getting beat or you're drawn and your performance is not great.

39:50Stewart Robson:It's more difficult to leave your big stars out. And I don't think Jude Bellingham should be in the England team at the moment because I don't think he's, well obviously he's had the shoulder injury, didn't play particularly well last year, he's just come back, shouldn't have played in the Madrid derby, that was a mistake from Alonso. So he's not ready to step into the England team but my point is for any manager it's much easier to poo poo some of your bigger, what we would call the old big heads, when you're walloping some of the weakest team in Europe, what England have done. And that's all they have done.

40:20Stewart Robson:I mean, don't read into the qualification. It means deadly squat come the World Cup, because these teams can't even raise a gallop against England. So, you know, the crunch will be when he needs his big players in the big moments, at the big tournaments, in the knockout rounds of the World Cup. That will be the crux of when he goes to the well in these games, who's he going to go for? Easy to talk Talk about it now when you're walloping the lap views of the world. More difficult when you're playing the juggernauts of international football, like the big European teams, like the big South American teams.

41:00Stewart Robson:That's when a manager will have to make the big decisions. Yeah, because to Craig's point, Robbo, the big games and the big tests lie ahead with the World Cup coming next year. Is that when he really does need these big stars to rely on? Of course he does. But at the moment, if you're the England manager, It doesn't matter whether you've been there a long time or you haven't been there a long time. You've got to pick players that are fit and in form. At the moment, I don't think Jude Bellingham is fully fit. He's still struggling from his operation. He's been out for a long while, so he's not going to be fully fit.

41:31And he's not played well for quite some while. So Thomas Tuchel doesn't have to pick him at the moment. He'll hope that Jude Bellingham, over the next few months, starts to show the form that he showed a year and a half ago when he got into the Real Madrid side and was scoring goals and playing brilliantly. And he can get back to that. I'm sure of that. And that's when, as Craig said, that's when he'll be needed, when England are playing big teams in the World Cup, because he is one of England's best players, when he's playing his best. But at the moment, he's not fit and hasn't been playing well enough to justify being picked for England.

42:02Stewart Robson:Before Oggy or Shaq want to step in, I think this is nothing against England or Thomas Tuchel. You can only play what you can play. Your group is your group. They're way too strong. And this is what UEFA have been talking about. and making it a little bit more exciting. I mean, I don't think that's going to happen because qualification is qualification and this is probably always going to be the case. But I think this, from an English perspective, if I'm looking from the outside as someone who lived in England for the best part of 25 years and played down there, is that this is where England and England supporters get, maybe some in the media, but maybe not all, get carried away.

42:39Stewart Robson:And all of a sudden it's like, you know, Thomas Tuchel's come in, he's ruffled a few feathers, he's talked about some supporters and he's talked about the atmosphere, but he's got these great results against these weaker teams. And all of a sudden now, it's like, oh, we've finally found the man. This is the guy. He's going to take us to the promised land and all that. And I do feel you'll get a bit carried away with these qualification results. And it's kind of frustrating to sort of watch because it's akin to an FA Cup tie, like Liverpool or Arsenal playing somebody in League One or something like that.

43:14Stewart Robson:So I don't think it's a barometer. I agree.

43:18Mark Ogden:But the weird thing for me, looking in from the outside, is this, whatever it is happening between Jude Bellingham and Thomas Tuchel. And he's taken the opportunity, maybe not necessarily Tuchel, but certainly the media around the England camp, has taken the opportunity, with these good results, against Latvia and Wales and whoever else, to almost make more of that than it should be. And as everybody has alluded to, Bellingham doesn't deserve to be in the England squad right now. But yet still, he's a topic of discussion because of whatever just happened between those two. Yet, we all agree that come the World Cup, he'll be there.

43:57Mark Ogden:And he'll have to play a significant part, an important part, if England are to go as deep in this tournament as they're expected to. So I just don't understand why all the noise about Bellingham. We know how this story is going to play out. Yeah, I'd be interested to know if you're hearing anything behind the scenes, Oggy, on this whole situation with Thomas Tuchel and the Big England stars. Obviously, the players that he has been picking have been delivering for him, albeit against the opposition they've been facing. Yeah, there's been chat for a while about Bellingham, probably going back to the Euros where, you know, it's a squad of 23-24 big egos.

44:33Mark Ogden:And we have to admit that if you play at that top level for a top Premier League European club and play for England, you have to have an ego to perform. and there's a suggestion that his ego is bigger than others and he wasn't massively popular within the camp during the Euros. There was that incident in the final where he gave Gareth Southgate a dressing down during the game. So he rates himself, Jude Bellingham, and I think it rubs people up a little bit, especially when he doesn't do his share of the media commitments that the other players do. Harry Kane is much more important to Bayern Munich in England than Jude Bellingham is surrounding it in England, but Jude Bellingham doesn't do the same kind of media work that Harry Kane does, and I think it rubs people up the wrong way in the camp.

45:08Mark Ogden:But in the sense of why are we all talking about it? Well, I mean, the reality is when international football comes around, as the guys know, you have 10 days, two weeks of nothing happening, nothing interesting happening. There's no Premier League, no La Liga. So you've basically got England. So for five or six days, you've got nothing to write about or report about than England. And the problem is that issues that aren't really important, like Cam Morgan and Rodgers played number 10, become big issues. You know, Duke Bellingham suddenly becomes a three - or four-day issue because there's nothing else to get into.

45:36Mark Ogden:So, and, you know, that's the thing. He's a big player. He's a world-class player. He's a world name. So people are going to talk about Duke Bellingham. But the reality is there's no way he's going to miss out on the World Cup unless he's not fit because this is Thomas Tuchel's only chance to win a World Cup. He's, like, got one shot at the World Cup. So he has to take Bellingham. He might not like him. He might not play him. But if he goes to the World Cup and England lose in the second round of the quarterfinals and doesn't take Duke Bellingham, he'll be like, well, hang on, Thomas. You've left a Real Madrid midfield throughout your squad.

46:02Mark Ogden:So what's all that about? so he'll take him primarily as an insurance policy to avoid being criticised for not taking him. But when it gets to the World Cup, what's happened against Wales, against Latvia, against Serbia, Morgan Rodgers has played really well, but you can't judge him against those teams. You can't judge him against Latvia when the reality is he's going to be measured against France and Spain and Brazil and Argentina and all the teams that England never beat at major finals. So this is the problem. These easy games give you a false picture. Thomas Tuchel's first real challenge could be his last game in charge a knockout game at the World Cup so that's why you have this kind of phony war before a tournament because everybody knows that England are going to coast through the tournament coast through the qualifiers and get to the World Cup and have the same situation again when they really really need their big players to step up against France or Spain, they don't

46:50Stewart Robson:I think this is a big I do actually think even though I've been sort of rubbishing some of the results I'm not rubbishing them, just the standard of opposition I do think this Bellingham thing is a big issue in terms of, if you project it forward to the World Cup, and you look at the player's character, you look at the issue with the father at times, getting involved with not only Jude but the brother, if you look at the fact that Bellingham is having himself, there is no doubt about that, he's super confident in himself. my opinion is that Thomas Tuchel needs Jude Bellingham to have a really, really good season for Real Madrid going into this World Cup in a sense that when you get to the World Cup he plays them and he's in the team and he's playing well because that helps England clearly but if he's got a Jude Bellingham who is his form is average and he takes them and as Oggy says with no guarantee in that case he plays.

47:55Stewart Robson:What's the problem then in the squad, in the hotel, when you're five weeks away, six weeks away in North America and you've got a superstar who's brooding, who's unhappy, who may be a problem, not saying he is, may be a problem because he thinks he's the best player, he thinks he's the top man but he's not in the team. That's going to be a real headache for the camp. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen managers kick players out of camp. I've seen players walk out of a World Cup camp when they were told they weren't the number one player, the number one goalkeeper. I saw Andy Gorham do it. He left.

48:29Stewart Robson:And I think Tuchel needs to have Berlick for various reasons. For football reasons, he needs him to be playing really well. But I think for the camp reason, for the squad reason, he needs him to be playing well so that he can put him in the team. Because if he's not in the team, the management of this player, I think, during a major tournament could be an issue. and that is going to be, I think, really intriguing to watch. So I think the form of Jude Bellingham is very important for Thomas Tuchel going into this World Cup here in the United States in 2026. Jude Bellingham, obviously, once won the Golden Boy Award and so we're taking a look at the latest list of nominees and I need to call on your expertise here, Shaka, because when it comes to how these were picked...

49:13Stewart Robson:What's the criteria? Are you ready? It is a list composed of players chosen on algorithm by Football Benchmark Index. And the view is to empirically choose the strongest talents in international football. So what would you make of this, Shaka, given that you are the expert on algorithms?

49:32Mark Ogden:My name is drawn to Desiree Dewey. And the only name that kind of, well, the name that resonates higher than everybody else's, given his form, given the role he played with PSG and their successes last year. And it was by no stretch of any imagination a bit part role. So for me, while incredible talents, no question throughout, Desiree Dewey by far had the best season last year. Yeah, no Luminium out on this list. Also, I think he's nominated for the Senior Award on this, which automatically knocks him out of being nominated in the Golden Boy League. He's a real choker. Anyone stand out to you, Robbo?

50:15Well, I'm going to be biased because I watch Barcelona a lot, as you two do as well. And Khabarci, we always talk about forwards and midfield players, you know, the creative players. But Khabarci at 17 has been absolutely outstanding for a year and a half now. To understand what his manager Hansi Flick wants in playing a high-off slide line, he's not the biggest, he's not the quickest, but he's just been brilliant ever since he got in the team. He looks so composed, He looks as though he's got a great football brain. So I would go with Kabasi.

50:43Stewart Robson:But it's been a bit of a tricky one from this year, hasn't it? I mean, which I'm sure is not in the algorithm. Maybe not. He's been part of a... Maybe the algorithm needs to... I agree with Robbo. He was great last year, particularly for a teenager. Sarsini Woodkey, I know. Particularly as a teenager playing that very risky defensive line that they played, but played it pretty well for the most part, along with Martinez, who was very experienced beside him, which I'm sure was a huge help for him. He hasn't got that this year, which is part of the reason he struggled and Barcelona have struggled.

51:16Stewart Robson:But yeah, he never got much of the headlines when he came into the side because all the headlines were going to some of the other stars, particularly Laminya Mal. But he did stand out as a youngster who came in and wasn't fazed by some of these big physical players he was up against in La Liga. So, yeah. But I agree, Desiree Dewey was just part of that outstanding story, wasn't he? A few Premier League names in there as well, Mark. You see in the lakes of Nguyen Neri. Also, Nico O 'Reilly's in there.

51:49Mark Ogden:Yeah, Archie Graham-Lucas Bergfeld, which I'm surprised at because they both had, you know, OK seasons at Tottenham, but the Golden Ball. Listen, I think Laminia Miles should be in it. I think he probably won't win the main award because that would probably go to Dembele. So if you're missing out on that one, then he's the best young player in the world. He's 18 years old and he's nominated for the Golden Boy. It just seems ridiculous. So the algorithm needs to be tweaked. I think next year when he's 19, he'll still get in it. All right. Yeah, I mean, I'm big into that.

52:15Stewart Robson:It needs to be tweaked. Just speak to Shekka. Say the word and Shekka will get it all sorted out. But that's how the... I've never heard of that before. The 2020 final. Just another... Is this a new thing? The Golden Boy? The Golden Boy. No, it's been around for a little while. Is it? Yeah. I just thought it was another one of these made up so we could give a medal out to somebody. How everybody has to have a medal, they just look at the school race where every kid has to get a medal, even though when it comes last by 50 yards in case he gets upset. It's celebrating the games, youngsters. OK? It's true, isn't it?

52:45We're not all so young anymore, though. Stuart Robson needs to go to bed now. Well, I don't know.

52:49Stewart Robson:I mean, he does look as if he's in a funeral parlour. He might have a couple of sessions. We'll have a big show tomorrow as the show's coming from Germany tomorrow. Well, I've had a word with the producer. I had a word with our producer and said what a bad background it was, but he took no notice of me, Freddie. No, he took no notice whatsoever. Have you got any services to do when we leave? Like, you know, go out in the hearse?

53:13Stewart Robson:Well, okay, he's dressed for it. Oh, thanks. You've got to learn your German pronunciations, Stuart, so I'll let you go get some rest, okay? Well, we know he's not going for a pint with Derek. I will do. We know he's not going for a pint with Derek because he was in his bed about 7pm German time, which is quite a good for duck and duckling. Definitely. Thank you so much for being with us, Stuart. We look forward to hearing more from you. Mark Ogden will be back with us on Extra Time. La Liga is back this weekend. Barcelona back in action, looking to bounce back from that loss against Sevilla. They'll be taking on Girona.

53:42We'll also see Atleti against Osasuna. It's around Saturday out on Sunday. It's Etape taking on Real Madrid. All of these games available in English and Spanish on ESPN+. and as we mentioned Mark Ogden will be back to join Craig and Shaka and answer your questions on the latest edition of Extra Time check it out over on our YouTube channel if you've shopped online chances are you've bought from a business powered by Shopify you know that purple shop pay button you see at checkout the one that makes buying so incredibly easy that's Shopify and there's a reason so many businesses sell with it because Shopify makes it incredibly easy to start and run your business.

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55:01Your customers already love it. If you want to see less carts being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify. Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash network. Go to shopify.com slash network. Shopify.com slash network. Save$2 when you buy two cans of Superior Products Coverall tire dressing. Plus receive four times O rewards points now at O 'Reilly Auto Parts. Coverall delivers long-lasting shine. Visit your O 'Reilly Auto Parts store or OReillyAuto.com. That's all we've got time for on ESPN FC. Stick around, though. Mark Ogden will be back. Oh, fancy some German food.

55:44In extra time. And maybe we'll talk some more German food with Craig. See you in Extra Time.

55:52Welcome into the latest edition of Extra Time. We've got Craig Shaka and Mark Ogden here. I've had a text from Dan today. He said the doctor said he's progressing well. And he was in good spirits yesterday. Yeah, he was texting last night. Yeah, so he was actually offering to show pictures of the liver.

56:08Mark Ogden:Which Craig declined. I'd choose to. Yeah, I'm not. I wish I declined now. I wish I had too. Okay, on to our lighter subject.

56:18Stewart Robson:I offered to send him up a crate of cold beer. No, absolutely not. Just to try the new one out, see how it's going. Absolutely not. All right, let's get started with your questions. It's good to see that, obviously, in all seriousness, it's a big ordeal. Absolutely. You know, he was quite chilled, relatively chilled about it on the surface, but it was a big ordeal. It is a big ordeal for people. Big, long operation and that, So, you know, it's... Hopefully, we're at the other end now. His lovely wife did say that when he was first coming round because of the medication, he was talking nonsense.

56:52OK, no.

56:53Stewart Robson:He was just beating him. Sending all our love out to you, Dan, and we love to keep hearing your updates, as does everybody watch. He hasn't stretched his legs at all when he's in there. Made him another... All right, let's get your first question up then. I'm actually not sure which way around these go. I think it's this one. OK. Try it with the right way up. It's the right way up. I would imagine the questions start at the top. It's not great. I've just had to get my first readers, so let's see how we do. All right, Shaka, I think the first question's for you. Your World Cup odds really have Mexico above Holland, Germany and even Colombia.

57:28Is the algorithm a myth?

57:31Mark Ogden:You know, I have a confession to make. I just kind of forgot about Holland. And I'll be honest. I've paid zero attention to European qualifying. All the usuals are going to qualify. Because of this extended format and how many European teams are going to qualify, I really have paid zero attention to it. It's just... It feels predictable. I've paid zero attention. Does the algorithm just not like international teams?

58:01Stewart Robson:Hold on. Hold on. Hold your arses. War there. War there. War there. Right, let me give the explanation. Mexico, there's two teams in there. Are you trying to heal some wounds? No, no, no. Here's what I said yesterday.

58:18Mark Ogden:Norway?

58:18Stewart Robson:Here's what I said.

58:19Mark Ogden:They beat Moldova, 11. Here's what I said yesterday. They've not beat the World Cup. Hold on. Here's what I said yesterday. I don't think anybody outside of the top four are going to win the World Cup. So now I'm looking for who gets deep runs in the tournament.

58:32Stewart Robson:The United States?

58:34Mark Ogden:I think Mexico and United States will get deep runs because they'll get very easy draws as host nations He says the deep run is the last 16 now Norway

58:42Stewart Robson:I know they've been better recently Norway, but they haven't been a World Cup since I played against them in 1998 My neither neither of our law, but they are not on the top ten Mark I wonder what you've got to say about this

59:00Mark Ogden:Yeah, I'm surprised that Norway is so high, I've got to say I know they've got Erling Haaland, but I'm not sure about that I think Portugal are the team that could surprise Obviously the Ronaldo situation never goes away But they've got a lot of good players, Portugal And if they can get a run together They're certainly a team I saw them win the Nations League last season They're capable of beating anybody in the day So I'd say Portugal is a little bit higher than Norway You ready? OK. I think he's been taking some heat on the socials as well. The United States and New Mexico. Somebody wrote to me.

59:32Mark Ogden:I tell you, I bet they get around the 16th. Who? One of the two of those. If they get a soft-soap draw. They'll get a soft draw as hosts.

59:40Stewart Robson:They'll always get a soft draw as hosts. OK. Well, you can always change your mind in a World Cup. It's not... Oh, they did beat their mind. To be fair, they've beat a dribble Ecuador. Beat Australia. which some of our colleagues went a little bit OTT as pair and then they beat the mighty Australia at home it was their first defeat under their coach Tony Popovich

1:00:09Stewart Robson:when have Australia ever been a juggernaut? you love this international you all over all the international I think you should be on Football Americas you know a lot you could have my spot Listen, don't be silly. Listen. It's not professional to not watch the qualifiers.

1:00:29Mark Ogden:I don't watch your qualifiers. Neither did I. Except for the days you're on, obviously. It's a hard watch. Mark, I love this question. Would Mark be a happier lad if he, say, covered Real Madrid or maybe Mallorca for a few years? This is my deal. I am happy Why have they shoehorned you

1:00:53Stewart Robson:Into this sort of Mr Mr Grumpy I've had the same over the years I don't know That's not a remark Any by the way

1:01:06Mark Ogden:Listen I'd be more than happy To go to Real Madrid and cover Real Madrid for a while Because Madrid is one of the best cities in Europe But no no I'm more than happy with my lot In the Premier League I see plenty of good football at Anfield at the Emirates, at Stamford Bridge, at the Etihad, not so much at Old Trafford, but there's plenty going in the Premier League, so no, no, I'm happy enough as it is. OK. Don't make Mark any happier. I'll tell you what,

1:01:28Stewart Robson:don't make Mark any happier, whatever you do. You put Augie next to Rob Dawson, oh my God. He's comedic.

1:01:38You have to be like that if you're in the Manchester region. It's fitting. It's rainy. Horrible, measurable. Yeah.

1:01:45Stewart Robson:All right. I mean, there's not... People say that, honestly, it's like... It's just the job, isn't it? You can't just sit here and go... I mean, you can if you want. That's what I tried to do. But sometimes you need words. All right. Come on, questions. Milan is supposedly annoyed at how Pochettino and the US men's national team handled Pulisic during this past international window because he was risked when there were no points involved and Pulisic was dealing with an ankle issue. Does Milan have a valid point checker?

1:02:18Mark Ogden:The US are not going to play where there's points involved till next summer. But at some point, they have to start playing what you think, shades of, what you think are their best team. Now, how serious that ankle injury is, is it to say to the coach the play or not, or what kind of role he plays?

1:02:42Stewart Robson:So, no, I don't put this on Pochettino at all. Do you remember Jan came out with one of his ridiculous statements? I'm just going to go through all the pundits. Do you remember Jan came out and said, when Bayern Munich were going to ridiculously threaten to sue Canada over Alphonso Davies getting an injury? And we all said, I've never heard so much garbage in my life. And Jan said, I think they've got a case. Which, you know, absolutely ridiculous. But my point is, how do you stop this? You know, a manager wanted... Back in the old days, managers just stopped, players gone. Come up with any old...

1:03:23Stewart Robson:I've seen it. I was part of it. Any old cods wallop of a story, and a player wouldn't go. But the rules and laws around the international break have changed now. And Pulisic was fit to start the game. Pochettino's under pressure. They haven't played particularly well. He's searching for the right back. So this is just another club v-country. More words. Bayern Munich in Canada, Milan in the US. Barcelona in Spain, Flamie in Mal. It happens. Club managers do not want their players playing in games that are seemingly meaningless. But they're meaningless to the club manager, but they're not, and to us maybe, but they're not meaningless for the most part to the international manager who's under pressure and he's trying to figure out the best way forward to get the best results.

1:04:21Stewart Robson:So it's just tough. Yeah, tough. All right, for Mark, any truth to the UAE consortium takeover news?

1:04:31Mark Ogden:Well, I mean, this always raises its head when United have a bit of a bad patch and there's a little bit of stuff behind the scenes, but I don't think it's as credible as some United fans had hoped it would be. You know, the UAE, certainly Abu Dhabi, have got Man City cornered and Dubai have never really shown any major interest in buying a football club. We had a flirtation in Liverpool maybe 15 years ago, but nothing came of it. Dubai is interested in horse racing, so I don't see the UAE being a serious proposition for Man United right now. I think the Glazers are happy there. They don't want to sell because they see more money coming down the line from various different things.

1:05:02Mark Ogden:So I think the UAE thing is just a bit of a red herring. OK, another one for you, Mark. what's going on in terms of a salary cap and which clubs would and wouldn't like? Well this is part of the Premier League that they're trying to vote on what's called an anchoring system which I won't kind of bore you guys with the details of it but it basically means that it's a kind of a salary cap by itself but it's never going to work for the biggest clubs in the Premier League because the moment the Premier League has a salary cap it means that they can't compete with Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, the clubs in Saudi Arabia when it comes to paying the best players because the best players are going where the money is and the money won't be in the Premier League anymore.

1:05:39Mark Ogden:So it's just not feasible. Why would the Premier League vote for a system which makes the league weaker and less exciting, less attractive to the best players? So I don't see who it suits and why it's even being suggested.

1:05:52Stewart Robson:It's the old Turkey voting for Christmas routine, isn't it? Not that Turkeys can vote. I don't believe so. They wouldn't vote, would they? Hi, Shaq. You like Turkey? Yeah, I do.

1:06:08Mark Ogden:And Christmas. I like turkey and Christmas. I'd vote for them both. Mark, you're a popular boy today. Mark, is Jude Bellingham overrated? Would he make the starting 11 for Spain or France? Do you know what I'm saying? I think he is. I think he is overrated. I think he had a great start at Real Madrid and I think he's kind of living off that first three months at Real. Look, he's a good player. He's a top player. but is he in Real Madrid's top five most important players? Might squeak at number five, but I don't... The situation with Bellingham, I don't quite know his best position is. I don't think he does either.

1:06:43Mark Ogden:He's not a defensive midfielder. He's not... I don't think he worked hard enough to be an attacking midfielder, so I don't quite know where he fits in. So I think there is probably a little bit of his reputation has been embellished a bit because he plays for Real Madrid. And, you know, yeah, I think he is overrated. There you go. Can I... Who, outside of Harry Kane, in the England squad, gets into France or Spain squad?

1:07:09Stewart Robson:A little harsh, that question. I think Declan Rice plays for... I think Declan Rice is good enough as a midfielder.

1:07:21Yeah. You watch Jude Bellingham a lot, though. Do you think it's harsh to say that he's overrated?

1:07:31Stewart Robson:well I think he has to prove himself again you know that first six or seven months of his first season when we sat here every weekend and went my god this is incredible not generally his all round performance but popping up at the right place at the right time another goal, another goal, another winner there was a great goal in his first classical he played at the Monjuica I believe, two goals late on but if you look back at those a lot of that goal scoring feat that he was on at the time a lot of it the ball sort of just dropped to him now he did score a couple of fantastic goals and made some great runs but there was a few of them where the ball sort of bubbled around and he was right place right time once that goes away then there has to be other facets to your game and that certainly went away last year under Ancelotti Everybody struggled last year, Nantra.

1:08:26Stewart Robson:That's what I'm saying. He wasn't the only one. And he was shifted from pillar to post. As Belverde was, as Camavinga was, and others. So that sort of neutralised what we saw this season before. But I do think he has... I think it was a big mistake not to have the surgery at the end of the season. Maybe there was pressure on him from inside Madrid to go to this ridiculous club World Cup. I don't know. but I think for any player that's a mistake. You have to give yourself the best pre-season, the best chance to start the season, particularly when you're under as much pressure at a club as Real Madrid.

1:09:02Stewart Robson:So to answer the question, I'm not sure overrated is the right word, but I don't think he's a guaranteed starter. And even though Alonso put him in that Madrid derby, which was a managerial mistake, and that wasn't Bellingham's fault, I do feel that unless he really pulls his weight, I don't think, never mind England I don't think he's a guaranteed starter for Real Madrid

1:09:26Mark Ogden:So then I think it's still a little early to see whether he will be under Xavi Alonso, to your point had this outstanding first season for Real was he third in the Ballon d 'Or voting but then last season nobody lived up to that previous season's expectation, whether we're talking Vinicius Junior, you look through all Real Madrid's squad nobody had the season that they did two seasons ago. And then, you're right, for some reason, Real Madrid kind of made the Club World Cup a priority and him playing in that. So he's just coming back. So I find the question a little premature. OK. Full time, will tell.

1:10:08Mark Ogden:I'm just being a little bit facetious here, but just bear with me a minute. If you switch Scott McTominay and Jude Bellingham from Napoli and Real Madrid, would you notice the difference? I mean, in terms of what they do. Don't know, Mark, would you? At the moment, I think Bellingham...

1:10:27Stewart Robson:Yeah, it just sounds a bit silly, but Bellingham's got more to his game all round. But in terms of being a threat in the opposition box as a midfielder, then at the moment, you'd have to say McTominay's a bigger threat.

1:10:41Mark Ogden:I'm having Bellingham all day long. Over McTominay, I'm having Bellingham.

1:10:45Stewart Robson:No, I mean, I don't think it's not... Listen, I don't think we should... You know, I think we have some credibility here to guard against. We're not comparing Scott McTominay and Jude Bellingham. No, I'm not doing that. No, and Augie's not doing that. He's just saying, currently, the way McTominay's taken his game to the level as he did in Italy, is arguably one of the biggest midfield threats from deep, scoring goals, Bellingham has to get back to that. This is bread and butter, isn't it? Because he's not an intricate... He's not a moderate or a crux, is he? His game's about physicality. His game's about running, running with the ball, running in the timing of runs.

1:11:37Stewart Robson:Frank Lampard did that I think Frank was a young player when I was coming through and then I watched him and commented on Frank maybe had odd parts of his game where he wasn't a Steven Gerrard but his passing range or a Paul Scholes but year on year on year on year he was delivering goals and goals driving into the box shots from outside the box, timing his runs and he was brilliant at it And he perfected the consistency, pretty much, of that. That's what Jude Bellingham needs to do. And, you know, time will tell whether he's going to do that consistently at Real Madrid. I don't know. Big year for him.

1:12:19Stewart Robson:Big season for that boy. Yeah. Big season for him. And La Liga getting back underway this weekend. We'll be talking a lot more about it, no doubt, on the later editions of Extra Time. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll be back tomorrow. In fact, the team in Germany will be back tomorrow. Join them.

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