Xabi's Last Stand?

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1:20Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas, brought by Craig Burley and Ali Moreno. We'll kick things off in Spain. Real Madrid taking on Manchester City. Xavi Alonso under pressure, of course. Real Madrid without Kylian Mbappe. However, it would be Rodrigo who would open the scoring for Madrid. His first goal in 33 domestic games. However, City would fight back O 'Reilly, scoring 10 minutes before the break. And then Rudiger bringing down Haaland. And it would be then the Norwegian to step up, converting the penalty. that proved to be the winner. From on this, let's welcome in, shall we?

1:50Jürgen Klinsmann with us as is. Frank Leberth, we'll be hearing from them in a moment. But of course, the big talking point of the full-time whistle is whether or not Xavi Alonso will be in charge of Real Madrid at the weekend. All our sources are saying that yes, he will. The reason being is that Real Madrid competed in the second half. They weren't embarrassed. That's where we've become. That's where we are with Real Madrid these days. Yeah, I think so. Well, if you watch the Liga every week, if you watched Celda Di Vigo a few days ago, if you watch a lot of their games, they created more. And I'm not saying this Xabi Alonso is going to be in this job at Christmas or beyond.

2:28But the one thing that would have seen them go tonight was a real pasting. And it could have gone that way. But also they could have won that game because they created more chances, to my mind, than I've seen them do for a while. They had a bit of pace about the game. Yeah, they're open at the back. Is this where we're at? Yeah. Real Madrid played better than they did against Celta Vigo. Against the Manchester City side, who conceded four against Aston Villa, against three against Leeds. And we're 5-1 up against Fulham and almost lost. And Real Madrid can't score in the second half. That's where we are.

3:01And that's the thin line at the moment that is saving Xabi Alonso. That's how soft this, how low the bar is. Possibly. That was one of Real Madrid's better performances of the season. They lost. It was one of their better performances. and I think that will be just enough, and according to the sources you said, I think that will be just enough to save his skin for now. It was quite ironic, really, that one of the guys that's been the biggest problem for him, Vinicius Jr., outspoken about his game time, outspoken about the manager, even suggesting that players were not listening and he'd lost the dressing room.

3:36He was one of the guys tonight, along with Bellingham, that could have taken a bit more pressure off Xabi Alonso because he had two fantastic chances, and he was the guy that let his manager down again. Furthermore, if we're going to go down the path of Vinny Jr., with Kylian Mbappe sitting on the bench, unavailable, because obviously he was not fit, then it is the opportunity for Vinny Jr. to say, yes, this is my team, like it's always been. It's my group. It's my opportunity to then have that sort of performance and carry this team to a win, and the opportunities fell to him, and it didn't quite happen for him, not for Real Madrid.

4:13Now, on the whole picture of Real Madrid, what I would say is, if we're basing it on today's performance, on today's game, you don't fire Xavi Alonso. If you're basing it over... You've all gone soft. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They've won the Champions League more than anyone. They've won two games in eight matches. If you would just listen, it would be a wonderful back and forth, it'd be a great conversation, interesting and engaging for everybody. But just listen for a second. When you're talking about Real Madrid, we're talking about the totality of the season and what led up to this game.

4:48You put all of that together, then you can make the argument. But you don't fire him after today. You fire him after he lost against Celta de Vigo at home. And it's not a matter of going soft or not. It's just watching the game. And today they were good. Real Madrid were better today than they have been over the last month and a half. That's not difficult. What? How do you know? That's a different conversation. You've been under the knife. I tell you what, I was on a load of drugs, but I'm sure. You were in a coma. Why? Let's be honest about it. I mean, you're asking us. I mean, the question is, will they sack him?

5:29I think the answer is probably no. I just can't believe we sat here after Real Madrid lose again. at home against Manchester City, who aren't the Manchester City they were a few years ago, and go, no, at least they tried. No, no, no, no, before we go to the boys, we're selling it. It sounds so Manchester United. Oh, boy. We're selling it as how they will perceive it, how the president will perceive it, how the media may perceive it. I honestly don't think he's got much life left here, and I'll guarantee you one thing, if you lose against Alaves at the weekend, he's 100 % gone. Our graphics department hate Real Madrid.

6:08Look, they got one goal. Come on. You had all this time off and you want people fired. I don't... Jürgen, I just know we know what Florentino Perez is like. We've seen him in the past. Sack Vincente de Vosque for crying out loud after they won the league. Yet on this occasion, a second-half performance against Manchester City where you still lose the game. But come on, at least you tried. What was the second half? They were quite good in the first half up to your point. Okay, they went in down at half time. But they started the game. But the rhetoric seems to be, yes, but they didn't give in. They didn't roll over.

6:40They didn't get humiliated. Well, if you'd listened to yesterday's show, I said... I was. You were on the show and you didn't listen to me. You said, if they go in and get humiliated, it'll be over. And the fact that they lost, but they weren't humiliated. I said yesterday, if they'd taken a walloping today, he'd be gone. I know. They did not. But they still lost. Go to Jürgen. I will. Thank you very much. Please, come to us. Jürgen, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you. No, I think, you know, as Alejandro said, you know, what is the bigger picture of Real Madrid? The bigger picture is to win trophies this year under Javi Alonso.

7:17Now, there has a lot of up and downs, a lot of speculations, a lot, but that's Real Madrid. And there's always a lot of rumours, always a lot of arguments, heated discussions everywhere. And, yeah, we're in the middle of those heated discussions. But the fact is, you know, they played a good game. They lost, but they played a good game. I think, you know, he's working every day hard to get the relationships going and get the relationships right. You know, I mean, today, Vinicius Junior, I mean, besides he missed two good chances, but there was a lot of energy. There was a lot of goodwill. There was, I think, it was a good performance overall.

7:56You got soft as well. But what I want to lead to is, you discussed now if the manager should be sacked or not. We are in December. We are five months or four months into the season. They're still in the fight for La Liga to win the Spanish title with Barcelona alongside. They're now eighth of ninth in the Champions League table. They probably will qualify in the top eight because they still have two games to go. So everything is still open. he's just kind of fighting his way through, figuring out how to deal with Real Madrid, which is a completely different ballgame than Bayer Leverkusen, as we said.

8:35And he's fighting day in, day out. So, I mean, it seems like there's a joy sometimes of the public or the media to say, OK, who's the next coach that needs to leave? Who's the next coach that gets fired? And what's then? What is then? So if Real Madrid fires Xabi Alonso, what's now? Who steps in now? Thank you. If the locker room is not doing well right now, then why should there be a new coach fixing the locker room right away? So the locker room sometimes needs to fix itself. Mbappé, Rodrigo, Vinicius Jr., Rüdiger. I mean, Rüdiger today, that penalty, we can talk about it. It's maybe a soft penalty, but it's not as soft as the one yesterday from Bastoni.

9:16But both penalties are right. Both are fouls. So now you're the manager of Xabi Alonso and Rudiger does a foul like that. He's wrestling him down. There was no need to do it. He was not even watching the ball in that moment. And if he's a little bit more unlucky, he actually gets sent off the field at the end of the game where he does another unnecessary foul right on the box on the side. If he gets the second yellow, he's red. He's out. So now what is the fault now of Xabi Alonso? That's not his fault. So Xabi is trying to kind of swim himself through that difficult time. and all we do as media people maybe is, OK, we speculate when it's the time to fire him.

9:54I think he should continue and he should prove everybody wrong. OK. Frank, I'll go to you a bit later on because I want to carry on this conversation with Jürgen. Say that Xavi Alonso gets sacked tonight. Say you get a phone call from Florentino tomorrow and says, come and be the coach for Real Madrid. Obviously, you're going to accept. What do you do if you go in there as the new manager? As you say, if all the players aren't putting in 100 % for you, How do you change that narrative? How do you change that characteristic within those players if Xavi Alonso clearly hasn't been able to do that?

10:27You have to have no answer before you jump in there and figure it out yourself. So those are clubs. And I went into Bayern Munich. You know, you go there, you have to go. You get an offer from Bayern Munich, you get an offer from Manchester United, you get an offer from Real Madrid. You as a manager, if that's what you want to do as a job, you have to take it. You have to try it. You know, figuring it out. hoping that maybe the players are in a good moment and instead of hitting the post, they hit the back of the net. So you have to take that risk. But before you take it, there's no guarantee that you will figure it out there.

11:01Now we speculate about Carlo Ancelotti. Will he figure out Brazil for the World Cup? Question mark. No, he doesn't speak Portuguese, but it's Brazil. So can you deny Brazil to go to the World Cup with Brazil? No, you can't. There are offers out there, and Xabi took that offer because they're not coming along every day. When these big clubs, the top eight or ten teams in the world, come to you, knock at your door, you have to say yes, and then you throw yourself into the cold water. And then hopefully it works out, and if it doesn't work out, then at least you gave it a shot. And you get a nice payoff.

11:35Frank? Yeah, what I can say, you're on your own, Dan, in that discussion. because really the problematic there is you play the angry fan and you go on the side, you say, we have to sack the guy. But what else? And Jürgen eluded it. What can you prepare if you sack him and get somebody else? And we have seen last year with Ancelotti, the same issues that's not coming from the coach. And yeah, when Rudiger makes the mistake, the penalty, what can Asha Beronzo do? And also, if Vinicius Junior, instead of being spectacular, is just showing some effectiveness on the last thing that he has, that's a goal.

12:20And everybody has another speech then. So, you know, instead of saying, oh, we have to change the coach because it doesn't work like that way with Xavi Alonso. No, it doesn't work that way. You were mentioning Manchester United, they're not the same level. But you were mentioning Manchester United, which decided to change coaches. for which result. We realized that, in fact, that was a player's problem, player's issue, locker room issue, but never the coach's issue because the coach cannot do anything if they don't have the good players and the player will try to find the right chemistry. That's the problem that Real Madrid had today.

12:54It was maybe a lack of chance as well. You have to put that in the equation because that's part of the football. When you hit the post, like Hendrik did, if he goes in, that's another scenario. So I think we have to be a little bit patient in that world of the emergency of a dictator is going first. But Man United, you can't compare it. Man United bought bad players and gave new contracts to bad players. They're superstars at Real Madrid. And I think this conversation about, well, you can't just go in and change the dressing room and who's going to replace him? We'll fall flat on his face if they lose against Alves.

13:29So we're talking about a few days. So if he's not sacked, and he may be, but it seems unlikely, he's by the skin of his teeth. There are Alaves at the weekend who I think sit just below mid-table. So they're a decent side, but they're a side that Real Madrid have struggled against because they've struggled against most, home and away. You know, they had three draws on the road before they were able to win Athletic Club. And we all thought that was the turnaround. Then they play Celta Viga at home, first game and four. And they're horrible. So he's, you know, he's hanging by the skin of his teeth.

14:05It's as simple as that. And the only thing that's going to save him is results. Not that there's nobody else out there. Not that, you know, the players are not doing this, that and the next thing. Because we know Real Madrid will make changes and they'll make short-term changes if that's what they need to do. But I think tonight is just about salvageable for him. Unfortunately for you, you've turned into a less punter. No, no, no. Here's the thing. I'm not saying that Xavi Alonso should be sacked tonight. I'm just saying how low have Real Madrid come that they get a pat on the back for trying.

14:36It sounded a lot like you were making the argument for Xavi Alonso to be sacked tonight. Something we're sat here going, oh yeah, but at least they tried. At least they put in an effort. This is Real Madrid for crying out loud. You've just lost at home. You've lost two of your lives. But it's Man City. It was one of the tougher games at home. It's Man City. It's Man City. You have been slagging off their defence. Well, yeah, and that's right. And once we get to Real Madrid couldn't score. And when we get to City, I will tell you why they probably won't win the Premier League or this competition when you see they're defending.

15:02But yet we get Real Madrid a pass. Because they were poor in front of goal. If we just remove emotion off of it, off of the decision to sack Xavi Alonso, and just think about it for a little bit. This whole beginning of the season has been about Xavi Alonso and Real Madrid empowering Xavi Alonso over players like Vinny Jr. And of course he had the best start any manager's ever had. Don't mark truck. And at that point, genius. He's given this team structure, discipline, which they didn't have last season. And he is telling Vinny Jr. that he has a role to play in this team. Whether he accepted or not, there is a role to be playing this team.

15:43And you're going to do it because it's Xavi Alonso. If you're Real Madrid and a couple of weeks later you turn around and fire this manager, You're now empowering players like Vinny Jr. to blow up the locker room anytime that they feel like something has gone against them. Once you allow the players to have all the power, which they seemingly already do, then there is no manager that walks into that door and is able to make decisions because you know full well that they'll go above you and they'll go behind you and they'll go around you so that they can get you off and out the door because they're not happy with you.

16:19You cannot, as a club, empower the manager to begin with and then two weeks later say, no, we're not empowering him anymore. We're actually taking the side of guys like Vinny Jr., who have been pitching a fit over the course of the season. Let's focus on the team that won for a moment, shall we, Jürgen? Are Manchester City any good?

16:39Oh, absolutely, Manchester City is good. Absolutely. No, I mean, I think it took him a while to get into the game. And then after Rodrigo's goal, they came alive. And O 'Reilly's goal, then the equalizer, and then obviously Rodrigo's foul, a necessary foul on Erling Haaland, and they gave them the penalty and gave them the lead. But I think that it was a very, very competitive match. It was very physical. I liked it. I liked the one-against-one battles in many parts of the field. So it was a very good game. It was a very good game. And I think that's what both coaches probably will point out in their press conferences afterwards.

17:20And it finished like that. Real Madrid had enough chances to score at least an equalizer to get away with a point. But what I really liked on Real's side then, and also on the side of Xavi Alonso, I liked the body language of the players. They were positive. Jude Bellingham knows that he has to do better with his chance, that he has to score there. but he kept going and he kept going. Rodrigo seems to be back, is more dangerous. And overall, it seems like the team was functioning well. And now you put in there Mpapé on top of it and then I'm not that pessimistic there. With Man City, it's a team that can unbalance you in a split second.

18:02They have so much quality in there. They need very little and if it's needed, then they need maybe a penalty. But they get it done. So, yeah, it was a very, very fun watch. I really had a lot of fun to watch. There's a lot to like about Man City going forward and there's just a lot to dislike. Are they an elite side, I suppose? That's the better way of putting it. No, they're elite going forward. They can't defend. Right. I mean, them and Barcelona would be a great game. It would be 5-5. We're just in the first half. Tin-tin. Because this Real Madrid side don't normally create this many chances.

18:36They have got a wonderful goalkeeper. they've got two really good centre-backs in Diaz and Guardiola proper defenders and then that's the end the end Nico O 'Reilly's done a decent job Matias Nunes does his best but they're too easy to get in behind and the start of the season defensively they were not bad if you looked at their numbers they were not bad and that was papering over the cracks even in the Premier League the opposing teams have started to find the cracks and I don't think there's a hope in hell winning this competition if you're just, if your fundamentals are just, were great going forward.

19:13You have to be able to defend. You have to be a good unit at the back. You cannot leave the amount of space that Manchester City left in this game, I don't think, and win this competition. I think it'll be Barcelona's downfall as well unless they can remedy that. So the answer to your question is going forward, not an issue. They've got people that will score goals. They've got people that come off the bench. They've got people that will create and they're very good on the eye. But bottom line, they cannot. Yeah, and you look at those full backs, Frank, and I think that's what sets alarms off, doesn't it, if you're a Manchester City fan?

19:44Yes, exactly. And that's the real thing. And on top of it, it's in a lot of time, you know, going on the flanks is very crucial. And if you cannot defend on that side, on those sides, you're going to struggle. And as well as could have happened today, I mean, congrats to them. And it's hard to criticize a team who just won away from home against Real Madrid. But at the end of the day, when I look and imagine the game again, I say, well, it's more because Real Madrid made mistakes, Courtois and then Rudiger. But it's also because Real Madrid couldn't score goals in the time that they had to. And it's more because of that that Manchester City won, that because of what they showed and then how they performed.

20:34So they did well, but not enough. And I go with Craig, not enough good enough, I would say, defensively because they weren't there. Wow. And we've been harsh. 22 minutes into this show, I've tried to get Alonso's sack. We're having to go to Manchester City, yet they won at the Bernabeu. Well, yes, but... Which is not great shape. Right, but you're the host of this show, and you led the conversation by saying, are Manchester City any good? Yes. So, look, you're leading the witness. Yeah, that's fair enough. That's fair enough. If we're going to focus on the fullbacks for Manchester City, and you were asking that question to Frank, good example, Rodrigo called today.

21:13Nico Riley is cut far too inside, far too close to the center backs, and then he allows Rodrigo to get in behind, and he's too late to recover. If that were a one-off, you think, that's all right, we'll let it go. But it happens regularly. On the other side, Mateos Nunez is one centimeter away from giving a penalty three minutes into the match. And that's how close this game was. We're talking about it could have been a penalty, might have been a penalty for Real Madrid had it been, again, one centimeter further and into the 18-yard box. Mateus Nunez will always be a problem because he's not a right back.

21:45Beyond that, I look at this team, and they don't have to play Barcelona for it to be 5-5. They played Fulham, and it was 5-4. Yeah, that's true. And so you don't have to be a great team offensively to expose their frailties. and their frailties don't just stop in the outside back positions. Through the midfield, you can play around this team, and if you get them stretched, you get them in transition, they're not stopping you. So for Manchester City, this is a great result. It's a great result because we saw something today from Manchester City that we don't often see grinding and defending and hanging on as best as they could.

22:20Some of it had to do with the fact that Real Madrid missed opportunities, but you have to appreciate the efforts of Ruben Diaz, the efforts of Barley and the effort of players that don't really want to defend, but were forced to do so today. And at the very least, we're able to grind out what I think is a big result for them going forward and thinking, you know what, we have toughness about us defensively that perhaps we haven't proven in years past. Jürgen, what do you do with a player like Doku, who was just unplayable, for example, against Liverpool, some good moments again today, yet there's part of you surely as a coach that just want consistency from him?

22:57And that's what you're working on with him, on consistency. So you talk to him and that's what Vibe Caldula is doing. That's why he's a master in communicating with the players. And he sees the potential of a doku and his, yeah, his up and downs and his positive and negatives. And that's what you go through an entire season. So now we're in early December. And, yeah, I mean, I would say February, March, April, that's when crunch time comes along in Champions League and in the Premier League, obviously, then you want to see him improved. You want to see him matured. And this is the fun part of the work of a manager, is that you can influence that development in a club team on a daily base.

23:40And I'm sure that Bep is doing that. I mean, where was he a year ago, two years ago? Where is he now? And what does he need to improve? What does he need to learn? And those are the daily topics that they go through and I'm sure that Bep knows exactly how to talk to him, how to communicate and improve him. I only bring out because it's something you were bringing up during the show, during the match we were watching together, just Doku just not doing enough when it comes to penetrating defenses. And in and around the box it was kind of the same trick all the time and you've got to come up with different ways to beat defenders, particularly better teams you play against, the elite defenders will just figure you out and it's not just about pace, they'll get themselves in good positions and I think he does the same trick a little bit too much in terms of coming inside and yeah, it's a learning curve for him but and again, some of the weaker teams in the Premier League he just runs over the top of them but I don't think you can play that way against the better teams with Doku, you know Foden, Silva, Cherki Haaland and leaving Nico Gonzalez and even talking about Rodri coming back in Rodri would have to be Superman I don't think you can be you get away with it tonight but you saw how open they were I just don't think long term Arsenal haven't won anything yet really but when you look at how strong the midfield is when you look at Liverpool last year their strength was three solid midfielders Sabozlai, McAllister, Gravenberg who could all do a little bit of everything and you look at City and it really is on the shoulders of one guy to sort of be there as a bit of a shield when they're all off being flexible and getting involved and then when they cough that ball up, as they did quite a lot tonight, and Real Madrid get on the front foot, there's just so many gaps.