Australia's EV Battleground: Tesla, BYD & the Electric Price War!

33:35Was it November last year? No, no. It would have been early March this year. Sorry, March. Yes, yes. And I met some of the team, Elliot and Imogen, and that was fantastic. But what really stood out to me was the test drives, the fact that people come in and there were so many cars. Like I walked around going, I've driven some of these, you know, and we drive a few cars here. and the fact that, yeah, you're not in a dealership. There's no pressure. It's just going. Drive three, four, five different brands right there. Yeah. I think that's a huge bonus and a good benefit of a show like this. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that again.

34:19How it goes in Melbourne. I mean, I think we've just passed. I can't confirm this number, but it's very near it. We've done over 130 ,000 test drives around the world, which is bonkers, isn't it? It's crazy. That's wild. Because often at those events, I don't see any of that. That's at the other end of the hall or whatever. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not actually aware of that going on. So that was, you know, when I heard that figure, I went, that is crazy. I had no idea because it's just, yeah, it's a big part of the show. Yeah. And I think the other thing we always try and do is get other stuff that isn't cars, particularly in Australia.

34:56I mean, the adoption of rooftop solar, of battery. I mean, the recent news about the batteries, over 90 ,000 new batteries have been installed, which is the kind of capacity of a mid-sized nuclear power plant for a couple of hours if you need it. You know, if they're all connected to the grid. I mean, it is a remarkable step change. That stuff is fascinating. It is. And there's, yeah, there's some reasonable rebates and incentives too in certain states in Australia. So it's good to see some of this stuff. And, yeah, getting back to the non-car stuff that you have at the show, I was flabbergasted in Sydney seeing there was a Candela boat there, and apparently they sold a couple of these.

35:41And these things are full carbon fibre. They're like 100 – I think they're half a million bucks or something. And not cheap. No. But there was also like there was a submarine. There was power tools. There was – and like the – Loads of e-mobility, loads of bikes and scooters. Yeah, the last mile stuff. I love that stuff. Yep, scooters and I think they even had go-karts and stuff. Like it was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so. Definitely, I think we can confidently say it's a good family day out because we had a surprising amount of families at the most recent show in the UK. I was amazed at how many, you know, loads of kids there.

36:18And we do put on a lot of, I mean, that was the frustration for me. I had to go and do, I was walking through the venue. I had to go and present a talk and there was a big table full of Lego, different coloured bricks, there was a box full of yellow bricks a box full of red, a box full of red I was going, oh! And like really tons of bricks, like when you were a kid, you only had a little pile and this was like a monster box. Nice. And that was seraph. Typically, loads of kids doing stuff and quite a few dads. Nice, I love that. Weird spaceships and things. I've just gotten to Lego with my four and six-year-old sons.

36:55So, yeah, it's definitely a good thing. Now, earlier I mentioned about this, Car Sales did a survey recently. We had about 3 ,000 respondents. So you were talking about, you know, that shift in perhaps in a broader acceptance of EVs in Australia. So as well as, generally speaking, consumer confidence being up, EV prices are dropping. And we've seen a lot of Chinese brands as well. When you go and you buy your car, they'll often throw in like a wall box or a year's free charging, things like that. And I think those have helped seen EV consideration rise among the people we interview for the first time in three years.

37:40So that's a really, really positive shift there. So it was something like 30 % in November 24. We conduct these EV surveys two or three times a year. Right. And it's now 37 % in the last one, which was mid this year. So that's gone up quite a lot from a third to, you know, a lot more than a third. Yes. My math sucks. No, no, me too. It's very dangerous. Whenever I mention figures, there will always be a comment. I don't think you meant 50%. I think you meant 50. Look, I've got to put a... I'm going to put a disclaimer. All my comments on percentages and numbers may or may not be completely accurate.

38:20But then do you also do second-hand sales through the company? Is that something you do? Yeah, yeah. So car sales is first and foremost. It's like I'm not sure what would be in the UK. Is it Trader? Is there a… Yes, there are companies. I'm trying to think now. I've seen the big – there's like big warehouse things that got – So this is – Yes, I can't remember. Cars House is basically – there's a huge amount of new cars for sale, so a lot of dealers will put their cars on there, and there's obviously a lot of second-hand cars as well. And then – so that's the majority of the company, and then we've got our little editorial team, which is about 10 or 12 of us, and we do, you know, all the usual stuff.

39:10We do the YouTube and we do written and we do Instagram. We even got a bit of TikTok now. So I've had a go at that. Well done. Made a fool of myself there. That was awesome. But yeah, car sales, it's a very large, you know, it's basically number one in the space. and in terms of secondhand EVs, I think it's pretty similar to the rest of the world where you are seeing some pretty steep depreciation, which is great for secondhand buyers, not so good for the sellers. No, no. I think part of this is because you see a lot of discounting as well. You know, like Elon Musk will come out and go, oh, we've slashed$10 ,000 off the price of a Model Y.

40:00And it's like, oh, it doesn't really help the dudes that just bought it. They just bought one the week before. Yeah, yes. So, and yeah, a lot of the Chinese brands coming in will launch something and then maybe realise they need to add incentives or cut the price. So, yeah, look, I think that those secondhand prices probably over time might bounce back. But at the moment, and maybe... I mean, certainly that's the really big shift we've seen this year. And the big change is the growth of the secondhand market. Because, I mean, there was always a secondhand market, but it was tiny. Yeah. Because there wasn't that many cars, you know.

40:43So back in 2012, you might be able to get a secondhand Zoe. Yeah. Back in 2015, you might be able to get a second-hand Renault Zoe, or a Nissan LEAF. Yes. There just weren't any. Whereas this year, I think the peculiarity of this year, why it's gone up so much is there was a really large number of business companies that had a big leased fleet that came to the end of the lease. So they then went on to the market. So there was this sudden explosion of second-hand car sales that we hadn't really witnessed before. And then that really shows on the roads. so you were seeing a lot more people with well just the other day there was a woman who was at my local supermarket where there is a charger and she'd never she'd never used it before and she was on the phone to her husband who was obviously quite irate and I went I know this I could hear him and I was standing so I said I don't want to get involved but you know I have done this before I can show you how to do it and I plugged the car in for her and it went and it started charging.

41:43But that was a good sign that there's people who've never, you know, that was the first time she'd ever driven it. Yeah. And she needed to charge it at the supermarket. Or I think he told her, it's really easy just plugging in. But she was like looking at the two ends of the cable. Because if you've never done it before, I mean. Oh, it's confronting. It's not. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's certainly not the easiest thing to do. And, you know, there's different plugs and there's different types of charges. One thing I've noticed going to public fast charges, DC charges, is there's a weird sort of camaraderie.

42:22You rock up. They're all full, but you go, oh, how long are you going to be? What have you got there? I've got this thing. Oh, I'm a journalist. It's not mine. Oh, can I have a look? Yeah, can I have a look? Yeah, yes. Have a sticky beak. And, yeah, I don't think I've had that too many times at the petrol station when I'm filling up with the... Actually, that was a few years ago. Tesla gave us a Model X in Sydney that they wanted delivering to Brisbane. That was a chore, having to drive that amazing luxury car. Anyway, it's, I think, a thing that I've experienced in other countries, but it can be particularly acute in Australia because it's a long way.

43:03I was desperate for the gents. I was desperate for a comfort break, as it's politely called. and we drove into the Macadamia Nut Castle. Oh, I know that. That place is cool. It's got superchargers. They've got superchargers there. Oh, my God. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, they've got six or eight superchargers. So we drive in in a Model X. It was the first one or first or second one in Australia. That's in the middle of nowhere as well. That is like. It's in the middle of nowhere and it was quite busy. It was probably school holidays or whatever. And we reversed in and then I was just so desperate.

43:37and I jumped out of the car and I said to Judy, can you plug it in? And then she opened the back door to get a bag or whatever. And of course, everyone then just went, oh my God, look at those doors. And then they both, the doors went up. And I'm standing there with my legs crossed going, there's people going, what is it? I've never seen one before. And you kind of want to be polite and tell them about it. Yes, you don't want to be rude, but that's the curse. So yeah, that experience. That was an extreme example of that. but that yeah yeah but then i don't i mean uh yes i wonder how i'm fascinated by that sort of the initial depreciation and it is that thing i think with it is the battery fear is that i mean i'm sure you've experienced this oh if i buy a secondhand i've had so many people say that i'd love to buy a secondhand electric car but i'd have to immediately buy a new battery yeah because it will be more than three years old and you have to buy a new one i go wait how did that piece of information just become common parlance i mean it's yeah yeah i mean the average and that was sorry you finish you well only very briefly one of the things that catl showed us was what they call the 90 year battery oh wow so it has enough it has enough charge cycles effectively to last 90 years before it has a noticeable drop in capacity well that's ridiculous And the guy, he's very funny, he said, yeah, in the future you won't worry about buying a new battery for your car, you'll be worrying about buying a new car for your battery.

45:10That's exactly the other way around. That doesn't surprise me. I could believe that. And, yeah, I mean, the average battery warranty for an EV in Australia, even for a PHEV, I think it's about eight years, and some of them do more. About eight years. um and i mean i was looking at before pre-covid i was looking at a secondhand nissan leaf you know just for a family runabout because they were really cheap and they were still doing about i mean the range had obviously dropped you do lose and that that is think about that that's earlier tech that's like 10 15 years ago um but you know they were still getting 100ks or something to it And then for whatever reason, COVID comes along and used car prices went through the roof.

46:00So even crappy little Nissan Leafs almost doubled in price. Wow. And so, yeah, so that was unfortunately off the menu. But yeah, that idea that you have to replace the battery. I mean, batteries are often repurposed. you know, especially... Yes, yes. You don't throw them away if whatever happens. No, they're still going to work. I mean, there'll be, I'm sure there'll be cases where, yes, the battery packs it in and has a catastrophic, not a catastrophic failure, that would be the... Drops in. That would be the battery fire, yeah. But yeah, yeah. Ceases to work. A failure. It's going to happen.

46:44Well, it's like you can get a brand new Mercedes and the engine blows up. You know, it's not like, you know, things go wrong with complicated technologies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that was interesting. I've just driven the new Leaf, the Gen 3 Leaf. What's the word? And it is that weird thing because I still have the 2011 built in Japan, very first generation Nissan Leaf, which we still have. Oh, why? And the range on that was a realistic 65 miles. You wouldn't worry about it at all. Up to 65 miles, over 65 miles, you're really anxious, particularly back then when there was no chargers anyway but the new one i think they claim 385 miles so i don't know what so and i don't think you'd be close to 600k that'd be yes nearly 600k and then but realistically uh three 350 realistic you know without we're in the rain with a hill with wind you know with weather lights easily yes exactly exactly it was extraordinary change and And it's also the battery's heated and cooled.

47:52It's all the things that the original Leaf didn't have. That technology's moved on. Yeah, yeah. It's a really nice car. I was really impressed with it. I was anxious that I wouldn't like it because of the kind of connection with what the Leaf represented. Yeah. But I think they've made a real jump. I mean, I don't know whether – I'm not sure when or if it's going to be in Australia. I don't know if it's – do you know if it's coming? Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure it's coming. You'll be getting it. I would imagine so. I'd have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure they're pushing on with it. I mean, it's one of the most recognizable nameplates out there.

48:24Yeah. I do feel like Nissan, again, a little bit like Toyota, probably missed opportunity there because at one point in time, the Leaf was the world's top-selling EV bar none. Yes. You know, they had so much, like, brand equity or what have you. And, yeah, that sort of – I'm not sure exactly what happened there, but I guess the competition got better. I guess it was just a case of, you know. Yeah. There were similar size cars that went much further that were a few thousand dollars cheaper, basically. That's when they emerged. I mean, I think they've caught up with this leaf. I just hope the company survives long enough to make that work because it's definitely on a par with any other, particularly Chinese brands I've driven recently.

49:18it's you know it's good if not in some ways better you know that that range is really because it is hard to tell when you only you know i drove it for five hours so you can't you're not you know and i didn't recharge but just judging on how far i drove and what was remaining in the battery i went that is like well over 300 and 320 330 yeah that's a real world figure it's not that he's tested in the lab on a dyno like you know yeah yeah all that sort of stuff it's often a little bit um uh they're a little bit optimistic at times yeah yeah yeah yeah but then um so yeah because that's i think it's worth mentioning about i mean we'll round up in a minute but the the thing that i've forgotten i actually looked it up this morning i made a note in a diary that i keep about all the you know to try and remember all the different cars and the brands and the changes because it's such a lot but one of the things i wrote was about i was in brisbane on a living in a house on a hill quite a steep hill of which there's many in brisbane and every now then it'd be quiet and i'd hear birds and i'd hear a cockatoo going and then i'd hear the most deafening exhaust from either a motorbike or a or a low slung ute and actually i now know i've checked here that would be literally illegal you'd literally have the car impounded or the yes yes no that i mean it's so loud i mean it really hurt and we were in a house behind a garden and it was like ow this damn rattling the windows rattling the windows as it roared up the hill you know oh dear so that there is a big uh well-established sort of really passionate petrol head noisy big v8s i mean that's much way more than we have in the uk or in europe but i mean it's similar to America.

51:10It is. Even in America, in California, you'd still be arrested riding that motorbike that makes children deaf. Forget the fumes. Bleeding and head drums. It's just literally, it's like going to, sitting in the front row at a Black Sabbath concert. Yeah, yeah. I think the acoustic and noise regulations in Europe are getting quite, they're getting more strict, aren't they? They're definitely. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I remember there was something, I can't remember, Audi RS3 or something, and it was, they had to... Noisy. Yeah, they had to dial it down. Interesting. Which I don't think... Yeah, because it was also, very quickly, I mean, it's related to that, the actual tailpipe emissions, you know, I remember reading this story in many places, so I'm assuming it's really accurate.

51:59The two countries that had zero tailpipe emission standards were Russia and Australia. Yes. But that's changed, hasn't it? that's changed recently it's just we yeah we've got this thing called nves which is yeah but before that there was basically we were probably a generation or two behind um you know so if it was eu4 we were probably on eu2 you know what i mean yes like the emissions regulations were yeah we're not great and yeah there's an argument to say that we'd almost become a dumping ground for dirty engines. Yeah, yeah. But at the – oh, that was what I was going to say. You mentioned V8s.

52:38Yeah. GWM developing a brand-new V8, which is almost unheard of when you've got all these other car brands that are dialing it back, like some of the German brands and even American brands. They go, no, we're going to build this 4-litre twin-turbo V8, but it's going to be super efficient because we're going to hybridize it. and I'm interested to see what happens because I'm not sure it's going to be that efficient, but we'll see, we'll see. But I think what that shows, though, I think it shows, in a sense, the Australian market is more extreme, as in there is that fascination and passion, and, I mean, there's a lot of V8, there's a lot of vehicles with throaty V8s in them in Australia, but the fact that electric car adoption has got the, you know, has made the impact, it has now, I think is really interesting.

53:31So that shows that there are, there is an alternative. It's not, because you could easily do the stand-up comic generalization. Everybody in Australia loves a V8, you know. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, you could do that, but actually they go, actually, I don't know that they all do. Yeah, look, there's... And it's a big, you know, the jump from having a V8 ute with an exhaust pipe the size of a dustbin at the back to an Xpeng P7 or whatever it is. It's a big jump. That's a big change. Yeah, yeah. On that point, though, I will say, yes, the enthusiast market for high-performance loud cars in Australia is very strong and it's big.

54:14I think there was something like your BMW M cars, your Mercedes AMG cars, those top-spec high-performance ones. Yeah. We would be in like the top three globally sales-wise despite the tiny population because we love these performance cars. Yeah. But I think we're going to see some, and we're already seeing some of that innovation in EVs, the Hyundai Ioniq 5N. I don't know if you've driven this. Just driven it. This thing is off the scale. Like it is just savage. Like I remember getting in it for the first time and it, you know, I might've put it in the hardcore mode, but it just kicked sideways.

54:56And it was brutal. It was, it was brutal. But it, it made me realize, okay, the, the, the enthusiast market can still, um, you know, have its cake and eat it in a lot of ways because there's going to be the cars like this. and I suppose to a lesser extent like the Porsche Taycans and things like that. Yeah. There are options there. I mean, yes, they're not going to make the wub, wub, wub, you know, V8 sound, but they're going to give you – I think they'll get smarter and they'll get more engaging and, yeah, I think it's going to be exciting. That was like – I mean, that car, the car that I've driven that it reminded me of, the 5N.

55:43was like a Subaru rally car. Yes. It had a roll cage and all that stuff. It made similar. The sound was similar. But the thing is, the sound, I just thought it just really intrigued me. I couldn't stop laughing the first time I drove it with the sound on. Yeah. Just the motion. And the gears, the gear shift is just, it's so simple. Because you get that little jolt of changing gears. It's extraordinary. The software in that car is mind-boggling, isn't it? It really is. It's all done with code. It's extraordinary. It's all software. But what I thought was that, you know, I'd have a go with it on a country lane around where I live.

56:19I was going, oh, my God. Then I'd turn it off and just drive to the shop like a normal human being in a really quiet car. Then you're going up ahead and go, oh, it would sound good here. But the great thing is no one else can hear it. It's not our side. But I think that's going to be a really, I think for the EV brands that really want to get, you know, you'll have your mainstream buyers that are just looking for like your Toyota, your white goods, something that goes from A to B, it's affordable, it's reliable, whatever. But then there will be that other market that, you know, if you can have that super sexy high-performance EV in the front of the showroom or what have you, I think that's going to be really useful.

57:04And I reckon we're going to start seeing that from some of the Chinese brands soon too. So I think it won't be too long. But also, I think critically for Australia, I mean, it's the same everywhere, the same here, but really importantly there, you have enormous capacity to generate all the fuel for all your ground transport in Australia. Yeah. Whereas at present you are, because I always think, oh, Australia must have oil because it's so big. But you don't really. I mean, you're importing all your fossil fuels. We have gas. We have natural gas. But then I think we explored most of that. Yeah, you do.

57:41It's the same for us. People go, we must drill more in the North Sea. What? So we can sell more to other countries because we don't have it. We don't benefit from it here. We're not like Norway, which is really annoying. But that, I mean, I don't know. Do you, I don't hear that argument here very much. I'm always using it. I'm always using it as a reason. But is that something that ever comes up in Australia? You know, I've got an electric car because I can charge it off my roof. or I use electricity we generate here, which employs people in Australia and it's not going overseas to pay for oil.

58:12I mean, I don't know. Is that a common? I don't think so. No. I mean, like I'm only really saying anecdotally and from all the feedback we get on our various verticals and channels, but not to say it doesn't happen, but yeah, I think maybe a little bit. But I think that there's probably the more common one is very much I've got solar, I've got an EV I'll probably get a battery soon as well which is often a little bit more expensive and so I can be self-sufficient in a lot of ways so I've got solar at my house but I don't have a battery yet there was really good rebates on the solar stuff so but that is certainly something that I'd like to get next well I mean the other one which I understand you would be able to do that but in your particular circumstance, but the thing that's just bubbling up and the Nissan Leaf already completely kitted out for that is vehicle, not just vehicle to house, but vehicle to grid.

59:14Yes, P2G. There's a new Nissan wall box that will come with that car that is bidirectional by default. And then it's then to do with, it's all to do with legislation, but they're trying that here first, which is unusual for us. We usually get stuff last, but they're doing a vehicle to grid test with the new Nissan Leafs. And this is a seven kilowatt cable. It's not. Oh, wow. They have done it before, but that was CHAdeMO, which is very restricting. Yeah. Enough to run your house, basically. Yeah, yeah. Not enough to run your street. That's impressive. That would make a huge difference in Australia if that was the case, that you could power your house from your car, which, you know, you can sort of now, but it's much harder.

59:54Well, let's use my example as a case there. Let's say I get this Nissan Leaf. I can have it plugged in during the day. I don't have a battery at home. So I plug it in during the day. It's coming off the solar panels, charging it for free. And then at night, I can switch the direction and I can charge my house from the car and use it like a battery that I have to pay, what, $10 ,000 or$5 ,000 for. Yes, exactly. The idea is really, really fascinating. And I think if it's made easy like that, you can go into a dealership and just they supply it for you? Because I think we're just starting to get V2G inverters or whatever they are, the various wall boxes.

1:00:36They're starting to come online here, but I think they're very expensive. Yes, they have been horrifyingly expensive. So it's got to be one of those technologies that becomes a little bit more normal and cheaper. And also there's got to be deals where, you know, you don't have to pay up front for it. In a sense, like the battery scheme or all the different, there's different ways of doing that there's a lot of discussion which we don't have time to go into now but you know around how how the grid it's not the technology and it's not the wires it's the legislation how the the legal aspects of the grid which will be different in australia to here but yeah that's what's holding things up here it's nothing it's nothing to do with a grid or wires or anything like it's to do with what what the legislation allows you to do you know so the The hardware can handle it.

1:01:25The hardware can do it, yeah. Which is often, interestingly, the argument we've had for years, and I'm sure this applies in Australia, is people would say, oh, if we all have electric cars, we'll melt the grid. There won't be enough electricity. Yes. Which we knew wasn't the case. But then suddenly that is the case with data farms. Yeah. That is like half of Sydney on 24 hours a day all the time. it never stops yeah oh my god and so there is we do have a challenge with our generating capacity but it's nothing to do with cars no no it is it is fascinating um yeah what's the i'm intrigued what's the the wildest craziest weirdest electric vehicle you've ever have you have you oh god i mean the thing is i've driven got had the chance to drive quite a few prototypes that never made it off the you know you know some i mean like there was a perjot single seater perjot city car huge sports car thing just oh wow and i drove that around the middle of london with them following me with cameras and everything i mean it was such a strange vehicle to be in it was huge but it only had one seat it was like a le mans racer from the 1950s it had that but it was a one-off they just i don't quite know why they did it got a lot of press attention at the time but um i mean i've got to say the Hyundai 5N just blew me away because it was I hadn't driven it we've got a review of it that Jack did but I'd never driven oh it's phenomenal like it really is it did yeah it's expensive but for the money you kind of go well this this has the performance of a supercar you know like yeah absolutely I mean which is actually not that because I when I was last in Australia I had the MG4 the performance yes yes because I drive an MG4 here or the time and it's fine and i just use it don't think about it and then there i got in that one and it was if you had it on eco it's exactly the same car there's nothing different but then you turn out to sport a terrifying thing it's quick yeah yeah what do we do we did a comparison i think we did that versus a golf gti or something and uh yeah yeah it's it's it is it is pretty uh pretty interesting how it's evolving um yeah i mean that's i think that's the thing for me is that one that you know i'm waiting for when we call them cars rather than electric cars and then i want it to be this is a car oh over there there's a petrol car and that one's a diesel car and that one's a hybrid car this one's just a car right i don't think i'm going to win it's going to take a long time but but i mean there's that side of it and then it is the kind of the choice you know in the experience i've had from this is the the range of cars as you were saying the amount cars that were on show in in sydney and will be and will be in melbourne melbourne show is crazy yeah i mean that's that's a massive explosion and i think what's exciting is it's a new technology that has kind of liberated car designers car makers they're kind of thinking about those shapes in different ways yeah definitely you know how you can how you can build a car we just had a a review of the Kia PV5.

1:04:39Oh, is that a delivery van? No, it can be like a minivan. So it can be a delivery van, a minicamper, or probably a seven or eight seater little van. And Jack just, he can't stop talking about it. Because normally he likes to talk about performance cars like the 5N. Oh my God, it's amazing. That, he just went on and on. The PV5, that's it. And it's anything but a performance vehicle. But it's just a different approach because the technology allows it. You know, the technology allows you to shove the wheels right into the corners and have a big open flat space in the back. Yeah, yeah. No, like we said before, I think the Koreans are going to give the Chinese the biggest run for their money when it comes to tech, design, everything, value for money.

1:05:26So, yeah, that'll be fascinating.

1:05:31I got the chance to ride an electric skateboard for the first time. Oh, right. recently which was uh it was cool it was cool and i didn't crash so uh right i'm impressed but yeah no i've been i've been told skateboards are my son is a big skateboarder uh or was he does it less now but he's like held me as i'm standing on a skateboard so he's holding me up i still fell over didn't move at all it just went it just i am so not the person to go Oh, look, they're pretty diabolical. They are. They are. Yeah. That was, so I was, last month I was in the US just on a family holiday. Right. And we did, we did RVs all around, you know, the Grand Canyon and all that sort of stuff.

1:06:18And we were staying in an RV park and there was a New Zealander there who was pretty keen to talk to some Aussies. And he had this electric skateboard and I was like, okay, that's pretty cool. and yeah, it's amazing how many electric devices there are nowadays. You can get these electric surfboards and foil boards and all sorts of recreational, you know. Yeah. I think even... Well, it's often, yeah, it's the shipping stuff. So last year, early this year, we went to see the big electric ferry that's been built in Tasmania. It's actually for use in South America. But I mean, we're talking a ship.

1:06:57that is 100 % electric. It's a battery electric ship. It's not a boat. Yeah. I think it can do 900 cars and 2 ,500 passengers. So, I mean, it's a big... Brokey, that's massive. And we saw it being built. It's now actually having sea trials. So I'm hoping I can go and see it again. But when you see that scale of development, and the people who make that ship, they've been making ships for years. They said even three years ago, it wouldn't have been economically viable. The batteries would be too expensive. but the battery costs have come down now. They actually, it's on the cusp of being cheaper than fitting diesel, marine diesel engines.

1:07:34Wow, okay. So that is, you know, in certain technologies, in certain areas, it's much cheaper to have a battery, like earth-moving equipment. Now that's becoming, if you want the cheap digger, you get the electric one. Yeah, okay. That is interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I'm also fascinated by, they're not really flying cars, but they're giant drones that you can drive. These things are going to be super interesting. There's obviously a lot. It's a bit like you were saying about the grid. It's all about the legislation and the legal framework. I really want you to test flying one of those first before I do.

1:08:15No, no, you go, you go, mate. I'll be right. I want to watch. I want to see, double check the safety systems first. the redundancies I want to see a lot of other people going on first but I mean I'm sure they've got more safety in a way than a single engine Piper you know engines go wrong and you really don't want an engine going but those have got 10 motors or whatever you know it's a different beast there was an X-Ping one and it shoots out parachutes when the eight rotors start failing but oh god but yeah the idea is interesting but yeah yeah We could go on for hours. We could. We could. Should we?

1:08:58Probably not. No, we shouldn't. No, it's been really good to talk to you. Thank you so much. Likewise. I mean, really interesting insight into the Australian market. And I'm looking forward to being there again and being with a load of Aussies. You know, I feel very at home in Australia, even though I'm not the least bit Australian. But having Australian kids and Australian wife, it's sort of part of my world. and so it's a real privilege to be there. And it's just really, you know, I think I get an extra buzz when I'm driving along a country road outside Albury, Wodonga. Yeah. And there's a kind of road stop and there's 15 chargers there.

1:09:36I go, oh, my God, and a big solar farm. You know, I see that. It kind of goes, wow, that's fantastic. Yeah. It's starting to happen. It is, definitely, definitely. It's going to be really interesting to see, you know, the next 5, 10, 15 years. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's big changes. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. No, no trouble. Really hope you enjoyed that. It was great fun talking to him. Please do the normal things. Have a little look at our Patreon. We'll put a Patreon link in the show notes. Have a look at our Patreon page because that is kind of getting interesting.

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