EVs AT RISK? The trick EV industry misses to make sales surge! + FREE ticket hint.

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1:35Hello. Hello, Imogen. How are you? Very well, thank you. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. I've got that back-to-school feeling. I mean, I've been working very hard this summer. I know you have as well, but it feels like there's a lot of work ahead in the next few months. This weekend we have done a profound amount of life admin, house admin, and it has had that sense of the summer's been wonderful, it's obviously been very hot, which has felt a bit like, oh, should we be enjoying this heat when we know what's caused it? But it has had that sense of, OK, all guns blazing, let's look to the term ahead.

2:09Our three free YouTube channels on EVs and cleantech are funded by our fun-packed, test-drivetastic events in Farnborough, London, the South West, the North, Melbourne and Sydney. And next up, we're in Canada for Everything Electric Vancouver. And new for UK viewers, you can now buy a battery EV and much more at everythingelectric.store. So with that in mind, maybe we should start with a little bit of context because many people will be familiar with you in the context of CEO of Fully Charged Show. other people will be familiar with you in the context of CEO of EVUK. So I wonder if you could just give us a sense of, you know, what do you do?

2:50What's your dinner party response, I suppose? And what pulls all of those threads together? Well, I've been doing those two roles for best part of a year. I joined Fully Charged Show for best part of 10 years ago. And the last year, I decided that actually doing another role on top of that would be a good idea. So I've been stretched even thinner than ever over the last 12 months, but I'm not complaining. I'm rather grandly termed launch CEO of Electric Vehicles UK because I said right at the outset, I will do it for a year and I will set it up as an organisation. And then I will hand over the reins to someone else.

3:30But I guess whereas Fully Charged Show, Everything Electric is very obviously a YouTube channel. and events around the world, Electric Vehicles UK is probably more akin to a lobby group. But we're kind of keen to sort of avoid those terms. We've come up with a sort of slightly grandiose, but I think accurate terminology. They're actually an industry to consumer accelerator. And actually, our whole reason for being is to drive demand of EVs. I've been advocating for clean tech of some sort or another for two decades. And I guess what kind of unifies those two decades is communication, clear communication about technology and particularly how to tackle myths and how to actually develop a narrative.

4:19And all of those skills have sort of been brought to bear launching Electric Vehicles UK over the last year. And that's been an incredible experience. and we believe it has the most enormous potential. So we've got a few announcements to make shortly. Do you know that's so interesting, clear communication of technologies and the benefits of them. And I suppose the other thing is that you've chosen the vehicle, for want of a better word, of how to speak to the various different audiences, both from the YouTube channel, the live shows, and then of course EVUK perhaps speaking to a few more politicians.

4:55But I suppose the question I have for you is that, But, you know, there's lots of things that are brilliant about this. We know it all the time. We see it all the time. It's loads of things that give us cause for optimism. Lots of things that also make us a little bit depressed. So why? Why are you pouring so much effort into this? Why do you believe it's important? And why have you dedicated the best part of your career to drive forward some of this stuff? Honestly, I think we're at a point of some jeopardy for the transition to electric vehicles and clean energy too. fundamentally and I'm not concerned I think that the eventual destination is inevitable but the slower the journey goes the harder it will be and we need to keep up some pace and some momentum in terms of that job you know convincing people to switch over to a new technology is not straightforward it's often compared to made to seem analogous with the switch to smartphones for example, but obviously, you know, you change those of the contract very, very quickly.

5:58Whereas the car, it lives in your life for much longer, it's a much bigger purchase. And so the two things are very, very different. So actually the speed of change from ICE cars to EV has been pretty quick actually, and is picking up pace, but it still feels like it's something that's going to play out over 15 to 20 years rather than five. So that gives a very, very different flavour to debate. And actually, the reality is we've seen huge amounts of misinformation, particularly over the last three years. And I remain extremely optimistic. I was with you in Sydney earlier this year. We ran an Everything Electric show down there.

6:34You could see the crowds of consumers gather around all the different types of cars. I was in Oslo shortly after that. It's well known that Norway has kind of led the pack and is almost 100 % new car sales. are pure EV now. And Shanghai shortly after, where I saw the most incredible array of technologies, both from Chinese manufacturers, but also from legacy manufacturers, often in JVs with the Chinese. We can also see continuing sales growth in the UK. We don't get too close to each month's sales. We look at it over the long-term trend and more than one in five, close to one in four car sales now in the UK are pure electric.

7:13And we're only at the beginning really of the arrival of more affordable options. And that includes used cars as well. So new cars, battery EVs, actually the growth powertrain. And then in the used sector, EVs are absolutely flying off the forecourts. They're the quickest to move object. And above all else, and I think this is where we probably are very, very fortunate in the job we do, working on everything electric, we are right in the thick of all the developments. You know, we are talking to car companies, battery companies, talking to the whole industry all the time. And I think if you talk to the average person on the street, they're normally surprised at the developments that have taken place with batteries, with electric vehicles, because they're not up to date.

7:58How could you keep up to date? Every single day we receive story after story of some sort of development, some sort of new car, etc. It's impossible to keep up to date. And the trouble is, I think the industry itself is struggling to keep up to date. politicians are struggling to keep up to date press is struggling to keep up to date people who are maybe looking at evs are struggling to keep up to date and that's why we are very very optimistic because we see that actually most people's knowledge is normally if not a few months out of date in some instances several years out of date whereas what we can see is how good the cars are now how good the batteries are now and we can also see how good they're going to be in the future.

8:36The sheer economics of electric vehicles make them inevitable, we believe. And the reality is that most progressive manufacturers can now make battery EVs cheaper than they can make hybrids. So it might not even be consumer preference that drives this change. It might be manufacturer preference. I know we're in the middle of a pretty messy middle of a changeover, and some manufacturers are moving faster than others. But actually, the economics will, like gravity ultimately lead us to one conclusion. There was a great story just last week that CATL, the large Chinese battery manufacturer, I think they're responsible for just under 40 % of batteries for electric vehicles made in the world, are on the cusp of a sodium-ion battery for$10 per kilowatt hour.

9:23Now, back in 2009, for a battery, it was something like$1 ,400 dollars per kilowatt hour. Now for lithium, we've broken through the$100 mark. Actually, for some lithium iron phosphate batteries are close to six tenths of that. To go down to$10 per kilowatt hour would be an absolute paradigm shift. And that's why EVs and the case for them is getting stronger and stronger, as well as faster charging times, longer ranges, the cars themselves are getting better and better. So ultimately, we can see that coming. And from our perspective, with Electric Vehicles UK, it's really trying to use that knowledge and try and make it clear that actually, this isn't just a fad.

10:06This is much more than that. This is a mega trend. And actually, it's better to not put your head in the sand, but actually adapt to that and work with that than deny it's happening. And you know, I know that we've spoken about this before, but one of the total privileges of being part of Fully Charged Show is that we get to witness these things firsthand, exactly as you described. And last week I went to Candela. We were previously there three years ago when we saw the C8, this incredible leisure boat that's an electric hydrofoiling boat. And they showed us a rendered image of a P12, which is a 30 passenger, you know, hydrofoiling electric boat that can be used as part of a public transport network.

10:46I kind of didn't believe that it would happen. I was like, oh yeah, another rendered image. Good, you know, great. And three years on, it's there. And it's there because all of these technological developments are happening at the same time. The environment is so ripe for this progress, but we're so close to it and we see all these things happening. And yes, it's difficult to keep up, but we do see it and we can be assured by it. And yet here in the UK, there are still huge pockets of anxiety. And I wonder what you think those are the sources of those anxieties when it comes to adopting electric vehicles and what EVUK is doing to tackle them?

11:22Well, I think the tech is winning. So the cars themselves have alluded to, the batteries are getting better and better, they're getting cheaper and cheaper. But where we're not winning is the battle of ideas, the battle for hearts and minds. And that comes down to the fact that there is something of an information war going on. And EVs are losing that battle at the moment. We've just seen and shared some news that actually the Times, for example, is very regularly reporting negatively on electric vehicles. And we've dug into why that is. And they're not the only media house that's doing that. there just seems to be a torrent of negative stories coming out about EVs with really trying to sort of stymie or slow down the progress of EVs.

12:16Equally in the UK, for those listening outside of the UK, we currently have a system where we have a government in place, the Labour government. They were voted in the general election just over a year ago, and they are trying to fend off the threat of a new, more right-wing party called Reform. And I think they are triangulating a lot of their positions against what reform is saying. I think they seem to be a little bit concerned about what reform would say about any particular policies. And the reality is reform are really trying to rubbish EVs as part of the whole anti-net zero agenda. So we're seeing in the UK, and it is happening around the world, I don't have to mention any Trumps, for example, to say there are politicians that are very, very vehemently against these technologies.

13:02I wonder why. And the reality is that's the sort of thing that we are fighting at the moment. But if you can imagine you work within a carmaker or you are in government and you're not au fait with what's going on, you may well believe some of that misinformation that is out there. And in our experience, very few people, and this is not a criticism, it's the way it goes, but very, very few people that are making decisions, policymakers, auto executives, press, etc., actually drive EVs or drive them habitually. And we would argue that is a fatal Achilles heel when it comes to them actually trying to legislate for these cars or trying to promote these cars.

13:48If you don't really understand how good the tech is, if you don't really understand that actually it is superior to what's come before, then it's very, very hard to go out and promote that. So we think that is a real, real issue and something that Electric Vehicles UK is trying to tackle. So from our perspective, what we're trying to do is actually really bring the whole EV industry together to agree on our objectives and above all, agree on a message and a campaign You know, from our perspective, what we found is that if you're a car company, you don't want to necessarily sell the whole premise of electric vehicles.

14:33You want to be able to sell your particular product and its unique selling points. So we believe firmly that actually there needs to be an overarching campaign that really kind of creates a message that we all stand behind and embeds that message into the minds of the press, policymakers and potential purchasers alike. so you might not be able to see my t-shirt you certainly can't if you're listening to this podcast but it says cheaper better battery electric and that is our kind of message that's our mantra that we want to put in the minds of the general public but also anyone in the industry give people confidence in making those decisions and we have done a lot of work to make sure that we can evidence those claims as well so almost everyone knows that evs are cheaper from a running cost perspective.

15:21In fact, if you've got a driveway and you change over car, not getting an EV is shooting yourself in the foot, we would argue. And ultimately, everyone will be able to go electric over time. But those running costs are very cheap compared to going to the petrol station and fueling up on a regular basis. What most people don't realise actually is actually that the cost of the cars themselves now is very competitive. We've just got a new electric car grant in the UK as well, and especially in the used market, where actually on average, our cost of driving electric report, the EV UK commissioned earlier this year, shows that on average, an used EV is£2 ,781 cheaper than a used ICE car.

16:01So the reality is that demonstrating it's cheaper and demonstrating the technology is better. I actually think that there will be some talk, there will be a lot of talk about residuals in the EV market. And I think actually that comes down to the fact that we haven't sufficiently explained as an industry the value of these vehicles. These vehicles are, for a whole range of reasons, if you're an EV driver, listen to me, you might be shouting one of many reasons, are better than what's come before. And we're not adequately communicating that. There's plenty of evidence to that effect. Just one little nugget is that multiple surveys show that more than nine out of 10 EV drivers will never go back to combustion engine vehicles, for example.

16:40There's a reason for that. So the whole idea behind our slogan, cheaper, better, battery electric, is the joining of the two. Cheaper doesn't necessarily mean inferior. Better doesn't mean it's more expensive. It's a portmanteau of the two things, and battery electric as well, because there's lots of confusion out there, I'm sure, Imogen, you'll agree about what constitutes an electric vehicle. There's some pretty muddy waters on that point of view. And actually, we see plug-in hybrids as a useful stepping stone. But there's almost no use case now, almost no scenario in which battery EV wouldn't actually be better for the person who's looking to buy it.

17:13I always think that plug-in hybrids, of course, there are some use cases for which they absolutely do make sense. And there are some outlier of use cases that quite simply a battery electric vehicle might not work. But I can't help but feel for most scenarios, 99 % of scenarios, getting a hybrid is just like not fully committing. It's like, you know, instead of jumping into the pool, you've just sort of dipped a toe, which is just, you know, a less than good experience, I would say. And, you know, I talked to my dad because he is such a staunch sort of environmentally focused person, but he's been quite reticent to switch to an electric vehicle.

17:52I think partly due to his age, there's sort of uncertainty about switching to a new technology. And he test drove a Volvo EX30 the other day, which he then went on to order. And he was like, this is amazing. He was like, I'm old and I'm suddenly, the lack of noise, I'm not sort of so cognitively overloaded. He was like, I am a safer, better driver. And of course, it's got solar panels. So he's like, yeah, I can drive for free. And I was like, yes, we've got him. We finally got him, which is good. I think that's a good point because when you talk to EV drivers, they'll all list something that they like.

18:25And so the lack of noise is something that he likes. But people will list different things. like maybe they'll list the fact that you can, you know, heat the car up on a cold morning from the comfort of your bed. Perhaps they'll, you know, talk about the acceleration. You know, there's dozens of reasons why, you know, this technology is seen to be and is superior. But what we feel that's kind of missing the point, the industry kind of needs to come up with what's really going to win hearts and minds. And it is the pocketbook, it's the wallet, right? It's the economic situation, if people genuinely believe that it's cheaper.

19:02I meet people all the time who know what I do for a living and they apologise to me and say, definitely going to get an EV next time, but they are quite expensive. And I actually then, depending on the mood I'm in, will say to them, you know, actually, let me talk you through that because that is actually a misperception. And equally, cheaper, better, it's a much, much quicker way of saying it because unfortunately, unless we frame the narrative, someone else will frame it for us. And so it's really, really important that we start to get this mantra out there, cheaper, better battery electric, and we evidence it, and we get the whole industry to start to echo that.

19:37And we should definitely link to the cost of driving electric report because it's so useful to be armed with that nugget of fact saying, well, actually, let me just pass this fact in front of you and you will see that they are not more expensive. Now, obviously, there's a huge ambition when it comes to EVUK. But all of these things cost a little bit of money and presumably require more than just Dan Caesar to spearhead. So, what are your thoughts with regard to that funding and to growing as well? Well, for those that don't know, we launched last year and actually the Fully Charged show, we put in a fair amount of investment to get Electric Vehicles UK underway.

20:17getting things moving from a standing start is no simple feat. So we've done that to get it started as our kind of gift to industry. But I'd be remiss if I didn't name check Greg Jackson at Octopus for also putting in some seed funding to get this going as well. We call the year that we've just gone through sort of year zero as we've built our plans. We've consulted with about 200 different companies and what the market wants, what the industry wants from Electric Vehicles UK. And we're very, very clear on that now. But it will be a membership organisation, if you like. So we're calling it an industry to consumer accelerator.

20:57It will rely on companies joining us as partners, partners in this message, partners in our campaign, if you like. So it's to be funded by industry. That includes many different arm makers. But everyone across the whole EV industry supply chain. And what we're working to do is actually fund a coherent campaign, a program of activities under the cheaper, better battery electric strategy throughout the course of the next 12 months. We've built up and brought together a first class team. So we've got people who've come from industry, people who all drive EVs within the team. And most notably, we've just agreed and we're just about to announce today who our CEO is going to be and also who our chairman is going to be.

21:50And I'm delighted to say that our chairman is going to be Dr. Andy Palmer, who you know very well. Some people know him as the godfather of EV. He was obviously instrumental in the launch of the Nissan Leaf. and as CEO we're bringing in Tanya Sinclair. Tanya has got a really interesting background in her own right. She's ex-Nissan so she's worked for a British-based carmaker. She's ex-Tesla so she's worked for the market leader in the space. She's ex-LEVC which is part of the Geely Group so she's also worked for a Chinese OEM as well. She's also worked for ChargePoint so she's very with the charging industry.

22:35So Tanya is coming to lead the organization effective immediate. I'm very proud of what we've achieved so far. There's a lot to do, and I am actually going to stay on in the capacity of founder and strategic lead. So I'll be working very, very closely with Andy and with Tanya to help Electric Vehicles UK sort of fulfil its potential over the coming months. We also have, we're creating a board. We're hoping to get a political figure onto that board as well to be part of that. But it'll be a board of nine with Andy, Tanya, myself, three non-OAM partners and three OAM partners. And the non-OAM partners are Octopus Energy, OVO.

23:23And Dan mentioned a third, even bigger and arguably even more influential company. but we will have to keep you in suspense a little longer before we announce who that is. Rest assured though, the three non-OEM partners have tens of millions of UK customers between them. So it's coming together really, really well on our first year proper, if you like, begins on October 1st. Everything we're doing at the moment is gearing up to that and you'll see more and more activity from us going forward. Goodness me, that is, you've been quite busy, i would say we have we've been you know operating uh slightly uh in the shadows just trying to really understand what the industry uh wants of us and you know from our perspective we're really trying to focus on three areas um it's really important to be efficient as a fan of battery evs as a fan of energy efficiency i think you know efficiency is is king and you know from our perspective, we will have a finite budget, a budget that would make some difference, but we'll have a finite budget.

24:28And the reality is we want to be super effective in all of our actions. So rather than targeting the whole world, we're really trying to target key policymakers. So to that end, we'll be at Labour Party conference shortly. We're really trying to target key members of the press. With respect to provincial newspapers, you know, it really is when it comes to misinformation and information. It really is the key broadcasters with Sky, BBC, GB News, whether it's the Daily Mail, it's the Times, the Express will be working and targeting all those titles as well. And equally, what we see is it's really important to not see the consumer or the car buyer as one big monolithic block.

25:16We've got to chip away at them. to the tune, I think it's about 1300 EVs a day at the moment. We've got to chip away at them, chip away at those that are, if not ready, are open-minded. Our view is that there are lots and lots and lots of people out there who are hesitant about EVs, not hostile. They just need a bit more information. Maybe they need one more question answered. Maybe they need two, maybe they need three or four, but ultimately we can move those prospective buyers forward. So it really is about potential purchasers who are probably within a year or two of buying EV, how can we get them across the threshold more quickly?

25:51And we think the cheaper, better mantra is going to be a real way to grab people's attention and get people to say, yeah, I think I will take a look at that. It was actually my first EV 10 years ago. I bought it off the back of a spreadsheet to show my wife that actually it was going to be really economic to run. It wasn't just a kind of virtues signaling middle class pursuit to buy this battery EV, but actually it was going to be cheap to run. And that's when we made the decision, ironically. And I'm not saying money is the sole driver, but for most people, it's probably the single biggest factor, hence us using the word cheaper, using the word better on repeat.

26:31And I mean, ultimately, it'd be brilliant if people didn't have to make decisions purely based on money or principally on money. But right now, in this particular economic climate, we kind of have to. And actually, if you can go where you need to go and not worry about the cost of doing that, that gives you a tremendous amount of freedom. And that is improving your life in other areas as well. So I think it's such a core component of this whole message that you will save money by driving electric. So you've mentioned a couple of the activities there. Are there any others that we should be looking out for?

27:06Well, certainly Labour Party conference is a big one. So that comes up at the end of the month. It takes on even greater significance, really, because EVs have been quite a political topic this year. We have had a zero emission vehicle consultation. We have also had an electric car grant announced. And there is a real sense in the EV industry that those two things could have deserved perhaps a little bit more input, let's say, from the EV industry itself. The reality is it's a very, very tough job running a consultation. It's extremely tough being a government and making some of these decisions.