Taking Australia's temperature? And can its '2nd city' overtake Sydney's EV uptake?

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1:09Hello and welcome to another episode of the Everything Electric podcast coming to you from the lucky country down under from Australia. And today I am joined by two really, really fascinating guests who know a thing or two about not only the global electric vehicles market, but also the specifically Australian electric vehicle market, which is a fascinating case study. So please welcome to the Everything Electric podcast Sarah Aubrey from Electrify This and Tom Gann from Ludicrous Feed. Our three free YouTube channels on EVs and clean tech are funded by our fun-packed, test-drivetastic events in Farnborough, London, the South West, the North, Melbourne and Sydney and next up, Everything Electric, Melbourne.

1:56and new for UK viewers. You can now buy a battery EV and much more at everythingelectric.store. Welcome, both of you. This is so good to have you online. And we were just saying before we started that we almost look semi-professional. We've all got proper microphones, proper cameras. I'm thrilled to bits. It's really good. Sarah, I'll start with you. I mean, And one, how are you? And two, how is Australia? Just in general. It's a rainy. Do you know what? We had a 38-degree day. Just to talk about the weather for a second, which everyone just, I mean, I was wildly disturbed that that happened in spring.

2:36And now it's like a cold winter day and it's raining. So it's a bit miserable in Sydney. But one's spirits are buoyed by being here today, Robert. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And what about, Tom, I'm not sure where you are. Whereabouts are you geographically? Yeah, I'm also in Sydney, like Sarah, just across the bridge, the bridge. And, yes, it's also raining on the north side as well. But as Sarah said, it was 30s a week ago and it's like teens now. So 20-degree drop, which is crazy. Absolutely crazy. And the other day we heard from people we know on the Gold Coast, it was over 40 degrees for one day.

3:11And then the next day it was raining and cold, which is – That's not my impression of Australian weather. That's a bit weird. Yeah. Anyway. What are we? Yes. That's it. Must be. I don't know why we're talking about the weather. That is wrong. That was my fault. I brought it up. I apologise in advance. No, no, it's fine. It's my fault. Can we just quickly do, the one I think that is interesting. So a lot of viewers will know, but I'm a sort of regular visitor to Australia. I'm married to an Australian. So I have a strong emotional connection with it. Not all positive. Being married to an Australian woman, it can be challenging.

3:46You get bagged regularly, do you? She's married to an old POM, and she knows that that is extremely challenging. But the one thing I've noticed, I had a long gap when I didn't come because of COVID and all those things and then other work-related stuff. So there was quite the longest gap I haven't been to Australia. And in that gap, the previous time we'd put pre-COVID, we'd been there, I noticed quite a few Teslas. There was a Tesla supercharging network. That was about it. I mean, there were one or two European-made electric cars, but it was really rare. It wasn't a big thing. And when I went back, I think in 2023, first time I'd been there for a long time, I was like going around, what happened?

4:24You know, it was a really noticeable shift. Loads more Teslas, but also loads of other cars. And that was when my sister-in-law, you know, I didn't even know. She had a BYD Atto 3. She was one of the first people to get one. My niece has got a BYD Dolphin. You know, so even in the family, it's a big extended lovely Catholic family from Queensland. You know, they had electric cars. I'm going, what's gone? What's happened to this country? It's gone upside down. It's gone upside down. It's mad. I reckon that jump from even 2023 to 2025 has been really massive, don't you reckon, Tom? Totally. It's funny, Robert brings up the BYD-R3.

5:01I reckon that car actually kicked things off. That was launched in August 2022. Because I just recently reviewed the Aria. And the Nissan general manager said in Australia that it wasn't launched three years ago in Australia because he didn't thought the market was ready at the time three years ago. And Sarah, you know, three years ago, it was a huge, it was a different market, different world in Australia, right? And looking back three years, yeah, it was only the Auto 3 Model Y, smattering of European EVs, a couple of Korean ones. But Robert, like now, everywhere you look, there's a different brand coming to Australia, you know, in droves, which is great, great for us.

5:34no it's incredible isn't it and also the the other thing i noticed because we drove long distances to see people was the the growth in charging you know the charging infrastructure and there was one charger that i went to that was just extraordinary and i don't know where it was i wish i could remember but it was somewhere between sydney and albury i think or or albury wodonga and melbourne it was somewhere it was at the back of a building where there was a you know a fuel station at the front building. And then around the back was the new chargers had been put in. And the one at the far end, I said, I've got to use this one.

6:09There was no one using them. And I reversed in and there were deep trenches in the concrete. So someone had used it when the concrete hadn't set. And they said, oh, yeah, we put up tape and everything. We'd only just laid the concrete, but someone wanted to charge. I really need to charge. Desperate. It's really easy to park in the right place because they've done it well. So you just fell into the trough and reversed. Just go into those lovely grooves. There you go. Yeah, and you're in the perfect place. But, I mean, that shows that there is demand for it. But that was the most amusing one. But, you know, there's far more of that than there was when I first – I drove a Tesla, you know, around Australia, I don't know when, 2018, 19.

6:50And there were Tesla Superchargers, but that was kind of it. And that's really changed as well. I mean, that does seem to have grown a lot. I still think the public, the general public who don't own EVs still think it's not there yet because we do hear it in the mainstream press a lot and it's just this constant rhetoric and it's like I don't think people who own EVs really complain about that. No, not, yeah. Sorry, you go, Tom. Oh, I was going to say, I think Tesla Supercharger Network is still the most prevalent network in Australia. It's still the most reliable, which is good. And the fact that they can now open it to all EVs, I think more than half the chargers now work for all EVs.

7:29That's made a huge difference if you don't drive a Tesla to be able to charge on those chargers. But I think other networks are also coming. Like today, I tried out a new 10-stall Amphol charger. I know it's Amphol. It's a fossil fuel company, but still 10 chargers on both sides of the motorway, four pull-through stalls, 400 kilowatts. Wow. So it's coming. I think it is coming. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I think you're right, Sarah. The exact same thing still happens here. and I wish I had the numbers in front of me, but it's like hundreds of thousands of chargers available. I mean, many hundreds of thousands in the UK.

8:01And I had a comment the other day, I'd love an EV, but the technology just isn't mature enough yet. There aren't enough chargers for ordinary hardworking families. It's all the cliches. Just for cities. I'm like, oh, okay. Just for cities. Actually, that one is, I think, the most amusing myth. It's so much easier having an electric car out of a city. Yeah, because they've really thought about the infrastructure linking them. Yeah. Having a – you know, all the people who work on everything electric who live in cities, it's much more of a hassle for them to charge a car. It's easy for me. I've got no problems.

8:35So all those things – anyway, we don't need to go on about that. If you've got a home charger, that's like the gold standard, right, in Australia. That's like perfect use case for an EV. And, Robert, I've done the road trip from London to Scotland in the UK last year. Yeah, and you've got chargers everywhere. I don't know why you guys are complaining about it. Every petrol stop, you've got banks of 10, 20 chargers. It's phenomenal. We now have a hub, which I went to recently. Thankfully, it was almost on my route, but I just wanted to go and see it, outside Winchester, which has 44 ultra-rapid chargers, including drive-through truck ones, so a truck can charge there.

9:11Or if you're towing a trailer or a caravan, you can charge it without unhitching. And it's got coffee shops. It's got really nice loo. See, you do those services so much better than us. We just fail so badly. It's like, and I feel like they're just crying out for that here. Yeah, I've been to some. There was a lovely services we stopped at, which we weren't charging, but there were chargers there, and it was all modern and very new. And then I came out of a different door than I went into, and I was carrying coffee. This is an old man fail. This has got nothing to do with electric cars. and I walked and I could see my wife in the distance.

9:48I was carrying coffee in a bun, whatever it was, and I didn't see the curb. There was a trip hazard. Bang, I went down. Coffee went everywhere. And lovely Australians helped me up. And that is so embarrassing when you get helped up. Someone help the man up, please. Help him up. We like to help. The old man's had a fall. Could you get him up? You don't trip over now. You have a fall. No, I was going to say, when is that point, Robert, that you have a fall versus a trip? I think for me it was about 35. Was it that day?

10:17It's a long time ago. An accident becomes a medical issue, right? Yes, you have a medical issue. Yes. Oh, God, it's not fun. But I've got some figures. Increased market share. EVs now account for 12.1 % of all new car sales. So that is EVs. That's not plug-in hybrids. That is EVs, which is much bigger. It was 9.6 last year. So it is still going up. But apparently there's been a bit of plateauing in the last few months. But that doesn't mean the sales have gone down. They just haven't gone up as much. I think we had a slow start to 2025. We were sitting around 5%, 6%. But I think over the last three or four months, we've seen definitely a big uptick.

10:58The last quarter. It's consistently over 10%. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, 10%, 11%. So I think it's looking very promising, definitely. And it's those new Model Ys coming in, really. They just seem to have bumped everything up. But also, we're seeing a share of other vehicles really filling that gap as well. BYD Sea Line 7, there's quite a few new ones. Yeah, it's good. And that was, I mean, I actually interviewed the man from BYD recently, and the amount of service centres and showrooms is just mind-boggling. I mean, I can't remember it, but it's a lot. I mean, I remember seeing a couple last time I was there, and I was going, oh, look, there's a BYD showroom.

11:32Why was I excited about that? I think they've done a phenomenal job. Their footprint is growing by the day. Yeah, there's service centres all over Australia. Yeah, exactly. There's no mean feat. They sponsor one of the NRL teams here in Australia. I think a sporting sponsorship is the key to brand recognition in this country, for sure. Right. Yes, that's true. And also, as we discussed briefly, Sarah, the BYD Shark, which I mean, so I've got a nephew-in-law in Australia who drives a ute, and he's sort of comically Ozaz, as my wife would call him. Oh, mate, he's Ozaz. He's lovely. He's a lovely, sweet, gentle lad, but he's a giant monster.

12:12He's big and loud and he's a builder and he's got a ute and he swears at his uncle. And he gave me a hug last time. Is he high a shark, do you think? Well, I think he might do. Yes, I'm going to tell him to. We'll see him at Christmas, I think. But when he gave me a hug the last time I saw him, I'm pretty sure he cracked a rib. Oh, I needed that back adjusted. Thank you so much. Yeah, well, it definitely cracked the back. It's so funny. But, I mean, that would be this sort of – I can see the argument with something like that. I know it's a big SUV, a big pickup truck. I mean, it is almost as high as my head.

12:49That one. The front is just huge. They're all so big. Yeah. I'm just not a fan of big vehicles. I mean, Sarah, you're part of Sydney. You wouldn't want a Ute too often, would you? There are a few of those sharks in my neighbourhood, and I'm like, really? These are roads designed before the car was even invented, and I'm like, that is bold. That is a bold choice right there, my friend. You're making a statement. And do you spend your entire life worrying where the hell you're going to park it? Because I would hate it, for sure. The weeks that I have like a large car like a ute or a van, I just stress because shopping centre car parks in Sydney just got that low clearance, tight spots.

13:23It's just a nightmare. I mean, it's slightly off topic, but it's something I really became aware of last time I was in Australia is exhaust noise legislation. and I just want to know if there is any in Australia. Oh, I don't think we have any. I don't think so. We lived on quite a steep hill in Brisbane. What do you mean? The louder the better. Yeah, the beat. It's annoying. Sometimes I'd be, well, it's like if I was recording podcasts in there and every now and then I would say, sorry, we've just got to stop for a minute. Went fast. I find it so obnoxious. And I was at the back of a house behind a garden in a house.

14:01I wasn't on the road. It was still death-mingly loud. I think for some people it's their God-given right to be able to produce that kind of noise and annoy everyone else. And we all have to listen to it. I think it's changed this year. I don't know if you know anything about it. There was legislation about emissions, but there is some emissions legislation in Australia. Because up until I think this year, there were two countries with zero tailpipe emission legislation, which was Russia, no surprise there, and Australia. Yeah. I mean, that was so true. And do you know what? People are still complaining about it.

14:34They still want it gone. It's restricting my freedom. That's right. A lot of pushback against it. And I don't even think it even covers certain very large vehicles. Have I got that wrong? No, probably not. Yeah. Yeah, I think some are exempt, Sarah. That's right. I think even the Utes, I think I have to check that up. But yeah. Those big, big Utes. It's weird, isn't it? Yeah. Actually, I found out the other day and I was so shocked by this. So ANCAP, which is our version of NCAP, the safety standard. Yeah. I didn't realize that it's not compulsory. I was like, what? So there's vehicles on our roads right now, I'm looking at you, Ram 1500 and Ford Raptor, that have no ANCAP rating.

15:11Wow. No ANCAP rating. And I'm like, is that because they just know they would fall? You know, if it is, the hood is as big as my head. Yeah. Maybe it's because it would fail so badly. Yeah. And even so, you see cult vehicles like, say, a Jimny, three-star ANCAP, people don't care. They just don't care. Right. But also we have the issue, and maybe you would agree with this, Robert, in terms of all the cars you review and you, Tom, are you tired of the bings and bongs? Oh, yeah. And that is the ANCAP thing, isn't it, about that it's just got to beep at you incessantly, incessantly. I am just… Yeah, it's a difficult one.

15:45I mean, I got criticized for a review I did the other day a few weeks ago where you can turn them off. But I hadn't turned them off because I needed to… It's when you've got a car for two hours. Yeah. I haven't got time to spend an hour turning off all the bings and bongs. So I was driving along going, this bloody thing's binging at me. But you should experience what the car is truly like. Yes, exactly. Turning it all off and going, that's fine. And there's some super subtle bings that I think are really – so there was one in – oh, no, I can't remember what it was. A car where when you went over – and I was driving in Spain, so I wasn't used to the speed limits.

16:24It was a little bit different. And it sort of went like that. and you go, oh, I've gone over the speed limit by one kilometre an hour. You know, it was like that. And I went, that's okay. That doesn't annoy me. It's supple. Then when the speed limit changed, so you were in a 40K and it went up to an 80K or whatever, something like that, and it would do a slightly different, but it was so supple. You can turn that off permanently because I'm driving the EV3 at the moment and I noticed that you can, the where the speed sign changes. But I just feel really stressed about it. I think it's a phase we're going through.

16:59The other one I've just heard, which is the Vauxhall Frontera, which is really an interesting car. So it is the electric version of the Vauxhall Frontera is cheaper than the hybrid petrol version. Wow. Bring that on. And they've done that across. So Stellantis, that's their ambition, is that all their electric cars will be the same as or cheaper than the petrol or petrol hybrid equivalent. I'm so here for that. But the other thing is they've done a, they call it a digital detox. So it's, you know, it's very standard looking. It's not an exciting car. It's not fast. It just gets you where you're going.

17:36And it's got the screen and it's got sat nav, but it's got really easy wireless Android Auto CarPlay. It just comes on. It's just so simple to use. There's one button that I'm glad they did show me because that would have taken me a long time. When you get in the car, you press one button, there's no beeps of any sort. There's lane keeping assistance. There's cruise control. All those things are fine. No, no, no. There's no beeping. I have no problem with if I'm about to be in an impending accident. Yes. I want my car to alert me. I don't want to be reprimanded for minor infringements in my car.

18:10Oh, you went 1K over the 50. Oh, 1K, 1K. No, no. I just don't. I don't want that. And some are quite harsh. Like some will really pull you away from the lane or you feel like someone's actually driving it for you. Like my wife calls it like as if there's like kind of romantic dramas where someone's coming behind you to mow the clay pot or something. But it's not romantic at all. Just a robot doing it. So, exactly. So, I don't mind if it's gentle, a bit of a nudge, that's fine. Gentle beat. But if it's really rough, I just want to turn it off. Definitely. But 1K over the speed limit is so dumb because if you're sitting, if the speed limit's 60, you're trying to keep the speed around, you know, 59.

18:4760, 61, you know, if it was 5Ks over, that would be more sensible. It might be that it does, I think, you know, it might be that if you're fanging it, as my wife would say, then it does bing. I don't know that it comes in at 61. No, it does. It might be 63. Some of them do, yeah. Yeah, 1K. 1K. Right. Anyway. It must be an NCAP requirement, right? I don't mind that. Yes. There must be a button you can just link to your profile where you can just, okay, Tom's here today. He doesn't want this and that. He wants the emergency staff. That's fine. I just don't understand. The thing is if you're buying the car, then you'd spend that – it's that difficulty when you're just driving it for an hour.

19:26Effectively, a test drive. See, what annoys me is you have to do it every single time. If I spend that much money on a car, I should have the right to turn it off completely. To turn it off, yeah. And do you know what? Pedestrian deaths in Australia are rising. Road deaths are rising. Our transport emissions are going up. Primarily, it's because our vehicles are getting bigger and bigger. and they're buying dirty vehicles. So all these things, plus you get reprimanded for looking away from the road at the screen where everything is in the screen. And I'm like, well, and then you have to dig into menus to turn things off or to do things that are essential.

20:00It's not actually making our roads safer. And Sarah, you make a good point because who's still ultimately responsible for an accident? You are. I am. Robert is, right? It's your car. You're driving it, not the company, not the manufacturers. So we should have the right to be able to fix or turn off whatever we want and let it stay off because we still take responsibility if something happens. Yes. No, I mean, that's, yeah. And that goes into the whole debate around autonomous vehicles, which I don't want to get into.

20:26But yes, I just want to quickly mention my beloved MG4, which I've had for a few years, which is everything about that car I really like. It's really comfortable. It's got amazing range. It's like unbelievably cheap in comparison with like the first generation of electric cars. You just couldn't imagine like in 2010, there'll never be anything like the MG4, but there is but the lane keeping assistant is suicidal it's just insane yes oh my god i've been very close to serious accidents with that thing and you and you have to turn it off every time you get in and it's about a three button down in the menu item and that is just once that's off i can love it again but when i get in that car if i forget to turn that wretched thing off it is really shocking apparently reversed and there was someone coming down the ride but i wasn't near it it slammed on the brakes.

21:15Yeah, on the brakes. Yeah. Like the MG4, was that? Yeah, it's very sensitive. But actually, I'll tell you one. We just bought the MGS5, so the MG4's newer brother. We just got the MGS5 as our second car. And you can now, with the MG software, flick down a shortcut and then just press MG Pilot. And you can actually select the ones you want, and it's a one or two button flick, and you're done. But then it doesn't come back on the next time. It doesn't come back for that drive, yeah. So it's a much better experience. so I'm sorry to say. The drive, but it is literally swipe down, boom. Swipe, push.

21:46So that's good. I don't mind that. No, I wouldn't mind that at all, no. And I think it's fantastic. I just love the car. You know, that's the thing. When I've done long drives in it and it's set, it's brilliant. Drives so well, that car. For the cost of it, I do take a cushion with me that I've stolen off the sofa because my leg, my left leg rests against the sort of centre console bit and it's like really sharp. It's hard plastic. Put a hard plastic. It's a very hard plastic thing in the way of an old man's knee. So I need a little bit of padding. You need a little bit of cushioning there. That's what you need.

22:21I need a little cushion. Did that cause the fall in the service station? No, that was in Australia, wasn't it? That's a different issue. Can't blame MG for that. Although we were given an MG for the really crazy fast one. That would be X Power. X Power. X Power. You just have to look at that thing in your spading. Yeah. Hunter Green. That was when we were in Albury and there were some friends of Judy's that had never been in an electric car before at all. Did you terrify them? Well, I just gave them a lift in it and they said, oh, does this go fast? We don't need to do it. It's fine. We're just going up the road.

22:56Oh, go on, go on, go on. They were sitting in the back. That scream could be heard in the other side of Wodonga. Was this before our lunch? Yeah, but they're still talking about it. Oh, my God, that car was crazy. That's a decent fang. Yeah. Yeah, that was, it was stupid. You totally fanged it. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. That was a proper fang. Yeah, I fanged it. Yeah. I had a thought before that, Daphnis. Oh, well, I mean, yeah, let's talk plug-in hybrids. No. Because. Yeah. Because I just. Yeah. But I mean, the thing is, whatever our opinions about it is, the two things that work. The one thing that works is the marketing.

23:37This is an electric car that you don't need to worry about ranging. They do like to put the electric EV all over them, don't they, to try and make them look like an electric car, which I personally do not. But, I mean, clearly the sales of those have been – oh, my God. The first six months of 2025, this is the figures from this report, it's seen more than a tripling. It's 218 % growth from the same period last year. So, clearly – Of hybrids. It's working. The marketing is working. Do you think all three of us were in China at the same time back in April? Are you frustrated, because I feel frustrated, that I have seen the future in China.