Hot Girls Have IBS: Hormones, Healing & The Nue Co. with Jules Miller

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0:26Jules Miller:Save big money at Menards. The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

0:44Okay, it's so nice meeting you in person. It's so nice to meet you. I feel like I've been DMing you for years. And I feel like I'm part of your family. I feel like I love Davide and your mom and your kids. and yeah you do what Davide does which is you like you don't have a personal Instagram account do you I have a personal Instagram but it's where I post like all my cringy stuff because we've only communicated through yeah like so Davide has like he's like I don't want a personal Instagram so he just has personal conversations through his business account yeah yeah I think maybe we're just like type b in that Latino way where I'll also use like our company account to like send my friends like memes and yeah of course you know like dm people like yeah that's just i always joke i'm like i always want to like screenshot the like memes i'm getting from the like very chic yeah it's like it's like whole algorithms like puppies yes oh my gosh yes don't look at the new co's algorithm like our explore page it's not okay no so you started the duco in 2017 yes right yes so you're approaching i mean close to 10 years no really what's so mental i was thinking about this the other day because I first started concepting Nuco when I was 23 and I'm 36 now and you know like everything that you go through as a woman in terms of your health and your experiences and your life in that time period.

2:04You should become like a mother twice over. Totally all of the things that we were just talking about just in terms of like I think Nuco in many respects has been like an exploration of my own health. You know I think that a lot of these wellness brands that are founded by women they usually land on like product ideas from you know, issues or concerns that they're having, their friends are having, and that, you know, they don't find solutions. And it's just been so interesting that I sort of started with gut health and IBS. And, you know, then it was like all of the other things that I've experienced.

2:35So things like losing my hair and like breakouts and then eventually like my hormonal health. And yeah, it's just been, it's been such an incredible and wild ride over the last couple of years. I always say that like it's like 90 % of hot girls have IBS. It's like a hot girl telling Bravo. Yeah well I actually like this is the stuff that now I like have you know explored with the experts I'm so privileged to work with. But I you know I like I said my founder story is that I had IBS for years and years and years. Essentially went to the doctor. I think they actually tried to give me like an antidepressant because they were like.

3:13There's nothing. a doctor is going to give you for IBS. There's nothing, right? And then that was what led me to then sort of confine my grandfather. My grandfather is a chemist, was a chemist. And that was what led me into like the idea of NUCO. But my first real health struggle actually started when I got my period when I was 11. I got mine when I was 10. I want to hear about what your period was like, because when I now tell people about it, they're like, that is crazy because I got put on birth control when I was like 12. They put me on it in eighth grade. So same thing. And now, you know, you say like, oh, well, like all girls have OBS.

3:50Now there's a really strong link between being put on birth control, being on it for years and years and years and how that then affects your hormonal health. And then that goes on to obviously affect your gut health. And then that goes on to affect absolutely everything in your body. So there's such a correlation between the two now. it's so sad because i i mean how many people do you know that just been on birth control for a long time and there absolutely is a correct use for it and thank god for it and all of that but nobody explains to you what the long-term repercussions are going to be from putting a pill in your body that like when you're 12 prevent yeah it's when you're 12 you know when you're 12, 13, 14.

4:36Why did they give it to you? Because your period was so heavy. So I, so yeah, I got my period when I was 11. I would faint at school. I would throw up like literally every single thing I would eat for the first three days of my cycle. No, I wouldn't be able to keep it down. So I was even like water. My periods were so painful, so heavy. I was out of school all the time. And it was just like, you know, it's funny with like hormonal health. And when you talk about it. It doesn't even sound as bad as when you really live through it. Like I remember I would always obviously be sent home and my mum would give me money for a taxi.

5:09So I just take myself home. And I remember being like, I can't get in a cab because I can't, I won't be able to. You were taking a cab at 12? Yeah, because my house was like a mile down the road and my mum was at work. And like I was getting sent home every three weeks. She was like, here's the money, get a black cab and head home. And yeah, I was maybe like 12, 13. And I just remember being like, I literally, I can't get in a taxi because I'm going to throw up the whole way. And I would just be walking home as a 12 year old throwing up in every corner, you know, and that was, that was my life.

5:42What was your doctor saying to you at this point? So my, like, you know, I remember my, my school teacher was like, you got to get it together because you're a woman. This is what we deal with. And you have to like be at school. So we went to my doctor and my doctor was like 100 % will put her on birth control. Like there was no discussion as to what, why I was having such issues. And now I know it's not normal, you know, and the pill definitely made things more regular and better in some ways, but I still had to go through a whole pack of painkillers every single month for me to be able to go to school.

6:16And, you know, and that was just like my reality and I sort of just accepted that and you know I think that then I got IBS and you just don't like create these links right you just treat everything in complete isolation but yeah I'm interested what was your period like I mean I would bleed through like an overnight pad in like an hour and it would be like that for two weeks and was it always like that it was like that for a long time yeah and I was in fifth sixth grade so nobody else had their period and I went to like Catholic school and had to wear like a little skirt every day. And I'll never forget being in church.

6:55And there was blood coming down my legs. And I got up to and Mrs. Davitt was our teacher that year. And she was very she was friends with my grandma. She was a very like stern teacher. She wasn't like a warm, cozy teacher. She was like very she was like the scary. It's like, OK, like getting Mrs. Davitt. And she looked at me. She said, you need to sit down. And I said, I need to use the restroom. She said, not now. Yeah. And I sat down and I was like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Like, you know, and then I got up again and she looked at me and I said, I have blood coming down my legs. And she was like, oh, and she'd never had a student that had their period before.

7:30So that was a poor thing. I remember her coming in and being like, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, but like, and she looked at me so differently the rest of the year, just with like so much empathy, you know, getting your hormones that young and being that emotional and like being in that physical pain yeah so young it's just so fucking overwhelming and not normal and my general practitioner put me on you know a slew of pills and I always felt like I was in a daze and they gave me Adderall but then Adderall so I needed Xanax and so these things were directly to help with your period or it was more of like other symptoms that you were other symptoms because you were yeah okay fine I mean my constipation yeah yeah me too awful like i was like i need to go to the hospital like i guess gastroenterologist and it was like and i just remember my like sweet mom who like now i'm a mom and i just want to cry thinking about she would be like oh okay okay so we'll okay so we're gonna do that like she was just like this is what we're doing like and trusted that and like why shouldn't she yeah these are doctors so i get it but we just know so much more now so now i know all those things are linked and like I'm almost 40 and I now feel okay but it's yeah of course that little girl who was bleeding out for two weeks took almost two years to get pregnant of course exactly you know I do think we're coming into a new age of education and information for women and there's almost going to be like a little mini revolution I think just because we've been told that our pain is okay and that we have to deal with it and that all of this is normal and it's about us dealing with stuff like this but also expecting ourselves to you know outperform everybody in the workplace and at home and be the best mother and friend and it's trying to deal with all of these things at the same time that is really like the main issue I think for women it's just like how much we expect of ourselves but I think you know not to be a bit depressing but we got our periods when we were 11 which is actually like the average age for girls to get their periods for our generation.

9:34But now, yeah, so there's a big hormonal shift happening. And one of the easiest ways for us to really look at it and be like, okay, that has really changed is that girls are now getting their periods two years younger. So now most girls are actually getting it around the age of eight. Eight is a baby. Eight is a baby, A, but also, again, there are studies that show that the girls that used to get their periods much younger are more likely to develop things like breast cancer. I think there's like an increased percentage of like 20%, you're 20 % more likely to develop breast cancer if you've developed your period early.

10:14So you know, these are the types of things that I feel very interested in the context of developing products because everything we've always developed has been endocrine safe. I mean, now with the popularity of fragrance as a category obviously fragrance is everywhere anyway right like it's in like our detergent and it's in absolutely everything that we use but it's also in all of the personal care products and in our cosmetics and and all of this stuff and i think specifically with the fragrance boom because fragrance as a category is outperforming almost everything in beauty and then we're also seeing these like big hormonal changes in women i just think there needs to be a little bit of an awareness as to like the connection and also just potential things that we could do to just lower like the toxic load on ourselves.

11:04The fragrance thing really hit me hard when I was trying to get pregnant and read that when people make embryos in labs that no one's allowed to wear fragrance because it'll affect the ability for an embryo to form. And listen, I went off the deep end in wellness when I had my first podcast and was like scared of everything and I was horrible things can't come in plastic and nobody can have any fragrance and like no one can do this and now I'm like you know what I you have to I don't find joy I find joy enjoy a bad girl cigarette every year and there totally fucking stress totally but totally there are good choices that you can make my house absolutely especially you know what I choose to do on a Saturday is one thing to my own body.

11:55But I say like for my children and my animals and especially, you know, because Carmela sees a functional medicine doctor. Like if I, you know, I just choose non-toxic home care items. I personally don't wear fragrance. Dobbity wears enough for the fucking two of us. I'm very nervous about his lifestyle choices, but I'm also not going to imagine. He'll probably be fine because he's not a woman. And, you know, they can just roll up and do stuff like that like Charlie my husband my version of Davide he'll like roll up home and he'll be like Matilda I got you Matilda my daughter I got you a bath bomb and I'll just be looking at it and be like that is a bowl of shit and she's just gonna sit there and I'll just be like I'm gonna find yours I'll be like okay like enjoy it and then you know he'll like come three days later with a whole box of them like Missilda love the bath bombs I'm like no throw them in the bin so But just like you, I think, you know, probably when we launched Nuco, there was like this big like wellness boom and craze.

12:52And I think specifically about around food, people were really villainizing food. And I did the whole thing that you just talked about as well when I was trying to get pregnant and I was having miscarriages and I was, you know, you just become neurotic. You become neurotic because you're also like, this is my fault. And like, it's the things that I'm doing and I need to fix myself. And you hear all these stories. And so, of course, you become like, of course you're going to become crazy because we do live in a very toxic environment. Yeah. But I think that, you know, when, like when it comes to food, like I would say like, oh, I'm a really healthy person.

13:24But the reason that I think I'm really healthy, I hardly ever work out. I hardly like do all of the like wellness-y things, but I practice like intuitive eating. And what that means for me is I just connect food with how I want to feel. Yeah. Like, and not anything else, like how I want to look or whatever. And I think that if you have the information and you're just aware of things, you can make little choices in your day. Like you say, like you can do the bath bomb once, like maybe let's not then cover her in like body lotion that's covered in, you know, fragrances and stuff like that. Like you can make little choices in your day to just lessen the load.

13:56And then the other thing that I feel really passionate about, and I think, which is one of the reasons why Nuko doesn't maybe like look like a traditional wellness brand is that I didn't, I wanted to provide a solution that didn't feel like a compromise. Yes. So like our functional fragrances, yes, they're clean. Yes, they're endocrine safe and blah, blah, blah, blah. But with everything that we make, we work with the best perfumers. So we work with the noses behind like Tom Ford or La Labo. And we'll work with the two big fragrance houses. So like Shepardin and Feminish. And I want people to use our fragrances because they love them, because they feel really special.

14:33Amazing. And I was so honored to do that campaign when I was pregnant. I remember you know you were one of our best performing oh my god you were one of our best performing partners and yeah I think it's because you know of your background well I'd spoken so much about fragrance at that point too and I didn't want to fear monger but I people would ask me and I'd just be like you know I'm trying to get pregnant and this is something the fragrance thing gets really sensitive in our house when it comes to detergent because I'm sure in Colombia like how good does laundry smell in Colombia yeah like laundry in Italy smells so good like Like when we do our laundry when we're there, like, and that's the smell that David is like, this is home to me.

15:11Like this reminds me of my mom. But it's the detergent. It's the fucking fragrance. I was going to say, I actually think this is probably one of the reasons that my whole, you know, period and cycle and all of that stuff kicked off was because I lived in Colombia. So although I ate organic food, I lived in the countryside. So everything was amazing. But yeah, like the fashion, we had like baby perfume. And it literally. Carmela's grandparents, her godparents gave her baby perfume. Yeah. I was literally like bathed in like baby perfume. And yeah. Dabrida puts 20. I count it every morning to troll him.

15:45But he, I literally go, he'll go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, all over. Like when he's not, when he's out of the shower, his skin smells like his Cologne. Yeah. Yeah. He's been dousing himself. I always say to each other, oh my God, if you're going to gas yourself, can you go to like a separate room in the house away from me and the kids because he puts him on call the other day and I was like I didn't want to ruin the moment because it was cute because he like sat him on the vanity and like put little gel on his hair and like sprayed him and then like slopped his cheeks like a little man and I was like I looked at him I was like okay I'm gonna be I'm not gonna be a naggy wife I was like this is such a cute moment so I'm gonna let it ride and then later that night I was like please don't ever spray cologne on our baby yeah I know you have to choose joy but then we'll say no like i can't because if i you know but i get it but so he he got so upset a few weeks ago because when we got back from it he's like our laundry doesn't smell like anything and i'm like no we have fragrance free i use attitude detergent and it's really great and so i i did a lot of research online and like find one that like has some sort of fragrance that smells good i can't remember who i oh i think i can't remember which one the lawn dress yes apparently has one that's like non-toxic yeah that's what it was yeah but you know I'm like typing it into yucca I'm typing it into ewg and I was just like I don't want to do that to the babies you know because especially now I mean listen I don't want to even get into an autism conversation because it's a fucking layer I've been honestly thinking about because obviously I've only been here for a week and everything here is crazy America it's so fucking crazy.

17:20And I have just been, yeah, I've just been thinking about how you must feel. Sorry, we won't go to this side of the conversation, but I've just been thinking about it. And it just, I can't even imagine what it's like to have this type of topic be so politicized. And like, they're doing that. So it's like, it is what, you know. But for you that is in it, I just, anyway. I'm just like, we're talking about it. I don't know. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I definitely, and I've spent the morning kind of like, I always like to just like, look at what people and I'm like wow a lot of people just don't have like you just like lost it like you're so far off the deep end and like unavailable for conversation because you're so mad about other things and so every single thing that comes out has to be wrong yeah and there's no I'll say one thing that I'm really irritated about is like and I don't have any skin in the game with any of these people right but like lucavorn has changed our life and hearing people seeing people talk about it.

18:17And I know that you deal with this with like, with like, you know, comments on paid ads. Just where you're just like, you don't even know you're talking about. You don't know anything. You don't know anything. Also, science changes all the time. But someone said, you know, Dr. Oz is an investor in lucavore. And that's why they're telling you to use it because he just wants to give it. And I want to be like, do you guys know that like every product? I know. If you want to boycoat one thing. There's an investor behind it. Yes, totally. And like, as a doctor, and like I could, as a doctor who has seen that it works, like obviously you would invest in that product.

18:51Like every athlete has like invested in the products that they like companies that I worked with, but like I'm an investor in and so I promote them. Like that's just called being smart. Like it's like financially smart. Like, I don't know. And so I was like, that's not, if it's working, like you think this person would invest money in and if it wasn't working, I just, that's just not even good business strategy. So I was like, you're just mad at this person. Yes, exactly. You're avoiding it, but like you should ask people who are using it which is like my daughter said i'm hungry for the first time i know you know she also ice cream or something yeah she was in the back of the car so we don't know if what she says is because she's just like scripting because she repeats things but it was like really funny she was in the car she's like i want ice cream and i was like fuck we were like on our way somewhere else and i was like i can't get ice cream right now and then i told david a day later or i called him and i was like she said and he was like we're going right now and i was like she's not going to associate those two things but that's oh amazing like Like really, really, really cute.

19:43But yeah, no, I mean, that's something else that has been really interesting. Just working at NuCo and really trying to be led by science and testing and clinical research and just how much things change. And also how much you can't always like get to a really like concrete answer. Like science doesn't have it all, unfortunately. and I always watch people like well they'll be like well the research says but I'm like two people can interpret the same totally research so differently and they're going to interpret it in the way that benefits whatever argument they're trying to make so I just always look at it all very lightly because I'm just kind of like there's a lot of nuance and like yeah and you know I think like the rise of like biohacking or whatever which to me is more of like you're trying out new things and different things you're seeing what works for you when you're you know I think that there's like real merit in that as well.

20:39I mean, obviously always use brands that you trust and like brands are really transparent with their ingredients and blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think that, that, you know, really being able to have a conversation with your body is like the number one thing. And actually it's one of the things that I love most about pregnancy and probably even like trying to conceive phase. Like this was something that I found really interesting, which was when I would get these horrible periods, they would just be like sprung up on me. Like I would be at, I don't know, like an event or something. And I would just be like, oh my God, my period's come and it's so heavy.

21:10And then when I was trying to get pregnant, that like two week wait, I would have all of these crazy symptoms. I'd be like, I'm a hundred percent pregnant. I've got these, like, you know, my boobs are hurting. I'm nauseous, all this stuff. And then my period would come and I would be like, I probably, my body probably does this every cycle. And I just don't hear it because I'm not paying attention because I'm on the go because I'm working and like I'm so in tune with my body now that like I can really listen. And I think that, you know, if you're really trying to improve your health and you're trying to take supplements, you're trying to take, you know, medication or whatever, it's like really being in tune with like how your body is responding to things.

21:48That's probably like the number one thing that I would recommend versus even like sometimes looking at some study. I mean, it's particularly actually when you look at hormones, because I think that people are so quick to poo poo studies when it comes to hormones, because they're so hard to control, particularly when it comes to, you know, like chemical exposure, because we're exposed to so many different chemicals all the time. So it's really hard to be like, okay, if you're exposed to this chemical at this level, this is going to happen. It's almost like impossible to have such a concrete study.

22:19But that doesn't mean that these chemicals aren't having an effect. It's just that we don't know to what level they're having the effects. So it's still like, I always say like science should be more of like a precaution, not like never use these things. It's more like, okay, these products, these ingredients are having an effect on hormones. We don't exactly know what that means. So maybe lessening the load is like a good idea. Yeah, I think that's a very, well, that's what I took out of the Tylenol thing. It's like, also if you have a fever and that's going to affect your child, please use Tylenol.

22:56But if you're using anything all the time, I don't know if that's good. you know, I don't, it's just kind of like, let's just be, it's a totally normal and sensible way to look at things. And there are so many different factors as well, you know, that they're thinking that are possible links. And it's more about, you know, when all of these things come together, but you know, one of the, so when I was having reoccurring miscarriages, I was put on progesterone and also aspirin. And I took that every day of my pregnancy up until like six months to sustain the pregnancies. And I did that with - What does the aspirin do?

23:35It's a blood thinner. It's a blood thinner. Yeah. So I think I was like prone to like blood clots. Oh, got it. And I still had like, I had like a subchronic hematoma was my first, but you know, that ended up giving me like a stomach ulcer and all that stuff. So I had ulcers from taking so much aspirin when my period was so bad when I was little. That's it. It just burns because it eats away at the lining in your stomach. Yeah. Which is just, you know, everything has a side effect. But like that was so ulcer pain is awful. Awful. You heard that when you were pregnant? No, I got it when I gave birth.

24:06Oh, all the fun. That's fun. All the fun stuff that comes after you give birth. But that's amazing that you've got like your periods under control and yeah. Miracle. Yeah. I want to talk to you about a founder because I really like the way that you about fundraising and spending money. And you and I have a very similar view. And I'm about to go through this with Baranchini. Davide, we only did a very small round of friends and family. And then LPA is a partnership with Revolve. So that's, you know, and so now, you know, I'm in the middle of like a six week rebrand, five weeks now rebrand, and then we're going to raise.

24:42And yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited because because of how you and I think about things, which is I'm not somebody who's going to spend fucking 20 million dollars to make 25. You know, like I don't. And I have a girl who's been working with us. The first thing I did was get like a freelance operator to put all the numbers and everything together. And she has us being profitable like year two. Amazing. You know, like and so I want to talk to you about that because, you know, I think our generation of women grew up with like the boss babe era was all these headlines of like how much money these women had raised.

25:20And there are so many companies that spend so much fucking money and like being in any sort of industry, like even with fashion, like I'll look at certain fashion brands and I'm like, oh, you guys are just burning money. So much money. You guys are just setting money on fire with that fashion show. Like, I know you're not making that, but there's someone funding it who's like, you know, we're going to spend X amount until we get here and then, you know, whatever. So I think a lot of things, there's like a lot of romance behind all of this stuff where for me, like even when we do fundraise and I'll probably end up raising hopefully, you know, like a$3 million, like I will still be on a budget.

25:57Like it's not like I'm going to be flying first class Italy to do like product development. Like I will still be in the back of the plane. We will still asking, be asking people for favors for doing events for us, like all of that. So tell me about like your experience of like because you went and like pitched the brand before you even really had the brand yeah I was 23. Davide did the same thing by the way he was like I have a company and everyone was like what's the company and then he had to like work backwards. Totally I mean yeah I was 23 I was a kid I had like absolutely no idea what I was doing I'd never spoken to an investor I lived in the UK I had had no friends in the US I you know I was just landed here and actually the real story as to why I originally was like I should build a business was that I was working for an agency and my husband who has always been an entrepreneur was like let's go on holiday and I was like I've used up all my holiday allowance and he was like you can't live your life like this yeah of course he was just like you're you're not built for that life wait how long have you guys been together we've been together for like 13 years oh my god yeah I'm so yeah yeah got married after two but so you were like I'm changing my lifestyle.

27:04He was just like, you got to quit this job and like build something. And then I was like, well, actually, I've always had this idea. And then, you know, it sort of like took off from there. And will you explain to people? I know why, but can you explain to people why you launched in the US instead of the UK? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, in the UK, about 40 percent of people take supplements. It's now when we launched, it was like 32 percent or something. And now it's like got a lot higher because of COVID and the NHS has really embraced supplements so like they're sort of prescribing things like vitamin d and it was just so crazy to even say that that was not happening before covid but here i just think because you guys don't have accessibility to health care in the same way there's a much bigger focus and preventative and so the pitch here was like we're making these you know tools for well-being supplements topicals and they're just cleaner and better because of xyz whereas in the uk i would have to educate people as to why they should be even taking supplements and why they should be thinking about these types of ingredients so it was just a much easier pitch when obviously like way bigger market you know investment was everywhere I launched like a couple of years after Glossier and Ritual and I felt like investors literally didn't know where to park their money it was crazy it was crazy yeah like it was crazy so we I had this idea for the brand I collaborated with my grandfather who was, you know, my mentor.

28:31He was like, it's funny that everybody's talking about Tylenol now because this was like his big thing as well was he, he was in pharmaceuticals and he also led a lot of research around certain vitamins and supplements and stuff, but he lived until he was 93 and he obviously used things like painkillers, but it was, it was like a serious thing. He'd have to be under a lot of pain because he was always talking about how high they were in sodium and its effects on the liver and you know so he was a chemist and he was science first but he was actually like what we were like wellness-y as well in that sense well because he could see the science yeah and he just knew how things were made so and yeah i think my mom's also from columbia i grew up there i mean like wellness again there is health care like we were like reducing fevers with vinegar and things like that that was just totally normal how i grew up And so I, you know, I had like all of these insights.

29:25And when basically Charlie was like, you should set up on your own. I was like, actually, I think I've kind of been working on this idea forever. And I got introduced to a buyer in Net-A-Porter and they just launched into wellness and they had these not so nice brands on their platform. And I was like, look, I'm doing all of the right things from a formulation perspective. I'm working with my grandfather. He's a professor at Cambridge. He's introduced me to the lab in Cambridge we're working with and so and so. And but I was like, from a brand perspective, I really want to create something that really blurs the lines between health and beauty and fashion because I didn't want people to have this like trade off.