My Honest Thoughts on Influencer Culture

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

0:14Hi, how is everybody? Thank you for tuning in. I'm going to record a cute recap with Davide of our trip because he's busy working and it's definitely cuter when he's on it with me, but I thought I would talk about our recent online hour, us as the hour as the community, about all of the recent feedback online sparked by the no influencer sign in Nantucket. because there isn't just, I mean, I don't think that there is just one possible way to view something that is so unbelievably nuanced. And so I see everybody's takes and I love watching everybody's takes. You know, I've said this multiple times, like I am in a really good place in my life where I don't have quick reactions to certain things.

1:18I like to just sit with things for a while and kind of see how I feel. And, you know, I think this trip was interesting for me because this was really the first time that I've been on this trip. And, you know, I've been to Sicily at least once, if not, you know, twice, three times a year for nine years now. And this trip in particular felt like I needed to be like a content machine. And that's like on me to feel that way. Nobody told me I needed to do that. it was like pressure I was putting on myself, but it was definitely like a response to Cicely now all of a sudden being like a trendy place to go and people creating a lot of content around it.

2:11I'm like, Oh my God, this dark place. So we should try to, you know, like, I was like, we have to figure out a way to, to show this. And then, you know, obviously I was like, who, what are you doing? Like, like, who are you? Like you're, you know, I'm so like authentically myself and I try to view myself through my own eyes. Like I'm not a cinematographer and I don't need to have some sort of, like, I don't need to like buy a camera and I can use my old point and shoots. I can use my phone, you know, whatever. But the Sicily situation was really odd for us because it's like, it's very odd for my husband to see a place that's so personal to him become a place used for people to get likes and comments and engagement.

3:00Everything I'm going to say has so many layers to it. I do think it's really frustrating for a lot of people that it seems like you have to be able to create like such a high level of content to like hit the algorithm. And so for like a, you know, I saw someone the other day who's an interior designer that was like, I'm refusing to have to feel like I need to like learn how to become a photographer at 45 when I have talent. And so I'm just going to continue to post photos and trust that the right people are being brought to me to like show my work. And so that I get valid point. And then on the other end, I am so happy for people that are able to display their talents and build a life off of real talent, you know, creating content that is beautiful and cinematic and to die for.

3:56I also feel like that's really hurting, you know, quote unquote, like real photographers, people who haven't in the industry for a long time, because when I, you know, was growing up in the industry, especially in my twenties, I lived and socialized and was friends with and was very much in community with photographers in New York City, like Ryan McGinley and Tim Barber and Kenneth Capello and Angela Boatwright. And this was the era of Terry Richardson. And a lot of my friends worked for him or dated him. And when you are that kind of photographer, you have a studio and you have a studio manager and you have somebody who books all your jobs and you have your assistants and those assistants, you know, start out as like young kids in the city who have like a dream to become photographers.

4:50And at the time you could have like a blog to show off your photography, but you would intern for a photographer and then you would be a second assistant. You would work your way up to first assistant and then you would eventually start to get your own jobs. And I knew endless people. That's what they did. And that was the way in which that they, you know, came up in the ranks. And I am saddened that that process in any industry seems to have kind of turned into dust and blown away. At the same time, I'm so happy that so many people have the opportunity to create a life and an income for themselves, that I think is undeniably so important.

5:39So that made me think a little bit deeper about this bigger conversation that's going on and everybody's responses to it. And I know that this sounds obvious and I say this all the time, but I think it's really important. A lot of things have happened in my life in the last few years where I feel a lot of freedom and emotional regulation by having grace for everybody's particular perspective because everyone is right through their eyes. Because we have all had such different life experiences and you absolutely cannot think that everybody is going to view everything the same by any means. And so, you know, I'm going to get into perhaps like a more negative aspect of things or whatever, but I want to really start this episode by talking about how much community I have felt in the last like 20 years that I've engaged with the internet in a public way.

7:00And, you know, when I had my blog, I would like see random people on the street and they'd be like, Pia, you're doing great. Like they were like, what I remember the first time it was a girl in New York and she like high-fived me and I was like, oh, I don't know. Like, I think you got the wrong person. And she was like, no, you're Pia, I read your blog. And I was like, whoa, oh my God. Like, I remember calling my mom and just being like, somebody's like reading what I'm writing. This is so cool. Obviously you could see on the backend, but, but you know, having that kind of human interaction and having that become like more and more prevalent and more and more people being online.

7:40Like, um, like I remember when Instagram started, I was in the reformation office and I was like, I'm gonna make an Instagram account. And everybody was like, you don't need Instagram because there's Facebook. And like, it was, you know, all very fascinating. and I'm just aging myself, but I would post photos of like Cindy Crawford and Taylor Swift and Lena Dunham and like all these people wearing clothes that we designed in the office. And it was a really cool time. And I was going to go work at Zara and I ended up getting a job with Revolve doing LPA instead. And that was from Instagram because Risa at Revolve saw that I had posted that I was going to move to Spain and work for Zara as a fucking designer.

8:26And I say that because so often people will say like, oh, LPA is like an influencer brand. And I was like, no, I was hired to do LPA because I was a designer at Reformation and had been the brand manager there. So I had the marketing sense and the design sense. So it was like a one-two punch. And it was all very authentic. And so when people started using the word influencer, against me to like undermine me. It took me like many years to figure out, like to grapple with being called that. And like, why was that upsetting to me? And I was like, so confusing on so many levels, because if I am making money now off of Instagram, which was so weird and like random that that happened, cause it wasn't my plan.

9:17Cause especially when I had a blog and the blog started blowing up, it was like, all these other bloggers who are now famous were really serious about their blogs and started monetizing their blogs. And I kept saying to myself, I cannot make money off of a fucking blog. That's not real. I have to have real jobs and I have to have real talent and I have to keep working and I have to have something that I could fall back on. And I purposely stopped doing the blog because I didn't want to be known for being a blogger, which is so crazy because now all of those people are like, you know, have millions of followers on Instagram and make these like huge full careers for themselves.

9:58And at the time I just thought like, that's not, there's no way that's going to be like a thing. Like there's no fucking way. And even at that time, it was kind of like this kind of like negative thing.

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14:49I remember getting my first Instagram job and I can't even remember what it was, but I just remember thinking, wow, like this is really so fascinating. And so I think what's interesting now is that you have people that like millions of them who just create content for the sake of creating content to get influencer jobs. And I think like that's where a lot of this is like this odd gray area. And I see this a lot when it comes to like brands and all these things where I'm just like, if we're all just doing what's trending on fucking Instagram, like where are the real people? And we're all just melding into being like one weird consciousness on fucking line.

15:43And it's like, so that's what makes me so upset. It's like, I mean, I did a panel and all the questions from these young girls were about how to become an influencer and an entrepreneur. and they kept asking like, how do I figure out what my thing is? And I was like, this is so fucking ass backwards. Like you're supposed to work and live your life and do all these exciting things and, and know who you are so deeply and be so specifically you that that inspires other people. And that's like the side of all of this shit that really bothers me. And I'm really bothered by exploiting things for likes, especially speaking negatively of other women, which women do on TikTok all the fucking time.

16:39I'm really curious about everybody's parasocial relationships. I have no clue what that's going to lead to, but I have, you know, mostly had just such powerful and wonderful interactions with people because of this. And I know that because we're all on our phones, there is this very large separation, but I definitely don't feel that way. I don't feel that way at all. And this also to acknowledge nuance could be because of my very specific, very outgoing personality, I was born like this. I've been extremely outgoing to a fault since I was, I mean, they started talking at six months old and I would say, hi, I love you to strangers in the grocery store.

17:24So I'm like dying pining, by the way, I am my mom, my mom, we cannot go anywhere without her engaging in like a very deep conversation with a stranger at the bank, Trader Joe's, Ralph's. She is consistently, and I'm that way too. I love to just strike up a combo. That's a really big part of why I love traveling. We met so many great people, obviously from Sicily, but I love meeting travelers. I love meeting people at hotels. I love meeting people at hotels and I love talking to them. and there's a couple that goes to the same hotel that we go to every year. And they happen to be there again at the exact same time as us.

18:10And we like, she was like, I've been keeping up with you all year. And I was like, oh my God, you're, I didn't even know you followed me. And now we're connected and we're following each other. And I get, I remembered everything about her daughter from last year. It was like, no time had passed. And it's like a, you know, they're, I think maybe in their fifties, they're from Ukraine, they live in Chicago. They have teenage kids. Like I love them and I love talking to them and I love, and so for me being able to do that all day fucking long for my phone is fucking awesome. And it's definitely like a huge dopamine hit for me.

18:46And I've had to create a lot of boundaries because this is all progressed so quickly for everybody. And you know, it's definitely like something that we didn't anticipate and haven't put any rules around and we have to be responsible adults and police ourself. And I absolutely let the negative aspect of all of this get the best of me way more than I should. I used to not so much anymore, but I actually think being a little bit sensitive to negative things I see about myself or when somebody like DMs me or something, I think that like makes me not a sociopath and like I would prefer to not be a sociopath.

19:27I'm okay with that. But, you know, especially like going through Carmela's diagnosis and hiding her from the internet and then sharing her. And I know that there's so much nuance and feedback about sharing your children online. And like, I like agree, like, I don't necessarily really think children should be online. But like, I also just feel so much joy and connection, seeing like other people's children. And, and I really like the autism community, you know, again, really nuanced has, I mean, the messages that I get on a daily basis and I get them from therapy. I was at a restaurant in Pasadena a couple of months ago before we left for a trip and a woman came up to me and she is an OT and a mom.

20:20And she said, I can't tell you how often I like recommend your Instagram to my clients or people like, and I'm just like, oh, that's great. You know, if I can like encourage a mom to like, you know, be able to live with a diagnosis that doesn't feel like you're constantly under a gray cloud and that you can still live your life and do happy things. Like if that, if something I did like positively affected someone, oh my God. Oh my God. How un-fucking-believable. And then what really blows my mind all the time. And I don't, I don't even really talk about it that much, but when I will go online and say like, Hey, like we need, you know, to raise money for this patient at UCLA, you know, he just passed away.

21:15He's someone that we worked with and volunteered with and they don't have money for the funeral. And like, there's$10 ,000 in my Venmo in 24 hours. Like, Oh my, like, and I didn't even, you know, there's things that I'll do like a couple stories. And then I never do like a follow-up because I also do think I don't want to be like exploitative of those types of moments, but they're huge moments for other people. Huge. Imagine a family not having to go into debt to bury their son because a lot of you gave like a dollar or 200. It's like that type of power and being able to help other people's businesses and being able to help anybody feel not so alone and, you know, going somewhere and having someone be like, oh my God, like I followed you since you were single.

22:11And like knowing that side of me, or even like the other day, there was a group of women in this like tiny restaurant in this like little square in this little town. And they were from various places, but they were speaking English and they were talking about being single. All three of them were single. They're all really successful. They all work for the same company. And I could hear them kind of like workshopping, you know, if they find a partner and whether or not they want kids and doing self-work. And, you know, it was a very typical conversation of a woman in her late 20s, early 30s, who is successful and intelligent and beautiful and single and, you know, like trying to call in that next step of their life, but enjoying where they are.

23:00And I couldn't help but overhear it. And I, as we were leaving, I like stood up and I like put my hands on their shoulders and I was like, I couldn't help but overhear conversation. And then one girl was like, oh, I listened to your podcast. I'm actually like, and that like, you know, and I, and I hate, I just realized as I'm saying this, it sounds like I so self-obsessed, but it wasn't about me. Her, it was like, she was like, Oh, I heard you say that on, I listened to your podcast, heard you say that. And so we were able to immediately just like deep dive into this conversation about being single and calling in your person.

23:34And they were asking me about kids and you know, it was, it was just, it's a beautiful thing, you know, that we all, I mean, we're all striving and I've done so many podcasts with so many authors and we did that one podcast with the doctor who has been working on the United States, like longest running research project. Um, like John F. Kennedy was a part of it. I, the whole, the book that he is writing is escaping me right now. Um, but like the longest scientific research study that's like still currently happening in America, like interviews and does physical tests on people and it comes down, it's like a study on happiness.

24:21And literally we are so designed to be in community. And, you know, Malcolm Gladwell talks about that in outliers, like the Italian village that was being built or that was built by immigrants and somewhere in the Northeast, I think it was like outside of Pennsylvania or around there. And they were outliers because they weren't dying of heart disease the same way the rest of America was. And so they studied them and they smoked and they ate pizza and they drank and they did all the stereotypical things that you think of with Italians, including knowing each other and sharing meals and having coffee together in the morning, all the neighbors and having drinks all together at the end of the night.

25:13And the men, like they still do, would gather in the park and talked to each other a bitch about politics and the women would go off and do the same. And that was the outlier was that they were in community together. And so, you know, I don't like someone could argue that the phone is also separating us so much. And of course, I'm going to agree with that. But on the positive side of things like, you know, while I don't think that we should be able to have access to so many different people because, you know, there is so much room for judgment of things that we don't know and are scary to us. And I have a lot of grace for that too.

25:52And, you know, that's where it gets really tough and tricky. But for the most part, you know, everybody really just like is in community with one another. And I've seen so many women be able to start businesses and women and men be able to start businesses and to promote themselves and to help each other. And, you know, there is like a level of responsibility that comes with that. And so I think like, that's what I ask for you to look for. And by the way, again, another nuance, I don't think that everybody necessarily needs to constantly be telling you their political stance or, you know, immediate response to global tragedies and certain things that are going on.

26:33And I actually think it's probably a lot better for us to like avoid those conversations sometimes, because if you're not staring eye to eye with somebody, it is really hard to have a helpful conversation. I wish that there was policing. And I guess that's not the right word at all. Monitoring or like decorum around comment sections. Like I wish that was like not a thing. Yeah. I always think, and I wouldn't do it because I don't want that many eyes on me, oddly enough. But I always think like if I was going to do a subway take, my take would be that we need to eradicate comment sections. We've like, you know, we need to like, we got an opportunity and we blew it because they're so, they can be so mean.

27:23And so maybe it has to be, and I know that you can put restrictions on that kind of stuff too. So I guess that would be like another response to it. but I oftentimes can get very sad when I, and I don't look at them often, but I'll look at anything, a news source or I'll even make a positive comment on something and someone like it's happened or it'll happen on my page so much where like somebody will say something and then there'll be a disagreement and the instant responses from people are so, they're so mean to each other. And I'm just like, whoa, like whenever that happens, I just like delete it right away.

27:56Cause I'm like, this can't like live in my, you know, happy bubble on my Instagram page. like what is happening? And it makes me want to cry that people are so excited to burn someone at the stake while being so obsessed with them that they're buying everything that they're suggesting. It's so fucking odd. There's no fucking backbone to any of this shit at all. So while everybody is so quick to have all these opinions about all these people online, stop engaging with it. Create the world that you want by removing the engagement. Period. Full stop. And so like putting up a no influencer sign in a store, which by the way, I understand because these young influencers have a real fucking attitude because they've never been humbled enough.

28:58And so, and I hate to generalize, but I could see where a store that's been around for a hundred years doesn't want their flow of traffic and their energy in their space to be disrupted by content being made and people who are perhaps being rude because they're not really engaging with the product, using the store as a means for content rather than, you know, purchasing something. I know a lot of influencers that are so excited to constantly get free stuff. There's like this thing about, you know, we're always DMing people like, or someone will like, if I post my chiropractor or whatever, they'll be like, do they do trade?