Post-Wealth Expert: How To Re-ignite Drive and Energy After Financial Success

0:00Hello, everyone. Today we're going to talk about how we reignite our drive and energy after we achieve financial freedom and how we get the most out of our time. time when we come into wealth sooner or later most of us arrive to two conclusions number one that time is our biggest asset life is too short and we want to tick items off our bucket list as soon as possible we also only want to to spend our precious time on things that truly matter health family meaningful relationships the second idea is that energy in the moment is our wisest guide energy guides us and if a person or activity energizes us we lean into it but if it drains us we move away.

1:02We optimize for time and energy. And this feels like ultimate wisdom. This time and energy framework is dominant in the post-wealth world today. Yet here is what I found. 10-20 years later this kind of thinking it doesn't lead us to the life we expect instead it leads us to a life that's comfortable but flat low drive low energy low aliveness little pull towards anything extraordinary. I also found that true post-wealth sages, people whose lives we instinctively admire, they do things differently. They too care deeply about time and energy, but they approach this differently and they end up with a different kind of life.

2:09They feel both content and energized calm yet fully alive all in in whatever projects they choose without burning out they live a life of compounding fulfillment to be fair it takes those sages decades of painful trial trial and error to master this we however are going to learn the basics of that attitude today and in our future calls we are going to take it to more advanced levels and we'll talk about purpose and mission so what actually happens to our drive and energy post-wealth why is it even a problem let's talk about what i call the post wealth apathy most of us coming to wealth burnt out by years of hard work so our priority very naturally becomes to stop chasing to learn to let go to enjoy the moment to finally relax so we optimize our lives for ease comfort and pleasure we delegate whatever we don't want to do and why wouldn't we haven't we earned this right through years of struggle and self-sacrifice so we build habits around ease and comfort in those first few years after we come into wealth we surround ourselves with others living a similar lifestyle and you know what it's healthy It's nourishing.

3:58It's even necessary. And it feels great. Life is finally good. But here is the problem. Soon something starts to feel off. We don't really want anything. Not enough to actually do it. Not enough to sacrifice our peace and comfort. We are not driven and energized the way we used to be, the way we want to be. We don't feel fully alive. So we try to reignite our driving energy. We get fit, we stay busy, we go on adventures, we spend time with family and people we care about. We are doing all the right things. Yet our drive is not coming back. Our energy is still lacking. In fact, we become increasingly reluctant to fully engage with life.

5:04And for some, the strongest desire becomes to actually have desires. We say, I want to want. This is the post-wealth apathy. and it's common and it can last for years even decades apathy is not just unpleasant it's dangerous left unaddressed it can lead to accelerated brain aging alzheimer's disease and dementia post-wealth apathy prevents us from finding purpose and mission leading to painful regret later in life. The post-wealth apathy can destroy our life and it does not resolve on its own. So how do we break out? By mastering its biochemistry. Let's talk about the biochemistry of the post-wealth apathy.

6:06Apathy is not laziness or lack of character or discipline. it's a biochemical state when our brain sees no reason to engage our brain is wired to conserve energy so if there is no reason there will be no engagement if there is no reason to engage it will not release dopamine and when we are low on dopamine we are low drive low energy and low aliveness. When we optimize our life for ease and comfort, we actually signal to our brain not to release dopamine. And this is not the full story, because at the same time, cortisol, the molecule of stress, often stays elevated for years post-12. And this happens in response to very common scenarios post-12, when we feel fear of losing our hard-earned wealth, when we feel incompetent as investors, when we have self-doubts and imposter syndrome and lost identity.

7:18Chronic high cortisol further discourages risk and effort. Apathy is a state when we have chronic low dopamine and very often chronic high cortisol. Apathy leads to less brain stimulation and over time the brain adapts to this low stimulation state because that's what the human brain does it adapts to our circumstances so disengagement becomes the default effort feels heavier and initiative feels harder we often feel tired we get stuck in a self-reinforcing apathy loop where low engagement leads to low dopamine which leads to low drive and even less engagement. And apathy persists when our brain forgets that effort leads to reward.

8:26And apathy resolves when our brain relearns that effort leads to reward. But retraining our brain is hard. So when we crave feeling alive, we seek easy ways to boost dopamine, alcohol and drugs, love affairs and porn, day trading, social networks, gambling, sugary foods. Dopamine spikes and drops. We feel energized and then we quickly feel drained. And then we seek easy fixes again. Soon enough, we get addicted. Addiction leads to unstable dopamine. And you know what? We don't like the person we've become. Unfocused, unproductive, undriven. Nobody creates outlier success if they don't want to be a very different kind of person.

9:27So addiction leads to dissatisfaction with ourselves, which leads to high and unstable cortisol and chronic stress. Addiction means unstable dopamine and unstable high cortisol. And this is the opposite of where we want to be, in a place of healthy drive and energy. And the formula for that state is stable high dopamine and stable low cortisol. So apathy means chronic low dopamine and chronic high cortisol. Apathy and addiction mean volatile dopamine and volatile cortisol. Biochemistry teaches us that if we optimize our life for ease and comfort, we end up in low driving energy and chronic low-grade stress.

10:27So what's the solution? The solution is to build a healthy dopamine loop. Stable high dopamine plus stable low cortisol. But this is not what most of us are doing. And that time and energy framework, the popular one, is partly to blame. So what's wrong with it? Let's look at the first idea. Time is our biggest asset. It's true. But when we optimize for time, we often do it at the expense of driving energy. We get caught in common traps. Let's talk about two of them and I'm going to use stories to illustrate them. So number one is novelty chasing and number two is full-time parenting. Novelty chasing.

11:25After a big exit, Alex reads the book Die with Zero. He decides to dedicate the rest of his life to fun experiences. So he lives on constant highs, non-stop activity, adrenaline and peak experiences. His dopamine spikes with each new experience, he feels energized and alive. But soon, his brain adapts. It recalibrates what counts as exciting, what's worth a dopamine release. He now needs even more excitement for the same payoff. But the fun experiences feel increasingly meaningless. And at the same time, normal life starts to feel flat and lifeless. Alex is bored and reluctant to engage. Eventually his apathy loop starts.

12:24Low engagement leads to low dopamine, which leads to low drive and energy and even less engagement. Alex optimized for time. He squeezed as many adventures into his life as he could. Now he is stuck in the post-wealth apathy. Now full-time parenting. A successful real estate developer called Dan becomes a full-time parent. The choice feels right. It feels responsible, even noble. and it benefits him and his family greatly. But a few months in he feels under-stimulated, lacking progress, low drive and energy. While parenting is not easy, the challenge is simply too narrow for Dan. He gets bored.

13:22His brain is not releasing much dopamine. His apathy loop starts. but then rationalizes his lack of drive he says i'll stay home till the kids go to college but it only deepens his apathy now then optimized for time with family and now he's stuck in post So that was the idea that time is our biggest asset. But the second part of the time and energy framework is the idea that energy in the moment is our wisest guide. And I agree, energy awareness is hugely important. Our brain may be signaling something vital, but we often misinterpret the signal or we assume it benefits us because we are unaware of powerful influences like emotions and cognitive biases, our own physical state or other people and their behavior, ideas and desires.

14:30We only think that we follow energy but in reality we just follow our mood. I may feel drained by a person. I may feel energy negative towards them. But I may simply be experiencing a negative emotion, envy or maybe social anxiety. The problem is not them. The problem may just be me. Yet I walk away from the person or label them. or say I feel energy negative towards a demanding task but nothing is wrong with the task in reality I feel incompetent or maybe potentially judged I walk away instead of learning and growing through that opportunity so when we follow what we call energy we think we are trusting some higher wisdom but it's a fantasy in reality we just choose the easy path and justify it with the energy label but in the process we give away control of our lives we give away our hard-earned freedom and we stay stuck in the post-wealth apathy.

16:02Time and energy framework, unfortunately, often leads to the post-wealth apathy. But there is a better approach. And it's how those post-wealth sages approach life. It breaks the apathy cycle. It reignites our drive and energy and it puts us back in charge. And most importantly, it's grounded in science, not fantasy. I call it the WODY Challenge Framework. Brain chemistry tells us that we feel energized when our brain chooses to engage with a task. When it chooses to engage, we get lots of dopamine and then high drive and energy. On the contrary, when our brain chooses not to engage, our dopamine stays low and sometimes we can have high cortisol, which makes us feel drained and stressed.

17:09So how does the brain decide? Turns out it runs two questions. Is the task worth it and can I handle it? Whether it's worth it depends on the risk versus reward analysis which our brain runs. And the rewards include things like joy, meaning, growth, learning, progress, human connection, wealth, assets, and even curiosity satisfied. And the risks is anything that we may be losing if we engage with a task. And those include things like losing the peace of mind, or losing our comfort, status, money, identity, belonging, respect. When our brain concludes that risks of this project exceed the potential rewards, it decides to conserve energy, not release dopamine, and it orders us to disengage.

18:21Now the second question, can I handle it? In this case, our brain compares the demands to the resources. It wonders, are the demands manageable with the resources we have? The resources in this case include ability and skills, social support and reputation, wealth, health, emotional bandwidth. If it concludes that the demands exceed our resources, it decides that the task is too hard to engage and it does not release dopamine. Say, I get really inspired about a moonshot project, but never take action. Why? Because my brain decided that the task is unmanageable, even though I may keep telling myself that it's not so i'm not driven enough to act or i've tried to make my spouse happy for years but i'm making no progress my brain decided that the task is impossible i'm no longer driven to even try However, if the brain concludes that the demands are less than the available resources, it decides the task is perfectly manageable and it gives us lots of dopamine.

19:52We feel driven and energized by that task. So to summarize, if the rewards exceed the risks and the resources exceed the demands of the task, this is when our brain decides to engage and gives us drive and energy. If the task is both worth it and manageable, we enter the worthy challenge state. we have high dopamine, lots of drive and energy, but we only stay energized for as long as the task continues to feel both weathered and manageable. It's a state we need to manage. The worthy challenge state is the optimal biochemistry for taking action. The worthy challenged state means stable high dopamine plus stable low cortisol exactly what we need for a healthy sustainable drive and energy but here is the most important part the brain only cares about our perception not the objective reality so if we change the perception we can change our drive an energy.

21:16It means we are in charge. The worthy challenge state is a skill we all can master. But how do we create the worthy challenge state? We do it in three steps. One, we upgrade our attitude. Two, we adjust our perception of the challenge level. And three, we take action. Step 1. We upgrade our attitude. The post-wealth brain is biased against effort. But we can flip it. We can choose drive energy and self-realization over some ease and comfort. And the more we make this choice, the faster the brain relearns. Effort leads to reward. We need to stop optimizing for ease, comfort and mood and start optimizing for the worthy challenge state.

22:23Because this is how we break the apathy cycle. This is how we reclaim control over our lives, reignite our drive and energy and finally live our dreams. Because we are all here to feel alive and to realize our unique potential. We're here to build an extraordinary life on our own terms. This is the worthy challenge attitude. So let's summarize. The time and energy attitude leads to low drive, stress, instability, and no control. The wordy challenge attitude, however, leads to high drive, peace, stability, and control. Now step two in building that healthy dopamine loop. we need to adjust the challenge level.

23:25For a task to really energize us, it needs to be neither too easy nor too hard. It must demand our best. Not less, but not more. If a task is worthy but feels too easy or too hard, we can adjust our perception of its difficulty or of our abilities and resources. So, for example, if a task feels too easy, we can do one of two things or both. We increase our perception of the task's difficulty or we reduce our perception of of our own abilities and resources. So we increase the perception of the difficulty of the task by becoming more ambitious about the outcome. For example, about the scale or quality or impact of the outcome of that task.

24:29But to reduce the perception of our own ability, we may need to ask, Am I being too optimistic or overconfident? A common problem among entrepreneurs. Now the easy task feels more challenging, less boring, more interesting. So we get much more dopamine from our brain. Say parenting doesn't feel challenging enough. So we can make it more ambitious. We ask, how do I maximize my kids' chances for a deeply fulfilling life? What do I need to learn and master? What do I need to model?

25:23Now the opposite situation. A task at hand feels too hard. So we can reduce the perception of its difficulty or increase the perception of our ability and resources. We can reduce the task difficulty by learning more about it or by breaking the task into steps. Or we can increase our perception of resources by leveraging wealth, people and tech. or by confronting our own scarcity fears. And here is the most interesting part. We can increase the perception of our own ability. And we do it by intentionally increasing confidence in our proven capabilities. This is one skill that we work on a lot during my in-person events.

26:25because it makes all the difference whether we have a complete clarity about our own proven capabilities. And here is what I found. Post-wealth, our confidence is often weakened by self-doubts. And those self-doubts come from the fact that for years we focused on failures, because we had to. We had to learn from them, we had to address them. There was urgency and pain attached to those failures. As good leaders we also credited others or luck for all the success. As a result we ignored personal wins and post wealth we are not actually sure what those proven capabilities are or we are not aware of many of them and we only know a few.

27:25We can rebuild that confidence by asking, how have I consistently won in the past and what's the proof? Because higher confidence in earned capability makes a task feel easier. I want to make something very clear. Our goal is not to choose the hardest task. It is to challenge ourselves to do our best. Because the more we act at our best, the faster we grow. The more rewarded and satisfied we feel. The faster we relearn that effort leads to reward. the more driven and energized we become. Let's look at a very common scenario. Sam, a successful exited founder, thinks, I built a great business and I would do another one, but I feel energy negative towards the idea, the personal cost was way too high and life is too short and too good to risk it.

28:44If he applies the time and energy framework, his answer is very clear. A big no to the new venture. Now let's see what happens if he applies the worthy challenge framework. Question number one. Is that new venture worth it? And you know what? If Sam has done his work, he is very likely to say, hell yes. because it will allow me to fully self-realize, maximize my impact, feel fulfilled and model that attitude to my kids. Sam will then have to ask himself, do I have what it takes? and Sam may very well say yes because this challenge is aligned with my proven unique capabilities so I'm not worried about competition or losing my drive I know how to get the right people and resources and I know how to support my health and energy levels so yes I can handle this without much stress and burnout.

30:01The time and energy framework is discouraging, so it leads to apathy. The water challenge framework, however, is encouraging, and it leads to healthy, sustainable energy. So we've taken two steps to build our dopamine loop. We've upgraded our attitude. And we've managed the challenge level of a task at hand. Now, step number three. Take action. If adjusting our attitude and difficulty are not enough, we still must kickstart our drive. We act even if we don't feel like it. because the stakes are too high. The post-wealth apathy can destroy our life. So by acting, we force ourselves out of that apathy cycle and into the worthy challenge loop.

31:07Because from the brain chemistry standpoint, when we take decisive action, we get high dopamine. We are getting high drive, and that leads to more action. We start a project trusting we'll get energized by it. And you know what? We will. But to stay driven, we still need to be sure our brain sees the task as worthy and challenging enough. The Worthy Challenge framework is powerful. It lets us take control of our drive and energy, our health and our freedom. We can build an extraordinary life on our own terms.

32:04Now let me quickly summarize. So the post-wealth brain is biased towards ease and comfort, leading to the post-wealth apathy, a dangerous, unhealthy, unfulfilling state. To break out, we must build a healthy dopamine loop. We do it in three steps. We adopt the worthy challenge attitude. We adjust our perception of the challenge level of a task at hand and we act despite our mood. This loop leads to sustainable drive and energy and eventually to the feeling of self-realization. It builds a life of compounding fulfillment. All right, guys. Anyone has any questions? I have a question, Anastasia. Hi, Jeff.

33:02Good to see you. Great to see you. Thank you for this. This is wonderful. I was wondering if you could discuss the merits of finding one big new challenge versus several small things that challenge us or we enjoy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've been thinking about it a lot. And obviously, different things work differently for different people at different stages. But if we think about a stage when we have already recovered, when, you know, we don't feel burnt out again. and I think Jeff, for you personally, that probably applies by now. I am a huge believer in choosing one thing over many things.

33:45And I will do another call on how to find a mission and we'll talk about how different people choose a mission in a way that really energizes them and creates a lot of drive. And basically what I found is that when we have one mission, we can channel all of that energy and we really feel pulled and we create much bigger impact. And when we create much bigger impact and it also, the activity itself feels deeply rewarding. Like we spend a lot of time in the flow state, which is a deeply rewarding state. What happens is that our brain starts to connect that activity regularly with reward, making it easier and easier.

34:36Because if you look at some of these people who are doing incredibly hard things, but they're not burnt out, this is exactly the secret. Over time, they train their reward system to energize them and make it feel easier and easier. And also, obviously, competence grows. If we focus on one thing, we become more and more competent. Competence means not only ease, but it also means confidence. Confidence means we take on even more interesting, even more complex challenges. And finally, when we choose one thing over many, we also create a competitive edge, and that's very important. Because if we become so competent over time in this particular thing, we have less stress about competition.

35:29and if we have less stress, once again, our life is easier and the whole activity is much more rewarding because what we want, we don't want another startup that burns us out, right? We want to really intelligently and wisely set ourselves up for a mission which doesn't burn us out but feels rewarding every single day. There will still be problems, but they will seem smaller and smaller in comparison to the reward we're getting from our work. Hi, Anastasia. How are you? You're looking well in Miami. Hi, hi. Good to see you. Good to see you, Samir. I had a question. I am on a board of advisors to a family who is managing their wealth.

36:14And I'm supposed to take a nominal salary. I don't even take that. But I get a lot of joy and satisfaction out of helping them run their money. However, when we've tried to add people to the board who are like at our stage, who had an exit and who are managing their money, many people say, you know, there's no reward, no monetary reward in this. So quite a lot of people in our pool of people, they have immense amount of talent, immense amount of knowledge. And I've always felt that as long as you're ready to share your knowledge for free, there will always be takers. but a lot of us refuse to share that knowledge for free or for a reward that's not big enough.

36:55How do you change that attitude? Because you don't need the money, but still you don't want to share. So I sometimes don't get it. Are you talking about change in attitude of other people or ourselves? Yeah, sometimes change. I think I've changed my attitude. So we change our attitude is easier to change. But it's only if we successfully change ours, can we hope to convince someone to change theirs? Of course. I think that people need to experience this, even if they don't want to. It's this step three we talked about. Sometimes we need to do something anyway, because we feel maybe there is a chance that it will make us feel energized, and then it does.

37:32And then we start building this reward system, this loop that it feels energized. So, Samit, if you want to, for these people to feel the way you feel, maybe you can find a way to encourage them to try teaching and see how they feel about it. Yeah, maybe just invite them for one session. That's a great idea. Thank you. Anastasia, I also have a question. In one of your earlier podcasts, you actually talked about the founders starting their second or third business quickly after the exit event. And that that was not the right idea. I know that you drew some distinction by saying that they should maybe take a year or two to think first.

38:22But is that generally a good idea? Has your perception of that type of activity as the next challenge shifted? Or is there some nuance to it? All right. So first of all, I found that there is a small category of people for whom like never taking a break between businesses. is a good idea. And these are very young founders without families. Like if you sold a business at 27 and you're single and you are ready to go for the next one, there is literally no reason not to do it. And because you're still learning and you're probably not ready for the kind of deep analysis that some people need to do later in life before they are ready for the next business.

39:04And also maybe you're not burnt out enough. But except for that, so far what I've seen is that everyone else really benefits from a break. But what's important is that it's a break and not retirement. Because if we're talking about retirement, then suddenly we are exactly in this apathy situation. So if you look at the statistics of how many people actually start new businesses after they sell or when they start new businesses, it looks quite shocking. Because for the first two years after we have a successful exit, the likelihood, the probability of a person starting a new business stays very stable.

39:48After two years, it starts going down, and after three, the probability basically collapses. And I think the reason for that is we adapt to that comfort, and it becomes so hard for us to break out. And for me, more often than not, I now come across people who are in that situation rather than in the situation when they rushed to create a new business too early. But to answer your question, yes, I still think taking a break is extremely important, especially if you know what you're doing, because you can come to this state of contentment and peace and nourished body and soul, and then you're just naturally ready to do something else that's amazing and your own.

40:38Thank you.