Calum Scott | From HR to Wembley Arena | Extraordinary Life Stories

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0:40Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college PC. If you look at the peak of a mountain going, that's where I need to get, it's going to feel impossible. But if you start with one foot in front of the other, you look back and you're one step ahead of where you were. So tell me, who is Callum Scott?

1:12I'm Callum Scott. I'm 37. I'm from home. I am a singer-songwriter. I'm an emotional bloke that likes to make people cry. Okay, I'm not doing this to be that guy. No, I've asked you. But yes, we have three songs over a billion each on Spotify. Billion views on a song called You Are The Reason on YouTube Ridiculous platinum in countries all over the world One of my proudest things is singing at the King's Coronation I'm curious to kind of touch on nerves I'd go back to my first show which was at the Tabernacle in Notting Hill Which is a couple hundred people And I remember then the nerves was to a point where I felt sick The reason I'm sitting here today with a life story Is because I've gone through rejection to get to success And I see you as a role model, someone that's come through, got the scars, talked openly about the fact that identity has been a key thing to struggle with but being vulnerable with it.

2:06I've written about it on my second album where I was close to a suicide attempt. To be called a role model after all of that is quite emotional.

2:27Callum, welcome. Thanks for having me, man. Looking forward to this. Yeah, it's been a little while in the diary, hasn't it? Yeah, well, we had to move it. And it was because of your voice, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, it was on tour. Well, still on tour. I think I've been touring for the last four years, on and off. But I was on tour and it's taken me my third world tour to just understand my limits. and I suppose there'd have been a time, especially with my touring on the last two cycles where you are too worried about disappointing and that's still a massive thing for me, especially fans more than anything else having had to cancel a few shows when we got back into touring after COVID I was heartbroken and I remember being with the script in America in Philadelphia and was at the Fillmore, beautiful venue.

3:24And I was just, my voice was just not there. I just had not built the stamina up enough. And I was on stage and was trying to sound check and my belt register wasn't there. And I don't sing anything in any other way. I belt everything. Everything's emotional and loud. I don't sing anything quietly, essentially. And I remember being stood on stage and that realisation of I have to cancel the show. First time I've ever done it and it was heartbreaking i sobbed i was crying my eyes i sent a video message to danny o'donoghue the lead singer of the script who we were supporting and i was like i'm so sorry i've never done this and he was like you do not need to apologize to me and i think that's been something that stuck with me where i had to make that call as difficult as it was and now i find myself when i'm in a position where i know that if i take too much more on it's going to be gone i preempt it And I think that's half of being the professional is going, I know that this is my limit.

4:26I know that if I sing anymore or do any more meet and greets or do any more talking, I'm going to wear my voice out. And the professional is being able to go, I have to take this out of my diary. So tell me, who is Callum Scott? It feels like taking me out with Paddy McGuinness. I'm Callum Scott. I'm 37 from home. I think, taking that as a springboard, I'm called Cam Scott, 37, whole born and bred. I'm a singer and songwriter. I'm an emotional bloke that likes to make people cry. And I'm very lucky that I have been able to soundtrack some of the most important people's, most important memories in people's lives with just something that I love to do.

5:14I'm inherently massively grateful for every day that I get to do this job. And I want to use my job for good. I know that sounds like a bit of a marble superhero, but I want to use my voice and my platform and my music to do good in the world. Like, you know, in sports, for example, you have coaches and you have people there that are helping you navigate through, you know, the same sort of things that we go through with the training, the rest, your nutrition, every aspect of what it means to perform. And then you'll also have a coach that goes, I think if you run too much more on that leg, you're going to do your ACL in.

5:54Whereas with us, you're on the road and you've got your band there, but nobody is responsible for you except you. And so if I know that if I go into my meet and greets and I'm like, hey, with everybody 40 times over, then the show, it's just going to wear me out. So there's a level of it where you have to kind of take accountability. And so it just means that I can't, I've got to measure where my limits are. And that's sometimes singing smart rather than singing emotionally. Sometimes you've got to be like, okay, well, I can't hold that note that long. Or I can't sing with all that grit and all that stuff in your voice that makes it sound like a rock star.

6:33I can't do that on every song. You've got to taper and measure. And that's like you said, lived experience. Yeah, it's peaks and troughs, isn't it? So it makes you know more about that, actually, because clearly, and I've seen you perform at Peter Jones' 20-year celebration. And, you know, you got everybody up, and, you know, the vibe in that room was amazing. You're peaking then. What do you do after a show like that?

6:58There's two sides of it for me. There's either you get involved, you have your wine, you start talking to people on the dance floor. John Terry was my saviour that night. He was the first on the dance floor and everybody followed suit, so. Didn't take long to get everyone up there. I got a shout out John Terry on that one. But yeah, like just mingling around, drinking the wine, talking with people. It keeps that high elevated and then it just sort of, you know, peters down in the same way that it would for anybody on night out. Or you have to do the opposite, which is you go sensible and you sort of go, all right, that's me.

7:32I'm going to go. I'm going to leave. And you go back and you maybe have a tea and maybe watch a bit of Netflix and you bring yourself down like that. And I think for me, I remember really early in my career, like 2017, when Dance On My Own, my version of Dance On My Own was really going off. And I was invited to Capital's Jingle Bell Ball. And I remember because it was so early in my career, the O2 was a massive, massive thing in my mind. I was like, there's a lot of people here. This is a huge performance. so there was a lot of emotional energy and adrenaline and I sang the song and obviously I go on sing a three and a half minute song to 10 plus 10 ,000 plus people and then because I had to be in Sweden or something the next day I had to go straight from there in a car to the hotel and I was in bed within 40 minutes now that's not how you come down that's how you end up with like paranoia with night sweats with overthinking no sleep that that was awful because you you cannot possibly come from that level of adrenaline to being laid in bed in 40 minutes it's just it's not healthy no did you actually manage to sleep because the dopamine hit no so you're doing you're doing the right thing out of principle because you know you want to bank some sleep but you're wired right yeah you got it you got to find the right way to come down i mean even if i of I should have maybe FaceTime my mum and just had a conversation with her and you then you get into a normal conversation she's probably going to ask what what day the bins go out or whatever and then you get drawn into like a normal and then you you're just slows your heart your rhythm comes back yeah whereas when you've been buzzing and you're flying around the place and you're on stage and you're in front of all these people and you're trying to play up to expectation then you're also trying to surpass expectation and you've got all these things going through your mind And simultaneously, whilst you're trying to concentrate on delivering the song in the best way you can, that's too much adrenaline and energy to come just straight off of.

9:36So again, lived experience. You've had to learn it. Yeah, you have. And it's the same for any performer, any public speak, any time that you have to psych yourself up, there's also the come down as well, which you have to ride those. When people say ride in the highs and lows, it literally is that. Yeah. the dopamine hit from playing to 10 000 people in the o2 must be unbelievable and the build up to that and i'm just i'm curious to kind of touch on nerves because you do what you love yeah so obvious you like your face lit up then when you're so and and you're building up to that i'm just interested in that whole managing the time before and after where there's a lot of time when you're not performing and not getting a dopamine hit yeah what's that like because it's very clear that to get to that point and be performing you're in your element but are you actually how do you manage that sort of downtime and then when it gets closer to it the nerves come in do you turn them into positives yeah yeah uh i guess i guess to break down the question on the downtime i i watched a an interview with adele who is like my god right love her to bits she her work ethic her music her voice the way she handles herself i think is just textbook what what an artist should be like in my opinion so i i looked to her and i saw this interview where she said i've got a foot firmly in the door of celebrity fame going to the parties you know schmoozing and being around all those people you know doing the red carpets having this glamour and this and all of the things that come with the industry and they said i've got a foot firmly in the door of being a mum being a partner there being a daughter wanting to go get some groceries in my pajamas and she was like and so I like to jump in and out of that and I'm exactly the same because I'm a lad from Hull you know I was 26 when I got into this professionally so I'd lived a life you know I worked in a human resources office after school after after I left school I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life and I found myself in a in a very normal job paying the bills looking forward to that one holiday yeah my first car was over 400 like i've lived a life sure and so getting into this at a later stage i don't know maybe maybe maybe made me more grounded or appreciate it great great great fullness and appreciation for what i do but it means that the downtime is really really just me being callum and i have my bulldog and i have to pick up his poo and take him for a walk and do my own laundry and then go and visit my sister and my mum.

12:15And I have a very, very normal life. And I guess because things haven't been over crazy for me in terms of fame and stuff like that, I can, I don't go to Asda in my PJs, but I can go to Asda. And I'm, you know, I go and do my groceries and I'm not bothered in the same way that Adele would be. You know, so the downtime really does feel like just Callum from Hull. and then I guess to come to the second part of your question where it's then then there's those nerves pick up the to put it in some quite detail that you probably don't need to know before every show I have to be on the toilet right because my nerves chain my stomach so bad that it's something that I call it a pre-stage poo essentially and that's what I've got to go and do I've got to go and that's how I deal with my nerves it's it's a thing that happens to me biologically that I can't even help.

13:10It's nerves of wanting to do the best, wanting to give the best performance. Maybe the awareness of especially being on tour, the fact that there are a room full of, in some places, you know, a thousand, two thousand, but up to ten thousand that I've been doing on this tour as well. Individual people have purposefully gone online and bought a ticket for your show, which means then that I have to make every single penny worth it. If you've ever blasted synth beats from your boom box or burn CDs for your besties, this one's for you. As people get older, much like their music tastes, their health needs change.

13:48AG1 is the simple daily health drink designed to deliver over 75 essential daily nutrients and pre and probiotics to support energy, digestion and mood. So you can make the most out of every decade and dance break. Learn more at drinkag1.com. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel, maybe. Or a white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. You feel a responsibility for that. So I put a massive responsibility on myself, which I enjoy, but the responsibility comes with those nerves and it happens every single show.

14:30Every performance, every... There's a moment where I have to be away from everybody and I have to have myself in the game. I can't just be distracted by too much energy. You know, my band are all like firing off jokes and laughing and making those noises. I have to be away for a little bit. Then I have my pre-stage pill. Then I come back and then I have to be amongst them because I have to feel like I'm able to ramp up from having that quiet time to prepare. So the nerves are every single time. It's great you've said that because I've seen you perform and anyone can watch on YouTube where you're performing to thousands of people and you just churn it out beautifully.

15:08To know what's gone on before is important. Even from, obviously, I deal with nerves better. I wouldn't say I don't have them. I'm just more in control of them over time. We're playing Wembley Arena, which is my biggest London headline show. And having done tons of promo around it, I'd go back to my first show, which was at the Tabernacle in Notting Hill, which is a couple of hundred people. And I remember then the nerves was to a point where I felt sick. Like I was, my head was like spinning. I felt ill. I was like, I don't know if I want to do this. Whereas obviously when I go on to Wembley Arena, of course I'll still be nervous, but I'll just be so much more excited than I am nervous.

15:54Yes. So I think that's the only difference between the two is that I've just learned to control those nerves, but I'm so glad that I still have them. Which shows you care. It shows that I want to do the best. Yes. And I'd rather have that. And I'd rather have... The second I go on stage going, I'm not bothered. No. It's the day that I've fallen out of love with it. No, I think sharing that, anyone aspirationally wanting to perform because I've got two teenage daughters. Right. So the whole relationship with social media now is people are consuming content. Yes. But so many of them will not put themselves out there as actually putting content out of themselves.

16:31They'll watch other people's. Yeah. And the fear of judgment, the fear of, yeah. And now you have a talent that you then, ultimately, Britain's got talent and you got up there and you performed. And kind of the rest is history, if you like. So many people wouldn't make it to that point. And that's becoming more and more prevalent that I see. What advice would you give to someone that feels they've got a talent, is inspired by you, wants to do it, but is shackled by, you know, exterior kind of validation of fear. Yes. it's a really good question. I think when I started in music, social media, I had social media, but it wasn't as prevalent as it is now.

17:16I mean, you know, we all know that. Social media has become such a massive part of people's lives, whether they like it or not. You know, some people use social media, some people are addicted to social media. And what I would say is that because content is being chained out so often, and because now like you said if you're watching tiktok you're either somebody who creates or somebody watches and i reckon that that percentage is quite in favor of the people who watch right so that you've got people that are watching other people create content so then there's a comparison and there's like a i could never do that i think my biggest thing if if you're aspiring to to create content whether that's with a talent whether it's with personality whether it's you know anything in the arts anything sport if you're wanting to create content what I would say is when you watch somebody's video that's taken them you don't see all the the history that it took to get that video I think that's really important because my nephew for example eight years old he's called Oliver is massive into trick shots at the minute watches all the lads that that throw the ping pong balls that hit the saucepans and it goes in the in the thing at the end and he's like wow and I'm like that will have taken hundreds and hundreds of attempts and he's like well they did it and I said they're not showing the other bits absolutely and I said it's really important that you know that they will have sat there for hours and hours and hours to a point where they would have wanted to give up and maybe did and came back to it the next day and I said when people say practice makes perfect that's what it's about you don't see all of that up until that one video where you go wow they've nailed that you haven't seen the thousands of attempts they've made to get to that video and i think that's super super important um it's the hard work that goes behind it a hundred showreel can be the social media you can you can relate that to business you can relate it so much it's great you brought that up yes you know the guy that's on the front page of the papers because he's sold a business for a hundred million well my god you know how hard he's worked to get to that point exactly that entire journey and the thing is is the thing that i found really interesting is that Oliver was, as soon as I told him that, it put him off.

19:25And it concerned me because I was thinking, I want that to drive him. I want him to be like, I want to be able to get to that point as well. But I think it's because people are consuming so much and so quickly that now it's like, unless I can get it now, unless I can have instant gratification, I don't want to do it. You're so right to end up. And I think the kind of classic Instagram post with someone putting a Dubai marina behind them and a Lamborghini and so on, look at me, I've done so well. And then someone doesn't want to put the effort in to get to that, they'll stop. I mean, you're a great example of growth.

20:00And what I mean by that is the journey you've been on, the pain you've endured, the meandering, if you like, journey to get to where you are, you've taken loads of knocks along the way. You've been a nervous wreck to then be in a position where your talent gets recognized and now you're performing at Wembley yeah the growth's where the satisfaction the fulfillment comes from you're a product of the really difficult times yeah that you've been through yeah how do you bottle that and almost tell your nephew that it wasn't easy for me but I'm a better person for it yeah I always say uh one of my best friends Jess she pulled me aside one day and she was like happiness is in the journey it's not the destination and I think it's so true of course it would be amazing to have a Grammy or a Brit but being nominated and not having it for me has been better because it's made me more driven because I'm like one day I will have that and and it's in the journey that you become the person that you know the reason I'm sitting here today with with a life story is because I've gone through rejection to get to success.

21:12I think if it was just empty success, I wouldn't be sitting here 10 years later after my Britain's Got Talent audition. The scars are part of your story. A hundred percent. And I think that's what we draw on as songwriters. The only reason we're able to write songs is because we've been through so much. If you've kind of had quite a sheltered life and you haven't really done anything with it, then you're not going to have anything to say. No. Which means your songs won't resonate with people. because you're writing soundtracks to countless people's lives in different ways. Do you get a lot of feedback on that?

21:44All the time. It's my favourite thing. I bet it is. It's my favourite thing. We've been doing a lot of meet and greets across America. And the stories that people share, some of it's really, really quite profound. There's a lot of people, I have a song called Rise. And it was the song that kind of helped me out of that lull of COVID. so we you know I was about to finish my second album called Bridges and then I was in America just being set up for three weeks of writing and Trump was like we're going to close the borders so I immediately got out because I thought Airbnb is going to cost me a fortune because I don't know how long I'm going to be here so I got out got home and then there was lockdown and so it was then I was I live on my own so I was by myself I'm not really that great at engineering my own sessions or writing my own songs solely by myself so I fell out of love with it I was like I can't I can't do it I don't have anyone to show me and and I'm by myself so I don't have that motivation um and so I'd kind of you know I was sitting in my pants drinking wine playing call of duty day after day after day and there come a point where I was like I can't I can't do this anymore and I got onto my one of my pals who I work with a lot John Maguire and he was like well there's this song that's been sent to us the bare bones of the song and it was called Rise and it was about kind of you know this the lyrics are I've got my best suit on I'm ready I've got my sleeves rolled up and I'll be on my way like it's about conquering the day however that looks for you and that really that inspired me and I wanted to write and I wanted to record it and I learned how to engineer myself and we got the song recorded and it really helped me out of that that was my story of it but then you put that song out there and you let it live and have its own journey and people respond to it in different ways i had a lot of people in america coming up with quite a few people saying uh rise helped me beat cancer you know i've been on this cancer journey you know i've been sat there having chemo and i have rise on and it motivates me it makes me feel like you I'm going to conquer this and I'm going to put my best suit on.

23:57And that's really profound. Yeah. You know, that's the kind of stuff I say to my shows all the time, but that is the highest accolade I could ever ask for. Give me a Grammy and give me somebody saying you've helped change my life or saved my life. I'm going to take the fan every day. I think it's to have that effect on people, to be sat in my position now, knowing that 12 years ago when I was in a working men's club singing live for the very first time so I sang a Paolo Nantini song called Last Request there's about 12 people in the pub and that first round of applause I ever got from singing live felt like like just felt like purpose but 12 years later to be having an effect on people's lives was with my own writing that helps people through, that must be one of the worst things to have to go through.

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25:31We're gonna take this city back. Over-Medicated. In an all-new season now streaming only on Disney+. They're hunting us. It's time we started hunting them. I can work with them. This should be tons of fun. Marvel Television's Daredevil, Born Again, now streaming only on Disney+. I have no words. It's hard for me to think that that's the same life, you know? But it is. It's beautiful. And like you said, to your point, it's through that lived experience. It wasn't, you know, for me, it wasn't straight from Britain's Got Talent into a record deal. It was Britain's Got Talent, they made the TV show, and so they all went away.

26:11and I'm sat there going, hey, could anybody help me get in touch with nothing? And I genuinely went back up to Hull crying, going, I don't want to go back to human resources. It was a great job at the time, but I was like, you know, I want to, I've had a taste of that. You just had a glimpse of what your life can be. But then you went after it. You kept making that happen. And it was a lot of closed doors. That's my biggest advice. Anytime anybody says to me, what advice would you give a musician or an aspiring musician? I said, get comfortable with rejection. just music is so subjective and not everybody's gonna love it and I'm a massive people pleaser I hate disappointing people I hate upsetting people but if I do if I put a song out and I get a thousand comments saying wow this is amazing I get one guy going oh this is crap that's the guy I listen to focus on it and it's yeah I have to I've gotten comfortable with that now i'll still read it and still it'll still touch me in a way where it's like oh god that's i wish i wish i could just i wish i didn't get that but then in some ways it's like you deal with that rejection it makes you stronger makes you thicker skinned it makes you feel like okay well the next comment i see is not going to hurt as deep you know when you go for that opportunity and the door slams in your face you just knock on the next door keep going a hundred percent yeah a hundred There's a contentment about you without any arrogance, any ego coming through.

27:36There's a public humility about you with all the success that you've had. But that identity that you've gone through and the sort of a crisis of that, you talked about your sexuality, the pivoting, going on Britain's Got Talent and then the recognition of talent, then it almost disappeared to nothing and then fighting for it. Where I'm going with it is there are so many young lads in particular now that are struggling with identity. there's quite a lot of work that's been done by the Centre for Social Justice. They call it the Lost Boys Report. And the manosphere is kind of the manifestation of that, if you like, where fatherless, particularly lads, are turning to the algorithm, turning to negative influences.

28:16And I see you as a role model, someone that's come through, got the scars, talked openly about the fact that identity has been a key thing to struggle with, but being vulnerable with it and vulnerability being your strength. What advice would you give to those young lads that are really struggling with their identity now? I mean, I think the first thing I want to do is thank you for saying that because it hits quite an emotional chord for me to be called a role model because when I was younger, my dad left when I was two and he went over to Canada and he's had his own life. Unfortunately, my dad's got narcissistic traits, so there's not a lot I can do to be in his life that feels fair.

28:57And so I've had to kind of say goodbye to that relationship. Only just quite recently I had to say goodbye to that. But growing up, I didn't really have a father figure. And the one that I had was not the best. It was a children should be seen, not heard kind of a vibe. So there was a many, many years where I sank into a depression and a sadness and a loneliness, I think paired with the fact that I was going through an issue with my sexual identity as well, which was something that I hadn't given a lot of thought to, but I was kind of pressured into thinking about it and it became a bigger thing for me.

29:36So I think coupled together, it put me in a really dark place. I mean, I've written about on my second album where I was close to a suicide attempt. and I think to be called a role model after all of that is it's quite emotional so I've got to thank you for that firstly it's heartfelt and I did know your backstory about your father and when I mentioned the fatherless these are families that you know kids that haven't got a father that has left and so on so I totally understood that that framed yeah I really appreciate it it's a The young lad in me is really grateful for hearing that. I think it's tough, isn't it?

30:20I think when you... I've come from that broken family and it has caused a lot of issues, for my mental health specifically, and I've had a lot of therapy. I still use a mentor now, still use a life coach kind of thing, but I went through a ton of counselling, especially when I was younger, when I was going through the darkest parts of my life. But it's so easy in those vulnerable moments when you are from a broken family or something's going on. It's so easy to turn to a vice, whether that's, you know, people that accept you for better or for worse. You know, sometimes you get involved in some some some lads get involved with the wrong crowd.

31:03And that might be because they've gone through some stuff. It might be through alcohol. It might be through drugs. it might be there's there's you know trying to fill a void that essentially can't be filled it requires to be repaired and that's time and it's talking and it's unfortunately revisiting hard times and getting through it you know I think the biggest thing for me was kind of accepting that yeah I went through a period when I was when I was at my lowest where I'd gone through uh I'd created my own body dysmorphia and I'd started to get really upset about the way that I looked and I thought that was because of my issues with my sexuality and bottling everything up over the years which probably had a part to play but it was when I started to talk about my dad leaving and and how that affected me you know not feeling enough not feeling wanted not feeling like you know I was worth staying around for those body dysmorphia issues started to disappear a little bit i wouldn't have got through i wouldn't have even been able to link that my body dysmorphia was a was a result of of my issues that i'd had from my dad leaving if i hadn't revisited those hard moments and i think for me therapy was my savior and so i i what i want to do is acknowledge that you know some of these like you said some of these guys uh people of all walks of life but when we were talking about guys there, have gone through stuff that's not their fault.

32:36And I think it's not what you've been through, it's how you deal with it. And, you know, we talked a little bit off camera there about the Manosphere and the documentary Lutheru, you know, had put on TV. And it's like, with these guys, like you can see that there's some sense in what they're trying to say and they're trying to convey something and you go, you're almost there and they'll say something else and then you're like, oh, you almost have to disregard what they're saying because it's sandwiched in this. Tarnishes the whole thing. It does. It does. Because, you know, as somebody who's, you know, openly gay now and comfortable and happy with who I am, you know, to hear somebody say, like, I discern my son if he was gay, it hurts because I don't have control about who I fall in love with and nor would I ever impose that on a child I'd have as long as that child is healthy.

33:31then for me that's all that's important. And I think to a lot of these people it would probably be the same. If they had their baby in their hands, they wouldn't be thinking, well, if this kid's gay when they're older. I don't think that goes through people's minds. So then it just becomes nonsensical to say it. And then you just go, I really wanted the point that you made earlier to make sense, but you know what I mean? So I think some people are misunderstood. some people you know when you sort of shine a light you know I watched an amazing film last night called Good Boy with Stephen Graham and it's about this young lad who's on TikTok and he's stealing cars and smashing stuff up and bullying people and without spoiling the film Stephen Graham kind of captures this guy and tries to rehabilitate him not in the best way I would say um but you see that at one point the boy is watching a tv where they're showing everything that he's done and at first he finds it really funny and then the two you know Stephen Graham and his partner in the film are kind of watching his reaction and then I think it holds a mirror to him and he's is knowing how he's being judged for the things he's doing and suddenly has this epiphany and sometimes I just think maybe that's what people need is just to to go but look at how you're affecting other people look at when you say something like that how it how it affects somebody else you know for for something that they can't control just as much as they might have gone through something that wasn't their fault and so that perpetual sadness just spirals it's empathy isn't it yeah you have empathy in spades it's why we get on that whole you know how would that make me feel i wouldn't do that if that upset you and then why are you doing it to me and i think that's definitely missing yeah in in a key part of the conversation that's uh being put that online.

35:23I feel like there's a problem with identity because we need more positive role models and I think when you're talking about Gareth Southgate and the good that he's trying to do and things that he's trying to achieve by talking about this crisis that we have with young lads and the identity and things like that. If young lads are going through and obviously everybody goes through things we're not talking about just young lads in particular but to your to the point we're talking about if you're a young lad that is going through some stuff and you don't know where to turn and you have a bloke that's telling you what to do in a way that feels believable or feels like that's what i should be doing or if you look at your mates and they believe what he's doing you are going to walk into the arms of the person that wants to put them around you you know if you're if you if you're sort of spouting stuff and filling people's heads but you provide comfort in in in what you're saying to to these young lads it's it's a scary place because then people are following something that they might not even truly understand they just feel accepted and feel seen and they don't feel accepted somewhere else they're lost 100 so they're going to come in right they're going to they're going to go to the the next person who's got their arms open for them and i think that's a good point that's where it's scary you know i imagine with you know gangs maybe is to do with somebody who doesn't you know feel part of something and and and that's maybe easy easy ways for people to get caught up in the wrong thing um similarly you know if you're inspired and you've got a sports team that want you to bring you on you know there's it's the same thing it's just that there's there seems to be not a lot of positive role models.

37:14I think that's why I try and be so vulnerable and so open about it. I think there'd have been a time where the whole lad in me, especially the lad that hadn't been, hadn't accepted their sexuality yet, would have gone, don't be soft. Yeah, don't be soft. Yeah, don't be soft. Don't show people that you're soft. Get over it. Head up high. You're a man. All that stuff to me now feels so ridiculous. I think the most masculine thing you can do is show vulnerability. because I'm still, I'm a strong person, but I'm strong because I can admit when I'm not. And I think that for me feels like a superpower.

37:48And so what Gareth's doing, you know, reminding people that we need more of those positive role models that are out there, being able to show weakness, being able to show vulnerability, because that for me is what would build strength. Totally. I'm here to amplify that. You articulate that beautifully. The other thing was just stats and numbers. I don't know if you want to run me through. I mean, have I seen some pretty serious download numbers? You've seen... What's the current... You've seen some crazy numbers. Because I look at it myself and I'm like, that is terrifying. Because they're massive, right?