First Dates star CiCi Coleman on Dating, Boundaries, and Becoming Your Highest Self

0:00Because the minute you start sharing your own opinions, people don't like it because they put you in a box. I like CiCi being fluffy and monotone and not actually speaking her mind and now I'm actually, yeah, like, you know, talking about like spitting the bill and things like this. Wow, my inbox just goes nuts. Tell me, who is CiCi Coleman? I am a dating coach. I'm a TV personality, 20 years of my own dating experiences and 12 years on first days. God, my interest is so piqued. I think you just used a really key word which is boundaries it's creating the boundary and then being okay with people leaving and that's also something I found incredibly hard I hate it when people leave I want to ask you a story that stands out from your own dating experience and I decided at that point he's not for me but he seems nice so let's give him some time we're on the dance floor and we're dancing and there's a live band and I was just holding my drink and seeing I was drunk but I just saw this sort of vision go past my face and it was like a blur like oh what's that and then I looked down on the floor and he's on the floor so we then have this snog on the dance floor and then he got a erection whilst he was snogging so yeah it was that and that was the end of the day that was for me that was a roller coaster of one hell of a story

1:26Looking forward to this? Same. Tell me, who is Cece Coleman? First thing, I want to tell you that I hate this question. And I really like, it kicked in my imposter syndrome, went, whoa. But... It should be the easiest question, right? But I totally get to know. I feel cruel asking it, but I want to know. Okay. So I would say on paper, I am a dating coach. I am a online fitness coach. I'm a TV personality and I do public speaking. away from that who I really am is someone I guess what brings that together is someone who is obsessed with people human behavior understanding why people do the things they do what is underneath the words of what they do like what is their body saying and especially I would take that into the dating space so why do people act a certain way what does that really mean about them and what I have understood from the last 20 years of my own dating experiences and 12 years on first days is that you can pick up these signals from people without even having to ask a question and I help women understand that so that they can then date from a space of confidence rather than this fear which is what we all tend to do.

2:42My interest is so piqued it's amazing I mean I'm fascinated by people and interested in people as well it's pretty much the glue behind anything I've done in business friendships so this is going to be fascinating where did that obsession if you like come from what was the sort of early stimulus if you like to be interested in all of that yeah I think it came from so I had a parent who so I lost a parent when I was 14 my mum and I think not understanding that and not knowing how to spot the behaviors of her because she was declining with her mental health and I just didn't understand it so I think that forced me into to just wanting to know everything so that that wouldn't happen again.

3:23And then dating, toxic relationships, same thing. You know, how did I get cheated on? I can't understand why that happened. So... Didn't see the signs. Exactly. So it's quite a lot of why there about your own lived experience and not knowing why something's happened. And then I guess curiosity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's literally that curiosity. I'm just curious. I just love understanding and then knowing and then applying. Yeah. And that journey, which you go from not knowing, not understanding, to then not just putting your own experience in, but having so many conversations. You've been in this environment so many times where you're the one asking the questions.

3:56What would be almost the overarching lessons, if you'd like, you'd learned that now you can flip back on that, I guess you'd call it body language. Yeah. So it's not necessarily what someone's saying, it's how they're making you feel. It is. It's what does, you know, if someone's touching their hair, what does that mean? Are they nervous or are they excited? And I also studied acting and what they do, one of the classes is they get you to go to a cafe and just people watch. You sit there with a coffee and you just watch people all day long doing nothing and then you apply it to your acting classes.

4:29So I think from understanding that and then again with the dating, it's just, it's made me really aware that not everyone is able to communicate as well as we'd like to. So if you can read their body language, sometimes maybe they don't mean to be mean, maybe they actually do mean to be mean, and you can kind of see it in their body and what they're doing and how they're positioning themselves. Are they cross-legged? Are they legs apart? There's a lot that I've learned. So this really interesting because the acting elements, I've never had an acting class in my life, but we talked about the ADHD side of things.

5:06the neurodivergent piece. And so having been recently diagnosed and you kind of say, well, I'm pretty sure I've got it. Flipping that back to a young version of me, young version of you, there's a masking element to how I behaved before that is in any one way acting. But I don't even know I'm doing it. I'm doing it because I am nervous about something. I am actually intimidated going on a date. I'm really worried about what she's going to think of me. I'm worried about saying the wrong thing. Have you almost got to a point where you could almost recognize behavior for an ulterior agenda that perhaps is not genuine or someone that's actually fidgeting or genuinely nervous and called it out for exactly what it is?

5:44That's a really good question. I wouldn't say I'm as advanced as that. It's a harsh question, but you know what I mean? Because you're probably, you're self-awareness now. It's probably really quite astute. It is. And sometimes that goes against me, especially in dating, because I'm out there dating. And you are, you're trying not to pick up on absolutely everything because you want to give someone the benefit, the doubt. You also want to allow someone to be nervous. You want someone to walk into a room and go, oh my God, I'm having a mare. I'm really nervous about this date. And you want to allow that experience.

6:12But at the same time, it's a really hard balance because then I go into coaching mode and then I think, oh, I can't coach because now I'm mothering. I don't want a mother because I want a man. And it's like, and this is where the ADHD comes in. I was going to say your brain is a thousand miles an hour. It is like pinging constantly. So I really have to, what I've learned is to allow people to just be them and not fill in the blanks. A very good friend of mine said that to me because he said, every relationship you get in, you fill in the blanks for these guys and you're like, oh, it's probably because this happened when he was four.

6:43And he's like, let him figure that out. Let him tell you. Let him show you who he is through his actions and his behaviours. Stop telling the story for him. And when I did that, my dating changed because I was dating people that just, I accepted them for who they were. That's a lovely character trait in terms of being that way, but that taps into people pleasing, which can be exhausting for you, where you're perhaps then with people that, you know, you're having to overcompensate for what's not necessarily working for you. And I wonder what advice you give to someone that hears that and thinks, oh, I do that, because you're fighting all the time probably, but you're on the other end of it, but you recognize it now and you kind of have your boundaries in place for that.

7:26What advice do you give to someone watching, listening, thinking, oh God, I do that. I need to stop that. I think you just used a really key word, which is boundaries. So one of the subjects we discuss in my workshops is the whole, it's about an hour's worth of boundaries. How do you instill a boundary and how do you stick to it and how do you make it comfortable for you? Because I didn't even know what the word boundary meant probably up until about five years ago. I just thought, oh, I'm just going around life doing my thing. I didn't understand that I could put something in place, feels a bit uncomfortable, but actually it raises who you are, raises your self-worth, and then people either meet you at that level or they drop off.

8:04So there's a couple of things in that. It's raising a boundary or it's creating the boundary and then being okay with people leaving. And that's also something that I found incredibly hard. I hate it when people leave. I hate breakups. It goes against people pleasing completely, doesn't it? Because it's like, why are they gone? there's a maybe a rejection element to that. Rejection, abandonment, what did I do wrong, people pleasing. Yeah, there's all these questions, but there has to become a point where you're okay or you're comfortable enough in your own skin to be able to say, if you leave, it's not on me.

8:36It's not my problem every single time. And if I did play a part, let me take accountability. But you've got to allow people to be who they are. God, I mean, I'm 20 years married. so um that that whole rsd rejection sensitivity dysphoria you know where you don't know a tribal element you don't want to be rejected so in that environment where dare i say we're trying to sell ourselves to each other yeah yeah and by putting that boundary in place what you're saying is that that's a self-respect element and if that person hasn't met you there they were wrong for me there's a reframe it there's a reason why they've gone and actually probably saved myself a lot of time and energy down the line and then put your energy into the next and allowing them to go isn't rejection.

9:16It's just that you're not going to get on with everyone. I'm 40. If I meet another guy at 40, wow, if we get on, it's a miracle because I've got 40 years of stuff, stuff. He's got 40 years of his stuff. And then we're just meant to get on, get married, have kids and like two strangers meeting. And that's meant to just suddenly fall into a love story. It's hard work. So if he leaves because I've instilled a boundary that he didn't like, that is absolutely fine. It's pretty normal, right? We don't do it with friends. We don't meet everyone and go, friend, friend, friend, friend. We suss people out.

9:49We're like, actually, we get along and we align. These values align, and then it kind of goes forward slowly. But with dating relationships, there's an emphasis on it being really quick, especially when you reach, say, 40 or even when you get to 30. It was the same thing. I had a bit of a like, oh, panic. I'm 30. What have I not done? So I'm trying to teach women to be okay or just, it's all right. You know, you haven't met your person but you lived a good life right there's a relatability to this that i would transcend to say business and friendships which is that that whole i actually sometimes i've i've tried to make a business relationship where when i haven't picked up on the right vibration from that person oh i love that word vibration okay yeah there's a vibe there's a vibe here right there's a connection i feel like i'm i'm excited to learn from you there's a connection that you can probably feel i'm genuinely present and interested in learning from you right i've got so many questions spinning in my head.

10:38But I'd love to bring that back to that relatability piece where, how do you bottle that? You know, where you're with someone, whether it's that first date, meeting someone in business, you come away and you think, oh, I really like that person. I really want to do business with them. Or a friend, you meet them for the first time and you come away. What is that? When you say bottle it, what do you mean? The feeling of like the chemistry? Yes. There's a reason why you connect with certain people. And there's a reason why there's heckles are up or there's something they said. That's probably more in tune with what I'm saying.

11:09Is there certain things that you've got that self-awareness piece now with all the experience you've had, your own dating and all the things that you've done, to be like, red flags, green flags is probably what I'm saying. So, where someone's said something or done something and it's skewed the conversation away from where it might have done. That's my question. It's like... It's such a great feeling when something really connects, but there's plenty that necessarily don't. so the question is what how do you bottle that bit how do you lean into a space where you almost try and meet those people more what is it potentially the common denominator that you might find is someone that's giving off the right vibration this is another or is it a hunting game is it literally just you know trying to find them so i so this i'm going to try and answer this because there's lots of things that are in my head so i had a coaching session with someone who who got me to understand what it feels like to be the highest version of myself.

12:04I call her Flo, right? She is amazing, this woman, by the way. She is like, everything's cool, everything's calm. She is, she just lets things come in and when they're not right, they're just off they go. So that's the highest version of me. So when I am unsure of something, firstly, I tap into Flo, right? I tap into her and I'm like, what would Flo do? Because I don't know, I like this person, this is going really well. There's a couple of things I'm not sure, are they red flags, or they're not, what would flow do? And I've gone so deeply into this work with this coach that I had that it makes it incredibly easy to go, oh no, they're just not right.

12:37So that's one way of doing it. Another way is I did a public speaking course last year and we tapped into the energy systems. You mentioned vibration. So like how do you vibrate higher and how do you understand that? And there's something about when you vibrate, you've got to be ready to receive the vibration back. When you truly believe from a level of deep rooted self-love who you are and you understand how what level you are vibrating at, people start to vibrate at the same level as you. So you don't have to question, is this person right? Is that a red flag? Because you're in the flow of it and it's just coming into you.

13:19It feels very natural. yeah it's difficult to stay into that state it's difficult to be there all the time I you know 365 days a year I can't be there sometimes I just have an off day and that might be a day where we talked about social media you know I'm off social media I'm not doing I'm not making new connections I'm not doing business stuff because I'm not in that flow state but when I am it becomes very easy to understand what's right and what's wrong have I sort of answered your question yeah you have I love the fact that the uh the coach is called flow for the flow state so I mean And that is...

13:50And that is a lovely place to be with someone. Yes. With your work. And I'd love to cover that because your content has... Knowing we're talking today, I've been consuming all sorts of your content. You just seem so natural, so authentic. That's the word I'd love to compliment you with. Thank you. In a world where there's, dare I say, a lot of people putting content out with an ulterior agenda, whatever that might be. It feels like it's trying to help people. And dare I say, also help yourself as well. It's almost like quite cathartic. yeah and I want to talk about the confidence element of that because I mentioned I've got two teenage daughters growing up in the world where they won't post for fear of being judged or bullied amongst their their friendship group and yet you know we live in an attention economy and you're you're monetizing that you are very visible with that yeah I think again it's it's choosing when you do it so you know in an ideal world you have a structure Monday is recording day Tuesday is editing day Wednesday is release day let's just say if on a Monday I'm not in the mood to record.

14:48I just don't. And sometimes you don't even know until you've got your phone out and you're doing the thing and then you're like, God, my arm looks weird. This is weird. Everything about this. And you record something five times and it could just be a, hi guys, happy Monday. And if it doesn't feel good, that for me is an indication, okay, day is not filming day. And I have just started to accept that sometimes I can't produce what I want to produce because then you don't get the authenticity. If it's a job, you have to just switch it on and dig deep. I was just going to say, sometimes it's not a choice, right?

15:18But then you just push through that. Yeah, you do. And it almost, when it's a job, it comes from a different space, because you've been asked to do something. So you kind of tap into like, well, I'm in work mode now, you know, I have to complete this. But when it's yourself, and you're just trying to get some content out there, or you've had a conversation with somebody, and it's really good, and you're like, oh, I'd like to use that on my socials. If I'm just, yeah, if I'm not in the mood, I just simply don't do it because I wouldn't be able to deal with the repercussions if there were bad comments or there were trolls or something.

15:54I just wouldn't be able to deal with it on that day. Because you use social media as a force for good. You're putting out content that in any one way people can learn from, benefit, entertain. But just literally what you just said there, that's sort of the negativity side of it. The fact that there are people out there that will bring other people down and so on. What's been your own personal experience of that and what advice can you give to someone that in any way perhaps would be fear of even starting for the fear of that happening? So I've been very lucky I would say with first dates because that's where my sort of social media presence started.

16:26For 12 years I've had a lovely response. The show is fluffy, it's warm, it's kind so the followers are I would say similar to the tone of the show. since I transitioned from just doing TV to dating coaching wow I saw a huge shift but the one of my mentors I've got so many people that talk to me said if you're disliked you're doing something right and if you're liked by everybody you're doing something wrong and I had to be comfortable with that as well so when I started getting these trolls haters whatever you want to call them I thought oh I'm actually doing something right I'm going to keep doing this because the minute you start sharing your own opinions, people don't like it because they put you in a box.

17:12I like Cece being fluffy and monotone and not actually speaking her mind. And now I'm actually, yeah, like, you know, talking about like spitting the bill and things like this. Wow. My inbox just goes nuts. But on a good day, I can just go, look at this. And on a shit day, I go, okay, I need to like talk to someone. Did I do the wrong thing? It's really interesting. Splitting the bill. That was one of my questions. And elaborating on, Because I'm out of the dating game, right? Yeah. So you're in the heart of it. Yeah. What's the protocol right now? You just don't. No. OK. So the difference is generation.

17:46It's all generational. I'm an 80s baby. I come from a family. My dad, he he was that guy. So he likes to pay. So I've my journey has been or how I've understood dating or dinner is is that. So I like that. There's something about it. It just feels really good to me. And the only way I can describe it is that one of my values is generosity. So if someone is generous on the first day, it goes quite far for me. There is no wrong or right. And I think you have to do it. You have to show people who you really are. And if you can do that on date one, amazing, because then you both save each other some heartache down the line.

18:22Because we're all trying to impress on date one, right? So we're like, well, I'll pay the bill. And then date two, I'll do the same thing. Then date three, maybe they start slipping. And then you start seeing who they really are. so you might as well just show who you are and own it. It's hard to do. I mean, if I was a guy dating now, I'd probably be like, oh, I don't know, are you a modern woman? Are you like, it's confusing. I get that. I watched a guy on the train the other day leap up to offer a lady his seat. He was quite busy. Yeah. And she was so disgusted with him and she dressed him down in front of her.

18:53And your expression then, we're all, and felt so sorry for this guy. Her reaction was clearly, you know, this is out of date and who do you think I am?" And so she's a well-dressed businesswoman, but he didn't know what to do. So no one sat down in this chair and it just felt so broken. And then just putting myself in that position. I was brought up that way, open doors for women. But I'll open doors for another man as well. It's sort of, it's slightly tainted towards, it's just good manners. Yeah, this is it. Does that make sense? So it's like how much of this leads into equality and how much of it's actually just being good people.

19:26Because a lot of us now, headphones on, going around, doing our own thing. And then actually, how do we behave when we're together in an environment where we're trying to, in any one way, impress someone? I honestly don't think there's a wrong or right. I think you just have to do what feels comfortable for the person. You know, I was dating someone last year who was 10 years younger. He did, he was so gentlemanly, he did everything that a guy I was dating who was in his 40s wasn't doing. He was trying to pay, but he was really trying to impress. So that went really far with me. It's very... For me, it's just quite a personal thing, though.

20:02And I guess the women I speak to feel the same. So I only know my circle and I know the women's workshops I do. Online, there's a whole other world. They have different opinions, but, you know, that's fine. But for me, I just would... I really like generous people. And I think on a first day, it just goes quite far for me so generous kind always what else so um putting yourself into the place of uh a guy watching this now knowing the specialty that you've got what what what can a guy do on a first date and i think that's a really important point you make it's not just the first date be consistent because you're three dates in four dates in if you are not that way you're gonna it's gonna be showed up what what other values are really important i think it is it it's it's literally that it's who are you on date one and who are you on date 10?

20:51Can you sustain the person you decided to be on date one? And it really, and it sounds so cliche, you know, just be yourself. But if you're going for an interview, right, you put your best shirt on, you show up, right, because you want to get the jobs, you want to impress, but you don't lie. You tell people, you share, you hype yourself up because that's what we're doing in an interview so that you get the second stage, right? But you're still yourself. You're not lying about the person you are. And it's the same as dating. You don't lie about what you have done or what you haven't done. It's, if you're a shy, negative, I don't know, if you're someone that, if that's who you are, just be that person because then you save each other time, heartache.

21:37No one likes to waste time. The most valuable we think we have and can offer is our time. So just don't waste people's. Be yourself. Yeah. This is a question that I'm not sure how you'll answer, but I don't know if you watched Manosphere, Louisa Rood. I did. Yes. Yes. I watched it a couple of weeks ago as well. And the reason why I brought it up is because two daughters of mine growing up into a world where it feels so different to you, the 80s girl, you know, I'm 70s, 80s. And that sort of dating dynamic feels so different now with the crisis of identity and confidence in young boys and not necessarily knowing how to treat them.

22:14And that comes from lack of fatherhood, kind of broken families and then role models, misogyny and all that that's been put out there. Are you seeing that in context of everything that you see that the next generation coming through dating very differently to what's become the norm and are you concerned about that i'm not seeing it i i'm quite specific with what i choose to watch so i don't watch the news it doesn't make me feel good doesn't make me happy i want to know about what's going on but i i think it's what you put your attention into like it's the algorithm right if i started typing manosphere manosphere manosphere or um dating whatever you're typing in it's just feeding you so my algorithm is like labradors and dating advice like it is it's just it's too extreme there's nothing else on there i don't want to wake up in the morning and and see this negativity so it's hard to do like you know your daughter's 14 and 16 right yeah how do they know how to wake up in the morning going i know i'm just going to make sure the algorithm's on my side i'm just going to type in positive things it's really difficult i i mean i'm not a parent, I don't know how that looks, but this Manus Fia crowd is very niche and very specific and it's not come over into my world and I don't know if that's just because I'm just not in that space and I find it, it's horrendous.

23:38It's scary, isn't it? It's very scary and like you said, it comes down to role models. So if the parents aren't showing their kids how to be and how to treat people, then that's what happens. they find it from someone else. I know that guy, he's got loads of money, oh, he'll do. Yeah. That ecosystem and how you spend time and who you spend time with, what you spend time watching and so on, it's really important. And just to really bring this back to you, to humanise you, what does a typical day look like? Because it feels like you're really busy, there's a lot going on. And I want to understand how you make time for your sort of physical and mental fitness, if you like.

24:13Talking just a minute ago before we started filming about tennis, I want to know what you do to keep physically and kind of mentally fit. I have to really watch my mental health. I think I could go... I could... I very easily can go into a place I don't want to go in. So I put... I put a lot of time, effort, money into understanding myself so that I have my tool belt and I literally visualize it. I'm like, right, what do I need today? Today's the day. Okay, I'm going to go for this. I'm going to go for a walk. Today, I need a little bit more than that. I know. I'll call a friend. and I have things in life that I can tap into to to have a good day your coping mechanisms my coping mechanisms um you know you just said about tennis tennis is it's the obsession is it's unhealthy I am obsessed with this thing because in that moment or that hour that 60 minutes you can't think about anything else no because I'm not good as well so all I'm thinking about lots of learning going on yeah i just need to hit this ball it's all i need to do and it's it you know the gym they both give me that same feeling that the endorphins the the switch off i just went to the gym before here and and i actually had a moment in the because i was doing my makeup and i thought i know what i'm about to do i'm going to a podcast how lovely that i've just had an hour to not think about this podcast i've had an hour in the morning to just absolutely invest in me this is cool and it was like i know this stuff right you're making time for it's a conscious effort, right?

25:39It's a conscious effort, yeah. Yeah, I'm like that. And I wonder where you sit with that sort of almost like a morning routine. A lot of people, you know, a lot of people watching and people that know you would describe you as successful. And I wonder where that sits with you in terms of have you built in a mechanism, again, that morning routine that works for you? Do you know, I, no, is the answer to that. It's quite refreshing to hear that. Yeah, I used to like try, I remember I went to Bali and I saw these girls, you know, and they were like, morning routine, 4am, get up, then I moved to Sydney and the Bondi crowd in Sydney are 4am.

26:12You know, you get up at four, you go for a run, you go for another run, you go for coffee and then you start your day. And I tried. I really wanted to be part of that club, but I just couldn't do it. It'd get to 2pm, I was knackered. I'd need an afternoon snooze and I felt lazy. And then they go to bed at half seven. So you're trying to date and he's like, oh, I've got to go now. It's half past seven. And I thought, this isn't me. I'm forcing it. So I don't. I'm a feelings person. Not every day I'm in the mood not every day like the commitment I make to myself is the gym that's non-negotiable and I make those commitments when I'm in the mood so on a Sunday or a Saturday I know I know my gym routine I always you know 9 9 30 I'm in there and there's just no questions asked the decision is already made if I don't make those decisions that's when my day just goes to I can't if I miss the gym or if I've um scrolled for like an hour and done oh god I should probably probably get up now that's then everything the day just goes down so I don't have a morning routine I get up every morning around 6 30 I have my coffee I then go into absolute panic mental mode of like my ADHD kicks in I need to do this I need to do that even though all I've got to do is get ready for the gym but then I find something to do I'm like oh maybe I'll just paint a nail oh no I should probably at the gym by now but I always I'm always there at nine or nine thirty so I mean if you had a camera on me in the morning it would be very entertaining it's yeah there's there's no structure it's just like rah yeah but the gym is what levels me out there's a self-awareness piece there the fact that you can laugh about it but still know that there's an element of chaos and and sort of herding the cats but you get to where you get to and also are you are you forgiving when you don't so those days where it just doesn't come together do you just allow yourself to go i just say day but i'll own again tomorrow is that how is that how you look at it i work on that no i'm not brilliant at it because i don't i when i work tonight till five saturday and sundays were amazing because then you could just actually switch off and you've worked hard you feel like it you get to friday you're tired you go for a drink and you've earned it i've earned it it's brilliant oh let's have a lay-in but when you have when you everything is ad hoc everything is freelance everything is there's no real i create my structure so if i have a thursday afternoon where i'm a bit tired and i think, oh, I could do the power snooze, but I don't know if I want to do that.

28:30I do give myself a hard time. I think it's for my dad. He's just, he's the over worker. And, but I also like to moan about it. I like moaning being busy. I like to moan that I've worked too hard. I, you know, I love, like, oh, it's been a really hard week. Oh, overtired again. Yeah, I get that. How, how would you describe success sitting here now? Happiness. Success is happiness to me. If I'm happy, I'm successful and happiness comes it's it's just a feeling for me it's like waking up in the morning and going wow I feel energetic like energy is a big thing like if I'm not feeling energetic I don't like that because again it goes sort of south so I get I get really happy when I'm energetic and people I think I feed off other people and their energy so if I'm around good people and I've got a good team and maybe around some dogs love animals like these are all things that make me feel really good and I mean that from you know traveling around I've lived in a few countries and I've had some wonderful experiences but I have been so unhappy in some of those spaces so even when you're in Bali and you've got this villa because everything's cheap out there and you're like you treat you like a queen if you're not happy none of it none of it matters no it's really important to share that there's a I feel like visualization which can of course lead into manifesting is a really really big part of how you you know when you articulate talking to me that I'm creating images that you're painting through your words, if that makes sense.

29:58Flipping it back to dating, have you almost got that visualization of who and what that might look like? Do you know, I actually recently did a manifestation on this. So I don't know what I, I think I'm a secret manifester. So I think I secretly manifest and things happen. I'm like, oh yeah, I thought about that. So I don't know if I consciously go today, I'm going to manifest the man of my dreams. However, recently I did try to do that and this guy came up in this visual and I was excited because I was like, cool, now I know what he looks like. Sure. But every guy I've met since him doesn't look like this guy.