From Accountant to Premier League Chairman: Cliff Crown’s Extraordinary Life Stories

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0:39With a personalised plan designed to help you hit your money goals. Start filing today in the Credit Karma app. If you can't be the centre forward of your favourite team scoring the winning goal at Wembley, then I think being chairman of a Premier League football club comes a pretty close second. It's glowing when you say that. Tell me, who is Cliff Crowell? I was a young man from North West London. I had a real love of numbers, built a career in accountancy. After 29 years, I made a very big life decision. The rest, they say, is history. A day in the life of being the chairman fascinates me. I imagine there's no days the same.

1:16Being chairman of a Premier League football club is very different to being an accountant in practice. And I remember people saying to me, Cliff, have you made the right decision? I don't know. I said, ask me in two years' time and then I'll tell you whether I made the right decision. But right now, I can't tell you it's the right decision. I just know it's a decision I want to make. Football is random. It's a low-scoring sport. Anything can happen. You can have good days, you can have bad days, and we do. We have good days and we have bad days. For Brentford, facing forwards, what can you hope to achieve?

1:52What are the ambitions? Benham instilled in all of us the importance of never sitting on your laurels, always looking to be a little bit better.

2:14Welcome. Thank you. Looking forward to this conversation. Me too. Tell me, who is Cliff Crowell? I was a young man from North West London who from a very early age wanted to be a chartered accountant, which is pretty unusual for a 13 year old. But I had a real love of numbers. And so my parents suggested that accountancy was the right career for me. And so I followed that path, was very keen to get out of school and get into working life, earning money from a young age and then studying, qualifying, built a career in accountancy. And after 29 years, I made a very big life decision to give up public practice and to join my largest client as their CFO.

3:08And that was Matthew Benham at Smart Odds. and 18 months later he bought Brentford and the rest they say is history. With a big smile on your face. Totally. Living the dream. I'm looking forward to getting to that part. The 13 year old recognising you were good with numbers, getting the advice from your parents to go to, that intrigues me because as a 13 year old at school myself I didn't know what I wanted to do. Right. And I was really surrounded, I was almost envious of the people that clearly had that purpose and kind of knowledge of where they wanted to go. So being good with numbers, did you also thrive in school or did you just have that, because you had that desire to be an accountant, did you also find everything else enjoyable?

3:52Because there's a community element to school as well. Yeah. I enjoyed school. I wouldn't say I was particularly good at school. Arithmetic and maths was my passion and I was really good at mental maths in particular. And it's interesting because I now see that in my seven-year-old grandson who is just like me when I was his aide really strong on mental maths but for the rest of school I was a really average student I remember my mother saying to me you may not earn a fortune but if you're an accountant you'll always earn a good living and that felt good to me fair play there's security element element to that as well isn't it so there's there's a natural element of being able to provide for yourself using the skill sets so where does the interest in football come in did you play yourself so i played as a as a boy but my main interest in football was developed when i was seven when my late uncle took me to football and i immediately fell in love with the game despite the fact that he took me to a match which the team lost and I grew up as an Arsenal fan so he would take me every week to all the home games and he would give money to the chap at the turnstile and lift me over the turnstiles as a young boy and there was always a spare seat around and if not I sat on his lap and we did that for a number of years until finally he got married and by that time his other passion was tennis and his wife basically said you've got a choice you can either play tennis or you can go to football but you can't do both by which time he was probably getting a little disillusioned with football so he chose tennis I then started to go to football with a guy who lived near me and he used to take me to the home games but I was completely hooked.

5:57And what got you hooked? Because the team that you went to see lost, that you were hooked from the passion? The passion, the atmosphere, the whole experience and we actually ended up having a Saturday morning ritual which was he would drive to Marlebone High Street and he would go and have a haircut and hot towels on his face. Then he would go and have his nails manicured at the Regent Palace Hotel at Piccadilly Circus. Then we'd go to the Nosh Bar and have a salt beef sandwich. And then he'd drive to the Arsenal and park, and we'd walk to the ground. And this became our ritual for five, six years.

6:39And for me, it was very special. So much so that when I was bar mitzvah at age 13, and it's usual during that process that your best friend stands up and makes a speech about you at the party it was my uncle that gave me the speech because he really was my best friend i love that there's so much there there's a role model element there's community but you know what i love as well not one bit there when i asked you about the passion was about a game about it was everything around the game and i think that's a key thing to bring into this conversation how we met through trevor trevor hotkins yeah over a really enjoyable dinner yeah with good people put together there's a real community element to football isn't it and it's so much to do with outside of the 90 minutes on the pitch very much so it's uh everybody knows everybody uh certainly from my time working at brentford our view is football is a village and you get to know so many different people and there's so many connections and there's a camaraderie.

7:42We may be against each other on the pitch, but off the pitch, we're all in it together. We're all trying to grow the football business. And so we have very strong mutual beliefs and respect for each other and want to help each other be successful. I love that. And that ripples from the players on the pitch to the management, the chairman of Brentford. I'm not sure if we've actually acknowledged that in this conversation. So there's a real leadership piece there. But that word that you use, camaraderie, I want to open up that sort of the kind of leadership team, if you like, of how you will work together to a common goal.

8:22Because right now, I'm sure it potentially goes up or down by the time we come out on air, but you're seventh in the Premier League right now. So there's a huge amount of success going on. And how does that work from your point of view with the team you've got? Well, it's developed over time. So I've been chairman for coming up to 13 years. Matthew bought the club in June of 2012 and made me a director. And then a year later, I took over from Greg Dyke, who was chairman at the time, and he got appointed to become chair of the FA. And so we were a very small club with an average gate of about 5 ,000 in a stadium that was 108 years old.

9:04but we had a vision and I think what I would say is the most compelling reason for our success is the alignment from top to bottom within the club and and the fact that actually we've had very little change at the very top end of the club consistency consistency I've been chairman quite a long time our CEO has been in place for seven years our director of football has been in place for 11 years and various other senior members of the team been around a long time and that does help create a good working environment how does that relate to other premier league clubs because the the bit that makes the press if you like is the manager doesn't perform after an x amount of games they're out there's very little time allowed to whereas the management senior management seems to have been allowed to really bed in there and the results now show and and And that's largely down to, I think, the fact that we've done a pretty good job overall.

10:05But also we've had one owner. You know, there's been lots of changes in ownership in Premier League football clubs and other EFL clubs over the years. And with change in ownership comes change in personnel and change in the management team. Whereas we've been able to keep that consistent number of people and the same kind of people in the same roles. There's a lot to be learned from that. And I think also just the fact that you were that young lad that got lifted over the turnstiles to then have the empathy now as chairman of a club you clearly love, it's doing very well. To now know that that community piece is so important.

10:43There are kids coming through right now that are going to fall in love with the game. And who knows where that takes them and their ambitions and aspirations. But they're potentially, from my point of view, before meeting you, could be an element of chairman being slightly removed from the community. Sort of almost an overarching role. But I know from when we've had chats before today that you're really involved in that community. In particular, I want to explain what you started in COVID with milestone birthdays. With Sam's Club, you have the freedom to shop your own way. Curbside pickup? Deliver to your doorstep?

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12:04Shop the new Chronologist line at kerastos.com. Yeah, so actually it started just before COVID when at the end of the season, a small number of season ticket holders didn't renew. and one of the things I said to the team was well do we know why they're not renewing is it something we're doing is it something in their lives and they said well we don't know the exact reasons so I said right what we're going to do is myself and one of my colleagues we're going to ring the season ticket holders who don't renew at the end of the season and ask them how what's the reason are there things that we're doing that have affected your decision and then that moved forward once COVID hit to well perhaps we should be talking to some of our season ticket holders who might be on their own so we chose to ring all of the season ticket holders over 80 to just see if they were okay because chances are that a lot of them were on their own that's a lovely gesture and and it went down so well that we actually thought this is an opportunity to expand that.

13:21So we said, right, let's take season ticket holders with milestone birthdays, 18, 21, all the noughts up to 80 and above. And between five or six of us on the board and at senior level, we'll ring them. So every month I get a list of about 30 season ticket holders whose birthdays are during that month, and I ring them. So it could be two or three a day over maybe 10 to 15 days in a month. And it's a magical 10 or 15, 20 minutes of a day because you get to speak to fans who in many cases have been fans for 50, 60, 70 years. And then conversely, you'll talk to an 18-year-old or a 21-year-old who's only been a fan for 8 or 12 years but been a fan since a child.

14:13Why? Because their father or their grandfather father or their uncle took them to the game or their mother and suddenly it's just a wonderful experience to hear what they think of the club what they think of how we're doing um I always ask them about the stadium because I knew that it was a big thing for fans who had been going to Griffin Park for 40 50 years to suddenly have to move to a brand new stadium nobody likes change but thankfully it's all gone really well and everybody's happy with the gtech yeah well change is progress isn't it but no the passion the the amount of people that you uh have made their birthday actually memorable and again linking the passion and the community element you must have some fun stories where someone's gone it's not really cliff is it or really have you had that i've had i've had the phone put down on me i think on very few occasions i've actually people have answered the phone i've said i've rung to wish you a happy birthday and they've said is that cliff crown and that always blows me away that they can recognize my voice which i find astonishing you're very important yeah yeah i i've got number a number of emails and a number of comments from fans who said oh you've made my day and that's that's just magic love that and there's an element there that that shows that you love to give back and that's cliff but that's also brentford and and giving back into that community which you know there's there's a lot of negative press a lot of stress if you like out there for people how important is that to you and almost bringing that that as a personal question to you some of the things you might have done and of course some things that brentford are doing i've always felt that it's important i think it's something that was instilled in me by my parents who gave back to their community when I was a child and I got involved in the local youth club as a leader so I started off as a helper and by the time I was 18 I was in charge of running the youth club which would meet every Tuesday and Thursday night and actually I was even paid by the local council as a youth club leader to run the youth club so I've been used to giving back over many years and then joining Brentford and seeing what we have done in the community over the last, well the Community Sports Trust has been going 37, 38 years now and one of the things that was a very important part of getting the planning permission for the stadium was the amount of work we were doing in the local community and what the council said is we have or you the trust have evaluated that you're doing about eight million pounds a year so that's money that or value that we're giving to the local community that the council don't have to pay for and they said we'd like you to commit to making that 11 million pounds within three years of the stadium opening and frankly at the time we thought that was quite a big ask.

17:29We were a very small team and doing a lot in the community. And we were in the championship. In fact, we were in League One when we actually had this first conversation. Rolled on 10 years from planning to getting into the Premier League, the trust growing and developing. And at the end of 23, we got a report to say that the value that we had provided over the previous three years was 140 million pounds of value to the local community and we look we look after people from very young ages all the way up to 80 plus and it's different activities that we're doing whether it's walking football or mental health or general football and other sporting activities for boys girls men women it's astonishing wow that's good congratulations thank you i can tell that there's a lovely without any arrogance at all there's a lovely kind of pride in in what you've made happen yeah um and what you're doing well it's not me it's a big team yeah no absolutely i think that's a key key part to bring in leadership because it's it's a royal we yeah And I want to understand that kind of where you sit with the values of leadership that really matter and ultimately what makes a great leader.

18:51I don't consider myself to be a great leader. I just think I'm a nice guy. And I think most people who come across me get that warmth and that passion that I exude. when we have a match day at Brentford, I do a welcome speech. There's no other chairman in the Premier League who does that. And I welcome our guests and I provide some data and statistics about the teams and some of the players, for example. And it always goes down extremely well. And that's just building on the feeling that everybody gets when they come to the stadium. From the minute you walk in the door to the minute you come to the boardroom, to the waitresses, to the stewards, everybody there is on the same hymn sheet providing first class service.

19:49And I learned many, many years ago that if you can get it right first time, every time, you are going to be successful in business. I love that. And the fact that you openly say I'm just a nice, open guy. there's a lot to be said about leadership that allows everyone around you to be able to flourish within their capacity with values aligned and that's really coming across yeah um a day in the life of being the chairman fascinates me i imagine there's no day is the same talk me through that you're right no day is the same there's always things going on um as do you thrive from that do you enjoy that because a large part of sort of interrupt you but a large part of what you've done previously would have had a certain amount of routine oh very much so yes being chairman of a premier league football club is very different to being an accountant in practice but one of the things that attracted me to leaving the profession and i'd been in the same job for 29 years and i had grown my practice so i was looking after a lot of clients and advising them on how they should be more efficient, save tax, et cetera, et cetera.

21:00And one of the things that most enticed me into the move was the ability to stop advising people and start making decisions for myself. Because you can advise as much as possible, but ultimately the client will make the final decision. And the opportunity to be a part of our decision-making process and a team of people was really attractive to me. And I was 54 at the time, so it was quite a leap of faith. And I remember people saying to me, Cliff, have you made the right decision? And my answer was really simple and straightforward. I don't know. I said, ask me in two years' time, and then I'll tell you whether I made the right decision.

21:45But right now, I can't tell you it's the right decision. I just know it's a decision I want to make. and obviously within two years I was on the board of Brentford and a year later became chairman. And it's like living a dream, frankly. And obviously getting into the Premier League is just the icing on the cake. No, it's super exciting. Until we potentially get into Europe. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C.

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23:11Well, I want to come to aspirations and ambitions. We'll take one day at a time. But that lovely way of depicting what is ultimately a discipline and a work ethic, if you like, that clearly from 13, deciding, knowing you're good at numbers, deciding you're going to go counseling, early signs of leadership to be leading the youth community at 18. And I want to sort of humanize you, if you like. There's an element of good leadership is making decisions, even if you don't know the answer. But actually to be able to say, I'm not sure, ask me, but you're accountable for that. Yeah. managing your own kind of mental fitness as well as physical fitness because anyone that's successful typically has a story about having an early routine going to the gym going for a run want to know what works for you just humanizing you a bit so i played five-a-side football i played 11 aside as a as a teenager and then after i got married i started playing five-a-side football and I actually played until I was 56 at which point I had to retire for health reasons but I loved every week Tuesday night went to a local school indoor five-a-side football and that's what kept me fit.

24:26Fair play and the mental side because there's a pressure with what you do you know there's any one time front or back page conversations that could be happening particularly based on the actual performance of the club if like how do you how do you manage that I guess I've been lucky um I'm a grafter as I say I I didn't do particularly well at school I never I've never considered myself to be particularly bright but I'm I'm a good people person and I work really hard and I've probably worked six days a week for most of my career my wife would probably say I've worked seven days a week but between looking after the family and spending time with them it becomes all-consuming and there's no question that football is all-consuming.

25:16I get that and I know other people in football and it's addictive is the wrong word but consuming is probably actually the right word where it's dominating every part of the brain and I think I wanted to bring that because you know bring your wife your daughter into the conversation am i right in saying you've only missed four brentford games since it's been involved and where i'm going a bit is i want to compliment you on the work ethic of the the grafting because there's a lot now that's put out about this sort of the woke generation coming through where they see success on instagram as a lamborghini and a dubai view and someone's saying i achieved this in a year and it's probably someone that's selling a course and it's all kind of yeah rubbish but my point being i think there's an element of people that think they can get somewhere quick without the effort the hard work and just everything about this conversation with you is a reminder actually i'm really grafted and continue to like you're not a bus pass no retiree anytime soon no absolutely not but that juggling balancing uh family which is always something i wonder if it's a myth and using that four game mist you've been there to when when you've needed to be and probably good reason to miss something how have you juggled that having an extremely understanding wife helps a lot let me tell you and an understanding family my daughter and my two sons um but let me take you back before i answer that question um my father uh worked seven days a week he had a shop and he worked Monday to Saturday in his shop and every Sunday he would sit in the dining room and do his bookkeeping and accounting and send out his invoices and all that stuff.

27:00So growing up I that I didn't have a lot of time with my father and ultimately he died when I was quite a young man and I missed all of that. My uncle kind of took his place to some extent when he was taking me to football every other week so I vowed as a young man not to do that and to find time to spend with my family but also knew that I had to work hard to be successful and provide for them and when I became chairman I remember saying to my wife she said to me do you have to go to all the matches and i said no i don't have to go but it's part of my job and because i want to do my job to the best of my ability i intend to go to all the matches and of the four that i've missed two of them was because i had covid and therefore i couldn't go to the games so i didn't want to infect others and two of them were down to family parties weddings and i think both weddings yeah but other than that it's an important part of the job and actually it's a part of the job I love yeah going into other boardrooms talking to the other chairman the other directors one of the other things we do at Brentford which again is is different to most is we mix everybody up so I will sit on a table with the chairman of the other club my CEO will sit with their CEO on my table then we'll have other directors of Brentford sitting with other directors of the other club on another table we'll have guests we mingle everybody together so that you get a warm feeling inside the boardroom that's brilliant it doesn't happen elsewhere no very few love that there's a real element of role model about you you know it's almost cliche so they don't make them like that anymore but that's really where i'm coming from with you and i love that you brought your own father in because although you clearly didn't get to spend the time that you'd liked there was an element of role model where this guy works hard he's providing and that's again a key part that's potentially missing in in the younger generation coming through now i think it's a really important lesson i think we all get shaped by how we uh grow up and by what our parents do and i think i think i i always said that i was fortunate that i actually had the good parts of my dad and the good parts of my mum and I recognised there were parts of both of them that weren't so good and I didn't have them so I always felt very fortunate and I've tried to instil that in all of my children and along the way I've given them some by words to think about and use to run their life by of which one of which I brought into the business from a very early, from the very beginning, which is what you can measure, you can manage.

30:06And if you can't measure it, you sure as hell can't manage it. That's great advice. And I really lived by that for the last 25 years because it's so important. I'm really interested to know how you'll answer this question, actually, just with the level of, I'm going to use the word success that you've had with humility. how do you define success sitting here now? For me the number one priority was always providing for my family that for me is the most defining aspect of success so being able to provide for my family has been for me the most important issue and I think I've done that reasonably well and enjoying your job along the way I loved being an accountant.

30:56I really did. I loved advising clients. I loved telling them what I think they should do, even if they didn't necessarily want to hear it. I knew that was what I felt was the right thing for them. So I would tell them. And as I said, whether they took that advice was ultimately down to them. So I've really enjoyed that part of my career. And then and I moved into commerce and then becoming involved in Brentford. When you grow up as a football fan and you love football and then you work in football, if you can't be the centre forward of your favourite team scoring the winning goal at Wembley, then I think being chairman of a Premier League football club comes a pretty close second.

31:44Glowing when you say that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So for Brentford, facing forwards, what can you hope to achieve? What are the ambitions? Building on what we've achieved to date. I've said to a number of people over the years that if we can achieve half as much in the next five years as we've achieved in the last five years, we'll all be pretty happy, I think. But it's a continual process. Matthew Benham, instilled in all of us the importance of never sitting on your laurels always looking to be a little bit better in everything that you do and we really believe that that is the way forward for the club and so we're constantly evolving constantly trying to get a little bit better and see where it takes us so transferable to life isn't it i live my life by that you know like We're filming early March 26.

32:47I had no big reset for the new year and bring lots of new things. I just tried to do everything better. I think that's a really key, important message. And actually, if you look at the, let's just take the Premier League rather than the whole of football and how many changes, seismic changes in certain clubs that then actually don't necessarily warrant your huge spending changes of management team. And then they don't necessarily warrant the results that are expected. is there a lesson there that it's working you as a you as a team group of people from the players all the way through to the management are achieving almost a David and Goliath kind of battle if you like to be placed where you are and looking up

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34:16Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel maybe? Or a white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Yes, I mean, there's no question that with the much smaller resources that we have, we have punched above our weight. But the one thing I have learned over many years is that there is no given right for that to continue. And so if you don't constantly strive to improve and be better at what you do, you always run the risk of going backwards.

34:59and nobody wants to go backwards. So it's something that we continually look to achieve. Understanding that football is random, it's a low-scoring sport, anything can happen. You can have good days, you can have bad days, and we do. We have good days and we have bad days. But you need to cut through that and look at the trend and see how we're doing. And perhaps one of the best examples of that was when we employed Thomas Frank as our head coach back in 2018. And he lost eight of his first 10 matches. And most football clubs, that would have meant cut the manager, find somebody else. But we understood the underlying data.

35:49And the underlying data said that we were doing reasonably well in terms of what the data was showing. and so we persevered and from that moment on things changed and results improved because if you trust the data then ultimately you should become successful. That's really it was really important to hear that isn't it there's an element of loyalty there that doesn't seem to exist so much anymore either which probably makes you a very close-knit group of people that have come through so much to now be yes achieving a lot but actually fully realistic at any one time it can be up and down but you're making the decisions based on things that have worked for you previously that could and should work for you in the future exactly that and we've proved it over many years so there's an element of trust in the people in the process in the data which enables us to continue along the path, always knowing that there will be challenges along the way.

36:52Yeah. I want to say this point because we're about to close out. It's almost like a therapy session talking to you. You have so much knowledge. There's so much to learn from you. Thank you. It's relatable from a personal point, but also I think so transferable in business, parenting, just so much of what you say. Thank you. So what I get a feeling from you is that no day feels like work. You are so enjoying what you're doing, which is a big part of the inspiration I've got for you. Are you someone that sees yourself doing this indefinitely? Is this something that you'd like to do until you're almost forced to stop?

37:27I think that the next couple of years are going to be an interesting period for the club. The possibility of Europe will be very challenging, but a challenge that we'd be very happy to face and face it full on. But I am nearly 70 years of age and I think my family deserve to spend some more time with me. I'd like to play a bit of golf and pursue some other activities and a bit more holiday time. So at some point in the next few years, I think it will be time to hand over the reins. But for now, I'm loving every minute of it. And every day is really a huge enjoyment for me in what I do. The people I do it with, both in the club, outside the club, within football generally.

38:30And whilst I'm happy and healthy, I'll continue for as long as I can. Yeah, you've got a proper twinkle in your eye for someone that's nearly 70. I know how busy you are as well. So I want to thank you for making time to talk with me. I hope you've enjoyed it. I have. It's been fantastic. I can't believe it's gone so quick. No, too quick. But Cliff, thank you. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to carvana.com, enter your license plate or VIN, and get a real offer down to the penny.

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