From War Zones to the Sports Board Room: The Extraordinary Life of Vicky Gosling OBE

0:00When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. low energy unfocused foggy you might be dehydrated whether it's hot yoga over 100 degree weather or too much sun gator light with a specialized blend of five electrolytes was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration shop now at retailers nationwide gator light hydrates faster than water is it in you symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration.

0:57Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. When I was in the military, I'd always say like you had your battle buddy on your right and your battle buddy on the left. And then I went into the corporate world and I was like, whoa, who's got my back? And that takes quite a lot of learning when you've been in quite a secure environment. Tell me, who is Vicky Gosling, OBE? Combination of a mum of three, group captain in the Air Force military, sport leader of snow sports, surfing, jockey club, entry, Invictus Games chair, and Olympic board some years. Where's the free time in that? That's a busy schedule, right?

1:30Progression of women in sport has just blown up over the last few years. How do you feel as a woman in the management side of things, but seeing this all evolving and developing while you're shaping it? I always used to try and find women I could look up to. In particular, I always looked for women that had children, because I always knew I wanted children. So I'd always think, well, if you can do that job and you can have children, then it's possible. How have you managed that? Because you brought teams together. The Invictus Games is a great example of yourself. I'm working with Prince Harry.

1:54I learned in the military that, you know, as an individual, you're pretty insignificant. It takes a really strong team to get results. You know, I always surround myself with people of brilliance and then the results happen. I've learned a lot more from the failures than I have the successes. The reality is that it's only you that holds you back.

2:24sorry to interrupt i've never asked this before but if you can subscribe and follow that will allow me to keep bringing extraordinary guests onto the show now let's get back to it looking forward to this conversation so am i tell me who is vicky gosley obe um combination I have a mum of three, group captain in the Air Force military, sport leader of snow sports, surfing, jockey club, Aintree, Invictus Games chair and Olympic board seven years. That's the free time in that. That's a busy schedule, right? It's a bit crazy. But you obviously thrive on being busy. I do. I love people. Has that always been the case?

3:07Yes. Were you like the kind of the kid in class that couldn't concentrate? You know what I mean? 100%. I was definitely one of those. I probably did the best creative writing and was the worst at maths. Interesting. That parallels me. And finally, my oldest daughter has just passed her English literature. No, language. Got that middle of that. Language. With an A star and just scraped the maths. That was me. Yeah. That was me. Guaranteed. Loved the stories, but terrible at maths. So, to someone that's gone on to do so much, which we'll come to, how did you decide what you wanted to do? I don't know it's one of these I mean I always wanted to fly when I was little I had this thing about helicopters and and I loved the thought of you know doing something like that and then I did I like the thought of traveling so I also did languages when I went to university um and then you know ultimately I looked at the air force and the navy I think I went to a convent school from the age of three and a half and it was all about discipline uniform but being part of a family and I think I really enjoyed that side of structure because I'm probably less structured personally as you can see but I really like the structured environment and being part of something so that's I kind of I applied to both got accepted for both and then picked the air force and off I went.

4:22I like that because there's a real community element to that isn't there so there's a social element there's a there's a human connection there is which can be lost in the world of AI tech talk now that we can do it all without people but actually at the heart of everything you do and we must bring sport into that as well is people. It is it's about it's about the people you know I I learned in the military that you know as an individual you're pretty insignificant it takes a really strong team to get results and and I guess that's kind of the way that I operate you know I always surround myself with people of brilliance and then the results happen.

4:57I'd love to open that up values in people so so I'm sitting opposite you and you're a proven leader in so many ways what do you look for and what do you value most in leadership integrity so I think you know for me it's about integrity it's about trust I mean when you're in the military people go to hell and back for you and what they stand for and actually I like to create the sense of belonging and the sense of trust because when you get that sense of trust and when people know that you've got their back and it's reciprocated. There's nothing better. And the amount you can achieve with that is huge because when you're distracted by people who actually you don't have that sense of trust with, it's exhausting and it can literally take you down the wrong track because it takes your energy away.

5:43When you're surrounded by people you trust and you're surrounded in an environment that's really healthy and you're just focused on the mission, you can deliver really well. That transcends sport, business, so clearly an entrepreneur, and then all the military side of things. So there's an empathy there as well, isn't there? There's ultimately backing each other and teamwork. It's huge. It's about your battle buddy. Who are you going to go into battle with? And who's going to have you back? And I said it's quite funny when I was in the military, I'd always say like you had your battle buddy on your right and your battle buddy on the left.

6:15And then I went into the corporate world and I was like, whoa, who's got my back because you didn't you suddenly had to start flipping your head around and checking what was going on and it's a different dynamic and that takes quite a lot of learning when you've been in quite a secure environment because in the military you kind of broken down to be built back up again and then you come into a different world where agendas are different it's less about this mission that you are aiming for with your mission command and everybody going in the same direction aligned and suddenly you can find yourself in a position where the agendas are so strong that you get disorientated and distracted.

6:53So I always try and focus where I'm heading on roles and remits that have a really good, you know, sort of sense of purpose and there's a clear mission and then I can excel. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast.

7:30Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. low energy unfocused foggy you might be dehydrated gatorade zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors great tasting hydration no matter where you're going shop now online or at retailers nationwide gatorade hydrates better than water is it in you symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration consult a health care professional if symptoms persist. So knowing that corporate world can be almost the opposite of what you're saying, smiling assassins, if you like, looking over your shoulder, how have you managed that?

8:13Because you brought teams together. The Invictus Games is a great example, for example, working with Prince Harry. And clearly all sorts of other people that you chose and brought in to be part of that team, that you don't want to be second-guessing their agendas. How have you managed it? How have you built teams? Again, I think it's down to the mission piece. So if you think about Invictus, that was all, you know in particular then doing the military exec lead for london and then going to america and being the ceo in the us games that was all about finding the right people and and then by picking because if you get a say in your team that also helps picking the right people people that have shared values and a common sense of purpose but are very diverse so and and ensuring that actually you've got the common understanding and again invictus was very purpose orientated it had a clear mission and a clear vision.

9:02And then it was all about aligning them to it. So I've been fortunate that I've gone from sort of leadership to leadership. And then with snow sports, you know, it's all about a, you know, I first came in, we had like four disciplines, had an incredible performance director at the time, a guy called Dan Hunt. And it was how do we, you know, effectively, you know, become a top five nation by 2030. Super punchy vision, not much snow or mountain rangers. how are we going to get there and the only way we were going to get there by was was by finding world-class talent world-class coaches and focusing in on how we could build a structure and a system that was high performance with a clear mission to become a top five nation by 2030 and we expanded the disciplines we now have 13 across Paralympic and Olympics we merged with para we rebranded to GB Snow Sports and we put the right pillars in place and we effectively brought everybody under one umbrella and created the family sense of trust and unity with the strong belief and unconquerable spirit that we were going to do it.

10:05It's inspiring listening to you. Another key thing that's really, really relevant right now is as a woman, as a leader in sport, how the progression of women in sport has just blown up over the last few years. And I say that as if it's just happened. There's been a lot of effort and work to go to that, but the Red Roses, the Lionesses winning their respective World Cups. How do you feel as a woman in the management side of things but seeing this all evolving and developing while you're shaping it I think it's really exciting I think you know I really I always used to try and find women I could look up to in particular I always looked for women that had children because I always knew I wanted children so I'd always think well if you can do that job and you can have children then it's possible and so I like the fact that I you know and a huge respect for people who don't have children as well it's choice it's personal choice but I like the fact that I can you know I can bring women on the journey it's so important some of my best staff are women right they're incredible they're better than me um i'm great men as well but i i just think it's so important that we showcase these women and i also have a little girl i've got three kids by a little girl who who you know i want her to see that anything's possible and there's no barriers out there it's really important it is i can relate to that for lots of reasons one i'm a dad of two teenage daughters so i want them to be able to feel they can achieve whatever their dreams and goals are and then you can't be what you can't see.

11:23No, exactly. So for too long. And it's so true. Even in entrepreneurship as well, probably 15 years ago, if you were asked the name of an entrepreneur, Richard Branson, it's not a woman. That all feels like it's changing. Well, it's funny. I mean, I, a recent example of that was there was an opportunity to stand for the president of the International Ski Federation. And there were many people who didn't think that was a great idea. but the reality was I thought it was a great idea because we you know the female across the structure in particular in snow sports as well can be very male dominated and so um whilst I knew it was going to be challenging you know I kind of went for it and you love a challenge proper competitiveness to you I love a challenge some can be slightly exhausting but I do love a challenge and so I went for it and actually what was great through the experience of going for it was I learned so much on that journey and I ended up, I was really privileged, I've now been elected as vice president, but I just felt that was really important, albeit it was quite intimidating, I'll be honest, at times, it's quite challenging and there were moments when I actually felt, you know, this is quite a boys club, if I'm honest, I'm not saying that negatively, it's quite a boys club to break into, so to then have a place and then be around a table where the current president, the newly appointed president is extremely good in ensuring that actually there is diversity of thought and gender, which is good.

12:53That is important. It puts you in a position of a role model, which is ultimately what we're describing here. Do you see yourself as that? I enjoy mentoring women, for example. So I enjoy, I have done quite a bit with Bath University on the Gold Scholar Programme for women who want to get into leadership positions in sport or in business and I like to think hopefully that I exude the right qualities to follow so opening doors I always try and you know I've had quite a very interesting career but there's been many bumps in the road and so I think those learnings have been brilliant to share and I like sharing them so because it's not like it's easy everyone just thinks oh my god how did you get there you're so lucky.

13:39That's the favourite phrase. You are so lucky. And you're like, well, there's a little bit of grafts got in there too. Late nights, sweat and tears. Yeah, absolutely. But I like being, I like to be a role model for my daughter and for others, just hopefully so that they feel that it's possible. Yeah. I admire you for that. I'm a champion of that. That was one of the reasons why I was looking forward to meeting and having this conversation. And the growth that comes from the character building, the bumps in the road, the obstacles, you know, you've had to negotiate and get round all sorts of things personally and in business and I want to bring sport into that at a young age I know when I played sport I learned how to win how to lose I learned the uh the competitive side of things managing managing ego being part of a team and PE is being phased out of schools more than I ever even realized my own kids they just didn't play the amount of sport I thought they would and I know you've done so much to bring sport into the world of sort of the the unable people if you like my point being fully able people are not playing sport at a level when they're young that develops this character and resilience that you've got why it that's not i am honestly the power of sport be that in recovery in in changing people's lives transforming people's lives bringing people together the competitive edge competitive spirit finding a common goal it's so important because it's very translatable into business and but what's fundamental if you just ignore all the health aspects but what's fundamental is the confidence that comes with that and I think that's really important so whether it's because you've been blown up and you actually need to come back to life and find a way through or whether it's because you're a young girl who effectively feels excluded or whether it's because you know you've got a disability from birth and you need to feel part of something it's so important that we keep those you know these opportunities as wide and as open as they possibly can be because it alongside obviously the health benefits that goodness knows our economy needs right because we'll have fit and healthy people going to work and staying off the state and benefits so but it's that whole healthy mindset um that's really important this is the thing that there's the the physical element of it being outside fresh air running climbing whatever it is you're doing but we know we know factually that that's good for the brain it's good for you know getting out and doing all that it's better for the mental health so if we know that i just find it really really strange that we're not actually really prioritizing that if you like i usually you learn more by doing sport half the time than i'm sure you do sitting in a classroom reading you know reading um books and being spoken at you could i there's so much to be gained by ensuring actually that we do have sports in the curriculum and we have it as a priority rather than you know something that's thought of as a second rate piece that needs to be included yeah another thing that i've just thought of well just just organic in this conversation is the storytelling that goes with sport you know we could between us come up with all sorts of stories that have inspired us or made you cry made you laugh or made you want to go and do something which goes back to role models as well and i just wonder where you sit in that context of storytelling at the heart of the leadership element of the snow sports in particular and how that how important that is uh it's so important i mean when uh when we said we were gonna you know become a top five nation by 2030 and we had one world i think prior to that we had a one world champion in like 1931 um nobody believed us really and and we had to showcase what we could do so when then you can stand up in front of somebody and say you know in the past eight years we've had over 300 podiums 10 world champions 19 crystal globes and the first ever gold olympic medal on snow of mine the heart first half pipe medal on snow and these are british athletes then it's quite powerful so you then look around and say you know you anything is possible when you face into it with the inconquerable spirit but you have to be given the opportunity to then go and grab it and so you know i think the storytelling and the showcasing is really important and one of my favorite stories on that is you know when i first came into the Invictus Games, there was a chap called Dave Henson.

17:52He'd been blown up in Afghanistan in 2011. He then learned to run, competed in the 2014 Invictus Games, and then he went on to win a bronze medal in the Rio Paralympics. And that in 2016, in Rio, that is showcasing sport at its best, right? And what's truly possible when you embrace it. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

18:29Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero Powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration.

19:09Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. It gives me goosebumps thinking about that. And fair play, you ultimately created that opportunity for someone that, dare I say, would never have had the opportunity to grow and do something like that without it. Well, it wasn't me. It was actually Harry's, it was Prince Harry's vision. And it was actually teamwork. We had a brilliant sort of founding team. He was, you know, passionate, still is passionate. And he was inspired to do something powerful. I had in parallel been setting up something called the Combined Services Adaptive Sports, which was getting men and women back into sports through using military facilities.

19:48And then it was like sort of a match made in heaven where we just went for it. I was the military exec lead. We partnered with the Royal Foundation. We set this vision to create the Invictus Games, which was a game for wounded, injured and sick servicemen and women, put it on the international stage. We invited 14 nations. We had nine disciplines. We went to the Olympic Park because we had the games in 2012. So we used that in 2014. And onwards and upwards. And here we are 26 nations um that are going to be coming to Birmingham where I'm the chair and we've got you know numerous sports we've got 550 competitors and they've all got that shared goal of you know and that shared sort of um opportunity to get together get back with their comrades and do sports so we've got this global cultural mix you know and and great family and it wouldn't we wouldn't be where we were if it wasn't for you know harry's commitment his passion you know he's the person getting and and and everything that that is always ensured that the world's watching and it's kept the invictus spirit alive yeah you've articulated that beautifully humanizing you and the plates that you spin they mentioned chair of this chair of that leading this i'm almost like imagining what a day in the life would be and how you manage that time and where you find time and what you do to rest or have some kind of time out yeah and everybody says that it's funny when I when somebody asks me can I do something then everyone you know you always have you always have the naysayers she's going to have the capacity to do that she just won't and actually it's about my own prioritization and how I do find those moments you know I I do I enjoy going for a run I enjoy going for a swim I enjoy going to the gym most of all I enjoy being with my family so family time at the weekend is really special and that's always like a apart from when we're in the season clearly you can't just turn your phone off but that's a no phone goes out you know goes on you can't I don't like having my phone with me when I'm watching the children doing sport or when I'm going to a play or whatever we're doing that's really important and that separates me away from everything else and the noise but it all comes down to prioritization and team and there's no way I could do all of that on my own it's good to share that right yeah well lack of ego there as well where you brought Prince Harry back in and so on if I bring you in you're like no I'm not doing this alone no there's it's about the team and the teams that I've had the pleasure of working with and I have had a bit of a saying who's kind of in it have been insane insane and so I wouldn't you know you always you always say don't you just make sure you work with people who are better than you and I swear by that.

22:33It's great to share that. And what about that kind of morning routine sort of things? There's more people that spin lots of plates and are successful and then swear by the early morning. What does that look like for you? Super early. I am super early. So I'm a super early riser. What is that routine? So this morning, 5.30, first thing I do is get a coffee. Then I go for a run. Then I come home. Then I have a shower. Then I literally check into the emails and just make sure it's squared away ensure elliot my youngest the 12 year old's got his uniform ready to go charlotte's ready to go i mean charlotte's now um just started homeschooling she's playing just plays off a handicap of plus two and golf bless her so she's driving down that route um and my eldest is um just about to start a phd god love him he's just turned 21 so so i've got a whole mix and he's just come home to start doing that so i've got a crazy family life got two big dogs as well and uh and a husband but i'll start checking in the emails and then the diary just takes over so i've got somebody brilliant that keeps me in track with the diary and then it's everything from you know a meeting first thing this morning that's that's talking about um what's happening with the banking license for for sport so where are we heading with that and i that's that's very much just a check-in and that's happening there's a team that's been set up to run with that my primary role as the CEO of GB Snow Sports okay so we've got the the programs are kicking in in November so we've got a um we've got World Cups happening in November across both Olympic and Paralympic there's a lot of stuff going on in snow sports that's keeping me hugely occupied and then surfing um so I actually had a surfing board earlier as well so I just had to check in with the surfing board it was a very brief one because we're looking at our selection policies so uh you know that that that's fitted into the the agenda i'm actually speaking at an event tonight um for invictus games at the grave now so i on the train here i was kind of just checking my speaking dates and making sure i was going to be okay with that and then so that i get time with my husband he's actually going to come to the dinner that i'm speaking at so we can travel home together that's smart yeah i'm doing something similar with my wife later yeah because And that's what we do.

24:43It's a conscious effort to make that time, make the plan. And so we know that we'll sit together at dinner. I know I'll get up and I'll do like half an hour. And then I'll come back, I get to spend time with him and they come home on the train. So it's not that bad. And then I get to pitch Invictus Games at the same time. So, you know, the diary is well structured so that I can get the most. But it's that whole saying of what's the crocodile nearest the canoe. And where are the priorities for the next? like well for today you know the week the month and just making sure that I I know which bits are important.

25:17We talked about how many things transcend and transferable from sport into say business and entrepreneurship how many of these sort of skills and things you're involved in almost like interrelatable cross-fertilized if you like where because you're involved in Invictus and a sporter and so on do you find actually that's making you a better businesswoman because you actually are so relevant and current. It's so true. I mean, that's why I can do what I can do. So that's, you know, I learn so much from the different elements. You know, sporter is very much hands off for me, just in an advisory capacity now.

25:51But what I've learned from my previous, you know, roles, I can lend quite a lot to. So when they're looking at actually, if we're going to be catering for athletes, if we're going to be catering for fans, you know for my Invictus games and the fan base that we had for Invictus or the selling of the tickets all of that it's really relevant at the same time you know I look at Invictus and everything I've done for Invictus and understanding you know actually what does it take to put the best events globally on so I can I can bring my previous history of Invictus to that but at the same time when I'm looking at snow sports and the opportunities for example creating a league you know what have I learned from Invictus that lends itself to actually doing something with events in snowsports that will generate capital that will enable us to grow so it's hugely intertwined and then I've taken the model of snowsports and I'm helping transfer that to surfing albeit in the chair capacity supporting the exec that I've brought in to then grow it and take it further yeah I thought I thought that might be because you've articulated it beautifully and just listening to you you are inspiring to listened to and there'll be many people that will see you as a role model and dare I say if you rewound to a younger version of you 18 19 20 aspiring to come into sport leadership what advice would you give to her I think you just have to go with your passion if you love something then it's so much easier to do it and honestly people end up doing remits and roles because they think they should rather than they really want to.

27:28And that can make it quite challenging. I think you've got to find, you know, avenues that you feel passionate about because it will bring out the best you. And I just chased my dreams. I literally chased my dreams. I got knocked back several times, I'm sure. And that continues. But I have, and it's cliched, but I've learned a lot more from the failures than I have the successes. And the reality is that it's only you that holds you back. It's a powerful message that and of course that's your personal experience. You've got all those stories and those relationships with all the contestants and people involved in Invictus where they've ultimately potentially suffered something catastrophic, something life-changing, to then be able to prove themselves again, build up again and that compounds right, being around those people must be so inspiring.

28:19Well if you watch a triple amputee swimming 200 meters in the aquatic center then I don't think you can ever you know look at yourself in the mirror again and think that that's not you know this is too difficult or that's not possible you just don't yeah it's hugely inspiring and actually they the lovely thing about it is the ripple effect it's like throwing a pebble in the water and the ripples just go because you know I can you can introduce you to somebody else who actually has had a far more challenging journey one could suggest and it that inspires them and then they inspire somebody else you're always going to find somebody and when we had a bit of a banter you know in that if you were a single amputee you were way better off than a double if you were a double you were way better off than a you know it's like a scale if you're blinded in in with an improvised explosive device then go you are having a really tough gig you know but it was and it sounds like I'm being flippant but I'm not it's just that that humor and that almost dark humor really inspires people to just get on with it.

29:22And it is, it's all about just go do it. I mean, if I had a fault, it's probably impatience. There's a resilience grit there, isn't there? It's quite a British thing to use humour in context, but done right, it works. You just sort of emphasised that. So true. I mean, we were joking, I was joking with my husband actually yesterday morning about the way that when you're going through officer training, and I'm pretty sure I'm not dissing it, but I'm pretty sure it's eased off quite a bit. Because when you were going through that period, whether it was your actually, you know, dirt on your shoes or my hair sticking out the bun net or whatever it was, and the sergeant just shouting at you nonstop to get your act together.

30:03And I said, it was brutal. I mean, it was just brutal sleep deprivation, being yelled at, getting your kit together, just, you know, throwing you out into the desert and just figuring stuff out is it's quite it is it's something right and I was saying I look back and and actually the resilience I learned through that journey was insane and the resilience you know pace then as well um that I now hopefully share is is because there was that there was some unbelievable training and some unbelievable people that helped me get there it's all part of the character building isn't it I'm trying to have these conversations with my my two daughters about the fact that the things that don't go right that will consistently happen.

30:45However it's going for you now, something's going to go wrong. And that's where you get stronger. That's where the lessons are. I always say what's for you won't go by you. And it's so true. I like that. It's so true. Because, and if it's not meant to be, you have to just have faith that it's not meant to be. But it's the parallels in business as well as the things that don't go right, the failings, if you like, which is there even such a thing as failing? Because that's where you learn and grow. And ultimately, you can be successful. And just going with that flow, there are so many things you have done that you've been successful with.

31:15How do you define success?

31:40Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Low energy, unfocused, foggy. You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

32:18It's the quick wins, I think, or it's the small wins. For me, I don't think you can put your whole hope on just getting everything right because you never will. So success for me is changing the dial, no matter how far you change that dial. And if you've set a vision to get so far, then it's the quick wins on the journey. You know, and it's almost the test and iterate for me. I think success is the fact that, you know, have I still got a smile on my face by the time I finish what I'm doing? Then that's success. If it's making me miserable, then that's definitely the opposite. I like that. It's being real in the moment, isn't it?

32:53You're not thinking too far ahead. But on that, so much that you've done is legacy building. You're changing snow sports right now, completely changing surfing. Where do you want to go with your legacy if this was a conversation or someone was talking about you in x amount of years time what would that look like i think it would be you know putting snow truly putting snow sports on on the global map um getting our first podium in in uh on the global stage for surfing um having the best ever invictus games in birmingham um you know in 27 with all the learnings that we had having incredibly healthy the happy children still being married.

33:37And, you know, ultimately just leaving the place in a better place than I found it. That's beautiful. Family aside, because I know how important family are to you, rightly so, so much you've achieved, MBE, OBE and all the different things you're doing. What do you think is your greatest achievement? I think it was actually lastminute.com stepping in for on the um on the western stage as the narrator for girlfriends which was uh I mean that for me that was insane and getting a five-star rating for being the most authentic Greek captain I think the fact that the people that were actually giving the credits didn't realize I was actually an ex-Greek captain and I wore my own uniform so I was quite at home so no prep no time thinking about it and then you get a five-star rating for doing something you'd never done before in front of a live audits yeah on for three days it was a Friday it was a Saturday matinee and a Saturday evening and a Sunday four four shows I did I had a week to be fair I had four days prep I got the script on the Monday where I was tested I gave my whatever they call it you know you go and read your script and they say yes or no but they didn't really have much choice I think they just went with me well at least you know there's another corner one of many things you could do if you chose to alongside the things you're already doing I feel really privileged to be having this conversation because you are spinning so many plates and so busy.

34:57But we've run out of time. But thank you so, so much for having this conversation. You are a true inspiration. Thank you for having me. Have you heard that McDonald's spicy chicken McNuggets made with spicy tempura and a blend of aged cayenne are back? Remember to grab a few extra napkins. For a limited time at participating McDonald's. experience a membership that backs what you're building with american express business platinum unlock over four thousand dollars in business and travel value annually with statement credits on select purchases from brands like dell chat gpt business hilton and adobe and other benefits american express business platinum there's nothing like it based on total potential value of statement credits on select purchases and other benefits enrollments required monthly and other limits and terms apply.

35:48Learn more at americanexpress.com slash business dash platinum.