Georgia Harrison MBE | From Survivor to Law Changer | Extraordinary Life Stories

0:00If you are going to be someone that puts yourself in the public eye, you have to have a fixed skin. You have to be able to look at the things that people say to you and be like, that's not really a reflection of me though. Who is Georgia Harrison? Probably most well known for being on Love Island, but also for changing the law in the UK to help protect women around image-based sexual abuse. Which he got awarded an MBE for. I would say it was one of the biggest spoken about revenge porn cases of its time. You know, everything happens for a reason and maybe me having to experience probably the hardest thing I've had to experience in my life was meant to happen because it's helped so many people.

0:35Talk to me about how you've gone about visualisation, maybe right back to when you're going on TV as well. Has that helped you face into a situation that might be intimidating? Well, I'm a big believer in manifestation and I talk about it a lot when I am doing my speeches. I actually started thinking about The Only Way is Essex when I first got the book and I genuinely believe that I did manifest it into my reality. as human beings we can put our attention on anything at any time millions of things throughout the day especially with our findings there's so many things but who is in control of that attention we are never heard that articulated so well it's awesome i i'll call you out as a role model there

1:23thank you for joining me Thanks for having me. Looking forward to this. Tell me, who is Georgia Harrison? So I would say Georgia Harrison is a TV presenter, a campaigner, someone who's had a lot of fun in her life, probably most well known for being on Love Island, but also for changing the law in the UK to help protect women around image-based sexual abuse. Which you got awarded an MBE for. Yeah, I did. Shall we start there? Yeah. Because that's pretty serious. So that's an MBE with someone that brings Love Island in the same conversation. No disrespect to anyone, but you know what I mean? There's an element of like, there's real meaning, purpose that's gone in there.

1:59So talk me through how that came about. So, yeah, I think a lot of the headlines were like, oh, the first ever Love Islander to receive an MBE. And it was quite shocking to a lot of people. But essentially, in around 2020, I became a victim of image-based sexual abuse. an ex-partner of mine filmed us having sex without me knowing and went on to sell it on the internet even though I warned him if it was ever to be seen anywhere there would be serious implications and I would go to the police. Today I would say that that footage has been seen by I would say at least 20 million people we're still finding it on sites now and whenever we find it on certain sites it would be like two million people have viewed it and you know you just have to sort of park that and try not to think about the numbers, I guess.

2:45So after that, I went on to take him to call, successfully managed to get a conviction. And I would say it was one of the biggest spoken about revenge porn cases of its time. There hadn't really been a high profile case where the person involved hadn't given permission for the content to go out. And because of that, it went across the UK, people speaking about it. It was on the news. It was spoken about globally. It was on Sky News. it had a much bigger impact than I ever anticipated it to have. I was just looking for my own personal justice. I wasn't thinking that it was going to change history.

3:19And around that time, basically, there was an intent to cause distress loophole. So what that meant was, if you wanted to take perpetrator to court, if you wanted to prove that what they had done was wrong and was unconsented, you have to have some sort of evidence to say they meant to cause me distress. So I'd need like a text sort of threatening me or a reason that they'd done it to get back at me. Premeditated. Premeditated, basically, which was ridiculous because nowadays, one, a lot of people are doing it just for monetary gain. And also a perpetrator could just be like, I was just having a laugh.

3:51I didn't think it was going to hurt her feelings. And if you didn't have proof that they had understanding that it was going to impact you, then you didn't have a leg to stand on. And I never really got that. It's a bit like, all right, so if I throw a brick through your window, it doesn't matter what my attention is. at the end of the day, I'll smash the window and I need to pay for that. Damage has been done, right? I know. Double glazing as well. It's quite expensive nowadays. So I just couldn't believe it. And as I began to move forward and recover from what I'd gone through, I was getting a lot of messages from other women who were like, I'm so proud of you.

4:23I'm so happy. Unfortunately, because of the intent to cause the stress loophole, I never had a leg to stand on. I never got my justice. And it just felt really, really unfair. So I began campaigning for it to be changed. And I think within seven or eight months, I got called into the Ministry of Justice and they told me that they'd removed the intent to cause distress loophole. So ever since then, I've been doing a lot of work in online safety to help protect women, younger women as well. And that is basically what I got the MBE for, all of the work after my court case. So, yeah, it started from a really terrible experience, but it went on to hopefully change the world to make it a better place for people like my daughter and yours.

5:04Exactly. I was going to say that I've got two daughters growing up in the world that you've potentially changed for the better with them, their friends, their peers, because what I'm picking up from you there, and congratulations, because it's well-deserved and it's bigger than you, right? You had a shocking experience there that you then, I'm going to use the word early in this conversation, brave. I was thinking about everything I was reading, watching, people that were talking to me about you. That word brave, you know, you had something happen to you and you thought, I'm going to fight for this.

5:32And then that evolution of your fight and campaigning is far bigger than just your own. And I think that's something to really capture. The outpouring from people that perhaps almost gave you some momentum for you to realise that you weren't quite so alone in something. How big was that? How many people have been a victim, if you like, of this? Oh, it was massive. Actually, I work a lot with the main revenge porn helpline charity. And they said after my case, their calls went up something like six or seven times the amount. Like they had to hire new staff to deal with the amount of calls that come in.

6:03Because I think there were so many women that it had happened to, you know, they'd had their videos or pictures, even if they were involved in the filming, you know, you have to give consent to send these things around, sent around all the time. And I think they were always told like, oh, just get over it or it's not a big deal or like shut up. It is what it is. And I think me sort of being like, actually, I'm not just going to get over it. It's not just something that can get swept under the rug. It's illegal and it's disgusting. It's a violation as well, right? Isn't it? To find imagery and of course there's deep fake that's going on now where it's not even you.

6:36Someone is prepared to do that and put out against your permission, that is a proper violation. Yeah, and it is. And nobody deserves that, male or female. It's completely wrong. And I think when people saw me stand up for myself and get a guilty conviction, so many women were like, do you know what? This has actually happened to me and I think I'm going to do something about it. You empowered them. Yeah, I empowered them. And do you know what? They don't just reach out to me about image-based sexual abuse. I've had women say, you know, because of you, I took a rapist to call. Because of you, I left my domestic abuser or I had the strength to like stand in the witness box and explain what had happened to me.

7:10And actually by me just speaking about my own self and dealing with my own issues, it means a lot of bad people did get taken off the streets because it gave a lot of women the strength to be like, do you know what? I think I can do this. That's awesome. There must have been a fulfillment there for you that I'm going to bring in the word influencer because I'd say that on the basis of that you were really early into Love Island when it was huge. It was massive. What, were we 10 years ago now for that? Yeah, for Love Island 10 years ago. So the platform, if you like, that that builds and has built for you to then have, if you like, an audience.

7:46The fulfillment piece that then has actually, you know, without ever wanting to have been in that position, if that makes sense, but your articulation, the intelligence that's come through to be able to be brave enough to navigate campaign change something must must feel good oh it does it feels amazing like i'm really proud of the things i've achieved and i can look back in time and think you know everything happens for a reason and maybe me having to experience probably the hardest thing i've had to experience in my life was meant to happen because it's helped so many people and yeah like after it i had to step into so many different environments that I never anticipated to be in I had to go on live news channels I had to go into Downing Street walk into Parliament I had to have conversations with people that I was probably a bit concerned that I might not have like the intelligence or the knowledge to be speaking about I didn't know legislation inside out and stuff like that but one thing I always try and tell people is just just go for things just like absolutely just step into the unknown just have the balls to turn up and things will always sort of work out and you'll always be happy that you did you know you'll either win or you'll learn something but you'll never regret just going for something and I think I could have come out of that situation and been like I can't go and meet with MPs I can't speak to the Prime Minister like I'm just I'm gonna make myself look silly and I used to just be like you know what I'll just go and see what happens and time and time again things have just seemed to work out for me and we've been able to collaborate in a way that's helped a lot of people.

9:13I love that love that and again through circumstances you never would have wished you a much stronger a more resilient version of yourself than you could ever imagine. Finding yourself in rooms with people that at one time would have felt intimidating and they're respecting you. And that bravery piece that I sort of bring in, I want to bring confidence in as well, because it feels like, you know, you were 19 when you first went on TOWIE. That's proper young. And just, but dealing with, I guess, what becomes big fame and then judgment and external kind of you know judgment if you like how have you dealt with that first of all I think I had quite a thick skin like I came from an East End family and I was always brought up around quite a lot of banter and always just told to you know be able to take a joke and I think if you are going to be someone that puts yourself in the public eye you have to have a thick skin you have to be able to look at the things that people say to you and be like that's not really a reflection of me though and you have to be able to roll with it or you are going to drown in it you have to know that you're someone that can take criticism that can laugh it off and like you said is a little bit confident enough in themselves to be like I know myself and no matter what you guys say it's not going to change the way that I feel about myself yeah so I think having a thick skin really really helped me so much came at you young yeah and you're still young but there's a huge amount of experience and perspective that I can feel now from you what you've been through but going back to that 19 year old mainstream tv when everyone's still watched tv and then dealing with that but which you've kind of answered, right?

10:42There's who you surround yourself with and not taking yourself too seriously so that you can take the... Predator Badlands, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Here, you're not the predator. You're the prey. Prey. Prey. Prey. Prey. Prey. Critics are saying it's epic, stunning, and breathtaking. Many have come here. none have survived Predator Badlands now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus rated PG-13 yeah not taking yourself too seriously and I think as well something that I've been looking back on recently that I've realised I have experienced from quite a young age is where we went on telly so young you had to be sort of hyper aware of the way that you held yourself in public in a way that most teenagers probably wouldn't need to so I think it does grow you like quite quickly like before I was 19 I definitely would embarrass myself so much more like I'd go out in public I wouldn't care what anyone thought I wouldn't care who's listening but after a little while you get to the point where you're very aware that people are aware that you're in the room and I think at first after about five years or so it actually dulled my personality a little bit like it made me be like nervous to just be funny and be myself in case something went the wrong way and I got a bit of awareness about that after around five years and then ever since then I've been a bit more like do you know what find out I don't know if I can swear here but it's just like don't worry so much about things just be yourself and like don't worry too much about people being aware of you being in the room all the time but that was something odd to deal with from such a young age so with that perspective and the journey went on from from being yourself to then feeling perhaps like there were eyes on you to then dulling yourself down to find if the most popular career choice in the next generation coming through is to be an influencer.

12:36Yeah. They probably don't really understand what that means and the graph that goes into it as well. And I want to bring that into play because everybody I know that is in any way an influencer is working so hard producing content. And there's an element of how you show up and that self-awareness piece. It's really interesting you use that self-awareness piece to present yourself. What advice would you give them? So I think it was one of my little sisters that actually said, oh, I want to be an influencer when I'm older and I was like, don't do it. Like, just don't do it. And I know it's a bad thing to say, but I'm like, if you can choose anything, I just feel like that's such a tough market.

13:11And one thing I can give myself credit for is from going on TOWIE at 19 to going on Love Island at 21, during which I was only on there for two weeks. I came out with 800 ,000 followers, right? But people don't realise that to stay relevant, to keep your social media channels going, you have to really fight at it. You have to be watching every day for algorithm changes. You have to be studying things within social media. You have to be constantly giving out authentic content. Because if you're not, you will lose the people that are following you. And I think it's so oversaturated now. Whereas I was lucky enough to be in that little bit of an era where I have a big enough following that it's easier to sustain.

13:51But if my little sister was like, I want to start from the bottom stand and be an influencer. Honestly, I think it is so tough. and I think there's so many things she could do that one she wouldn't have as many people judging her she wouldn't have to worry about saying something wrong when she's so young and everything going a bit up getting cancelled for instance I just think there's easier jobs but for anyone that does want to be an influencer you have to study it and I don't think it's just about you know taking a picture in front of that tree over there like it used to be when I first come up the tower I could have done a picture my big toe and it would have got like 60 ,000 likes but now I I actually listen to podcasts that teach you about algorithm changes, teach you about all sorts of different things in TikTok, Instagram, what's trending, what's the best content to be doing now.

14:37For instance, we've moved into a bit of an era where the best thing to be doing is anything that's forwarded. So anything relatable. So if I put something up and your wife sees it and she wants you to know about it and she forwards it to you, that's what's going to be really popular right now. But I know that because I've listened to podcasts, studying the algorithm. Educating yourself. educating myself as much as possible and then figuring out the best way to use your time to get content as quick as possible and spread it across all different social platforms because as well we've seen a lot of social platforms come and go yes i always try and keep at least three different ones so at the moment i'm putting most of my energy into tiktok instagram and snapchat but also i'm now being forced by my agent to do linkedin because it's really up and coming and i've also got someone running a facebook for me because they have a good monetization scheme so I've got everything spread to the point where my content can go across different platforms and if one was ever to just take a massive dip or disappear which is always possible I still have the others to fall back on yeah I love that it's a deliberate attempt to stay relevant and yeah have different content and on that congratulations on being a recently becoming a mother thank you where will that where will you go with that in terms of being really visible about um kind of ultimately bringing your child into the world of being an influencer if you like so with that I mean it was a big decision actually having my baby on my social channels because I know a lot of people are choosing to blur out the face and it was something me and my partner have spoken about as a young baby we're happy to have her on Instagram within the social platforms and stuff but I think as she gets a bit older and she's going to school and you know she actually has her own personality and she's more recognizable that's something we may have to reconsider because it's up to her at that point isn't it at the moment she's just like a little smiling little blob but when she's like six or seven I would never want to put her on something and maybe she got teased at school or she didn't feel comfortable about it or someone could recognize her and you know see her at her school so I think we're just taking it year by year constantly trying to navigate it but actually stepping into motherhood has been great for me because I finally got a new niche I'm not going to lie there's so many influencers that are like the fitness influencer the makeup influencer the fashion influencer I'm so ADHD I like something different every single week one day I'm promoting my skirt the next day I'm wearing eyeliner the next day I'm dressed as like cousin it from myself for a milkshake in McDonald's because I also like prank stuff and I find all of that stuff really entertaining I don't like to take myself too seriously and I'm always very aware that I've been very all over the place and I think being a mother that's now sort of the content that I'm concentrating on and I've still got other bits around it but I finally found something that I really love and I can really relate to so many people about because I already had such a strong female following because of my work in the past so it's been perfect coming into alignment yeah you mentioned ADHD are you diagnosed ADHD yeah are you so am I yeah that's a relatively new thing for me but there's a there's an energy there's a vibration off you where you can spin plates that probably would intimidate some people you can you can take a lot on and so there's chaos potentially elsewhere but in context of just getting a lot done and making a lot happen it feels like you're very capable with that definitely and as I've got older and I became more aware of how I am neurodiverse, the chaos minimizes and you're able to like strengthen it.

17:52Whereas when I was younger, I think it was more of a hindrance to me. Yeah, especially when you mix it with partying, alcohol and all the rest of it. A lot of people don't make it through that. A lot of people get the addiction element to it. It sounds like you've managed that. Yeah, I was a big partier when I was younger. Yeah. The version of Georgia that I've got sitting in front of me now feels really composed and content without in any way being arrogant. I feel like there's been a lot of visualization. Even just talking about how you'll go about sort of the socials, if you like, being a mother now.

18:24There's a thought process of how you'll do it and you can almost see it. Talk to me about how you've gone about visualization, maybe right back to when you're going on TV and so on. Has that helped you face into a situation that might be intimidating? Yeah, so I'm a big believer in manifestation and I talk about it a lot when I am doing my speeches because I do speeches now for like finance companies like all across the UK with my agency and it's basically speaking about resilience but also the tools I've used in my life and the tools that I genuinely believe have helped me achieve the things I have so when I was like younger I think up until the age of about 17 I was really quite a negative thinker I just didn't think we had any control of our reality whatsoever I thought life was just on autopilot and it just sort of happened to you and I got to the point where everything was going wrong and I just wasn't in a good place at all so my best friend gave me the book The Secret and that is when I started to manifest and I started to change the way that I believe things and I think when that book first come out it was very like standard if you think about something you're going to get it like and if that was true I would have driven here in my Ferrari today you know that's not true at all but what it taught me was to believe in myself to put my focus onto something and believe that I could attract it and I actually started thinking about The Only Way I As Essex when I first got the book and I genuinely believe that I did manifest it into my reality and the more I began to manifest things the more I began to believe in it and I think what I try and teach people is if you really want to be something you can't believe that you're not good enough for that opportunity so when it comes to like goal setting, manifesting, visualisation I will sit there and I will visualise myself getting a certain job, how I'll act when I get it, who I'll be when I get there and when I do get there because I visualized it that many times I'm the person that's right for the job I'm the person that is going to get the job because whoever I'm sitting down with is like wow she's got that energy to work here whereas if I hadn't visualized it then I wouldn't get it and one thing I always like to concentrate on is as human beings we can put our attention on anything at any time millions of things throughout the day especially with our phones there's so many things but who is in control of that attention we are and before that I never thought of that so it would just go to negative things what I didn't like what was annoying me that day or what was in the fridge whereas once I started reading the secret I started looking at the things I'm grateful for and when you set your goals then in the back of your mind you're always looking to put your perception on things that take you closer to them goals whereas if you don't have them you're just walking around and you're not going to see that thing but once you're thinking about it you see it and you go oh I'm going to go near that I'm going to say yes to that because I believe that that's going to get me closer to being the next version of myself and that is what manifestation is it's just believing in yourself and having a really set goal on where you want to go and you might not always get to that exact point but you'll land somewhere in between whereas if you don't bother you're only ever going to stay where you are right now never heard that articulated so well it's awesome I'll call you out as a role model there, like that, I'll play that or ask my daughters to listen to that because you're having those conversations in finance and business places, but that is so relatable to all of us, right?

21:37Be the best person of yourself and we choose what we do with our time. And there's never been more distraction right now, right? You know, you've mentioned all the social media platforms that we can go on and scroll, then there's computer games and there's countless documentaries you can watch. Flipping that back to you and bringing in kind of mental and physical fitness, you look in really good shape, particularly months after just having a baby. So I feel like the consistency there to try and keep in good shape. And I want to know how and what works for you to keep both physically and mentally fit.

22:10See, a lot of people have been asking me how I've lost all the weight after having a baby as well. And I was thinking about it. And I think it's, I'm very good at distracting my mind and making sure that my mind will do what I want it to do rather than what it wants to do. And I think that's how I've managed to like navigate losing weight and stuff like that, because it all comes down to meditation. I think if you can control your thoughts, then you can control pretty much anything in your life. So like, say I'm walking around at 12 o 'clock and I have a thought come into my head, like I really fancy a big bowl of pasta, right?

22:44I know for a fact, if I eat a bowl of pasta at 12 o 'clock, when I'm looking after my baby and I'm also working, I'm going to completely slump and I'm not going to do any of the things that I want to do. So it's not that I don't have those faults, I don't have those cravings, but I can have awareness of what's actually going to be better for me because I think a lot of things that come into our head aren't necessarily us. It's just autopilot or it's just something that you've done in the past. So I'll be like, look, I've acknowledged that I'm hungry. I've acknowledged that I fancy just having a bowl of pasta, but actually what would be better for me now is to just go have a nice salad, go have a coffee and do what I can to carry on through the day and if I do that in the long run all of those micro decisions throughout my day are going to make me happier healthier and better in the long run because if I have an unhealthy lifestyle I just will not be able to manage what I do and I think if I have a goal and I want to do something I just if I'm in control of it I will do it I've run marathons I've done a celebrity cage fight where I've won that it's like if I have my mindset on something I go all or nothing and that might be a little bit of the ADHD as well.

23:54I was just going to say the hyper focus. Yeah the hyper focus. Yeah if you set yourself a goal you're probably relentless. Yeah I'm like I'm just relentless and I always get like funny with numbers as well and I don't really understand that. I've never really spoken about it before but young when I was younger I would do things like I don't know tap yourself four times if you're going to do something and if I'm running if I set a time that I'm running for I can't help it my brain will run at that time. So like if I've set what times I'm eating and what I'm going to eat, I just know it in my mind and like I won't do anything but that because I've set the times and the numbers.

24:29That's a whole manifesting thing though, isn't it? It's almost like you're tapping that in. Yeah, four times. And then make it happen. Yeah, but seriously, along with the huge relentless drive, if you like, and focus, again, it makes you formidable. What have you got as a longer term goal that you'd still... Because there's so much you have done. Just mentioning those things there, let alone things we haven't mentioned. But facing forwards, is there something you'd like to achieve or do that you haven't done yet? I don't know. I'm still figuring out what I want to do. Like, I definitely want to push on with my career.

25:03And I definitely still want to do a lot of work with women's rights. I'm doing like a stunt on Tuesday with Women's Refuge outside Parliament. I'm taking the baby. But in terms of my longer term career, I think I would like to do presenting myself. I'd like to maybe do radio. I do still love doing documentaries when it comes to television because I'm very good at chatting, I'm very good at getting on with things, but it's very nice when you're doing something where all the organisation is done for you. So I think just see what happens, like, yeah, but definitely something to do with presenting.

25:32Yeah, the communication element, your communication skills are phenomenal. So presenting, especially something that you are passionate about. And just to flip that back to the... So I didn't want to just completely end the conversation around how you campaigned and of course made changes, but it feels like there's more that could be done there. It feels like there's a lot more that could be done there. So two kind of questions. One, surely you could go into that space and be an influence within it with your communications. And what else needs to be done to make it a safer space? Because it's still quite new.

26:03I was just listening to you earlier where there's potential sort of content that goes on. And you sort of said, well, people say, well, just get over it and so on. But it's really, really, you know, harmful to the point where, you know, there's probably kids that don't get over it, if you like. They kind of hide away and don't want to be seen again because of stuff that's been created out of them. Oh, yeah. I mean, I can't imagine going through what I went through when I was in school. I wouldn't have survived. I would not have survived because you're just in such a different space when you're in school.

26:31And the world feels like it's ending when something like that happens. so after I did change the law I went on to do two more documentaries of ITV which was looking into the porn industry looking into deep fakes looking into nudify apps which are basically for anyone that doesn't know an app where you can take a picture of any woman and with a click of the button it will take her clothes off and show you what she would look like naked and it is so realistic and all body types are different and it really does we done it on me when we done the documentary and it was very very similar to what I do look like naked scary right really scary and I met of a young girl who had it done to her in school and everyone believed it and she said to me Georgia what was I meant to do to prove that that wasn't me was I going to flash the whole school there was no way of proving it no matter what she said no matter what she did they all just believed because you know what kids are like they want to believe it but this was a picture for her.

27:26So since doing that documentary, the laws have changed. Deepfake has become illegal. So has the nudifier apps. And recently I've done a little talk with ITV News where they're also changing the law to hold platforms accountable. So essentially the law is changing where if platforms have unconsented footage, whether it's real or fake on their platforms, the owners have two days to take it down after it's reported. And if they don't, they'll lose 10 % of their annual turnover so it's the first time in history that actually the owners of the platforms are going to be held accountable but to the point where it is going to be so bad for them that they have to put money into compliance or essentially they probably will lose their whole company the only thing is all of this is just legislation that's changed and we're yet to see actually the effects that it has i think for me if i could change anything and if i could have gone back to the person that I was when I experienced what I experienced, what infuriated me the most was that there was people that owned these big porn platforms, social media platforms, who were making an absolute fortune off of all this unconsented stuff.

28:31And they knew it was happening. They turned a blind eye to it. There's no incentive to stop, is there? No incentive to stop. And they purposely didn't put in the structure into their company so they wouldn't see it because they didn't want to see it because then there was proof that they had seen it. So for me, what really needs to change is these people do need to get held accountable and they need to be like, do you know what? Victims matter, individuals matter, and I'm going to do what I can to make sure that people are safe. But at the moment, they know if they can keep some unconsented stuff on their platforms, it keeps the viewers in.

29:00Just listening to you then, and again, it's a pleasure to listen to you, actually. When I framed the question, I actually inadvertently said kids. It affects full-grown women and so on. But actually, just by then you answering that through a kid's point of view, surely there's an education piece there. Because there's two things there. There's girls need to be warned early. Girls and boys need to be warned early that this is happening and that this could happen. But also, is there not an education piece that at any one time, particularly if it's male orientated that is influencing this happening, that they see the damage and they learn from the experiences that then actually quite simply the education piece early, maybe through schools or, you know, people giving talks like yourself would raise the awareness it's like that's clearly not not a nice thing to do yeah well I've sat in with some new educational pieces within schools I've been invited to a couple of schools and they're doing misogynistic workshops so it's not specifically on image-based abuse but it's on all sorts of abuse that happens between males and females and it's just trying to teach women how to protect themselves whilst also teaching men what heart what's harmful for women because for these young kids they're not just learning things from their parents anymore they're learning things from the things that they're seeing online and unfortunately there are misogynistic algorithms that are feeding these poor kids things like Andrew Tate things like porn that has like strangulation and stuff like that stuff that they don't understand and that's impacting them so I think the best way to prevent it is parents having conversations with the children but not all children live in a home where the parents are going to do things like that so school is really important but I genuinely don't think children should have phones I don't think they should have access to social media up until the age of 16, maybe have phones to do whatever you need to do, you know, speak to your parents, make sure you're safe, get back and forth from school.

30:49But I don't think social media at all is necessary for children until after the age of 16. And in a lot of countries, they are making it illegal. And personally, I would love that to be the case for when my daughter goes through school, because I don't want the men around her to be exposed to misogyny and to then react to that and act like that in schools, because that's what they've seen. But I also don't want her to get bullied i don't want her to have you know a situation where you know maybe they have taken pictures and it's been sent like all of it just opens up so much trauma and so much issues for children who are still just figuring out who they are and i hope that actually the government one they do completely ban it for children and you know they can learn about social media in school they can learn how to use it and then when they get to 16 they'll be ready to do so but before that age it's like they just need to learn who they are This episode is brought to you by Indeed.

31:41Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs. So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

32:11As a chef, I know flavor doesn't begin in the kitchen. It begins on the land. And West Home's nature-led Australian Wagyu is a story written in the landscape of northern Australia. Cooking is storytelling, and West Home Wagyu carries a story of northern Australia itself. Raw, powerful, and deeply authentic. It's a testament to the passion and care raised in the rhythm of northern Australia. I'm Chef Maylin from ADA Club in Los Angeles and I invite you to visit Westhome.com slash Maylin to learn more and taste a story only Westhome nature-led Australian Wagyu can tell that's W-E-S-T-H-O-L-M-E dot com slash M-E-I-L-I-N You're so right it's been talked about a lot more and as you know I've got 14 and 16 year old daughters right now who do have access to it and so on and time will tell they use it very differently me and I think that's that's probably the key but the reality is that if we had been the parents that said you're not using it they can turn around and say well they are and they can and they're allowed to if everyone's actually not allowed to there's no peer pressure oh I would never I've not got the balls if it's not illegal there's no way I'm saying to my kids you're brave you're super brave there's no way I'm saying you can't have your phone I wouldn't but I would love it to be something that actually all children don't have access to until they're ready for I would I never want to be the one that tells my girl she can't have what all of her mates have.

33:37No. I just, I've not got the balls for it. And that is, that's one of the main conversations you can imagine in my friendship group through other parents of similar age kids. It's what we talk about the most because it's the one piece that's really out of your control. And then the algorithms are feeding stuff that you're just like, no. Yeah. I'm really open with my kids and they'll come up to and talk about something. Where have you got that from? on TikTok or something. And it's so confusing, I think, for the men. And what I don't like is when people say, right, we're going to have these misogynistic workshops for young boys in schools.

34:12Sometimes people really kick off and they go, what about the women? It's not fair to do it to the men. And there isn't algorithms where there's a woman sitting on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, telling all young women that they should mistreat men. There just isn't algorithms. If there are, they're not very strong. but the strength of the misogynistic algorithm on the internet is horrifying and we are not saying men are worse than women and men deserve to be treated differently than women within these workshops what we're actually saying is the risk is great for men the confusion is greater for young men they're watching people get put on a pedestal who are actually really horrible people and it's not fair to them to not teach them a different way and not teach them that actually the best way to be a real man and an attractive man is to be a gentleman.

35:00It doesn't mean don't be masculine. It just means show your masculinity in a different way. And they deserve to be taught that because they deserve the chance to be the amazing young men that they are going to turn into. And it's not fair that the internet could derail them from that. No, there's a massive crisis of identity there, isn't there? And then the fact that this is promoted in the wrong places that rises to the top and then the kids are following it and I think you know the Lost Boys report the Centre for Social Justice put that out in the beginning of last year 2025 and I deep dived into that and I'm going to call you out as a really positive role model here because one of the damning stats was the lack of role models particularly in the home and what I mean by that is fatherless families which is happening more and more in the UK so then the lads don't have the father perhaps guiding them and in any one way teaching them how to treat a woman and then social media becomes the filler and then as you eloquently said the wrong people are at the top giving that information just on that role model side of things you'd be phenomenal at that if you could immerse yourself into schools and so on so i'll help in any way possible there and wish you as much success with that side of things and on that i want to i ask everybody that i talk to in the show is what their definition of success is.