Nicola Chapman | From YouTube Pioneer to Surviving MS | Extraordinary Life Stories

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0:44Need assistance? No problem. Get 24-7 professional answers and live help and access support by phone, email and in-platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more at schwab.com slash trading. This was the question. I was like, oh my God.

1:03Nicola Chapman:It's your hardest one. There's no way you can answer it without sounding like a knob. Tell me, who is Nick Chapman? I asked ChatGPT to tell me who I am. And it said that I am one of the original influencers. A pioneer is what it said. I'm a makeup artist, but there's a way bigger story than that. All I knew was the only thing he's ever given me in life is MS. So now I have this disease that's slowly killing me. The only thing he's ever given me. There's a steelyness to it, 100%. I am quite steely. But I also think people get lost in it. Like, how much do you need? I look at celebrities and I think, when's enough enough?

1:40In the early days of YouTube, you'd put a video up, and you'd upload every Thursday, and instantly be like, 100 ,000, da-da-da-da-da-da, and you'd see the views going up. And it was your community. It was so different to how it is now.

1:54Nicola Chapman:The swag area, like, this is flying, making money viral and so on, but I guess there was a point where you dropped off. Yeah, that's true. How did you manage that?

2:14Nicola Chapman:Sorry to interrupt. I've never asked this before, but if you can subscribe and follow, that will allow me to keep bringing extraordinary guests onto the show. Now let's get back to it.

2:26Nicola Chapman:Nick, welcome. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to this conversation. Me too. Tell me, who is Nick Chapman? This was the question. I was like, oh my God. It's your hardest one. There's no way you can answer it without sounding like a knob. There's no possible way. I reckon you can. I asked ChatGPT to tell me who I am. And it said that I am one of the original influences. A pioneer is what it said through social media. but I'm a makeup artist started social media before when it was three years of YouTube so I've been doing it 17 years um but there's a way bigger story than that so it was doing something to reach more people to help them to do makeup without feeling I worked in a store and people would come in they'd be embarrassed men would come in wanting makeup and be embarrassed and it was a way of reaching more and more people but I didn't realize that my whole life would reach more and more people so that's where it started that's lovely so so actually the purpose was bigger than you so you had a passion for makeup yeah but then there was the whole uh sort of needs from people that perhaps were suppressed that you could then i think what happened was you're talking to a camera and because i was only 26 when i started maybe and and it when you're just talking to a camera there's no one there so i would start doing makeup but because the tutorials were really long you'd open up about your life and people would start opening up about their lives and then you know you'd get so many viewers to start off with that then your whole journey of life goes through it so for the past 17 years people have known about my life so every hurdle that I've overcome every step of it has been documented and not intentionally but just in chatting while you're doing makeup so people would often stop me and say it's like having a big sister that does makeup that teaches me stuff on the journey but you feel like you've got either a big sister or best friend that's teaching you at the same time because you're putting so much out there yeah i love that because there's a lovely analogy there where social media is such a hard time now where the algorithms have gone and a lot of it is destructive but that was a force for good you were a force for good in a in an evolving it was a puberty pioneer yeah no one was doing it it wasn't although there was money to be made in it we didn't know that when we started you weren't doing it you weren't doing it for that it was to help people and that's still how i go about it it's still teaching people showing people different ways and different techniques um it was never about me or my sister we started it together it was never about us it was about other people we just happened to be on the camera and then it became as people hear about you it became more about us that's probably what worked for you oh it was there's a discernment to all of us as human beings and a gut instinct that can pick up when someone's purely doing something for the money or there's an upsell coming at some point, whereas you were just following a passion and with that lovely fuel to be able to help other people.

5:23Nicola Chapman:And by default, people were getting to know you because probably in some kind of a therapy way, you know, that relatability. We didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't know how big it was going to be. You know, in the early days of YouTube, you put a video up, we used to upload every Thursday, and instantly it'd be like 100 ,000, and you'd see the views going up. and it was your community it was so different to how it is now where there's too much not and I don't mean it like there's too much there's so much sure because I think everyone has a place but there was nothing there was cats doing silly things cars driving fast and us putting makeup on because it's yeah so because you weren't doing it in any way to try and get virality and have stuff go far and wide what did that feel like it was a lovely outlet it was a lovely outlet it was a lovely way to be creative me and my sister it's three years between us we didn't always get on so it was a lovely bonding project for us we then had a line of makeup brushes that were came out of it we didn't own them but we traveled the world together doing those it was such an amazing time you know I've documented miscarriages I've documented my multiple sclerosis journey um with documented depression because you're in it you don't realize that you're putting it out there and actually because we've done it for so long you feel um really sad when you're not being honest and telling people stuff because they're your friends and I know that sounds really quite dickheadish because you don't know them but you're giving so much to people and they do and people do comment back that you're you know it's it feels wrong if you're not giving them enough i love that because that brings the social element in you you've built a community you have a have built a community yeah and that interaction and the fact that you care about those people when they choose to to comment and to perhaps let them know let you know how you've affected their lives positively and sharing probably an element of uh therapy back for you absolutely you know you get both i i didn't really get tons of negative because i i did but i've always ignored it um but it is really lovely when you're communicating with people and they share their vulnerabilities with you as well and you get direct messages from people that may have things going on and sometimes they're a bit too much and i'd be like i can't you need to see someone for this i can't answer this but um there is something to be said about the lovely community that's online if you were are lucky enough to get that side of it yeah i don't want to dwell at all on the negative something but those negative comments and you said i just i ignored them yeah i've got two teenage daughters that are in any one time not wanting to post personally from the fear of judgment the peer pressure and that peer pressure feels like it's perhaps other girlfriends of theirs particular that well if i'm not going to do it you're not so there's almost like a sort of controlling element and i just wonder what advice you've got to people that are probably trapped in that fear element when there is something they have some passion for and want to put out there, but they don't want to take the negative comments.

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9:15Need assistance? No problem. Get 24-7 professional answers and live help and access support by phone, email, and in-platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you, to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more at schwab.com slash trading. Put it on private. Put it on so only the people that you know and like see it, because that's what you're doing it for. And if it happens to, because I have children, 13 and 14, my son is probably more conscious of it than my daughter. and to the point that he's like mum don't put pictures of me on don't put pictures of me because his friends will screen grab it and send it to him you know it's that i've been guilty of this i've been scolded by my girls for doing it it's it's so i have to run everything past him to make sure as i should as i should um it is very difficult i don't know the answer other than um just do remember it is there forever make sure you're really happy with the content that you're putting out and um do it to private if you want if it's just for family send it to family and you know see until you get the confidence or the age that you're not so um conscious of it or worried about it so much because i think growing up now is very difficult yeah how are you managing

10:33Nicola Chapman:up your own kids because we've had this this journey over the last few years we're two two years ahead 15 16 daughters and so there's an element of you if you you've got people around you that say they shouldn't have a phone or they shouldn't have access to all the social media and internet so freely yeah but then we've we've seen uh those restrictions that where that the kids then are trying to go around they're always trying to find a way and then when they are given the opportunity then they go a thousand mile an hour rather than having worked the balance out how have you done that with your own kids i actually think mine aren't so bothered by it maybe because i work it they're just not um my daughter is very much mum i don't want an adult account i they both knew they weren't allowed anything until 13 because that's the law and i'm like you we're not i'm not breaking the law for you at 13 which is the age it said at the time you're allowed instagram you're allowed whichever ones are so they both waited for them they both respected it they wanted it but i was like absolutely not i'm not breaking the law for you um and my daughter was like a few times when she got one she said mum there's a few inappropriate things i don't think i should see they weren't ever bad but she's she's saint edie do you know i mean she's very very conscious of she's got a very good moral compass and i said okay well let's step away from it so she was and i said to my son do you get any of these things show up for you he's like no not too and i said okay so your algorithm's okay and he also knows that at any point his phone is mine and i I could look at it at any point and see what he's doing.

12:05Although I don't understand Snapchat at all. Do you know what I mean? You try and take off and I'm like, I don't even know what's going on here. But they both know that at any point I can take it back. And I think they both have really good moral compasses. From what I've seen and heard and been part of, until they proved me otherwise, I think they're both very good with it. And they don't show too much because neither of them were. It's hard.

12:31Nicola Chapman:i mean it's one of the most uh sort of biggest conversations around our kind of parenting friendship groups where there's so many different opinions and views everyone's doing different things and of course now we know from next year under 16s can't use it and then to relate that back to you and that force for good and the fact that you can learn so much if you are leaning into social media to learn how to do your makeup and learn how to yeah sail a boat whatever it might be um and then the kids and some of the i guess we'd call them influences that i've had a chance to meet um that are much younger coming through now that have built a platform now getting an income from brands what's going to happen what they're saying what they're saying i i with ai and with not wanting to go to university because there's no guarantee of a job out of that this is actually the the low barrier to to try and actually work out how to use social media to then be their own content creation which is stimulating creativity yeah i don't know what you do i wonder what they will do but i was 27 20 i think i was 25 26 27 when i started so that is an age of i wasn't grown up i wasn't mature but i knew consequences and i knew what i was putting out there and stuff so i do think i don't know how these young people will adapt or even get keep their social content um but i do also think something needs to be done because there is so much dis information that isn't correct on there do you know i mean there's so much you know kids putting vaseline all over their faces and stuff and there is so much um some not harmful but some could be down the line that then there needs to be some point that they can kind of get to grips with it and be like okay yeah that is who knows going back to your journey you're saying how you sort of putting content out and seeing it's going to the hundreds of thousands which then becomes bigger and bigger over time and i love the fact that you were not even trying to do that yeah and you also said you were not making any money out of it yeah talk to me about that journey as a content creator that was probably even a word for any of it right yeah to then start to realize this is a thing and actually when did the money start coming in um so we my sister were the first really there was about five of us that started doing it and i worked on a counter doing makeup four days a week three days a week i did freelance so celebrities magazine shoots doing makeup on them so i worked literally seven days a week and then because I wanted to learn I wanted to know more I wanted to do everything and I was living in London and you needed to work a lot to make money and then my sister was having babies and someone asked her how to do a smoky eye so the only place she could upload it was YouTube so she uploaded it it got loads of hits she messaged me and said do you want to do this with me I was like yeah straight away so we both started doing it so in my free time which I had very little of I started filming content um and we continued to film content for about six eight months and then um our following was growing and we were like yeah we don't want to get paid content because it it felt like it was a a scam do you know i mean to get paid for it we're like we're not doing that we're not doing that and then we went for um dinner with another content creator called richie nichols i don't think he even does it anymore and he was like no there's money to be made you just have to say yes so we did that and then um within the wild west it was crazy because no one knew what they were doing and then within a couple of years we were earning about 20 grand a month from it it was really you do not earn any i do not earn anything like that anymore i don't even really upload to youtube anymore but it was from going working on a counter working seven days a week to suddenly getting this money and you were like there was two of us so it was split between us two and we couldn't even get it out of the bank anyway you know you'd have to pay so much to get that money out but it was like what is this so I stopped where I was working and moved back to Norfolk which is where my sister was in Norwich because I always wanted to move back there anyway and then we continued to do that and then we had a makeup brush company that contacted us and we designed makeup brushes for them and we did that for years and we traveled the country the world doing that and that became the number one selling makeup brushes globally for a while but so suddenly from going with nothing actually in debt to go to have all this money and be like i think i might pay off my debt to get to that point was just incredible it changed the feeling of you that so that that pure passion and kind of almost like this is just a byproduct to then it flip it to like actually you could give up other things and and the realisation that the money was coming, did it change the feeling of how you did it and the pressure?

17:25Yeah, I became a bit of a dick for a while. You know, you're like, look, I can buy this, I can buy that, and I did. And my family and my friends were like, I don't know, go, yeah. But I think we were lucky because actually no one else was doing that at the time, so I think not so many people noticed that I was a I knew I was a bit full of myself do you know what I mean and then and then I was like nah not this at all anymore um so we became far I think far more grounded than we used to be

18:02Nicola Chapman:but you know you had to go through that high to then and the maturity to come through and the other thing is there's a there's a it's it's it's all about addiction really in the terms of the uh the way these algorithms are promoting um content and when it flies the content creator gets such a buzz from that yeah let alone the money but this video has just done a million views my next one's got to yeah that's where i'm going with it this was the sort of point and i wonder how you dealt with that because that that swagger like this is flying making money viral and so on but i guess there was a point where you dropped off yeah how did you manage that um luckily we had the brushes so that was giving us the revenue so we were not that almost became a back burner in a way so much to our own fault that dropped off but you didn't notice so much because you were making money here we were diversifying and making money in other pots and other places um and then we had kids and grew up a bit and realized money isn't really everything it helps massively but it isn't everything and then slowly it started to dwindle and less and less and less until it's like i'm comfortable but i don't have to um change my morals for it or become do you know i mean it becomes a different thing a completely different thing when you reach a certain point where it's actually it went almost back to ground zero it was like this is all about the education it's all about helping people um and it's not about me at all if that makes sense it does make sense and actually you must have been privy to learning it's a very personal space that how people look and the lack of confidence and the confidence that can come from that what would you say you've learned the most about being relatable and open yourself and talking to people that so they got to know you and then those people talking back to you if you like and giving you their lived experiences about how important it is for people to look their best and confidence it's self confidence isn't it and being aware of who you are because you know when I started nobody was having they were but you weren't talking openly about surgery Botox fillers like it wasn't something that was done and then it became more of a thing that everyone was talking about until it everyone's doing it and it's common thing to do so there has been so much that has changed in such a short time and i actually think it's almost dropped people's confidence even more because you were what you were at the beginning and you could use makeup to enhance you and great you could learn some things and some tricks and some techniques and makeup was massive and now it's gone far more cosmetic if that makes sense so things have changed the goal posts have changed um but i'm i feel like now it's all going back the other way i think people want that natural if that answers your question in the way it does yeah and you've led on to something yeah well i think with ai now i don't know about you but i see stuff pop up in my i think everything's real well this is aren't we now craving just raw honesty natural rather than the polished always go the other way it would always go the other way we went to youtube because there was magazines there was tv this was raw everyone from tv is now on youtube everyone is doing that so people will hunt for something raw again everyone all the creators or people that want difference will always hunt for their place to be that fits with them so i do feel like um because that's all been taken over people are going back into education they want to learn more everything's so quick and short and fast that people are craving how do you get to that point what have you done to get to that point what's real here because there's so much fake out there it's so hard to see what is real so i do feel like people are craving the long format again the education the how did i get from here to here and how can i put it on in the background and watch it yeah you've articulated that really well did you ever did you ever just listen to you then you're a role model for a lot of people so many people not just because of what you've done but because of how early you were in terms of you're pioneering so people were watching that i mean lots of people whether you knew it or not that were i want to do that or if she can do it i can which is really important you can't be what you can't see.

22:12Nicola Chapman:And I wonder how much of that you, with reflection particularly, appreciate.

22:41$300 now through September 8th at PreNuvo.com. Terms and conditions apply. Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, giving you even more specialized support than ever before. Like access to the trade desk, our team of passionate traders ready to tackle anything from the most complex trading questions to a simple strategy gut check. Need assistance? No problem. Get 24-7 professional answers and live help and access support by phone, email and in platform chat that's how schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly learn more at schwab.com slash trading completely appreciate it we have people who are amazing makeup artists and you know that still say oh my god i've watched your videos i followed your videos and i it is the best thing in the world when people have surpassed me and done far more than i could ever have dreamed of that is the best feeling in the world when they're like i have no um i'm so secure and comfortable in where my life's at i have no well i was doing it first none of it i just want to see people achieve and do well and there's so many people that are just doing fabulous things and way beyond me that i really love that do you know i mean it's i'm

23:55Nicola Chapman:really refreshing to hear that yeah my real lack of ego real lack of that there's so many people trying to get one over each other as you're happily saying you love seeing people flourish and if you in any way helped, you're over the moon to have contributed. You know, you get to a point, and I'm not old, I'm 45, but I don't crave that. I don't crave that anymore, and if someone is hungry for it, fair play, go for it. Do you know what I mean? I'm not as hungry, so I don't deserve it in that way. Do you know what I mean? I'll carry on doing what I'm doing, and I'm enjoying what I'm doing. If I was hungry, it would be different.

24:29I'd be fighting for it, and I still wouldn't disrespect anyone else that grew past me but I'd be more hungry for it you see people that are and I'm like yeah I love and I often message people I'm like you just appeared with a hundred thousand followers and I'm like oh my god I love your content please keep doing it my message to go Angela recently who was doing styling stuff and I sent her a message saying oh my god you keep coming up for me and I absolutely love your content and always voice note I absolutely love your content she's like oh my god I used to follow you years ago and I said just keep doing what you're doing because she's amazing and you're going to thrive and she is doing so well and i love i do feel like a bit of a mother of it that i'm watching them all do it i don't feel even slightly jealous i feel really like fair play mental as well i want to there's two things there i want to come back to know how

25:16Nicola Chapman:hard it is but just the way you were talking then and that hunger which you say you don't have now but your your your energy's been channeled into other things if you like but there is an element of the fact that through all that you've done you've achieved a lot of success and i want to know now what you define as successful um successful for me and it will be different for everyone and mine all revolves around my family success for me is what i'm doing tonight going home sleeping in a tent in the back garden there's a celestial something going on tonight watching the stars of the kids that's successfully having the eclipse and then there's some all the shooting stars having time have it being available to be present for my kids at this age when they are so needy of it but don't need me that is success to me feeling like I'm not constantly chasing feeling like you know and I have to work I have to earn money but picking and choosing what fits me what fits our family that is success but it's also such a privilege and such a I'm not hungry for more i mean if i if i hadn't you know i i still need to earn money it's not i mean not in that position at all i still need to pay my bills and i need to earn money to do that but i'm not in the hunger stage i'm not in that i have to sacrifice all of these opportunities and these times with my kids i'm not there yet i still take my kids to foot my son to football my daughter plays netball and hockey county level i'm ever i'm now a netball coach with her as parents end up being that is success to me being able to be present and have a lovely family because i wasn't brought up in that so being there for that is is success for me because that's beautiful that beautiful and i and i i think that's something that i can take away just listening to you and so many people can and it's without perhaps opening up that chasm of what your childhood was but the very fact you said i know how hard it is to build a business to happen how hard it's been for you with your challenges in childhood and also medically if you like yeah just that resilient piece that's probably the word i'm looking for with you which is a word that can be overused but you you epitomize it in so many ways but you're so calm too there's a steeliness to you 100 i am quite steely but i also think people get lost in it like how much do you need how much is enough when do you stop when do you sit back like i will always have to work I'm not at a point of that I think that's good for my kids to see I think that's really important but I don't want to be the richest person in the grave I don't want to leave my kids loads of stuff it'd be great if I could I don't want to they need to find their own path I also I'm not going to sacrifice those moments to do the vanity things and to earn more money and to be hugely wealthy I just I look at celebrities and I think when's enough enough I'm completely different to them I have a completely different drive to them I suppose but when's enough enough I could size down my house and still be equally as happy and that would bring me money if I needed to do you know what I mean I think of other ways that mean I don't have to go out and do that and be in that rat race and need more more more more I have enough I have enough do you know what I mean I don't know what the drive is no it doesn't make sense to me anyway no but you've got your battle scars from life which is sort of how I was almost going yeah to the point where that's probably what has made me this way I think so yeah well I know so you you've even just kind of accepted that if that makes sense but I think a lot of people going back to that role model piece and the fact that they might be in those trenches right now with something they're struggling with they're overwhelmed with you know what advice would you give to them and that's that steely part because you're in a place now where you know what what what you what your drive is and how you want to channel energy but for someone that has come through so much and has at any one time potentially been overwhelmed that you've come through what's the advice to that um well i always stay positive but i should probably pivot back to it so really short i come from a domestic violence background my dad was violent um when i was 14 he really beat my mum up and wasn't and then we went through two years of court and on my 16th birthday testified in court he was no longer allowed to see us but we had to live in hiding for a year for two a year and a half so through my GCSEs I shared a bed with my mum fabulous get to spend some time with my mum and so because we were in hiding and then finally my grandparents helped my mum buy a house which she paid off and we lived in a little tiny house little tiny terrorist house best memories ever because I didn't have the violence of my dad and my dad had multiple sclerosis um so that was that journey then i had children i had two miscarriages then i had a beautiful son straight after that i found out that my eye wasn't working properly went to the hospital i had optic neuritis fine didn't think anything of it had my daughter so i had two miscarriages two perfect children um had my daughter went blind was training really hard really fit went blind in this eye had a patch on i'm that person that doesn't take anything too seriously because when you come from that background you just don't sweat the small stuff because the big stuff is hard so i i've had a patch on and my friend who's a doctor said babe you need to go to the hospital and have an mri and she and i was like why why she said because if you have lost your sight that can be linked to ms i was like oh so i knew then and there i had ms but I had to go through the procedure of finding out that I had MS.

31:09So that took a year.

31:10Nicola Chapman:My ignorance is MS hereditary? No, but if it's in your DNA, then you obviously stand a much higher chance of getting it and through the stress of childbirth. So take vitamin D, everyone, through the stress, because it coats the myelin sheath, which is the thing that gets attacked. So through the stress of childbirth, I don't want to put that on anyone, but that's me not doing the education before. Sure. I got multiple sclerosis. Lived with it for years because I had so many contracts I had to fill. So I didn't want to tell anyone I had it. Because I was like, I want people to know I can still do these things even though I've got MS.

31:53So I changed my diet. I changed the way I live my life completely to try and disguise this illness that I had. And then it got to a point where I just couldn't hide it from my audience anymore. I felt like I give them so much that I couldn't not tell them anymore. So five years later, I did a big announcement to say I've got multiple sclerosis because all I wanted to know was people were living with it. And I couldn't find anyone that was living with it fine. I would search and I'd be like, why is there no one talking about it and showing? So I wanted to be that ambassador of I've got MS. This is how I live with it.

32:28And then in lockdown. My MS took a turn. So I had vertigo for months. I had this MS hug. Everyone was going for walks. And I was like, I can't go on walks because I can't walk very far. My legs were dropping. So please do feel free to talk. I'm trying to get this through quickly. so um i looked into what things i could do that would slow down my multiple sclerosis because my dad had then died of it so he'd had it wasn't allowed to see us i didn't want to see him because he wasn't a very great man all i knew was the only thing he's ever given me in life is ms so now i have this disease that's slowly killing me the only thing he's ever given me so i looked on into things you could take and there's so many great western drugs and they're still developing amazing ones that I probably will take down the line because they've got new ones that can help them rebuild the myelin sheath and stuff so I looked into that and I was like nah I just want to stop this illness so I flew to Mexico who were the leaders in stem cell transplant and I had stem cell transplant which is a month that was away from the kids and you have a huge amount of chemo then they take your bloods they spin them they weigh them they give them back to you and hopefully your body won't remember it's fighting itself anymore so then that's when i realized what am i working so much for why am i doing all of this when life is throws its own cards at you so that's basically the journey of that was lose all my hair rebuild my life which has been just so amazing but a completely different story wow to where it started sorry i kind of hijacked but i wanted to get it i think if you relate to how i asked you

34:16Nicola Chapman:the question for me it's the fact that you're not afraid to go through a serious amount of pain or put yourself through the work to get the outcome well you were working seven days a week to build up the business which included them doing the content which was an add-on which then creates you know and you're not you're not afraid to put the effort in absolutely and also oh at the time i was a role model for people now i'm a role model to my kids and i wanted them to know yes i've been dealt with a really shit card but that will not define me i will find some way of coming through it and whether that means i have to lose all my hair didn't bother me in the slightest you know but obviously with chemo so it was like explaining that to my kids because they didn't understand at the time but taking the hard road to be over the hill on the other side if that makes sense did you document that as well so the the whole because obviously i've only just met you now so i'm without going back and seeing all that and obviously a big huge amount of content the reason why i say that is for someone that you could say the if someone didn't know you and you did that one minute intro and it was about being a makeup artist there's a vanity to that yeah there's a whole there's a shallowness to that but there's so much depth to you as the human and you were you were prepared to go through and you're openly saying it didn't bother me using all my hair so because you were prepared to do what you needed to try and ultimately remove husband be honest yeah do you know what i mean it didn't bother me in the slightest in fact it was incredibly liberating i didn't love being bald but i loved having a shaved head i loved it i thought it was just the most beautiful thing luckily i have a good shape head but um none of it bothered me because life is an adventure and i'm i've tried so many and experienced so many things that have so many stories to tell about them all do you know i mean it would be a bit boring if you had no stories to tell i have a lot of stories to tell and um you know i had a terrible reaction when i got back to one of the drugs and my face swelled up massively i'm bald and i've got this big swollen face that you couldn't even see my eyes and i said to my husband i've got to take a photo of me smiling because i'll look back on this that's my life basically it's always i know i will look back on that with maybe not fond memories but with a smile because i've overcome it and that is what i think is why i don't need more because being present you can feel that thing being present is everything you can feel that in your words and your energy um and that it's the genuine side of it you know the authenticity that sits behind it you can really feel i hope so and then perhaps someone that would have known you not in an egotistical way but just that person that was perhaps enjoying the attention yeah uh in those moments when there was virality and things were blowing up and followers commenting and doing all the things you don't miss any of that i can i can genuinely tell but that's uh that's real it started from a place of helping people it's it may be diverted onto me for a bit but that was very short-lived it's back to a place of helping people it's it's never it's never been really my story about me because I'm just a player in it.

37:24Do you know what I mean? It's about everyone around me. And to have got to experience all those things, to have been bored, to have been... What if you can see what's happening inside your body? PreNuvo's whole body scan screens for hundreds of conditions, including many solid tumors as early as stage one, all in under an hour. And now you can go beyond imaging with 80 plus blood biomarkers that help complete the picture. This Labor Day, save$300 off your scan when you book at prenuvo.com. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O dot com. Save$300 now through September 8th at prenuvo.com. Terms and conditions apply.

38:03Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, giving you even more specialized support than ever before. Like access to the trade desk, our team of passionate traders ready to tackle anything from the most complex trading questions to a simple strategy gut check. Need assistance? No problem. Get 24-7 professional answers and live help and access support by phone, email and in-platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more at schwab.com slash trading. Any of those things, you know, have miscarriage. It's just heartbreaking to be, to have experienced those things and know what that, to come from domestic violence, to experience those things and lived it is very powerful and it does make you a very different person at the end of it which is probably why i'm not searching for more because i realize that doesn't make you happy right the you know me and my sister would go away with our brush line and we'd have to be for two weeks at a time seven times a year we'd have to be away and i had small children and she had teenagers or coming into that which is so much harder for her and we'd buy frivolous things for that one hit that made you feel good and it was worth it and then you get to a point where you're like this sleeping under the stars that's that it didn't cost me anything do you know i mean you start to realize those things are

39:29Nicola Chapman:not needed i can't remember if it was literally in this conversation or before we started filming but you said memory making memory making and that doesn't necessarily cost you money it's about the presence banking that is everything i um i want to thank you because is we had a chat outside and there was some comment about extraordinary stories and you saying oh you know not extraordinary and so on but the storytelling element it's that's how I learn I'm really visual I think that's related to a lot of people yeah exactly and so although it's your lived experience in your life which you know so well just the sort of half an hour I've been with you and the way that there's so much to learn yeah humility with success and the other side of that then becomes actually just make time for those precious those moments that don't need to cost money you know all the holidays i've had with my kids that are uk-based that haven't cost much best they're their best holidays ever because we bring family you know those are the things that i will spend more money on is getting all my family together all my siblings everyone that they're the they're the things that matter because that's the key to everything if you can all be in each other's company and enjoy it what more is there yeah yeah yeah well you're a pleasure to speak oh thank you i'm sorry i feel like i really hijacked it but i really wanted it's you it's all about you i've loved it no if anything it's not long enough but i just want to thank you for being part of it i've loved it lovely thank you so much thank you for having me enjoyed it Bye.

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