The Story of Goodwood: The Duke Who Turned Heritage into a Global Motorsport Phenomenon | Extraordinary Life Stories

27:25Charles Gordon‑Lennox:We should be done. You know, we got to be preparing for it all. and then we start the build in about we start the build in about april

27:36John Reynolds:is that right major and that's for a july event just in the context of anyone yeah we start right

27:41Charles Gordon‑Lennox:at the top and we start to build it down so it affects it hopefully affects the activities in the house as little as possible uh but it's not it has a lot of impact you know we can't do anything in the house for all of june and july really because it's so busy out there and it's it has a big impact on the family i mean we are absolutely surrounded uh with that so it's a big build it's a three it's three months in and out um i mean somebody said actually i'm not suggesting this is necessarily true but somebody said uh somebody was just it's the biggest greenfield site build in the world because you look at the stands as well so obviously um you know there are some huge um There are some huge events in the world, huge music events and things as well.

28:28Charles Gordon‑Lennox:But in terms of actual and also cost of build, because that number I mentioned now, that's just what it costs us to put it on. That's not what all the stands are. You think every manufacturer's, you know, not quite so much now in the world we're in, in terms of, you know, the builds. But they are building huge, they're building, you know, like a dealership almost. Exactly.

28:49John Reynolds:I mean, incredible. The manufacturers and some of the brands that now take us down, if you like, the structures are so important.

28:59Charles Gordon‑Lennox:That's a huge build. And then they're all on site for a month building that. And then we've got to get them done on time. And so the overall commitment and the overall investment, you know, some of those, I mean, they're investing millions in the weekend.

29:14John Reynolds:But that makes this, a lot of what you're doing there, a hub for businesses to thrive within. that motorsport and the automotive community must be you know i mean i almost feel like at this point i want to thank you for the incredible memories i spent with friends family um and coming here i've actually done three days in a row as a younger version than me because you just couldn't get enough out of it and i come with a good friend patrick conony uh and we would just have a different experience every day and so that's just that's my personal appreciation and thanks to you but countless others that benefit from that.

29:47John Reynolds:I want to bring up that entrepreneurial piece and I want to bring everything into the estate, the sports, so the horse racing, the cricket, the golf, the kennels, and probably flipping that to you, all sorts of other business interests that you've got because that part you said where you were at one point looking to generate more revenue, be aristocratic, old English money that often had great big estates that are very expensive to run without cash flow without income coming in there's some really sad stories about how those families have deteriorated and not survived so that's where that entrepreneur that you are the vision you've had to create what you've done here i want to know at what point you sort of change your focus so where i'm going with it is the first sort of speed is now the monster is do you flip it to then looking to sort of accelerate the golf the horse racing and what else can you do kind of thing is that how your brain works and so have these different pillars

30:44Charles Gordon‑Lennox:of income for this yeah we're trying absolutely trying to you know trying to grow all the time we've got too many different things going on probably a lot right 29 what have i not mentioned farm shop or 29 profit centers probably well we've got the you know you're right in the sense of traditional states you know a traditional estate as a business is difficult farm forestry property those sorts of overheads that was just a huge you know yeah um you know covid was pretty pretty terrifying because we just had a massive fixed overhead and actually it was income zero we employ about 750 people um so we we really really really need to be profitable and um and uh and we need at the same time as being profitable support you know the long-term plans we've got to keep the place going so we're not trying to make lots we're not trying to be super we're not trying to be super clever you know we're not trying to squeeze everything out of it we it's got to last so we You don't want to do things that damage it.

31:39Charles Gordon‑Lennox:And the festivities are worried in that sense. It does do quite, you know, it takes, you get nothing from, you know, you can't have something for nothing. It takes quite a toll on the ground and things. But the most important thing, the whole reason for all of this in a way is to keep it all alive and well and make it relevant to a modern world. So it's really to take our history, take our heritage and make the most of that. so that's good for everyone and also turn that into make that useful turn that into the into

32:10John Reynolds:the into a business yes you're doing and then i hope the immunity benefits then as well can i can i humanize you for a moment there's a there's a pressure coming from the sort of the hierarchy and the heritage and history you've got that almost puts that pressure on you to to sort of be the next person that does something innovative and make sure that everything survives and thrives Have you embraced that at all times? We've had moments where it's almost intimidating and almost a burden. Before, of course, what you've done, those earlier years where you were creating the things you've done. Was that something you thrived within or was that something you found?

32:46Charles Gordon‑Lennox:I think it's probably, you know, it's definitely inspiring. You know, it's fun. It's inspiring. We've got to make it work. You know, we've got a fantastic opportunity. We got this great palette, you know, of our little mantras, horse racing, motor racing, golf, flying, shooting and cricket, you know, all together in one small place in a way. I mean, it's all just here. And those are all just sports, you know, activities, which various members of the family over 300 years, they really loved. So they all come through because people love doing it. No one tried to be smart. And none of this has been dreamt that because someone was trying to make some money out of it or anything.

33:25Charles Gordon‑Lennox:It's just that people loved it. And they were lucky enough, I guess, to be able to indulge in their passions. But at least they were busy and they were doing stuff and they were involved in the, you know, they're very political as well. They were doing lots of things. But it started off with the hunting. The first fox hunt in the world was here. That's why it all started. Kennels was built. Hounds rule here. That was a big thing. Cricket, 1702, the first game of cricket was played here. We've got the earliest written rules of cricket in the world, you know, which is big. So 300 years next year was a big celebration.

33:55Charles Gordon‑Lennox:1727, those laws, I think they call them, were written. So we've got very involved with cricket and really early. And then horse racing started. Cricket was 1702, the first game. The first horse racing here was, public horse racing was 1801. And so these things have been, you know, they've been going, they're already institutional, really. The horse races have been going a long time. But it's been great to try and, I guess what's been exciting is it's, I mean, brand's a bit of a commercial word, but it's trying to create this, you know, what does goodwill mean to people? why do people you know love it what is it that is that what is it that brings it makes it all happen and um and trying to bring all these sports back to life and and make something of them and create this unique sort of you know this unique feeling yeah and i think the place you know i think the place itself has a lot to answer for in a way i think you know you know people have done these things because they love doing them they were super enthusiastic i hope that that feeling carries on it doesn't feel commercial it feels like it's being done because we all love it it's important i mean you know sheer love of life is in one of our values in the in the you know for everyone who works here and my sort of you know my point about that to to to them is that if i don't love doing it you're probably not going to love doing if you don't love it why are our customers going to love it they build up they've got to love they've got to love coming they've got to love doing it and we're super like because we're actually and we're also doing stuff that people love so what more you know that's very lucky we're not doing boring old stuff so that's very very fortunate but i do think the place itself you know from the very beginning um you know those early days of the horse racing and things you know they were racing their horses up there anyway because so many people used to come up and start to watch things it became a public event so there's always been this very much this shared you know it's a shared experience it's like you know we love our horse racing we're going to race our horses but you can come and

35:48John Reynolds:enjoy that as well if you want i love that because that parallels the the sort of the string between uh anyone and the the track or the driveway for your first test of speed build it and they'll come but you're doing because you wanted to that your passion in that instance has led to countless people coming over these years and previous you know generations it's fun to try

36:10Charles Gordon‑Lennox:remembering those early years trying to get the right cars here we yeah these cars didn't exist then i mean 30 years ago you know an auto union or something they were still in east germany pretty much you know there wasn't one so we were trying to find these cars from around the world and find weird people that had them and dig them out i bet you enjoyed that we loved that yes it was really fun but the main i but a real driver for it was this you know we just it was it was kind of thinking well everyone's gonna love this we just if they're gonna if they can see this you know when um when uh um you know mercedes uh at the w165 had its first outing here you know so it won the tripoli grand prix and then never came out the box it arrived in tripoli won the race and then you know before the war and there was never seen again and um and then it was it was it was rebuilt and it came here for the first time you mentioned that car would you say that's the car that meant the most to you out of all the years no that's impossible um that's that's an

37:11John Reynolds:unfair question what's the first car that comes to mind of all the years that you've hunted these cars out to come the one car that for whatever reason springs to front of your mind that you're

37:21Charles Gordon‑Lennox:so pleased you got it here well there are there there are there are a few there are a few and there there are um uh yeah i mean it was it was uh because no one knew where they were then really now they will know where they are and we'll you know they're all we know i mean getting jim hall to bring the chaparrales the first time was getting ferrari here the first time having the grand prix team here lucas sending the grand prix team in 97 for the first time and just saying i went to see him and marinello what do you want i said this is what i what is what i need he said no problem there we come and they've come every year since you that was a big moment for me because i wasn't you know and he he's so glad i made that year and he um i drove in with him from bologna his house and you know when i heard him on the phone to his office saying i want i mean my i'm in the car i'm going i want to see mr braun and mr todd everybody because it was it was uh and we sat in the office and he said we're going to goodwood okay where is this goodwood what are you doing we're trying to win races and he said no no we're going so i bet lots of business has been done here since so um yeah those were big moments those are a bit like oh my god okay this is a big this is a big step forward and gave him the chaperas i remember i came out of the dining window so it was french door and this guy ran into me knocked me over till eight o 'clock in morning or something he said i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i just i've come from chicago i've come to see the chaparrales i thought wow we've shipped you know because they'd never been they hadn't been out of texas for you know no one had seen them for years if ever you know and suddenly jim brought them and um and this you know these people came all the way from chicago to see a car that was in america anyway because it's the first time it had been seen so so to get those really obscure you know first car first car with a wing you know first car with you know the sucker car

39:19John Reynolds:with the with the um grand force yeah is there a car that's alluded you to this date you still

39:25Charles Gordon‑Lennox:haven't got it here but oh yeah well then there definitely are um uh there are a few obviously a few cars and a few and a few drivers that we that we that we never got annoyingly but um i'm trying think what car in particular we would um because i can imagine you're relentless when you are well we want the best one your passion so we want a one that's you know we want the one that we that is the one i think that's another important thing uh about well both events is that i want people to see the best cars in the world so when they see a car even though they don't know that is the one we want it to be the one if at all possible because i think that just sets a whole it sets a whole feeling to the even if they don't know it is it's not if they're all that good yeah it suddenly becomes something you know beyond uh just bringing a load of cars together so and and uh so to get the best cars in the world here is really important yeah and um you know i used to dream about so what is quite weird is i used to dream about a lot of these cars as a child so i come here for the motor racing i'd then be at school and i you know my dormitory or whatever trying to dream about trying to go to sleep dreaming about being here and dreaming about these cars and then um things like the automobile book i then draw a lot of the cars and things copy them out the books and things and then what's weird is they've all been here so all those cars i dreamt of as a child i said well we'll have that one we'll have that one one of those they've all been here and i've driven and i i don't own them annoyingly but i've driven a lot of them you say that's quite unusual that yeah we're quite with yeah it's just either i want you kind of if you want it badly enough it'll it's sort of that's my point and we've had yeah yeah it's the only event and again it's developed because it actually started off really just as classic racing cars to start with and even the big manufacturers originally really only bought they didn't really they weren't really interested in sharing modern cars and obviously it's grown in that sense a lot it's the end event which brings every genre together across 100 years all in one place so we've had without any doubt more cars more great cars here than anywhere else and then more great cars have been on that bit of grass out there than anywhere else in the world which is another

41:43John Reynolds:weird thing it's incredible what a statement yeah humanizing it to you what's your favorite car if we were going to go for a drive it was in a beautiful day today it's actually getting dark right now but if it was if it was a trip to the the kennels for lunch maybe there'll be a lot there'll be a lot there'll be a few um uh well the car i most regret not owning uh uh

42:11Charles Gordon‑Lennox:is the is sterling's 250 short short wheelbase which i actually did have the opportunity to That was a missed opportunity. But that car, which Ross Bourne knows, is the Goonwood car. It was the one he won the TT Inn, famously listening to Raymond Baxter on the radio. So the car arrived from Italy, fitted with the radio. It arrived, I think, on the morning. So it was Rob Walker's, Rob Walker livery, Rob Walker team. And I think it arrived. It was late. needless to say it arrived literally the morning of the race i think pretty much but it came with a radio fitted as weirdly a standard so sterling ran the race listening to the commentary of him winning the race um that that would be a card love that's a good it's that dark you know the dark blue one uh a6 gcs maserati i'd put there's one that come there's that light blue one i think there are two there you have to buy two there you've got to put the bodies in the edge and you sort of put them back together again but um that's a never driven that that's a beautiful thing uh but i have driven and i've been lucky i've driven so many put me i'm a big porsche fan i had a big friday family i'm a big porsche fan and um and i've driven so many great porsches um you know i've been ix's lemong car 9083 um which is the best car for almost the best car for the job out here the gulf you know with the gulf yeah that's a flashback to when porsche

43:40John Reynolds:celebrated that's a gorgeous outside here mark webber drove in and all the porsches parked around it's incredible they're just sort of marinating and where we are right now you live here but for me this is a pleasure you just used the word you said i'm lucky enough to have driven lots of cars but you make your own luck and i want to bring success into this you have achieved a huge amount of success with all the things that you've put your hand to and i want to ask you sitting here now what your definition of success is. This episode is brought to you by eBay. On eBay, behind every car and part is a story waiting to be shared.

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45:09Charles Gordon‑Lennox:Well, it's a very difficult question. I mean, I don't know if it has been. And the challenge continues. So I don't feel, I mean, I think it's been a good thing. And I think, I hope that all the things we try and do are good things for people. Hopefully, you know, are good for people. um so i think that's important um and um i guess success in a way setting yourself a setting yourself a goal and ambition and hopefully hitting it i guess as soon as you hit it you're on you're on to another one and that's kind of okay of course that's done and um you're kind of moving on and we need to move on i mean a place like this needs to move on we don't want to get stuck in this you know we don't get stuck in the heritage world really uh we we're it's very much part of what we have we're so lucky yeah i don't so i'm very i don't underestimate that i mean to have it we started from a very very good place and that we had the history um we've got everyone loves these sports we've got the history we've got the narrative uh and that's and and we're so lucky with with goodwood's yeah goodwood's first incarnation was where motivation was its most you know exciting most dangerous you know most glorious and we're lucky to have sat perfectly in that in that moment but um no success for me is really keeping you know goodwood can grow because if if people feel strongly about it i mean i'm very touched when people you know we've got families it like you've been coming for 25 years yeah the children were like this now they're like this they all come they come every year um you know when small boys say that's the best weekend i've ever had that was my best weekend ever that's you know i mean you can say well it doesn't really matter but yeah that's that's uh meaningful so i think yeah it's a legacy now to be meaningful is important and it's it's um and to and to be able to um you know make it all happen i mean i think goodwill is very much about bringing people together yes you can feel that lots of levels

47:22John Reynolds:you feel that and you know the revival meeting which we you know plenty of people probably furious with me for not talking about it more but i think that personal speed it just brings that whole everything motorsports together but the revival the members meeting i've been to breakfast clubs and the community element you're getting up really early morning for an excuse to enjoy your car, to then drive to meet like-minded people, have a Goodwood Estate bacon and egg bap, and then be home by 9.30. You know, you've created a community element that, again, I can't thank you enough for and countless others.

47:58John Reynolds:I feel like I've dominated a lot of the conversation around the Goodwood Festival of Speed. I want to talk about the revival, because that is a lot of people around me's favourite event to come to. I want to kind of almost get anyone watching and listening to understand more about it.

48:11Charles Gordon‑Lennox:Well, Revival was an interesting one because obviously that was where we started. So we were trying to get the racetrack reopened at the beginning and Festival Speed happened in 93 and it wasn't eventually. 98, we had our first, we got planned permission to open the track literally kind of pretty much the morning if we did it. And then September 98, extraordinary 50 years to the day that the track opened originally. That wasn't an intentional thing. It's just sort of how it panned out. and um you know seeing that come to like so trying to create that and then think about how we could really kind of deliver again create again what good was all about in the 50s and 60s and um i guess the initial the initial uh idea was that we would we started off thinking was it going to be a modern racetrack so in a way it was a good thing we did the festival first because it made me realize that you know that was the usp really the fact they hadn't been touched so you got this great track pretty much unique in the world i mean no one's it's never been altered it's exactly as it was the buildings have fallen down so we rebuilt a lot of those wartime buildings just to keep the the look and feel of it the same so in a way it was like how do we make this feel and look the same perhaps look even a bit better than it did but um have all those same the sort of same feelings and touch points and then some bright spots well why don't we get everyone to you know bring the right picnic handles well i think we start arriving the right cars let's get one to come in an old let's get one to come in an old car that'd be fun and then we said well maybe they should come you know with all the right then well maybe they should even dress like they were there so that wasn't your idea because that was well it might have been i don't know but you know there's a lot of uh it does it kind of grew and then there's a lot of people people love that a lot of you so that isn't going to work that is not good that we're not going to that is not going to work we can't do that so you made it optional so people can well we didn't make it optional the paddock so it wasn't optional from the from day one it wasn't really optional you had to if you're going to go in the paddock you had to you had to make an effort so it was members only in the paddock which was a good idea as well actually and then it was it because that sort of drove the whole grrc thing at the beginning when they weren't really knew what it was and then and then it was you got to wear a tie uh or you got to wear a tie or you want a jacket or you certainly can't wear jeans and trainers and there was style police so you know it was kind of fine to smoke in the paddock but not to wear trainers

50:45Charles Gordon‑Lennox:and yeah it took a bit of time people there was a bit of you know it took a few years but then is usually now and now if you don't make an effort uh you feel a bit uncomfortable and you i'll get kids coming and they just go oh wow they didn't really i'll get a bit crossed really about having to sort of make this effort and then when they're there they're going wow this is so cool we love it and and it's become obviously a big thing but it's and it's also turned into you know revivals uh become really interesting because it's it's um yeah it's a it's got a very modern even though it's celebrating this this moment i don't think it's it's it's not all about nostalgia or anything so everybody looks amazing which gives it a great feel everyone makes a big effort that's another really important is everyone thinks they're in the film so that makes a huge difference so you know that i guess that's all we want to feel about all our events but the revival is definitely the most intense where the people there are all in it yes yeah they feel that and they don't want to leave that's not sure they don't like leaving we can't get people to go literally say no we don't want to go back out there we like being here and that's really that's that's that that's really nice but um you know it's become about so that the whole the whole fashion thing has become about you know revive and thrive well the whole ethos ethos of the event really and especially around these old cars these old cars are good you know these are good for the environment these cars cost us you know they're not costing anybody anything they've been these great old racing cars it doesn't matter that they're worth tens of millions or not it's not important but they're just been smashed up rebuilt smashed up rebuilt they don't they're you know they're that's just all they're like an old pair of lovely shoes and um and the whole vintage fashion things about you know buy the best made to last look after things pass them on so our whole motto the whole the whole sort of you know tagline around revival is revive and thrive so that's that's the real driver and of course when and it's now the you know first motorsport event in the world to run you know to mandate synthetic fuel so everyone's running you can't come unless you're running on synthetic fuel so there are all these great cars all all running on that and um and it's about sustainability so it's a it's a much young it's got a very young message and a very relevant message uh but it's you know these old cars mustn't be seen as bad you know they're good things they don't uh you know they don't only want anything no

53:05John Reynolds:love the revive and thrive yeah and i also love the i think i'm going to bring that attention to detail in which i think so much comes from you and i want to bring your own personal style in I've seen you from a distance even a breakfast event you turned up in a beautiful fiat, I forget the model and you were just mingling with all the enthusiasts there I met you in London and where I'm going is you're impeccably turned out, including right now there's a discipline to that there's an element of showing up and looking how you do have you ever gone away from that? it feels like that's important to you in turning up looking the way you do

53:45Charles Gordon‑Lennox:not really no i've always been um i've always been uh uh interested in that and interested in people kind of you know i think we're also goodwood's very much for after horse racing there's quite a kind of that's an important message around the horse racing as well so you know famously edward the seventh so it used to be goodwood used to be like asco in morning morning suits and then edward the seventh turned up one year allegedly with us a white top hat So all the young guys rushed out, sent their valets out to find the white top hats. Next year, they're all ready for him with their white top hats.

54:18Charles Gordon‑Lennox:He turned up in a sort of cream linen suit and a Panama hat, so a complete change. So from then on, Goodwill became sort of much more relaxed than Ascot. And quite, you know, so about men in linen suits and that whole look. so good was always been quite you know so i guess when we decided again to to um focus on the fashion at revival and that being an important one what people you know people making that effort at revival that was a that was an important decision and then trying to find old fabric so i've had lots of great suits made but in 50s fabrics and all sorts of things and um it's a you I mean, it's not an effort, but it is, I suppose, making it, you know, it is, you know, it is living that.

55:07And I guess I do live that every day, but in a way, but at Revival, making the effort is what makes the difference because people then feel they've made an effort.

55:16Charles Gordon‑Lennox:So they're not and they're not driving, but they've made an effort and they've come and here. And so they feel that they're now part of it. They're all in the, they can feel that they're in the family. They're all there together. Hey, look what I've done. what have you done you know you haven't tried very hard whatever but and then so and that's a really that we had no i we honestly that was when we had the idea for that people should dress and that the idea that it would bring people together yes we would never entered our heads really so

55:44John Reynolds:that's been a huge yeah i've been on both sides of i've been in the so i feel like i belong and everyone gives you that knowing look and i've also walked through the palette and i've been dressed effectively in sort of relatively casual time. You can sense the whole, you shouldn't be here. Why have you not made the effort? I'm conscious of time. There's a lot here that is sort of innovative, brilliant ideas that keep kind of developing into where we are today. Can you share with me anything you're working on that you're excited about that we can look forward to that's coming? Because I feel like you've got lots of ideas that entrepreneurial side to you.

56:19John Reynolds:Is there anything you're excited about that's coming?

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57:19Charles Gordon‑Lennox:Well, there are quite a few developments around, I guess, FESB and Revival, the car thing and membership and things. We're very excited about whether we can take that, move that around the world and do other things with it. We've looked at that quite a lot. We've just got to find the right way of doing it. And it's a big question for me. Is it really all about being here? Is it really rooted it or can we take it out so the brand and and and getting that right that's that's a a big issue for us we started this crazy dog thing dog event called good wolf um so dogs have played a big part in the family i mean lots of these pictures you know portraits painted and they've got their dogs in the picture the hunt was the first thing here it's the reason the family came in the first place uh we've got this beautiful kennels building which was considered the most luxurious doghouse in the world when it was built they put central heating in there 100 years for the hands before they put it in the house so you know an 18th century english aristocrat spent much more time and effort probably on his dogs and horses than he did on his house and his guests his family so and i and coming out of covid we just thought there's so much interest and so much around dogs so we've done this this really it is very it is a very fun thing yeah um and um you know it's about the dog it's for the dog it's about one's relationship with the dog it's definitely not a dog show so that's a challenge for us is trying to get to understand that this is something completely different and actually all the events we do it gets the highest score for highest mps score so it's quite interesting but it is a it is a you know and again you know it's crazy it's like pilates with your dog it's like you know we have a ministry of hound dancing with your dog we do a whole architecture competition with the world's great architects competing for the best dog kennel.

59:03Charles Gordon‑Lennox:We pick a different theme ever. It's dogs in space. This year where it lives designing kennels for space. And we've got, you know, these great architects and designers doing that. And then they're all sold for charity and stuff. So that's a fun thing. And very, you know, it's a creative fun thing. But they're not easy to get off. These things, you know, they're not easy to get off the ground. You have a phenomenal track record. We need a lot of time. We've got some great partners at all our events. We've been fantastic, lucky with our sponsorships and our partners and our supporters and in covid everyone was all our members were unbelievably supportive and helpful and so we've been really uh yeah there's so much goodwill there we're really lucky yeah but it goes

59:41John Reynolds:back to that community i mean you what you've what you set out to create and then achieved everyone wants to be part of that in the you know that's you know really important from a community point of view my final question for you across the whole of the year is there a day you look forward to the most day after festival speed probably the relief well yeah i mean probably yeah well i don't look

1:00:06Charles Gordon‑Lennox:but it's a you know it's a it's a to come come through it i said i said right at the beginning at the beginning we at the beginning of of um when we first created it was like we were never going to do it again that went on for quite a few years i can remember my pa having on the filing cabinet yeah not another first you know on the festival speed draw it was not another festival speed so we wouldn't decide off until the last minutes we're going through and we're announcing the dates or not are we going or not you know those early days was all of it and we're going oh my god okay we'll do it again so we it was a real kind of it was such a it was such a huge you know it was a heavy lift yeah that we go then at the end of it you'd be so you know i guess you know you'd be both exhausted and happy and excited and we've had some horrible ones you We've had some very difficult years.

1:00:58And, but, you know, in a way that, you know,

1:01:03Charles Gordon‑Lennox:that makes the whole experience very, very intense. And, you know, you've got the good ones and the bad ones. And it is just a thing, but it is a relief when it's over.

1:01:11John Reynolds:I can feel that from you. You need to keep doing them because myself and many others so look forward to it and so enjoy it. You made time to talk with me today. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I hope you've enjoyed talking to me. Pleasure. No, very much. Thanks a lot. Thank you.

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