Back to business at Zandvoort – 2025 Dutch GP Preview with Jolyon Palmer + Alex Jacques

0:00This episode is sponsored by IM8. When it comes to looking after my health, one of the biggest battles I have is consistency. But the truth is, the easier something is to build into your day, the more likely you are to stick with it. That's one of the reasons I've kept using IM8's Daily Ultimate Essentials. It's a powder drink supplement co-founded by David Beckham and built by leading doctors and researchers. is. IM8 combines 16 supplements to support your body across nine major organ systems, all in one drink. It feels good to know I'm doing something positive for my health every day without making it another thing to think about.

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3:43Jolyon Palmer:That championship lead that's nine points could easily be 61 points, but for largely a bit of luck. Jake C, do you think this is now a mental game? Final rounds of the World Championship are always a mental test. You don't get to be world champion unless you can withstand the pressure. Now there's 10 races to go and we can sort of see the finishing line. It'll start to loom larger and a small moment could cost you a world championship. The emotional rollercoaster of Hamilton this year has been hard to follow. The potential is so much better than these miserable results look. We're not used to Lewis making these sort of mistakes, which I think shows the pressure he's under.

4:21How much is the local support going to help Max?

4:25Jolyon Palmer:He's up against it, but I do think it's probably the perfect way for Max to come back after the summer break and a tough race in Hungary. Are you Team Yuki? I think he's definitely fighting for his Formula One career. If we were giving out awards mid-season, Rookie of the Year? Haja. I'm now thinking Bortoleto. I'm with you. The reason to buy us is incredible.

4:51There are 10 races and three F1 sprints to go. Formula One is back after the summer break and what a thrilling title fight we've got in store. Welcome everyone to F1 Nation's preview of this weekend's Dutch Grand Prix. I'm Tom Clarkson and joining me on the show is former Renault driver Jolien Palmer and his teammate in the F1 TV commentary box, lead commentator Alex Jakes. Guys, the summer break is over. How are you both?

5:20Jolyon Palmer:very good well rested enjoy i did enjoy the summer break but it's time to get back to business isn't it 10 races to go and there's a lot at stake yeah there is indeed uh also an another broadcast from f1 with us two on it i mean that's that's the end of the summer break right here isn't it straight back to work but as you say we've got a great title running to come so yeah looking forward to it quick word on on the summer break i mean will the drivers have been switching off these past three or four weeks or you know or is it difficult to do that mid-season particularly if you're in the title fight i i'd switch off i think it's big it's so intense the season and particularly if you're in a title fight you know the pressures you turn up every week it's similar questions the world doesn't change that much when there are so many races packed in but you have this three-week break the team's literally shut down for a couple of weeks so there's no communication and when when I was driving I buzzed up Kilimanjaro for a week and I was literally I was out of phone signal for for seven days halfway up a mountain in Tanzania and it was it was the best way to clear my head so I don't think anyone's done that but I do think it's a nice time to get away and refresh because you need the energy for the running but do you think about racing still even when you're up Kilimanjaro you've got to take Kilimanjaro day by day TC um I know I could I could switch off to be honest it's three weeks is a nice is a nice gap of course you have some thoughts and you have that you're always going to be thinking a little bit of you know ideas that come to your head ways to beat your teammate or whoever it is but I I just think it's an important time to be able to switch off for a little bit and then get back in but they'll still be training they'll still be making sure that their their race fit and they're sharp turning up to Zandvoort but it's important to be able to just have a little bit of time to get back to normality in the in the summer.

7:17Jake see it's interesting isn't it because some drivers come back stronger and I think of Lewis Hamilton in particular if you look at his career he's always had a good run in at the second half isn't he? Yeah some drivers are built to finish strong in that regard it's interesting though because it's quite a quite an unusual thing to build in such a big break compared to other sporting competitions for example um so yeah it's it's a it's a key thing for the dynamic of any close season and we're obviously going to focus on the title fight but there's there's so many key battles up and down the uh the drivers and constructors championships that yeah a bit of a bit of a reset especially for the rookies i think absolutely key we'll come on to the rookies let's focus on that title fight so oscar piastri leads his McLaren teammate Lando Norris at the top of the World Championship by just nine points going into these final 10 races.

8:12Lando has won three of the last four Grand Prix and continues his pursuit of Oscar at a track where he converted pole position into victory last year. Let's start by talking McLaren competitiveness. Do you see this coming race weekend as a battle between the two McLaren drivers?

8:32Jolyon Palmer:I think we have to, don't we? Every race now is becoming more and more dominated by McLaren. I think the rivals are generally falling away. Red Bull are dropping a long way, I think, at the moment. And I don't see that changing too much for the next few races. And they were the big threat, really. Early on, you had the odd Mercedes decent performance. You had Ferrari very occasionally getting in the mix. obviously Leclerc is off the back of a pole position but in terms of consistency in qualifying and the race the two McLarens have an advantage and I'd be quite surprised if they're not one and two again in in Zambuk yeah but in which order well that's the big question so uh you know usually we're sitting here and I'm like right you you said it you know Norris was pole he won the race he overtook Max as well in the race last year so you're saying this is a Lando Norris circuit there are other tracks where I think Oscar is going to be so good but it's pretty much flipped the script this year so I feel like the previous form book hasn't materialized we had Barcelona where I think Lando's always been really strong and he was just playing second fiddle to to Oscar a lot probably uh Austria was the one where we we actually predicted that Lando would do what he did which is win the race but it was still really close and on a knife edge between them so I think we sort of come into these races in theory I think Norris has the better form around the circuit he's won three of the last four there's things in his favor but in reality it's who does the job on a Saturday afternoon firstly and just dials in and makes fewest mistakes through qualifying and Jake see who would you rather be right now Lando Norris or Oscar Piastri you'd always rather have the points wouldn't you I think anyway you mentioned the momentum but it's momentum with fine margins isn't it Austria was very tight across the line Budapest was very tight across the line you'd always rather have the points um and more than that I think that Piastri has been able in the in the first half of the season to access the best of his driving more often so I think that's the key question for Lando in the run-in can Lando access the peaks uh like we've seen him in previous years without the pressure of a title fight can he access the best of his driving more often because it's piastri who did that in the first half of the year so i'd rather be in his seat i've not switched off over the summer break this year i've been just pouring through data and numbers i'm not in my racing driver era now i'm going to be washed by the time we get to qatar i'm going to be no energy i didn't recharge the batteries but what i've been thinking is piastri's been the better driver and we're talking about at the fine margins nine points Lando winning three of the last four but on pretty much all stats and and viewing Piastri has been the better driver so far and I look through and I think he that championship lead that's nine points could easily be 61 points but for largely a bit of luck so I'm thinking there's 16 points lost in Melbourne both McLarens go skittling off through the gravel Oscars is slightly more than Lando's but really these you know you can't judge this and it cost Oscar on the day 16 points I'm thinking Silverstone tough decision uh that I've not seen penalized since or before and it cost Oscar the win uh Imola the timing of the safety car really tough decision and it's just a bit of bad luck it cost them on the time only six points in terms of a swing and then you've got Budapest a great win for Lando absorbed the pressure did what he had to do but he did it because he had a bad start was in a in the wrong position and then sort of got into the right strategy that Oscar wasn't given so when you look at all those points lost even the two points in the the Miami sprint where a safety car timing cost Oscar the win and and gave it to Lando there's been a lot of things that have just gone towards Lando in these first 14 races oscar's overall out qualified him by a slender margin and i think he's outraced him and the gap could be so much more comfortable but as it is it's nine and it's absolutely on on for anyone right you said you said oscar's the better driver define better for us well i'm not saying he is the better driver but he has had the better he's been better in these first 14 races so and better he's been faster he's qualified ahead of Lando more often than not it's 8-6 he's been further ahead when he's qualified when he's been at the front a lot of his wins have been quite quite comfortable he's kept Lando at arm's length I'm thinking China I'm thinking Barcelona and when he does get into that position you feel like he's not coming under huge pressure and for Lando's wins Monaco was sensational from from Lando I think that's probably an absolute standout obviously Austria he had to deal with the wheel to wheel of Piastri as well but in a lot of them it's such tiny margins and it could go his way it could go the other way he's obviously had Silverstone which was a at the very least a 50-50 call with the stewards is a roll of the dice on strategy in Hungary and they've both sort of landed towards Norris and I just think when you look at what goes into a race the race craft I think there I'm I'm still looking at Oscar as executing better on race day and I think the start of the race in Belgium was it came down to a little bit of commitment and race craft on the on the first lap and the safety car restart the start in Hungary on another day cost Norris certainly a win possibly a chance of a podium and and you know piastri's still up there this narrative at the end of last year that norris was the faster driver of the two do you think we need to park that now well he well he was wasn't he it was 20 20 to 4 so the the the narrative was because the facts were there over two seasons he blitzed piastri but this year whether it's lando not quite comfortable with the car still or whether it's Oscar taking his game on in a third year the stats have shifted and I'm looking now at Oscar actually being probably slightly the better over 14 races for me the interesting thing is I think over over the season it's getting closer and the mistakes that Norris was making earlier on in qualifying he's not been making them so much recently it's it's certainly much closer I'm thinking the Bahrain qualifying mistakes China qualifying mistakes you had Montreal qualifying mistakes he put in the wall in Jeddah all of those ones they're not happening so he's doing better as the season's going on so then we come to Jakesy's point can he actually find a higher ceiling than Piastri which is where he's been for the last two years or has Piastri moved his game on and I can't tell you the answer to that at the moment.

15:29This episode is sponsored by IM8. When it comes to looking after my health one of the biggest battles I have is consistency but the truth is the easier something is to build into your day, the more likely you are to stick with it. That's one of the reasons I've kept using IM8's Daily Ultimate Essentials. It's a powder drink supplement co-founded by David Beckham and built by leading doctors and researchers. IM8 combines 16 supplements to support your body across nine major organ systems, all in one drink. It feels good to know I'm doing something positive for my health every day without making it another thing to think about.

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18:37jakesy do you think this is now a mental game these last 10 races yeah absolutely that absolutely that but fundamentally i think the key point to underline everything jolene's just said there is that piastri and norris are running different specification front ends which is very very unusual it speaks to number one McLaren's advantage that they're so far ahead of the field that they can run the cards in slightly different specification but ever since Lando Norris has got that those qualifying mistakes have disappeared haven't they he's had the contact uh in Montreal but the qualifying mistakes since he got that slightly modified front end to try and give him a sort of 2024 feel behind the wheel in 2025 it's become much closer since then so it is a mental game but I don't think it's a mental game for Lando to access the best I just think that this car from 2025 has favored Oscar and he's made a leap so I think it naturally is towards Oscar's driving style and he's made a leap and now Lando has to try and claw his way back but I don't think that's a mental test that said final rounds of the world championship are always a mental test you don't get to be world champion unless you can withstand the pressure do you know how many times there's

19:54Jolyon Palmer:been less than a tenth separating them in qualifying out of 14 so far good five wow actually not that many considering we're looking at two drivers that are you know pole margins are tiny but actually only the last three have all been separated by less than a tenth and apart from that you go to the first race in melbourne where norris just pit piastri and you go to japan race three in between japan and uh silverstone there was no margins between them that were less than a tenth and that's i think due to mistakes quite a few on lando's part as i reeled off but also oscar not hooking it up and when lando does hook it up he can be clear but what we've seen in the last few races is they are narrowing in on getting the most out of their cars and i think as you say you know the mistakes are going the change of the front end was important for for lando and now we are getting this convergence where we are now seeing probably the the best of them at mclaren and that's why they're dropping the rest of the field a little bit more consistently as well so i think back to the first point was the gap could be 60 it's actually only nine points will oscar live to regret that or you know rue a bit of bad luck because what's the the football saying if you win on your bad days then that's how you stay in the championship fight and i think that's kind of feels to me like what norris has done now he puts that to the back of his mind he's got 10 races to go and if he can find that form that he's shown for the last couple of years he's kept himself in it hasn't he as the pressure builds during the second half of this season you know oscar has got mark webber in his corner been there done it grand prix winner he's also got Tom Stallard as his race engineer who is an Olympian in rowing.

21:43Lando hasn't got people who've been there done it in a sporting context. Do you think that gives Piastri an advantage?

21:51Jolyon Palmer:I think Mark Webber would be a good person to have in your corner. Just because he's been in the championship fight he's lost it on the final day and I would say Mark as an athlete his mental toughness is right up there as well and he's been through it so i think that's got to be it's got to be a help for for oscar to what extent i don't know um and i think they'll still be thinking at the moment the championship's in the back of their mind i think now there's 10 races to go and we can sort of see the finishing line it'll start to loom larger and with the tiny margins any incident will become suddenly a much bigger problem for either driver to have.

22:31Jolyon Palmer:So it's natural the pressures will go up. JP, as a driver, when you were battling for championships, you know, I'm thinking GP2 in particular, how does the pressure affect you? Do you just tighten up? It doesn't flow so well behind the wheel? Do you start overthinking it, making changes to the car that are unnecessary? I think you can tense up a little bit. In GP2, I actually handled it pretty well. and I was quite enjoying poking the Felipe Nazo was my rival at the time because I could see him that it wasn't dealing with the pressure so well so it was kind of an enjoyable experience and I was always ahead in the chase and he was the one under pressure to keep it going I found more pressure in 2016 when I was trying to keep my seat at Renault and I was right there with with K-Mag and we were neck and neck in qualifying but I would the qualifying is probably where you feel the pressure the most really qualifying and race starts because they are like their moments that define your whole race weekend if you have an oversteer in one corner you have to put them all perfectly together and a small moment will cost you could cost you a world championship at the end so that's where i think we'll see i mean that's where we'll see pressure tell i think lando's shown in the last few races he can deal with pressure pretty well the budapest race was extremely good um i think he i think he can do it but it's the qualifying and then the race starts that are that are the critical areas i think i think there's a lightness to lando that hasn't always been there um i'd think the last five races it's like he's somehow found a way of releasing the pressure and there's a lightness to him he seems to be enjoying it more maybe i think Canada was the catalyst for that but he he I don't know that I just he seems a happier person around the paddock and maybe it's a little bit more intuitive behind the wheel as a result I remember speaking to him after his win in Hungary on on this podcast and we were in the McLaren motorhome and and he he came over and I don't know he was he was just engaging with the team he was just so relaxed i don't i see lando as a guy who overthinks in the past has overthought an awful lot of things and i'm not seeing that now jake see do you understand what i'm trying to say yeah entirely i think he's a driver who has to feel comfortable with the task in front of him saw this a lot in his uh gp2 title challenge up against alex albin and george russell and that he was never comfortable with that car so he was constantly fighting a rear guard action he never got comfortable with what he had underneath him couldn't get the pretty tires to work in that championship um when he's comfortable he's absolutely rapid and if he feels i think the uh that he's got his team around him that he's in a comfortable place you've got to remember as well he's not been a title contender for very long he had a he had you know max Verstappen was never going to lose 81 points was he against anyone max Verstappen and he's not going to blow that title lead against anyone.

25:38And so that was almost a dress rehearsal. Everyone, I mean, he went in as the bookmaker's favorite to the start of the year and then got pretty much one of the, I think, at the very lower end of expectations, his first five races were right at the bottom of that. That's going to be a jolt for any elite sports person. He's got the wins. He's got the home win at Silverstone as well. he's he's he's getting more reps as being a championship contender and i think one of the key things is he knows that it's oscar who stands in the way it's not oscar or max or another it's just oscar who stands in the way so the task in the opening races might have appeared to be a three-way title battle with all of red bull behind max for stampin if you think back to say japan for example where he was able to hold off both now he knows it's the other side of the garage it's going to be him or it's going to be me and i think uh over a year as a title contender twinned with the simplicity of it's him or me is has led to a slightly more relaxed i think he's i think his

26:44Jolyon Palmer:mentality shifted though from feeling the weight of pre-season title favorite pressure to realizing oscar's super quick and he is driving at a high level and maybe maybe he's not going to win it and almost like he's letting the pressure off himself by thinking this is not Lando's to lose anymore it's a 50-50 if he can win it great but when I've spoken to him straight after the race in um in Belgium for example and a few times in Park Fermet and I'm thinking right how's he going to be because he's just lost from pole position on that day other times he's just missed out in the final throws of qualifying or something but he's always so magnanimous with it he takes it on the chin it's always like well it's another day you know there's been plenty of races to come and it's no big deal moments that we're we're in commentary thinking wow this could be deciding the championship this is huge and you speak to him after the race he's like yeah but oscar drove better today and and i'll try and get it another day and i do feel like he's sort of the weight of championship pressures he's trying to take away from him which could you know leave him in good stead in the end um but i do see i do see what you're saying tc with how how he's feeling under the pressure and I think it's a decent coping mechanism for him as proven by recent results.

27:56Now Max Verstappen returns to Zandvoort as a four-time world champion but he's 97 points adrift of Piastri having won only twice this season. He also hasn't been on the podium in the last four races his longest streak without a top three finish in six years but since Zandvoort returned to the Formula One calendar back in 2021 Max's record has been exemplary three wins and a P2 in the four races we've had. So how much is the local support going to help Max? Or is this now going to be a really difficult weekend for him?

28:33Jolyon Palmer:I mean, it's going to be a boost. It just has to be a boost. The Zanvoort crowd is one of the best in the season. He'll turn up with a spring in his step. And if he thinks that the championship's lost, which it most surely is, you know, you can turn up to some races and think, oh, what's to play for? but actually turning up for Max in Zandvoort, he'll know what's to play for because the crowd will be raucous if he puts it on pole and wins the race. He's up against it, but I do think it's probably the perfect way for Max to come back after the summer break and a tough race in Hungary just to think, yeah, I can still execute a great race and the crowd hopefully will lift him and give him that extra spur to keep pushing for it.

29:19And will the RB21 suit Zandvoort's fast twists and turns? I mean, he was quickest through the middle sector in qualifying, I remember, last year.

29:27Jolyon Palmer:I think it should be okay around there I don't I don't see it being you know one of their better you know Silverstone coups of getting on on pole position problem is when I look at the calendar now for Red Bull I'm seeing a lot of sort of bogey tracks for them coming up with Monza with Singapore and Baku which sort of played out last year as well the low speed performance isn't great on that car they love the fast stuff and Zanvo is kind of in the middle of it it's got a nice flow it's got some fast corners but it's also got some more fiddly bits but I think with with home home support for Max it's the better track for them in the next few I would expect him to be in podium contention but I don't think they'll have enough to take on the McLarens this time.

30:11Jake C where is Max's focus for the rest of this year he's now committed to 2026 with the team obviously there was the management change a couple of months ago is it all about rebuilding the team and getting it ready for 26. Do you think he'll forsake any wins in the remainder of this season if it gives them a better chance of doing better in 26 under the new rules? I think he'll want to see some improvements. I mean, that was a very chastening Hungarian Grand Prix, his previous race. That's about the lowest ebb we've seen for Red Bull in a very long time on sheer competitiveness. He'll want to see the team operating sharply.

30:51um but yeah the the the emphasis for the entire grid is shifting to 2026 so it'll be the same for red bull but they are in a rebuilding mode he's accepted that if he hadn't have accepted that he would have left the team so he knows what he signed up for um but yeah i think he's a little bit resigned to his fate for this year but wants to see green shoots of recovery to use that fun sporting cliche and what about yuki sunoda are you team yuki do you think he's fighting for his Formula One career or is he just fighting for a seat with Red Bull next year and if that doesn't happen he'll get picked up elsewhere?

31:28I think he's definitely fighting for his Formula One career I think Formula One and the paddock has accepted that that second seat comes with severe difficulties there were encouraging signs in Belgium I know it's a track he's been strong at in the past but encouraging to see that he could get that performance out of the car I don't think the previous management rated yuki tsunoda i think the current management does and i think that can only help him in the second half of the season are you confident he's locked in for these next 10 races well yeah i mean he's he's got to be because you can't keep chopping and changing and it's not doing anyone any good it wouldn't do his replacement any good so stick with him try and get him on an upward curve you've got a you've got a race engineer there as well in his first full season of performing that task see if you can see better results before the end of the year and then make the decision because they've got three good drivers on the books there that could be in that seat but he deserves a fair shake of seeing out the season at least so the management

32:32Jolyon Palmer:change has done him a lot of good at Red Bull I think that's clear to see even in in Spa the first race back and he's getting suddenly an upgraded floor just before qualifying that they wouldn't have done in the in the Horner era of Red Bull so definitely Laurent Mechies has a lot more faith and he wants to see more from Yuki and I think that's his best shot for next year as well I think if Red Bull oust him it's tough to see where he'll end up on the on the grid for for the rest of it but then you're also thinking who who then replaces him Hadjar is obviously the it's been great in a rookie season actually Liam Lawson's doing a pretty solid job now against against Isaac as well they're pretty evenly matched they're not going to put Lawson back in the red but are they after giving him just two races at the start of this year so it has to be Hadjar Hadjar needs to keep performing at a much higher level than Lawson to get there and I'm not sure that he is routinely doing that at the moment he's still looking impressive but I think they'll probably give him another year in the in the junior team and the B team at which point maybe Yuki if you can just find a few good races now does get another year new regs new reset and and Lauren Mechia's full-time in the leadership that's an interesting point about the shift in attitude by the new management in that you know Lauren Mechia's appears to want to have two competitive cars whereas Christian Horner's way of going about the business was to put everything behind Max Verstappen.

34:01How do you think Max feels about Yuki getting new parts at the same time as him and perhaps the full weight of the team not being behind Max?

34:12Jolyon Palmer:Well, he's confirmed he's staying with the team for next year. So that was the first thing that actually they needed to clear up with Laurent now at the helm. I don't know. I think because they're not in a title push, it makes a lot of sense. They're not sacrificing anything on Verstappen's car, apart from potentially extra spares. Max Verstappen isn't a driver that often needs any spares. So I think he'll be OK with it. Obviously, he will see the shift in probably more of the boss's time being spent trying to understand what's going on Yuki's car. Whereas before, I think sometimes Christian barely knew he had a second driver in the field.

34:53Jolyon Palmer:So there will be these small shifts. but Max knows that he's the star there. He will still be the star there. And if Red Bull want to win next year, they will need to get the most out of Max because if Yuki stays, he's not going to be a championship contender next year. He could be a decent support act at best for Verstappen in the new regs. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business, hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs.

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36:05Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to indeed.com slash podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business, hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy.

36:51When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed, sponsored jobs gets you quality candidates when you need them most. Because when you're hiring, you don't just want more applicants, you want the right applicants. Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. That's because it helps you reach candidates that meet your specific criteria such as skills, certifications, or location from the word go, boosting your job post in search results so you can reach the people that help your business thrive.