Max on the attack. How do McLaren fight back? – 2025 US GP Review with James Hinchcliffe

29:53James Hinchcliffe:At the end of the day, this is a race team. Drivers are employed by the race team. You work for them. At some point, you have to be able to just sit down and lay down the law a little bit. And if someone's feelings get hurt for the day, so be it. A race team's a family. Families fight all the time. You hug it out next week and everybody goes on. So, again, I respect the intent. I think they've maybe taken the approach a little bit too far, and they need to back that off a little bit. stand up for themselves as a team a little bit more with their drivers and uh and find that balance because they're close they're doing a great job they've wrapped up a constructor's championship they've got two drivers in the fight for the driver's championship they're doing a great job i'm not trying to say they're not but there is room for improvement i think in how they're handling that approach it's as if they're trying to engineer the drivers in the way that they engineer the cars they try to engineer emotion yeah which is hard that's impossible yeah human being cars are are science there's numbers there's facts and even then they sometimes can't figure it out, right?

30:50James Hinchcliffe:Human beings are very complex creatures. They're not as black and white as math and science. So it's a tough ask what they're trying to do. I think the lesson in all this is that a race team doesn't want drivers who are so close in performance, right? Ultimately, no. No, you're right. You want the best car and you want a guy that's two and a half to three tenths off the other guy and off you go. Brings home the points and lets the other guy do the winning. Picks up the wins when the other guy has an off day or has an issue and can support the Constructors' Championship with those third, fourths, and fifths.

31:24James Hinchcliffe:When you look at some of these strong teams historically, right, it is one guy that is the leader and one guy that's kind of two to three tenths off who can still qualify in the first two rows, can be in the podiums in the top fives, and collects those wins on days when your leader is off. It's your Schumacher Barrichello. It's your Hamilton Bottas. dominated championships, drivers and constructors. It gets messy, and it's hard to keep the harmony. Look, how long did Barrichello and Schumacher drive together? A long time. They were at that team for a long time. Hamilton and Valtteri were there for a long time.

32:00James Hinchcliffe:Do you know what? It was five years for both. Five years for both, and five championship-winning years. But then you look at Prost and Senna. Eventually, that fell apart. Rosberg and Hamilton. Eventually, that fell apart. So, historically speaking, if you have two number ones, it is eventually going to end poorly. What about Ferrari then? Charles Leclerc finished P3 to score his and Ferrari's first podium since Belgium six races ago, while Lewis Hamilton finished fourth. Think back to Friday, Hinch, when Leclerc had a gearbox problem in FP1 and they were nowhere in sprint qualifying. Fast forward to Sunday night, they've had a good weekend, a good recovery.

32:42Would you agree?

32:43James Hinchcliffe:Absolutely. One of the best turnarounds I think they've had all season. Interesting that even Leclerc was surprised by the amount of pace they got overnight from Friday to Saturday. He was not expecting to be, I don't think, P3 in GP qualifying. But it just shows that, look, we've seen it from Mercedes in the past. We've seen it from Red Bull in the past. Simulation doesn't always work the way you expect it to. In this case, it didn't work the way they expect it to, but to their benefit. And I thought Hamilton had a great weekend. And I thought, obviously, Leclerc did a great job to hang on to that podium.

33:15James Hinchcliffe:I like that they took a risk with strategy as well. They did something different without doing something ill-advised. Hinch, what were you thinking when the tire warmers came off at the start? Were you thinking madness or that was inspired? It inspired because, look, yes, they had a nice turnaround in form. But on race pace, we know Max was going to be quick. We were unsure of exactly where McLaren was. But it's still a McLaren. And if you look throughout the rest of the year, odds are they were going to be pretty good. I don't think their race pace was anything to write home about. And a podium was going to have to be achieved by kind of rolling the dice on strategy a little bit.

33:53James Hinchcliffe:So I think it was a very worthy attempt. I was thinking, why is Lando Norris not on the soft tire as well? I guess that's one of the knock-on effects of them not doing the sprint yesterday. They didn't have the data. They just couldn't afford to risk it because they didn't have the data. So to go with the slightly harder medium tire, I'm guessing was the thought process there. It makes sense, right? And it kind of goes back to when I was saying that you can kind of isolate a few different things from Monza, from Baku, from Singapore, from here. That shows that McLaren didn't have their, they didn't put together a complete weekend.

34:28James Hinchcliffe:Here, it is what happened in the sprint race. And not having a single lap on high-ish fuel, not getting to kind of figure out what to do with their race cars. They had to go in a little bit conservative. and that could have ultimately affected the outcome of this race. So, again, Max is doing everything right, Rebel's doing everything right, but McLaren are also not having these flawless weekends. So I think for sure they had to compromise their race, having missed out with both cars on every lap of the sprint. I can't help thinking what Lando might have achieved had he stayed in P2 at the start.

35:00I think he would have pressured Max.

35:02James Hinchcliffe:Yeah, or at least been able to get around Charles early in that race. You know, he seemed very tentative on the brakes early on. And part of that could be those were the first laps he was doing with any amount of fuel in the car over, you know, 30 kilos. Race cars are very different when they have 110 kilos of fuel in them. And so you have to kind of learn. Even look at Piastri. Piastri was under immense pressure from Russell in those first few laps. Once he kind of got into his groove, figured out what the car was doing, Russell never had another shot at that P5 for the rest of the Grand Prix.

35:33James Hinchcliffe:so I think both of them had to take a little bit of time in the early stages of that race to feel the cars out had they been able to compete in the sprint race it may it may have looked different what did you make of Hamilton this weekend I've always thought of Austin being a Hamilton racetrack right he's won here five times he's he's been imperious in the past I I'm thinking he came here thinking I've got him covered him being Charles Leclerc and he did early on in the weekend do you think he'll be walking away from here going, ah, yet again he's done me, and I'm frustrated? It's tough to know.

36:08James Hinchcliffe:It's tough to know because it was objectively a strong weekend from him, certainly. As you say, he loves this track. No, I think you still have to take the positives away. I mean, Charles did an exceptional job. He does tend to do very well in these difficult qualifying sessions where wind's a factor, temperature's a factor, changing conditions are a factor. That's kind of what helped him get pole in Hungary was that big wind direction change from Q2 to Q3. It was not too dissimilar to what happened here. And Charles was exceptional in those situations. So I think that the gap was as close as it was.

36:42James Hinchcliffe:I think that Lewis can still walk away from this one being, you know, proud of the progress that his side of the garage is making. He referred to it on Thursday. He referred to the last five, six races as test sessions. I'm not sure I believed him. I felt the garage might have been taken aback by that comment. We're here to go racing. Come on, man. We've heard it from him before, though, haven't we? When these regulations came out in 22, you know, he talked about sacrificing an entire season, taking massive setup swings where George was sort of staying the course and sort of keeping it more consistent.

37:16James Hinchcliffe:He was the one that was trying to influence future direction of the car and development by doing these crazy setup changes. whether or not that's true or it's a cover for why his teammates beating him i don't know the answer to that both are both are possible um but i mean i could see it he's he yes you're there to go racing certainly but if but if uh sacrifice of a of a few laps in a session today to try a different setup and test something benefits you three races down the road and for the remaining races in the season you know there's there's something to it he still has a lot to get used to with this team mika hacken and said in the build-up to this race it's going to take him five years to get his head around everything at ferrari i that's not positive for lewis is it i mean i've always seen lewis as a guy who that bit out there and i'm pointing to the racetrack he's not a man who needs five races let alone five years to get his head around that bit i think i think it just kind of shows everybody how intricate a Formula One team really is.

38:23James Hinchcliffe:As much as it's a car with four wheels and an engine, it does go down to culture, it goes down to process, it goes down to approach. There are so many different elements other than just driving the car quickly. And these machines are so tunable as well, right? There are so many things a driver can do to get it to their preferences and if he and charl don't necessarily agree on approach or setup or driving style it's going to be much harder to progress as a team you're going to be kind of out on your own island and it's an island you've never been to before and you don't speak the language you know so it's i get it you see a lot of drivers it's it's taken a bit of time um he does seem to be struggling more than you know the other high profile ones this year were carlos science um you had uh esteban ocan going to haas um it's it's it's not easy ask those guys it's it's not easy to make that change carlos is an interesting example isn't it that that podium back in in baku has opened the sluice gates hasn't it and now you really feel he's got his mojo and he's he's got his head around the williams way it's funny because if you ask him he'll say no no i figured it out eight races ago we've just had some bad luck he seems pretty pretty strong in his conviction that he's been there and if you look at qualifying actually he was they were i think head-to-head going into baku but but albon had so many more points because the sundays just weren't going and he said we weren't executing we weren't converting a decent qualifying into a strong result for a variety of reasons his mistakes team mistakes circumstances safety cars whatever So he'll tell you it's just, no, things are just going well.

40:07James Hinchcliffe:I haven't changed in the last eight races. It's just circumstances are going our way now, which in racing there is an element of luck. But, I mean, momentum is definitely part of it. Confidence is definitely part of it. I think Ferrari are going to go well in Mexico. They historically have. They've historically gone well. Charles said that after qualifying on Saturday, the car felt closer to where it was here last year, where, of course, they were 1-2 in the race here last year in Austin. And if they can get that same feel in Mexico early on with that extra practice session, it's not a sprint, then I think that could be the time.

40:47James Hinchcliffe:It would be great to see. I mean, one of the things he said post-race in the pen was we understand, I mean, different from qualifying, he said we understand a little bit more now of where that pace came from, but we need to really dive into it Monday and Tuesday, and if whatever they found is applicable to Mexico, not every setup change is going to work for every racetrack, but if it was the kind of thing that is applicable at other tracks, then yeah, they're going to just start off, as you say, on a much better foot and then have a few practice sessions to really tune it in and dial it in. And it would be great to see them being able to fight up front.

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43:50More to come from Austin in a moment, but I just wanted to let you know about the other official F1 podcasts you can listen to this week. Aston Martin's Chief Technical Officer Enrico Cardile is my guest on F1 Beyond the Grid. That's out on Wednesday. And the latest episode of F1 Explains is an Ask an F1 Driver special with Sauber's Gabriel Bortoletto. That's out now. Just search for F1 Beyond the Grid and F1 Explains on your podcast app.

44:21Russell now. Let's talk Mercedes. Finally. Finally, they announced their 2026 driver line-up, the worst-kept secret in Formula 1. What did you make of that? We haven't had a chance to chat about that.

44:33James Hinchcliffe:I think somebody acquiesced, right? I mean, they had a stalemate for a very long time. Was Hinch in the conversation after his test in the Haas? Is that what happened? Toto was just waiting to see. He knew the day was coming. He was waiting to see how my test went and then said, oh, yeah, no, no, no. We're not going there. George, you're in. No, you know, the rumors are that it was over promotional days, media days, commitments outside. Do you believe that? Or do you think it's about a man called Max Verstappen in 2027? I didn't believe it at first. The more I thought about it, it made more sense.

45:13James Hinchcliffe:I never thought it was about money, and I don't think it was about money. I do think term was an issue. But the way that George is performing at the moment is exceptional. There's an argument that he's, if you put Max as the top driver of the year, George is in the conversation for a second. Because he hasn't had the car that Lando and Oscar have had. But he hasn't made a lot of mistakes. He's pulled a couple wins out when maybe they weren't expecting it. Either way, he's doing a phenomenal job. So if you fast forward to the end of 26, regardless, let's say Mercedes has a competitive car, unless you see a massive improvement, and Red Bull has a dog, unless you see a massive improvement from Kimi Antonelli from year one to year two, if Max Verstappen says, I'm leaving Red Bull, and Mercedes has the car to beat, are you going to replace George with Max?

46:07James Hinchcliffe:Would you not replace Kimi? George is still only 27 years old. I know people talk about Kimi being the future of the future. I get that. Look at Hamilton. Look at Alonso. You could get another good 12 years out of George. And that comes back to what we were talking about earlier at McLaren, about having two number ones. I mean, Max Verstappen and George Russell. Now, that's mouthwatering for us, but it might not be a long-term solution for them. But what's interesting is Mercedes seems to have the same mindset as McLaren in the sense of they want the two best drivers, right? that's what they had with Rosberg and Hamilton that relationship was contentious almost from day one once bitten twice shy they wouldn't have brought George in when Lewis was still there if that was the thought right they had a lot of faith in George they believed that George could fight for wins when George sat in for Valtteri that one or no for Lewis sorry he nearly won the race right his first time in the Merc and so I don't think they went in necessarily thinking that he was going to play second fiddle to Lewis Hamilton.

47:09James Hinchcliffe:And sure enough, two of the three years together, he did beat him in the championship. So I don't think so. So I just, the more I thought about it, the more I thought, it really seems nuts to not be able to offer George an honest multi-year contract, not contingent on anything, not contingent on Max and whatever, if that's what he wanted. And maybe he didn't want that. Maybe he wanted the option to get out if the Mercedes isn't competitive. Because George just said he would drive for free if it was a championship capable car. so it's these conversations are so intricate and they're so uh specific to that situation the more i thought about i'm like yeah you know what these guys do work very hard a 24 race schedule is grueling and maybe he just wanted more time at home so if it if that was the fight but but eventually whatever the issue was somebody had to acquiesce because we had that for a long time and now we finally have a deal i don't know which side gave in i don't know what they give in on but i think that toto's the kind of guy that's got the approach of best car two best drivers let's go win everything that's one hell of a wage bill though isn't it for stappen and russell it's outside the cost cap and they've got a lot of money so i don't think they're worried about it hinge what a wonderful chat thank you so much for coming on the show again um this is the driver of the day moment of the show um before you give us your candidate can we can we just have a look at some honorable mentions from not only the Grand Prix today but the weekend as a whole I mean Tsunoda, Behrman, Hulkenberg back in the points for the first time since Silverstone all of the above all of the above um you know it was so unfortunate what happened to Nico in the sprint after that brilliant qualifying incredible that he still hasn't made a Q3 in a GP format this season.

48:59James Hinchcliffe:Bizarre. But, yeah, Sauber had pace. I mean, he was quick in every session this weekend. So, genuine pace, both out of him and the car. So, great. Behrman to get points, especially after that botched attempt at getting by Sonoda and losing a place to Hulkenberg as a result. But home race for Haas, and he so nearly got that last point in the sprint race as well. And Sonoda, man, I mean, what a weekend. The way he navigated turn one of the sprint race was mega. To get points from 18th, nobody expected that. And, I mean, he's on a good run. I think in the last three races, he scored more points than he had in the previous 12.

49:34James Hinchcliffe:It's not enough, but it's at least trending in the right direction. So, yeah, definitely some strong drives there. We've made a couple of references there to the start of the sprint race. I don't think you've given us the racing driver's view of the accident at the start of the sprint that took out Hulkenberg, both McLarens. Alonso. Who's fault was it? Alonso as well? Nobody's. It was the fault of Herman Tilke and his designers that built this track. Got to blame someone, right? And I don't actually, when I say fault, I just mean they're responsible, but I don't blame them because that turn one is great and it has provided us so much action over the years.

50:12James Hinchcliffe:It's a racing deal. You know, when you have tight corner, wide entry, so inviting, multiple lines you can take through it. Oscar couldn't have really done anything different. He would have known Halkenberg was there with how wide they went. or could have assumed if he couldn't see him. There was no way for him to know that Alonso had dived down the inside of Hulkenberg, that they were essentially four wide at that moment. Lando, obviously, innocent victim. Hulkenberg was more defending against Alonso. Alonso had to go for an opportunity. That's what Alonso does. Everyone there was just being a racing driver.

50:44James Hinchcliffe:For anyone to have done anything different, they weren't doing their job. So I just think it was a racing deal. Okay. All right, Hinch. So who is James Hinchcliffe's driver of the day? at the u.s grand prix you're pretending it's a close battle well it's who else other than max verstappen is going through your brain right now so the only other one that's in my brain is charles because he's not driving a car as competitive as the red bull he put up a good honest fight with lando he kept lando behind him on softs which he ran for 20 something laps at the start of the race on full tanks brilliantly defended when he had to um it took lando two cracks at it after the pit stops got a podium for the first time since belgium like you said it's a good effort the problem is is max sets his own bar so high you have to compare max to max and as far as max drives go this was a pretty average one right because leclerc kept all the competition back you know that gap was up over 10 seconds i think by the time lando finally got clean air and it ended smaller than that.

51:53James Hinchcliffe:I don't know exactly how much, but I think Leno's race pace was quite good. I don't know if he had enough to pass the Red Bull. He said in the pen he did not, but maybe the strategy plays out differently if he's two seconds behind Max for that opening stint rather than 10. So, Charles, fine. Max, obviously, is the driver of the day. Can we give honorable mention to Charles? Yeah, yeah. All right, we'll go with that. And a very strong case you put there as well. Put some thought into it. Do you know what? The thing about Max that I found so impressive is the metronomic consistency, right? When did he last make a mistake, an obvious mistake?

52:26I can't remember a moment.

52:29James Hinchcliffe:I can't remember one that wasn't... I can remember some misjudgments, but not just an honest driving error. You know, like Mexico last year with Lando. That was a misjudgment. George this year at Barcelona that was a misjudgment, right? But just a good old-fashioned driver error unforced driver error it's rare And the way Red Bull improved their performance after the sprint he came out after the sprint and said thank God it was only 19 laps because I wasn't happy with the tyre wear Okay, how much pressure was he under today? Not much but he was very happy after the race with the balance of the car they'd obviously improved it You know how Ferrari seem to not understand that car at all, the Ferrari?

53:19Red Bull really give you the impression they know how to make this car hum now. And that is ominous for the remaining five events.

53:28James Hinchcliffe:I still think when the Red Bull is in its peak window and when the McLaren is in its peak window, that the McLaren is still a slightly faster car in totality. Isn't that track dependent? That's what I'm saying. In totality, if you average everything out over the season, or let's call it over the next five races, I still think there's an edge to the McLaren. Over one lap or a race distance? Yes. Well, both. Potentially. In totality, if everything... Because, I mean, Lando's best sectors in certainly sprint qualifying would have been enough to be on pole. He didn't put them together. Max did. This is the difference.

54:04Up to Monza, the Red Bull setup window was so narrow,

54:09James Hinchcliffe:it was really tough to nail it. When they nailed it, they could do things like Suzuka, like Imola. They could have these good days. Now that they've made the window bigger, made it easier for Max to get the car into the window where he can do Max things, this is where it's dangerous. Because Max, with 90 % of the car of any other driver, has a good shot at beating them. Because he'll get 100 % of that 90 % every time. Where others, they're just human. Max isn't, he's not acting like a human at the minute. it drivers make mistakes they're they are infallible or so they're fallible creatures but max is just uh his percentage of unforced errors is minute in comparison how long do you think max can maintain this level of performance it's a great question how long is that window when you're absolutely at your peak it's a very good question because i think for a long time a lot of drivers would have said you know whether they would say it publicly or not they'd go to bed at night and stare up at the ceiling and think fernando alonso is probably a little bit better than me overall as a racing driver i think for a long time a lot of drivers wouldn't be lying to themselves if they said that at night i think there's still days where you see that fernando alonso i don't think it's as frequent but he did it for a very long time i know it's been over a decade since he's won a grand prix which is baffling but even in that you know that decade in the interim when he was in inferior equipment you could still see these drives that were verstappen-esque i think he's a little more mistake prone i don't think he's ever been as mistake free as max is showing now max has just leveled up on even some of the best that have ever done it but um he could if he wanted to i think keep this level up for quite a while Go on, put a number on it, Hinch.

56:05James Hinchcliffe:Let me put it to you this way. I think that Max will retire from F1 before he starts the downhill side of his piece. Because he's so self-aware, he'll know that it's coming. No, I think he'll just be over and want to do something else. I think Max is going to leave before there's an argument that he's lost his edge and go do something else. I don't think he wants to be here until he's 40. Hinch, I feel we could talk all day. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a really good debrief. What happens for you between now and Mexico? When do you head south? Tuesday. We'll be on the charter with the F1 gang.

56:42James Hinchcliffe:So we'll have a day off in Austin, go to Mexico, day off in Mexico, and then get to work. Brilliant. Well, look, thanks for your time. Great to have you on the show. Great to be here. Thank you.

56:56well what a weekend of racing here at the circuit of the americas and for more reaction and analysis from austin go to f1.com the official f1 app and at f1 on social media you can also watch the highlights on the f1 youtube channel and we've got plenty more of these weekends to look forward to because formula one has announced an extension of the united states grand prix which will see it remain on the calendar until at least the end of the 2034 season. And before I go, we've also had the very exciting news that F1 has agreed a five-year partnership with Apple to become the sport's exclusive US broadcast partner from 2026.

57:38It means that Apple TV will host every session at every Grand Prix, select races and all practice sessions throughout the season will be available to watch for free in the Apple TV app. And Apple TV subscribers in the US will be able to watch F1 TV Premium as well at no extra cost. So lots to look forward to for F1 fans in the USA, including the release of F1 The Movie on Apple TV in December. It's a good time to get Apple TV. Well, that's it from me. Thank you very much for listening. And we will be back on Thursday with our preview of the Mexico City Grand Prix. F1 Nation is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios.

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