McLaren's 'gift' for Max sets up final showdown – 2025 Qatar GP Review with Jolyon Palmer + Paul Aron

24:20Jolyon Palmer:I thought they'd turned a corner. I thought this was the big thing that Laurent Mechies tried to sort out when he came in, was them turning up with a car that could hit the ground and be a bit better. They've struggled in the past. It was exactly the same story last year. Max was eighth in the sprint. The car was nowhere. It's bouncing. It's not good. And he took pole and won the Grand Prix. But that just felt like it was the norm. This year, there was a period where he won the sprint in Belgium. so he showed that they can get it done quite quickly but the last few they've just arrived with the car not in a good window and he's very sensitive to to the bouncing that he has inconsistencies that didn't really seem to affect yuki he had a really good sprint but it just wasn't well suited for max and then they managed to sort the car out he's still driving with a lot of understair you can see when he's in qualifying it's not how max wants to drive the car i think He's still not particularly happy with it, but he's driving around it well, did a great job to out-qualify George anyway, but it was only 100th between them.

25:22Jolyon Palmer:The whole outcome could have been different then, but managed to get third. And as I said, the race didn't need to be amazing for him. The strategy landed on his lap. Is that another thing about Max, is his adaptability? He said after the race today that, you know, he still had that understeer from qualifying in the race, yet he wouldn't have known from his lap times. I mean it's sort of the same story here to be honest in Alpine if you look at our weekend it was pretty similar the sprint qualifying was horrible and then we went to real the actual qualifying on Saturday and Pierre was in Q3 and there was a possibility to do a very good result also in Q3 it was just they didn't have any new tires left because they never expected to be there because the day before in sprint qualifying they were lost so it was a bit the same story that I think there's just some cars that have a much bigger window than others but maybe the ultimate performance is not as good so it seems like the McLarens you drop them on the ground and they are super quick straight away but it seems like they're not making much improvement throughout the weekend so maybe they have a more sort of the performance curve is a bit more linear whereas the Red Bull car and I would also say the Alpine car seem a bit more like a pyramid if you get it right and you're at the peak of it it's super quick but it drops off either side very quickly and if you don't get it right, which is normally what happens when you throw a car on the ground and you have that sort of very peaky car performance, it is difficult in the beginning.

26:43And probably that's why the sprint weekends are hard for Red Bull. And the more time they get, the more they're able to hone that balance. And this we have also heard from everyone, that one of Max's biggest strengths is just how detailed and how good he is with his feedback. And of course, that helps the team massively as well to set up the car. and it's difficult to say how much of it is actually Max's work with the team and how much of it is just the car being difficult to put in a good window. Let's discuss the next week of these three drivers lives, all right? So Lando Norris leads the World Championship with 408.

27:2012 points back is Max Verstappen, 16 points back is Oscar Piastri. What does this week look like for these guys in terms of Will they struggle to sleep? How difficult is it to zone away from Formula One? How important is it to forget about Formula One? Just, JP, both of you, I'd love your thoughts on how they will each deal with the build-up to Abu Dhabi.

27:44Jolyon Palmer:I think it's the hardest on Lando by far. When the chequer flag was flown in Vegas, he had a 42-point advantage on Max, 30 on Oscar. And suddenly it changed. and it's changed again here to be 12 points so after vegas i mean he must have written max out of the out of the title fight really max won the race but it was just too too little too late and when you think you've had one hand on the on the trophy you think all i have to do is basically finish the race turn up and finish and it's mine and suddenly it's changed and you now need to actually go and perform it becomes so much harder when it's when it's they've been etching his name in it and then they scrub it out and say oh this could be anyone's now that plays on your mind a lot i think so he's gonna have to regroup the the mental pressures are all on lando oscar's got absolutely nothing to lose he's gonna go and try and thrive on this form again i think he'll sleep okay he'll be a bit annoyed now but he can turn up and just start swinging and that's all max ever does is turn up and start swinging so it's it's lando that's got a reset and he doesn't need to do anything special in Abu Dhabi but sometimes doing ordinary things under big pressure is is tricky I agree with Julian I mean of course leaving from this weekend Max is the guy with all the candy he's very happy I think Oscar is in the middle ground you know he's happy he's got his form back and Lando is the kid with no candy he's very sad and ultimately I think the best thing for Lando is to almost like have a kind of memory reset and not remember where he is and he would just look at the points and understand he's leading the championship and you know forget about the rest of the season basically but he's human you can't you can't do that and you can't do that but that's always i know from a racing driver's point of view that's sometimes what you need to do because the fact is he's leading the championship still and he's still got a very decent points lead and you know if if for example he was a few races ago he wasn't leading it and he took the lead of the championship this weekend and he had that points lead he would be super happy but he's taking the context into account and he's had two weekends that haven't played out that we wanted and he's obviously not feeling happy and that's the biggest challenge he has he needs to try and reset that as much as possible because the problem is when someone smells blood in Formula One your life gets much more difficult and you know in Abu Dhabi Max and Oscar know that Lando will just try to bring it home.

30:12And very often when you kind of take a step back and you start trying to bring things home, you start to take less risks, other people take more risks. And it's going to end up Max putting him in a position in the race where either Lando backs out or they crash. And Lando will back out. And Oscar will do the same. And this can be an effect that just goes on and on and on. And I've had this before. I remember in Formula 3 I had this where I just had to secure second place in the championship. I was starting second. And as long as I finished in front of all the other guys who I was fighting with for that second place, I would have stayed second.

30:48And I tried to play it safe in turn one. And one guy just dived down the inside and pushed me off. So I lost positions there. Tried to play it safe in turn two. Another guy sent it, lost positions there. And that's what happens. When you leave room, when you play it safe, other people take advantage of it. Yeah, but the moral of that story is to push.

31:06Jolyon Palmer:Yeah, so here's my analogy. I know you guys are big into your paddle. so it's like a match point it's like okay big into your big into your tennis big into your paddle net sports match point norris but when you're there you just hope that the other guy's going to hit it in the net make it easy for me so you just keep tapping it back and hope that they're going to end up putting it out putting it in in the net and you just win and it's going to take still perfection from piastri or verstappen to win it but they're not hitting it in the net they just keep getting it back in making lando play and then eventually he's making more little mistakes that keep the ball rolling on and when that happens it becomes it just becomes harder you think i could have won this before i could have won it now he's still the big favorite but they are making it hard for him honestly just to top it off the best thing langdor can do at the moment is not care about it if he left good luck with that the best he could do is leave the paddock tonight not think about formula one for three four days delete his social media have nothing to do with Formula One, hang out with his family.

32:09And he's raced the whole year. He knows the car. He'll do the preparation he needs. And that's it. You know, three, four days, not thinking about it, rock up and just do his job. That's the best thing he could do. But I've been in that position and I'm pretty sure he's going to be thinking about this every day. And the problem is, if you do think about it every day, by the time you get to the track, you're going to be tired already.

32:28Jolyon Palmer:I still think the ball's in his court. All he has to do is finish on the podium, regardless of anyone else. And it's there. The other big question is, if Max is winning and Lando's fifth, which is a bad result in normal circumstances, if Oscar's ahead, would Oscar now actually help him beat Max in the championship? That's another question. Ooh. I think he would. I think the team would ask him to, and I think he would. I think the same. I think whichever way it would go, if the drivers need to swap position for one of them to win it, the team would ask them to do it. So that helps him as well. There's that knowledge that if Oscar is winning, he has to be in the top five.

33:05Jolyon Palmer:If Max is winning, he has to be in the top four or maybe the top five if Oscar's going to be friendly. Unknown, but possible.

33:16If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits. And history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders and outsiders who change the game through bold ideas, nerve, and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History Of is all about. Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history, from revolutionary people and world-changing inventions, to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition, and stories about what happens when people go all in, give Short History Of a listen.

34:01Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts.

34:14If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits. And history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders and outsiders who change the game through bold ideas, nerve and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History Of is all about. Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history, from revolutionary people and world-changing inventions to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition and stories about what happens when people go all in, give Short History Of a listen.

35:00Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts.

35:17There's more to come from Qatar in a moment, but I wanted to let you know about the other official F1 podcast you can listen to this week. Esteban Ocon and his race engineer Laura Muller join me on F1 Beyond the Grid. That's out on Wednesday and you can watch our chat on the official F1 YouTube channel. And this week's F1 Explains is all about Ford's return to Formula One with Red Bull Racing in 2026. Just search for F1 Beyond the Grid and F1 Explains on your podcast app. podium in Qatar what the hell

35:51Jolyon Palmer:I think this is this is just happiness not emotional who would have thought

36:03now amid all the drama in the championship fight Carlos Sainz climbed from p7 to p3 to score his second podium for Williams in his first season with the team and I don't understand what what went on at Williams they came here expecting it to be the hardest weekend of the year and yet from FP1 Sainz in particular has been on it so they they don't like traditionally uh circuits with

36:33Jolyon Palmer:long corners is why Barcelona was really bad for them uh a few other circuits Hungary wasn't good hungry and that's exactly what you've got here is on paper a horror show of a circuit for them so they tried an experimental setup i don't know exactly what that is but that's what they've been been talking about all weekend and carlos has been flying alex alvin's been doing all right but carlos is thriving at the moment and i just love the way when when he ends up somewhere near the front it's like he's not in a williams anymore it's like it's just a blue car but it could be a Mercedes or it could be a you know Ferrari on a better weekend because he just feels like a front runner when he's suddenly up there it's not like he's getting his elbows out having to defend he's just putting in the laps and winding up on the podium and when you know Lando was a couple of places behind him I think initially I certainly I think a lot of other people thought well Lando's just going to get through Antonelli and Sainz pretty quickly and yet yeah Sainz didn't think that they did he absolutely didn't but and maybe that's that that is exactly your point isn't it Well, so he said at this pace he's not coming through because he knew he had saved a bit of tyres left and just thought, if we hammer it, then he's on a hard tyre as well.

37:43Jolyon Palmer:He's not going to have a big advantage on us. And I like that about Carlos. I think he's showing all his talent at the moment. I love that Williams took a punt on a, well, not really a punt, is it, but they forked out on a race-winning driver. So a midfield team have got a really great driver line-up and it rewards them in these sort of moments. He's a thinking driver that can work things out on the fly and just delivers the great results. Do you think this was a better podium for Sainz than Baku? It's a bit difficult to judge that. But I mean, of course, Baku, the quality result was a bit lucky for him in a way because of the conditions.

38:18But here I would say it was fully fair and hard fought, even though in Baku also the race was fairly fought by him. But I think James Wows has publicly said it as well, that Carlos is very, very good when he's in a happy place with the team he's in, with the environment he's in, and with the car he's in. And of course, when you go into a new team, a new car, a new environment, that takes time. And I think sometimes people don't understand or they don't appreciate enough how valuable it is to be in a team for a long time, have a say in the car development, know all the engineers and just know the environment like Johan.

38:59And, you know, for Carlos to come in, it was always going to be difficult in the beginning of the year with Albon being in that team for so long, knowing everyone, and obviously the team is listening to him. So it takes time before they really start to trust you, before you really get to have the car where you want to have it. And it seems like at the end of this season, Carlos is starting to be happy with that Williams, he's happy with the environment he's in, and clearly he's starting to show very, very good performances. Williams is an extraordinary story, isn't it? 65 % of their workforce is new or has been there less than three years.

39:34So that takes time to gel. How did you get that stat? It's a great stat, isn't it? But that takes time, doesn't it?

39:41Jolyon Palmer:Formula One teams, change takes time anyway, any sort of change, let alone a massive workforce turnover. So you have to say, James Vowles is doing a really good job, putting the staff in place, getting the right drivers, all building towards next year's regulations as well. They didn't think that they were going to be particularly competitive this season. I mean, Carlos, if you told him he'd have more podiums than Lewis this year, he never would believe you at the start of the season. But he signed for next year. That's the really encouraging thing for Williams. And the trajectory, as you say, the staff turnover that they've got.

40:16It's not as much turnover, it's just gross.

40:18Jolyon Palmer:Exactly, the growth. And it's putting the right people in the right places as well. It's super impressive. It's back to the signing of Carlos as well. He was a Ferrari driver last year. He was winning races for Ferrari. Obviously, he was dropped by them. But James Valls tried so hard to get him on board. Can we just segue from Carlos into talking about Ferrari? Because Ferrari have been a mystery these last two races, all right? this has been a difficult car all year but that car has been particularly bad these last two races how much are they missing the technical expertise of someone like carlos saints i don't think i don't i don't think i've put it on on carlos you know now that he's gone the ship is veering so to drop but he did say at the end of last year if this car wins the world championship in 2025 remember how strong they were at the end of last year he said he wants he would quietly take a bit of credit for that because he thought he was responsible for some of the technical direction that the team had gained he's trying to steer away from that comment now does he want the credit anymore yeah but that's why i mean one driver we're 12 months on from carlos leaving the team one driver i don't it's very difficult for them to steer so so many directions and the cars are so complex they've also got lewis coming in who's not exactly short of experience and a few ideas himself so i don't feel like they're missing car loss particularly i mean well what have they been missing these last two races because i went trackside and that car looked horrendous this weekend aero efficiency this this circuit is all about aero efficiency is it's relatively high downforce you've got one long straight loads of fast corners every time we pan to a ferrari particularly leclerc at any moment over low fuel he looks like he's about to spin he's been in the gravel every other session and the car's just loose it seems like it's missing downforce they could add downforce but then they'd lose the efficiency so they've not been able to find the window that's the surprising thing with taking lewis out of park ferme for the sprint making more changes i'm amazed that they've not been able to at some point find a sensible window for that car i mean from from the outside looking at the onwards and everything it just looks like the car is very inconsistent.

42:36But I think that's a very difficult question to answer because if we take a comparison, remember that dominant year that Red Bull had with this generation, you know, look where we are now. Now it's McLaren dominating. And in the end, it's the same generation of cars. And it's not a big, you know, change between the years of how much the teams are able to develop these cars. So I think it's just, you know, every year people are developing the car, trying to make it better. Every year people bring upgrades. And what we often see is that the upgrades don't make the cars quicker because ultimately these upgrades these developments they need to blend in and they need to kind of glue properly together with the car and and sometimes when that doesn't happen maybe ultimately you're making the car quicker because you're adding load to it but if you're also making more inconsistent it can result in a overall a slower package with the driver and the car so you know that could be the case also in ferrari that it's not a slow car maybe all the upgrades and everything they've kind of bolted onto that car are not finessing together and and because of that it's just a very difficult package to uh deliver with i mean i know uh the le sale track has you know as you say jp lots of long fast corners but let's not forget that charles was on the podium in this car at the spanish grand prix right and barcelona is is an aero track.

43:54Do you remember in qualifying? But they weren't that competitive there. But do you remember in qualifying at Silverstone? Yeah, they were good at Silverstone. So I just want to know how they've... I mean, Paul, the points you make are very valid, but why here? Why have they struggled so much?

44:11Jolyon Palmer:It's obviously a one-off on top of it not being their absolute strength. They've been better in recent races. They don't know, Tom. Why do you think I'm going to be able to tell you this right now? Well, Carlos Tice thinks you're one of the best IOS here so are we looking at a future steward by the way yeah that's for racing incidents not for how Ferrari should set up their car I mean it's the end of a very frustrating year for Ferrari they can no longer finish second in the constructors championship which you know was even at mid-season when we knew how competitive McLaren were that was still the goal that is no longer on the cards I mean Fred Vasseur said on Friday in the press conference he said we turned the tap off on this car talking about aero development in the wind tunnel back in april that better be good next year i mean that's the point isn't it if you do that i mean we better be good next year yeah because alfian did the same yes because we did it at the beginning of the year but the expectation for ferrari coming into this year paul was so much greater you know having having finished just 14 points behind mclaren at the end of last year just look at the season they've had I mean you can feel the pressure you can see the disconsolate Lewis Hamilton asked after what was it after the sprint I think you know looking ahead how you see the rest of the weekend the weather's going to be nice which is only obvious so that was sprint qualifying and what was he 18th oh nothing to look forward to that's all horrendous he's been on the nightmare the last couple of weekends was told to concentrate on the racing by John Elkin and then that sprint qualifying I'm looking forward to seeing what the weather's the weather's nice and then it does the sprint, take the car out of part firm, start from the end of the pit lane.

45:55Jolyon Palmer:And his feedback was, the car's worse from that? He's just in an absolute doom spiral, isn't he? Obviously the car was a pig this weekend. But to be fair, Charles said the same thing. Yeah, no, I believe him. I believe him. But you thought, can it get worse after the sprint qualifying was more my point. He was already completely depressed about the situation and then it did get worse. So they need a reset and Lewis needs a major, he needs a winter completely. It's difficult to see how he's going to turn up next week with a spring in his step. What kind of a winter have we got? There are 36 days between the Sunday of Abu Dhabi and when the cars hit the track in Barcelona for pre-season testing.

46:35That is as short a winter as I can remember. I don't need any winter at all. I can keep going right now. Give me a chance and I'm ready to drive. What about other stories from the weekend then? Quick word on the Mercedes. Antonelli and Russell finishing fifth and sixth.

46:52Jolyon Palmer:Fine. Antonelli obviously made the mistake right at the end, which cost him a couple of points. Russell had a mistake at the start. We never really saw it, I don't think, how he dropped down to seventh. But from there, he was doomed, stuck in traffic. And that was a shame because I thought he was pretty good this weekend until then. Good points for Mercedes overall, but not that whelming. They're looking good for P2 in the World Championship. which was their stated aim, and has been for a while, from Toto Wolff, the team principal. Look, quick word on Aston Martin. Alonso, P7 in both the sprint and the Grand Prix, showing how wily he is, how determined he still is.

47:32Jolyon Palmer:But you know what? He went off in the sprint at the final turn through the gravel, and he had a spin in the Grand Prix. So considering he did really well, didn't he? But it was rare to see him make two unforced errors in a race. but what does that tell you what a handful the aston is or how hard he was pushing also we're overlooking how brutal and physical this race was so i think the concentration that was required when you see small mistakes from people it's it's so tough i think it's the physically the hardest one and the mandated stint lengths of 25 laps does that make it harder for the drivers yeah i don't think there was much management and you could see it from everyone i mean anyone who was under the pressure was pushing uh Kimi was pushing and he made some mistakes Oscar and Lando made mistakes I didn't see Max making a mistake but that's Max anyway we saw Fernando making mistakes I saw both of our drivers making mistakes I think it's just a track where the car is so sensitive to wind the car is you know so aerodependent that any little change in wind or conditions can make a big change on the car and also any little change in terms of following another car can make a big difference on your aero performance plus the fact that you're pushing flat out you're not leaving much margin and the moment there is this little slight change which changes the aero performance you know it's very easy to make a mistake and most of the mistakes were made in high speed corners where that aero performance is the most important so yeah and to be fair Jolien had a fair point I think this is at least for your neck by far the most physical race there is I mean And last year when I raced in Formula 2, I didn't feel my neck in any track ever.

49:10And when I finished the weekend here, for the first time, I thought my neck's a bit tired. So it was the only track in F2 where I felt that my neck was a little bit tired. So for sure, for the Formula 1 guys who are carrying, you know, five times the speed that we used to carry in Formula 2, it must be very difficult on their neck. And it's warm and, yeah. It's an amazing track, isn't it? Or is it only one corner under 100 kph?

49:32Jolyon Palmer:Everything else is underneath fourth gear. third gear at turn six everything else is sort of medium to high speed and even that's not exactly low speed and the drivers love it i love it it's my favorite track yeah i hold left to a track record here i won here last year best track i've ever driven look before we leave this topic of aston martin jp i did just quickly want your thoughts on adrian newey becoming the team principal there were you surprised by that yeah very yeah uh i didn't i mean it's such a great technical brain but we're seeing more sort of engineers moving into team principal roles.

50:07Jolyon Palmer:It's kind of the fashion at the moment, isn't it, for a lot of the teams. I didn't think Adrian would do that. I don't know if we're going to see more from the management of Aston Martin, if there's going to be things changing, because I can't imagine him spending all his time, or spending too much of his time on media duties, on extracurricular, dealing with sponsors, dealing with commercial partners and all that. He is a racer through and through. It smacks of a chief exec coming in alongside him, doesn't it? Exactly, that's what I think. And that's been the form for McLaren, doing that with Stella and Zac Brown.

50:40Jolyon Palmer:It feels like that's going to be the move for Aston Martin. Christian Horner? Rumoured. If they brought him in with Honda engines, Christian Horner, Adrian Newey, Max Verstappen had a contract at the end of next year, you start to think there could be a power play. Wasn't that rumour shut down by Mr. Straw himself in the factory? I don't know. He did say that in the factory. If you're wondering when he addressed the staff, we are not talking to Christian Horner. But that's not to say it won't happen in the future. This is Formula One. Anything can happen, right? And if not him, I think they're looking for someone like him to come in alongside Adrian.

51:23Jolyon Palmer:I just cannot believe that it's going to be Adrian as team principal and no one in the sort of like, he'll look after the technical side. I'm sure he's chuffed to have a lot of autonomy in terms of decision-making on the key technical personnel. It feels to me like the big thing for him is to have the key decision-making and not have to deal with a sort of team principle and inverted commas ahead of him. But there's got to be someone to come in at least alongside him to deal with the other parts. And JP, just to be clear, if you don't take the stewarding role that Carlos Sainz wants you to take...

51:53Are you going to link me to it?

51:54Jolyon Palmer:Yeah, come on. What a weekend for me. Could be a steward, could be a CEO of Aston Martin, is it? All right, guys, what a wonderful chat. Thank you both very much for your time. Let's end this with, I want a driver of the day from both of you. JP, who is it? Carlos Sainz. Why? Got a Williams to a podium. Consummate, dealt with a little bit of damage at the end as well. I don't think we mentioned. That's too good. I mean, I could name three guys for three different reasons. Name three, but give us a winner. First one I would name is Oscar because he didn't do anything wrong, did he? He did a good race.

52:30He was the quickest car on track. He's done a perfect weekend. Just bad strategy goal. And that's what won this race. I could give it to Max. I mean, in the end, he got gifted to win by the McLarens, but he still won the race. And overtook Lando into turn one, important. Did everything he needed to do. He's still the classic Max that, as Zac Brown said, is from a horror movie, the main character that never disappears, always comes back. And the third one would be a colour science because I think no one expected that. And the winner is? That would be my top three. I mean, honestly, I could name the winner by just who I like the most.

53:05Who do you like the most? Actually, now I dug myself a bigger hole here. You made it harder. I mean, from a driver's perspective, I would put Oscar. Okay, your mate Oscar.

53:16Jolyon Palmer:If I thought I was allowed nominations, I would have gone for the same. Would you have gone for the same three? They were the standouts. Yeah, they were all definitely the standouts. it for me the standout driver of the race and the weekend was oscar piastri where given where he's been at the last few races to see him come back and drive with such i mean just look at the way he overtook kimmy antonelli versus how hard it was for lando norris in the same car in this i thought that just summed up everything about oscar's weekend he's been perfect so oscar for me oscar for paul and carlos for jp carlos but oscar can ride the wave can't he into Abu Dhabi.

53:55Jolyon Palmer:Just to be clear, I mean, let's... I like the others too. Let's cross that comment about how we choose my favourite one. I mean, I don't have a favourite for one drive. Guys, thank you both very much for your time. Great to have you on the show. Thank you. Cheers, TT.

54:15Now, for more reaction and analysis from all the weekend's action here in Qatar, go to F1.com, the official F1 app or at F1 on social media. You can also watch the race highlights on the F1 YouTube channel. Now, next up, it's that mouth-watering title showdown in Abu Dhabi, where we'll crown the 2025 FIA Formula One World Champion. We'll be back on Thursday to preview that race. But for now, thank you very much for listening. F1 Nation is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios.

55:07If there's one thing Formula One proves, it's that progress comes from people who are willing to push the limits. And history is full of them. The inventors, engineers, leaders and outsiders who changed the game through bold ideas, nerve, and moments of brilliance. That's what the podcast Short History Of is all about. Each vividly immersive episode delves into one remarkable subject from world history, from revolutionary people and world-changing inventions, to defining events that still shape our lives today. So if you love innovation, ambition, and stories about what happens when people go all in, Give Short History Of a listen.

55:52Search for Short History Of wherever you get your podcasts.

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