Oscar’s turnaround, Lando’s title blow + Hadjar’s ‘masterpiece’ podium – 2025 Dutch GP Review

27:11I think it's one of the restarts where he was a little bit late on the throttle but he again he managed to defend. Wow it's I think it's super impressive and at the time when he got the third place you could think as well that the pressure would increase, he had Russell I think on his heels and no, he just brought it home so yeah, very impressed. As you say very unemotional, in the press conference afterwards I thought we might I wasn't expecting tears but I was expecting some kind of emotion but he was just very controlled this is what I always dreamed of, I'm now delivering it it was it was as if there was an inevitability about it in his mind and this is the sort of first step next it's going to be winning races and then after that it's going to be winning championships and to that end martin what do you do with a driver like isaac hadjar now i mean helmet marco has has a notorious reputation of putting too much pressure on these guys promoting them too soon to that second seat at Red Bull alongside Max Verstappen.

28:25What would you do with Isaac next year? So it's a very good question. The first point is, what is this podium going to do to Isaac? Is it going to make him realize he's in Formula One because he's going to get so much more attention? And is it going to make him an even better driver because it's going to give him that confidence that he can achieve podiums and maybe more? or is it going to actually make him realize he's in Formula 1 and there's a lot of expectation on him? So that's always a key. The first podium, the first victory can be very beneficial or actually a little bit detrimental to the psyche of a driver.

28:58So it's going to be interesting to see that. And what is your prediction, knowing his character a little bit? Based on what I said, it should do nothing. It should be like this is getting even more fun. I want more of that champagne. I want more of these trophies. But let's see. I think it shouldn't faze him, but we never know. The other question is, what's next? Red Bull is in a tricky situation. If Max leaves, whether it's in a year or in two or in three, who's the next driver they're going to bet on? Obviously, they can go and get a Russell. They can go and try to get a Leclerc or a Piastri from another team.

29:35It's going to be difficult. It's going to be expensive. It's an uncertain outcome. Or should they invest in one of the drivers they've already invested in? Yuki Tsunoda, Liam Lohson, you can say they've been there, they had the chance, and they're probably not looking like the prospect, the driver that Red Bull wants to build on. So logically, it should be Hajar. It could be Lindblad, but it's still in Formula 2, it's still a bit early. So what's the best way to prepare Hajar? Is it to put him at Red Bull with Max, with the risk of Max destroying him or him getting destabilized and losing confidence because of that red bull car that's so peaky and so difficult to drive?

30:17Or is it keeping him at racing balls for another year? What would you do? The question is, what would Helmut do? Because at the end of the day, Helmut's not going to listen to my opinion. Or he might listen, but he's not going to do anything with it. I think Oscar Piastri is a good case study here because it's taken him until year three to really peak in Formula One. This is Isaac's first year, which means I think he'll still have a lot to learn in year two. He won't be ready. He won't beat Max Verstappen next year. Look at Kimi and the difficult season he's having. This race is a very good illustration of that.

30:52I think he would have benefited Kimi to do a year or two in a smaller team. Obviously, circumstances of Lewis leaving accelerated this. It's probably the same for Isaac Hadjai. For him as a driver, it would be better to do another season at Racing Bulls. But equally, I know Helmut's mentality. And Helmut's mentality is throw him in the water and see if he can swim. So I think the best for him would be to leave him here for another season. And put who alongside Max next year? Keep Yuki Tsunoda? That's a very good question. I think so. Although the question is, can Yuki progress enough? and the reality is that that car seems so picky and so difficult to drive that you could put anyone in there and you would achieve the same result.

31:40So there's a big regulation overhaul for next year. There's no more Adrian Newey. Laurent Maquette has also a background as an engineer and I'm sure he's putting some of his experience in the direction of the car development. I think to be honest if that car is a bit less peaky and a bit more I wouldn't say easy to drive because easy to drive cars are not fast but possible to drive for someone who's not an alien like Max Verstappen with his car control I mean, this turn two in the first lap I mean, if it was any other driver than Max would have been embarrassed let's face it, no one else could have put that outside move that car control he's just able, and that's the characteristic of a lot of the very good drivers I worked with.

32:27They love extremely peaky front, very, very forward balance, very, very aggressive front end, very oversteery cars, and then they can control the rear in a way that nobody else can. And Max is just another level of that. So I think the reality is if they have a car that is a bit more drivable next year, I'm sure Yuki will be a couple of tenths from Max. But do you think cars retain their inherent DNA through a regulation change? Yes, they do, because they are just a story of their development through the years, but they're also the result of what a group of engineers has learned over the years and how they've set up their tools, how they set up their simulator, how they set up all their simulation to develop a car.

33:18So, yes, it's likely to influence that car, but I think they're conscious of the problem. Let's face it, if Max was to leave Red Bull at the end of this season, the two cars they would have with whoever drives them would probably be, if the regulations were stable or if Max broke a leg today, they would probably qualify at the edge between Q3 and Q2 in the middle of the grid. so Red Bull are conscious they have a problem because they're not going to win any constructors championship with a car like that and the day Max leaves they're they're in big trouble well and the stats prove it Max Verstappen has 205 points this season Red Bull Racing 214 it's it's brutal so uh you know you can't you can't rely on on one driver or one person like that you know you can't rely on an Adrian Newe as in if Adrian is not there that the team is collapsing you can't rely on the same way on one driver because you know obviously he can leave he can you know break a leg tomorrow and and then what so in conclusion on Isaac Hadjar you believe he's the real deal and needs to be looked after by Red Bull give him another year at racing balls I think that's the reasonable decision to make and keep Yuki as a as a baseline for the new generation of cars and see whether that car is more drivable and whether he can get closer to Max.

34:54I'm not sure that that's what Helmut and Laurent will do. But also, let's not forget that Red Bull's never been shy of changing drivers in the season. So they could very well start with Yuki for four or five races and they decided to put Isaac in there. I think that would be the worst for Isaac, to be honest, because then you don't have all the winter of preparation with the new team, with the new set of engineers and etc. But hey, we've seen so many things with the guys at Red Bull that I wouldn't exclude that. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business, hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy.

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36:50This episode is sponsored by Honda. Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone. From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, it drives it. And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNA. Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today.

37:35And now that same thinking is shaping the next generation of hybrids as well. Cars like the 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Hybrid show that electrification can be both efficient and genuinely fun to drive. The 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid are engineered for fun. From the racetrack to your driveway. Learn more about the Prelude and Civic and the latest innovations at Honda.com. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business, hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs.

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39:33There's more to come from Zandvoort in a moment, but I just wanted to let you know about the other official F1 podcast you can listen to this week. My guest on F1 Beyond the Grid is Ferrari team principal Fred Vasseur. I spoke to him a little earlier in the weekend here at Zandvoort. He was absolutely fascinating. That is out on Wednesday and you can watch our chat on the F1 YouTube channel as well. And this week's F1 Explains is all about the history of Ferrari and what makes them such a unique and iconic team in Formula 1. That's out on Friday. Just search for F1 Beyond the Grid and F1 Explains on your podcast app.

40:14Antonelli's tyres are up to the working range. Oh, he hits him! Kimi Antonelli into the side of Charles Leclerc! The Mercedes and the Ferrari make contact. Antonelli knew he had one opportunity to take the place, and he spins Charles Leclerc into the barriers. We've talked about Kimi Antonelli a little bit already on the pod. The collision between Charles Leclerc and Kimi during this Grand Prix. Do you think that was another example of the growing pains that Kimi's going through? Would you apportion blame on him for that accident? I would, definitely. I think, however, that he was right to try it.

40:54He was out of the pits with Charles on cold tyres, and he had to make a move. He didn't manage to make the move in Turn 1. He was too far. Turn 3, you can take different trajectories. He tried. He overcooked a little bit because he understood. You know, you can take different trajectories in this corner, but the outside, the exit of the corner is the same. So there was no room for two cars. And I think he had he controlled the car, had he not carried that much speed, he would have avoided that crash. I think I've seen it. It was a few years ago. I think Fernando pulled a move like this in turn three.

41:26So it's doable. I think if it was just one mistake, you know, like this, you just tried and overcooked it. You know, anyone could have made this mistake. It's just the accumulation in the case of Kimi that starts to be a little bit problematic. and it just shows that there's a little bit too much pressure or he's trying a little bit too hard. And when a driver tries too hard, over drives the car, normally it results in worse lap times and in worse performance, or tries a bit too hard in a race, that results in mistakes. And I think for Kimi, the right thing to do would be to have a reset, and just say, forget all expectations.

42:03I am or I am, and it doesn't matter if I'm a few tens of Georgian qualifying or if I'm a few positions behind the race, I just need to look at myself and learn and build. But he's at Mercedes, the pressure is huge. Toto said in the press conference on Friday here at Zandvoort that he almost held his hand up and said, yes, I think we have put too much pressure on him. Go back to giving him his FP1 debut at Monza of all places last year. And of course, actually, he tried too hard. He put it in the wall at Parabolica. you say try a reset but it's very difficult to reset in that environment isn't it you can take you can tell him as much as you like that there's no pressure on you but he's in a mercedes he's putting pressure on himself where do you go from there it's awfully difficult i i completely agree with you there's no there's no magic formula they just had a summer break clearly that wasn't enough of a reset is just let go of the expectations.

43:04You know, we're talking about Isaac and the fact that he's enjoying driving the car and he's having fun. I'm not sure Kevin is having fun at the moment. And a driver needs to have fun. So if I was in Toyota's shoes... Why does a driver need to have fun? Because it comes more naturally behind the wheel? I think so. You need to, you know, first of all, let's not forget why they're here. They're here because they love driving cars fast, you know, and then the results is just the accomplishment of driving a car fast and they're competitive. But if you get to a place where you get into the car and you don't think about the enjoyment of it at all, but you just think about doing everything perfectly and making everybody happy and the pressure and etc.

43:43I don't think that helps you as a driver to show your talent. And I think if I was Toto, and I have a huge respect for Toto as a team principal and as a manager, and I think he's a very emotionally intelligent person as well. So I'm sure he's had this kind of discussion. But if I was leading that team, I would sit down with Kimi and say, you know what, let's forget about the points, the construction championship, the results and etc. From Monza onwards, just have fun in the car. Just try to just enjoy what you're doing. Forget any expectations and just get back to the roots of you're driving a Formula One car.

44:22It's the coolest car to drive in the world. It's a competitive car. Just go and have fun and get some good racing and forgo all expectations. Talking of resets, I think this segues quite nicely into Lewis Hamilton. He went into the break after a very frustrating race in Hungary. He came back and was happy after qualifying, having got into Q3. we then see a very uncharacteristic mistake at Turn 3, just a weekend to forget for Ferrari, both drivers going out of that corner. What do you make of Lewis Hamilton's plight at Ferrari at the moment? Do you think he's putting too much pressure on himself, which seems a strange thing to say for a guy who's won seven World Championships and more than 100 Grands Prix?

45:10I think he's not satisfied with his own performance and respect to Lewis for admitting this and just being open to the press and just saying, I'm not happy with the way I am, I'm not happy with the way I'm driving and I need to do better. It's difficult to change cars and teams after such a long and successful career. I think he still has the appetite for it, but is he enough, mentally flexible enough? Is his brain elastic enough, as we say in your surgery, when you have kids learning very quickly at a very young age because their brain just adapts to everything. It's a difficult one. It's just like he gave himself this challenge because he dreamt about it, and that's not exactly going to plan.

46:01And I'm sure it's more like frustration rather than pressure he's putting himself. He's just not happy with where he's at, and he's trying. And it reminds me a little bit of Daniel Ricciardo, who I've worked with at Renault and I've always had a very good relationship with. And he was really quick at Renault. He has a lot of talent. And seeing his misery at McLaren was painful. And then his return in racing bulls. And there's a point where you overthink everything. We're talking about having fun or being more natural. There's a point where you start to overthink every corner entry, every corner exit.

46:37That car, the McLaren, wasn't adapted to Daniel's driving style for some reason. And he tried so hard to change his driving style, to adapt it to the car, after trying to set up the car differently and it didn't work, that he actually lost his mojo, his driving style. And he just couldn't drive naturally. And when he came back to a car that was different again, it was the Alfa Tauri or whatever he's called at that year, he just couldn't get his driving back. Because he was overthinking everything. And I think in Lewis's case, he is still adapting to that Ferrari. He can't quite get the maximum of it as Charles is capable of doing on a regular basis.

47:18And he starts to think, what should I do differently? And we're talking about Lewis Hamilton. He's been here in F1 for like 20 years, pretty soon. And he's trying to overthink his driving style. And I think that's the beginning of that bad spiral. But equally, he has to because otherwise it doesn't exactly perform the way he wants. And I think that's where he's at. He's a little bit at loss of it. And sometimes he manages to get a ride and sometimes he doesn't. You've worked at Ferrari. You've worked for British-based teams as well. Fred Vasseur has said already this year that perhaps both him and Lewis underestimated the change of going to Ferrari for someone like him.

48:02How different is it down there in Maranello? Look, I worked there many years ago. I left myself in 2007. so I'm sure you were there during the dominant Schumacher years I was there with Michael there was you know Jean Todd was heading the team Stefano Domenicali was a sporting director Ross Braun with the technical director Mattia Binotto was there James Allison was there it was like a bit of the dream team of Formula One Nick Tombazes was my boss actually so you know there's a lot of familiar faces in the F1 paddock today it you know the pressure is is huge from the Italian press and from the Italian society in general, I don't think Lewis cares about that.

48:43I've worked with Lewis a little bit at McLaren many years ago, but I don't know him for who he is now. He's obviously very, very, he's evolved a lot. I worked with him in his first years in Formula One. I don't think he's at the stage where what the Corriere della Sera writes about him is keeping him awake at night. I think it's just more he wants this to be a success. He wants this to be the culmination of his career. It's more difficult than everybody expected. And I think the frustration is growing on his side and probably on the team side as well. But what about the processes, the language barrier?

49:24You know, Ferrari is now the only team on the grid that doesn't have a base of sorts in the UK with Sauber of course now having their technical office near Bista. Are you and I underestimating the change that he's gone through? I don't think the Italian side of it has so much to do with it. Every team has slightly different ways of working, different processes. I mean, the Italian way of working is a little bit less organised and a bit more creative, let's put it this. However, when I was there and it was a different era, You know the internal politics and the stuff like that Ross wouldn't allow this to happen in a technical team And I was one of Ross's strength he cut all the blame game and you know and just said we're a team we're working together It doesn't matter who who made a mistake or whose fault it is.

50:15Let's solve the issues What is the atmosphere there now? I have no idea But I think it's really more the cars different the process are different the methods of working are different And for Lewis it's a different beast. He was already struggling a little bit at Mercedes last year He was slower than George in most qualifying sessions. He never really adapted to this new generation of cars. I think he's going to wait for next year to see the new generation of cars and see if that suits his driving style. And I think honestly if it remains as it is now then probably the most logical thing is for both sides to say we tried, we gave it a good shot, we enjoyed working together and it's best to stop there.

50:59I don't think Louis is going to want to stay forever if he is struggling and not winning races. He wants to win with Ferrari. Either he will believe that he can win with Ferrari or he will probably go. A lot will rest on how the car comes out of the box at the beginning of next year with the new regulation cycle. Definitely. But I think Charles is getting frustrated as well. He's making the most of the car and of the team. but you know he wants he wants victories he wants he wants championships and he knows that the year are passing by and you know from what I know and you know it's all smiles and and you know we're together and we're together in in the in the outside world but he must be thinking in his head you know is this the team I want to I want to invest in he's so invest emotionally invested at Ferrari charges you know he's a he's a Ferrari kid he's grown with Ferrari he wants to be at Ferrari, he wants to win with Ferrari, but there will come a time where he will ask himself, you know, am I, you know, do I want to continue in this and potentially never win a championship or will I want to move?

52:06Marcin, this has been such a fascinating chat. I could talk to you all day. We haven't got time, I know you've got to shoot, so I just wanted to ask you about some great recovery drives. Which of these impressed you the most? Alex Albon going from P15 on the grid to P5 at the flag. Haas duo, Oli Behrman and Esteban Ocon, great recoveries as well to P6 and P10 respectively. Or Lance Stroll fighting his way through to P7. Which of those stood out for you the most? I think, you know, the Williams weekend's been a weekend of ups and downs. Sure. As the Aston Martin one. I think a lot of these kind of swings were also related to the last safety car and the circumstances of that.

52:57It's difficult, really. They're all like inside stories, and I would have to go through all the data. But certainly, you know, Albon is, I think he's a very, very talented driver. He impressed me a lot, especially since he moved to Williams. I think he has a lot of speed in him. I think again he was probably the one at Red Bull that fared the best to be honest of all the guys who went there and got kicked out. And I think Sainz also is finding a driver next to him in the garage is giving him a little bit of sweat to match. So in general I think Alex is driving extremely well and he's pulling results sometimes at a race where you don't think he will get there.

53:42And a great start today to go from P15 to P10 on lap one. I feel his stock has risen this year, his performances against Carlos. Would you agree? Yes, definitely. I think, you know, there's always been a doubt whether his teammates were up to scratch. And Carlos, let's remember, was winning races at Ferrari and challenging Charles Leclerc. So definitely his stock has risen. He's an interesting one to watch, actually. I think he's very invested in the Williams project and he believes in it. but he might get opportunities as well. I'm not quite sure what his contractual situation is. I think he's committed to Williams for a bit, but I think he's one of these young, not that young anymore, he's been around for a few years, but I think he's one of these drivers who, if you put him in the right car, in the right team, he can go and get victories and potentially fight for a championship.

54:33Martin, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been great to chat. If we can just end it what I call the traditional way, I want to know who your driver of the day is. It's got to be Hajar, isn't it? I mean, he can't fall Piastri for Oscar for the race he did. But Hajar, qualifying P4 and bringing it home in a car that had less race pace than the cars around him. It was just a masterpiece of driving for an underdog or a guy in a weaker car. Just defending and just executing to perfection. So it has to be, like, Hajar. Well, I have to agree as well. He is my driver of the day. Oscar Piastri, brilliant, but you have to give it to Isaac.

55:16Look, one final news thing. There are reports going around the paddock here in Zandvoort that you might be going to Cadillac. Well, that's news to me as well. Okay, all right. Okay. Look, Marcin, thank you so much for coming on the show. Great to chat. Thank you.

55:36For more reaction and analysis from Zandvoort, Go to Formula1.com or the official F1 app or at F1 on social media. And you could also watch the race highlights on the F1 YouTube channel. We will, of course, be back on Thursday with our preview of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza. Can you believe it's the last European race of the season? Thanks very much for listening. F1 Nation is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios.

56:20This episode is sponsored by Honda. Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone. From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, it drives it. And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNA. Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today.

57:05And now that same thinking is shaping the next generation of hybrids as well. Cars like the 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Hybrid show that electrification can be both efficient and genuinely fun to drive. The 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid are engineered for fun. From the racetrack to your driveway. Learn more about the Prelude and Civic and the latest innovations at Honda.com. Sleep Number's new collections are designed to adapt to the changing nature of your life and your sleep needs. Whether it's the personalized comfort of the new Comfort Mode mattress, the targeted pressure relief of the Comfort Next mattress, or the climate collection that actively cools or warms to help you fall asleep and stay asleep.

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